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Around SBN: NFL Players Ready To Welcome Gay Teammate

Update (6/2): That specific report was shot down by Howard himself. -ed.

"Magic center Dwight Howard spent the holiday weekend working on signing a two-year extension with the team, sources told Local 6 Sports Director David Pingalore late Monday.

Sources said the deal is all but signed by Howard."

12 months ago White_hot_gordon_avatar_tiny Andrew7 213 comments 0 recs  | 

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So does that mean

No other team can get him?

by knickknack7450 on May 30, 2011 10:20 PM CDT via mobile reply actions   2 recs

Great for the NBA, though!

Not sure I could have handled another ‘superteam’ – unless of course it was the bulls.

by Diz on May 31, 2011 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

Oh.

"Did Michael Jordan join the Pistons when he couldn't beat them? No. He dug down deep and went out and kicked their fucking ass."

by Dash2112 on May 30, 2011 10:56 PM CDT reply actions  

Question......

What does anyone else here think about Ryan Anderson of the Magic?

"truTV is like BET for white folks." - Chuck

by macjack09 on May 30, 2011 10:57 PM CDT reply actions  

Better than any PF the Bulls currently have

He can shoot and the Bulls desperately need that skill….

by hitlesswonder on May 30, 2011 11:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah he's great

thats why he’s on the bench

'Don't believe in you who believe in me and don't believe in me who believes in you, but believe in you who believe in yourself'

by T.Moore on May 31, 2011 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wow that was fast....

I guess we’re keeping Noah and Boozer then sign J-Rich at shooting guard.

F Deng/Korver
F Boozer/Gibson
C Noah/Asik
G Richardson/Brewer
G Rose/Watson

by RoseFTW on May 30, 2011 11:13 PM CDT via mobile reply actions  

Likewise

I’d prefer signing JR out of FA or trading for Iggy before signing J-Rich.

"truTV is like BET for white folks." - Chuck

by macjack09 on May 30, 2011 11:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sounds good to me

I really think the Bulls will need to make a trade to both (1) shred some salary and (2) upgrade at SG. I’m not opposed to signing J.R. Smith, but after extending Rose I think the Bulls will only have the MLE (or equivalent under the new CBA) to offer.

That’s why a trade for Mayo, Afflalo, or Iggy (in no particular order) probably makes some sense.

"If the Bulls are healthy it could get ugly." - Joakim Noah

by bryield on May 30, 2011 11:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree with JJ being too expensive

but I hate that expression ever since I heard it on a T.O. press conference, where his publicist said he had 7 million reasons not to commit suicide (paraphrasing)

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on May 31, 2011 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

That was his publicist?

Huh…I thought it was just a random girl he was sleeping with.

"truTV is like BET for white folks." - Chuck

by macjack09 on May 31, 2011 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

How is overrated?

Let me guess you’re going to say he just stands around and can’t create or plays no defense? Well his job was to spread the floor for Dwight and Jameer, he couldn’t create much because Hedo, Jameer, and Dwight held the ball nearly 80% of the time. J-Rich is good enough to have Wade or LeBron pay attention to him, because if they don’t, he’s going to make LeBitch and STD pay. That was the problem for our offense, the Heat knew Bogans was the weak link on offense and took advantage of that, if you watched Bogans was always left wide open, but failed to knock down the wide open shots he took. Now if you put J-Rich on the floor instead of Bogans, do you think the Heat will double team Rose like that, I doubt it. By the way, J-Rich is a decent defender, just because you’re 31 does not mean you’re old and cannot play D. J-Rich is still athletic at his age and can still keep up with the young guys. Thibs will fix whatever flaw he has on defense. When it comes to defense, it’s about the system.

by RoseFTW on May 31, 2011 2:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

sure, he can shoot the ball better than bogans...

and is more athletic than him… so can about 100 other players in the world, j rich isn’t worth it not because he doesn’t fit a need, it’s that the skills he provides can be had without spending a bunch of money on someone who isn’t really that good..

by Basketball on May 31, 2011 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

Also...

I don’t even know why I am responding, part of your argument was to add magic thibs pixie dust on a league veteran… sillyness

by Basketball on May 31, 2011 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think a lot of people are overestimating Richardson's earning power

While he’s coming off a $11M/year contract, he signed that as a 24 or 25 year old. In other words, a lot of the money he was paid was for potential. At age 30 when many SGs slow down and coming off a disappointing run in Orlando, I’d bet he could be had for MLE if it still exists. Plus, Rose’s extension wouldn’t count towards the cap until 2012-13 season.

Well, isn't what LeBron did last night the living embodiment of The Secret, leaving millions on the table and turning himself into a hometown villain, all for the sake of winning?
Neil Paine, basketball-reference.com

by snley on May 30, 2011 11:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

I read a report

saying the suns likely traded him because his agent always goes for big bucks and they would likely not be willing to pay much for him.

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on May 31, 2011 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sucks, but a really smart move by Howard to reap something from the current CBA

while not committing to too much extra time in Orlando. This would give him a chance to get out at age 28 when he’d still have plenty of good years ahead of him.

Well, isn't what LeBron did last night the living embodiment of The Secret, leaving millions on the table and turning himself into a hometown villain, all for the sake of winning?
Neil Paine, basketball-reference.com

by snley on May 30, 2011 11:18 PM CDT reply actions  

Same here

No matter the CBA, Howard’s gonna get paid. I also think he doesn’t expect to win a championship in ORL.

by cubbybear on May 31, 2011 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

As much as landing Howard would've been nice.

The truth is, we don’t need Dwight Howard. Dwight Howard is defense and rebounding. We already have the best defense and rebounding in the league. What we need is a 2 guard, plain and simple.

The more I look back at the Miami series objectively – and not as a disgruntled fan – we were so close. Thibs getting his head out of his ass and solving the LeBron on Rose issue (instead of, you know, pitting your 6’2" guard up against the 6’9" best defender in the league one on one), could’ve ended up in us winning that series. Seriously.

The more I hear from the Miami camp, the more they sound like they can’t believe how lucky they were to escape that series.

by wilsoneads on May 30, 2011 11:35 PM CDT reply actions  

Dwight is quite a bit more than defense and rebounding.

"Did Michael Jordan join the Pistons when he couldn't beat them? No. He dug down deep and went out and kicked their fucking ass."

by Dash2112 on May 31, 2011 2:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

dwight is a monster

and you can’t double both howard and rose. One of them will always be one on one and likely get 30 pts easy if they are.

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on May 31, 2011 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

Would have loved to have Dwight,

but truth is that other than getting him, this is the next best thing. He’s kept isolated in Orlando and the team doesn’t have many ways to improve. Nobody is taking Turky or Arenas without Howard, so they’re probably stuck as they are, leaving the East to Chicago and Miami.

by dakoose on May 31, 2011 12:10 AM CDT reply actions  

Plan B: Boozer for Richardson (S&T) + Bass

Had a feeling that getting Howard wasn’t gonna happen.

My fanpost last night got deleted, but what do you guys think of getting Richardson (two-way SG who can hit the 3 at a decent clip) + Bass (hard-working PF who can pick-and-pop) for Boozer? Now that Howard’s gonna be in Orlando for the next several years, he’d probably like to have his buddy Boozer alongside him to take some of the scoring load off. We might be able to get Richardson for a little over $7.5M/year according to ESPN Trade Machine, and Bass is under contract for 2 more years at $4M per. Our lineup would look like this:

Rose – Watson
Richardson – Brewer – Bogans
Deng – Korver
Gibson – Bass
Noah – Asik – Thomas (if he returns)

by jonnyb on May 31, 2011 12:11 AM CDT reply actions  

I'll rather hold on to Boozer than to trade him for Bass, plus J-Rich is a free agent.

We will only make Orlando stronger if we trade Boozer to them. Yes I’ve been critical of Boozer lately, but he’s still a legit 20/10 player. I don’t know why many of you will trade him for role players. But let’s have Boozer & Noah start the season next year at the same page and we’ll go from there. Plan A is to go after Dwight, now that it’s no longer an option, go after a shooting guard, that’s all we need. J-Rich is a great, and we don’t have to give up anything to get him. In my opinion, J-Rich > JR.

by RoseFTW on May 31, 2011 2:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

We're up against the salary cap

so our options for signing a FA SG are to:

(1) hope they take a minimal salary (ring chaser level, unlikely to be a starter)
(2) sign them to the MLE (may not exist with the new CBA)
(3) S&T

I think Gibson’s progress was impeded by all of the difficult personal issues he had to deal with and Boozer’s presence as the starter this past year. As Derrick said, Gibson probably doesn’t realize how good he can be. If he can develop a more reliable jumper and not jump at every other shot fake he sees, I think he can be a be a solid 15/10 starter while providing great Noah-compatible defense.

by jonnyb on May 31, 2011 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

I remember when Deng had a horrible contract

Let’s wait another year before we anoint Boozer’s deal the worst contract ever

by PrettyNoah on May 31, 2011 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

still, they already a ton of money on the payroll

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on May 31, 2011 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Unless there's a hard cap with the new CBA

Orlando won’t care about paying more luxury tax. After years of dealing with Reinsdorf’s penny-pinching ways, it’s easy to forget that Orlando’s owned by DeVos who’s worth billions and doesn’t mind shelling out for who he believes are good players (see JJ Redick, Rashard Lewis, Vince Carter, Hedo Turkoglu, etc.). Money is not Orlando’s top concern.

by jonnyb on May 31, 2011 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

That doesn't mean anything in regards to their cap situation.

Orlando cannot sign anyone to anything outside of exceptions (if they exist in the new cba) so their flexibility is extremely limited. It would be even more limited by taking on another long expensive contract like Boozer.

by MagicMark on May 31, 2011 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

im glad

not from a bulls perspective, obviously i would love to have dwight, but in the sense that it means that perhaps the Heats evil hasnt yet spread that far, and that there are still nba players who deem winning a championship for the team that drafted them more important than simply just winning a championship. of course, in 2 years dwight might decide to screw that idea, but at least hes bought in for the time being…and thats good. Lebrons cavs were far closer than dwight ever was to winning the whole thing, and he still ran away…dwight takes a major step up over lebron now in my book (not hard to do mind you)

I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!

by piccolomair on May 31, 2011 12:11 AM CDT reply actions  

its more of what lebron did while leaving or about to leave that vilified him

1. He promised a championship
2. declared himself the King
3. bailed in the playoffs
4. The Decision

Maybe Howards leadership isn’t what it should be, maybe he gets T’d up a lot, but he has always put in the effort and I don’t think anyone would argue he is a quitter. If Howard goes, the blame will be put on Otis “Shoot from the hip” Smith

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on May 31, 2011 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

Here's hoping Ping is right

I can’t go through another offseason of this. Especially since this offseason can extend into January. The close calls with the Bulls nabbing elite players hurt just as much as any playoff lost.

Let’s just get a good guard and another year of experience under our young player’s belts. It will make the world of difference. Hands in the circle, the circle forms a cube, what are you gonna do, what are you goanna do, what are you ganna do with yo hand in my CUBES.

All I need is the air that I breath and to love you. - David Bowie

The NBA Basketball Bulls

by hoopinions on May 31, 2011 8:50 AM CDT reply actions  

I'm not certain this keeps a trade from happening.

It strengthens the Magic because now Howard can’t say, “Trade me or I’ll leave.” but it also gives them a better chip to trade with: in that Howard’s possible new team doesn’t have to negotiate an extension and worry about any of that. It really gives the Magic more leverage. They’d be foolish to trade him, but if they want to, I think this helps get them a little bit more.

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on May 31, 2011 8:54 AM CDT reply actions  

I'd trade him and Turkoglu for Rose, Noah and Deng

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on May 31, 2011 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

From a Bulls fan's perspective,

or from ORL’s perspective? I’d say thats a great deal for ORL and a pretty shitty one for CHI.

by dakoose on May 31, 2011 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

I may be a minority in this case

And while its a foregone conclusion that Howard is the best center in the league, the fact that Rose in one offseason went from All-Star reserve to MVP (controversial or not) and isn’t even old enough to rent a car, I would take Rose. Rose possesses certain qualities that I just don’t see in Howard and I happen to think that Rose has the higher ceiling as a PG at this point then Howard has as a C.

"truTV is like BET for white folks." - Chuck

by macjack09 on May 31, 2011 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

centers come at a premium

so howard being better than 2 and 3, while correct, is an unfair comparison because there are so few true centers to begin with.

As far as Rose being the best PG in the league, that is arguable, but one thing you can’t argue is that Howard can’t win it all by himself, so I think if you give up Rose in a Howard trade, its a wash because you will have to rebuild the roster.

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on May 31, 2011 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think anyone knows that Rose is not going to be involved in a trade with Howard.

Trades like that simply do not occur anymore, (if they ever did in the first place).

by MagicMark on May 31, 2011 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Taking my words out of context

Where in that last statement did I say Rose was the best PG? And Rose is only 22 if you’ve forgotten. So my ceiling for him is very realistic.

While Howard is better than 2 and 3 combined, its not like the competition is heavy. Quite frankly, I can’t think of the number 2 and 3 centers off the top of my head anyways.

The fact that Rose’s name stands out in a list that contains D-Will, CP3, Westbrook, Rondo (eh), Nash, and Nelson is a pretty good accomplishment. Especially since PG is easily the most top heavy position in the NBA.

"truTV is like BET for white folks." - Chuck

by macjack09 on May 31, 2011 6:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

He would have to improve by leaps and bounds in efficiency to ever be anywhere near as good of a player as Howard is.

I’d say he is the 3rd best PG in the league, but I do not believe he will ever be a better PG than Dwight Howard is a Center.

by MagicMark on May 31, 2011 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

As good as D12 is

I think he is underachieves how good he can really be. If he stopped complaining so much and showed a little aggression especially towards the end of the game he could overtake Lebron as the best player in the NBA. But I blame SVG more than anything for that.

"truTV is like BET for white folks." - Chuck

by macjack09 on Jun 1, 2011 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think people's expectations for him are incredibly unrealistic.

They are expecting him to duplicate Shaq’s offensive production while providing the same defense as Bill Russell. It is unlikely to ever happen. If underachieving means he is the 2nd best player in the league, I can live with that.

He just had a series where he averaged over 30 ppg while still providing great defense and somewhere north of 15 rebounds per game, I think. And this was against one of the only teams in the league that has players who can “handle” him, or so they say.

by MagicMark on Jun 1, 2011 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

atlanta can handle dwight?

with what?

I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!

by piccolomair on Jun 2, 2011 7:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Atlanta single-teams Howard,

and it worked for them, remarkably. Howard put up great numbers but his team lost.

by Tim S. on Jun 2, 2011 7:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Who's better?

Rose is the clear cut best of the group. And he’s just 22.

by dakoose on May 31, 2011 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

overall

does that mean skill wise…cuz then this is true for the moment. Look at it this way, whos better, lebron or kobe….easy answer right, lebron. But kobe is by far the more skilled player, better range, better footwork, better fundementals on both ends of the court. But lebrons better cuz hes an athletic freak with able skill. Same with rose. Cp3 is a better passer, williams has a better shot, but neither is as athletic as rose and thus neither has the upside rose has.

Cp3 and williams are both closer to their cieling by a mile than rose is. Rose can become more efficient with his shot, he can learn not to jump and pass, will those two always be more skilled then rose…sure…but that doesnt translate to being a better player than him.

If u want to go into this year (which i know u will) rose outplayed both those guys when he played them, and it wasnt outplaying them by a marginal difference, he clearly looked better than both of them. Alot of it has to do with athleticism, and at 22 and no major injuries or reason for him to lose that athleticism, hes got a high cieling, especially since most of what he lacks is more mental and consistency as opposed to learning new skills.

I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!

by piccolomair on Jun 2, 2011 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Small sample sizes are irrelevant. Jameer Nelson had routinely outplayed Rose until the last few games against Chicago this year,

but you don’t see anyone proclaiming that Nelson is better than he is, because that would be ludicrous. Head to head matchups matter very little when determining which player is better.

I would agree that Rose has a higher ceiling, but he isn’t there yet. He will probably get there in the next couple seasons.

by MagicMark on Jun 2, 2011 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

thats because jameer played a rose in his sophmore and rookie year?

Its not like rose beating john wall means anything, and its not cuz of small sample size, but because wall hasnt learned the game yet either. You really start evaluate a players progression in year 3. Not to mention that its not just rose played against them well, he really played well the entire season…honest! An entire season of great play and then beating his contemporaries at his position…surely thats not just small sample size…at the very least it simply means that the gap between rose and those two isnt as massive as you would want it to be.

I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!

by piccolomair on Jun 2, 2011 11:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

You're just feeding the troll.

Nothing will convince him otherwise. I wouldn’t waste my breath.

"The advanced metrics guys do not like Derrick Rose very much." - Bills Simmons podcast 2/4

by RogersPark Kris on Jun 3, 2011 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

Wrong.

You ignore countering arguments, but repeatedly blather your own.

"The advanced metrics guys do not like Derrick Rose very much." - Bills Simmons podcast 2/4

by RogersPark Kris on Jun 3, 2011 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

"Clear cut" is overstating it.

There’s no consensus that Rose is the best of the group. There are good arguments that he is, and equally good arguments that he isn’t. Right now (since Paul’s knee injury) I don’t think there is a consensus best point guard in the league. Howard, on the other hand, is hands down the consensus best center in the league, by a wide margin.

by Tim S. on Jun 1, 2011 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

yeah, nobody is taking D Will over Rose as this point

and with Paul’s injury history, I think its safe to say he wouldn’t be taken over Rose either.

by Basketball Smurf on Jun 1, 2011 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

The future of the NBA pg position

are these super athletic hybrid players (Rose, Westbrook, Wall )who can score, challenge the top SG’s, and still run an offense.

"The advanced metrics guys do not like Derrick Rose very much." - Bills Simmons podcast 2/4

by RogersPark Kris on Jun 1, 2011 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hell, even present

"The advanced metrics guys do not like Derrick Rose very much." - Bills Simmons podcast 2/4

by RogersPark Kris on Jun 1, 2011 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

If you think that NJ wouldn't piss themselves in excitement

if the Bulls offered to swap Rose for DWill, you’re crazy. Same goes for CP3 and the Hornets.

by dakoose on Jun 1, 2011 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

"because Rose is on the rookie salary scale"

That has to be the stupidest fucking thing I’ve read all day.

"The advanced metrics guys do not like Derrick Rose very much." - Bills Simmons podcast 2/4

by RogersPark Kris on Jun 1, 2011 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Okay... go home.

If they were all on the same salary what i said would still hold true. Go away.

by dakoose on Jun 1, 2011 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

No its not.

Get off the numbers on this one. Rose is the better player, a 22 year old MVP who already is better than those guys.

by dakoose on Jun 1, 2011 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

fantasy land stuff

lets talk about what actually happened instead of inventing scenarios for what may have happened.

by Basketball Smurf on Jun 2, 2011 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

That's funny considering Rose

just finished a season literally playing with half of Dwill’s former roster and won the MVP while getting that team to the ECFs. And that’s with an injured Brewer and Boozer and a worse Korver.

Hey Rose. I don't see the appeal!

by Dils on Jun 2, 2011 8:27 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

I don't suppose

Noah and Deng had anything to do with that.

by Tim S. on Jun 5, 2011 4:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Howard is a better player than Rose

Howard is a top five player. Rose, as someone else said, isn’t even the best PG in the league. In fact Rose is not appreciable better than Williams, Westbrook, and Nash while clearly being worse than CP3.

I would not trade Howard for Rose if I were ORL.

by hitlesswonder on May 31, 2011 10:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Rose IS the best pg in the leauge

See, I have an opinion too!

"The advanced metrics guys do not like Derrick Rose very much." - Bills Simmons podcast 2/4

by RogersPark Kris on May 31, 2011 11:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wrong again Magic fan.

It must be rough for Dwight getting sold out by his teammates for a possible MVP.

It’s funny how his fans take are taking it even harder.

Right super magic fan?

"The advanced metrics guys do not like Derrick Rose very much." - Bills Simmons podcast 2/4

by RogersPark Kris on May 31, 2011 11:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

rofl

I presented the same amount of evidence as you.

Here some evidence.

Rose led the Bulls to the best record in the NBA and the ECF on a team with no other all stars.

He also was the top scorer, ball handler, shot creator, and started most of the fast breaks from his insane athleticism.

I;ll take all those accolades over efficient ones where their team underachieved or didn’t reach the same amount of success any day of the week.

Don’t take it out on Rose because the Magic underachieved like they did and there by screwed over Dwights MVP chances in the process.

"The advanced metrics guys do not like Derrick Rose very much." - Bills Simmons podcast 2/4

by RogersPark Kris on May 31, 2011 11:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Are all Orlando fans this stubborn?

They won because of the defense and Rose’ great play.

It’s not simply one or the other.

And Rose is one of the best defensive point guards in the league.

He the NBA in block for pg’s and was second only to Wade in blocks for the guard position period.

I don’t know how you can dispute that.

"The advanced metrics guys do not like Derrick Rose very much." - Bills Simmons podcast 2/4

by RogersPark Kris on Jun 1, 2011 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

led*

"The advanced metrics guys do not like Derrick Rose very much." - Bills Simmons podcast 2/4

by RogersPark Kris on Jun 1, 2011 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

You're watching with blinders if you

think Rose is simply a below average defender.

It’s insanely difficult to get good looks on Rose because he has tremendous athletic ability.

He jumps quickly and with a 450 inch vert, plus he’s quick enough to get back when beat off the driblle to block the pg when he goes in for a layup.

Blocks for a pg is a rarity unless you have the athletic ability

"The advanced metrics guys do not like Derrick Rose very much." - Bills Simmons podcast 2/4

by RogersPark Kris on Jun 1, 2011 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

er, 40 inch vertical*

"The advanced metrics guys do not like Derrick Rose very much." - Bills Simmons podcast 2/4

by RogersPark Kris on Jun 1, 2011 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

In general that's true

but if you’re getting them at a position where they don’t usually happen, it’s more credible than it would normally be.

For example, steals for guards don’t mean good defense, but if a center was getting 2 steals/game, it’s be worth noticing.

by Stacey_Is_King on Jun 2, 2011 4:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

He has more blocks than lebitch

'Don't believe in you who believe in me and don't believe in me who believes in you, but believe in you who believe in yourself'

by T.Moore on Jun 1, 2011 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

block is a bad metric to go by

specifically as an end all be all statistic. Is pointing out block good for support? yes, but your only support, no. you forgot to mention why he is good on D. his iso defense is great.

He still jumps on too many fakes and doesn’t have veteran savvy, but those come with experience.

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on Jun 1, 2011 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

hey magic fans

have you seen this site?

by 5liv4 on Jun 1, 2011 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Because this is a Bulls blog

and most folks are talking about how Dwight would improve the Bulls. I know, it’s shocking.

You are free to discuss Rose and how much he would improve the Magic over at OPP. Go ahead, no one here will care.

"If the Bulls are healthy it could get ugly." - Joakim Noah

by bryield on Jun 1, 2011 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

What's your point?

You are free to read my first comment again, but this time do so carefully and slowly.

"If the Bulls are healthy it could get ugly." - Joakim Noah

by bryield on Jun 1, 2011 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Stupid

the Bulls have been the best defensive team in the league before when Skiles was in charge. The most that team ever won was 49 games. This Bulls team won 62 games.

And he was a big part of the defense. I get sick of repeating this but by Synergy Sports standards (a great bball site if you don’t know) he was a better defender than Westbrook or Rondo. He was 2nd in blocks among guards and 16th overall in steals per game. Ahead of guys like Rondo, Felton, Collison and Hinrich with good defensive reputations. You bitter Magic fans need to get a grip.

Top 10 in PER, only 10th player ever to average 25pts and 7.5 assist in single season. Other guys on that list – oh Jordan, Robertson, Jerry West, Lebron James, AI and Tiny Archibald. To say he didn’t have a great statistical season is foolish.

by Basketball Smurf on Jun 1, 2011 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Efficiency exists whether or not Bulls fans want to acknowledge it.

And he is the 4th best defensive player in your starting lineup, and probably the 7th best defensive player on the team. DRating is propped up by the fact that the Bulls as a team overall had the best defensive rating in the league.

by MagicMark on Jun 1, 2011 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not talking about DRating

What’s so remarkable about Rose isn’t that he improved defensively (incremental gains are pretty much assumed as young players become more comfortable), but that he improved so early and so rapidly. Rose is just 22, and a year removed from being a part-time liability on the defensive end. Not only has he shattered expectations for his defensive improvement this season, but Rose has a legitimate claim as a plus defender while playing at the most difficult position in the league. Gone are the lethargic sequences where Rose dawdled around a screen or launched into the air at the slightest pump fake. Rose has made a legitimately positive defensive impact, and he has the numbers to prove it.

More outstanding yet are Rose’s individual defensive numbers. According to Synergy Sports Technology, Rose has allowed just 0.77 points per possession overall on defense this season, an elite mark for any defender, regardless of position. Chris Paul (0.86 points per possession allowed), Rajon Rondo (0.83 PPP allowed), and Russell Westbrook (0.92 PPP allowed) –- all excellent defenders -– have been trumped statistically this year, and by no slim margin. Rose has each of those players handily beat, and boasts a shockingly comprehensive defensive profile.

http://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/19/rose-dwarfs-other-improvements-with-defense/

And PER is a measure of efficiency, whether you realize it or not.

by Basketball Smurf on Jun 1, 2011 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Points per possession is the same as defensive rating.

And again, his presence on the best defensive team in the league is the reason for those numbers. The defense is not good because of him, but instead of the incredible front court defenders (minus Boozer) that Chicago possesses.

by MagicMark on Jun 1, 2011 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Right

Switch out Rose with Monte Ellis and the defense is just as good!

SMH.

So did you change the channel when the Bulls would switch Rose to guard Wade? Or did that just never happened?

"The advanced metrics guys do not like Derrick Rose very much." - Bills Simmons podcast 2/4

by RogersPark Kris on Jun 1, 2011 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Right....

So basically no amount of proof will change your mind.

by Basketball Smurf on Jun 1, 2011 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

...

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on Jun 2, 2011 2:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

Oh and forgot

Rose is particularly effective in defending isolation sequences, where he allows just 0.61 points per possession. Rose’s lateral quickness becomes a huge asset when opponents go one-on-one.

in conclusion, you don’t know what you are talking about.

by Basketball Smurf on Jun 1, 2011 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Why would we do that?

That’s a step forward by getting a better player, then three steps back.

by Stacey_Is_King on May 31, 2011 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

And I'd trade him for Lebron

But we’re talking about realistic trades.

Pat Riley is the devil.

by Poloplaya14 on Jun 1, 2011 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

The 2 year part is interesting

It’s basically saying that he’ll give Orlando mgmt one more year to right the ship.

It he doesn’t see some drastic improvements, he’ll ship out imo.

But really, how much better can the Magic get?

They seem very much like the Bulls as being capped out and unless a Gasol-miracle trade falls in their lap (which I don’t see happening), they’ll be mediocre again next season.

"The advanced metrics guys do not like Derrick Rose very much." - Bills Simmons podcast 2/4

by RogersPark Kris on May 31, 2011 9:21 AM CDT reply actions  

a two year extension means 4 more years under Magic contract

at least that’s what the dude’s implying, and it makes sense since he’s signed through next year, and a 2012/13 ETO.

Don’t want to parse the rules about ‘converting’ ETOs into extension years, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s all guaranteed. and it’d mean a 2 year extension is 2 years added on to 12/13

BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 31, 2011 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Oh. That kinda changes things.

Guess he would be all in then.

"The advanced metrics guys do not like Derrick Rose very much." - Bills Simmons podcast 2/4

by RogersPark Kris on May 31, 2011 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not surprised in the LEAST

Of course he wants to stay in Orlando – it’s warm there, and no state income tax. That’s where they all want to play…or LA, or NY. Chicago is second fiddle, folks, and I never saw Howard playing here for that reason- the huge markets and the warm weather will ALWAYS win out in these pursuits. I think this really gets overlooked in this whole NBA musical chairs thing. Remember how we struck out twice in FA to Florida? Once James, Wade et al began to consider Miami, I knew we were out- they just weren’t going to pick Chicago over South Beach. Would you?

give up the howard dreams guys…it ain’t gonna happen. I just don’t see the Bulls ever signing a prime FA like the James and Howards of the world…either now or in the future.

by reedjohnson on May 31, 2011 11:24 AM CDT reply actions  

yes, i would.

Look
I didn’t want to offend anyone by saying the "f" word or generalizing my statement to any particular sex by saying "gays" or lesbians" or "bi’s" so "homos" is the most "politically correct" term. I’m just trying to be more tact in a tactless blog.

by Hindut Patrol on Feb 15, 2011 2:51 PM EST

by Jaina on May 31, 2011 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

speak for yourself

I’d take the first ticket out of this state that I could. If the world is your oyster, you’re young, single…why on earth would you come to chi town? Believe me, I wish they would…but I don’t see it

by reedjohnson on May 31, 2011 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well. Why not be adored by a town that actually gives a shit about sports all season.

Then train somewhere ‘warm and pretty’ in the offseason…seems to work pretty well for DRose.

"After Game 1, they made me and Joe’s life a living hell." - Jamal Crawford

by bleigh82 on May 31, 2011 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Do they really need tobe adored by Joe Beerbelly?

Howard has plenty of fans worldwide to be marketable. I’m sure his family and posse adore him (or pretend to). I’m not sure it matters much that’s mobbed by 20 overweight guys in a Chicago mall or 10 leather-skinned old women in a Miami mall.

Being as how rabidly rude Chicago fans are when you don’t perform to expectations, I’m not sure I wouldn’t take relative peace and quiet and the fewer old men. It sure seems like a lot of celebrities consider the lack of aquiet night out a “cost” and not a benefit.

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on May 31, 2011 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe because its one of the largest cities in America

Its 2011, we have heat and AC, weather doesn’t matter that much, especially when you play a game indoors.

"Word of advice, don’t join, Bears fans are crazy."--- D-Jackfan10

by ThorCo on May 31, 2011 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

If you don't like it.. why don't you leave?

Why on earth wouldn’t I want to live here? It’s an amazing city. You’re selling Chicago short if you think otherwise

by Grinder in Training on Jun 1, 2011 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

lol. Sheeesh

You act like Chicago is Cleveland or something. First off, it’s the best summer city in the world, second of all, it’s one of the best cities in terms of marketing. Third of all, it’s the best sports city in the country and if you win a title here, you’re a God. Ask Dan Hampton, Paul Konerko, or Johnathan Toews. who gives a damn about winning a title in Orlando or Miami?

Hey Rose. I don't see the appeal!

by Dils on Jun 1, 2011 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

At some point Carlos Boozer or Joakim Noah will have to be traded in order to acquire a quality Shooting-Guard. You can’t have both on their current contracts with Deng in place. Here’s how I see them in the Bulls pecking order:

- Rose (max)
-
Deng
- Boozer
-
Noah

As a Englewood native, I take much pride in watching D.Rose perform out on the court.

by Simeon'07 on May 31, 2011 12:34 PM CDT reply actions  

I think Noah is the one that needs to go.

We really need a true defensive anchor at our starting center, and Noah isn’t it.

I’d try to see if the Lakers would bite at this:

Bulls Trade: Joakim Noah, Kyle Korver, C.J. Watson

Lakers Trade: Andrew Bynum, Devin Ebanks

Maybe throw in the Bobcats pick to sweeten the pot for the Lakers, they’ll want that, because they have to know that they’re going to be rebuilding soon. I wish we would be able to keep Watson and/or get Steve Blake back in return in this type of trade, but Noah’s BYC status makes that impossible, and I don’t think it will be too difficult to mold another CJ Watson.

I think Bynum is a much better fit for this team than Noah. He would give us a better defensive presence and a post up option, something we haven’t had since Eddy Curry. He’s also 2 1/2 years younger than Noah, so he would fit in the Derrick Rose era a tad bit better than Noah would as terms as longevity go. There are the injury concerns with Bynum, but Noah has similar injury concerns.

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by Andrew7 on May 31, 2011 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Calling out Noah's defense?

I have to ask why would you say that Noah isn’t a defensive anchor?

"The advanced metrics guys do not like Derrick Rose very much." - Bills Simmons podcast 2/4

by RogersPark Kris on May 31, 2011 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

He gives up too much easy stuff at the rim.

Guys like Shaq, Mutombo, Ben Wallace, Dwight Howard, etc. dictate what happens in the paint, and make life very difficult for both interior and perimeter players at the rim. I don’t see Noah making it very difficult in the paint for other teams to score at all.

I really think it comes down to a size factor. I think Noah would be fine as a power forward, but he’s too small to be a center of my liking.

He doesn’t have a wide body at all, so he doesn’t have the base to properly defend stronger players in the post. In addition, not having a wider body results in him not taking up as much room in the paint, which makes it easier for other team’s offensive players to operate.

Noah’s standing reach is 8’10.5" and he has a wingspan of 7’1.25". That’s a small, small center.

Compare this to some other players. Shaq has a 9’5" standing reach and a 7’7" wingspan. Greg Oden – 9’4" and 7’4.5". Dwight Howard – 9’3.5" and 7’4.5". Andrew Bogut – 9’2.5" and 7’3".

You want your defensive anchor to be a big, wide, and long player. Noah isn’t all that strong, isn’t wide, and isn’t long. Noah might be more athletic than some of these guys, but when you’re down in the post, you aren’t going to be getting clean jumps, you are going to be jumping with some other guy exerting a decent amount of force on you, so Noah’s athleticism is diminished a bit, especially when the other guy isn’t a stiff in his own right.

One thing that too often get’s overlooked with the 04-05 team was the importance of Eddy Curry to the team’s defensive success. A large reason why our defense was so good that year was because Eddy Curry took up so much space in the paint, making it difficult for the other team to operate, and then Antonio Davis was pretty wide in his own right, so put him together with Curry, and it made life difficult for opposing offenses.

I think there is something to be learned from the 04-05 team with regard to Joakim Noah. Tyson Chandler played at another level defensively, in a large part from getting his minutes next to Curry and Davis, who were both strong wide bodied players that took up space, and impeded opposing offensive players, which gave the jumping jack in Tyson Chandler ample opportunity to alter shots as the offensive players weren’t getting very clean paths to the rim because there was so much mass taking up space in the lane.

If we can’t get a trade for a defensive anchor, I think the route to go ultimately will be to try to pair Asik and Noah. Let Asik lockdown the paint, giving Noah better opportunities to go out and roam with help defense, which should put Noah in a better position to make a defensive impact.

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by Andrew7 on May 31, 2011 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

So Dirk is the wide-bodied defensive anchor next to Chandler now?

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on May 31, 2011 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Dallas isn't a great defensive team.

They were ranked 8th in the regular season and 8th so far in the playoffs. Dallas probably shouldn’t be in the finals right now based on who usually wins the finals. Dallas is an example of a team whose superstar is on a tear…and that is another way to win besides having a great defense….that’s the way the Heat did it in 2006.

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by Andrew7 on May 31, 2011 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

He gives up too much easy stuff at the rim.

Guys like Shaq, Mutombo, Ben Wallace, Dwight Howard, etc. dictate what happens in the paint, and make life very difficult for both interior and perimeter players at the rim. I don’t see Noah making it very difficult in the paint for other teams to score at all.

I really think it comes down to a size factor. I think Noah would be fine as a power forward, but he’s too small to be a center of my liking.

He doesn’t have a wide body at all, so he doesn’t have the base to properly defend stronger players in the post. In addition, not having a wider body results in him not taking up as much room in the paint, which makes it easier for other team’s offensive players to operate.

Noah’s standing reach is 8’10.5" and he has a wingspan of 7’1.25". That’s a small, small center.

Compare this to some other players. Shaq has a 9’5" standing reach and a 7’7" wingspan. Greg Oden – 9’4" and 7’4.5". Dwight Howard – 9’3.5" and 7’4.5". Andrew Bogut – 9’2.5" and 7’3".

You want your defensive anchor to be a big, wide, and long player. Noah isn’t all that strong, isn’t wide, and isn’t long. Noah might be more athletic than some of these guys, but when you’re down in the post, you aren’t going to be getting clean jumps, you are going to be jumping with some other guy exerting a decent amount of force on you, so Noah’s athleticism is diminished a bit, especially when the other guy isn’t a stiff in his own right.

One thing that too often get’s overlooked with the 04-05 team was the importance of Eddy Curry to the team’s defensive success. A large reason why our defense was so good that year was because Eddy Curry took up so much space in the paint, making it difficult for the other team to operate, and then Antonio Davis was pretty wide in his own right, so put him together with Curry, and it made life difficult for opposing offenses.

I think there is something to be learned from the 04-05 team with regard to Joakim Noah. Tyson Chandler played at another level defensively, in a large part from getting his minutes next to Curry and Davis, who were both strong wide bodied players that took up space, and impeded opposing offensive players, which gave the jumping jack in Tyson Chandler ample opportunity to alter shots as the offensive players weren’t getting very clean paths to the rim because there was so much mass taking up space in the lane.

If we can’t get a trade for a defensive anchor, I think the route to go ultimately will be to try to pair Asik and Noah. Let Asik lockdown the paint, giving Noah better opportunities to go out and roam with help defense, which should put Noah in a better position to make a defensive impact.

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Chicago Bulls Blog and Forums. NBA Power Rankings.

by Andrew7 on May 31, 2011 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

given bynum's injury history and contract

I can’t see the bulls giving up noah to get him. It seems like they should be sweetening the pot

by Basketball Smurf on May 31, 2011 5:25 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

There is Hope

http://twitter.com/#!/windhorstespn

Dwight Howard’s words about Orlando & BBQ are wonderful. There’s a contract extension on table. Rumors will not go away til he signs it.

I agree with Windhorst. I do believe that Dwight will want to stay in Orlando. I guess he’s waiting for Orlando to make a move before the June 30th CBA expiration. If the Magic can’t get anything done on draft day, then Dwight will not sign the contract and will cause the Magic to consider trading away Dwight. The Bulls have a microscopic chance, but I won’t get my hopes up. June 30th is the day we need to wait for.

by RoseFTW on May 31, 2011 12:46 PM CDT reply actions  

I think he's signing an extension entirely because of the CBA.

I think the rolling back of contracts talk is all crazy talk. There are too many guys with too much money on their deals for the consensus of the players to agree to a roll back. They will more likely have to grandfather in old contracts if they switch to a radically different system.

I know guys like Rose and Westbrook want the roll back in terms of fairness, but in reality, I think those two guys are going to get screwed over by the players at large, and take the brunt of the new CBA with their smaller max contracts.

http://www.dabullz.com | Dabullz on Twitter | Dabullz on Facebook

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by Andrew7 on May 31, 2011 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

maybe in this climate

They overpay for someone like booz; although honestly they have nothing I would want

by Basketball Smurf on May 31, 2011 5:28 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

^This

BaB...where JBJ whines and lots of people argue with him

by BigforkBullsFan on May 31, 2011 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

i mean, this was during the "oddsmakers" segment of PTI

they just throw random guess %’s out during that.

You're my assistant! You're supposed to back me up and go get me juiceboxes whenever I want. Now go get me a juicebox!

by chibullsfan03 on Jun 1, 2011 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think it arose out of comments Howard made

during a barbecue he had for the public, and comments his publicist made. But he has not signed an extension; all he has done is said nice things about staying in Orlando — which James did too (about staying in Cleveland) the year before he left for Miami.

by Tim S. on Jun 1, 2011 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

I remember Lebron

promising about winning sbout multipule chips in cleveland.

'Don't believe in you who believe in me and don't believe in me who believes in you, but believe in you who believe in yourself'

by T.Moore on Jun 1, 2011 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

SO IT'S STILL POSSIBLE?

"And thank you to God for making me an Atheist." - Ricky Gervais

by MichaelClutchtree on Jun 2, 2011 8:50 PM CDT reply actions  

i vehemently disagree

I say we include this Dang person. But under no circumstances do we trade Deng! Give them Boozer.

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on Jun 3, 2011 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

Substitue Taj & Deng with Boozer and Multiple Picks, then we have a deal.

F Deng
F Gibson
C Howard
G F/A
G Rose

Brewer, Korver, Asik, Watson

by RoseFTW on Jun 2, 2011 11:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

why the fuck would the magic ever do that?

you guys are so delusional

"And thank you to God for making me an Atheist." - Ricky Gervais

by MichaelClutchtree on Jun 3, 2011 12:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

Because DH12 has the leverage and dictates where he wants to go.

Therefore all the Magic could do is take the best offer from a couple of teams. The rumored preferred destination, are Dallas, LA, and NJ. Dallas have no one to offer, Bynum is going no where, and Brook Lopez < Joakim Noah. Now if you offer Boozer, Noah, and multiple picks, how can the Magic say no when it’s inevitable Dwight is leaving. You hold on to Deng as much as you can, and I know Taj will be a great fit next to Dwight.

You’ve never bargain before huh, I know for sure you won’t make a good GM.

by RoseFTW on Jun 3, 2011 12:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

You think that because I don’t give an offer that will completely screw them over and be great for us makes me a bad GM?

And wait, you actually think they would accept Noah and Boozer (and a few picks) for Dwight? Yeah, I’m the bad GM when your strategy is “offer them the absolute worst deal possible for a superstar”

They actually don’t have to accept any deal if it will possibly ruin the team more, like being stuck paying Boozer and Arenas $30 million+ for the next 4 years, giving them NO WAY to rebuild

I don’t even know why I responded to this.

"And thank you to God for making me an Atheist." - Ricky Gervais

by MichaelClutchtree on Jun 3, 2011 1:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

Noah + Boozer + Multiple Picks is not the worst deal possible.

The multiple picks we give them, including the Bobcats pick is a start to rebuild. Arenas is their problem, if they say take Arenas in order to get Dwight I would. But I’m just saying if you can deal Boozer + Noah and Picks for Dwight, then go for that. If they say no to that, then include Deng. But you try and hold on to Deng as much as you can.

by RoseFTW on Jun 3, 2011 1:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well obviously if they will take Boozer+Noah. But given that won’t happen, Deng+Noah+Gibson is a much better offer.

"And thank you to God for making me an Atheist." - Ricky Gervais

by MichaelClutchtree on Jun 3, 2011 1:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'll rather keep Taj, than Booz.

If they don’t want the Booz + Noah offer, then trade our whole starting front line. Deng + Boozer + Noah + Multiple Picks for Dwight + Turk + Redick. Then we sign Tayshaun in Free Agency.

F Prince
F Gibson
C Howard
G Redick
G Rose

by RoseFTW on Jun 3, 2011 1:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

Your trades are crazy. Orlando is not going to trade its only shooting guard along with Howard.

Especially when he is signed to a reasonable contract.

The trade would be Dwight + Turk for Deng Boozer Noah and picks.

I personally don’t think Chicago is that great of a trade partner for Orlando, because they aren’t going to want to trade the farm for Dwight, and Orlando is simply not going to take Boozer back in any deal.

by MagicMark on Jun 3, 2011 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

what about this...

someone (maybe hoopshype) tweeted twolves may be shopping #2 pick and are looking for a veteran post player. is kahn dumb enough to trade twolves #2 pick for boozer and a bulls first?

bulls trade: #2 pick, bobcats pick, noah, and taj or asik
orlando trades: howard

Doesn’t seem very moral to me. Might as well take Satan’s autograph while you’re at it. - N.C.

by Illini0509 on Jun 3, 2011 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

found it, from DX
Sources say Washington & Phoenix have been the most active teams trying to trade up for Derrick Williams. T’Wolves want a “veteran big man.”

this obviously won’t happen, but i think its the only way the bulls can pull off the deal without including deng: find a third team that is willing to give up a significant rebuilding chip (star potential player on rookie deal/high draft pick/expiring contract).

Doesn’t seem very moral to me. Might as well take Satan’s autograph while you’re at it. - N.C.

by Illini0509 on Jun 3, 2011 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

if the timberpups give up Love

I think orlando bites.

  1. pick, bobcats, Noah, and Love for Howard, and timberpups get Boozer and picks and maybe another player.

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on Jun 3, 2011 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

chad ford speculates that minnesota would give up the 2 pick for varejao

and the 4. so i dont think boozer would be enough, and pairing him with love would be a huge disaster. if the bulls could somehow land love, i’d prefer to keep him next to noah, i think he would compliment him well, we’d be better on the boards and finally have that stretch 4.

Doesn’t seem very moral to me. Might as well take Satan’s autograph while you’re at it. - N.C.

by Illini0509 on Jun 3, 2011 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

oh, well I had this scenario in mind

Chi
Howard

Orlando
Noah, Love, #2 pick, Bobcats Pick

Minny
Boozer +prospects/picks

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on Jun 3, 2011 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

something like this maybe

chi
Rose/Watson
Bogans/Korver/Klay Thompson
Deng/Brewer
Gibson/Harper
Howard/Darko/Thomas

they keep there low picks for 2011 (weak draft anyway, amirite?)

orlando
Nelson/Arenas/Duhon
Q.Rich/Reddick
Hedo/Derrick Williams
Love/Bass
Noah/Anderson
+ Bobcats pick

Timberpups
Rubio/Ridnour/Flynn
Johnson/Ellington
Beasley/Webster
Boozer/Tolliver
Pekovic/Orton
+ Orlando’s Future 1st
+ Chicago’s Future 1st

This is the general idea. I’m not familiar with Minny to be honest, but you’d have to add some role players to massage the salaries a bit. I gave Chicago Darko’s contract because I think he is crappy, but I would say any crappy Minny big would go to chi for filler.

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on Jun 3, 2011 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

and with that

you should change your name to yfbbFTW

by M 80 on Jun 3, 2011 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

We'll certainly hold onto one of Boozer,Noah and Deng

So, at worst, Rose/SG/SF/Boozer/Howard is a good starting point.

by cubbybear on Jun 3, 2011 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Bulls already have $65M committed in salary for next season. They'd have to get rid of 2 of Deng/Boozer/Noah

and that’s only if the salary cap isn’t significantly lower after the new CBA. By next summer, when Howard could be a FA, they’d also have the first year of Rose’s extension or his $9M QO on the books.

Well, isn't what LeBron did last night the living embodiment of The Secret, leaving millions on the table and turning himself into a hometown villain, all for the sake of winning?
Neil Paine, basketball-reference.com

by snley on Jun 3, 2011 6:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think that should be the site's new tagline

If _______ wants to win now and for the next decade, he’ll come to Chicago.

by jpm356 on Jun 3, 2011 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Ha. That killed me.

"After Game 1, they made me and Joe’s life a living hell." - Jamal Crawford

by bleigh82 on Jun 3, 2011 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

Scott Williams?

I wish Dwight would start wearing Horace’s goggles instead.

by cubbybear on Jun 3, 2011 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

My dream trade is still Boozer + Noah + Multiple Picks for Howard + Redick

F Deng
F Gibson
C Howard
G Redick
G Rose

Best Starting 5 in the NBA

by RoseFTW on Jun 3, 2011 1:43 AM CDT reply actions  

That's why he said 'dream trade'

not ‘most probable.’

Eastern Conference Finals Assassination Missions:

Game 2, Wednesday: Mission Failed. Series tied at 1. Everyone drops 15 spots on the BaB Power Rankings.
Game 3, Sunday:

Game 1 Assassination Method: Suffocation.

RIP Randall Mario Poffo, better known as 'Macho Man' Randy Savage, who died of a car crash due to a heart attack on May 20, 2011. Another part of my creative childhood has moved on. May he rest in peace...

by Dr. Handsome, D.D.S. on Jun 3, 2011 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I don't understand why it matters who we trade.

Getting back Howard is going to be a net positive as long as we keep Rose. Try to make the best deal possible but in the end you agree to anything that doesn’t involve Rose. Dwight Howard can solve our offensive problems by taking a huge load of off Derrick, while maintaining our Defensive identity just by standing in the paint.

by cubs72191 on Jun 3, 2011 11:15 AM CDT reply actions  

While I agree that it will be a “net positive”, I would not do the deal if we had to take Gilbert Arenas. It may be great to get Howard, but to have an untradeable contract burning $17-22 million dollars a year for 4 years will cripple the franchise.

"And thank you to God for making me an Atheist." - Ricky Gervais

by MichaelClutchtree on Jun 3, 2011 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed

Unless we trade them Boozer, they won’t give us Arenas. At least I hope not….

My guess is that in value per salary, the Bulls players are like this:

Rose(duh),Gibson,Deng,Brewer,Watson,Asik,Noah,Korver,Boozer

or something like that. Unless the Bulls really want to get rid of Boozer, they won’t take back Arenas.

by cubbybear on Jun 3, 2011 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's likely that any trade involving Howard will include Turkoglu or Arenas.

That’s just the reality of the situation. I wouldn’t at that point expect as good of a haul as Denver got for Carmelo, because it would be helping Orlando get out from at least one of its terrible contracts.

by MagicMark on Jun 3, 2011 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

yeah, one of those guys would have to be included

i’d be much more willing to swallow the turk contract that arenas’.

Look
I didn’t want to offend anyone by saying the "f" word or generalizing my statement to any particular sex by saying "gays" or lesbians" or "bi’s" so "homos" is the most "politically correct" term. I’m just trying to be more tact in a tactless blog.

by Hindut Patrol on Feb 15, 2011 2:51 PM EST

by Jaina on Jun 3, 2011 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree

I would rather take Turkoglu’s contract than Arenas. Plus i think Hedo can help more than Arenas will.

by sports_aficionado on Jun 5, 2011 6:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

Everyone but Rose should be available for Dwight.

The Bulls should try to hold on to Deng as much as possible in any Dwight Howard deal. But if Deng is what really seals the deal, then no doubt the Bulls should include him in the trade. I have a feeling Orlando might want the Bulls to include Deng, along with Boozer, Noah, and multiple draft picks. People might think it’s insane, but if it’s a sure thing that you can get Howard without giving up Rose, then you do it.

If Dwight does become available, the Bulls might have to follow the Heat’s blueprint back in 2004 when they traded 3 core players (Odom, Butler, and Grant) for a dominant center in Shaq. I don’t want to give up Deng, but if the Magic wants him to be part of the trade, then the Bulls have no choice but to include Thib’s glue guy.

Bulls Receive: Dwight Howard, Hedo Turkoglu, and JJ Redick
Magic Receive: Joakim Noah, Carlos Boozer, Luol Deng, and Three Future First Round Picks

Bulls get the most dominant center in the NBA and two reliable shooters who would fit well offensively with Dwight and Derrick. The Magic in exchange will get a new front line that will be in the Top 5 in the NBA. They also get future first picks, including a valuable one from the Bobcats. They lose their franchise player, but get 3 solid players that will help them compete in the playoffs.

When you have the opportunity to acquire the best center in league, you do everything you can to acquire him. Everyone but Rose, should be available.

by RoseFTW on Jun 10, 2011 1:14 AM CDT reply actions  

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