Rose's recurring turf toe lead to Bulls loss in Memphis. Time for him to sit more?
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 17, 2012 8:30 AM CST
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PrintThe Rose-less Bulls were beat pretty soundly in Memphis on Monday afternoon. Not that surprising a result, though maybe the degree of beating was, especially on the boards.
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Sam Smith credits some lucky shooting from Memphis, though even he admits that was only part of the problem. Having point guards like Lucas, Watson, and Josh Selby out there no doubt added to the turnovers being so high for both teams. That, and playing at noon.
After a brief reprieve, the fact that Boozer and Noah didn't play 4th again while the Bulls staged a rally is still an issue. And it is, really. Funnily enough, another coach on Monday, Flip Saunders, invoked the Bulls benching strategy as a positive. It's a nice option for a good and deep team like the Bulls, but that it's borne out of necessity from poor play from Boozer (though he started out OK in the 1 quarter I saw Monday) and Noah is the actual issue. And we should have higher standards than the Wizards.
But back to that another day (maybe tonight!). The story is Derrick Rose's toe injury that he played through the weekend but wouldn't allow him to go in Memphis. Rose in his own words:
Rose tested his sprained big left toe during warm-ups and replied "6 or 7" when asked to rate his pain on a 1-10 scale. "Almost every game, I jam it," Rose said. "The way that I play and push off, it hurts. I'm kind of irritated. I want it to go away. But it always finds its way back."
KC Johnson reported that Rose is having bad reactions to the pain medication which is hampering his ability to recover, and the Bulls may hold him out for Tuesday night's home game against Phoenix.
Nick Friedell suggests that with the relatively easy upcoming schedule, it may come to management stepping in with a new recovery timetable that involves missing more games. As we know, Rose himself is Mr. Tough Guy and says that it's "his decision" whether to play or not.
(I believe such pieces like that are meant to make Rose seem admirable, how he 'fumes' at sitting and is willing to risk further injury to play the next game...but it also makes him look kinda silly.)
I don't even quite trust Thibs to make the call, since it sounds like if Rose says he's available to play, Thibs considers him fully 100% to handle a full workload. Against Toronto on Saturday night the Bulls had a 13-15 point lead for the entire final 6 minutes (again, against Toronto) and Rose played the entire time.
The good and timely news from Monday is that CJ Watson not only returned, but played well. Thibodeau had originally said that Watson couldn't return until the Bulls had a practice/shootaround so Watson could test his elbow, but reportedly Watson played some 3-on-3 on Sunday. And I wouldn't be surprised that seeing Rose not playing had Thibs reconsider his guidelines. Everything looked good for Watson though, and it's very fortunate that if Rose needs to miss more time that he's there to pick up some of those minutes from John Lucas III.
Oh, and you can go through all those links and nobody seems to know anything on Rip Hamilton. Rumor had it he was a shooting guard acquisition for the Bulls this offseason, but I'm trying to find confirmation.
Other Notes:
- Rose was announced as a finalist for Team USA, the squad eventually heading to the London Olympics. Compounded with this injury news it's tempting to wish he didn't go, like Windy Citizen tries to do here, but it's just not realistic.
- Power Rankings came out Monday. They're mostly pointless, but with the Bulls at #1, maybe we should enjoy it before a potentially Rose-less week knocks them down a peg or four: SBNation | ProBasketballTalk | ESPN.com | NBA.com. Sam Smith had them at #2. Boo.
- Really random report (and credit to PBT for finding it) has Mitch Lawrence from the NY Daily News citing sources that say Tom Thibodeau is "is not very happy that the team hasn't discussed his future". Thibs has a team option for next year that hasn't been picked up yet. Seems like it'll be a formality, so the intriguing thing is if Thibs is genuinely upset. Ooh, maybe he's pulling a VDN-Noah with having Rose play on a bad toe. Nah. Maybe. [This is all very odd. Personal, factless guess: Thibs' people are leaking this -- whether true or not -- because they don't want the Bulls to pick up the option, but to instead craft a new, more lucrative, longer term deal. Remember that William Wesley's people are Thibs' people and that would be a very CAA thing to do. Just sayin'. -Alex]
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So is it turf toe or not? Does anyone even know? My apologies if I missed the confirmation on the injury.
If the injury is just a sprained toe and not full fledged turf toe, I think sitting Rose the rest of this week isn’t such a bad idea. They are certainly capable of winning all three games IMO even with the crap they seem to be getting from Jo and Booz…but going 2-1 or even 1-2 in that stretch and getting a healthy DRose back ahead of that 9 game road trip is probably more important than throwing him out there and having this injury continue to pop up again and again.
Then again, if this is indeed turf toe…holding him out for even longer might be worth considering.
its not a turf toe
its a different kind of sprained toe and it has been mentioned several times before. Its a hyperextended sprained toe and it takes about 5 days to heal if Rose takes his medication and treats it as well as possible.
Sit him!
While I would rate the pain of watching the Bulls play without Rose a 6 or 7 out of 10, I want to see the rest of the team find their way without him. I’d risk a few Ws now for a ring later.
Our team is seriously no better than a .500 team without him
We need to get Derrick another superstar before we become this decade’s cavs. This chemistry bullshit sounds as ridiculous as the cavs front office being afraid to ruin their chemistry and make lebron mad too.
By popular demand I am putting a moratorium on the Melo talk until the Knicks win the title in June.
I don't get how it makes Rose look silly to want to play.
Athletes playing through injury is the holy grail of American sports. If you don’t play through injury you are ridiculed (see Deng, Luol and Boozer, Carlos as examples). Kobe Bryant is lionized for his ability to withstand pain. As is Ben Rothelisberger. Those guys play through pain even when it likely detrimental to their team, perhaps their careers. Conversely I’ve heard many a fan snicker when Forte shut it down. And don’t forget the grief Cutler took when he went out of a playoff game with a knee injury. When Lebron sat a few games at the end of the season a couple of years ago, he was called out by many a sports analyst. I imagine the snickering and macho posturing only increases in the lockerroom.
No, this is all on management. Everything in the “code of sports” says Rose has to play if he is able to play. Its managements job to look past macho posturing, and make the decision in the best interest of the athlete or the team. I mean Thibs didn’t want to play CJ with clearance because he hadn’t had a practice. But they are going to Rose every day and asking him if he can go? After the Hamilton self-prognosis blew up in their face? If he needs a walking boot, he isn’t healthy, and someone with some authority should step in (if need be). Maybe Paxson needs to go Mad Pax on Thibs like he did VDN.
by Basketball Smurf on Jan 17, 2012 11:27 AM CST reply actions
I guess it's the lionizing that is what I'm calling silly
Rose’s quotes only fuel it, of course, but no I don’t expect him to say otherwise.
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"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 17, 2012 12:24 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Conversely I’ve heard many a fan snicker when Forte shut it down.
good god. i’d like to see the visionary that would do that.
by obnoxious american on Jan 17, 2012 4:00 PM CST up reply actions
Is it his shoes?
they seem to have soft soles.
I know he is wearing an insert(now?), but still.
From the Wizards blog
I’m done with McGee. He doesn’t care about winning and that makes him the big man version of Ben Gordon. Let’s move him over the summer instead of going the 1 yr QO route.
You may want to remove your link, lol.
by Basketball Smurf on Jan 17, 2012 12:06 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
pfft, that's in the comments
nobody reads those, or if they do do not take them seriously.
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 17, 2012 1:50 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
My whole life is a sham :(
Sadly, my self worth is almost entirely based upon the outcome of the previous night's Bulls game.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jan 17, 2012 2:37 PM CST up reply actions
Lol
Good one!
Bulls, Bears and White Sox, what!!!
by Rose2RipKaboom! on Jan 17, 2012 2:59 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
If the Wizards actually do try to move McGee, I'd love to take a flyer on him
Honestly, I might prefer him to Noah right now. McGee’s one of the worst passers in the league, but he might be better than Noah at everything else right now. He’s also three years younger.
Pat Riley is the devil.
I'd take him on a flyer too. Maybe a 747, drop him somewhere over the ocean... (no one would notice that he's gone)
Sadly, my self worth is almost entirely based upon the outcome of the previous night's Bulls game.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jan 17, 2012 2:39 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
wow, I was looking for Sonty's post. I was on front page overload.
I know at 12-3 it’s no reason to panic (yet), so let Rose sit. more important to have him healthy later. but the way they play without him is concerning. and it bothers using Rose being out as an excuse for
losing to all these Heat fans. but i feel it’s lame because some of these other teams have multiple stars where is one gets hurt, someone else can pick up the slack. Wade goes
down, still got Lebron and bosh. Melo gets hurt, still got Amare’’’’. Paul gets hurt, still got Blake. now, I’m not saying any of these teams are better or worse than the Bulls, but it’s a nice commodity to have. in the long run, how much does their ineptitude start to play in Rose’s mind and begin to say he needs help? I know Rose has no early termination in his new deal, but how long before he gets frustrated with GarPax? I know them struggling without him only
proves his worth more, but it also
clues him in to the fact this team lacks serious top-end talent after Rose. that’s a concern.
by BULLieving in Miami on Jan 17, 2012 12:35 PM CST via iPhone app reply actions
Sonty's post never happened
NEVER HAPPENED.
There was a mixup on my post not showing up when I first posted it this morning. So his will go up later this week. I did add the bit about Thibodeau and William Wesley.
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 17, 2012 12:45 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
uh oh
some in-house bickering? the honeymoon is over!! LOL. just kidding. I thought it was funny.
by BULLieving in Miami on Jan 17, 2012 12:47 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
i have this demented mental picture of sonty [pause]
refereshing bab, and just potting and waiting for yfbb to post.. and the minute it does, posting his saved work and cackling to himself like he’s hackin’ The Gibson
BaB: where hostile take-overs happen
by BULLieving in Miami on Jan 17, 2012 1:14 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions 1 recs
I expect the bulls to play much better without Rose than they did. That they didnt get it done against memphis is disappointing. These are the games where i expect Boozer to step it up. In two games he hasnt. Deng being our first option is not a good look. Watson should be our first weapon, then Booz, then Deng, when Rose is out.
Bulls, Bears and White Sox, what!!!
by Rose2RipKaboom! on Jan 17, 2012 3:11 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
yeah i mean the fact that lucas started
despite cj being available kinda sucked and wasted the first quarter. i think the bulls would have done much better with cj’s firepower out of the gate.
that and i mean people are acting like w/out rose we’re doomed – we’re also without rip and he’s obviously capable of helping out the offense on nights when derrick is out.
Look
I didn’t want to offend anyone by saying the "f" word or generalizing my statement to any particular sex by saying "gays" or lesbians" or "bi’s" so "homos" is the most "politically correct" term. I’m just trying to be more tact in a tactless blog.
by Hindut Patrol on Feb 15, 2011 2:51 PM EST
yeah, people still dont know what they would get from rip
however, from what we saw against the clippers, rip is really important to the bulls smooth offensive flow.
I don't think we can expect anything
Rose has missed something like 8 games in his 3+ years now. we really don’t know what this will look like over an extended period. all we have to go in with this current group is 1-2 w/o Rose (last year in DEN, this season v. WAS & MEM). not very inspiring.
by BULLieving in Miami on Jan 17, 2012 3:23 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
yeah, though the DEN game was perfectly winnable.
Look
I didn’t want to offend anyone by saying the "f" word or generalizing my statement to any particular sex by saying "gays" or lesbians" or "bi’s" so "homos" is the most "politically correct" term. I’m just trying to be more tact in a tactless blog.
by Hindut Patrol on Feb 15, 2011 2:51 PM EST
i believe you mean FTL :(
Look
I didn’t want to offend anyone by saying the "f" word or generalizing my statement to any particular sex by saying "gays" or lesbians" or "bi’s" so "homos" is the most "politically correct" term. I’m just trying to be more tact in a tactless blog.
by Hindut Patrol on Feb 15, 2011 2:51 PM EST
pretty sure he meant
JL3?
FML
Checking out my sprunjer?
by Chicago Faithful on Jan 17, 2012 3:31 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
eh
it took a monster effort from Watson for that game to be close.
by BULLieving in Miami on Jan 17, 2012 3:37 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
Pay the man
Now. Thibs has earned a new lucrative contract. I say wrap it up by the all star game.
Bulls, Bears and White Sox, what!!!
by Rose2RipKaboom! on Jan 17, 2012 3:15 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
But Thibs knows defense.
By popular demand I am putting a moratorium on the Melo talk until the Knicks win the title in June.
by sin on Jan 17, 2012 12:53 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
They're going to blame Thibs if we lose and then hire Phil Jackson!
Just kidding. I mean Thibs has to be back right? I don’t see any scenario where he gets let go.
By popular demand I am putting a moratorium on the Melo talk until the Knicks win the title in June.
scenario:
Thibs plays Rose 49 minutes tonight in a regulation loss which was decided midway through the 3rd qtr.
by BULLieving in Miami on Jan 17, 2012 12:55 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions 1 recs
only Thibs would find a way to play Rose 49 minutes in a 48 minute game
by Basketball Smurf on Jan 17, 2012 2:05 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
For one minute he plays two positions
Deng will play the other 3
by tuluse on Jan 17, 2012 2:43 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
The only scenario...
I see to fire Thibs is if he shoots Rose. If he shoots Boozer, he gets an extension.
by El Toro de Goro on Jan 17, 2012 1:57 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Looking Forward...
I don’t think it is time for the Bulls to panic just yet. They still stand strong in the EAST with a 12-3 record. With Rose out, this is the time that other NBA PLAYERS (watson, lucas, korver) need to step up and earn they pay check; like for say Bosh did with Wade and James out.
The Bulls need to take better concern for their Superstar Rose. As an athlete there are going to want to play no matter the circumstances exspecially for a player of his caliber. The athletic staff need to take more caution with his playing because with the shorten season, playoffs is where he is going to be need in trying to win this NBA championship. He needs to heal more until he say the pain is at a 2 or 3.
#GOBULLS
i know. i'm belittling it by pretending i don't know what it is.
i also know it’s fricking dumb.
by obnoxious american on Jan 17, 2012 4:10 PM CST up reply actions
Limiting expression to 140 characters usually leads to dumbness
Who needs to know how to write when you can’t even fit whole thoughts, but much less multiple in a single post.
The Bulls need to rest Rose until the toe is COMPLETELY healed. They might lose a few
games, but if Watson plays half way decently and that SG we signed……..I forget his name, haven’t seen the back of his jersey in a while, plays well, they can survive. If they can win a few games without Rose, maybe it’ll be better for the teams confidence. I’m sure they don’t want to be compared to the Cavs with Lebron.
Maybe Boozer and Noah will finally step up knowing Rose won’t play for a week. Probably not, but Rose still needs to rest. Oh, and can we put a shock collar on Thibs every time he decides to play Rose and Deng in blowouts, or when they’re not a 100%? Maybe put a clause in his next contract, if the F.O. resigns him.
On the J.R. Smith bandwagon until otherwise advised.
i trust watson can do a far better job than lucas playing the point
im not worried about tonights game. btw, i totally agree with ur sig. Maybe if our facemasked SG does not do well, will the bulls consider signing him to a two year deal?
Unfortunately J.R. Smith doesn't fit the F.O.'s player mold, and I don't think the Bulls have enough
money under the cap to sign him. I can still hope/dream though.
On the J.R. Smith bandwagon until otherwise advised.
yeah, but then again, rip was causing "problems" in detroit and yet the bulsl still signed him
however, smith is a whole different breed of “troublemakers.”
Agreed
Playing him in a game tonight will be pointless. If he were to have a setback when the games get really important, that would be critical to playoff positioning.
That being said, it’s very hard to figure out what the hell the deal is with this injury. If there really is no further risk by playing on it, and it’s just something that could show up at an point, AND it really is just a question of pain tolerance, then I really don’t see the point of sitting him either (if he says he’s good to go)
Sadly, my self worth is almost entirely based upon the outcome of the previous night's Bulls game.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jan 17, 2012 2:54 PM CST up reply actions
I agree, the only thing that worries me is the medical staff on the bulls don't seem to be
the best in the league. Watson’s injury wasn’t supposed to be that serious originally and then we hear he’ll be out for a week or so. Rip said he was good to go, and the medical staff cleared him, he ends up re-aggravating it. And I think last year with Noah’s thumb. (Not 100% sure on this though, so feel free to correct me if I’m wrong). I know this particular toe injury isn’t the same as these other injuries or a turf toe, but a lot of this season hinges on Derrick, and I’d prefer if they were a little cautious with him.
On the J.R. Smith bandwagon until otherwise advised.
actually, the bulls medical staff has been rated as one of the best in the league
last year there werent any problems, but its this year where they should have forced rip to sit out the pistons game. Rose’s injury had unexpected results yesterday and the sprained toe injury should keep him out throughout the whole week. I dont think its turf toe otherwise i think rose wouldnt be doing what he did vs the celtics.
It's not turf toe.
I don’t think it’s humanly possible for him to perform like that with turf toe. It’s something else and we can hope is that once it heals, it’s gone for good. No re-aggravating bullshit. Sit him for a week or whatever it takes, then bring him back 100%.
Until then, I’ll be picking Watson on all my free Draftstreet leagues ‘cause he’s so cheap.
rose sitting out is good for both rose and the team
rose needs rest, he needs to heal. Team needs to heal as well, boozer and noah have gotta find their groove, and its probably more likely to happen without rose being their crutch. Make up an injury for deng and sit him as well, lets whip the rest of them into shape….it will help in the long run
I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!
lol, you beat me by a second.
Sadly, my self worth is almost entirely based upon the outcome of the previous night's Bulls game.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jan 17, 2012 4:05 PM CST up reply actions
Hmmm, Rip Hamilton's first tweet in a couple weeks:
ripcityhamilton Rip Hamilton
Let’s get it.
Probably means nothing, but could it possibly be a sign that he’s ready to go tonight?
(Even he was mostly ready, I’m not sure why they wouldn’t still give him the extra two days of rest, and a day of practice)
Sadly, my self worth is almost entirely based upon the outcome of the previous night's Bulls game.
i actually mentioned this already in the game preview thread
for today, but the mybulls email said that rip was a probable starter. it hasn’t said that since he went down.
Look
I didn’t want to offend anyone by saying the "f" word or generalizing my statement to any particular sex by saying "gays" or lesbians" or "bi’s" so "homos" is the most "politically correct" term. I’m just trying to be more tact in a tactless blog.
by Hindut Patrol on Feb 15, 2011 2:51 PM EST
Wow, nice catch
That would be pretty uplifting with all the Rose doom and gloom
Sadly, my self worth is almost entirely based upon the outcome of the previous night's Bulls game.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jan 17, 2012 4:06 PM CST up reply actions
espn 1000 reporting that derrick likely not playing.
by obnoxious american on Jan 17, 2012 4:43 PM CST reply actions
Is that what it is?
I had to leave before the little cliffhanger of “For D Rose fans I have something you will like and hate at the same time” <—-almost thought that meant he’d play. I knew I should’ve picked up CJ in my league! Damnit!
Any definite word
On rose playing yet? I’m goin to the game and would really hate to have to wait til march 14th to see him play live
at least its hockey season now
by comebackkirk12 on Jan 17, 2012 5:08 PM CST via mobile reply actions
preview posted
http://www.blogabull.com/2012/1/17/2712412/bulls-vs-phoenix-suns-2011-12-game-preview-16
Derrick reportedly not participating in shootaround.
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 17, 2012 5:18 PM CST reply actions
grammar police:
“lead” doesn’t equal “leads” or “led”
Rose decides not to go 1-on-2 and I was thinking, "what are you doing?! You've got the numbers!" -Zach Harper, Daily Dime Live
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