FanPost

Post-Celtics game whining about MVP and Hollinger

One day there will be a better way to do this, technologically. And the alternative is just to delete them.

But honestly, if this had something to do with the game, enlighten me.

And I think less of everyone who unfairly bashes hollinger than those who unfairly bash Rose. I guess I relate more to Hollinger's brand of tortured genius than Rose's, heh.  He's winning the award anyway, you animals.The point is I hate you guys.

Sorry this looks like crap.

 

 

 

6th? I seriously need to know the 5 ahead (although I'm sure all I have to do is look at the PER leaderboards)
johnhollinger John Hollinger
Have him 6th, not 300th. He’s really good. But MVP vibe is cuz Cs scored 81 and not 101. @chicagofan999 still think Rose shouldn’t be MVP?

I didn't want to type this sentence, the force from an Omer Asik dunk made my fingers do it.

by Juiceboxjerry on Apr 8, 2011 12:10 AM CDT reply actions  

This fuckin' guy...

eat. sleep. hoop. repeat. become legendary.

by Sir Buckets on Apr 8, 2011 12:10 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

if i had more power and pull

i would run a background check on this guy and find out how many mental disorders hes been diagnosed with

"I ran into lebron last night, asked him for a dollar. He gave me 75 cents. I was puzzled, then realized he never gives you the fourth quarter"

by sin on Apr 8, 2011 12:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

If I had more power and pull, it would go down something like this at his PER estate

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhbrAkY_58s&feature=related

eat. sleep. hoop. repeat. become legendary.

by Sir Buckets on Apr 8, 2011 12:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

He seriously probably didn't watch the game tonight

I think he’s in Portland tonight. And does he not understand that the Bulls probably score in the 70s without Rose?

by JSB on Apr 8, 2011 12:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

There are so many fucking things wrong with PER

and it seems that he ceases to fix it, but rather, try to explain why he doesn’t put other factors in it.

by NittanyCub on Apr 8, 2011 12:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

There's nothing wrong with PER

It’s fine if you use it as an approximation for which players are the most productive.

It’s problematic when you attempt to use it as a list for the best players in the NBA like Hollinger does.

by JSB on Apr 8, 2011 12:13 AM CDT up reply actions   5 recs

Exactly

I didn't want to type this sentence, the force from an Omer Asik dunk made my fingers do it.

by Juiceboxjerry on Apr 8, 2011 12:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's pretty obvious that's what he does too

Not having Rose as MVP is understandable. Not having Rose in your top 5 is inexcusable.

by JSB on Apr 8, 2011 12:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

You still up JBJ?

Wondered if you went back to the Celt’s blog after your stellar prediction of the game with Rose and Rondo…you were my hero tonight!

"Fast Don't Lie"

by Sandberg's evil twin on Apr 8, 2011 1:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

haha, thanks

Nah, I’m not the type of person that likes to rub it in. I wasn’t trying to start shit earlier, just trying to have a little fun. If I talked smack right now, that would be pretty dick. They know what’s up ;)

I didn't want to type this sentence, the force from an Omer Asik dunk made my fingers do it.

by Juiceboxjerry on Apr 8, 2011 1:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't even think he watches the game

I think he just keeps hitting refresh on ESPN and looks for what numbers pop up next.

by macjack09 on Apr 8, 2011 12:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

Hollinger actually goes to a ton of games

I bet he watches more basketball than anyone that comments on this site.

by JSB on Apr 8, 2011 12:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think you missed my sarcasm

by macjack09 on Apr 8, 2011 12:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think he is a Hollinger relative

by JustAnotherFan on Apr 8, 2011 7:16 AM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

i guarantee he doesnt

"I ran into lebron last night, asked him for a dollar. He gave me 75 cents. I was puzzled, then realized he never gives you the fourth quarter"

by sin on Apr 8, 2011 12:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

Since it's his job and he goes to games almost every other night, I guarantee he does.

He can still be wrong about stuff.

by Ozzie Montana on Apr 8, 2011 12:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

well if you mean watching in person yeah

but watching games in general i can guarantee he doesnt. he even states that he doesnt watch a lot games on a given night.

"I ran into lebron last night, asked him for a dollar. He gave me 75 cents. I was puzzled, then realized he never gives you the fourth quarter"

by sin on Apr 8, 2011 12:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

I still bet he does

by JSB on Apr 8, 2011 12:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

could have fooled me

Rose: Who in the blue hell are you?
Rondo: Well
IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO YOU ARE!

by T.Moore on Apr 8, 2011 12:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

I really do not get why people care what he thinks, and keep asking if his opinion has changed.

It’s 100% obvious that he is stat-line obsessed, and he’s willing to bend the numbers to support his personal opinions (we’ve all seen cases where the stats don’t match his claims).

There are so many things stat lines don’t show. We’ve seen Rose contort himself to guide a block back inbounds while DH still likes swatting balls out of bounds so he can stop to do a Superman pose. There is no stat for that.

Where DH is willing to get a technical and let his team down with a suspension going into a game against a tough team, did you see Rose against the Suns when he was called for that (BS) blocking foul against Vince Carter? Rose started to jump up angry to argue, and quickly made himself stop. He laid back down, put his head back, took a deep breath, and then got up calm and avoided the technical. That’s pure leadership, and there’s no stat line for that.

When it comes to his LeBron James arguments, he doesn’t want to talk about how LBJ can’t beat good teams (let’s give an MVP trophy to someone who couldn’t will their team in almost any elite games all year long). When figuring “clutch” stats, he wants to count the last 5 minutes of a game. Well, that’s fine, but we’ve all seen LeBron’s “last 10 seconds when trailing or tied” stats — completely unreliable.

A lot of the absolute best things about Rose aren’t things that are captured in a stat line. That’s not something Hollinger will ever accept so it’s just not worth getting angry over.

ASIK AND DESTROY

by JStymie on Apr 8, 2011 12:26 AM CDT up reply actions   6 recs

People care what he thinks because most people around here have a good deal of respect for him (at least I know I do)

And when his observations about Rose are so out of line with what us fans think of him, it gets kind of aggravating.

I didn't want to type this sentence, the force from an Omer Asik dunk made my fingers do it.

by Juiceboxjerry on Apr 8, 2011 1:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

i have little respect for holl

but (believe it or not, considering my typically sloppy b-a-b posts re: the metrics) his formulas are very interesting to me. i used to do something similar, even if much simpler, many years ago before i lost interest. (got bored, i was a kid. as long as it is someone else doing the work though, the “power” formula’s plenty interesting.)

funny things:

- the bulls (#1, 107.790) just dropped 0.152, how? by beating the (#7/#8, @ 105) celtics by more than twice their avg margin? i’m guessing this game pushed one of the bulls’ 30 or 40 point blowout games outside the formula “window”. (hollinger seems to weigh heavily on the last 10 games, and perhaps the last 25.)

- watching houston. though they’ve been outside the conference top 8 all year, he’s ranked them 10 or 11 most of the season, ahead of some playoff rivals. tonight, portland just passed them with their win in utah, joining memphis as houston’s “superiors”. but the hornets are still @1.8 behind, despite being 4.5 games ahead (in the real nba)! it might even out as the last games get played, or might not… but it’s fun to watch!

scalabrine runs everything. fuck scalabrine!

by marionette on Apr 8, 2011 4:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

"even out"

the chasm between hou and noh might even out by the end

scalabrine runs everything. fuck scalabrine!

by marionette on Apr 8, 2011 4:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, the last ten games weigh heavily

in the Power Rankings. The Power Rankings also ignore wins and losses in favor of point differential. Like many statistical measures, it’s interesting as long as you know what it does and does not measure.

by Tim S. on Apr 8, 2011 6:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

No, not last 10 games, it's last 25% of the season

by kozzer on Apr 8, 2011 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think his formulas are very interesting.

I love stats, I am very much a stats guy, but you cannot let them become the 100% focus of your sports talk. We’ve seen how much good that did for baseball — a lot of guys try to act like baseball is practically a sim these days and try to deny the “human element” at every turn (even though it constantly interjects [and then the Giants win the world series]).

I don’t want to see it go that far in basketball, too.

ASIK AND DESTROY

by JStymie on Apr 8, 2011 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

wait i dont get his point.

He says Rose is his 6th fav for the mvp? and he likes him because the Cs scored 81?

Cutler and Rose are bringing back Chicago sports.

by Faizamaze on Apr 8, 2011 12:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

He says people are giving Rose props for holding the C’s to 81 points.

by macjack09 on Apr 8, 2011 12:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

sarcasm?

Cutler and Rose are bringing back Chicago sports.

by Faizamaze on Apr 8, 2011 12:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

No. He is just bringing up another issue that has nothing to do with Rose’s performance tonight. He is omitting the fact that Rose had 30 point and 8 dimes and shut Rondo down for the most part this game and is saying Rose fanatics want Rose to win it because “he held the Celtics to 81 points”. So yeah, there is a little sarcasm there I guess.

by macjack09 on Apr 8, 2011 12:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

He saying that with out his teams good defense everyone would have been so in awe of Derrick performance.

What I don’t like about that tired argument is that it assumes Derrick isn’t playing an important role in the defense. He wasn’t great at the start of the season, but he has been working his butt off on defense. He might bight on some fakes, but he is challenging shots that no other point guard is getting to. Right now, I don’t think you would be off base to call Derrick the best defensive point guard in the league.

by silentpete on Apr 8, 2011 12:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

Gak,*wouldn't have been so in awe

by silentpete on Apr 8, 2011 12:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

That's taking things a bit far

He’s probably not even the best defensive point guard on the Bulls.

Still he does seem to be a good defender at this point.

by tuluse on Apr 8, 2011 12:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

to suggest that the bulls go all out on d DESPITE rose

is flawed.
If anything, its because roses talents on the offensive end, that the bulls can focus so much in practice and in games on the defensive end. They know if they can keep the games close or keep the other team from scoring, rose can win us games, without rose guys like luol and boozer are relied more upon to score, and if they fail we fall in deep holes. Luol was 0-4 to begin the game today, if not for rose, he might not have had a good shot the whole first half

I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!

by piccolomair on Apr 8, 2011 2:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

c'mon!
He’s probably not even the best defensive point guard on the Bulls.

you might be taking the bench mob/c.j. stats a bit far????

scalabrine runs everything. fuck scalabrine!

by marionette on Apr 8, 2011 4:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

dude, cj has been really good this year at exactly one thing, and thats defense, where hes been a goddamn savant so far.

"if Jonny [Flynn] loved playin competeant basketball az much az he loves de movie Salt
he might be ok."

- MAYNHOLUP

by TheMoon on Apr 8, 2011 5:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

i know

but i’ll take rose’s last 10 min of the 4th over c.j.’s 10 mins vs the other bench anyway.

scalabrine runs everything. fuck scalabrine!

by marionette on Apr 8, 2011 5:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

CJ has been great... but do you honestly think the bench mob wouldn't be

a little better if Rose was out there with Brewer, Deng, Taj, and Sheek facing the other teams second unit. How rose rotate to a bigger player and stifle them when they try to post him up. He is fighting over screens and challenging shots most guys don’t have the speed or the hops to get to.,,, and he is doing it against guys like Paul and Williams.

A lot of the time Rose’s guys score it is because the team defense broke down behind him and not because of anything Rose did wrong.

by silentpete on Apr 8, 2011 7:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm guessing Kobe, Dirk, Howard, Lebron and either Wade or CP3

Pat Riley is the devil.

by Poloplaya14 on Apr 8, 2011 12:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

Hollinger is a asshat.

He acts like he’s in some kind of club that knows something we all don’t, when in reality every stupid thing that comes out of his mouth is basically angled to promote\protect his wonderous creation….PER. Thats it.

Hes not on the DRose MVP bandwagon simply because DRose isn’t the best player according to his PER and if he were to win it…it may tarnish its relevance.

End of story btw.

Lu-Deng Clan Aint Nuttin ta Fuck Wit !

by mrdope on Apr 8, 2011 12:42 AM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

But didn't he say he thinks it's Howard, who isn't #1 in PER?

Personally, I think the wins should count for something, especially when Rose is clearly the leader of this team in just about every sense.

by kozzer on Apr 8, 2011 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

in order

howard
lbj
kobe
dirk
wade

I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!

by piccolomair on Apr 8, 2011 1:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

soooooo will we ever get an explanation for kevin love's eminence on the PER

list and his conspicuous absence on the MVP list?

"if Jonny [Flynn] loved playin competeant basketball az much az he loves de movie Salt
he might be ok."

- MAYNHOLUP

by TheMoon on Apr 8, 2011 5:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, Hollinger doesn't like his defense.

That’s the explanation, but I’m suspicious. I think Hollinger might also be embarrassed to put Love on the list.

by Tim S. on Apr 8, 2011 6:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

but dirks defense and rebounding are good enough i guess? i dunno, i always hear about how defense

is largely the product of your PF and C, and dirk plays with a nice defender in chandler, so why does dirk get a pass for the mavs “only” being 11th in defensive efficiency while rose gets blasted for his team being 11th in offensive efficiency?

"if Jonny [Flynn] loved playin competeant basketball az much az he loves de movie Salt
he might be ok."

- MAYNHOLUP

by TheMoon on Apr 8, 2011 7:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

That is an understatement.
with a nice defender in chandler

Chandler will get votes for DPOY, and is a threat to win it if DHoward continues to piss off the voters with his shit attitude.

Until we get a tagline, yfbb=your friendly Bogans blogger.

by Dionysus2.0 on Apr 8, 2011 7:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

i just remember the exact quote from the podcast

with rusillo. It was funny cuz the way the conversation went, rusillo asks him to name the top 5 and he does 4, howard lbj (or kobe is what he says) dirk and then…(he pauses) at this point rusillo laughs and says go ahead and just say something crazy, say, steph curry or something….and john hollinger finishes with “i think id put wade in there” so..yea

Like i said, i think this is more of a bit from hollinger, i dont think he believes have the things he writes, but all the negative attention is still attention…

I wholeheartedly expect him to write an article or come on air and downplay the game laslt night using some numerical logic that basketball smurf found on that daily dime live chat

I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!

by piccolomair on Apr 8, 2011 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

I seriously think he's just fucking around with us now in return for all the angry emails Rose fans send him

"Nothing can happen till you swing the bat." -Haruko Haruhara

by windycitywarrior on Apr 8, 2011 2:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

he just wants to let us know that we wouldnt feel the same about the game and derrick if

the bulls had given up 117 points per 100 possessions. admit it, you’re all impressed this guy found a job where he gets paid to do nothing.

"Omer's 3rd dunk last night
sent me far enough back in time to capitalize on Morehead State’s win yesterday. Thank you Omer!"

- NerdVernacular

"if Jonny [Flynn] loved playin competeant basketball az much az he loves de movie Salt
he might be ok."

- MAYNHOLUP

Stern told the room he knows where "the bodies are buried" in the NBA, witnesses recounted, because he had buried some of them himself.

by TheMoon on Apr 8, 2011 2:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

I just love how he's constantly shading his arguments to make Rose look bad

Like when he said Rose doesn’t deserve to be MVP because he’s an offensive player, and our offense is mediocre (currently 11th in off eff I believe). And that we’re actually winning with defense. Meanwhile, he says Chris Paul is more deserving, but his team is even worse on offense, and is also winning with D, but you don’t hear a word about it.

There’s tons of little inconsistencies like that that are going on, but then he tries to play it off like he’s not doing this to get a rise out of people. Honestly, he’s eating this up right now, because hes getting tons of attention from a big market team’s fanbase.

I didn't want to type this sentence, the force from an Omer Asik dunk made my fingers do it.

by Juiceboxjerry on Apr 8, 2011 2:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

i suspect he also wishes us to know that the bulls won this game with defense

and that derrick is pretty irrelevant defensively. but perhaps your common sense is saying, “wait a minute, derrick just spent 40 minutes guarding the other teams best ball handler— how is that contribution irrelevant?” well in that case, john wants you to know he doesnt care and hes been drinking heavy beer all season.

"if Jonny [Flynn] loved playin competeant basketball az much az he loves de movie Salt
he might be ok."

- MAYNHOLUP

by TheMoon on Apr 8, 2011 4:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

John Hollincamp is not the enemy.

Rondo is.

(although really, now he’s just playing WWE villain. Maybe he feels good when his email inbox is full.)

Check out Bulls coverage at SB Nation - Chicago or on twitter @rightfieldsucks

by Right_Field_Sucks on Apr 8, 2011 3:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

He's just making an

dick of himself at this point.

Hey Rose. I don't see the appeal!

by Dils on Apr 8, 2011 8:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

can we honestly not have every game recap devolve into talk about MVP and Hollinger?

There’s other (awful) threads for that.

BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 8, 2011 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

This was just purposefully inflammatory:
@johnhollinger
@BQRMagic you can still envy away. While Chicago fans were filling my inbox, I was at the Bridgeport enjoying the Cafe Negro porter.

He’s apparently gloating that he didn’t even watch the game tonight?

by jpx7 on Apr 8, 2011 1:57 AM CDT reply actions  

Yep...total Douche

by RED_BULL on Apr 8, 2011 1:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

like he ever watches games, all he does is look at stats and his previous PER

then he makes irrational judgement base on his biased opinions.

by ajayflying23 on Apr 8, 2011 1:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

*precious

by ajayflying23 on Apr 8, 2011 1:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

its like hes enjoying & loving it....Thinking hes GOD.

by RED_BULL on Apr 8, 2011 2:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

any publicity is good publicity

by tuluse on Apr 8, 2011 2:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

You're all taking the bait!

"Nothing can happen till you swing the bat." -Haruko Haruhara

by windycitywarrior on Apr 8, 2011 2:34 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Not taking it.

Just sort of looking at it.

by jpx7 on Apr 8, 2011 2:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

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