The SG options: J.R. Smith, Jason Richardson, or...less?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 18, 2011 7:30 PM CDT

Doug Thonus' latest Bulls Beat podcast is delightfully lockout-minimal, and instead looks at two of the top free agent shooting guards this (coming?) offseason: J.R. Smith and Jason Richardson.

As with anything in these lockout times, it involves some assumptions, such as cap exceptions still existing. This is different than the KC Johnson expectation (nay, DREAM) that the Bulls will instead have to rely on minimum-contract-only options. But like Doug, I'd rather not think of options like Anthony Parker. And he brings up some interesting points in these two options as well as SG search as a whole:

The qualifications needed: Shot creation, jumpshooting, ballhandling, defense? There are no perfect options (else they likely wouldn't be 'mid-level' free agents) so you have to make concessions somewhere. I'm still on Team-Mayo due to the ballhandling, by the way.
How based on Richardson's criteria, the Bulls do seem to be a good fit.
What makes a 'bad guy' vs. a 'bad teammate'. J.R. Smith has had his brushes with the law (and that's putting it lightly depending on your view), but unlike some other troublesome NBA players (Doug brings up Rasheed Wallace) he's also been consistently considered bad teammate and hard to coach. The latter trait is the more alarming than what's off-the-court, as is 'selfishness' in terms of actual on-court action. As much as I mock the Bulls zeal in searching for 'character', (for instance: that Anthony Parker link above...he's from Chicago! his sister may be better than him! Hold on I have to clean up puke from my keyboard!) you don't want someone disrupting the flow of a possession consistently like J.R. Smith can do, nor being an outright ass to coach Thibs. I don't think that absence of 'character' is evidence of poor character, but Smith seems to be especially risky in that department.
On a similar note, the need to either find a true starting ('lead'? Bogans perhaps ruined the word 'starting') SG going into next season. Simply adding more options instead of consolidating for a better one could actually hurt the team considering that Brewer, Korver, and Watson are already going for minutes at that position. And this also seems counter to my feelings on chemistry, but I do believe that poor chemistry can hurt, just moreso that 'great' chemistry isn't that useful compared to talent.

So go check that 'cast out for Doug's opinions on those matters, it's good stuff.

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Comments

I don't like J-Rich unless it's for a low-commitment contract

YaoPau’s post about Joe Johnson (http://www.blogabull.com/2010/2/8/1300945/what-can-we-expect-from-joe-johnson) makes me a little weary about making a long-term commitment to a 30-year-old J-Rich.

Two years at a reasonable salary wouldn’t be our worst option.

by Luol's Dong on Jul 18, 2011 7:58 PM CDT reply actions

i think the risk is greater

for a player whos getting the max like a joe johnson, joe johnson at 5 million starting and going up about 10 percent every year maybe isnt bad at all, hell id say its pretty good. And if the cba doesnt change much, the midlevel is like 5 mil and change, and contracts usually go up about 10 percent annually.

I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!

by piccolomair on Jul 19, 2011 12:37 AM CDT up reply actions

Joe Johnson on Boozer type money would still be fantastic.

The wheels will fal of the bus in 3-4 years, but his shot will still be there.

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on Jul 19, 2011 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

i think its due to the bulls that atlanta gave joe so much money

i think atl wanted to keep joe johnson, and were negotiating a smaller deal with him, but i think the bulls started to show interest in him as the backup plan if lebron wasnt had and atl offered him as much as they could before he went into a negotiating game.

I think the bulls wouldve been much better off with joe johnson, not because hes that good, but he fit a need, and in hindsight, a rotation of asik kurt and taj at the 4 spot wouldve been just fine. Joe johnson might never have been worth that max, but at least he could play, still play make, and still would be an okay defender.

Hindsight…

I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!

by piccolomair on Jul 19, 2011 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions

Has nothing to do with hindsight..

The Bulls legitimately couldn’t match what the Hawks paid. They made a mistake at the SG position, but hindsight still shows the Bulls didn’t have a chance to sign Johnson. That being said, it certainly doesn’t make Keith Bogans acceptable in any way.

by Grinder in Training on Jul 19, 2011 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs

Well yes, the Atlanta Max contract was what ended

the Bulls to Joe Johnson talk, but what I was referring to was:

joe johnson at 5 million starting and going up about 10 percent every year maybe isnt bad at all, hell id say its pretty good.

I think even playing Joe johnson for 5 years at $75million (Boozer’s contract) would have been good value as well. Maybe then they don’t for Korver and sign a stretch 4 with the 3y/15mil.

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on Jul 19, 2011 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions

umm.. JJ to Bulls.

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on Jul 19, 2011 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions

boozer would have been signed too

The Bulls had enough money to offer a max contract to someone even after signing Boozer. There was just no way that Johnson could turn down the extra money and extra year from Atlanta. The starters would have been Rose, Johnson, Deng, Boozer, and Noah, with Taj and Asik still there as reserves. Maybe they would have used the mid-level to sign Korver or maybe they would have split it several ways. At any rate, the Hawks threw a wrench in the Bulls’ first back-up plan (Boozer and Johnson) by offering Johnson a contract that even the vast majority of their own fans decried as insane. Unfortunately, as it turned out, Johnson seems to be exactly what we need at the moment.

by thelivingant on Jul 19, 2011 8:39 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

Yeah, Johnson for Boozer money (along with Boozer for Boozer money)

would have been great. We would have had the additional impact guard/wing to make the difference, and Johnson would not have been forced to lead a team.

Unfortunately (for everyone I think) Johnson got offered way too much by the Hawks. It eliminated the Bulls from contention (we weren’t offering him a max deal) and it locked the Hawks (and Johnson) into perennial “good but not quite good enough” status.

One thing to note, however, is that while the team might have been able to afford the additions of both Johnson and Boozer in the short term, it probably wouldn’t have worked in the longer term (when the salaries for Noah and Rose really escalate). Getting those guys might have ultimately cost us Noah (of course, there’s no guarantee that we still won’t lose Noah…).

by SouthernCub on Jul 20, 2011 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions

really, the chemistry talk is getting on my nerves

maybe I just listen to too much LeBatard. but a 12-deep roster just isn’t going to cut it. ultimately you’re not going to find minutes for all 12. they really do need to consolidate some talent.

I’m kinda with yfBB on this one that Mayo could be had. JR seems like too much of a risk, J-Rich is… older. Mayo still has the most upside IMO and seems to be the most coachable in that I haven’t heard too much about him griping despite being jerked around a bit in MEM.

really though, what’s the use… this labor situation has really killed any motivation or excitement for the offseason.

http://bullieving-in-miami.tumblr.com/

by BULLieving in Miami on Jul 18, 2011 10:18 PM CDT via mobile reply actions

didnt a "12 deep roster" just beat lebatards team in the finals?

"Jimmer is going to take one of those crazy 3s, and DeMarcus Cousins is going to come at him like a rhino."

-Basketball Smurf

by TheMoon on Jul 18, 2011 10:49 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs

they were missing their second best player too

Should've traded for Melo.

by sin on Jul 18, 2011 11:22 PM CDT up reply actions

It is too much imo

I think the most you can go to remain fully effective is 10 deep of players you intend to use. After that you are talking about multiple backups at each position and there just isn’t enough minutes.

by tuluse on Jul 19, 2011 2:05 AM CDT up reply actions

not really

the Mavs weren’t playing 7 subs. in fact, they made the adjustment and brought one of their better bench players into the starting lineup (Barea). so who was left coming off the bench… Jet, Stevenson (and his minutes became less with that move), and whatever scrub was backing up Chandler? I might be forgetting someone because it already seems like an eternity ago, but that’s still just an 8 or 9-man rotation. who knows if having Butler and Haywood available might’ve actually hurt them a bit.

http://bullieving-in-miami.tumblr.com/

by BULLieving in Miami on Jul 19, 2011 6:40 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions

I think Richardson is the most likely option

He’s not my top choice since, due to his age, we’ll be right back to square one 1-3 years from now, but I’d still be okay with it. I doubt he gets a 5-year offer from anywhere (partly because te new CBA may not allow it), and if it’s the full MLE for 4 years, I can accept that. He’ll be a useless waste of salary in the 4th and maybe also 3rd year of that deal, but we’ll be capped out so who cares?

Pat Riley is the devil.

by Poloplaya14 on Jul 18, 2011 10:47 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs

i think it makes sense for the bulls front office as well

i think in their heads its the “right” move to make sure that both richardson and boozer suck at the same point in their contracts, and both contracts expire at about the same time (while we fans get to experience their suckage at the same as well) thus sending us into a complete semi rebuild with rose and probably a lottery pick (deng will be injured again, meaning rose will have no backup with an injured deng, old boozer and richardson) and thus the bulls will go through a new orleans like season, with rose and a bunch of peaked players….but lo and behold, the two suckiest and oldest players would come off the books and we would have al ottery pick and mirotic would be going into his 3rd year of his nba contract.

Its all according to plan

I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!

by piccolomair on Jul 19, 2011 2:09 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

Looks like they may actually know what they're doing

I was one of the most disappointed that we didn’t grab a SG in a trade or the draft. I guess the trade is still a possibility once the CBA is done.

If we sign JRich for say 3 years with an exception, then we’ve made the team better for next year. He may not be the favored pick, but I think we can all agree JRich is better than Bogans. And you’ll end up with pretty good trade bait for the next couple of years. You’ll have Taj, Asik, Brewer, Korver, and Watson as assets for the next 2 years and Booz, JRich, and Deng after that. Which means even though we’ll be capped out we will still have some ways to alter the roster.

You’ll have Mirotic coming over in 2 years to take either Taj’s or Asik’s spot in the rotation. And check out the potential SG’s in next year’s draft. They’re way better quality than this year’s crop. It’s at least 6 or 7 guys that I would’ve ranked above Thompson or Burks. They may actually have a good plan this time.

by Ceasaleo on Jul 19, 2011 3:40 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions

We shouldn't really ask if JRich is better than Bogans.

Bogans doesn’t get starter minutes. But I think JRich/Brewer or JRich/Korver is better than Bogans/Brewer/Korver.

by Tim S. on Jul 19, 2011 5:05 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

holy moly that's depressing

BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 19, 2011 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

I was surprised he didn't mention a DRose motorcycle accident as part of the plan...

I don’t see any reason to think a Richardson signing will throw the Bulls into a downward spiral the ends with a “complete semi rebuild” (whatever that means) and the Bulls back in the lottery.

by pooriejay on Jul 19, 2011 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions

Two other FA options at SG...

Jamal Crawford and Marcus Thornton(restricted).

by The Old Mack From Way Back on Jul 19, 2011 1:08 AM CDT reply actions

atlanta series was all i needed to see from jamal.

unless someone can hammer the idea of favorable shot selection into him. which is doubtful, considering it looks he hasn’t improved on that since he was a bull initially.

by obnoxious american on Jul 19, 2011 4:31 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs

I agree. Just say no to Crawford.

Bad shot selection on one end, no defense on the other.

by Tim S. on Jul 19, 2011 5:05 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

My thirst for a SG

doesn’t make me pine for the return of Jamal Crawford.

by Dennis Hopson2 on Jul 19, 2011 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions

I don't think Thornton is "available."

Technically, yes, we could make an offer after the lockout, but Sactown isn’t going to let him go after just trading for him.

by arjoseph on Jul 19, 2011 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions

They might...

Their recent trades have brought in way too many players who need the ball…Thornton should at least be on the radar.

7 for 7.

by Dionysus2.0 on Jul 20, 2011 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions

Yeah, but that assumes rationality on the part of Sacramento management.

by arjoseph on Jul 20, 2011 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions

look on the bright side

if they’re irrational, there’s no telling what they’ll do, good or bad for us.

by SidM on Jul 21, 2011 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions

Aaron Afflalo

might be over rated, but regardless he is still i think a top canidate for this job were looking for. In fact out all the available players, i still say he is the best fit. He can defend, he can shoot, he can create his own shot, hes played as a backup pg (cj watson style) for denver quite often, and he has the age (26 atm) to grow within the system for the duration of his contract,

In a nutshell

vs Jason Richardson-hes younger and a better playmaker
vs JR smith- better personality, more committed to defense, and a better playmaker
vs Oj Mayo-cheaper, lacks star power (ego)

I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!

by piccolomair on Jul 19, 2011 2:19 AM CDT reply actions

Looking over their stats

It looks like both JR Smith and Afflalo are better than OJ Mayo at everything. It also looks like JR Smith is better at playmaking, but Afflalo is the more efficient scorer and a better shooter.

I think the best plan is to get either Smith or Afflalo, whichever one Denver wants less so as to be easier to acquire.

by tuluse on Jul 19, 2011 3:21 AM CDT up reply actions

And most signs point to Denver wanting Afflalo.

by Tim S. on Jul 19, 2011 5:06 AM CDT up reply actions

this seems about as likely as monta ellis

RFA on a rebuilding team…cant imagine a situation where we are the high bidders

by Bush League Bob on Jul 19, 2011 5:14 AM CDT up reply actions

Afflalo isnt going anywhere, tho he has been my first choice

and JR will be an overpriced chucker and an at the least a question mark in the locker room. richardson says he’s willing to sacrifice some salary for a shot at a title, I say we pounce.

by DFinnToWin on Jul 19, 2011 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions

im hoping denver decides they like the media spectacle that is jr smith?

ah who am i kididng, yea affalo aint going nowhere. too bad really. Mayo it is then. I think a guy like mayo (or affalo) can score and defend well for a sg, but more importantly can play a point guard type role as well which is ideal since even with mayo or smith or richardson, rose would and probably still should be our primary scorer, and rose’s ability to move without the ball justifies that even if the ball is given up by rose, it shouldnt mean that rose shouldnt be the one to score. Hes one of hte best scorers in the game, and its not so much we need someone who can score aside from rose (we do) but we also need someone who can take hte pressure off of rose a bit so rose can have an easier time at scoring. IT is for this reason i rather have a guy who can run the point as well score and defend at the 2spot alongside rose. In other words its not just bogans we are upgrading here, it should be getting a more sg version of cj watson

I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!

by piccolomair on Jul 19, 2011 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions

Is Richardson willing to play defense for a shot at the title?

by tuluse on Jul 19, 2011 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

I like Afflalo as well

He had some clutch baskets in Denver. C’mon Nuggets…you don’t need him.

The NBA summer will now be 1000% more enjoyable.

by jrobulls on Jul 19, 2011 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions

id be happy with jrich or mayo

Woooooooooooooot!!

by Belize on Jul 19, 2011 10:59 AM CDT reply actions

isn't mayo like 6'3 or so?

Is he tall enough to effectively defend other shooting guards. I like his upside but the fight with tony allen and the p.e.d. suspension seem like red flags. Jr smith could be our new Rodman, the missing piece to a contender but batshit crazy. Do we really want rose subjected to this nut job? Richardson could be a fit but he just doesn’t seem dynamic enough at his current age.

by #1humblebot on Jul 19, 2011 12:12 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions

J-Rich

still knocks down that 3 at a good rate

by Dennis Hopson2 on Jul 19, 2011 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

yep

Woooooooooooooot!!

by Belize on Jul 19, 2011 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions

Yah...he still does

by sports_aficionado on Jul 20, 2011 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions

he compares to D Wade in size

Mayo is smaller than Wade He seems maybe a bit on the above average side defensively, and with our mobile bigs and Thibs defensive schemes, I think you can get the situation down to the point if he scores, he won’t be an issue.

In my opinion, he isn’t a turnstile like Boozer is on D.

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on Jul 19, 2011 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions

Mayo, Afflalo,

J-Rich, JR Smith would be nice if we get one, its a victory for the team, please stay away from Anthony Parker.

by Dennis Hopson2 on Jul 19, 2011 12:04 PM CDT reply actions 5 recs

This team is a Mayo and a Mirotic away from being my favorite Bulls team

Well that and a subtraction of a Boozer

Throw in the 2016 mystery meat as well while we’re at it

8tracks/Tumblr

by Option27 on Jul 19, 2011 1:32 PM CDT via mobile reply actions

LOL!

After reading all of these comments I find it amazing that everyone is simply avoiding the elephant in the room . Considering that Thonus spent a good part of his cast mentioning the guy, I guess the guy must’ve really garnered some real hate. The best viable answer for the Bulls is Ben Gordon pure and simple. He’s the best option, with the best attitude, and the least gamble of anyone in this group. Oh and yes Affalo or Mayo may be better in time, but I’ll admit that when they actually have a season in their collective careers up to par with any of BG’s best.

Sure he’s more money but given what we have to choose from he should be. If there’s a way to move Korver and say Watson and possibly get BG back, then I’m all for it. He can come in and give you comparable ball handling skills to Watson. Less defense? Absolutely. But what you gain in scoring output and attention from defenses, and late game scenarios supersedes that.

If not BG, then JR Smith or Affalo. But if I have a chance to get a proven commodity in the league who I already know can fit with my best player without the headaches of a Smith or the wasted money and years of an aging Richardson then I’m all for it. I can see Thibs having BG running through screens ala Ray Allen for the next 5 years.

Hey Rose. I don't see the appeal!

by Dils on Jul 19, 2011 3:29 PM CDT reply actions 6 recs

BG's

contract is viable, it would be a cap killer, and who knows what 2 years in Detriot might have done to him

by Dennis Hopson2 on Jul 19, 2011 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs

they turned him into pargo

Should've traded for Melo.

by sin on Jul 19, 2011 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs

You act like he was sexually assaulted or something

His first year there was an injury riddled season but before that injury he was off to his best season as a pro. The second year, he obviously played for a terrible coach in a terrible situation. He’s still the same dude. He just needs to get the hell out of Detroit.

Hey Rose. I don't see the appeal!

by Dils on Jul 19, 2011 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions

Let it go already

owners are looking to roll back on salaries, so his contract is going to go from bad to worse. That alone means he is never going to be in a Bulls uniform again. If we are going to pine for unrealistic options, lets think of swapping Boozer for Blake Griffin, or Deng for Durant, not picking up Ben Gordon.

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on Jul 20, 2011 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs

Well tell Thounus to let it go

Because I was actually echoing his thoughts, not just mine. Trading Deng for Durant or Boozer for Blake are of course unrealistic. Getting BG back won’t happen but not because it’s some impossible task like getting Lebron for Bogans. If the Bulls wanted the best investment for the opportunity at a title in a SG and didn’t have their own agenda for not wanting BG, they’d get him. So enjoy Anthony Parker or at best an aging Richardson (Who I don’t necessarily think is a great fit) becase that’s probably the best we’ll do.

Hey Rose. I don't see the appeal!

by Dils on Jul 20, 2011 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions

Who cares what contracts look like if we're winning championships?

by tuluse on Jul 20, 2011 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions

Nobody wants

BG at $11+ mill when you got to resign the likes of Rose & Asik.

by Dennis Hopson2 on Jul 22, 2011 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions

Assuming the new CBA includes Bird rights

Who cares how much money the team is spending?

The Lakers are paying Bynum 15 mil per year to play about 50 games, and Dallas paid Haywood 7.6 mil and he was awful, but none of that mattered when they won championships.

by tuluse on Jul 24, 2011 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions

I've been beating this drum for a while now

But I just don’t see this front office acquiring Ben Gordon.

by tuluse on Jul 19, 2011 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions

Aside from his contract, there's also the fact that he's kinda sucked the past 2 years

Pat Riley is the devil.

by Poloplaya14 on Jul 19, 2011 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs

There is another former Piston who is available...

And TMac showed that he has something left in the tank last season…not only can he provide a scoring punch and average 3 pt shooting, he can create for others, which is something the Bulls were sorely lacking the playoffs..

7 for 7.

by Dionysus2.0 on Jul 20, 2011 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions

Good god, no!

by CubFan81 on Jul 21, 2011 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

We might as well get try

Redd if you’re looking at T-Mac, Redd should still be able to knock down shots and come off screens, but hell no to both of those guys.

by Dennis Hopson2 on Jul 22, 2011 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions

Warriors fan here

Would you guys have more interest in Ellis or Curry playing SG with Rose?

_______________________________________________________________
The City: A Golden State Warriors-Centric NBA Blog

"Also, Evanz’ posts are easiest to hide while working. The chats and graphs can look like actual work related data to the lazy walker-by’s eye" (tafkasam)

"When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind; it may be the beginning of knowledge, but you have scarcely in your thoughts advanced to the state of science." (Lord Kelvin)

by Evanz on Jul 19, 2011 6:53 PM CDT reply actions

Curry

By far.

by metalkiwis on Jul 19, 2011 7:00 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs

That'd be interesting.

Experimenting with Rose at SG.

Did anybody else think that the Bulls logo upside down looks like a robot reading a book on a bench?

by lama1 on Jul 19, 2011 8:25 PM CDT up reply actions

I agree...Curry will be a better fit than Ellis

by sports_aficionado on Jul 20, 2011 11:15 PM CDT up reply actions

Ellis was discussed here about a month or so ago when there were rumors swirling around about him

I believe the general consensus was that, because of his bad defense and selfish nature, he wouldn’t be a good fit and it would be a step in the wrong direction to give up either Deng or Noah to get him. There were those who thought otherwise though.

As for Curry, I’d love to have him next to Rose. But I don’t think the possibility was ever seriously discussed around here because we’re pretty convinced that he’s unobtainable.

Pat Riley is the devil.

by Poloplaya14 on Jul 19, 2011 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions

Definitely Curry

I might give up Noah for Curry (and GS may do that trade as well), though I shudder a bit to think about how a Curry-Rose backcourt would fare defensively. But I second Poloplaya’s comment, since my assumption is that Curry is less available than Ellis.

by bryield on Jul 19, 2011 9:30 PM CDT up reply actions

noah for curry? woah!

some really underestimates what Noah brings to this team.

Walk the talk, Bulls.

by JLbuLL on Jul 21, 2011 11:46 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

First, I said I "might," which means I would at least think about it.

Second, Noah is my favorite player, so there’s no way I underestimate what he brings to the team.

by bryield on Jul 22, 2011 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions

thanks, guys

interesting answers

_______________________________________________________________
The City: A Golden State Warriors-Centric NBA Blog

"Also, Evanz’ posts are easiest to hide while working. The chats and graphs can look like actual work related data to the lazy walker-by’s eye" (tafkasam)

by Evanz on Jul 20, 2011 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions

When i hear some guys talking about bg i know u dont no basketball

Yeah he can score but he gives up just as much points as he scores..lol..Remeber u need someone that can dribble the ball.He’s alot like dang when he starts dribbling they steal it on him.! and hes short also .So why even bring the guy up,Heres ur tops choices listed in order .

1,Mayo
2,J.R smith
3.J-Rich

Unless there gonna trade for someone i dont see anyone else we should go after.

by tazz34 on Jul 19, 2011 11:19 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs

So you want dribbling and defense

And your #3 option is Jason Richardson? Good luck with that.

by tuluse on Jul 20, 2011 1:42 AM CDT up reply actions

But it helps

that he is 6’5", size matters, Ben Gordon has opposing SG screaming “MOUSE IN DA HOUSE”

by Dennis Hopson2 on Jul 20, 2011 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions

Oh it's the old "he gives up just as much points as he scores" bs argument again I see

Ask Dallas how they feel about Jason Terry’s average dribbling and terrible defense when he was hitting all those big shots and winning a championship against the Heat. If you use a player who can score in bunches the correct way, then that type of guy is as valuable a component to winning a ring as having a great defense. By the way, enjoy that great dribbling and defense from JR Smith and Jason Richardson.

Hey Rose. I don't see the appeal!

by Dils on Jul 20, 2011 6:13 AM CDT up reply actions

terry is a significantly better PG than BG.

"Jimmer is going to take one of those crazy 3s, and DeMarcus Cousins is going to come at him like a rhino."

-Basketball Smurf

by TheMoon on Jul 20, 2011 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions 4 recs

Terry's off the

dribble game and overall speed is better than BG.

by Dennis Hopson2 on Jul 20, 2011 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions

Stuckey

If Rodney Stuckey could somehow be had, I would sure as hell rather give up something significant for him than something significant for OJ Mayo. He’s bigger, a better defender, can serve as a backup PG as well as a starting SG (just like Mayo, though neither of them are really much good as point guards), has a much higher PER, and is not nearly as big of a head case. The evidence also suggests that he is still getting better, which is not something that can be said of Mayo. (This is not to say that Mayo could not still improve, but what the evidence seems to indicate at this point is regression.)

by thelivingant on Jul 20, 2011 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions

I'm on the Stuckey bandwagon

I think he hasn’t gotten a fair shake in Detroit, but his resume is weak and it might make the Bulls shy away.

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on Jul 20, 2011 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions

Stuckey can't shoot too well though

but he’d be good to see

Rose decides not to go 1-on-2 and I was thinking, "what are you doing?! You've got the numbers!" -Zach Harper, Daily Dime Live

by Prevenge on Jul 24, 2011 7:25 PM CDT up reply actions

if Ben was a free agent, he would be at the top of my list

Yeah he can score but he gives up just as much points as he scores..lol..

yeah we already have that in Boozer, and we still won 62 games, you can play Gordon and trot out Gibson if you’re that afraid of bleeding points and do just fine.

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on Jul 20, 2011 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions

players who can score who does not give as much points as he does is rare.

better BG than Bogans, btw.

Walk the talk, Bulls.

by JLbuLL on Jul 21, 2011 11:48 PM CDT up reply actions

There is no perfect fit for the Bulls this offseason.

The bulls need the following out of a 2 guard:

1) 3 point shooting
2) Ball Handling
3) Size (yes size counts; i don’t want to see derrick rose checking 2 guards on a regular basis)
4) Defense
5) Shot Creation off the dribble
6) Chemistry/Coachable

In my mind, the options discussed above fall like this:
Mayo – has 1, 2, 5; I’m not sure about the chemistry thing last year; he did however seem very coachable during his failed summer PG trial
Richardson – 1, 3, 6 – good shooter, but no defense or dribbling skills
BG – 1, 6 – unfortunately, BG is still best suited to come off the bench. He still hasn’t grown, still ha s no defense, and still cannot dribble at all
JR smith – has 1, 2, 3, 5 – but is allergic to defense and fights with every coach
Courtney Lee -1 ,3, 4, 6 – will never be more than a role player and doesn’t fix the fact that the Bulls need another playmaker
Afflalo – The Nuggets will match any non-ridiculous offer, so it does not matter.

That being said, I would go with Mayo if he was willing to play his role. The Bulls desperately need another ball handler/shooter/playmaker in the back court and Mayo fits the bill. And, defense is a TEAM game. I trust Coach T can think of some scheme to help cover a Rose/Mayo defense.

Of course, how to get Mayo without breaking up the core is another problem.

by shoryuken on Jul 20, 2011 5:16 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs

For what it's worth

O.J. Mayo has an AST% of 13.4% and TOV% 12.5%, Ben Gordon has an AST% of 16.7% and TOV% of 12.9% for their careers. Yet Mayo has ball handling, and Ben Gordon doesn’t.

Also, Ben Gordon definitely has shot creation off the dibble. Do you not remember how often he isolated with Vinny as the coach?

by tuluse on Jul 20, 2011 10:34 PM CDT up reply actions

BG was awesome at creating a jumpshot for himself of the dribble

I guess what I meant is that he can’t drive the paint (and create for others) off the dribble. I think that is a far more valuable trait.

by shoryuken on Jul 21, 2011 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions

Well at any rate I think you are significantly overrating Mayo

Even his outside shooting isn’t that good. At this point I think I would only give him “7” which is youth and potential. He might become a good player, but he isn’t one now. I’m not sure he is an upgrade over Brewer at anything but outside shooting and he isn’t a good enough shooter to justify that one increase.

by tuluse on Jul 21, 2011 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions