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Sham's Bulls Offseason Plan: Finding the right shooting guard

Sham published one of his usual epic posts before the weekend, meticulously setting up and following through with his hypothetical offseason plan to improve the Bulls.

It involves some guesswork with the Bulls intentions and the new CBA, but what's more certain (and something I wholeheartedly agree with) is his assessment of the Bulls needs:

The most noticeable flaw is related to the shooting guard hole, and was the one roundly exposed by Miami. In their current guise, Chicago has only one ball handler, Derrick Rose. And if you take the ball out of his hands, Chicago has no other options.

Ronnie Brewer cannot dribble, and nor can Keith Bogans. Deng has never been able to do it unless he is playing for the Great British national team. C.J. Watson is a decent backup point guard on both ends of the court, and yet strangely, for a point guard, his handle is not great. You can therefore make a legitimate claim that Chicago's second best ball handler last season was its starting centre, Joakim Noah, the hands-down best player on the planet. But this is not much of a virtue, because unless it's his patented driving lefty layup high off the glass, Joakim is not in a position to do much with his ball handling ability, considering that he is no threat to make a shot from the perimeter.

Miami exposed this flaw by either double teaming Rose, or smothering him with bigger defenders, or both. When forced to give the ball up, Rose either turned it over on the jump-pass (which he does rather a lot), or gave it to someone who was quickly contested and who could do nothing with it. Chicago, therefore, lost its entire halfcourt offense. A Joe Johnson type alleviates this problem.

...

This entire post trusts that you agree with me about this need. If you do not, I implore you to watch the latter three games of the Bulls/Heat series. Even when it was close, it wasn't, because Miami could always turn the screw.

The need for more (and more and more) shooting is also mentioned, and to say 'there's more mentioned' in general is an understatement.

One player is targeted specifically and it may come as a surprise. It's not OJ Mayo (my first choice), who's interestingly dismissed by Sham as being 'unnecessarily prohibitive' to obtain with the blame going to Michael Heisley.

Anyway, check it out.

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Remember, he's British

so “centre” is the proper (propre?) spelling for him. And “maths” is proper grammar.

by torch on Jun 13, 2011 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

I was talking more about he says "both" after listing 3 things - two of which are the same

“All of those players could serve a purpose on the Bulls, some with their offense, some with their defense, some with their offense, a few with both”

and a few other errors of that sort. I’m aware of the British thing and have no problem with it.

A true friend stabs you in the front - Oscar Wilde

by dantheman3k on Jun 13, 2011 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

I hate the British

I get clients down to 5% body fat with ease you fucking idiot. - dakoose

by Trey23 on Jun 13, 2011 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

dude

the palette belongs to the painter
the palate is in the mouth

i wonder what do you think the saying refers to?

but great post :-)

by grillo on Jun 13, 2011 6:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

I did say I love your writing, man.

No harm no foul.

A true friend stabs you in the front - Oscar Wilde

by dantheman3k on Jun 14, 2011 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's an interesting dynamic

because we want to find someone that can play with the ball in their hands, but doesn’t need to have the ball in their hands. It’s a pretty big difference. That’s why I really question whether Ellis would be a good fit. You’d probably have to give it a shot no matter what if you could, but it’s definitely not a slam dunk.

I haven’t had the chance to read Sham’s post yet, but I’m curious why he dismisses Mayo, seeing as there were reports he was ours for the taking if we would’ve given up Taj. I agree with yfbb, that’s the guy that I really like. His defense in the playoffs impressed me, and I think he would excel in the role we need him for. And, unlike Ellis, I don’t think there’s much potential for him to clash with Rose.

Recovering...

by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 13, 2011 12:11 PM CDT reply actions  

Amen, Hallalehuh

I get clients down to 5% body fat with ease you fucking idiot. - dakoose

by Trey23 on Jun 14, 2011 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think I overrate him

I’m pretty aware of what he brings to the table. Nothing wrong with having a “fantastically average” player if he fits the team skill set-wise (which I think he does). More importantly, I just don’t see a much better option out there.

Recovering...

by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 13, 2011 10:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

I would agree with that

Were the price demanded by Memphis not more befitting of an above average player.

If Memphis backs off that, then it might be a go.

Additionally, while it won’t be the case for much longer, Stephen Jackson was still better than O.J. this year.

by Sham-onnnnnnnnnnna on Jun 14, 2011 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

yet they almost traded him for josh mcroberts...

Look
I didn’t want to offend anyone by saying the "f" word or generalizing my statement to any particular sex by saying "gays" or lesbians" or "bi’s" so "homos" is the most "politically correct" term. I’m just trying to be more tact in a tactless blog.

by Hindut Patrol on Feb 15, 2011 2:51 PM EST

by Jaina on Jun 14, 2011 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

Memphis FO and people

Think the Grizz were nuts for not trading him to the Bulls for Ronnie Brewer, 2 first rounders, and a second rounder, according to my roommate. That had the media people scratching their head.

"truTV is like BET for white folks." - Chuck

by macjack09 on Jun 14, 2011 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

yeah i heard that was the bulls offer

if they reject that, well fuck it man.

Look
I didn’t want to offend anyone by saying the "f" word or generalizing my statement to any particular sex by saying "gays" or lesbians" or "bi’s" so "homos" is the most "politically correct" term. I’m just trying to be more tact in a tactless blog.

by Hindut Patrol on Feb 15, 2011 2:51 PM EST

by Jaina on Jun 14, 2011 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't understand how Sham

can point out all of Reindorf’s foibles and then end his piece with this:

Does that team beat Miami?

No, probably not. But such is the position the new CBA will put us in.

Pretty much rendering all of his idea as fantasy. Why would JR take on so much salary for a team that “probably” won’t beat Miami especially when he pointed out himself JR imposes his own rules, his own cap on the team?

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on Jun 13, 2011 12:13 PM CDT reply actions  

Because Wade could easily sprain an ankle.

Or Bosh could hurt himself the next time he flops. Or LeBron could take a year off under the orders of a sports psychologist. It wouldn’t take much for the Bulls to be in a position to beat Miami.

“Probably not,” is much different than a simple “No,” which is what we were looking at the last decade. At least now we’re in the group of teams that could win if things break the right way. That’s why you take on so much salary.

by Grinder in Training on Jun 13, 2011 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Some players and coaches on the Bulls will get better, due to age and inexperience playing together.

That might be enough to get them past the Heat. That fact alone is comforting, and should make it clear that the Bulls need only a small upgrade, and have the assets to do this. SJax for that trade would be a good trade-up, IMHO.

by cubbybear on Jun 13, 2011 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

The team is already constructed to "probably not" beat the Heat

Does anyone think a full strength Bulls team can’t already beat a Wade-less Heat?

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on Jun 13, 2011 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

You have to ask if that's a priority

I don’t think it is. I think Reinsdorf is happy with a team that can go deep into the playoffs for extra revenue.

[...]when Giants coach Steve Owen, a certified defensive genius, was asked how he planned to stop Nagurski, he said: "With a shotgun, as he’s leaving the dressing room."

by NobodySpecial on Jun 14, 2011 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't.

The Bulls haven’t lied about this. They said they’d pay for a winner. We never previously had a winner. We now have a winner. They will now pay.

(If they can.)

by Sham-onnnnnnnnnnna on Jun 14, 2011 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

I like the qualilfier...

As the new CBA very well could preclude them from paying (much like the last work stoppage prevented them from paying).

7 for 7.

by Dionysus2.0 on Jun 14, 2011 8:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

you LIKE the qualifier?

I mean you could like its accuracy, but not like that it exists.

Anywho, Sham is more trusting than me, apparently, as the moving goalposts of ‘paying for a winner’ aside, just because they said they would doesn’t mean they will.

And, being willing to pay to MAKE a winner would’ve been even better, so Gar Paxdorf can still bite it.

BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 14, 2011 9:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Did the Bulls every really miss out on building a winner by not spending money?

It seems talent evaluation played a larger roll in not making a winner.

I mean they did go get Ben Wallace when it seemed like the Bulls were on the verge of getting really good.

by tuluse on Jun 14, 2011 9:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

I like sjack way better than mayo or jr

id still be happy wit mayo tho

Woooooooooooooot!!

by Belize on Jun 13, 2011 12:21 PM CDT reply actions  

I am ging to write something where the Bulls somehow acquire the 8th pick (for Alec Burks)

and SJax from Charlotte. It will not be epic. It will still be awesome because it will be right.

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on Jun 13, 2011 12:32 PM CDT reply actions  

I'd rather have Action Jackson too.

Because Carl Weathers has more awesome than everyone else.

How does one practice consistency? Take lots of Benefiber?
by WearShades on May 31, 2011 6:37 AM PDT

by Dr. Handsome, D.D.S. on Jun 13, 2011 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I'm guessing the 2011 Bulls (or 2012 for the lockout inclined) look a lot like 2010

I think they’ll replace Bogans, but with someone a lot like Bogans. I’m guessing Anthony Parker or Rasual Butler is the starting SG next season. Whenever that is.

by hitlesswonder on Jun 13, 2011 1:05 PM CDT reply actions  

That's depressing, and unlikely.

Unless they trade Brewer, I think he will start next year. If he is traded, it will be for a better SG.

by cubbybear on Jun 13, 2011 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Jamal Crawford

Is more like Terry…still can’t believe he hit that shot over jameer nelson damn…

'Don't believe in you who believe in me and don't believe in me who believes in you, but believe in you who believe in yourself'

by T.Moore on Jun 13, 2011 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

This is true.

But Jr Smith is much younger, can hopefully become a decent defender, and will be much cheaper.

never forget...
1.7%
anything is possible...

by wrigleyrocker12 on Jun 13, 2011 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Amen #2

I like his moxie. He’s just crazy enough to piss in Lebron’s eye and then get a tattoo at halftime to celebrate. That just might be what we need. Since Karl’s staying it seems, and he and Karl don’t get along, he might be easy to get.

by cubbybear on Jun 13, 2011 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

JR's won't fit the system

All the problems he had w/ shot selection playing next to Melo will continue with the Bulls. He also doesn’t seem very good w/ defensive minded coaches. He was the odd man out after the Melo trade b/c he wasn’t playing in the system. Cheating for the steal and leaking out for dunks don’t fit Thibs system. All the time he was benched by Karl he got fined for sulking on the bench. Doesn’t seem like one of Jerry’s types.

by JJCMHS23 on Jun 13, 2011 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Karl always had a personal disguist with him

If you ask most of the Denver fans, JR can be coached, but Karl just preferred to not do it. Plus, Melo wasn’t exactly the object of leadership and a high character guy himself. He was the odd man out, he was always the first guy off the bench and played many minutes down the stretch.

Read some of the things they have to say about Karl at Denver Stiffs

We find inexplicable ways to lose games come playoff time with Karl at the helm. We suddenly go away from everything that made us successful in the regular season, players blow up, nobody ever seems to show up with great performances, we always underachieve, and on and on.

George Karl is a one trick pony
he is a poor mans Mike D’Antoni on offense, and a poor mans Thibodeau in defensive schemes, although that might be giving him too much credit.

I’m more pissed the way these playoffs are panning out

If Karl just placed his best players on the floor in most of the playoffs (like he did in game 4 until he almost sabotaged it with Felton/Lawson), we would be playing Memphis and the Mavs. They don’t match up well with Felton/Lawson and we would probably have made it to the NBA finals. Alas, because poor George doesn’t know how to adjust most of our good players who realize this will leave as soon as possible.

. Just more corroboration to the fact that George Karl is a completely inept playoff coach that will never satisfy our needs as fans come April/May/God forbid — June. Three-year contract extension my bootay!

If Karl was coaching the Grizz
He would make some excuse about not having Gay after their Game 1 loss. He would also manage to put Vazquez and Conley in at the same time and somehow find a way to not play Gasol or Randolph near the end of the 4th.

If Karl had the Grizz There’s no way in hell they even make it past the Spurs.

As you can see……Karl doesn’t exactly have a lot of supporters in Denver other than the FO.

"truTV is like BET for white folks." - Chuck

by macjack09 on Jun 13, 2011 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Take it how you want it

And I never said that reinforces my argument. But what isn’t opinionated is that Karl tends to let his personal feelings for players reach the media (he has thrown JR, Melo, Nene, and Iverson under a bus numerous times). And it is also well known that him and JR have never gotten along. I’m just saying if I had a coach that I never got along with and always seemed to bump heads with, I may not put my heart in my play either.

And I think the way that Thibs commands respect combined with Rose’s humility and leadership (that is in my opinion, much better than Melo’s and Iverson’s put together x 2) could have a massive effect on JR in a good way.

And maybe they are just a bunch of ranting bloggers, but still, if the support for him is that bad…..that’s gotta stand for something.

"truTV is like BET for white folks." - Chuck

by macjack09 on Jun 13, 2011 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

JR isn't a high "character" guy

Bulls like high character guys. I’m not saying that JR can’t ball or gives his best. He has lit the Bulls up for years, especially the Ben Gordon years where they battled on each possession. If Gar/Pax didn’t blow up the team at the trade deadline b/c of Chemistry I doubt that they would bring in a guy they got rid of once and has a perceived attitude. I noticed the blog posts didn’t even mention the shot selection problems w/ JR. He does the wrong things in crunch time and in thibs system I can see him getting Boozer’s minutes in the 4th quarter.

by JJCMHS23 on Jun 13, 2011 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Kind of a redundant statement

I mean its pretty obvious, but that’s for the most part how sports work.

But what matters more than the contempt of the fans on Karl is Karl’s effectiveness. While true he has won 59% of his games, look at the quality of his postseason runs with Denver. Only 1 time out of 7 years he has made it past the first round. And like I said, its pretty well known that he didn’t always have the respect of his players.

Listen, I have nothing against Karl. I’m impartial when it comes down to him, I just think from what I’ve seen from Thibs in how he helped keep Rondo and KG in check and how he was able to command respect and attention from our players so quick combined with Rose, Noah, and Deng’s leadership that we could do what the Nuggets could not.

"truTV is like BET for white folks." - Chuck

by macjack09 on Jun 13, 2011 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

You're giving Thibs credit for keeping Garnett and Rondo in check?

That’s really weird. Giving credit to an assistant coach for keeping guys in line is a little ridiculous unless you have some great inside knowledge into the Boston locker room. And comparing Garnett and Rondo to J.R. Smith is beyond strange.

by Scotter on Jun 13, 2011 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

You’re giving Thibs credit for keeping Garnett and Rondo in check?

I said helped. And maybe he didn’t exactly sit down and drink coffee with them everyday, but considering the fact that Tom was the head coach during the time when Doc Rivers was dealing with the death of his father, I can be more than sure that day in day out he said more than just “Hello” and “Goodbye” to them.

"truTV is like BET for white folks." - Chuck

by macjack09 on Jun 13, 2011 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm saying

I believe Rose and Thibs can check his immaturity. I can’t be anymore black and white about that. Does JR have issues? Obviously. You won’t see me dispute that. But I think immaturity is easier to solve than if he were per se selfish or an asshole which he isn’t because Lawson, Melo, Martin, and Andersen have all had good things to say about him as a teammate.

If he can harness his talent and check his immaturity, the sky is the limit for him. Is that better?

"truTV is like BET for white folks." - Chuck

by macjack09 on Jun 13, 2011 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

i think my fear with a guy like jr smith is

u bring in a guy that has ‘behavioral issues’ when your team is established. when you have a system everyone believes in, a clear number 1, a clear leader, and a clear singular voice. a team like the lakers with phil jackson and kobe at the helm, lots of veterans who have been in that system or a similar one, yea…that team can handle crazyness.

THe late 90 bulls, who had the two of the 5 best players in the nba at the time, who had won multiple championships together…they could handle crazy.

hell the miami heat, with 2 of the top 10 players in the nba right now and established leadership and an owner who could kill you with a look…..they can probably handle crazy

but a young bulls team, with a second year coach, with a player who is just now realizing he truly should be the number 1 option on the team, and has recently just broken the superstar barrier. A player who just learned to yell at a guy like luol deng during games, and a high paid big man who has trouble of staying healthy or playing defense and has yet to go through a full season with this team…

no….
i dont think this team is ready for crazy…i think that the skiles 06 bulls were far more mature than this team is, and that team fell apart due to ben freakin wallace, and he was nowhere near as big a problem as jr smith is considered to be…

I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!

by piccolomair on Jun 14, 2011 3:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

the problem is Ben Wallace was supposed to be the default leader of that team

he was the high priced free agent joining a bunch of young guys. there was no true “leader” of those Skiles teams, other than maybe Skiles himself. and once Wallace and Skiles butted heads (not to mention the trade rumors and contract situations), that was it, the whole thing crumbled.

i think this current Bulls team is the more mature one, and i can’t see JR causing too much of a ruckus. for one thing, he won’t be paid like a star, but he’ll also be a joining an established team that’s been together, and he’ll be the one having to prove himself to them. i don’t know or care about George Karl’s history, but Thibs seems pretty damn good at connecting with his players, even if he is a weirdo. if JR is a problem, they’ll bench him or send him home. obviously that would be a poor way to spend money, but the team isn’t going to crumble as a result of bringing in JR Smith. being around a bunch of serious players with title aspirations could be good for him.

that said, he wouldn’t be my first choice. but i don’t think he’s this fearsome cancer that would destroy the team.

by M 80 on Jun 14, 2011 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Denver fans excuse JR just as much as Bulls fans do, it seems

Everyone is going to wait for the light to come on with JR until either the day it does, or the day it retires. But he has been in the NBA for 7 years now and it is no nearer to coming on. He is halfway through his career. The potential is not going to be realised much more than this.

by Sham-onnnnnnnnnnna on Jun 13, 2011 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

And maybe George Karl has mishandled the whole JR thing

But seemingly so has everyone. JR seems so uncoachable that Karl won’t do it, Byron Scott couldn’t do it, and Scott Skiles wouldn’t try. The evidence as outsiders is rather emphatic – JR doesn’t seem to get it and doesn’t seem to want it. I think we only choose to ignore those things because he’s torched us for 40 before and is only 25.

by Sham-onnnnnnnnnnna on Jun 13, 2011 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oops.

Meant to say, I could imagine someone picking off anti-Thibs posts during the dark days and get a similar impression.

by Brooklyn Bulls on Jun 14, 2011 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

if he actually did that

I’d buy his jersey and never take it off

by SidM on Jun 14, 2011 7:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

not sure if "positivity" and player "leadership" would help, but a more hard-assed, structured

coach might. JR has a bit of a behavior/attitude problem and Karl is a hands-off, players coach: ive never heard of an educational philosophy that suggested those two things were a good combination.

"if Jonny [Flynn] loved playin competeant basketball az much az he loves de movie Salt
he might be ok."

- MAYNHOLUP

by TheMoon on Jun 13, 2011 8:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

What do yall think about gordon hayward as our shooting guard?

I like his game, and think he can become a real good player in this league.

by Slick Ric on Jun 13, 2011 1:59 PM CDT reply actions  

Isn't it funny how lebron virtually lost to the cavs this year.

I mean Dallas only has one great payer but a bunch of good players who some would think are not good enough to win it all with and yet the supposedly best player could not do it. Lebron has absolutely no excuses now. dallas played great team ball and the bulls have certain games where they play that way but not consistently. Im adding gordon hayward to the list of potential SG’s for bulls because I think he is going to be a very good player.

by Slick Ric on Jun 13, 2011 2:07 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

he's a very good shooter in 2k11 lol

that’s my only comment on him :))

Walk the talk, Bulls.

by JLbuLL on Jun 13, 2011 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't know

Delonte West and Mo Williams can approximate Barea and Jason Terry.

What they were really missing was Tyson Chandler in the middle and an offensive plan other than stand around and watch Lebron.

by tuluse on Jun 13, 2011 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Varajeo is maybe slightly crappier than Chandler

the offensive plan really really hurt them. they were also missing solid vets like Kidd and Marion.

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on Jun 13, 2011 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

dude... no.

Every member of the Mavs supporting cast is better than the Cavs.

Haywood and Chandler are better centers than Cleveland ever had.
Jason Terry is a better 6th man than anyone Cleveland had coming off the bench.
Delonte West and Mo Williams combined don’t help out an offense or defense the way Jason Kidd does.

A true friend stabs you in the front - Oscar Wilde

by dantheman3k on Jun 13, 2011 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not saying they were as good as the Mavs

I just don’t think the ability to make shots was the problem with the Cavs.

by tuluse on Jun 13, 2011 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

well

mo williams was thought to be their big 2nd option, able to provide offensive punch and create for himself, and he couldn’t really deliver in the playoffs, while jason terry did pretty much that.

by grillo on Jun 13, 2011 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

True but this isn't dirks first rodeo

he has been in that situation just as much as Lebron and what is his excuse now for not winning…his teammates?

by Slick Ric on Jun 13, 2011 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

What a great post by Sham.

It really depends on the requests by the trade partners, but they can’t have a 12M/year player without giving up a big-salaried player (likely Deng) if their trade partner is above the cap. It therefore makes sense that Afflalo, SJax, Mayo and JR are the best options. I actually prefer JR right now, but SJax might be the best way to make it work.

by cubbybear on Jun 13, 2011 2:28 PM CDT reply actions  

If we'd have had Cap'n Jack, we'd have been in the finals.

News flash: Luol Deng is good...We now return you to your regularly scheduled hating...

by kingles on Jun 13, 2011 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

no doubt

I get clients down to 5% body fat with ease you fucking idiot. - dakoose

by Trey23 on Jun 13, 2011 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

This is the crux of it, really.

The biggest risk is whether he will fall off a cliff over the next two year. 14 years of tread on those tires.

by Sham-onnnnnnnnnnna on Jun 13, 2011 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

This is why I wanted the Bulls to get him during the season.

I figured time was of the essense with him, as opposed to somebody like Mayo who’s best days are presumably still to come. I still think Jackson has a couple good seasons left, but only time will tell.

News flash: Luol Deng is good...We now return you to your regularly scheduled hating...

by kingles on Jun 13, 2011 7:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

I once didn't want Jordan Crawford here

But thought about it he would be perfect off the bench with Ronnie starting

'Don't believe in you who believe in me and don't believe in me who believes in you, but believe in you who believe in yourself'

by T.Moore on Jun 13, 2011 2:34 PM CDT reply actions  

Jamal*

'Don't believe in you who believe in me and don't believe in me who believes in you, but believe in you who believe in yourself'

by T.Moore on Jun 13, 2011 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Mark and I were going back and forth on this but he seems to think need to hedge some when considering their assets and the uncertainty of the next CBA.

I can’t say I’m fully on board with it even though Mayo is my top choice. If you have a chance to get Iggy or any high salaried player while under the current rules, you should take advantage of it. I believe amnesty and contracts being grandfathered in are real possibilities if were talking about a hard cap.

Mayo would be ideal cause he’s everything I’d want from our next two guard buy if Jerry wants to open up his wallet, do it while u still can

by Option27 on Jun 13, 2011 2:59 PM CDT via mobile reply actions  

Hedging..

Wouldn’t it be assumed the Bulls will already know the ramifications of the new CBA before they make any moves? Or do I have the time-line wrong?

by Grinder in Training on Jun 13, 2011 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Cowherd kept stating on his radio show

That we are too trapped financially to really make any moves for a two guard. Is that true?

"truTV is like BET for white folks." - Chuck

by macjack09 on Jun 13, 2011 3:02 PM CDT reply actions  

We're cash strapped..

But we have plenty of moveable parts, and draft picks.
Brewer, Korver, Asik, Gibson, our many draft picks, all have value in the league. So even if the new CBA basically caps us out, something can be done.

by Grinder in Training on Jun 13, 2011 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

HOW THE HELL ARE THE BULLS CASH-STRAPPED?!?!

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on Jun 13, 2011 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Clearly I meant by the rules of the CBA..

I think we all know the Bulls are raking in the cash hand over fist, I didn’t think it needed to be clarified.

by Grinder in Training on Jun 14, 2011 8:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

The Mavericks and Lakers aren't cash-strapped.

Why are the Bulls?

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on Jun 14, 2011 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think there should be nuance and recognition of the fact that it's the Bulls own imposition.

They aren’t cash-strapped, and they aren’t cap-strapped. It’s foolish and ignorant to think that they’ll set some hard cap that every team must be under by the start of the season. The players will NEVER agree to that. I don’t think they will go to a hard cap (I’m only mildly behind that opinion) but if they do, it will be phased in over a few years.

And as you mentioned, at that point, the Bulls have plenty of tradeable assets. Further, God forbid they do go to a hard cap, the Bulls would still have room to maneuver.

Saying they are cash or cap strapped is an excuse of the Bulls front office in favor of flexibility. Don’t forget that Jerry Reinsdorf is one of the leaders of the owners in negotiations, and he’ll have to present the situation as dire as possible.

And then I hate that you always toe (tow?) the company line.

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on Jun 14, 2011 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't always toe the company line..

I think it was completely unacceptable to ever go into a season where you’re competing for a championship with Keith Bogans as your starting SG. It was even worse to finish the season that way when it became clear the Bulls could win this year.
 
It was epically poor management, and if I was the owner, Gar or Paxson would have been fired, regardless how well other things worked out. There’s just no way we couldn’t have made some of kind of move to get Rose help at the two guard spot. The lack of creativity is unacceptable for a big market team. You find a way to make it work if your the Bulls.

At the same time, I can recognize the fact that Boozer, Deng and Noah (and Rose soon) will all have large contracts going forward, and with a hard cap, we won’t be out there signing guys like Joe Johnson. It will require a trade of assets to get someone decent.

I call that cap strapped when we’re required to make a creative move to pick up a legitimate SG other than just giving him money. That to me means the cap is directly effecting us, and putting us in a position where we need to lose assets to gain something. That to me is the definition of cap strapped.

That’s different than saying we’re unable to do anything at all. But we’re still clearly going to be constricted on what we do, based on who wants our assets, and how they value them.

by Grinder in Training on Jun 14, 2011 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

If you were the owner

you obviously wouldn’t have been okay with Bogans starting.

Reinsdorf is.

[...]when Giants coach Steve Owen, a certified defensive genius, was asked how he planned to stop Nagurski, he said: "With a shotgun, as he’s leaving the dressing room."

by NobodySpecial on Jun 14, 2011 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes... Obviously.

That’s the whole point of my long ass post. I don’t always agree with Reinsdorf.

by Grinder in Training on Jun 15, 2011 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

You have pretty much nailed it.

There will be a lockout.


It’s foolish and ignorant to think that they’ll set some hard cap that every team must be under by the start of the season. The players will NEVER agree to that.

I expect the owners will absolutely push for a hard cap in conjunction with a roll-back of player’s current salaries, and I expect that you are right, the players will not go for it.

Not going to be a fun summer.

7 for 7.

by Dionysus2.0 on Jun 14, 2011 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

True., good point.

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on Jun 15, 2011 7:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

Bulls are so definitely not cash strapped.

They were almost at the salary line which meant they couldn’t sign any players outright in 2010. I’ve read the “hard cap” would be right this salary threshold, so if the Bulls were able to construct a team under this threshold AND have 3 million left over without being forced to they’ll be just fine. The way there contracts are set up, they can cut a few players and play Rose when he is up for a new contract.

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on Jun 13, 2011 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

We're not cash strapped. We're cap strapped.

As explained in my post, it is perhaps safe to assume that the Bulls now have the calibre of team with which they will want to spend above and beyond, despite all the years of not doing so. But this unfortunately coincides with the CBA fallout, which it appears is going to prevent them from doing so.

The compromise lies in the fact that it appears the new regulations will be phased in slowly, allowing for the acquisition of large salary in the short term. Ergo, Jackson, who expires in 2013.

by Sham-onnnnnnnnnnna on Jun 13, 2011 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well I agree we are not cash strapped.

and I would also like to point out Colin Cowherd is a cancer to sports punditry.

That being said, I think the Bulls go cheap and wait for buyouts rather than absorb high salaries. Although, from my armchair GM perspective, I would do the Jackson deal in a heartbeat. Especially if the Bulls only give up Bogans/Brewer/28th pick.

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on Jun 13, 2011 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

"wait for buyouts rather than absorb high salaries"

Or both. Make one large-ish move, then cherry pick the rest.

by Sham-onnnnnnnnnnna on Jun 13, 2011 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Are you kidding me here?

I can’t believe more than one person didn’t know what I meant. Of course we’re not cash strapped. I clearly meant due to the rules of the CBA. That’s a given. We all know how profitable the Bulls are, it’s mentioned here on a daily basis.

by Grinder in Training on Jun 14, 2011 8:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

its ok guy, it happens.

its more JR’s fault for being such a cheapsake, that combo cash strapped and Reinsdorf are like oil and water.

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on Jun 14, 2011 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not really misrable

Boring yes. But that’ll change once my child is born in the next month or so. I just don’t understand the NBA salary cap rules or how it works…….I’m not good with money.

"truTV is like BET for white folks." - Chuck

by macjack09 on Jun 13, 2011 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

There are two limits

Limit one is called the salary cap. Up two this limit you can sign any player who agrees to for any price up to the max deal.

Once you reach that limit, then you can only sign your own players, plus one guy at a mid level exception (which is around 5 million), and minimum salary guys.

Eventually, you reach another level called the luxury tax. At this level for every dollar you spend over that limit you have to give a dollar to a fund which gets split among all NBA teams below the luxury tax.

There are a few other tricks, but that’s the basics.

by tuluse on Jun 13, 2011 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

the knicks have an opening

follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com

by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 13, 2011 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Cowherd is the guy who took The Heat in 6 because

“Vegas has them winning it all and Vegas knows, man.”

He’s a complete joke. I only listen to him to hear him defend completely ridiculous conclusions about the NBA such as “LeBron is the best player in the NBA even though he didn’t play like it.” Which is an actual argument I heard on his show.

I don’t think he knows much about salary structure.

by Doc Heff on Jun 14, 2011 12:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Neither. I've been pretty impressed with Bosh as the season progressed.

I’d do that trade, although I’m pretty sure Miami would not.

"If the Bulls are healthy it could get ugly." - Joakim Noah

by bryield on Jun 13, 2011 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Well stupid from either end.

If Miami wouldn’t do it, then it’s no good. Just reading from a lot of different places they would consider moving Bosh. Boozer makes a bit less (couple million I believe), so that might be one reason to do it on their end.
Guess though, even if they liked the trade, no reason for the Heat to make their biggest competitor better.

by Grinder in Training on Jun 13, 2011 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Why trade Asik and Boozer for Bosh

why make Miami potentially better?

"Word of advice, don’t join, Bears fans are crazy."--- D-Jackfan10

by ThorCo on Jun 14, 2011 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

depends how sick people are of boozer i guess

does a bosh/noah frontcourt beat a boozer/asik frontcourt?

by SidM on Jun 14, 2011 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm more thinking along the lines of Asik grabbing every rebound

while Wade and Lebron race to half court and get a majority of points in transition…I just hope GarPax isn’t that sick of Boozer yet haha

"Word of advice, don’t join, Bears fans are crazy."--- D-Jackfan10

by ThorCo on Jun 14, 2011 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Because

Miami needs more players who make facial expressions that piss people off.

DEJESUS!!!

by tomas21 on Jun 13, 2011 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

I really like the idea of getting Jackson.

But I’m skeptical that Charlotte would make the deal as proposed.

"If the Bulls are healthy it could get ugly." - Joakim Noah

by bryield on Jun 13, 2011 3:08 PM CDT reply actions  

there were rumors the Bulls could have got him for basically nothing at the deadline

they were trying to give him away before they ended up trading Wallace. With Wallace gone, the plan can’t be to win now.

by Basketball Smurf on Jun 13, 2011 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, I stand corrected then.

Of the available options, dealing for Jackson makes sense because it allows the Bulls to maintain their depth.

"If the Bulls are healthy it could get ugly." - Joakim Noah

by bryield on Jun 13, 2011 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

As much as I dont like his contract im starting to consider Bg again

the bulls are not going to surprise me and go and and make a big move by getting ellis, so I think BG is the next best move. we all know bg, can score, shoot, and come up big in clutch moments. maybe he would be rejuvenated by joining the franchise again.

by Slick Ric on Jun 13, 2011 3:10 PM CDT reply actions  

Certainly seems like a stretch to think he'll be rejuvenated.

That’s a lot of hope banked on a guy making that much money. Especially one who forces D. Rose to guard SG’s.

by Grinder in Training on Jun 13, 2011 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

True

And honestly, if anyone has a problem with Rose guarding SG’s, why the fuck would you want Ellis? His D might be the worst of any starting player in the NBA. Heck, Boozer might be a better defender.

Gosh, if we could swing a Gordon trade without giving up Brewer, that would be awesome.

"Mental toughness is to physical as four is to one." - Bob Knight

by DRose01 on Jun 13, 2011 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

stop that dude

his D is not the worst of any starter in the league. smh

by Slick Ric on Jun 13, 2011 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

so who's worse, then?

Look
I didn’t want to offend anyone by saying the "f" word or generalizing my statement to any particular sex by saying "gays" or lesbians" or "bi’s" so "homos" is the most "politically correct" term. I’m just trying to be more tact in a tactless blog.

by Hindut Patrol on Feb 15, 2011 2:51 PM EST

by Jaina on Jun 13, 2011 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

who cares,

Its not gonna be the bulls problem.

by Slick Ric on Jun 13, 2011 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

look it is plenty of guys

like the one he plays next to in S.curry, Nash, Boozer and a bunch of others but it doesn’t matter.

by Slick Ric on Jun 13, 2011 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Detroit's payroll is $10mil more than the Bulls...

Yeah, I think Detroit could use the $avings. I have no problem if the Bulls decide that they are not above taking advantage of the poor Pistons plight.

News flash: Luol Deng is good...We now return you to your regularly scheduled hating...

by kingles on Jun 13, 2011 7:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think the 1st round pick would be needed.

News flash: Luol Deng is good...We now return you to your regularly scheduled hating...

by kingles on Jun 13, 2011 7:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

truth be told, he probably gives the bulls more options offensively than anyone we can legitimately get right now

he is probably the best shooter out of all these guys so that will allow better spacing and ball movement. his ball-handling can be sloppy at times but he is still good enough to allow Rose to play of the ball a little more.his scoring is unquestioned and we have all witnessed his clutchness. thibs may have to steal some of carlisle game plan and implement the zone a lil’ bit though.

by Slick Ric on Jun 13, 2011 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Gordon's workout habits

are well known. Normally i’d be leery of assuming a player is better than he’s been for the past 2 years, but he was injured for much of one of those years and tragically under-utilized in another one.

There’s no reason to think he can’t score like he always has.

by runningman on Jun 13, 2011 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hmmm

S-Jax is interesting. It’s worth noting though that Charlotte was better defensively with him off the court. It’s been true the past two years, but could just be a product of him being on the court when the best opposing SG was on the floor. He is ok in isolation and an ok spot up shooter. The biggest problem with Jackson for me is his APM. His one year APM puts him just barely a step ahead of Kwame Brown. His 2 year APM puts him between DJ Augustin and Tyrus Thomas in terms of value.

I have a hard time wanting players who are already older. I still think the best bet is to get someone on the younger side. That way, if the Bulls miss out on a championship over the course of the next few years, they still have younger pieces to work around while Miami is on the decline.

"Mental toughness is to physical as four is to one." - Bob Knight

by DRose01 on Jun 13, 2011 3:28 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

Tops on my list

1) JR Smith
2) OJ Mayo
3) Iggy

"Mental toughness is to physical as four is to one." - Bob Knight

by DRose01 on Jun 13, 2011 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

i dont see how you can have Mayo ahead of Iggy,

I get clients down to 5% body fat with ease you fucking idiot. - dakoose

by Trey23 on Jun 13, 2011 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

A counter-argument:

Champions win with a mix of veteran savvy and youth. We’ve got youth already in key rotation spots (Noah, Rose, Deng, Brewer, Asik, Taj). What we need is some more veteran savvy, the type of grittiness that you get only when (a) you’ve been there before and (b) you don’t know if you’ll ever get back again. Stephen Jesse Jackson is at that prime point in his career where he hasn’t quite fallen off a cliff yet but knows the end is near (kind of like Terry, Dirk, Pierce, Kobe, etc.). If you can get that veteran-iness from a guy who will be a worthwhile starter, rather than fill-in guys (i.e., Bogans, Big Sexy), that’s key. S-Jax knows what it’s like to win the champeenship, playing a key role on the 2003 Spurs team. And he hasn’t been on a good team since the Pacers team that imploded after the Melee, yet he’s still played his heart out, and helped will lesser teams to the playoffs. He’s hungry, he’s better than anybody else reasonably available (except maybe Mayo, although Mayo’s still young and unproven), and he might be exactly the type of secondary, veteran leader to help get the Bulls over the hump.

(Plus, the rest of his contract is pretty short, as Sham points out, so it’s not like a long-term investment.)

by arjoseph on Jun 13, 2011 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

And...

He already has a ring…so, there is that as well…he knows how to do it or something.

7 for 7.

by Dionysus2.0 on Jun 13, 2011 8:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Stephen Jackson seems like one of the worst options.

The guy has been the definition of high volume/low efficiency scorer throughout his career. A few memories of clutch shots years ago shouldn’t erase that. His passing ability while an asset is mitigated by being turnover prone, and Jackson’s defense is not what it was against smaller players. If Jackson qualifies as an answer then the Bulls might as well see if the Lakers will dump Ron Artest to get out of his contract while they’re at it.

by Scotter on Jun 13, 2011 4:20 PM CDT reply actions  

Do you think the Bulls could get both?

They would have a legit Madhouse on Madison!

7 for 7.

by Dionysus2.0 on Jun 13, 2011 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

i kinda agree

i want to see the super stats re: sjax vs dwade. i don’t think he can guard wade like bogans/brewer.

♫ i've entered a snake of pits with knives in the back of me ♫ can't call you or on you no more when they're attacking me ♫

by marionette on Jun 14, 2011 12:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

My list of shooting gaurd options via trade or FA in ranked order

1) OJ Mayo
2) Arron Afflalo
3) Stephen Jackson
4) Jason Richardson
5) JR Smith
6) Nick Young
7) Ben Gordon

Point Gaurd options in FA and in the process trade C.J. Watson
1) Jose Barea
2) Aaron Brooks
2) Goran Dragic

Dont like Jamal Crawford, Marcus Thornton, Nolan Smith, or any other gaurd in the draft for that matter where the Bulls are picking.

by MCREW on Jun 13, 2011 4:48 PM CDT reply actions  

I don't see that at all

I think everyone’s been dismissing Jason Richardson for no good reason. In addition to shooting right at 40% from 3 point range for the last 4 years, he plays above the rim, scores efficiently, and can be asked to guard any NBA 2 guard, unlike BG.

by runningman on Jun 13, 2011 6:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

I watched a lot of Richardson the past two years

1) He no longer plays above the rim
2) He can’t really be asked to guard anyone

Furthermore, most of his ball-handling skills have left him. He’s pretty much just a spot up shooter.

Just look how his numbers dropped when he didn’t have Nash creating shots for him, especially in the playoffs.

by tuluse on Jun 13, 2011 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Worse still, he's a spot up shooter who won't get open and who can't shoot off screens

He’d help this team, but his rep will create a prohibitive cost. So it’s a non-starter.

by Sham-onnnnnnnnnnna on Jun 13, 2011 7:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

+1

[only built for cuban linx]

by Mighty Healthy on Jun 13, 2011 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Don't be so wrong. It sucks.

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on Jun 14, 2011 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

No mention of Delonte West...

And you hate former Bulls Jamal Crawford and Kirk Hinrich, but somehow love Ben Gordon…

7 for 7.

by Dionysus2.0 on Jun 13, 2011 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Really great post by Sham

I think he is dead on about SJax not being the difference maker to beat the heat. He makes the team significantly better. We are ten points and a few defensive stops away from beating the heat. I think those ten points need to come from a combination of Boozer, Noah, and the SG(Sjax)
I actually like the idea of Nolan Smith too. I saw a few of his games in person. The Bulls love Dukies and he is a poised unphased type of player. His wingspan is ridiculous and he’s got better court vision than advertised. He reminds me alot of JWill without the leaping ability and second gear to the basket. He’s got a real nice midrange game though.

With that said I still have Mayo at the top of the list due to his youth. We would resemble the Piston Badboys with tough interior defense and scoring guards.
I also want to see Michael Redd get a work out. I would love to have a true shooter come off the bench. I think he could be the veteran presence to chase a ring.

by JJCMHS23 on Jun 13, 2011 5:15 PM CDT reply actions  

So he doesnt think we can beat the Heat next season?

Is he smoking crack? The Heat are a fraud.

1) JR Smith
2) Affalo
3) Captain Jack
4) Wilson Chandler
5) Barbosa
6) Sasha “The Machine” Vujacic

I get clients down to 5% body fat with ease you fucking idiot. - dakoose

by Trey23 on Jun 13, 2011 5:34 PM CDT reply actions  

The fraud beat the Bulls 4-1.

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on Jun 13, 2011 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

The fraud barely beat the Bulls in three of those games,

and did so by doing things they normally don’t do. Lebron and Wade hit threes that in 9/10 series they miss, and those were the difference. I thought the Heat were the clear better team after the series, but after seeing the Finals I’m convinced that if the series were played again the Bulls could very well come out on top.

As for next season, I fully expect Rose, Noah, Taj and Omer to be better, as well as a roster move or two. I don’t see Lebron, Wade or Bosh getting better; they’ve been the same guys for a few years now.

by dakoose on Jun 13, 2011 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Right, 26 year olds don't get better. Especiallyguys with flaws in their games.

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on Jun 13, 2011 8:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Only way he'll improve

is if he ever eats some humble pie, and not play like a pussy at the biggest stage (but its possible that he can improve in that area) but after 8 years he doesn’t get it and i doubt that he will.

'Don't believe in you who believe in me and don't believe in me who believes in you, but believe in you who believe in yourself'

by T.Moore on Jun 13, 2011 9:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

You mean the same flaws he hasn't fixed after 8 seasons in the league?

How does one practice consistency? Take lots of Benefiber?
by WearShades on May 31, 2011 6:37 AM PDT

by Dr. Handsome, D.D.S. on Jun 13, 2011 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yep. I think he'll get a post game.

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on Jun 13, 2011 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

why do you think that?

"if Jonny [Flynn] loved playin competeant basketball az much az he loves de movie Salt
he might be ok."

- MAYNHOLUP

by TheMoon on Jun 13, 2011 9:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Problem is he probably thinks he has one

seeing as he tries to post people up anyway. I’m willing to bet he did that nice spin move on Marion last game and thought, "See that? I got a post game. Ax anyone!"

How does one practice consistency? Take lots of Benefiber?
by WearShades on May 31, 2011 6:37 AM PDT

by Dr. Handsome, D.D.S. on Jun 13, 2011 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's called the 'Lobster Dribble'

Go ax him.

How does one practice consistency? Take lots of Benefiber?
by WearShades on May 31, 2011 6:37 AM PDT

by Dr. Handsome, D.D.S. on Jun 14, 2011 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

I believed he would the past few years.,

I think there’s something off upstairs with him, his competitive juices and hunger just aren’t there.

by dakoose on Jun 13, 2011 11:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

I highly doubt it

'Don't believe in you who believe in me and don't believe in me who believes in you, but believe in you who believe in yourself'

by T.Moore on Jun 14, 2011 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Your sig’s wrong. Prior to this year, ten teams have never paid the tax: Atlanta. Charlotte, Golden State, Houston, L.A. Clippers, Milwaukee, New Orleans, Oklahoma City/Seattle, Washington, and Chicago. Houston will pay it this year, but that’s still 9.

by Sham-onnnnnnnnnnna on Jun 13, 2011 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

darn.

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on Jun 13, 2011 10:43 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

There was the whole Eastern Conference Finals thing ...

"Smith stripped. Smith stopped! Smith stopped again by Pippen!"

by ColonelFatheart on Jun 13, 2011 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I don't smoke crack, but I do watch a lot of sport

And whether you like it or not, the Heat were better than us. Since we can’t assume or predict that they’re going to get worse, we’re going to have to get better.

And a lot better than anything Sasha Vujacic provides. Sasha’s a 10th man. We need a 5th man.

by Sham-onnnnnnnnnnna on Jun 13, 2011 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Embellishment acknowledged

But the larger point – that in which they could make an adjustment to us that we could not overcome – stands firm. Sadly.

by Sham-onnnnnnnnnnna on Jun 13, 2011 6:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

And I do think the difference is rather large

But purely for the reasons stated. It’s a gap which, with the right move, disappears.

by Sham-onnnnnnnnnnna on Jun 13, 2011 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

It’s a gap which, with the right move, disappears.

That’s precisely why it isn’t a huge gap. We don’t even need a huge move. An average player at SG would probably put us over. We’re not far off and we don’t need to blow up the team like trading Deng for Ellis.

by tuluse on Jun 13, 2011 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

I know that

Which is why I didn’t propose that. My proposal returns every rotation player except for Bogans. Where’s the blowing-up?

by Sham-onnnnnnnnnnna on Jun 13, 2011 7:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

I wasn't talking about your proposal there

It’s just been a common idea around here recently, while you admit you embellished, there are others around here who think it’s a the stark truth.

by tuluse on Jun 13, 2011 7:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ronnie Brewer was in the rotation...

…and was one of the more disruptive wing defenders on the team. That would be missed if the Jackson trade went through as proposed.

7 for 7.

by Dionysus2.0 on Jun 13, 2011 8:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

As important and helpful as Ronnie's disruptive defense was, the Bulls defense was dominant because of

their bigs and Thibs’ system. I suspect that Jackson could handle it ably. He doesn’t have the lateral quickness that Brewer has but he’s a smart guy who should be able to properly funnel guys to help and use his length to contest jumpers.

by fundamentallysound on Jun 13, 2011 8:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Brewer didn't just funnel guys to the bigs though.

Brewer was able to keep Wade from even going by him, while still being up in his chest and putting contest pressure on Wade’s dribble.

I’ll happily trade Watson and/or Korver in a reasonable, but I definitely don’t include Brewer in a trade for someone like Jackson.

by Scotter on Jun 13, 2011 9:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, that's true. I don't know. It's tough. Part of me would like to see what the Bulls could do with simply

playing Brewer more minutes. If you completely remove Bogans from the rotation, I feel like the Bulls are a better team. But I also very much believe that they need another creator or two alongside Rose.

by fundamentallysound on Jun 13, 2011 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

They definitely need another creator, probably two.

And by a creator I mean ball-handler more than a guy that can create shots. I believe teams should have three guys in the rotation that can function fairly well as the point guard in the half court and that at least two of the three should nearly always be on the court. To me that’s more important than getting a shooting guard that can explode in big scoring bursts.

Even though I think Brewer should be kept I would prefer to bring him off the bench in basically his current role and try to find two players to replace the trio of Bogans, Watson, and Korver. I still believe that dealing for Hinrich would be a good move as he would serve a similar function in a slightly different role to what Jason Kidd does for the Mavs.

As I said before I would have Hinrich come off the bench, and then see what the Bulls could get for their money in free agency to replace Bogans as the starter. Maybe there is an amnesty program and Rip Hamilton gets bought out. Maybe the Bulls can get J.R. Smith for whatever the new equivalent of the mid-level is. I’d be much more comfortable taking a chance on someone like J.R. Smith if I had someone like Hinrich that can shoot and handle the ball, but won’t force things as an alternative when needed in crunch time.

 

by Scotter on Jun 13, 2011 10:44 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Sham suggested Bo McCalebb. I think he could play that role. I also really like Charles Jenkins

in the draft. He can run the PnR and hit open catch and shoots. Great decisionmaker. Granted he’ll be a rookie, but if I’m right, I think he can be one of those kinds of guys in the half court that can create and break down a defense and create opportunities off of those defensive collapses for the lesser lights when it comes to handling the rock.

I still think Kirk is basically totally washed up at this point. I thought it was telling how much better Atlanta was with Jeff Teague in the lineup over Kirk.

by fundamentallysound on Jun 14, 2011 12:09 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I'm not sure how Jeff Teague's play is telling.

Hinrich had a solid series against Orlando and Hawks fans were giving him a lot of credit for his play against Nelson, which stats back up. Hinrich shot the ball well and committed only four turnover in six games. Teague played 8.5 minutes in the entire series against Orlando and Hinrich obviously didn’t play against Chicago so I don’t see how what Teague did against the Bulls is really a point of comparison.

And Teague blowing by Rose was more memorable than it was effective on a team level. If we are going to compare series then the Hawks did appear to be worse off defensively without Hinrich, and Atlanta wasn’t that much better offensively with Teague on the floor even with Teague playing well above his norms individually. Teague had a great series, but I don’t see how it proved Hinrich is washed up when Hinrich just had a strong playoff series of his own before getting hurt.

by Scotter on Jun 14, 2011 2:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

The Bulls don't need a place holder

they need a guy who can actually create offense and put the ball in the basket. They need someone who when Rose is struggling, can carry the offensive load for a quarter or an entire half. That is what Boozer and Deng can’t do. They need Rose. The Bulls need to find someone who can create offense on his own.

Look at how Dallas won game 6. Dirk was awful for many stretches of the game. But Terry took over in the 1st half and JJ stepped up in the 3rd quarter. By the 4th, the Heat were completely tired and felt like they couldn’t leave anyone. Kirk Hinrich is simply not a good enough scorer to be anything more than a 10 to 15 minute back up for the Bulls. Which would be fine, if he were making CJ Watson type money. The Bulls lost 3 games to the Heat in the 4th quarter. They failed to score over 85 in 3 of those 5 games. Is Kirk Hinrich going to step up and make shots? The Bulls need a guy who can put the ball in the basket without Rose. If he is a good passer and can set up his teammates (which Kirk really doesn’t do) all the better.

by Basketball Smurf on Jun 14, 2011 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

Right. I think Scotter's love for what Kirk brings to the table is misplaced, which is odd

because he and I usually agree about most things.

Kirk really isn’t a creator so much as an over-dribbler. He’s not much of a penetrator, instead he pounds the ball into oblivion on the perimeter. Expecting him to play the Jason Kidd-on-the-Mavs role for us seems woefully misguided to me. He’s not that good and frankly has never been as good as a 38 year old J-Kidd.

by fundamentallysound on Jun 14, 2011 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Kirk's not the answer.

Still he’s not terrible like you seem to believe. He’s just not a SG, and that’s what we need.

News flash: Luol Deng is good...We now return you to your regularly scheduled hating...

by kingles on Jun 14, 2011 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Kirk played much better with Washington

when he started at PG next to Young. As SG next to Wall, he was no better than last year. With Atl. he basically was turned into Bibby, with better D, he didn’t fit there at all.

News flash: Luol Deng is good...We now return you to your regularly scheduled hating...

by kingles on Jun 14, 2011 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, being that we have Derrick, who is probably the most similar player

in the league to Wall, and we already saw that Kirk sucked next to him, I don’t really see how he is an answer to any of the questions that plague the Bulls.

by fundamentallysound on Jun 14, 2011 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

He's not the answer, for the Bulls.

I think he may be the answer for someone else though.

News flash: Luol Deng is good...We now return you to your regularly scheduled hating...

by kingles on Jun 14, 2011 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm just discussing the Kirk sucks

and is washed up angle that you presented to the conversation. I’ve discussed the primary issue seperately. I still like Kirk as a player, even though he’s not the answer to the Bulls problems.

News flash: Luol Deng is good...We now return you to your regularly scheduled hating...

by kingles on Jun 14, 2011 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

There are some roles where Kirk might still be effective.

Unfortunately for him, the number of teams with such roles available is a pretty small number.

by fundamentallysound on Jun 14, 2011 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Kidd penetrating like 2 times in the whole finals series

He just passed from the perimeter and shot 3s when he was open, and played good defense.

by tuluse on Jun 14, 2011 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Kidd didn't have too because

he was surrounded by shot makers and scorers. I don’t think Kidd would be enough to get the Bulls over the hump either – though I trust his veteran savvy over Kirk’s.

by Basketball Smurf on Jun 14, 2011 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, he hit some big shots and played solid defense.

But Barea was the most important point guard in that series. If I could be convinced the pre-2008 Kirk could return to this planet then he’d be a perfect fit. You need someone to attack the D when they’ve taken away the initial dribble penetration.

by Ozzie Montana on Jun 14, 2011 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Barea was not the most important point guard in that series.

Kidd played about 226 minutes during which Dallas +42

Barea played about 129 minutes during which Dallas was -24.

Barea certainly helped and getting a second ball-handler in the starting lineup was a smart move by Dallas. Something that I want the Bulls to have, two guys that can both function at the point guard nearly always on the court. Barea gave Dallas a lift, but Terry and Kidd were both far more important point guards in that series.

People keeping talking about the Bulls needing a Jason Terry. Well Derrick Rose is supposed to be the Bulls better version of Jason Terry. I think having someone play a Kidd like rule and do the dirty work is important, but there’s obviously room to bring in another instant scorer like Barea as well although probably one that is more of a pure shooting guard.

by Scotter on Jun 14, 2011 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

No, Rose is the Bulls version of Dirk

The primary scorer who draws the focus of the defense. Jason Terry is the 2nd scorer who can create his own shot which was suppose to be Boozer, but he can’t consistently create his own shot, and never has been able to. It was a miscalculation on the Bulls part, one that many people, YaoPau most notably, saw coming.

by Basketball Smurf on Jun 14, 2011 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

JT is also

One of many ball-handlers that Dallas have. While we only have CJ and Rose. That can handle the ball. I honestly it will benefit Rose and Booz and even Deng to have more pressyre off if we have JT-type player (or JR, Jamal crawford)

'Don't believe in you who believe in me and don't believe in me who believes in you, but believe in you who believe in yourself'

by T.Moore on Jun 14, 2011 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Rose is the Bulls best player, but he can't be Dirk.

The function that Rose serves in the Bulls offense is closer to Terry. Rose has to be a much better Terry and Boozer has to be a poor man’s Dirk. Boozer obviously can never be Dirk, but he can be the second scorer, while serving the basic function of Dirk in the offense.

The belief that Boozer can’t get his own shot is way over stated. A guy doesn’t maintain a 26% usage rate without being able to get his own shot. When Boozer has his jump shot, which he normally does he can get his own shot. Obviously not to the same extent as Dirk and with much less range, but then Rose should be able to do better than Terry. And Noah should be a guy that can get his own shot in the right situation unlike Chandler.

I’m not arguing that the Bulls need to be exactly like the Mavs, but the Bulls can be fairly similar. And I believe in a lot of what the Mavs, especially having two guys that can legitimately play point guard on the floor.

by Scotter on Jun 14, 2011 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

This was all brought up in an articlein which there was lengthy discussion.

It’s just a good counter-argument to the, YOU NEED SUPERSTARS (plural) to win a championship. No you don’t. The Mavs showed you didn’t. But you absolutely must have more than one legitimate playmaker, and that was thebiggest thing, in my opinion, the Bulls lacked. With multiple outside shooters not too far behind.

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on Jun 14, 2011 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Boozer was assisted on his scoring chances right at the same

% as an average PF who plays 20+ minutes. In his Utah years, he was assisted on a higher percentage than the average starter for his position.

He can get his own shot somewhat, but he’s not a great creator of offense and is a pretty weak as a second creator for your entire team.

by fundamentallysound on Jun 14, 2011 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think there is more than one way to skin a cat

Against Miami, the Bulls biggest problem was not being able to put pressure on the defense from multiple positions, so they were free to harass Rose as they pleased.

We could try to fix this with a Kidd type who can run the offense and let Rose play off the ball, or we could try with a Ben Gordon type who will score at will if the Heat try to cheat off him to harass Rose.

by tuluse on Jun 14, 2011 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

This is just one part of your post

but I personally don’t think this is true at all, and I’m not sure how it helps your argument

People keeping talking about the Bulls needing a Jason Terry. Well Derrick Rose is supposed to be the Bulls better version of Jason Terry.

by Stacey_Is_King on Jun 14, 2011 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

My point was people ignore that the Mavs were primarily

playing a lineup with one perimeter scorer in Terry and a non-scorer like Kidd in the backcourt. A guy in Marion who actually has less ability to get his own shot than Deng. And another guy in Chandler who’s very efficient, but absolutely can’t get his own shot.

My point is that people are over stating how many guys that can get their own shot that the Mavs actually had on the floor.

by Scotter on Jun 14, 2011 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Marion demonstrated far more ability

to get his own shot than you are giving him credit for. He went to the post and was able to score when he wasn’t double teamed. He hadn’t showed that ability before, but it proved quite useful during the Mavs run. I’d give Deng the edge as a better offensive player, but he simply hasn’t shown that degree of 1 on 1 work outside of just shooting a J in someone’s face that Marion demonstrated in these playoffs.

Dirk obviously can operate out of the post and on the perimeter. He isn’t a great ball handler but he can get his own shot. Than you have JT and JJ. That is 4 guys who can get their own shot, 3 of whom (Dirk, JT and JJ who are very adept at it). I don’t include Kidd btw, because he is simply a ball handler. The Bulls really just had Rose.

by Basketball Smurf on Jun 14, 2011 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

You cannot count Marion as guy who can get his own shot

if you don’t count Deng. That’s a ridiculous conclusion, especially when you consider what Deng did this season playing with a second unit made up of the worst offensive players on the team. Marion may post more, but Deng can indeed get to spots off the dribble and get his shot off unlike Marion. And Boozer can certainly qualifies as a guy that can get his own shot if you’re going to consider Marion to be one.

JJ was indeed a guy that can get his own shot and the Bulls definitely do need at least one more guard that can get his own shot, but he was on the bench to close games and never played more than 30 minutes even in the games he started.

The Bulls need another perimeter shot creator, but to claim the Mavs had four and the Bulls just had Rose is disingenuous. What is definitely true is that Mavs had three guys that could legitimately play point guard offensively and the Bulls only had Rose.

by Scotter on Jun 14, 2011 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Deng can get his shot off

but a 17 ft jumper that he dribbles into isn’t creating your own shot. Especially if in 4 out of 5 situations when he is guarded by a defender he is passing that shot out. Its smart offense given his abilities but its not shot creation. Its not taking your guy 1 on 1 and creating a high percentage shot for yourself or another player.

The Bulls 2nd unit was famous for their offensive struggles. For winning sections of games 6 – 2 and 8-2 – I wouldn’t put their offensive prowess as a feather in Deng’s cap. If anything I think it points to Deng’s offensive failures. I would love to see Deng’s numbers for when he shared the floor with Rose as opposed to when he did not. From my perspective, Deng was always better with Rose. The 2nd unit needed either because they were so anemic. I believe Deng is a better offensive player than Marion because he has more versatility (he can cut, he can hit shots from the perimeter, he can score in traffic down low), but he needs to work inside a set offense far more than Marion does.

But its not disingenous to say the Bulls only had 1 shot creator and the Mavs had 4. I think its a fact. If Deng can create his own shot, why the hell was he letting a guy 5 inches shorter than him take him out of 4th quarters? Why wouldn’t Thibs call plays for him like Carlisle called plays for Marion? You are using old data to come to current conclusions. Marion expanded his game. He added the post game I wanted Deng to get 3 or 4 years ago.

by Basketball Smurf on Jun 14, 2011 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

"but a 17 ft jumper that he dribbles into isn’t creating your own shot."

If that’s how stiff your criteria are, than Stephen Jackson and OJ Mayo aren’t shot-creators either.

Pat Riley is the devil.

by Poloplaya14 on Jun 14, 2011 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Compared to Deng

no they aren’t much better. I’m not a big fan of either – I’ve actually written some pretty unflattering stuff about Mayo.

But I would just argue those guys are far more prolific scorers than Hinrich. I know that means nothing to you guys, but their is some value in putting the ball in the basket. I personally would rather have JR Smith because of his offensive versatility or Gordon because he is a straight up shot maker

by Basketball Smurf on Jun 14, 2011 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well then what's the point?

Part of why I’m talking about Hinrich is that it actually could freaking happen fairly easily because Atlanta legitimately has immediate salary cap issues..

People talk about guys like teams are just going to hand guys over because they feel sorry that the Bulls had to start Keith Bogans.

by Scotter on Jun 14, 2011 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, the Bulls could sign Smith

he is an UFA and I would like them to do that, but I just know the Bulls’ MO and don’t expect them to take him on. I think that’s stupid because he is a very good player who could really help this team, but I know how this Bulls FO operates.

And the price you’re suggesting to get Kirk seems prohibitive to me, considering he is somewhere between below average and average (at best).

by fundamentallysound on Jun 14, 2011 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

It Watson and crap is prohibitive

then I don’t feel you’re being objective at all. Hinrich is certainly better than Watson and certainly better than Bogans.

And if Derrick gets hurt for two weeks you can’t convince me that you would rather have Watson playing than Hinrich.

by Scotter on Jun 14, 2011 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

does JR Smith really have versatility?

he’s a 3-point shooter first and goes to the rim seemingly exclusively in transition.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 14, 2011 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

you're right

JR is a bad example. My ultimate guy would be Harden. I want a 2guard that approximates what he does on the offensive end. A jack of all trades type. Outside of that I want a guy who is just a straight shot maker.

by Basketball Smurf on Jun 14, 2011 9:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

well there's a reason Harden was picked #3 overall

you know who else was picked #3 overall? Ben Gordon.

QED

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 14, 2011 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

well harden isn't the only guy

who can do that stuff. A name someone else mentioned I find kind of intriguing is Stuckey. He can penetrate and pass, has some size on him, gets to the free throw line, can play the 1 or 2 – can’t shoot though.

Gordon would qualify under the “straight shot maker” label and I’d prefer him over someone like Crawford or maybe Smith because of his consistency, familiarity, and clutch-ability.

by Basketball Smurf on Jun 14, 2011 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

I would argue BG's defense

is much better than Crawford as well.

by tuluse on Jun 14, 2011 9:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

I've seen enough of Stuckey

to know that I would never want him on my team.

Yes, he gets to the line and is big and can handle the ball. But his shot selection is terrible and he has absolutely no idea how to actually play in an offense. He’s part of the problem in Detroit,

Even though I’ve argued against it I would take Ben Gordon back and force Derrick to guard SGs before I would take Stuckey.

by Scotter on Jun 14, 2011 10:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

glad you said this about stuckey so i didnt have to.

"if Jonny [Flynn] loved playin competeant basketball az much az he loves de movie Salt
he might be ok."

- MAYNHOLUP

by TheMoon on Jun 15, 2011 12:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

Stuckey 18.6 PER

to Hinrich 12.8 PER. But yeah, Stuckey is the one who sucks.

by Basketball Smurf on Jun 15, 2011 1:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

i could care less about hinrich or about

PER. i just know stuckey plays like he just picked the game up yesterday, which makes him a lousy fit for a team with title aspirations and also, apparently, a player overrated by PER.

"if Jonny [Flynn] loved playin competeant basketball az much az he loves de movie Salt
he might be ok."

- MAYNHOLUP

by TheMoon on Jun 15, 2011 2:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

i'm not singing the virtues of Stuckey

but i doubt you or anyone on this blog has watched detroit enough to totally dismiss his numbers. he gets to the line, he doesn’t turn it over, Detroit was significantly better when he was on court as opposed to off the court. I’m sorry, I’m trusting the numbers over guys who watched Detroit play like 5 times all year.

by Basketball Smurf on Jun 15, 2011 2:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

I live in Michigan

I’ve watched more Pistons games than anyone should have to.

Although being in the Palace when Rodman’s number was retired was pretty cool.

by Scotter on Jun 15, 2011 3:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

And lets be real

Jackson and mayo are far better ball handlers than deng. The chances of them dtibblimg into a good shot is much higher

by Basketball Smurf on Jun 14, 2011 6:50 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

The chances of them dribbling into

a bad shot are much higher. I’ll give you that because they have much broader shot selection.

Jackson has more ability to get a shot off, but Mayo has no more ability than Deng to get a shot off.

by Scotter on Jun 14, 2011 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Marion added a post game?

That’s worse than you arguing that Dirk added stuff to his game in the last couple of years. What Marion does in the post is unchanged from his days in Phoenix.

When Derrick was on the bench Deng increased his usage rate significantly without losing much efficiency. He took another 1.5 shots per 36 minutes, while also nearly doubling his free throw rate which compensated for a decline in open three point shots without not only Derrick on the court, but also Boozer and Noah. That second unit was awful offensively, but Deng individually was just fine.

by Scotter on Jun 14, 2011 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

So Dirk has the same exact game

this year as he had before. That is such ridiculous bullshit, which no NBA analyst supports. But I guess there just idiots too. And yes Marion added a post game. I live in PHX, watched the Suns a ton when they had Marion. They never posted the guy. Doesn’t mean he couldn’t do it, just means they never asked him to. Crap he didn’t show much of a post game until the playoffs when his teammates got on him for needing to do more. Than he became more aggressive. I know that might surprise you sense you seem to believe players don’t get better and don’t get worse.

To your 2nd point – Deng lost efficiency without Rose on the floor – that was my entire point. Of course he took more shots. That goes without saying. But even with the increased ft shooting his efficiency went down which shows he benefited from having Rose on the floor. We need someone on the team who helps Rose become more efficient AND who can get his at the same effeciency level with or without Rose. That is my entire point and that is why I’m so down on Hinrich. Hinrich is just another guy waiting around for the Rose kickout or trying like hell to get Rose the ball. We already got those guys. Now, lets add someone who can also carry the offense for a solid stretch in an important game.

by Basketball Smurf on Jun 14, 2011 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

The argument is whether Deng could

create his own shot, and he clearly did since there was no else on the floor to create it for him. His overall efficiency did not decrease. Would he be better with more offensive talent around him? Sure.

Marion did have the same post game in Phoenix. He didn’t use much because posting Marion up if you were Phoenix is kind of stupid since there are better options than Marion flipping the ball at the basket.

Of course Dirk has gradually improved, but you arguing that he was doing things that he couldn’t do three years ago is wrong. I know idiot announcers have to justify why Dallas was winning a championship, rather than losing in the first round, but that doesn’t make it true. Dirk’s certainly the same player he was when he won MVP.

 What changed more than anything was the players around him, especially the addition of Tyson Chandler and the elimination of the Jerry Stackhouse/Caron Butler types that people now want to put on the Bulls.

by Scotter on Jun 14, 2011 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

We will just have to disagree

To me its hard to make the case that outside of chandler dallas has noticebaly improved their personnel.

Dirk simply did not have this same level of success against smaller defenders in the past. His footwork is better, his ability to hold post position is better. I never said he became a different player. The original argument was whether lebron could improve. I said yes, dirk improved his post game late in his career. Which he did. He is taking less 3s now than at any point in his career. He murders smaller guys now which he wasn’t doing 2 years ago.

And despite what you say, the mavs didn’t replace the butler types with hinrichs. They got some guys who can shoot and attack the rim

by Basketball Smurf on Jun 14, 2011 7:02 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

he was definitely doing this 2 years ago.

i dont know if you have been watching the mavs in the playoffs since 07-08 but dirk has been a freakin monster since then. it just took till this year for the rest of the team to catch up a bit.

"if Jonny [Flynn] loved playin competeant basketball az much az he loves de movie Salt
he might be ok."

- MAYNHOLUP

by TheMoon on Jun 15, 2011 12:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

1000 amens to this
What changed more than anything was the players around him, especially the addition of Tyson Chandler and the elimination of the Jerry Stackhouse/Caron Butler types that people now want to put on the Bulls.

♫ i've entered a snake of pits with knives in the back of me ♫ can't call you or on you no more when they're attacking me ♫

by marionette on Jun 18, 2011 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Dirk was doing this stuff in 2006, you know when he won MVP

I get clients down to 5% body fat with ease you fucking idiot. - dakoose

by Trey23 on Jun 14, 2011 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

apples and onions

I get clients down to 5% body fat with ease you fucking idiot. - dakoose

by Trey23 on Jun 14, 2011 6:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

actually it fits very well given your comment

Unless we are now arguing dirk hasn’t improved in 5 years

by Basketball Smurf on Jun 14, 2011 7:04 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Because we should always compare

a 22 year old MPV to a 27 year old MVP in his 8th season that’s been All-NBA 1st team the last three seasons.

Dirk worked to improve, but he didn’t improve that much. People over state how much players actually improve because of the need to create a narrative and the difficulty of remembering the past accurately.

by Scotter on Jun 14, 2011 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

if you say so

i didn’t say Dirk became a new player, just that he improved one aspect of his game – namely his post game. He wouldn’t be the 1st MVP to get better.

by Basketball Smurf on Jun 14, 2011 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Kidd most likely isn't the answer for us

But writing that Kirk can’t penetrate and thus can’t play like Kidd is wrong too.

by tuluse on Jun 14, 2011 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Kirk would've helped us this year.

 Unfortunately not only do our current SG’s not score, but none of them can handle or distribute either…at all. However since this season is over, I agree it’s time to look for a true answer at the 2, and Kirk isn’t it. Now’s the time we need a BG, or Cap’n Jack, or Mayo, etc..

News flash: Luol Deng is good...We now return you to your regularly scheduled hating...

by kingles on Jun 14, 2011 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not suggesting Kirk would be the whole answer at SG

He would be an upgrade at backup PG and part of the answer at SG. If they had Hinrich as a safety net then they could take more of a risk with who they add as a scorer at SG. Hinrich becomes a more versatile Keith Bogans, albeit one that doesn’t normally start. And then the Bulls can find a replacement for Korver that is more of a scorer.

by Scotter on Jun 14, 2011 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Why does Korver need replacing? Because he couldn't find the floor against the Heat?

He single-handedly won some of the early round games with his shooting and floor spacing. I still think he has a place on this team.

by fundamentallysound on Jun 14, 2011 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Depends on who the Bulls get.

If we were fortunate enough to get say Iggy, then Brewer becomes kind of redundant and keeping Korver is a priority. If we got someone like Mayo, or BG, then hanging on to Brewer for his size and defense is more important. There’s a good chance we will lose one or the other of those 2 players I think.

News flash: Luol Deng is good...We now return you to your regularly scheduled hating...

by kingles on Jun 14, 2011 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well the biggest reason is that his salary would have to go out

in the Hinrich trade. In a choice between keeping Brewer and Korver, I choose Brewer. I just did the math tough and the Bulls could trade Watson, Bogans, Pargo, and Lucas III to Atlanta for Hinrich under the current rules. I assumed the Hawks would at least want both Watson and Korver, but maybe they would be happy with just Watson and freeing up about 5 million to re-sign their own free agents with.

But my belief that there needs to be two ball-handlers on the court is the reason I believe a trade has to be made. I’m not someone that wants to trade a guy because he had a bad shooting playoff series. Korver hit a ton of big shots and played well, but I think they need a more well rounded player to close games with in the playoffs and I think Korver is a difficult player to start. If the Bulls can get Hinrich for Watson and non-guaranteed contracts then I would be all for keeping Korver.

by Scotter on Jun 14, 2011 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

You seem to think that simply being able to handle the ball is enough.

That’s where we disagree. I want a second guy who is able to do something with it (get into the paint, collapse the D, and then make the right pass). Kirk hasn’t been that guy for years now.

by fundamentallysound on Jun 14, 2011 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

We disagree on that then.

Part of the difference is probably that I want very much to be able to move Derrick off the ball and free him up from a lot of the energy wasting activities that playing point guard requires at the end of games. You seem to be primarily thinking about secondary action after Rose’s initial penetration is stopped. I realize I’m different from most people that primarily just want a scorer at SG. I don’t think I’m wrong, but the things I value in basketball are probably different.

I’m curious who these guys are that get into the paint, collapse the D, and then make the right pass. Almost none of the proposed options actually do all that including guys like Mayo and Ben Gordon. I mean Hinrich is arguably a better player than Mayo is right now, and it’s not that difficult of an argument to make.

by Scotter on Jun 14, 2011 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think Mayo is pretty overrated, but I think JR Smith is a

much better basketball player than Kirk and he wouldn’t even need to be traded for.

The guys I’m thinking about in the collapse the D through penetration role are guys like Barea. Jerryd Bayless has this ability. Barbosa, Monta, Courtney Lee, Kevin Martin, etc. These guys are guys that when they put the ball on the floor, they are actually putting pressure on the defense because they are either threats to score and get into the paint or both.

J.R. Smith doesn’t necessarily pass all that often, but he’s so good that you don’t necessarily need him to be looking to find guys because he’s an incredible scorer and offensive force all on his own.

by fundamentallysound on Jun 14, 2011 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Kirk doesn't put any pressure on the defense when he puts the

ball on the floor. That’s my biggest problem with bringing him in.

I think even if Kirk has the ball and Derrick is working off the ball, the other team (namely, the Heat) will be working hard to deny Derrick the ball off of his cuts. That forces Kirk to make a play, which he is woefully lacking in ability to do.

by fundamentallysound on Jun 14, 2011 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

hes attacked the rim plenty this season

And he’s not rondo with his shooting ability. He’s gnna hit shots if left open. I’d say he’s better than rose at the pick and roll as well. So if rose is being denied hinrich doesn’t have to create on the fly…instead he can run a second option of a pick and roll with boozer while deng runs off a screen of Noah for a midrange or 3pt shot as Noah dives….and u can’t tell me that a single player will be able to deny the ball from rose the whole time.

hell I bet rose is more efficient with his 3pt shot in catch and shoot situations as opposed to his own dribble set up.

I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!

by piccolomair on Jun 14, 2011 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

This is lunancy

Hinrich played next to Rose for an entire season. He cannot consistently get to the basket and finish to the point where he can carry offenses for a stretch. He will not draw defensive attention away from Rose. The Bulls don’t need someone else to run pick and rolls with Boozer. They need someone to break down defenses and score when plan A and B go to shit.

by Basketball Smurf on Jun 14, 2011 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hinrich also had that annoying habit

of passing up open shots.

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on Jun 14, 2011 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Right. This often caused big problems for the offense

because it’s so hard to get good shots, so turning one down almost always leads to a worse one.

by fundamentallysound on Jun 14, 2011 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

hinrich played next to rose

On a team that had one of the worst NBA coaches of all time, an utterly pointless offensive system and a team surrounded by so many questions of who had what role in the offense, not to mention a far worse version of rose no post presence at all and an uncertain luol deng.

The idea of thinking that any part of THAT bulls team is the same as the current one is true lunacy

i agree that having that killer instinct guy is also needed…but as scotter said hinrich doesn’t have to be a final piece…and he’s still an upgrade over bogans CJ and korver.

I’m trying to argue that a guy like Kirk can be beneficial and isn’t some crazy notion at all

I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!

by piccolomair on Jun 14, 2011 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

the idea that Hinrich can be beneficial

isn’t lunancy – saying that he is going to finish at the rim and run the offense in any sort of way that is more than perfunctary is – or perhaps illusory is a better word. People are seeing in Hirnich what they want to see. He hasn’t done that stuff for years and its time people stop saying he can/will do things he hasn’t done in 3 to 4 years. He is simply not going to fill the role we need him to play and to acquire him would cost too much. I’d rather have Brewer or Korver on their OWN than have Hinrich – let alone trading one of those guys and cap space to get him. Korver is a better offensive player and better fit. Brewer is a better defender for what we need and creates easy baskets with his steals. I’d take either guy over Hinrich. Even as Scotter envisions Hinrich, he isn’t anything more than a 10 to 15 minute player. A mere cog in a 3 man sg rotation. Not worth the money and frankly not worth the verbage wasted on him.

by Basketball Smurf on Jun 14, 2011 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

No I envision Hinrich as a

24 minute per game player that can play more when needed.

Brewer and Korver have areas where they excel in, but they are clear liabilities in certain situations. Hinrich is rarely ever a true liability. He’s a better player than they are.

by Scotter on Jun 14, 2011 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

illusionary?

I’m not imagining hinrich going off like Terry nor do I believe scotter is, I’m considering what is true about hinrichs game…ability to defend, ability to run an offense, and ability to shoot the ball. Then finally his personality which plays a big part imo of how well his insertion into the team will fare.

I think its more illusionary to believe Jr Smith will behave on the bulls and play defense than it is to believe that hinrich will help this team out.

aside from Aaron affalo and the potential of alec Burks…none of the free agents really seem like they are going to fit in to me. They all have flaws and weaknesses

I just rather have the evil i know with hinrich…which essentially will be lack of clutch scoring..as opposed to something unforeseen by someone else

I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!

by piccolomair on Jun 14, 2011 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

he can't run an offense

or shoot the ball well enough to be an effective player for the Bulls at his salary. He can defend but he doesn’t defend 2 guards any better than Brewer or Bogans.

If you think Hinrich’s only problem is that he can’t score in the clutch than I don’t know what to say. But regardless – THAT IS THE BULLS BIGGEST NEED. Someone who can create shots and score in the clutch. So why in the hell should we target a player who even his most staunch defenders acknowledge that he doesn’t have the most important skills the Bulls need?

by Basketball Smurf on Jun 14, 2011 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Brewer crushes Hinrich in defensivee

effectiveness and I would argue that even Bogans is better.

by fundamentallysound on Jun 14, 2011 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

But Bogans can't dribble or create

a shot so any small difference in there defense is basically moot.

by Scotter on Jun 14, 2011 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, yes, that's true.

I’d prefer Hinrich over Bogans, but then there’s that whole bit about price tag.

by fundamentallysound on Jun 14, 2011 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Would you trade

Watson, Bogans, Lucas III, and Pargo for Hinrich or not? It’s not like the Bulls are under the salary cap or taking on longterm money.

I don’t know if Atlanta would do it for that little, but there’s at least an argument that they would be better off having 5 million to spend resigning their own guys or trying to find another guy that can play center for them.

by Scotter on Jun 14, 2011 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

For that deal? Yeah I'd do it.

The Bulls could replace CJ Watson with Bo McCalebb or draft someone to run the point when Derrick is out or just have Kirk do it.

But, like you, I suspect Atlanta would want more than that for Kirk and I don’t think he’s worth any more than that package you suggested.

by fundamentallysound on Jun 14, 2011 6:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

I just don't see how

trading Watson and Korver for Hinrich is that much to give up. Sure it may even be a net downgrade during the regular season when bad and average teams can’t exploit a player’s liabilities, but the Bulls need to be thinking about beating the best teams in the Eastern conference in the payoffs.

Granted Watson had the foot injury, but he really struggles on offense against good defenses because of his lack of court awareness and limited dribbling skills. And as good as Korver is playoff teams can force him off the court.

I don’t think giving those two guys up is that great of a cost for a guy that can actually play no matter what the other team does in the playoffs. It’s not like Hinrich hasn’t played well in the playoffs these last three seasons.

It’s especially not too much when the Bulls can still sign a free agent like your guy J.R. Smith or whoever and/or package Brewer with the non-guaranteed deals if a team does decide to dump a talented shooting guard.

by Scotter on Jun 14, 2011 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Simply put, Hinrich isn't a 8million type of guy

2012/2013 when his contract is up, he will sure look good in a Bulls uni, making 4mil a year.

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on Jun 14, 2011 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

So why wait a year?

It’s not like the Bulls are under the salary cap.

by Scotter on Jun 14, 2011 6:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

We already know what Hinrich brings to the table

whats the rush? The Bulls have solid assets they should hold on to and see what opens up. Hinrich is a fan favorite, I don’t see how he isn’t in a Bulls uniform in 2012, why rush? Use the assets on a new guy. Bring in that “missing” scorer and round out the guard rotation with Hinrich when the time comes.

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on Jun 14, 2011 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

he will not get a conttct more than the vet min, come on now

I get clients down to 5% body fat with ease you fucking idiot. - dakoose

by Trey23 on Jun 14, 2011 6:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

In Washington, Kirk averaged 1.3 shots at the rim per game

(1.3 actually represents a drop from the number of shots at the rim he usually attempts) and converted at an aberrationally high clip for him (68%). Then he went to Atlanta and his shots at the rim dropped to .7 per game and he finished at a woeful (but normal for Kirk) 53%.

And yeah, what BS said. Running a second pick and roll after Derrick has gone through options A and B while handling the ball is stupid. There would be little time left on the shot clock. In that situation, you need someone who can get the ball and quickly make bail out plays or shots, like JR Smith or Jamal Crawford or Jason Terry or OJ Mayo or Ben Gordon.

Kirk’s skill set is square peg for the round whole we need.

by fundamentallysound on Jun 14, 2011 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's not just about running a secondarty pick and roll.

It’s about Hinrich being able to occasionally run the primary pick and roll where he is better passer than Derrick currently is. It is about Derrick being able to leak out in transition instead of coming back for the ball. It is about Derrick being able to rest on offense instead of bringing the ball up.

This is about more than who can jack a shot with three seconds left on the shot clock. It’s about giving the offense more options, while giving Derrick a chance to be at his individual best.

by Scotter on Jun 14, 2011 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

right

Its not just about the last second shot…its about having an offense that win in a way to avoid the last second shot…

I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!

by piccolomair on Jun 14, 2011 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

It still puts the onus on Derrick

to make things happen ALL THE TIME, except you want him moving when he’s off the ball AND dominating with the ball. He’s not superman. He needs an actual offensive option next to him. Not someone to pound the ball into the court while he runs off screens.

by fundamentallysound on Jun 14, 2011 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Quit acting like Hinrich is Chris Duhon

I’m under no illusions about how good Hinrich is, but don’t pretend that Hinrich can never create his own shot or get into the lane with the ball.

by Scotter on Jun 14, 2011 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

The only way that is true is if you

assume the player I remember is the 06/07 Hinrich.

by Scotter on Jun 14, 2011 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm assuming you think he's the Kirk

from Derrick’s rookie year. He’s not even that good anymore.

by fundamentallysound on Jun 14, 2011 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

He's the same guy.

Other than APM numbers which I find dubious, I don’t know how you can argue that he’s clearly gotten worse.

by Scotter on Jun 14, 2011 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

He gets blown with more regularity

than he did before. I think his defense has really taken a step down in the last couple years. I think that’s showing up in the APM numbers (which I think do have value, especially when the error rates are reduced).

by fundamentallysound on Jun 14, 2011 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

APM has a value.

I don’t want to sound like someone that totally dismisses it. I helped bring it to the attention of this blog after all, but you actually have to look at why those numbers are the way they are. It can’t be simply this guys APM’s are bad or great. You actually have to look at the lineups they played in and try to understand why the APM’s are bad.

Boozer, Noah, and Bogans each individually played almost no time without Rose on the court the entire season. There’s no way APM can effectively account for that type of thing.

I think APM over multiple years works well for guys who don’t alter their games much depending on context. I don’t think APM has much value for guys like Hinrich that play multiple positions and do dramatically change their games to accommodate who is on the court.

APM is built around the premise that players are basically always the same. Chuck Hayes is always Chuck Hayes. Chris Paul is always Chris Paul. Hinrich though is at least two different players, arguably more since it’s not as simple as PG versus SG.

APM should be a piece to the puzzle, but it’s only a piece and far from idiot proof.

by Scotter on Jun 14, 2011 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

he can't

I get clients down to 5% body fat with ease you fucking idiot. - dakoose

by Trey23 on Jun 14, 2011 6:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

I fail to see how Courtney Lee or Barea are any different than Hinrich

They get maybe an extra shot at the rim per game, but Lee is assisted on a far greater percent of his, and Barea has a lower assist rate.

Personally I think you’re putting too much stock into the memory you have of Hinrich sucking and letting that affect your judgement.

by jpm356 on Jun 14, 2011 8:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

I would say the two biggest differences...

…are age and price tag. True, those aren’t player talents, but they are definite considerations in acquiring a player.

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on Jun 15, 2011 7:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm more in line with this, 'playmaker' being more important than ballhandling

I guess I interpret ballhandling as a precursor to having playmaking ability in the first place.

So having the ability to not only create shots to not only give less incentive to trap Rose, but also be able to take over for stretches of games when Rose sits (or takes a possession off here and there). And also move Rose off the ball more often.

And Hinrich is just that last part.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 14, 2011 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

how about raymond felton instead of hinrich?

♫ i've entered a snake of pits with knives in the back of me ♫ can't call you or on you no more when they're attacking me ♫

by marionette on Jun 14, 2011 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Heat are too athletic

They can leave Korver and get back to him in time to contest his shot. When he’s contested his effectiveness drops dramatically.

He also can’t play defense and wasn’t trusted to be on the court more than 20 minutes a game, when his shot is falling.

Replace Korver with Ben Gordon or Jason Terry, and I bet we are in the finals.

by tuluse on Jun 14, 2011 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think the problem with this idea is that Kirk

makes too much money right now. If we gave up the assets salary wise that we’d need to for Kirk, would we have enough left to get somebody who’d be a true answer as the starting SG? I agree that Kirk is better than the combo of Bogans/Watson, but we’d have to give up more than that to get him.

News flash: Luol Deng is good...We now return you to your regularly scheduled hating...

by kingles on Jun 14, 2011 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

As I said above the Bulls wouldn't have to give up more

than Watson and Bogans if Atlanta would go for that. And even if it does take Watson and Korver then the Bulls still have the ability to sign someone with whatever the mid-level exception is under the new CBA or package Brewer with non-guaranteed contracts if someone does decide they want to trade. It’s not like trading for Hinrich would be the final move the Bulls could ever make.

by Scotter on Jun 14, 2011 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

plus hinrich is on the last year of his contract

So if it doesn’t work u don’t have to resign him and if it does u could resign him probably for cheaper.

I think the biggest merit of having hinrich is familiarity with the roster and organization…there wouldn’t be an ‘awkward’ faze with him and like u said he supplies what the bulls need while also not taking away possessions from rose deng and boozer.

to compare him to Dallas players he’s probably something between kidd and Terry…but admittedly less clutch. He’s a clear upgrade overall over CJ korver and bogans with only brewer having a more unique ability due to his physical gifts and defensive ability.

I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!

by piccolomair on Jun 14, 2011 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think he's a clear upgrade over CJ. CJ was one of the top

defensive point guards in the league this year, while Kirk was merely average on defense (he’s dropped off a lot in that respect). Kirk had a better offensive year than CJ, but that appears to be an abberation because CJ was well below his historical FG%, while Kirk was bascially the same mediocre offensive player he’s always been his whole career.

And to suggest Kirk is an upgrade over Korver is laughable. There’s not a single objective metric that would suggest that.

by fundamentallysound on Jun 14, 2011 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

so wait

Cjs drop in offense was an outlier bus his increase in defense was not? And korver can shoot better than Kirk…thats about it…im talking about overall upgrade not just one facet of one side of the court

I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!

by piccolomair on Jun 14, 2011 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Korver's overall impact on just the offense is enough to carry the day.

Kirk is not nearly as good on defense as you think he is and his offense is crap compared to Korver’s offensive impact.

And yes, we can look at CJ’s drop in shooting % and say pretty clearly that it was an outlier. Defense is mostly about effort, aberrational shooting is mostly about luck. CJ stepped up his effort. He just was unlucky in his converting on his shots.

by fundamentallysound on Jun 14, 2011 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

oh i see

So CJ tried harder this season and that’s why his defense has been better and has just been unlucky with his shots which is why his offense has struggled

Meanwhile Kirk has lost a step in his vastly over rated defense and just sucks on offense…

This line of logic is more inconsistent than NBA officials

I’m Sure the system and team have something to with their results

Atlanta and the wiz have openly accepted the merits of kirks defensive upgrade and the advantages he brings to the offense… Why is it so hard to believe these advantages exist and can benefit the bulls right now

?

I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!

by piccolomair on Jun 14, 2011 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nothing inconsistent about it

Kirk has sucked on offense for the last 3 out of 4 years. You guys just choose to ignore it.

by Basketball Smurf on Jun 14, 2011 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

im not ignoring hinrichs offensive defficiencies

But I don’t believe that the player should just be based on his individual points or assists…apm has almost always suggested that teams were better with hinrich on the floor…that must mean something shouldn’t it. From a skill set p.o.v he has almost every quality we need except clutch scoring…ur choosing not to acknowledge that and instead focus on his inability to fill the boxscore

I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!

by piccolomair on Jun 14, 2011 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Kirk has sucked on offense for 3 out of 4 years,

but Raymond Felton hasn’t?

No one is saying Hinrich is awesome, but he has the virtue of most likely actually being available for what the Bulls can offer and being roughly as good a player as the likes of O.J. Mayo or Raymond Felton. Players that many of the same people that hate Hinrich would be happy with

by Scotter on Jun 14, 2011 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Felton is a much better penetrator and

finisher for one. He gets many more attempts at the rim and converts them at a better percentage than Kirk.

by fundamentallysound on Jun 14, 2011 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

I would also argue that Felton

is a very good defensive player. A guy George Karl trusted to guard 2 guards. But I think his best days are at point guard, so I’m not that interested.

by Basketball Smurf on Jun 14, 2011 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Karl got killed by Denver fans for the Lawson/Felton pairing

I didn’t watch much of that series, but I’ll take their word for it that having Felton at the 2 isn’t a great idea.

Pat Riley is the devil.

by Poloplaya14 on Jun 15, 2011 7:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

That's one way and the result of

that superior penetration and scoring skills is that Felton hasn’t managed a true shooting percentage over 52.5% in any season of his career.

I don’t have a problem with people thinking Felton is slightly better than Hinrich. I have a problem with people acting like Hinrich is significantly worse.

by Scotter on Jun 14, 2011 6:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's primarily

because he shoots too many threes at a slightly below average rate and he doesn’t go to the line enough for a guy who gets to the rim as frequently as he does.

by fundamentallysound on Jun 14, 2011 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

And what makes you think those things will change on Chicago

Especially on a team that lacks 3-pt shooting like Chicago does. I think there’s a good chance that instead of attacking to take advantage of the double teams that Rose draws, he’ll just jack up 3s.

Pat Riley is the devil.

by Poloplaya14 on Jun 15, 2011 7:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

And that's why I think Alec Burks would be a great fit for this team.

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on Jun 14, 2011 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Bo McCalebb isn't just NBA-calibre

He’s fringe starter, quality backup calibre. It’s ludicrous that the NBA hasn’t moved on him yet, and whoever does it first will get a fine player. And then all the media will be all like “oh wow, how do they find these guys?” when Bo is extremely easy to find, given his outstanding performances in the second highest calibre of league in the world.

I don’t want rid of C.J. Watson or anything, but if he goes, his replacement writes itself.

by Sham-onnnnnnnnnnna on Jun 14, 2011 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

Francisco Garcia for Ronnie Brewer

Straight up. It works in the Trade Machine. Gives us a very good all-around player who can handle the rock and score out of the SG/SF spot.

[only built for cuban linx]

by Mighty Healthy on Jun 13, 2011 10:12 PM CDT reply actions  

I believe that Korver is not a great fit for this team

We lack ball handlers and other serious 3pt shooters to help space the floor with him on it. He is a good player, but he would be better suited elsewhere. To be honest, this team needs just a few improvements to be a Championship caliber team. They need another ball handler with Rose who can drive and create their own shot and can also keep a team honest with their jumpshot. That, and not be a liability on defense. Therefore, I propose this: Release/trade/get rid of Bogans and Korver. Keep Brewer for his defensive prowess and baseline cuts. Sign J.R. Smith AND Chris Douglas-Roberts. Both of these signings can create their own shot and are athletic enough and young enough to improve within the scheme setup by Thibs. I like the CDR signing because he can play both SG and SF…..yes that means Luol Deng can get a rest for once! He is also coming of a difficult year with the Bucks and can be picked up cheap which is vital with a hard salary cap looming in the future.
So many people have said to trade so ’n so and do this and that to ultimately change the face of this team. I really think it is as simple as some wise free agent signings…

by Brigade17 on Jun 13, 2011 10:55 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

If the Bulls need ball handlers and three point shooters

Why then target Chris Douglas Roberts, who doesn’t have three point range?

Korver’s presence reaffirms that the Bulls need MORE shooting, not less. And we also don’t need to be getting younger all the time. You get younger when you suck and need to find a new foundation. We don’t suck. We just need cohesive talent now, with age being irrelevant. In fact, a little age would help, as Kurt Thomas showed.

by Sham-onnnnnnnnnnna on Jun 14, 2011 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

yep

people are quick to forget just how much better the offense was with Korver on the floor. i’d absolutely trade him if we had to for an upgrade, but he was pretty damn valuable to this team.

by M 80 on Jun 14, 2011 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'll give you that for sure

because Korver is a great shooter, but he is by no means a well rounded player. Because of that, and the fact that we do not have other floor spacers to maximize his value, I feel that either we do need shooters to aid him in his talents, or to look for more dual threat players. Obviously, I am stating a case for the latter.
Sham, I like CDR because he would back up Smith and Deng. He offers a unique offensive game featuring good ball handling, driving, and quick floaters that often go in. With the Bucks, he had very few open shots from range, but when they were available, he usually knocked them down. I think that you are looking at him to fill Bogans role of “I’m going to stand in the corner and if the ball gets thrown to me, I will shoot” when that role needs to be scraped altogether.
Personally, I felt that the Bulls ran into more problems when the ball was forced from Rose’s hands. Teams began to double him as soon as he passed half court, and then would prevent him from getting the ball back. We need playmakers.

by Brigade17 on Jun 14, 2011 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't have a problem with acquiring CDR

But I do have a problem with CDR over Korver.

As for the playmaker need, the OP was 11,000 words of agreement on the subject.

by Sham-onnnnnnnnnnna on Jun 14, 2011 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

A lot of that was just how bad Bogans and Brewer are on offense.

It wouldn’t take much of a SG to significantly improve the offense over what it is when Bogans is on the floor.

by Grinder in Training on Jun 14, 2011 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

i don't see how the heat was "so much" better than the bulls.

they went to udonis haslem and mike miller desperately after game 1. and haslem, same guy who missed 70 regular season games and played 3 minutes of play-off basketball, basicly won the game 2. at the same time our best defensive big guy had to go off injured. miami went for a 12-2 run after omer’s injury.

same with mike miller. he was worthless through the play-offs, played only in the garbage time against philly and boston. he returned to spoelstra’s rotation and gave his all. he grabbed huge rebounds, made two consecutive 3’s in the game four and won that game for the heat. btw, chicago’s own mike miller kyle korver was busy with being useless.

i’m not saying miami wasn’t the better team. they were. but everything went their way. lebron’s jumpers falling, bosh’s not missing anything, refs fucking it up in game 2 and 3, guys like haslem and miller coming out of nowhere, etc. they were as good as they can ever be in the ecf. so yeah, they were the better team. but the difference wasn’t large and it won’t be larger never again if the bulls FO doesn’t screw this summer.

Grab it, Jo!

by Jesus Fever on Jun 14, 2011 8:37 AM CDT reply actions  

Even if the Bulls stand pat,

another year of seasoning should do a world of good. I don’t think they ever expected to get to the ECF this year, and they played like they were happy just to be there. Next year they will consider it a failure if they don’t get to the Finals — although there is a danger that once in the Finals they will again play like they are happy just to be there. One of the big differences for the Mavs this year is that they knew their window was closing.

by Tim S. on Jun 14, 2011 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

Assuming seasoning/gelling occurs at the same rate for all teams.

Personally, I think after lebron’s finals effort the heat have some issues to hurdle…although that does mean they probably have the most to gain from said gelling

by SidM on Jun 14, 2011 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

a scary thought is if Lebron takes all the criticism to heart and comes out better

than before. Gets a post game, gets a mid range game, learns how to play off the ball, etc.

by Basketball Smurf on Jun 14, 2011 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

I believe

if he didn’t get it before…he won’t now. His post game really spoke volumes of his mentality and ego…makes a stud like Rose even more likable.

"Word of advice, don’t join, Bears fans are crazy."--- D-Jackfan10

by ThorCo on Jun 14, 2011 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

'Can' being the operative word.

I ‘can’ quit my job, get back in the weight room, rehab my shoulder and tryout for a MLB team, but that bloody well ain’t gonna happen.

How does one practice consistency? Take lots of Benefiber?
by WearShades on May 31, 2011 6:37 AM PDT

by Dr. Handsome, D.D.S. on Jun 14, 2011 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

but haven't people said he needs a post game for the majority of those 8 years already?

He’s fallen short in the finals before, so I’m not sure why we’d assume this is the defeat that finally motivates him to learn some new tricks.

by SidM on Jun 14, 2011 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

he has always had the ability to blame someone else

maybe this loss makes him look in the mirror. This Mavericks loss is far more on him than the others were.

by Basketball Smurf on Jun 14, 2011 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

i suppose it could, and if so

then I guess we should be worried…but if it doesn’t, then I’m far less afraid of the Heat from here on out

by SidM on Jun 14, 2011 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Just like Boozer can "learn" defense

right guys!?

::crickets::

"Word of advice, don’t join, Bears fans are crazy."--- D-Jackfan10

by ThorCo on Jun 14, 2011 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Do we have any reason to believe he will?

That’s the most encouraging thing about Rose. He starts with far less gifts, but I have absolute confidence in his work ethic and coachability. Plus, he’s 22.

by Tim S. on Jun 14, 2011 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

The only reason to believe he will is all the criticism he is taking

its certainly possible he comes back more determined than ever before. I’m just not counting that possiblity out. Dirk just added that post game fade away stuff in the last couple of years. There is no reason to think Lebron can’t expand his game.

by Basketball Smurf on Jun 14, 2011 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh come on

Dirk could not go into the post early in his career. He was pushed out, he needed to face people up – that is why guys like Stephen Jackson and Matt Barnes had so much success defending him in the past. Now, he holds his position, gets the ball at the elbow, and can shoot fadeaways in either direction off one leg. Dirk improved the variety of his offensive game considerably over the last couple of years.

by Basketball Smurf on Jun 14, 2011 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

also i think he always had the skill

But lacked the strength needed to back down guys earlier in his career. With lebron its the opposite…he has the physical gifts but lacks the footwork to do so. I think he could still develop it…but it won’t be reliable for at least another season or two

I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!

by piccolomair on Jun 14, 2011 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

so he improved....

I wasn’t arguing that he couldn’t hit 17 ft jumpers in a vacuum. His footwork is better, his ability to hold his position in the post is better – despite what FS says I still believe that Dirk started working more from the post the last 2 years. Yes he would work from the elbow before, but he would always turn and face. The step back fade away off 1 foot might not be completely new to his arsenal but it is definitely one he honed over the last couple of years.

Likewise if Lebron starts hitting mid range fall away jumpers that won’t be completely new – he hit those shots this year. But if they become a consistent part of his arsenal it could open up other things and finally give him a go to move in the halfcourt when he can’t get to the rim.

by Basketball Smurf on Jun 14, 2011 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Lebron doesn't care about being criticized.

He’s the “King” and can do no wrong. It’s always somebody else’s fault, and has nothing to do with him. Every criticism of him or his game is based on hatred, jealousy, or ignorance.

News flash: Luol Deng is good...We now return you to your regularly scheduled hating...

by kingles on Jun 14, 2011 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, but the Bulls clearly suffered more from inexperience in this year's ECF.

I think the playing field should be more even next year — although health is always a wild card.

by Tim S. on Jun 14, 2011 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

But as to health, Miami is in some ways more vulnerable.

They have three players who absolutely must remain healthy, two of whom (Wade and Bosh) have a history of injuries. And they have two second-tier players (Miller and Haslem) who suffered from serious injuries this year and may or may not fully recover next year. The Bulls are deeper but more even in ability, which can be a disadvantage in the playoffs if everyone is healthy, but is an advantage in the regular season and in case of injury to the starters in the playoffs.

If there is a lockout and a shortened season, that may favor the Heat, since regular season injuries will be less likely.

by Tim S. on Jun 14, 2011 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

The injury argument is quite awful, because in case you haven't noticed

The guys making the most money have the highest chance of breaking into a million pieces.

by Ozzie Montana on Jun 14, 2011 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

If Rose gets hurt, we're a lottery team.

If Wade or James gets hurt, they’re not. And if Bosh gets hurt, they’re still a 60 win team with Haslem as his replacement.

by Sham-onnnnnnnnnnna on Jun 14, 2011 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

If that happens then we draft our shooting guard!

"Word of advice, don’t join, Bears fans are crazy."--- D-Jackfan10

by ThorCo on Jun 14, 2011 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

I like it.

Maybe we need to tank so that we can find our Scottie! Call the Clippers and tell him about this plan!

by cubbybear on Jun 14, 2011 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

WRONG

the no.1 defensive team would still likely make the playoffs, and a bosh for haslem trade would likely cost the heat their 60 win status.

♫ i've entered a snake of pits with knives in the back of me ♫ can't call you or on you no more when they're attacking me ♫

by marionette on Jun 14, 2011 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

LeBron took the Cavs to more than 60 on his own.

I don’t think it’d be a problem with Wade alongside.

by Sham-onnnnnnnnnnna on Jun 14, 2011 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

they had all 3 and only won 58

so take one out and they win 60+?

I get clients down to 5% body fat with ease you fucking idiot. - dakoose

by Trey23 on Jun 14, 2011 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

They're not starting 8 and 7 next year.

I’ll wager 35 million imaginary dollars on that.

Any team that changes 10 players in one offseason experiences hiccups.

by Sham-onnnnnnnnnnna on Jun 14, 2011 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Im restarting the rudy train

whos with me!

He can pass, he can shoot, he moves very well without the ball, and he can create his own shot as well for others, and with cho gone, i think hes gonnna feel homesick again….oh yea.. RUDY

I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!

by piccolomair on Jun 14, 2011 1:18 PM CDT reply actions  

He also shoots sub-40% and is going back to Spain next year

If you can prize him from Portland for a competitive price, mindful of those flaws, then I’m down. But it seems unlikely that that’s possible.

by Sham-onnnnnnnnnnna on Jun 14, 2011 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Signed a 3yr contract with Panathinaikos in July 2010.

So yes, although I have no idea what loopholes or escape clauses that contract may have.

News flash: Luol Deng is good...We now return you to your regularly scheduled hating...

by kingles on Jun 14, 2011 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd be happy with Rudy

Portland will probably ask for Rose and Thib’s first child as payment though

by tuluse on Jun 14, 2011 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thib's first child wont cut it, odds are he wont have time to knock up his future girl.

They’d want Rose, Benny, Stacey King, and one of the Larry O’Brien trophies. To be safe we should throw in a Mcdonalds gift card.

Cutler and Rose are bringing back Chicago sports.

by Faizamaze on Jun 14, 2011 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Pritchslapper is gone now though, perhaps they'd be more reasonable now?

News flash: Luol Deng is good...We now return you to your regularly scheduled hating...

by kingles on Jun 14, 2011 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

For some reason it seems like every time I watch him play he doesn't do too well.

News flash: Luol Deng is good...We now return you to your regularly scheduled hating...

by kingles on Jun 14, 2011 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Rudy?

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on Jun 14, 2011 8:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

costanza.jpg

"And thank you to God for making me an Atheist." - Ricky Gervais

by MichaelClutchtree on Jun 15, 2011 9:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Can I do the thing where I throw out a random name and then get mocked for it?

Raymond Felton?

He played often with Lawson and took the bigger guard. Also, fuck this defense fetish. I’m more concerned with the lack of 3-point shooting, but he’d certainly be a 2nd playmaker.

BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 14, 2011 3:46 PM CDT reply actions  

I see absolutely nothing wrong with Felton

He would provide the Bulls with a large amount of options in general and he is the kind of player that other teams will have to respect if he’s given a Rose jump pass (sadness) in the open half court set. If he could be convinced he would be a matchup nightmare due to his versatility – start him, bring him in as a sixth man, etc. The only problem is the size issue in the back court.

by Doc Heff on Jun 14, 2011 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

News from the shooting front
SpearsNBAYahoo Marc J. Spears
Kings extended a qualifying offer to Marcus Thornton, making him a restricted free agent. Sac loved his ability to play with Reke & Cousins.

LET'S GO BULLS!!!

by JustAnotherFan on Jun 14, 2011 4:23 PM CDT reply actions  

Yea i was going to say

What about Thornton or Stuckey? They are both RFA.. you think if we threw some cash at them the kings and the pistons would match?

Cutler and Rose are bringing back Chicago sports.

by Faizamaze on Jun 14, 2011 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Stuckey is an interesting 3rd guard candidate

I don’t know how much money he will garner on the open market, but he is a guy who could have some value freed from the duties of pretending to be a full time pg.

by Basketball Smurf on Jun 14, 2011 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd prefer Will Bynum

but I’m just tossing that name out there with no idea of his contract status.

How does one practice consistency? Take lots of Benefiber?
by WearShades on May 31, 2011 6:37 AM PDT

by Dr. Handsome, D.D.S. on Jun 14, 2011 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

He's a 25-year-old guard who can score

He may not be worth more than the MLE, but players like that tend to be overvalued on the free agent market.

Pat Riley is the devil.

by Poloplaya14 on Jun 15, 2011 7:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

6'5" combo guard as part of a 3 guard rotation

sign me up.

Plus I think the Piston’s very used the guy properly, I think he has a lot more value as a guy soaking up guard minutes behind Rose and than he ever did in Detroit.

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on Jun 14, 2011 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

haha, i meant poorly! not properly.

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on Jun 14, 2011 8:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

I would love Stuckey.

"Did Michael Jordan join the Pistons when he couldn't beat them? No. He dug down deep and went out and kicked their fucking ass."

by Dash2112 on Jun 14, 2011 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

He's 6'5.

"Did Michael Jordan join the Pistons when he couldn't beat them? No. He dug down deep and went out and kicked their fucking ass."

by Dash2112 on Jun 14, 2011 6:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

more like 6'2"

I get clients down to 5% body fat with ease you fucking idiot. - dakoose

by Trey23 on Jun 14, 2011 6:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Really? Rodney Stuckey?

You know who he is, right? He’s 6’5.

"Did Michael Jordan join the Pistons when he couldn't beat them? No. He dug down deep and went out and kicked their fucking ass."

by Dash2112 on Jun 14, 2011 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

maybe he's listed at 6. 5.

plays way smaller.

I get clients down to 5% body fat with ease you fucking idiot. - dakoose

by Trey23 on Jun 14, 2011 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

if he were a legit 6'5, he would be playing the 2

maybe you are right, I was looking for photos of him next to Rose

I get clients down to 5% body fat with ease you fucking idiot. - dakoose

by Trey23 on Jun 14, 2011 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Jason Kidd is 6'5"

Magic Johnson was 6’9"

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on Jun 14, 2011 7:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Does he?

He was a poorly used guard in a system run by an awful coach.

"Did Michael Jordan join the Pistons when he couldn't beat them? No. He dug down deep and went out and kicked their fucking ass."

by Dash2112 on Jun 14, 2011 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sorry, I guess I'll be more specific.

From DraftExpress.com:
Height w/o shoes: 6’ 3.75"
Height w/ shoes: 6’ 4.5"
I suppose I was .5 off.

"Did Michael Jordan join the Pistons when he couldn't beat them? No. He dug down deep and went out and kicked their fucking ass."

by Dash2112 on Jun 14, 2011 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

how dare you actually use measurements

I only accept height estimates for when random BaB readers stand somewhat near the people in question.

BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 14, 2011 9:19 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Can we have a new thread, please?

I’m having a hard time with all these conversations on the far right side.

by Tim S. on Jun 14, 2011 9:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hypothetically, I stood next to Stuckey

and he was much taller than me!! He’s 6’5!!

"Did Michael Jordan join the Pistons when he couldn't beat them? No. He dug down deep and went out and kicked their fucking ass."

by Dash2112 on Jun 14, 2011 9:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

He is basically a tiny bit smaller than Wade

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on Jun 14, 2011 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ooh Ooh! I got dibs on Eric Gordon!

Still hoping for that Ol’ Clippers Magic that makes them do dumb things.

How does one practice consistency? Take lots of Benefiber?
by WearShades on May 31, 2011 6:37 AM PDT

by Dr. Handsome, D.D.S. on Jun 14, 2011 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Eric Gordon is my unobtainable player crush

Rose and Gordon would be an awfully humble back court.

"If the Bulls are healthy it could get ugly." - Joakim Noah

by bryield on Jun 14, 2011 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

As a kind of Illinois fan

I am obligated to hate Eric Gordon, so it would be bittersweet.

by tuluse on Jun 14, 2011 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

What are the rules here?

Why not Howard and Wade and Nowitzki?

by Tim S. on Jun 14, 2011 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Aaron Affalo

I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!

by piccolomair on Jun 14, 2011 11:44 PM CDT reply actions  

jumped off the rudy train already?

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on Jun 15, 2011 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

i outbid denver in 2k11 for him

and hes killing it for my team, also i traded korver, cj watson, and my future 1st round for kirk hinrich (Yes. I. Did)

Rose
Brewer
Deng
Boozer
Noah

Hinrich
Affalo
Butler
Taj
Asik

all kinds of awesomeness right there

I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!

by piccolomair on Jun 15, 2011 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Even the computer GM undervalues Kirk...

News flash: Luol Deng is good...We now return you to your regularly scheduled hating...

by kingles on Jun 15, 2011 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ramon Sessions?

Cavs are willing to move him with Irving coming in. I haven’t analyzed his defensive capabilities much but he’s got enough size to potentially swing between the 1 and the 2. Not sure if last year’s spike in TS% is an outlier, but he’s an adept ball-handler on a small 2 year deal

follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com

by DartmouthCubsFan on Jun 15, 2011 11:52 AM CDT reply actions  

As a backup to Rose I think he'd be ideal.

He kind of plays like Rose did prior to this season, minus the elite athleticism. He can really get into the paint and cause havoc for the defense. Unfortunately, I’m not sure he’d be a good compliment to Derrick because he can’t shoot 3’s AT ALL. Brewer is a 3pt assasin compared to Sessions, which would cause opponents to pack the paint and negate both players greatest strengths.

News flash: Luol Deng is good...We now return you to your regularly scheduled hating...

by kingles on Jun 15, 2011 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Although if Derrick comes back with a further improved 3pt shot, it might work.

News flash: Luol Deng is good...We now return you to your regularly scheduled hating...

by kingles on Jun 15, 2011 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

I noticed that he was in the top 10 for 3FGA

Derrick is trying to develop that shot. He wants the defenses to be in his hip pocket when he’s on the perimeter. It makes driving by them so much easier.

by cubbybear on Jun 16, 2011 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Its all speculation but I fee that the Bulls should and will upgrade the shooting gaurd position through free agency with either Jason Richardson, JR Smith, Anthony Parker, or Nick Young

And as for the draft, Reggie Jackson (PG) from Boston College and JaJuan Johnson (F/C) from Purdue look like players that the Bulls can use. Reggie Jackson looks like a solid athlete who is a good shooter with natural playmaking ability. JaJuan Johnson is also a solid athlete that can defend, block shots, and score.

Charles Jenkins (PG/SG) looks ok, but comes from a mid-major conference and the Bulls, during the Paxson era, have only drafted players from a major conference. It would be surprising if the Bulls did pick Jenkins in the 1st round, but we’ll see.

by MCREW on Jun 15, 2011 2:17 PM CDT reply actions  

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