Rose learning how to handle the line between tough, stupid, and... necessary
by Alex Sonty on Jan 18, 2012 11:43 AM CST
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PrintDerrick Rose sprained his toe during last Tuesday's win in Minnesota, but has missed three of the five games since. He remains day-to-day after missing the MLK Day matinee in Memphis and the following night's game against the Suns due to a potpourri of conditions -- soreness in the big left toe, a "negative reaction" to painkilling medication, and a "sinus cold", K.C. Johnson reports.
Rose has missed just eight games in three-plus seasons. He said Monday he has an "old-school mentality where I don't want to miss any games."
Only Rose and Chris Paul have the Kobe-esque 'fight-to-win competitive edge', according to Kobe Bryant -- as combination of Rose's personality and abilities that are never questioned. Unlike Kobe and Paul, Rose doesn't have that overwhelming wealth of versatile basketball talent, but the three all lack the bodies to sustain the wear, tear, and beatings of NBA seasons. All three are forced to max out every strength in their game every night to pull out victories.
What scary for Bulls fans and NBA enthusiasts infatuated by watching Rose choreograph his way through puzzles of giants is the pending doom of the hits he sustains, the ways he pushes off his ankles at angles which threaten the human body, and the way his relatively small body strikes the hardwood floor from eight or nine feet in the air. Watching is MVP season led to whispers that a serious injury to Rose is as "inevitable" as they seemed to observers of the young Dwyane Wade and Allen Iverson.
Watching the Bulls struggle for every rare bucket without him in the two games over the last week had Rick Morrisey compiling the fears in one negative Nancy column that arouses a completely non-irrational fear:
With the way Rose attacks a game, a major injury is likely someday. It hurts just to write that. But the very thing that makes him great, his ferocity, is the very thing that will bring him down. No player in the NBA drives the lane with Rose's reckless abandon.
[...]
Teams win because their stars carry the load. A player can't go through life worried about getting injured. Rose has gotten this far by throwing caution to the wind and throwing his body at bigger players.
He's dealing with the sprained big toe now. A few weeks before, it was an elbow issue after he landed hard. Bumps, bruises and muscle strains come with the territory. He has had ankle sprains that looked gruesome in slow motion but haven't slowed him much. Maybe I underestimate his physical strength and his ability to heal.
[...]
In the end, though, the only way to protect against a bad injury is by tapping on the brakes. That's not going to happen with Rose. He's not slowing down. The last time there was a guy around here with this kind of will to win and these off-the-charts skills, we were on a first-name basis with him: Michael. Rose is driven. He's tough. He's not going to go the safer route.
[...]
That's why a lot of Bulls fans and several Bulls executives put their hands over their eyes whenever it takes awhile for Rose to get up after a collision. They know what life looks like without him. It looks like Monday looked.
Whether or not Rose plays is up to him, as whether or not he can play is more related to pain. The higher the pain, the more the body deliberately avoids the pain and pushes other body parts over the edge to compensate. If he broke a bone, there'd be less concern, as doctors and trainers have more say; but -- low-hanging fruit aside -- it's the minor sprains and major pains that make Morrissey's column relevant to how Rose and the Bulls manage the health of the gravy train.
UPDATE -- Contrary to Dr. Thibs' early assessment, the Bulls have reclassified Rose's injury to "turf toe". WebMD uses terms like "ample time", "rested", "ibuprofen", "immobilized" to treat the injury over the "two to three weeks" healing time.
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If this is true, why would you leave the decision up to Rose?
Whether or not Rose plays is up to him, as whether or not he can play is more related to pain. The higher the pain, the more the body deliberately avoids the pain and pushes other body parts over the edge to compensate.
He obviously can aggravate the injury, because he has already done so. Why is the emphasis on Rose instead on management. Shouldn’t it be their decision. We already went through a similar fiasco with Noah. The player, if he has a high pain threshold, will always choose to play through pain.
by Basketball Smurf on Jan 17, 2012 12:13 PM CST reply actions
When exams and stress tests give passing grades, the judgment is more subjective...
And it really is on the player being honest about the pain and how that’s interpreted by the staff. It’s why I said the “minor sprains and major pains” can be scarier than say Noah returning from a broken digit.
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Couldn't the argument be made
that if he plays with a minor injury, the overall risk to his health is somewhat mitigated because he won’t be flying 10 feet into the air to be knocked down? That he won’t test the stress that his angles to the bucket put on his body?
Also, when the hell is that post game going to be introduced during a game? I think that would be a less stressful way for him to get easy points.
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takes time man
im assuming this is the first summer hes actually tried to learn a post game, i doubt its ready for the nba game yet. I think its a good move to get started on it earlier (as he did), i say next year we wiill see more flashes of it (we saw some this year) and i figure it will be about a good 3 seasons before we really start to see any regular usage of it. So by the time hes in his prime, which is probably the best time for it id say.
I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!
he needs it, no reason not to start on it sooner rather than later
the more versatile he is, the better it will be.
Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.
by hedonism bot on Jan 18, 2012 4:03 PM CST up reply actions
I guess I don't know how that would work in a practical sense
Doctor: How bad is your pain?
Rose: My pain is a five [truthfully]
Doctor: Well, you passed the exams and stress test. Its up to you if can go.
Rose: Cool.
I mean he can be honest about the level of pain and still decide to play because he thinks he can take it and still re-aggravate the injury because he is overcompensating. I don’t understand how what you said changes the equation at all.
When I’m talking about the Noah fiasco, I’m referring to his foot. He obviously thought he could go. The doctors gave an approval for a certain minute limit. VDN thought he looked good. Noah felt good. End result, plantar fascitis ends up plaguing him the rest of that season. I still think the emphasis is on management and the medical staff to decide on the likelihood of re-injury and whether or not he is capable of playing.
by Basketball Smurf on Jan 18, 2012 4:45 PM CST up reply actions
I share your cynicism...
it could also be argued that Rip should never have been allowed to play in Detroit.
How many injury aggravations are acceptable before it becomes clear that the medical staff is not being conservative enough?
by Paul Warfield on Jan 18, 2012 9:14 PM CST up reply actions
If players are lying about their level of pain
or not reporting when they hurt themselves, what is the medical staff supposed to do? It’s easy when the problem shows up on an x-ray or something, but not so easy where the diagnosis is so dependent on what the player is telling you. They’re all being too macho for their own good.
it all depends on how logn the medical staff plans tokeep out rose
they can tell him “well, dont play today for pre-cautionary measures” even when he says he “feels good.” Almost all athletes try doing this and Im sure medical staffs are well aware of this problem. I would tell Rose “look, you will be active by next wed against the pacers, until then, REST UP!”
Who cares if Rose has a major injury?
John Lucas and Carlos Boozer are gonna be the second coming of Stockton and Malone.
Pat Riley is the devil.
by Poloplaya14 on Jan 18, 2012 1:04 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
im glad he is resting
but that wade/iverson anology is deadon..i hope he never gets injured pretty bad, it would suck so bad from Bulls fan point of view
"Don't Play Sports With Turf Toe:"
“Athletes diagnosed with turf toe should avoid their sport at least three weeks to allow the joint capsule to heal. Without doing so, the injury can progress, and can lead to an even longer recuperation. It is not uncommon for athletes to try to come back too soon, or to try to play through the injury. Unfortunately, this usually leads to a more chronic injury, and ultimately a longer recovery.”
From an orthopedics article on About.com.
im so confused
does he have turf toe or not, i keep hearing that it was diagnosed a sprain instead of turf toe…though i cant say i understand the major differences between the two
I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!
article on chicago tribune
site says it was changed to turf toe… turf toe is a type of sprain anyway… but i guess it is. and that rose was right the first time heh.
Look
I didn’t want to offend anyone by saying the "f" word or generalizing my statement to any particular sex by saying "gays" or lesbians" or "bi’s" so "homos" is the most "politically correct" term. I’m just trying to be more tact in a tactless blog.
by Hindut Patrol on Feb 15, 2011 2:51 PM EST
Did you read my link? Here's more:
“When a player sustains a turf toe injury, they are actually tearing the capsule that surrounds the joint at the base of the toe. Tearing this joint capsule can be extremely painful. Furthermore, tears of the joint capsule can lead to instability and even dislocation of the joint at the base of the toe. This can cause accelerated cartilage wear and arthritis of the big toe (hallux rigidus).”
I imagine it’s hard to tell whether pain at the base of the big toe is due to turf toe vs. a more ordinary sprain, but one of the signs of the former is a slow healing time. So apparently because Rose still feels intense pain, the diagnosis has now changed to turf toe.
well have to see on friday on rose's status
at this point its tough to tell. A turf toe usually results in BOTH dorsal and plantar ligaments being acutely inflammed. Cortisone shots plus antibiotics are usualyl the best way to treat this type of injury. Hell be back somewhere within 14-21 days.
forgot to add hell be back 14-21 days if the swelling hasnt gotten considerably better by friday
thankfully hes getting the best treatment a patient can get. like Kobe, he’ll be getting cortisone shots for a quite some time.
So you think there's still a chance the swelling will go down, the
pain will go away, and he’ll come back early?
yeah, there is a chance hell be ready earlier than most people are predicting (him coming back within 3-4 weeks)
If the medical staff gives good news on rose’s toe by friday that his swelling has gone down considerably, I think he can be back by the pacers showdown.
I guess we'll just wait and see.
Meanwhile, stay healthy, C.J.!
by Tim S. on Jan 18, 2012 2:23 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Ok well shut him down then
It sucks that he might miss the Miami game, but oh well.
Pat Riley is the devil.
by Poloplaya14 on Jan 18, 2012 1:50 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree. We have a shot of many of those games w/o Rose
and if we lose to MIA – whatever. We won them all last season and didn’t help us in the playoffs. A healthy Rose is much more important.
by JustAnotherFan on Jan 18, 2012 1:54 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
yeah, it could be a good training for finding ways to score on Miami without Rose
by JustAnotherFan on Jan 18, 2012 1:57 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
if he sits until then
he gets over a 2 week rest. and we definitely have a chance to go 4-1 in the remaining games, with the only real threat being the pacers. it would def suck to have him sit then… especially for him, i think. i bet he’s dying to play that game.
Look
I didn’t want to offend anyone by saying the "f" word or generalizing my statement to any particular sex by saying "gays" or lesbians" or "bi’s" so "homos" is the most "politically correct" term. I’m just trying to be more tact in a tactless blog.
by Hindut Patrol on Feb 15, 2011 2:51 PM EST
I think it would be wise to rest him as long as he needs to
that said
I don’t think Rose and the Bulls are going that way. They are going to force the issue
by JustAnotherFan on Jan 18, 2012 2:04 PM CST up reply actions
i dont think they are, otherwise, the bulls probably have the dumbest medical staff o nthe planet
being in medical school first thing i learned in anatomy esp when it comes to acute injuries like turf toe is “rest, ice, and big toe exercises.” if this injury is as severe as they say it is, hell be out for two weeks. Rose will not be able to hide any sort of pain due to the turf toe. Whenever he cuts, jumps, or even takes a one step stab, ull be able to tell the pain hes experiencing.
that will depend a lot on the medical staff influence
is easy to be fooled with a turf toe. After a few days of rest it seems it’s all good and then you force it and BAM – pain is back
by JustAnotherFan on Jan 18, 2012 2:26 PM CST up reply actions
more of it depends on the swelling and mobility of the toe
if its clsoe to its optimal state, thats good news, but that doesnt mean hell be back right away. It means if he continues the therapy, he should be back at or before the miami heat game. If the bulls want to be extra pre-cautious, they can keep him out till the game after the miami heat, but again, that depends on the state rose is on friday.
i'm just hoping that the 2 weeks might be enough
since it’s gonna be hard to convince him to ride the bench until then. but at least with rip back and cj playing so well, not to mention the weak opponents, this could be a lot scarier. i don’t want to rush him back of course, even though i obviously want to see him playing.
Look
I didn’t want to offend anyone by saying the "f" word or generalizing my statement to any particular sex by saying "gays" or lesbians" or "bi’s" so "homos" is the most "politically correct" term. I’m just trying to be more tact in a tactless blog.
by Hindut Patrol on Feb 15, 2011 2:51 PM EST
2 weeks is usually enougn now these days for players to recover from turf toe
esp in young athletes and top of the line medical staff, hell be in good hands. I had a friend who actually had a similar injury (not sure if it was exactly turf toe, but pretty bad toe sprain), he recovered within 16 days. He was moving well enough that he played bball without any problems.
yeah, so i'm thinking that if his last game was the celtics game
he could come back for mia. there’s really no reason that we need him before then if his toe is still giving him problems.
Look
I didn’t want to offend anyone by saying the "f" word or generalizing my statement to any particular sex by saying "gays" or lesbians" or "bi’s" so "homos" is the most "politically correct" term. I’m just trying to be more tact in a tactless blog.
by Hindut Patrol on Feb 15, 2011 2:51 PM EST
*toronto, i guess
lol, guess i put that game out of memory
Look
I didn’t want to offend anyone by saying the "f" word or generalizing my statement to any particular sex by saying "gays" or lesbians" or "bi’s" so "homos" is the most "politically correct" term. I’m just trying to be more tact in a tactless blog.
by Hindut Patrol on Feb 15, 2011 2:51 PM EST
Thanks for the comfort.
I would hate to see this become a long-term problem, and you are calming my worst fears.
If the recommended time of rest/healing is at least three weeks
then that means the earliest he should come back is the NJ games on Mon., Feb. 6. I think it’s really smart to give him the necessary time to heal, regardless of what the upcoming schedule looks like.
With that said, the schedule doesn’t look too bad. In the 10 games between now and then, the Bulls could realistically win 6-8 of them, with losses (in order of likelihood) to the Heat, Sixers, Pacers, and Knicks. I think it’s worth the risk for a healthly Rose.
oh, shit
i forgot about that game. i kept thinking his last game was boston.
Look
I didn’t want to offend anyone by saying the "f" word or generalizing my statement to any particular sex by saying "gays" or lesbians" or "bi’s" so "homos" is the most "politically correct" term. I’m just trying to be more tact in a tactless blog.
by Hindut Patrol on Feb 15, 2011 2:51 PM EST
Doesn't it ultimately come down to how badly they want home court?
Is the advantage worth it in my opinion? No, but maybe they believe they’ll need it to get by Miami
it came in handy against the Spurs in the finals last year.
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"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 18, 2012 2:11 PM CST up reply actions 8 recs
we get it
still, Bulls shouldn’t overvalue that
by JustAnotherFan on Jan 18, 2012 2:28 PM CST up reply actions
I know, I was just making an easy joke
I think the Bulls DO need home court to beat Miami. Or any edge, really. But obviously not more than they need Rose.
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"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 18, 2012 2:52 PM CST up reply actions
i dont
lets be real: if we get home court over miami, chances are we are gonna be hurting with injuries just like last year ..well, unless miami fall to a 4-5 seed and we snag the 3-4..but personally would take a healthy bulls team with little to no injuries against miami. thats just me, but i dont think its that important-e
I pretty much guarantee that both the Bulls and the Heat will not be below the 2nd seed
Your post doesn’t make sense.
by tuluse on Jan 18, 2012 4:11 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
It could be worse guys
Pistons announce Vanilla Ice will perform at halftime of Feb. 3 home game against Milwaukee. Part of “Totally 90’s” night promotion.
by JustAnotherFan on Jan 18, 2012 1:56 PM CST reply actions 8 recs
LOL
Look
I didn’t want to offend anyone by saying the "f" word or generalizing my statement to any particular sex by saying "gays" or lesbians" or "bi’s" so "homos" is the most "politically correct" term. I’m just trying to be more tact in a tactless blog.
by Hindut Patrol on Feb 15, 2011 2:51 PM EST
i dunno man..i'd lose it if he performed "go ninja go"
by Belize on Jan 18, 2012 2:14 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
What.The.Hell.Is.That
both on his head and his outfit
WCG's Resident Nickelback and Boy Band fan
Also rated Worst WCG Blogger by Dr. Steven Schweickert's extensive "Total BR" (Blogger Rating)
"Oh Dilfer, give me the strength...
to be as bad a WCG Contributor as you are an announcer/authority on anything. Peace be with you. " (JoetheBoss)
That’s only one of the greatest movies ever made!
Go ninja go go!
Bears. Bulls. White Sox.
by The Voiss on Jan 18, 2012 2:55 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 3 recs
cant lie
back when i was like…12 the dollar store near my house was going out of business or something, and my aunt was able to get me a vhs (THEY DO EXIST) of the ninja rap with vanilla ice. It was essentially a making of…well, just that scene. And it leads to the entire rap in a sort of a longer loop version of the scene from the movie. And i absolutely loved that vhs when i was kid.
I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!
pictured
(l. Russ Westbook, r. Nick Collison)
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"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 18, 2012 2:53 PM CST up reply actions 18 recs
... this is the greatest thing you've ever said.
Just Married...
by Dr. Handsome, D.D.S. on Jan 18, 2012 6:44 PM CST up reply actions
I'm impressed
I didn’t think Boozer had it in him anymore.
"Fuck this shit. Is this fucking season over yet? It is? Jesus H. motherfucking Christ on a stick! Get Nick Holt on the phone NOW! Stupid motherfucker forces us to score touchdowns on every possession, and we still can't win the Alamo Bowl? Hey, asshole! It's Steve Sarkisian. You're fucking FIRED, you FUCK!"
What I'm trying to understand is if this is a "new" turf toe or not
because Rose mentioned it’s bothering him since last year.
Since he is such a hard worker I wouldn’t be surprised if he didn’t rest 3 weeks since then
lets just asy this...
the medical staff is unsure as of this point, lol. Reason why the reclassified this injury as “turf toe” is purely cautionary intentions. They will provide maximal therapy and administer pain killers to Rose from now till Friday and determine by the amount of swelling from that point. Jsut have to wait till Friday or tomorrow (at earliest) to get a report on rose big toe injury.
Rip with the insight
Hamilton said Thibodeau was talking about having him practice before playing with two days off coming up. But Hamilton said he felt good Tuesday, so decided to try. "I told the trainer, ‘Don’t look at me as being hurt out there. If I’m in, I play.’ With Derrick out, guys had to step up," said Hamilton. "Guys attacked. Booz had 31, but like an easy 31. When your best player is out guys have to step up. If you want to win a championship you cannot depend on one person. Playing deep, teams can stop one player. That’s easy to guard. When you’ve got five guys on the same page, when they don’t know where the ball is going and where you are going to attack, that’s a difficult thing to defend."
by JustAnotherFan on Jan 18, 2012 2:43 PM CST reply actions 5 recs
lol, what a beast, but i guess with these two days and the 2 weeks of healing time, rip should be good to go (knock on wood*)
however, if i were the bulls training staff, i would continue treating that groin as a precautionary measure.
some interesting stuff in there
sam thinks rose is coming back on fri. that, and the potential signing of grant hill. i’m much happier with rip. luol’s not a SG.
Look
I didn’t want to offend anyone by saying the "f" word or generalizing my statement to any particular sex by saying "gays" or lesbians" or "bi’s" so "homos" is the most "politically correct" term. I’m just trying to be more tact in a tactless blog.
by Hindut Patrol on Feb 15, 2011 2:51 PM EST
yeah, hamilton really transformed this offense in the few games he's been in.
he was a pain in the ass to chase around before, and he still is now.
by obnoxious american on Jan 18, 2012 9:08 PM CST up reply actions
it is who you guard, not the spot in the offense
that determines position. grant hill can run point at least as well as rip hamilton.
as for the defensive end, all that matters is who guards wade (and lebron). although you could switch rip on lebron, i wouldn’t want to… and we shall see how he does vs wade.
i strongly prefer hill. (who just got melo to go 5-22 tonight, btw.)
ronpaul2012dotcom - it is important
Does anyone know what this is about?
<a href="http://espn.go.com/chicago/hot/?id=7472189" >
Specifically:
Let Rose spend the days off just shooting 3s, work on lightly stepping into his shot better and adding a little more arch. Turf toe? Sprained toe? Who cares. If the rumors are true that this injury is pre-existing and possibly degenerative, Rose needs to pretend that protective wear on his foot is a chastity boot.
by Dogfishhead on Jan 18, 2012 7:45 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
disagree on the fact that rose doesn't have the wealth of bball talent
that kobe and paul have. i’d say he’s the best off the dribble in the league, as well as one of the best finishers. his shot is excellent, especially midrange and shots with movement. his handles, court vision and body control are all up there with the best. kobe/paul are of course world class, but in no way is derrick diminished by comparison.
now let’s say rose sits for a minimum of 3 weeks. is it really so bad that booz and joakim are forced to create some scoring chemistry down low? or if lucas and cj get valuable experience running the point, especially against indiana and miami? if there was any better time to shut derrick down, it’s now. i think bulls fans would love to see the role players, especially rip, coalesce within the offense. the only concern is if thibs leans too hard on deng now.
i never thought i’d say this, but i really don’t care if we lose to miami at this point. an undefeated record vs miami got us nothing in the playoffs and if reg season losses stoke a fire under the bulls, so be it. main thing is the bench mob gets more minutes against motivated competition and rose will hopefully be strong for crunchtime. the rest is filler.
its better for boozer and noah mainly
if those guys can do well without rose, itll kill the myth that booz and noah are nothing without rose.
I have a new campaign
Keep Rose out of the All-Star game!!!! Seriously, put him on IR for the games bookending (that’s right, I made a new word), and give him a good long break in the middle of the season. Fans would rather watch Rose at near 100% in the playoffs than Rose in that farce of game at any time.
problem with your plan: the IR doesnt exist
they got rid of it years ago and changed it to “before every game if you have more than 12 on the roster, pick a couple guys to just be inactive. you dont need a reason” because the NBA was sick of guys like Dalibor Bagaric and Jerome James having tendonitis for 79 games just so teams could keep all 15 of their players under contract.
by kpd on Jan 19, 2012 2:00 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
why are we playing like we have worries about making the playoffs?
I say sit rose until he’s 100% even if we lose some damn games and as a result end up less then a #1 seed and during the time when rose is sitting we get jimmy bulter some minutes and rest up loul deng, if I sound crazy I don’t care our bench is good enough to win games without rose even if its not as many as we all like fact is our bench without rose for a month is going to win enough games to stay a 6 seed easily until rose gets back and then with him healthy we will pick things up all the way to #3 no doubt by time season is over with ease and if not we will settle for #4 or 5 who cares remember last year? screw a #1 seed because from what I can tell a #1 seed and a dollar will get you a bag of damn chips, if we wanna beat miami we will have to do it healthy.
OKC, Philly and Indiana lost their games
it’s a sign!
rest Rose
by JustAnotherFan on Jan 19, 2012 10:48 AM CST reply actions
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