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FanPost: Off-Season Homework Assignments

[From the FanPosts. I'm apparently on a vacation (not intentionally, maybe just a little burnt-out still post-playoffs) and this was one of several quality posts from the holiday weekend -ed.]

In spite of the gut-wrenching way this season ended, it was still a pretty darn good season.  Rose firmly entrenched himself as one of the best players in the league, the Bulls developed a dominating defense, the Bulls achieved the league's best overall record and played five hard fought games in the Eastern conference finals.  These achievements all eclipsed most people's preseason projections.

Nonetheless, the Bulls are a young team, and as such have room to improve and push farther into the playoffs.  To realize this potential it is important for each Bull's player to improve upon their game during the off-season.  As such, I have assigned off-season homework assignments to each player.  I realize most players have multiple flaws or areas where they can improve, but I believe it is only reasonable for a player to address one or two weaknesses in the off-season.  Therefore, I have given every player a primary focus and a secondary focus.

I also expect management to perform some roster-tweaking in the off-season, but for the purposes of this exercise used the Bulls current roster, choosing not to speculate on what next year's roster will look like.   I also feel it is ridiculous to ask players to address weaknesses they are physically incapable of performing (asking Korver to work on becoming a lock-down defender), so although players may have greater weaknesses than the ones I address, I only included weaknesses I felt can actually be improved upon.

 

If you are too lazy to read every player’s assignment I provided a summary at the end of the article.

Star-divide

 

Assignments:


Derrick Rose:

Primary Focus:  3 point shot.  Derrick made great strides with his three point shot this season, but it still is not consistent enough.  I always felt it took two years to add range.  In year one he proved he could hit a three, in year two he needs to consistently hit the three.  This would obviously open up driving and passing lanes for Rose to exploit.

Secondary Focus:  Watch and mimic film.  Nearly, decided on both initiating a post game and improving his defense.  I ultimately decided on watching and mimicking game film of Chris Paul.  At the present moment Rose is able to exploit his ample physical talents to dominate players and teams.  This physical dominance has come at the expense of out strategizing his opponent.  Paul is exceptional at this.  Rose needs to learn and re-enact Paul’s habits to better create open shots for his teammates and create shots for himself more easily.  I don’t think Rose will ever be able to match Paul or Nash’s ability to manipulate defenses, but to add a slightly above average understanding of defense manipulation to his already ample physical abilities would spell doom for opponents.

Another reason I nearly decided on defense and a post game, is because those are tangible skills that one can work on in the off-season.  I am uncertain if defense manipulation can be achieved without actually playing against motivated and organized defenses.  Succinctly, I don’t know if defense manipulation can be learned during the off-season.

 

Keith Bogans:

Primary Focus:  3 point shot.  Bogans is known as a defender and spot up shooter.  His defensive reputation is accurate in that he is a solid but unspectacular defender (except according to Dr. Jack Ramsey), but his spot up shooting needs to be improved.  For the season he shot a very respectable 38% from three, but his percentage needs to be higher.  Though, 38% is good (1.1 per game off 2.9 shots), given the excellent quality of his shots his percentages needs to be above 40.  He needs to be able to punish teams for doubling Rose and sagging into the lane.  I don’t expect Bogans to be able to hit contested threes, but I do expect him to make the wide-fucking-open threes at an extremely high percentage.

Secondary Focus:  Free thow line jumper (within a foot or two).  I don’t mean free throws because Bogans doesn't get to the line.  Rather I feel Bogans needs to be able to provide more diverse offense than merely three pointers (77% of all his shot attempts were threes).  The Bulls offense needs more diversity and Bogans taking this many threes is predictable.  Therefore, I suggest Bogans to work on a free throw line pull-up jumper.  I don’t believe Bogans has the athletic ability to score at the hoop through cutting.  If Bogan’s defender attention is diverted elsewhere, Bogans can flash to the free throw line catch and shoot.  This would hopefully also open up new passing lanes for Rose.  If Rose drives on the opposite side of the court and the defense collapses he may be unable to deliver a pass to the three point line.  If Bogan’s defender was the one that collapsed, if he flashes to the free throw area it should provide an easier pass for Rose, a high percentage shot for Bogans, and the space needed for Bogans to shoot.

 

Luol Deng:

Primary Focus:  3 point shot.  Again, Luol did very well improving his three point shot, but the Bull’s would benefit from its continued improvement.  As stated previously, I felt adding range was a two year process, so this should be well within Deng’s capabilities.  In addition to improving the overall percentage, I’d like to see Deng improve the speed of his release.  Often times during the Miami series, Deng was open, received the pass, but James was able to close out on him.  a quicker release would allow to convert these attempts, though the mere fact it was Lebron James cannot be discounted.

Secondary Focus:  Finishing in transition.  I feel every fan thinks their team is terrible in transition because they only remember the blown opportunities.  Regardless, Deng’s open court skills are rather limited inspite of having the physical tools needed.  He doesn’t have great speed or agility, but in transition he is usually taller, longer, and stronger than the defensive counterparts.  Specifically, I’d like to see Deng work on finishing at pace, but more importantly pass more effectively on the break.  When Deng runs the break, the Bulls end up with a far more challenging shot than is warranted.  Even if Deng has players breaking on the wings, he will still drive at the last defender and force up a contested shot.  If Deng learns to use his teammates more effectively, the Bulls can create more uncontested shots, as they should be since they have numbers.

 

Carlos Boozer:

Primary Focus:  Talk with Kurt Thomas to learn how to play old man defense.  Boozer will never be able to overwhelm players with his athleticism, but he should still be able to play better defense.  An undersized but strong power forward can play effective defense by utilizing positioning and smarts.  Kurt Thomas employs both effectively, in spite of being physically less gifted than Boozer.  Boozer’s primary task for the off season is to adopt Thomas’ defensive playing style.

Secondary Focus:  Offensive footwork and repertoire.  I came very close to assigning the task of perfecting his midrange shot.  Primarily because I don’t know if he will be physically able to finish around the hoop and opening up the paint for Rose is the next best thing.  Nonetheless, if Booze can become a legitimate finishing threat at the hoop and from the post he might be able to become the secondary scoring option the Bulls so desperately need.  Again, Boozer will have to rely on old-man skills around the hoop to improve his effectiveness.  Utilizing his good strength by employing solid footwork and adding a repertoire of two or three shots (with counters) Boozer hopefully will be able to fake and out position players to create makeable shots for himself.  Essentially, Boozer needs to add diversity to his shot selection down low to prevent his shot from getting blocked, as happened so often in the playoffs.  A simple up and under move could be vitally effective within Boozer’s game.

 

Joakim Noah:

Primary Focus:  Mid-range shot.  Through November and mid-December Joakim Noah was establishing himself as the second best center in the NBA.  Noah had tough defense, great rebounding, and a nice scoring bounce.  For the season Noah averaged 11.6 ppg, but in Oct. and Nov. he averaged 15.6ppg.  Part of the drop involved Boozer playing and drawing shots away from Noah, but Noah’s hand injury also played a very large role in his diminished scoring.  The shot most noticeably absent from Noah’s arsenal after the injury was his mid-range jump shot located just outside the free throw line.  Noah was not a knock-down shooter, but this shot did possess the ability to punish defenders sagging off of him.  If Noah can recapture this shot it he can become a legitimate scoring option.  Noah is already a good passer, this jumper would make opposing bigs defend him more closely opening up avenues for backdoor cuts.  It would also create space for either Rose to penetrate, or Noah to utilize his good foot speed to drive against the other centers.

Secondary Focus:  Ambidextrous finishing.  Another byproduct of the hand injury was Noah’s finishing around the hoop.  Noah has great length which should help in finishing around the hoop, but Noah has only one real move down low.  Sure, he can score on tips and put backs, but when covered he defaults to the left-handed high-bank shot.  A shot which was unconventional at first, but became rather predictable as the season wore on.  With defenders sitting on that shot, Noah struggled to score inside.  For Noah’s second homework assignment, he needs to continue to polish this shot, but also utilize his right hand to finish.  A right-handed baby hook and faking the shot with the left but going up with the right would be excellent complements to his current shot, and significantly upgrade his offensive arsenal.  Additionally, if Noah can consistently convert a right-handed high banking shot, and makes the mid-range shot detailed previously, he’d be able to drive and finish with either hand.  Noah will never become a primary scoring option, but if he makes these adjustments, he can become a significant and diverse scorer both inside and out.


CJ Watson:

Primary Focus:  Consistency.  Watson had some excellent stretches of play, but he also had some incredibly bad stretches of play.  The Bulls need Watson to consistently lead the second unit, or else the Bulls risk overplaying Rose and Deng.  These players need rest, and I felt they became exhausted during the Miami series.  When Watson was 'on' he provided the offensive lift to allow Rose and Deng (to a lesser extent as sometimes he plays with Watson), to sit and rest, thus allowing them to play without fatigue hindering their play.  I don't necessarily know how to improve consistency in the off-season as it seems like it requires playing against organized defenses to be addressed.

Secondary Focus:  Free throw shooting.  Watson is not like Derrick Rose in that he does not have an extreme set of physical abilities which need to be refined.  Watson plays good defense, is reasonably adept at creating shots, penetrating, and converted 39% of his threes.  If he can address the consistently, he already possesses the kills to be a very good back-up point guard.  I would like him to improve his free throw shooting.  He shot a career low this season at 74%, and though he is career 80% shooter, the Bulls can use an free-throw ace to close out games late.  The Bulls struggled with free throws, and if the other team needs to foul, inserting Watson as another free throw shooter would greatly help the Bulls. 

 

Ronnie Brewer:

Primary Focus:  3 point shot.  Brewer already excels at defense, running the baseline, and finishing in traffic.  All skills that are vital for the Bulls to be successful.  The main caveat with Brewer is his lack of range.  This allows his defender to sag, harming the efforts of the other players on the team.  Brewer has shown the ability to flash to the baseline to await a pass for a dunk, however often times the lane was too crowded to have a passing lane.  Brewer therefore needs to be able to punish a sagging defender in another way.  My recommendation is the three point shot.  Brewer quietly improved his outside jumper this season, yet it is still a ways from being strong enough to deter his defender from double-teaming and/or sagging off of him.  A 3-point shot converted at a 35% rate should be sufficient to force his defender from cheating off him.

Secondary Focus:  Ball-handling.  Another primary problem with the Bulls were the lack of ball-handlers outside of Rose and Watson.  Brewer is athletic, big, and a decent passer.  If teams press on Rose or Watson, Brewer should be able to use his athleticism and size to (A) provide a nice target for a pressure release pass and (B) have the skills and size to initiate a 4 on 3 to punish teams for pressing.  I don't expect Brewer to become a second creator over the off-season, but I do expect him to build the requisite ball-handling to be a press-release valve.

 

Kyle Korver:

Primary Focus:  Jumper of the curl.  In spite of the Miami series, Korver's outside shot is solid and does not need improving.  What could be improved are the number of sweet spots from 2 point range.  Specifically, improvement of his existing 2-point shot running off a curl and double screen, as well as another sweet spot to add diversity to the offensive plays run through Korver.  With Rose and Deng out, the offense runs through Korver, but Korver had two separate plays run for him: a double-screen opening a three, or a double-screen opening a 15 ft jumper.  A few counters were included, like the touch pass to the screener, but more diversity is necessary for the Bulls to relieve Rose of the offensive burden, and to improve the sometimes stagnant offense of the bench mob.  Adding the second sweet spot, and transforming the elbow jumper into a deadly shot should improve the offense.  Specifically a pump-fake one dribble pull up would add the necessary diversity and counter to maximize Korver's ability as a shooter.  

Secondary Focus:  Ball-handling.  Korver runs with the starters late in games.  He provides the shooting to stretch the defense enabling Rose and others to better work the interior.  Within this late game line-up Korver became incredibly one dimensional (basically, standing at the three point line and waiting).  If teams pressure Rose, Korver needs to be able to initiate the offense.  As such he needs to improve his ball handling.  I don't believe this is asking much, as the situations I'm envisioning are when teams double Derrick hard, thus Korver simply needs to be able to initiate the offense in a 4 v 3 situation.  Within the closing unit, Korver's movement stops (except if the specific play is called for him), he is unable to take advantage of 4 v 3's because lacks mobility.  The improved ball-handling should address this issue.  It would also help with the pump-fake one-dribble jumper stated above.

 

Taj Gibson:

Primary Focus:  Mid-range shot. Gibson brings a lot of intangibles to the team: energy, shot-blocking, speed and athleticism at the power forward position, but his temporary lapses in cornerstone components of basketball lacks at times.  Much like Noah, Gibson opened the season on fire from mid-range.  Unlike Noah, his preferred shot was the 14-15 ft. baseline jumper.  As the season progressed Gibson's ability to convert this shot diminished significantly.  At times during the season, Gibson struggled to score when left open.  It wasn’t a one-dimensional failure either.  Gibson struggled both with the mid-range shot and finishing inside.  After much thought, Gibson’s primary task is to regain his mid-range shot.  It would provide spacing and/or punish collapsing defenders, thus allowing Rose/Deng/Noah/Boozer to score inside, and further draw defenders away from the free throw line for Bogans.  I specifically request the baseline jumper as it is an easy pass to complete off dribble penetration.

Secondary Focus:  Discipline.  The other cornerstone Taj struggled with was defensive discipline.  As stated previously, he possesses good intangibles, but the effort, energy and shot-blocking sometimes translated into stupid and ticky-tack fouls.  Taj must become more disciplined on defense for two reasons; 1) ensure he can play in the game with aggression; 2) Minor and stupid fouls waste an otherwise good defensive possession.  It is demoralizing for a team to play solid defense for 16-20 secs of a possession only to yield two unnecessary free throws.

 

Omer Asik:

Primary Focus:  Finishing.  Omer is big and athletic.  You can tell his team in Turkey told him to focus on defense and rebounding because as a rookie Asik already excelled in these facets.  Asik’s offensive prowess however was problematic.  He struggled to score unless he had a wide open path to the basket, and failed to convert through contact.  Therefore, it is pertinent for Asik to be able to finish in and around the hoop.  He needs to gain the strength to finish through contact, and add one or two basic moves enabling him to convert if he can't get the dunk (bank shot, baby hook, etc.).  If Asik can prevent himself from being an offensive liability he could provide invaluable minutes with his defense.

Secondary Focus:  Free throw shooting.  If Asik can improve his finishing, he could very well become a beast in the paint.  Most beastly players in the paint draw lots of fouls.  It is important for Asik to convert these attempts and prevent a hack-a-sik technique and the demoralizing 0 for 2 free throw trips.  Primarily, if Asik does add an average inside game, we can't have him be a liability on the free throw line.


Kurt Thomas:

Primary Focus:  Spread the knowledge.  Thomas is old and experienced.  As the series against Miami illustrated the Bulls are young, have lapses in judgement, concentration, and lack the individual morsels of knowledge and tricks which make the game easier on the players.  Thomas knows these tricks, and needs to share them with his teammates. 

Secondary Focus:  Stay in shape.  The dude is old.  Yet, he was seemingly always prepared to play.  This can be attributed to a great mental approach to the game, as well as good overall fitness.  It is important for Thomas to maintain this fitness, thus allowing him to be ready when called upon.

 

Thibs:

Primary Focus:  Review the season long game tape.  Thibs was a rookie coach.  Throughout the season he inevitably made rookie mistakes.  Thibs needs to rewatch the season, identify these mistakes, and devise a plan to remedy these mistakes.  Whether it involves rotations, personel line-ups, match-ups, situational plays, time outs, game management, motivating players, practices, resting players, arguing with the refs, he needs to review the season and extract the positives within his coaching while addressing the weaknesses.  Hopefully, this examination and analysis allows Thibs to be far better prepared for a wide range of issues likely to befall the team next season.  The end hope is through a revision in coaching tactics and philosophy (I'm talking about mild adjustments not a complete overhaul) the team will be better prepared for a deep playoff run, either through having had more reps performing the tasks necessary deep in the playoffs, or being better rested.

Secondary Focus:  Spend a solid chunk of time focusing on the offense.  The Bulls’ shortcomings on offense lead to their downfall in the playoffs.  Having seen an entire season of game tape and the magnification of weaknesses experienced during the playoffs, Thibs needs to identify what worked, what didn’t and devise more effective plays.  This could mean more off-the-ball movement, more Derrick in a secondary role, a few more plays for the other players to execute without Derrick creating.  I particularly like the last option, I am all for lightening the load on Rose’s shoulders.


Summary:  The perimeter players need to work on their three balls, the bigs on finishing and mid-range jumpers.  The individual tasks primarily dealt with improving the offensive efficiency and offensive diversity.

 

I intentionally didn't address Scalabrine or Butler as the post was already over 3,000 words and neither of them played significant minutes.

 

Any assignments you'd like to assign?

Poll
Which player do you think has the most room for growth?
Rose
221 votes
Bogans
9 votes
Deng
4 votes
Boozer
30 votes
Noah
125 votes
Watson
3 votes
Brewer
12 votes
Korver
2 votes
Gibson
75 votes
Asik
190 votes
Thomas
4 votes
Thibs
21 votes

696 votes | Poll has closed

FanPosts are user-created posts from the BlogABull community, and are to be treated as the opinions and views of that particular user, not that of the blogger or blog community as a whole.

Comment 229 comments  |  6 recs  | 

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we’re still not past this

'Don't believe in you who believe in me and don't believe in me who believes in you, but believe in you who believe in yourself'

by T.Moore on May 31, 2011 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's not "hate" at all

I still love Rose. He’s still one of my favorite players in the league (probably THE favorite), but I just think my days of believing we can win a title with him as the best player, are over with. We’re gonna need to bring somebody in that’s better, or about as good as he is in order to truly contend (which I don’t think is that shocking of a statement, really).

Recovering...

by Juiceboxjerry on May 31, 2011 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I just think my days of believing we can win a title with him as the best player, are over with

I would think that too…..if Rose wasn’t 22. I mean just think of all the people who said the same thing about Jordan till he got Pippen as finally someone who could take pressure off him. Look at Chris Paul, he is arguably the best PG of the decade and he has had less success than Rose in the playoff at an older age. He’s obviously their best player. Kobe Bryant needed Shaq and then needed Gasol. Duncan needed Ginobili, etc. I don’t only think we can win with Rose being the best player, I think we will….but the margin of talent can’t be a great as it is right now in between players.

"truTV is like BET for white folks." - Chuck

by macjack09 on May 31, 2011 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I mean just think of all the people who said the same thing about Jordan till he got Pippen as finally someone who could take pressure off him.

Let’s not compare Rose to Jordan. Ever.

Look at Chris Paul, he is arguably the best PG of the decade and he has had less success than Rose in the playoff at an older age.

CP3 was facing much better teams, and had less talent than Derrick. Plus, Rose has never had a season statistically that approaches Paul’s best.

Kobe Bryant needed Shaq and then needed Gasol.

Kobe is probably the best comp for Rose imo. Right down to the idiotic (at times) shot selection. Unfortunately Rose is a pg, so those shots are a little more baffling, but still. I do think those two are similar in terms of impact. Now we just have to find a Shaq…

Recovering...

by Juiceboxjerry on May 31, 2011 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

I’m not comparing Rose to Jordan in a talent sense. That’s not even a question. But I’ve read a lot of archive reports of people who were saying Jordan couldn’t win it all. In no way, shape, or form am I comparing the two on a talent level. I’m saying Ebony had Ivory, Milli had Vanilli, Chad Ochocinco and TJ, Jordan had Pippen, Wade has Lebron, etc. Everyone needs a running mate.

"truTV is like BET for white folks." - Chuck

by macjack09 on May 31, 2011 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

Which isn’t to say Rose wasn’t deserving, he was. But it shouldn’t be used as a “checkmate!” for arguments. I would put Rose into that Barkley/Malone category of MVP winners. And how many rings do those guys have?

Recovering...

by Juiceboxjerry on May 31, 2011 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

cuz they ran into each other?

And MJ in the Finals?

I get clients down to 5% body fat with ease you fucking idiot. - dakoose

by Trey23 on Jun 4, 2011 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

I disagree

I think the Spurs team that he lost to a few years back was better (He lost to the Spurs right?). Plus I’m more talking about the teams he had to beat in the playoffs. The Pacers and Hawks both sucked this year.

Recovering...

by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 1, 2011 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Right?

Sometimes I wish he’d just go away

by Stacey_Is_King on May 31, 2011 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

That's very grown up of you

Wanting someone to leave just cause they don’t share your viewpoint.

Besides, I’m not even sure what I said that would bother you. Just cause I don’t think he can be the best player on a championship team?

Recovering...

by Juiceboxjerry on May 31, 2011 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

It's not just the viewpoint part

It’s the fact you keep saying the same anti-Rose crap over and over.

"The advanced metrics guys do not like Derrick Rose very much." - Bills Simmons podcast 2/4

by RogersPark Kris on May 31, 2011 7:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's my problem

the fact that it’s viewed as “anti-Rose”. I don’t even understand what I said that’s so bad. I’ll admit that I was being a bit of a jerk right after the Miami series, but what is so bad about discussing these things?

It’s better than reading and talking about the same “Boozer sucks” things every day

Recovering...

by Juiceboxjerry on May 31, 2011 7:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, Booz sucks.

Most of the stuff you say about Rose is nuts. I get my hate out in game threads, but I don’t bring that shit into the real discussions.

by dakoose on Jun 1, 2011 11:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, I'd amend that to

‘you say idiotic things very frequently’

by Stacey_Is_King on May 31, 2011 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Funniest part is that you've still yet to say what exactly I said that you have a problem with

and/or present an argument against it. I guess it’s just easier to call someone an idiot, huh?

Recovering...

by Juiceboxjerry on May 31, 2011 8:49 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Even if you don't think you are, you're being a hater. And it's incredibly annoying

How in God’s name did you reach the conclusion that our 22-year-old MVP will never be good enough to lead this team to a championship?? Does that even sound right when you say it out loud?

Not to mention the other (literally) dozens of instances where you’ve made incredible short-sighted, illogical comments about Rose that you’d expect from a Rose hater. And the fact that you throw in ‘and I’m not being a hater’ at the end of all of these comments makes it even worse.

by Stacey_Is_King on May 31, 2011 9:09 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Because I don't think Rose can be the best player on a championship team?

Let me go a little further, I have my doubts about whether any pg can be the best player on a champion. But particularly a shoot first player like Rose (and when I say “shoot first” try to ignore all the negative connotations that come with that. It’s not that I think he’s selfish, but I don’t like that he’s our primary scorer).

As for the short sighted, hater(ish) comments you’re referring to, I think most of those came immediately following Game 5. I don’t remember many commenters (even you) giving me this much shit prior to that. Admittedly, i said some dumb things out of frustration during and after that game, but that doesn’t mean their wasn’t some truth in it.

I still don’t think I said anything wrong in THIS thread, it feels like you’re just ready to pounce after the other stuff.

(Also, Rose winning MVP should not be used as proof for why he is so good. Plenty of guys have won MVP and never won a title.)

Recovering...

by Juiceboxjerry on May 31, 2011 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Correction: Rose winning MVP should not be used as proof as to why “he can be the best player on a Champion”

It can definitely be used as proof to show that he’s good

Recovering...

by Juiceboxjerry on May 31, 2011 9:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Dot dot dot

'Don't believe in you who believe in me and don't believe in me who believes in you, but believe in you who believe in yourself'

by T.Moore on May 31, 2011 9:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Here we go...

Firstly, whatever thought process led you to this conclusion is faulty. We lost 2 really tight games in a row to the EC champs, and all of a sudden that makes it clear that Rose can’t be our best player? That is a clear and blatant case of overreacting AND short-sightedness. I’d liken that to saying the Heat would never win a title if we beat them this year.

Secondly, Rose isn’t a ‘shoot first’ PG, he’s our first option on offense. There’s a clear difference, namely the fact that a shoot-first pg is generally thought of as someone who either is a ballhog, or whose passing skills are so weak that the only way they can contribute is by scoring.

And finally, I think it’s incredibly foolish to imply that Rose will never improve enough to lead us to a chip. He’s 22. YET, he’s already won an MVP. Why’s that so hard to understand? He’s not done getting better, but you’re writing him off for some reason. That’s like saying Durant won’t reach that level either because his team lost to the Mavs.

by Stacey_Is_King on May 31, 2011 9:32 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

Fine then.

You disagree with me. You should have written this in the beginning. What I said still wasn’t “hating” though…

Recovering...

by Juiceboxjerry on May 31, 2011 9:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

since you have a hard on for chris paul

why don’t you go join the Hornets blog and stay there.

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on May 31, 2011 11:39 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

It seems to me that shoot first pgs have

more titles than the pass first variety. Other than Magic, I can’t think of a “true point guard” that has won a title, let alone led a team there.

I really believe that if James Harden was on the Bulls, they’d be NBA champions. Thus, I think its crazy to say Rose could never be the best player on a championship team. He put up 25 and 8 this year. He could drop 27 and 9 next year on better efficiency. He is going to keep getting better.

by Basketball Smurf on Jun 1, 2011 2:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe I'm just not thrilled

with the idea of your franchise guy consistently being the smallest player on the court. For example, even though I do think Chris Paul is better, I have my doubts about whether you can win a title with him as your best player. So it’s not exactly an anti-Rose thing.

My initial argument that got people upset was just that we need another superstar that is bout as good, or better, than Rose (doesn’t necessarily have to be better, because there aren’t many players obviously better than Rose). I don’t think that’s really a controversial thing to say.

Recovering...

by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 1, 2011 7:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

I just don't think it's a very convincing argument.

The Pistons did it (both the 80s version and the ’04 version), and the Heat did it with Wade (fine, not the smallest, but the difference between him and Rose is negligible).

The problem with that argument is “need”. Would it help if we had another MVP caliber player on the team? Obviously. But I’m not sure that anyone can definitively say that this Bulls team won’t be able to win a championship without another superstar.

Rose can get better, Noah too, Deng, Taj, Asik. This is a really young team that is already contending for a championship, no matter how close you think we played the Heat or how good you think they are. I think you probably need a little distance before you go writing off our chances for the next 5 years.

by jpm356 on Jun 1, 2011 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

DWade is an inch taller than Derrick.

This team can play with Miami and it’s just in its infancy; the best player is still a baby and getting loads better.

by dakoose on Jun 1, 2011 11:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

haters gonna hate

Why can’t Rose win the championship next year? Why not him?

by cubbybear on May 31, 2011 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Holy fucking shit.

eat. sleep. hoop. repeat. become legendary.

by Sir Buckets on May 31, 2011 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

you're fucking full of it

I get clients down to 5% body fat with ease you fucking idiot. - dakoose

by Trey23 on Jun 4, 2011 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

No, not really

That series was probably the worst I’ve taken a loss ever as a sports fan. That was an all-timer.

Although that isn’t entirely the reason I have that opinion about Rose. Sure, it probably shades it a little, but not by much. I mean, he was, without question, the main reason we lost that series. Obviously we don’t get to that point without him, and we’d be a totally different team if he wasn’t on it, but if we’re just talking about that one series, he’s the reason.

Going 8-27,then following that up with a 9-29 in the next game, in games that went down to the wire, is a pretty remarkable thing to do.

That being said, I’m not here to try and keep harping on this. I’m done as far as that goes. I just think the opinion that we’re out of the playoffs because the periphery players is pretty ridiculous

Recovering...

by Juiceboxjerry on May 31, 2011 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

Taj Gibson was the Bulls second best 4rth quarter scorer

and without Rose, CJ Watson is your primary ball handler and distributor.

The Bulls have no other shot creators and really only Brewer is athletic enough amoung the wing players to start fast breaks.

Yet it’s “It’s definitely all on Rose”.

SMH.

"The advanced metrics guys do not like Derrick Rose very much." - Bills Simmons podcast 2/4

by RogersPark Kris on May 31, 2011 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

I personally think all of that is a by-product of Rose taking too many shots

If the ball was spread around more, those guys all have plenty of talent and ability to make shots.

Recovering...

by Juiceboxjerry on May 31, 2011 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

He's taking the shots

because his teammates were not willing to shoot or unable to get off anywhere near a good look. Ignore it all you want, but it happened like clockwise in the fourth quarters.

"The advanced metrics guys do not like Derrick Rose very much." - Bills Simmons podcast 2/4

by RogersPark Kris on May 31, 2011 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

And honestly

as much shit people throw on Westbrook, the same thing happened to him.

Durant was worse at creating shots which forced Russel to take some terrible shots and force TO’s.

"The advanced metrics guys do not like Derrick Rose very much." - Bills Simmons podcast 2/4

by RogersPark Kris on May 31, 2011 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

the one shooter on Bulls goes cold

your post presence is non existent, and you only have 24 seconds and a double team to deal with. I think he did as best as he could. He was never going to shoot anywhere near 50% with those factors in place.

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on May 31, 2011 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

If lebron can't be clutch

he knows Wade can help him in that department. Same with DIrk and Terry (he called Terry their closer). Would be nice for Rose to have that guy too. Funny the 2 guys have that peace of mind are in the finals

'Don't believe in you who believe in me and don't believe in me who believes in you, but believe in you who believe in yourself'

by T.Moore on May 31, 2011 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

You make some good points, and it' not like I said he was bad

Actually, you’re basically reinforcing my point that we NEED another really good player. Which is the reason I’m so down in the first place. It’s not like I want them to trade Rose, I just don’t think the team will be able to contend as currently constructed

(Although I still do think we should have been able to beat this variation of the Heat, as currently constructed. We were the deeper team, with supposedly the best defense in the league. That’s why I’m so worried going forward)

Recovering...

by Juiceboxjerry on May 31, 2011 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

If Rose buries that jumper in game 4, we're not having this discussion.

If Thomas played more than Asik, Korver shot his 30% from downtown and the Bulls ran the PnP effectively with Boozer or Korver a few more times, I think we’re going to the finals.

Maybe that’s just what I keep telling myself, but we were damn close. The Heat are going to get a better supporting cast, but Wade will become more limited as well.

by cubbybear on May 31, 2011 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Duh!

we all realize the bulls need another good/great player to help Rose but you just completely wrote off Rose. smh

by Slick Ric on May 31, 2011 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Who "wrote off" Rose?

Are you guys all 10 years old? Is this some kind of joke? We can’t even have a decent discussion about the ceiling of the best player on the team without everyone freaking out? Fucking stupid.

Recovering...

by Juiceboxjerry on May 31, 2011 7:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

You're not having decent discussions.

You say some offhand, unfair remarks about Rose and then faint disgust when called on it. Again it’s your opinion but you did write him off as being the best player on a Championship team. You’ve all but minimized his MVP as an award given out by the judges on American Idol, and you’ve gone on to say you’d take Paul over Rose and that he’s the reason guys like Boozer aren’t better. You opinion but still.

Hey Rose. I don't see the appeal!

by Dils on May 31, 2011 7:45 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

You say some offhand, unfair remarks about Rose and then faint disgust when called on it.

LOL, show me these remarks please. Seriously, if you’re gonna say that, at least tell me what I said that’s so unfair.

That i think the MVP is voted on mostly by idiots? I stand by that. Saying Paul is better than Rose? is that even an unfair thing to say? I think most people on this site agree with that (plus, where did I even say that on here? You’re bringing up old stuff).

That I don’t think Rose can be the best player on a Champion? I chose my words carefully there, and I don’t think I said anything wrong. If it bothers you hearing someone say that, I recommend you get thicker skin, instead of getting mad at that person. Debates like that are exactly what this blog should be about, imo

Recovering...

by Juiceboxjerry on May 31, 2011 8:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Dude I'm not the one getting mad

It’s all discussion and fun. Are you trying to do some kinda reverse psychology routine? You’re the one that said:

Are you guys all 10 years old? Is this some kind of joke? We can’t even have a decent discussion about the ceiling of the best player on the team without everyone freaking out? Fucking stupid.

That sounds like the person that should get thicker skin. All I’m saying is stand by what you say. You’ve been borderline trolling lately when it comes to Rose and you know it. That’s cool but other people who disagree are going to react.

Hey Rose. I don't see the appeal!

by Dils on May 31, 2011 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Well, I said that because people are telling me they want me off the site

and that I’m being a troll, and shit like that. How should I respond?

And my “thicker skin” comment was not about you getting angry, but because you termed my remarks “unfair”. I don’t think there was anything wrong with what I wrote, hence needing thicker skin.

Recovering...

by Juiceboxjerry on May 31, 2011 8:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well I wouldn't want you off the site

That’s just stupid. You’re a valued member. But it’s my opinion that some of your criticism is unfair to Rose. That’s not a product of thin skin but just my opinion.

Hey Rose. I don't see the appeal!

by Dils on May 31, 2011 8:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well

He’s a 22 year old MVP. He’s not worse than a Top 3 player at his position. He was a First Team All-NBA last year – and he was the youngest member. He has improved his numbers, both raw and advanced, at a really high rate in his first three years. Of the 10 players on the First and Second All-NBA Team, 5 of them would be at least 30 years old at some point next year. He has the Russell-Jordan-Kobe mentality (WEE-UNNING is all that matters).

So, saying “I’m not sure” or “I have doubts” about Derrick being the best player on a championship team is one thing; thinking “Derrick can’t be the best player on a championship team” can be considered an offhand and unfair remark.

Oh, and BTW, during the Jordan-Bird-Magic era, ISIAH THOMAS was the best player on a back to back championship team. ANd I don’t think Isiah has shit on Derrick.

Derrick+Joakim+Booz > Ray-Ray, The Wheelchair guy, that stupid martian and the punk who only messes with 6 foot foreign point guards and 3 point shooting centers

by poker_punker on Jun 1, 2011 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

ANd I don’t think Isiah has shit on Derrick.

We might differ a little bit there. I mean Rose is without a doubt my favorite player in the NBA…..but at the end of the day, one’s a HOFer and the other just one his first MVP. Let’s take a little time…

"truTV is like BET for white folks." - Chuck

by macjack09 on Jun 1, 2011 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

*won

"truTV is like BET for white folks." - Chuck

by macjack09 on Jun 1, 2011 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

My bad

what I meant is, that at the same stage of their careers, Isiah wasn’t nearly as good as Derrick is. And I do believe that Derrick would end up being much better than Isiah, but we’ll have to wait for that.

Derrick+Joakim+Booz > Ray-Ray, The Wheelchair guy, that stupid martian and the punk who only messes with 6 foot foreign point guards and 3 point shooting centers

by poker_punker on Jun 1, 2011 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Was Isiah the best player on those teams?

Let’s look at the 1989-90 Detroit Pistons. During the regular season, according to PER, Isiah just barely beats out Dumars. According to Wins Shares, though, Lambier, Rodman, and Dumars all beat out Isiah. And according to Win Shares per 48 minutes, no less than seven other Pistons beat out Isiah’s very average score. During the playoffs it’s a different story. Isiah Thomas improves tremendously and is the best by all three advanced stat measures.

In the 1988-89 regular season four teammates are ahead of Isiah in PER (one of those can be tossed out because he only played 7 minutes), three in WS, and eleven in WS per 48. In the playoffs Vinnie Johnson and a couple of scrubs are ahead of Isiah in PER, Dumars is ahead in WS, and eight teammates are ahead in WS per 48.

So PER has Isiah as possibly the best, with some serious competition from Dumars and Johnson. WS and WS per 48, not so much.

by Tim S. on Jun 2, 2011 3:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

I guess my point is that Isiah had help.

Rose could really use two back court mates players like Dumars and Johnson. And I’m not sure if Noah and Boozer equal Lambier and Rodman.

by Tim S. on Jun 2, 2011 3:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

I get your point

I think you were going Hollinger on my ass…yeah, I know that by advance metrics, Laimbeer and Rodman were better: but Dennis didn’t play that much and Bill wasn’t great offensively. I think Isiah was the leader of that team, and had enough stats to back it up.

Derrick+Joakim+Booz > Ray-Ray, The Wheelchair guy, that stupid martian and the punk who only messes with 6 foot foreign point guards and 3 point shooting centers

by poker_punker on Jun 2, 2011 8:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

James was a lockdown defender and closer before he got to Miami.

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on May 31, 2011 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

No he wasn't

He didn’t decide to play defense until a couple of years ago and even before that he wasn’t a stopper. I love how all of a sudden Lebron is the only player in the league that can guard Rose. That’s funny because I remember Rose hanging 30 on his ass in the playoffs last year in the Cleveland series.

Lebron is a great help defender and looks great blocking shots and covering so much ground but he’s not a lock down defender. Micheal Cooper was a “lockdown” defender. Scottie Pippen was a “lockdown” defender. Lebron looks great defending a guy like Rose when he knows he has length and another great help defender on the wing in Wade.

Hey Rose. I don't see the appeal!

by Dils on May 31, 2011 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

I watched with my eyes, Rose was struggling to get a comfortable shot off on him

but you’re right, even when Rose said ‘screw this’ and blew by him, the help came and stuffed him.

by Stacey_Is_King on May 31, 2011 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

To be fair

Rose was faced with the task of guarding Wade down the stretch which can be pretty exhausting down the stretch. Between the two, I think its pretty unanimous that LeBron had the fresher legs guarding Luol than Rose did guarding Wade.

"truTV is like BET for white folks." - Chuck

by macjack09 on May 31, 2011 6:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, this is true

of course, an idiot would try and use the ’he’s the MVP, it’s expected of him’ excuse.

by Stacey_Is_King on May 31, 2011 6:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think he was ever a lockdown defender

he’s a lockdown defender on people who are smaller than him, regardless of speed, which is pretty amazing still.

by Stacey_Is_King on May 31, 2011 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ugh, give me a break

Who’s a better defender than Lebron at the 3? I hate that guy as much as anyone, but you have to give him credit, he’s been a pretty damn good defender for at least the last 3 or so years

Recovering...

by Juiceboxjerry on May 31, 2011 7:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well that's fine but that doesn't mean he's a lockdown defender

If he’s been the best for 3 years it’s only because Artest (a true lockdown defender) fell off the map. Hell now that I think about it I’ll go as far as to say that Deng is a better defender than Lebron. Not as good of a help defender, but as good if not better than defending his man.

Hey Rose. I don't see the appeal!

by Dils on May 31, 2011 7:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, you probably do need a break

First off, what the hell does Lebron being the best SF defender (which he’s not) have to do with being a lockdown defender? Even if he was, that doesn’t mean he’s a lockdown guy, which I attribute to mean ‘nearly completely stopping another player from scoring’. Just because he did that to Rose once, doesn’t make him a lockdown guy.

Secondly, Luol, Mbah a Moute, arguably Gerald Wallace and Iggy (if you count him as a 3) are all better than him.

by Stacey_Is_King on May 31, 2011 8:39 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Well, actually, that's exactly my view, which is why I never use that word to describe a defender

Lebron is a super-awesome defender, though. Happy?

And it’s not my job to tell people what to do at all. However, I have every right to voice my distaste in someone else’s comments. I’m not demanding that you be banned, but I am saying that your bad comments are slowly beginning to outnumber your good ones.

by Stacey_Is_King on May 31, 2011 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

You could make an argument for Deng (for best D at the 3)

I’d argue that LeBron takes a lot of risks that get covered up by the team D. For example, letting a player go by him just to try and get the block.

I don’t think LeBron’s best defensive asset is being a lock down defender at the 3 so much as it is his ability to guard any position on the floor. It is his versatility that is his biggest strength defensively.

by 72-10 on May 31, 2011 9:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

That, and his help defense

But in today’s NBA, those things are far more important than being a good one on one defender imo.

Recovering...

by Juiceboxjerry on May 31, 2011 9:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

*Peace of mind

Hey Rose. I don't see the appeal!

by Dils on May 31, 2011 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

well jbj thats a by-product of guys not being able to create shots.

I had a little negative hunch that I tried to ignore as well, because I felt like his midrange would suffer for some reason because of his three and it totally did. He was shooting like rondo instead of the way he shot midrange jumpers the season previously. I think he lost confidence in his jumper and just started hoping it would hit. I know that if he was hitting those midrange jumpers like he was last season the bulls would of won the series.

by Slick Ric on May 31, 2011 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, I agree with you there

Although I think Miami’s defense had a lot to do with his jumper leaving. Still doesn’t change the fact that I think he shot the ball way too many times

Recovering...

by Juiceboxjerry on May 31, 2011 7:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's going to be a long off season.

Rose could also develop a post game. He could work on the pick and roll. Maybe he and Boozer could work on it together.

Everyone could work on getting stronger.

Thibs could start teaching a more complex offense.

I’m not sure Brewer is ever going to be a three-point shooter, except maybe out of the corner. I would like to see all of the players work on shooting and finishing from 15 feet to the rim. Three point shooting is nice, but as Thibs says, relying on it is fool’s gold.

by Tim S. on May 30, 2011 6:59 AM CDT reply actions  

I don't see why working on a post game should be an emphasis

He’s so effective out on the perimeter that going to the post is always going to be an inferior option. 5-8 years from now when his athleticism starts to go, that’ll be something to work on, but right now, there are areas that are much more pertinent for Rose to work on.

Pat Riley is the devil.

by Poloplaya14 on May 31, 2011 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

He doesn't need much.

It’s just so frustrating to see him struggle against quick, tiny guards he could easily shoot over in the post. And most point guards are shorter than he is. Plus, if he posted and drew the double team, who better to dish it out to the cutter or three-point line? And it should save him wear and tear if he doesn’t have to throw himself into traffic constantly.

It will be a long off-season. He can learn a post move or two. But yeah, there are so many things he could work on, it is hard to set priorities.

by Tim S. on May 31, 2011 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thibodeau claims that adjustments come playoff time are overrated

Don’t expect Thibodeau to change anything he did during this season.

Thibodeau claims that adjustments come playoff time are overrated.

“I think there’s more made of that than actually happens,” he said. "The biggest changes, when you get to the playoffs, is you’re just playing the same team over and over again. That’s the biggest change. But the game part, you don’t change who you are, you’re not going to change your defense, you’re not going to change your offense.

“You’ll add a wrinkle here or there, but that will be about it. It’s going to be how well you can execute and what type of habits you establish throughout the year.”

And what was Thibodeau’s “wrinkle?” Placing Korver in games to defend point guards, which cost leads, momentum, and games 2&3 of the ECF.

This season is as far as the Bulls can go with Thibodeau. Thib’s playoff philosphy says it all.

by Roscoe63 on May 30, 2011 2:14 PM CDT reply actions  

so you would rather have Korver guard Wade or LeBron

does not compute.

Check out my thoughts on Purdue Athletics at http://purdue.big10rant.com/
Seriously, its worth the click.

Just do it.

Twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/Riles23
Twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/Big10RantPurdue

by HawkeyeBoiler on May 30, 2011 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ever heard of Vinny "The Microvave" Johnson?

Chuck Dailey (a great tactician) won three championships with one superstar (Isiah) and a bunch of one dimensional players similar to this years Bulls.

Vinny Johnson, was the sixth man with a similar skill set as Kyle Korver. I’ll even contend Korver is the better defender of the two.

The only difference between the success of the two players is how Chuck Daily (A Tactician) placed VJ in a positions that maximized his talent (shooting) while minimizing exposing his weakness (defense) to the opposition.

Thibodeau does the exact opposite with his players, especially Korver.

Korver should have been used in the exact manner Daley used VJ. The last two – three minutes of each quarter, insert him into the lineup and tell him “Bombs away.” Every play for the last few minutes he was is in the game should’ve been ran for him, ala the Microwave. Korver’s strength is shooting, not defense.

This would have forced Spolestra to take James or Wade out of the game for fear of picking up an end of the quarter foul by jumping out at Korver behind the three point stripe.

Mike Miller would have been the logical match up Spolestra would have countered with. This by the way, is the best match up for Korver on the defensive as well.

Thibodeau (by having Korver chase BEHIND point guards) neutralized Korver on the offensive end and created a domino effect that lead to Rose (as well as Korver) expending extra energy on defense.

This is why Rose only took 2 shots in the fourth quarter in one game and accuracy was off the entire series.

Poor Korver could be seen standing in the corner on offense, waving for the ball NOT to be thrown in his direction. Both Korver and Rose were exhausted because of defensive mismatches created by their own head coach.

Thibodeau proved he is no tactician in the mode of:

Phil Jackson (11 Coaching Championships)
Greg Popovich (4 Coaching Championships)
Doc Rivers (1 Coaching Championship)
Jerry Sloan (2 time MJ Victim)

BTW, Korver and Brewer NEVER looked this bad when they played for a tactician type coach in Utah.

Thibodeau shows the traits of the Trainer-Teacher type coach, in the mode of:

Bryon Scott (2008 COY – Fired 2009)
Mike Brown (2009 COY – Fired 2010)
Thibodeau (2011 COY – )

by Roscoe63 on Jun 1, 2011 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

First, when Korver is in the game, Thibs runs plenty of plays for him, letting him run off screens for half the shot clock

Second, putting in Korver, or any strictly jumpshooting player for that matter, is not going to scare any coach into putting his best wing players on the bench. Jump shooters are the least fouled players in the game.

Further, you greatly discredit the composition of the Bad Boys Pistons. Joe Dumars, for fuck’s sake, is a HOF 2 way player. Bill Laimbeer was an effective offensive player. Isiaih by the championship years was far removed from his peak and no longer a superstar caliber player. It was also a far more offensively minded era. A coach couldn’t get away with a defensive-minded unit similar to the Bench Mob Thibs was using to great success this season. Playing Vinnie Johnson was more of a necessity for Daly. Oh, and if you’re going to act like you know what your talking about from days of yore, at least spell the names right.

Well, isn't what LeBron did last night the living embodiment of The Secret, leaving millions on the table and turning himself into a hometown villain, all for the sake of winning?
Neil Paine, basketball-reference.com

by snley on Jun 1, 2011 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Guess it'd help if I didn't put an extra "i" in Isiah's name while bitching about roscoe's spelling

Well, isn't what LeBron did last night the living embodiment of The Secret, leaving millions on the table and turning himself into a hometown villain, all for the sake of winning?
Neil Paine, basketball-reference.com

by snley on Jun 1, 2011 6:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wow

You can tell the future? So you already know that Thibs is gonna be a bad coach and needs to be fired after 1 year because he’ll never have the tools to ever win a championship and never make adjustments after a rookie season?
So why didn’t you tell us you knew Rose was going to win the MVP after only 3 seasons in the NBA?
Or that we had no chance at the Big 3?
Or we would finish with the best record in the NBA?
While you’re at it…..can you tell me the winning lotto numbers for this month? I got some college loans I gotta pay off.

"truTV is like BET for white folks." - Chuck

by macjack09 on Jun 1, 2011 8:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Adjustments are so overrated

Thibodeau put us in GREAT position to win at least 2 of the 3 games we lost.

Recovering...

by Juiceboxjerry on May 31, 2011 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ok

We had a 12 point lead with three minutes to go in Game 5, and we had the ball with 7 seconds left in a tie game in the fourth quarter for Game 4. This was not an issue with coaching, for the most part. Sure there was a couple things Thibs could’ve done differently, but we definitely had our chances to win those games

Recovering...

by Juiceboxjerry on May 31, 2011 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

100% with you on that

Execution is what cost us. The gameplan was working and we blew it.

by 72-10 on May 31, 2011 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Go back and watch games two and three of the ECF

Mark the score and momentum before Thibodeau inserts Korver to defend a point guard. Then you tell me the answer. I think you’ll be enlightened if you do re watch those games.

by Roscoe63 on Jun 1, 2011 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I could not find one instance of Korver being taken advantage of by Chalmers or Bibby

The one example you could use is when the Heat tried to go at Korver by running a 3-1 PnR, which they did a couple times. Lebron scored on each possession, but he hit a couple of pretty tough shots to do so. Even though I agree that Chalmers and Bibby probably could beat Korver 1-on-1, the Heat simply never go to those guys and ask them to make plays.

Pat Riley is the devil.

by Poloplaya14 on Jun 3, 2011 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

Also, read my response above

About how Thibodeau should have been using Korver (properly).

by Roscoe63 on Jun 1, 2011 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

I really, really, really hope Rose doesn't waste time focusing on his post game

it’s be a huge and utter waste of time, compared to the benefit that could come from

- Becoming a 37% 3p shooter
- Becoming a better defender
- Becoming a better passer/defense reader

I’d put a post game behind all of these. Heck, I’d rather have Rose work on FT’s than a post game.

by Stacey_Is_King on May 30, 2011 9:30 PM CDT reply actions  

I agree about the

3 point shooting.

It clearly left him during the playoffs and allowed defenders to sag off him and go under screens.

His passing could also improve, but I feel that his teammates aren’t that great and doing anything the pass since they don’t handle well and they don’t pas that well either (outside of Noah I suppose).

But as far as defense, I actually think his defense is pretty good, not saying it’s perfect by any means, but certainly underrated.

"The advanced metrics guys do not like Derrick Rose very much." - Bills Simmons podcast 2/4

by RogersPark Kris on May 31, 2011 8:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

Rose started to lose his 3-point shooting around the All-Star break.

Something was wrong with his mechanics, and he just couldn’t get it back.

by Tim S. on May 31, 2011 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Personally I don't think he has to work on anything from a physical aspect

I’d like to see him sit in front of a tv screen for the entire summer and have Thibodeau drill into his brain what is a good shot, and what is a bad shot. Or if he could somehow learn the fine art of penetrating to make a play to get his teammates a dunk or a layup. Or how about practicing pick and rolls with Boozer all summer so that we can finally take advantage of Boozer’s biggest strength? Basically I’d just like to see him become a much smarter player. The moment he gets on the floor with a team that can match him athletically, and he can’t simply run around them, he basically turns into crap.

Recovering...

by Juiceboxjerry on May 31, 2011 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

This is true

Rose becoming a smarter player is the one big thing he has to work on. Smarter passes and smarter shots will net more improvement than any one skill.

"Mental toughness is to physical as four is to one." - Bob Knight

by DRose01 on May 31, 2011 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

So smart you can expect him to question dumb coaching moves next year

Don’t expect D. Rose to improve his game then accept criticism for losses that could have been avoided with better match-ups by Thibodeau.

by Roscoe63 on Jun 1, 2011 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree

But unfortunately, those are things that can’t be dramatically improved without actually going up against live defenses. Watching film only does so much. The only way Rose is going to really improve in those areas is by playing.

Pat Riley is the devil.

by Poloplaya14 on May 31, 2011 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yep

Which is probably why any “Derrick Rose: Workout Warrior” stories should be taken with a huge grain of salt

Recovering...

by Juiceboxjerry on May 31, 2011 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yes and no.

They certainly made a helluva difference this season, right?

"After Game 1, they made me and Joe’s life a living hell." - Jamal Crawford

by bleigh82 on May 31, 2011 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Oh Dear God, I'm talking about going forward

I was talking about how I don’t think we’ll see him have similar jumps to year’s past after offseason workouts from now on.

Did you guys read the the context in which I made that statement, or do you only comment on the things that make you angry?

Recovering...

by Juiceboxjerry on May 31, 2011 7:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, I never said it exactly, but that's what I was referring to when I said this
Personally I don’t think he has to work on anything from a physical aspect

The discussion was about how I don’t think the next leap he makes will be from a physical skill standpoint, but from the mental part of his game. Hence why I said any excitement about those workouts should be taken with a grain of salt.

Imo, he’d be better off cutting down on practicing that three point shot. He was already using it at absurd levels last year, I’d hate to see what happens after another summer. He needs to focus on becoming a better distributor, having better shot selection, and getting to the line more (which he was pretty awesome at by the end of the year, so he just needs to keep that going)

Recovering...

by Juiceboxjerry on May 31, 2011 8:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

My Fav Part of this post
As such he needs to improve his ball handling. I don’t believe this is asking much

I also don’t think its too much to ask of a basketball player to also be good at handling the basketball. It blows my mind to think there are professional players in the league making millions and cant even dribble the ball…

by roseyposey on May 31, 2011 4:04 AM CDT reply actions  

Every NBA player can dribble

The question is can they dribble while other NBA players are trying to steal the ball from them

by tuluse on Jun 11, 2011 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Why did this not get more recs?

This is awesome stuff!

Still waiting for Game 2 of the Eastern Conference Finals. I assume that the last two weeks were just a bad dream...

by Dr. Handsome, D.D.S. on Jun 3, 2011 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's not just the pick and roll

It’s the flex offense that matters. It’s predicated on early pick and roll and lots of cutting, a great offense for this Bulls team. The key is the early pick and roll. Bulls went to this too often with little time left on the clock. Sloan’s offense involves a ton of reads and lots of cutting, but the Bulls have the personnel to do it (many were with Sloan for quite awhile).

In the end, Bulls need a better system to fit their personnel. Not enough cutting and slashing. Not enough running the offense through the high post. Too much 1-5,1-4 pick and roll with Rose. Sloan would be great to help with this, but hopefully Thibs uses his resources around the league to get some guidance.

"Mental toughness is to physical as four is to one." - Bob Knight

by DRose01 on May 31, 2011 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

I heard that Thibs was putting in a version of the flex.

I think he couldn’t do it this year, or didn’t want to.

by cubbybear on May 31, 2011 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

do you by any chance have a source?

I’m not trying to say you’re making it up, I actually would like to read about it.

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on May 31, 2011 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

I know it isn't directed at me, but:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oasLKJI3Qqo

as Coach Nick basically says, we show the basics of the Flex offense
but it hasn’t been installed cleanly/well yet.

He never refers to it as the flex, but, if you know what the flex is… ah… yeah.

A true friend stabs you in the front - Oscar Wilde

by dantheman3k on May 31, 2011 9:32 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

this is nice.

if it was ever a fanshot, I apologize for not rec’ing it

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on Jun 1, 2011 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Where does Jerry Sloan live permanently?

I don’t he would become a full-time assistant coach, but if he lives in the Chicago area, by some chance, I don’t see why he wouldn’t accept some type of special assistant role.

Pat Riley is the devil.

by Poloplaya14 on May 31, 2011 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think he does live somewhere in Illinois actually

Pretty far down south though, from what I’ve heard

Recovering...

by Juiceboxjerry on May 31, 2011 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

so have Sloan teach a summer camp basicly!

I like it actually… bring him in in September for a lesson.

by 72-10 on May 31, 2011 9:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Can you imagine what Boozer would be thinking if this happened?

Might as well get Coach K to come too (he’s got Chicago ties and a completely open schedule). We can let John Lucas, Silas, and the other former Cavs coaches off the hook.

It’d be amazing to reconnect Jerry Sloan with the Bulls, though. Especially since he still has quick reflexes:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Jerry-Sloan-saves-a-man-s-life-with-his-gun?urn=nba-330861

I’d like to make Jerry Sloan the new Chuck Norris.

by jonnyb on May 31, 2011 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes. Yes. Yes.

Derrick Rose will be suspended by the NBA because he has broken too many ankles.

by jrobulls on May 31, 2011 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

You stole my assignment

I suggested the same move, this way when the Bulls have to admit Thibodeau is an excellent Teacher-Trainer and a horrible Tactician, Sloan will already be in place.

Notable Teacher/Trainers who are not Tacticians:

Bryon Scott (2008 COY – Fired 2009)
Mike Brown (2009 COY – Fired 2010)
Thibodeau (2011 COY – )

by Roscoe63 on Jun 1, 2011 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

In Thibs' defense

Both Byron and Brown were head coaches for 5 years for their respective teams. Thibs still has a lot of time in my book. Even coaches can learn. Unless he refuses or doesn’t show an growth over the next few years. COY or not, this still was only his first year. I think he exceeded expectations so much that people began expect much more from him too quick, if that makes sense.

Besides, Sloan is an underachiever in my book. 22 years as a head coach and only 2 finals appearances, 8 first round exits, and 4 times missing the playoffs? That’s a lot left on the table no matter what way you look at it.

"truTV is like BET for white folks." - Chuck

by macjack09 on Jun 1, 2011 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Another quick defense of Thibs

Remember at the beginning of the season how unorganized the Bulls looked on offense. Specifically, the Oklahoma game, when Rose ended up taking a boatload of shots because people kept blowing offensive assignments. In November, Scalabrine was receiving more playing time than Thomas, and James Johnson still received playing time. It took awhile but Thibs ended up making the necessary roster adjustments. He seems to make adjustments, he simply doesn’t change the entire scheme nor attempt to react in a knee-jerk manner. I would agree with this approach, and as the roster management proved at the beginning of the season, he did make the correct changes.

I’m expecting him to better know his roster’s strengths and weaknesses and devise a more effective offensive gameplan.

by chowder on Jun 1, 2011 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Great Points, but...

1. Rick Carleses (sp) reaffirmed by point that championship basketball is all about matchups. And the coach who creates the most mismatches (that favors his team) wins every time. Problem with Thibodeau is he believes in game adjustments are “Overrated.”

2. The Bulls don’t have “a few years” for Thibodeau to grow. They must win now before Rose becomes eligible to depart for a big three. So Thibodeau must adjust/improve now!

3. Thibodeau has been in the league over twenty years, that’s as long if not longer than Bryon Scott and Mike Brown. Twenty years in the best seat in the house working with some of the best coaches the NBA ever had to offer.

So for Thibodeau to say the X’s and O’s part of the game is overrated is telling why he never received a shot at head coaching until now. One fan pointed out that Boston – under the threat of Doc Rivers retiring – didn’t think enough of Thibodeau to retain him in case Doc did in fact retire.

I’m rooting for Thibodeau because if he is fired, that’ll mean the team underperformed and once again lost a series they should have won. However, it’s not looking promising at the moment.

Again, great points!

by Roscoe63 on Jun 20, 2011 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Comparing Thibodeau to Byron Scott is asinine

Scott’s never been known as an Xs and Os guy. The Mike Brown example is a little more apt, but I’ve always thought he’s gotten a raw deal by the media. Cleveland was always excellent defensively under Brown, and he managed to get 60 wins out of a roster whose 2nd best player was Mo Williams.

Pat Riley is the devil.

by Poloplaya14 on Jun 3, 2011 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

yeah and byron scott went to the finals twice with jason kidd, and kevin martin as his secon best player

along with guys like todd mccolough starting, and if you dont know who he is you should be ashamed of your self. lol

by Slick Ric on Jun 8, 2011 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

LOL @ McColough

lol, I know who he is.

Thanks for the comments.

by Roscoe63 on Jun 20, 2011 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Another thing for boozer

“watch your step so you aren’t injured for the first two months of the season”

Homework sucks, but not if you are an NBA player. Find clues and defeat your friends in this hyperfast contest of logic and skill.

All I need is the air that I breath and to love you. - David Bowie

The NBA Basketball Bulls

by hoopinions on May 31, 2011 8:56 AM CDT reply actions  

Brewer has a broken-ish arm, I don't know how much that 3% is going to go up ...

Rose decides not to go 1-on-2 and I was thinking, "what are you doing?! You've got the numbers!" -Zach Harper, Daily Dime Live

by Prevenge on May 31, 2011 8:57 AM CDT reply actions  

I think he can maybe crank 35% on corner 3s.

He hit a few in the playoffs I was pretty impressed with, but I can’t see him ever getting to 35+ % on threes with that shooting form of his.

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on May 31, 2011 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's his elbow

He injured it as a kid in a water slide accident.

by CowBearsFan on May 31, 2011 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

The broken arm isn't what causes him to release way too late though. His arm may have been broken,

but his mechanics are bad, and I’d say that’s the bigger problem.

eat. sleep. hoop. repeat. become legendary.

by Sir Buckets on May 31, 2011 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm still way too bummed out from the end of the season to read

about what each player needs to work on. But from what I skimmed through, it looks like you did a pretty damn good job.

To be honest, I don’t see very many avenues for this team to get much better for next season. Even adding a shooting guard likely won’t bring as much “help” as most around here seem to believe, imo. Whoever we add will have a difficult time outplaying the Bogans/Korver/Brewer rotation. I actually think our overall talent was really good, as well.

In order to get to the next level, we’re gonna have to luck into another star somehow. I don’t see any player on the team getting substantially better to the point where it makes a huge difference. Even with Derrick. I doubt we see a huge leap out of him at this point. I voted for Omer because I see him as a huge key for us. Be it by trading him, or by him becoming so good that we have to trade Noah or something.

Not to sound too cynical/pessimistic, but I have a very hard time believing that, barring a miracle, this team will win a title in the next 3-4 years. This past year was probably our best shot, and we still got abused in 5 games in the ECF.

Recovering...

by Juiceboxjerry on May 31, 2011 9:30 AM CDT reply actions  

I think it depends on the two guard

If we bring in Rip Hamilton, obviously not much help there. But what if the Bulls were able to bring in Kevin Martin? I could see the Bulls getting tons better with this type of player. He scores well in isolation, defends, and shoots. Heck, even Iggy would be a solid upgrade (it would be like being able to play that super defensive lineup except with Iggy as a second scoring option).

Also, the Bulls did not get abused. The Bulls made more FGs and forced more turnovers in that series. All four losses were really, really close.

"Mental toughness is to physical as four is to one." - Bob Knight

by DRose01 on May 31, 2011 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Iggy is interesting, and he's the one guy that would probably make me rethink that a little

but management is WAY too cheap to go that route. Just watch, whatever they do won’t have nearly that kind of price tag. I’m not quite as enamored with K Mart, although I’d be cool with that too (another expensive guy though, so, doubtful).

I guess I just think that, if the Heat handled us in five games THIS year, we’re probably fucked for the foreseeable future. Even Igoudala likely wouldn’t be enough to bridge that talent gap

Recovering...

by Juiceboxjerry on May 31, 2011 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

I thought the Heat barely beat us in those games, and we played terribly

I don’t understand how the heat can add significant players. Arent they capped out?

I get clients down to 5% body fat with ease you fucking idiot. - dakoose

by Trey23 on Jun 4, 2011 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Your the only person in the world

Who seems to be convinced we got “abused” by them. If you want to talk about abuse look at what the Mavs did to the Lakers. That wasn’t just abuse….that was a lynching. We were with the Heat in all of the games, but in the end, not having that second option was the downfall and the Heat pulled away. But we were hardly abused. The only time you could say we were abused were in the final minutes of those games, maybe……

"truTV is like BET for white folks." - Chuck

by macjack09 on May 31, 2011 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Sorry, but I categorize any series that goes less than 6 games as "abuse" for the most part

If it helps you going forward to think that we were “right there!”, then by all means, go right ahead thinking that. To me, it felt like we were being toyed with.

Recovering...

by Juiceboxjerry on May 31, 2011 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well then

Doesn’t that kind of rid the product of its substance? I mean if we were getting waxed through each game then I would understand. If you wanna say that they were toying with us in the final minutes than fine. But just categorizing anything less than 6 a beat down really when the team hangs a long is like categorizing a WR abusing a CB because he beats him on 1 fade route.

If anything we were “abused” less than the Sixers and the Celtics.

"truTV is like BET for white folks." - Chuck

by macjack09 on May 31, 2011 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

All three series went 5

I don’t see how you can say that one team played much better than another with a straight face

Recovering...

by Juiceboxjerry on May 31, 2011 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

Easy

I watched the first 3 quarters of each series game……guess who was the one team who actually looked like they had a chance that they eventually pissed away on their own? (Hint: it wasn’t the Sixers or the Celtics)

"truTV is like BET for white folks." - Chuck

by macjack09 on May 31, 2011 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

lol, weren't all those games really close up until the fourth, too?

Can someone else back me up on this? I specifically remember all the Sixers’ games being real tight, and the Heat just kicking their ass in the fourth.

Recovering...

by Juiceboxjerry on May 31, 2011 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree that it doesn't matter how you lost

Plus, losing four in a row (!), should offset that fact that we were “in” every game.

Recovering...

by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 1, 2011 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

No, it's like the WR catching 3 TD's on the CB, but the CB's fingertips were just six inches away.

Sure, you were close on all three TD’s. You still got three scored against you, though, and maybe you’re just not as good.

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on May 31, 2011 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Pacers were in three of their four losses against the Bulls.

I’m guessing you have a different take on that, though.

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on May 31, 2011 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not "apocalyptic"

I just don’t think we’ll be able to win a title. I’ll still be very interested in the games, and hope that I’m proven wrong, but unless the Heat lose Lebron to injury, I don’t see much changing next year. And that doesn’t mention all the other teams in the league that will be getting better.

Recovering...

by Juiceboxjerry on May 31, 2011 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think it's possible that the Heat are way, way better than the Bulls

You can look at the series and see:
The Heat won every game the cared about
They even won a game they didn’t want to win much (game 5)
They often toyed with the Bulls and only played hard the last half of the 4th quarter..and still won
Plus the Heat will only get better for the next 5 years

Now, it’s possible that looking at the series like that would be wrong. But you should ask yourself how close you think the Pacers are to the Bulls…because that’s where the Bulls are in relation to the Heat based on playoff perfromance.

by hitlesswonder on May 31, 2011 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

I haven't studied a ton of psychology

But I find it hard to believe that the Heat didn’t care about game 1.

Your advice is duly noted. I guess we have different definitions of playoff performance. If team A loses to team B by by 7.4 ppg and team B loses to team C by 2.2 ppg, I’d say that B and C are closer in terms of performance than A and B.

by from the window to luol on May 31, 2011 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Look at the poll above.

Rose has huge potential for growth, and most people believe that Noah and Asik can also improve. This was the first year this team played together under a new coach. I’ve got to believe they can do even better next year.

The only reason you might be right is that Miami also has the potential to be even better next year, and for the next several years. But hey, everyone knew it would be tough to compete with Miami. At least the Bulls are in as good a position as anyone to do so over the next five years.

by Tim S. on May 31, 2011 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

LOL

Who the hell picked Boozer?!

Cutler and Rose are bringing back Chicago sports.

by Faizamaze on May 31, 2011 9:55 AM CDT reply actions  

I suppose you feel he's maxes out his skills?

He’s not a monster physical talent, so perhaps.

I’m sure Bulls fans believe he can improve his defense.

"The advanced metrics guys do not like Derrick Rose very much." - Bills Simmons podcast 2/4

by RogersPark Kris on May 31, 2011 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

Could it be JBJ?

And again i dont hate Booz. Just disappointed at him tho

'Don't believe in you who believe in me and don't believe in me who believes in you, but believe in you who believe in yourself'

by T.Moore on May 31, 2011 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Lol

'Don't believe in you who believe in me and don't believe in me who believes in you, but believe in you who believe in yourself'

by T.Moore on May 31, 2011 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

If you count rebounding from a poor playoffs, and

learning to play with Rose and Noah, I think Boozer has room for growth. Maybe he will be comeback player of the year next year! Nah, probably not. But it’s a nice dream!

by Tim S. on May 31, 2011 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think the Kurt Thomas votes are a taaad more egregious.

How does one practice consistency? Take lots of Benefiber?
by WearShades on May 31, 2011 6:37 AM PDT

by Dr. Handsome, D.D.S. on Jun 3, 2011 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

I voted for Brewer

Mostly because I think he’s so specialized, and that a small improvement in his 3FG% could make him starter-quality, opening up his offensive game. Really, if he improves that, Bogans is pretty much duplicated, and Brewer has better slashing ability.

by cubbybear on May 31, 2011 11:48 AM CDT reply actions  

Here's a Roster tweaking.

Bulls Get: Andre Iguodala and Marese Speights
Why: We get the second playmaker/scorer/ball-handler we need and a back-up big man who can shoot the mid-range.Then we slide in Taj as the starting power forward.

Sixers Get: Robin Lopez, Vince Carter, First Round Pick
Why: They need a true center badly, and Robin Lopez is expendable in Phoenix now that Gortat has exploded their. They also get an expiring contract in VC.

Suns Get: Carlos Boozer & Darius Songaila
Why: The Suns need a legitimate a low post threat ever since Amare left town. Plus, I see Boozer fitting in the Suns system really well.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3pnsfc4

by RoseFTW on May 31, 2011 12:10 PM CDT reply actions  

Don't feed the troll

(i did but meh he’s a douche)

'Don't believe in you who believe in me and don't believe in me who believes in you, but believe in you who believe in yourself'

by T.Moore on May 31, 2011 12:22 PM CDT reply actions  

Excellent post

I voted for Brewer, but I wanted to also include Noah and Asik. I think those three guys will have a huge impact next season, and especially if they can improve upon the areas that you pointed out. Brewer has a goofy looking shot, but he made some threes in the playoffs that I almost closed my eyes when he threw them up. He obviously is a competent shooter, and he could be even better. Stick him behind the three point line this offseason, because if Brewer could give us 25 minutes a night or more with 10-12 points on a consistent basis, we’d really be in business.

Follow me on Twitter: @SayreBedinger

by Sayre Bedinger on May 31, 2011 1:31 PM CDT reply actions  

I voted for Taj...

But I disagree on his Summer homework. While I agree that he should be working on the mid-range jumper in the offseason, I believe that should his secondary assignment. Taj’s primary assignment should be adding a consistent corner three point shot to his arsenal…that would give the team a true stretch four who can play on both ends of the floor.

7 for 7.

by Dionysus2.0 on May 31, 2011 1:38 PM CDT reply actions  

I think Taj...

could develop a low post game. He’s undersized, but that jump hook was his best shot even though he rarely took it.

by El Toro de Goro on May 31, 2011 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

definately

he is really bad right now facing up, but he has shown flashes of a solid post game when he doesn’t go for a face up jumper

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on May 31, 2011 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

This just isnt going to happen

As much as I love Taj, even the corner three is too big of a jump from his baseline jumper to be a realistic goal. Taj can already play on both ends of the floor. I agree that he needs to add consistency with his mid range shot and defensive discipline, but I think both of those will come with time.

by DFinnToWin on Jun 1, 2011 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

It may not happen...but I guarantee he will be working on it.
What have you worked on this off-season?
“I’ve been shooting threes actually. Last season Vinny and his staff wanted to see me step out to 18 and eventually three point range. This coaching staff is helping me work on threes, and this staff is helping me work on it.”

How’s your three look? Are we going to see it this year?
“It looks good, but it’s still probably a year away. They changed my whole jump shooting form to a new, easier, quicker form. i’m looking forward to using it.”

Read more: http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-bulls-confidential/2010/09/taj-gibson—-ive-been-shooting-threes.html#ixzz1O7gunYYt

7 for 7.

by Dionysus2.0 on Jun 2, 2011 7:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

Fantastic post. Thanks for putting all that work in.

I voted Noah based mainly on what the author alluded to in regards to his elbow jumper and finishing ability. He just seemed like a completely different player prior to the injury.

I think if the Bulls get that Noah back for a full season and the playoffs…it will open things up for them offensively. Especially in that Heat series…despite the fantastic way they play defense, it really looked like Jo left 4-6 easy points out there in just about every game. Just think how big those could of been for a team struggling to score.

"After Game 1, they made me and Joe’s life a living hell." - Jamal Crawford

by bleigh82 on May 31, 2011 1:50 PM CDT reply actions  

pretty much spot on chowder

someone needs to find thibs in deerfield and ask what his summer plans are for himself and his players

Where 79-44 lead turns into a 4 point loss Happen(ed)

by Orange Juice on May 31, 2011 3:57 PM CDT reply actions  

I think he did a fairly decent job with that this season.

Korver: hit a shot, any shot.
Boozer: play some defense and no excuses
Noah: concentrate and keep the high energy and please work on your short shots/post up game, we are gonna need every bit of that next season
Rose: don’t attempt so many 3s, protect the ball better and trust your teammates
Taj: keep improving on offense
Brewer: ditto
Thibs: don’t be such a perfectionist
Scal: no need to improve, you are already there! your effort is commendable.

by BullsFan22 on May 31, 2011 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

What people needs to realize

is that these guys have played basketball their entire lives (for the most part), so you cant just ‘decide to be a better ball handler.’ it just doesnt work like that. When youve already been playing basketball most days of the year for most of your life, your ball handling skill is probably pretty close to its limit. Especially for guys who play on the perimeter and naturally handle the ball more, they’ve had plenty of practice with the rock. So as much as we would like guys like Luol and Ronnie to give Derrick some relief in that dept, its just not realistic to expect them to transform into reliable ball handlers at this level

by DFinnToWin on Jun 1, 2011 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not exactly

Form plays a big thing in it. If change the way you do something you can make it better/worse no matter what your age. I mean look at Jason Kidd. He was never known as a shooter, but as he came on the downside of his career (and especially these last 4 seasons) he’s become one of the deadliest 3PT shooters in the game.

Ray Allen was for the most part a terrible defender then he went to the Celtics and became as far cry from the defender he used to be (in a good way).

As much as many complained about Rose’s 3PT shooting, he increased his 3PT shooting percent by 7% in one offseason. That’s pretty impressive.

"truTV is like BET for white folks." - Chuck

by macjack09 on Jun 1, 2011 8:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree with that improvements to shooting and defense

can definitely be made no matter what the age, but i wouldnt put ball handling in that category. basically my point is even if they worked really hard all off season, its just not a skill that fluctuates much once already in the league

by DFinnToWin on Jun 2, 2011 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

I agree with mostly everything you put on here, except

Deng needs to solely work on his ballhandling deficiencies! OMG its almost impossible to watch!

He looks like a fat kid who hits his belly everytime he dribbles and has to regain control of the ball, or like he’s trying to only dribble using his thumb and pinky, for christ’s sake its an atrocity!

I believe the one thing really holding his game back, is this major problem he has, DRIBBLING, If he could add this facet to his game, this team’s ability, on offense, would be significantly upgraded, without adding anymore players.

So, I say for this off-season DENG work on your DRIBBLING!!!!, for the love of God and us Bulls’ fans

by chicagobullies on May 31, 2011 11:11 PM CDT reply actions  

Other than Rose, who on the Bulls is a better dribbler than Deng?

Watson, maybe, but he has other deficiencies that keep him from playing next to Rose. Not Korver or Brewer or Bogans. Not Noah or Boozer or Gibson or Asik. I agree that Deng is at his weakest when he is left to dribble on his own, but if Rose is double-teamed or on the bench, who else is there?

The Bulls need someone who can handle the ball better than Deng, and it shouldn’t be that hard to find someone. The problem is finding someone who can still defend like Brewer or score like Korver or rebound like Noah or do something else besides dribble.

by Tim S. on Jun 1, 2011 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd say Noah

It’s not only dribbling but doing something productive while dribbling. I honestly trust Noah with the ball at the top of the key than Deng. Deng had a great year but it should be illegal for him to take more then to steps during a dribble because chances are, something bad is going to happen. Teams know this and that’s why they go poking at that ball once he puts the ball on the floor.

Hey Rose. I don't see the appeal!

by Dils on Jun 1, 2011 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Problem with Noah at the end of the year is that

Miami could sag off him and he wouldn’t take his shot. Rose was double-teamed and everyone else was covered. Noah wouldn’t shoot. Instead he drove to the basket with at best mixed success.

Noah may be better at dishing than Deng, but he isn’t as good at shooting or driving, which means Miami wasn’t scared of him and could sag off him.

by Tim S. on Jun 1, 2011 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

i'd go

1.Rose
2.Watson
3. Deng
4. Noah
5. Brewer

I think Bogans might have average handles, but he never dribbles more than three feet.

for dribbling.

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on Jun 1, 2011 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

That sounds about right.

The problem is that Watson doesn’t know what to do with it when he dribbles. He can dribble all day but usually finishes with a bad shot. He’s better with the catch-and-shoot three pointer, but he isn’t very good at the two-man game (give and go, pick and roll, pick and pop).

Deng may take all day to dribble to the basket but he knows how to finish and is also more efficient on pull-up shots than Watson.

by Tim S. on Jun 1, 2011 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

That is one strength about Bogans

The dude always knows his limitations.

by chowder on Jun 1, 2011 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

othan than cj

brewer…
he played pg a little in high school, and while that probably doesnt mean much, it does mean he can handle the ball.

Deng is a good dribbler when hes attacking, but i think its less with his ability to dribble and more his awareness when he attacks the basket. He usually picks up his dribble when things get tough, and on the fastbreak he tends to keep his head down, not to mention i think he can get doubled team and picked or trapped far easier than a brewer.

Brewer does a good job of putting the ball on the floor and not going out of control, hes obviously not at the nba pg level of dribbling, no one on the bulls team is, but he can bring the ball up, he can keep it in play, he can keep his head up….and i cant say that about deng or noah really.

I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!

by piccolomair on Jun 1, 2011 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Brewer may be able to bring the ball up the floor,

but I don’t ever remember him on the dribble drive to the basket.

by Tim S. on Jun 1, 2011 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Team assignment: DONT PLAY NERVOUS in playoffs

Personally i think the whole team played stiff and scared, and the offense had flow problems because of that as much as team defenses for several parts of the first two rounds.

by iBurkey on Jun 1, 2011 1:02 AM CDT reply actions  

Nervous? Not really.

The offense has flow problems right from the start of the season. It was just exposed because against other teams, we can win w/ defense alone. Against the Heat, we just can’t rely on defense, we need both.

Walk the talk, Bulls.

by JLbuLL on Jun 1, 2011 5:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, there were plenty of boneheaded plays and bad shots.

But I don’t see how to practice that during the off season. The only cure is to climb the mountain again and again until the nervousness wears off.

by Tim S. on Jun 1, 2011 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nice analysis

I like your analysis chowder. I would tack on a couple more things that I’ve noticed and would love the get feedback on from anyone.

Rose: I think he needs to solidify his confidence in creating for a mid-range shot. When a defender is up on him he is thinking “blow-by.” But against the second wave of defenders he may not be always able to finish or he may be forced into tough jump passes as we’ve all seen him do. This kind of works in hand with your assessment about Derrick needed to be more of a tactician, and I fully agree. I’d like to see him at times read the second wave of defenders and let that dictate whether he penetrates or creates for say a step back jumper.

Watson: He terrifies me as a ball handler at times. He looks like he has such a high dribble.

Noah: I loved your recommendation about ambidextrous finishing because the potential is definitely there. I would also like to see both he and Taj have one move they can use among other bigs whether off an entry pass or of the offensive glass…like an up and under or something.

Bogans: I’d like to see him add on the ability to pump, one or two bounces and shoot. It seems like running off the 3pt line is all you have to do with him because he can’t hit a mid-range shot.

Asik: He needs work on his hands in general. I think the main reason he isn’t finishing well is that he always bobbles a pass, allowing defenders to get back on him. I also think he needs to improve his conditioning.

Brewer: become solid from mid-range in addition to the ability to hit a 3 once in a while

by Joel Charalambakis on Jun 1, 2011 7:10 PM CDT reply actions  

my take

Rose:
bring back that midrange J.
improve consistency on 3.
improve pnr defense

Deng
continue on working on his 3

Boozer:
learn to flop. watch bosh and big baby

Noah
Mid range + free throws
finish strong on putbacks

Taj
needs to be stronger
elbow jumper ala mcdyess

Asik
Free throws
work on his strengh

Korver
curl, pump fake, jump in. repeat 10x

Brewer
mid range J
spot up 3

Watson
calm down

Gar Forman
find someone that can create his own shot like jamal crawford or a smart version of JR Smith

Thibs
new plays in offense
dont play Booz and Korver together vs athletic teams

Dwight
come to chicago lol

by trig on Jun 1, 2011 10:11 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

Asik and Taj

CATCH THE DAMN BALL!

'Don't believe in you who believe in me and don't believe in me who believes in you, but believe in you who believe in yourself'

by T.Moore on Jun 2, 2011 12:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

imo part of it is strength

a minor bump causes them to lose balance. Noah had the same problem until he came back bigger 2 seasons ago

by trig on Jun 2, 2011 6:31 AM CDT reply actions  

Dude

its ok to say the word “fuck” As in Fuck Rondo, Fuck Lebron…etc

'Don't believe in you who believe in me and don't believe in me who believes in you, but believe in you who believe in yourself'

by T.Moore on Jun 2, 2011 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sorry..

I just remember the same hating from him back when Rose was a rookie, and remember telling him to stop being reactionary back then. Before this season, in Jerry’s eyes, he wasnt good enough to be the best player on our team. During the MVP season he suddenly was though…

Now he reverts back to this?

I just think my days of believing we can win a title with him as the best player, are over with.

Really man? Again, we’re discussing a 22 year old here. A 22 year old that had to pass on completely uncontested 3’s and couldn’t play a lick of D as a rookie. Now he’s a mid 30% shooter from 3, and can be counted on to hit the uncontested tre. The defensive growth he has shown now makes me believe he can be one of the best defenders at his position. He has solidified himself as a top 5 player in his 3rd year in the league. He has already proven that he can learn from his deficiencies and work to improve upon them. He’s only going to continue to improve over the next three years. His decision making will continue to grow with age/experience and we will continue to tweak the roster to his strengths.

Now, I don’t think he will ever be a true ‘pure’ point. I believe the gift of distributing and creating good shots for teammates is something that a player has by this time. Rose will never by Chris Paul, etc. in this regard, but that is hardly a knock on him. He is a sufficient PG and his scoring ability will always help create space/shots for teammates. However, he has proven to me that he can control the pace/flow of games. This is what makes him a floor general, in my eyes, and makes me hopeful for his development as a PG. Most players do not have this ability at such a young age.

His ceiling has not been reached.

by brose on Jun 2, 2011 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

LOL

With some more reading of JBJ…

Rose is the main reason we lost to Miami.

This seriously makes me question his understanding of the game of basketball. That is a completely baseless and idiotic claim.

by brose on Jun 2, 2011 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Good stuff

Rose has to become more of a prober with the dribble, hes either behind the arc or straight at the Defense too often

I get clients down to 5% body fat with ease you fucking idiot. - dakoose

by Trey23 on Jun 5, 2011 7:40 PM CDT reply actions  

I want Rose to practice throwing alley-oops. Shouldn't be too hard.

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on Jun 6, 2011 11:39 AM CDT reply actions  

Less well thought out homework assignments:

Rose: Practice the three pointer. Further, as we saw with LeBron’s collapse, your star needs a small bag of tricks to create points in the fourth quarter. Kareem had his skyhook, Jordan had his fadeaway jumpshot, LeBron has nothing and Rose has nothing. Rose needs to develop the ???? as a go to method of scoring. He needs a mid-range game of some type, like Jordan had a mid-range game and Paul Pierce has a mid-range game.

Deng: Ball handling, three pointer, mid-range game. I do not know how to drill the last of these, but I think that this is his strength and if he can develop a few new tricks here, he can only get better.

Noah: FINISHING! Mid-range jumper. Maybe even a few post moves, although I am not sure how this could work out with the offense. If he really gets into the gym and develops his game he will be an all-star. I am not sure about how disciplined he is about these things but he definitely seems like he has the desire.

Boozer: Defensive rotations, finishing strong, post-moves. I do not know how to drill defensive rotations. I think that great defenders are born not made. Boozer was an abortion. Maybe he can get it together…
He needs to finish strong and finish with confidence. He rarely got plus-ones. He needs to get the open shot and shoot with confidence. I hope he has the will to buy into improving and buy into becoming a defensive player. Reggie Miller said it best when he described his defense as ‘statuesque’.

Korver: Ball-handling!!! I actually think that he is a better defensive player than people give him credit for. If he gets a foul, it is because he simply lacks the athleticism to keep up with the other SGs. However, he is rarely out of position and does a good job of contesting at the perimeter.

Gibson: Mid-range jumper! Beyond that, I am not sure how he could add another dimension to his game. I think that he is a bit undersized at his position to develop a great post-game, although I am sure there are counterexamples. Perhaps he could develop a three pointer and really stretch the floor. Maybe develop a mid-range game in general a-la Paul Pierce.

Asik: Finishing! Finish with both hands! His hands got better during the season but there was a while there where I was convinced he could not catch the ball. Maybe some post moves as a long term project.

Brewer: He is one of my favorite players and I think that he has found his role as an energy guy off of the bench. However, I think that he may be physically incapable of improving his shot. What is the deal with this? Waterslide accident? Both thumbs broken in the Indiana series? If he could learn to shoot we would be in a good spot.

Bogans: Three ball, obviously. If he could dribble a bit and do something other than the three pointer, that would be nice also.

Watson: Ball-handling! Get that ball down to your waist!

Kurt Thomas: Come over to my house! Hang out!

by THEKILLERWHALE on Jun 18, 2011 6:34 PM CDT reply actions  

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