Postgame: Warriors 101 , Bulls 90
by Sports2 on Feb 6, 2011 12:00 AM CST
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PrintUpdate: Here's the four factors. And a few thoughts. ~S2
| Four Factors | ||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Pace | eFG% | TOV% | ORB% | FT/FGA | ORtg | |
| CHI | 89.9 | .525 | 15.7 | 23.1 | .075 | 100.1 |
| GSW | .519 | 7.3 | 14.3 | .241 | 112.4 | |
We came in second. Discuss.
Well, that sucked. The obvious cause of last night's loss was the Bulls inability to break the traps Stephen Curry and Monta Ellis applied to Derrick Rose. CJ Watson came in and laid an egg. I'd say lay some bricks, but he barely managed to hit the rim. I guess the question going forward is how much of the poor performance was caused by an off night vs. how much was caused by a good strategy from Warriors coach Keith Smart (by the way, can we assume he didn't learn that from Don Nelson?). It matters because we'll certainly see that strategy more in the future, and we need to be able to break it.
Another quick guard who can at least somewhat reliably bring the ball up the floor would help. Another area a quick big guard would help is defensively. Overlooked in the talk about Rose's bad game is that the Bulls, IMO, did an uncharacteristically poor job defensively. Ellis and Curry are freaking fast, and we could neither stick with them nor find someone to stop them at the rim. Would this not have been a good night to try to camp out Omer Asik under the basket and tell him to knock down those guys if they got close? Chalkwhite, who wrote up a nice preview, by the way, has a nice recap in which he notes
I don't want to make it seem like we just shot ourselves in the foot- the Warriors had a great game plan. They packed the paint with bodies and dared us to beat them with jumpers. On the other side, we laid out a red carpet to the paint- even when they weren't scoring, Ellis, Curry, Wright and Lee were absolutely living in the paint.
Yeah. So anyway, it's a road game against a well-prepared team. No cause to panic, but, like Derrick Rose, I think losing sucks and we should take some lessons from it.
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Stephen Curry was the best player on the floor tonight
He looked really good.
Pat Riley is the devil.
no, Monta Ellis was the best player on the floor tonight
by Basketball Smurf on Feb 6, 2011 12:09 AM CST up reply actions
I disagree
Ellis got his, but Curry was running the offense and creating for others. His decision-making was excellent, and even though he wasn’t racking up tons of assists, I’d say he was the primary reason why GS’s offense flowed as well as it did late.
Pat Riley is the devil.
I agree
Ellis was very active defensively. GSW had a great game plan and Ellis’ hands were everywhere. I haven’t seen much of GSW, but they seemed to play some really strong defense overall. Every single guy was busting his ass on rotations/traps
Doesn’t seem very moral to me. Might as well take Satan’s autograph while you’re at it. - N.C.
yeah i was going to say that in to reply to polo
but didn’t have the energy. Ellis took the primary assignment of guarding Rose – he was really active on both ends, always attacking. I was impressed.
by Basketball Smurf on Feb 6, 2011 12:01 PM CST up reply actions
It happens.
Bulls will just have to dust them selves off and move on.
We all know the defense is better than that. And historically we’d had rough games on west coast road trips.
"The advanced metrics guys do not like Derrick Rose very much." - Bills Simmons podcast 2/4
by RogersPark Kris on Feb 6, 2011 12:02 AM CST reply actions
Warriors were playing with a whole lot of confidence tonight
It seemed like every time the camera panned on them they were laughing or giving each other high fives.
GS has been playing pretty well lately
I’d imagine it’d feel pretty good to shut the Bulls out as well as they did.
And Thibs said, "Let there be 3's" And Deng shot 3's
And Deng saw the 3's, that they were good
And didn't shoot long 2's anymore
by windycitywarrior on Feb 6, 2011 12:11 AM CST up reply actions
There's no reason to even THINK about panickinf
Relax everyone, it was just a feb game. We were on a six game win streak before this, we’ve still got a damn good team.
Guess that puts the end of the Bogans Prophecy he hit two 3s and we lost I was so sure that when I saw him make his second trey that, that was gametime for us althought it was fun while lasted.
by Bullsfansince88 on Feb 6, 2011 12:06 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
It could be worse
You could be a cavs fan.
And Thibs said, "Let there be 3's" And Deng shot 3's
And Deng saw the 3's, that they were good
And didn't shoot long 2's anymore
by windycitywarrior on Feb 6, 2011 12:09 AM CST reply actions
though it's very frustrating, this happens to every team
we’re not basketball Gods. no need to panic or bash too much.
Yeah I’m not even that upset even the 72-10 Bulls lost to the sorry ass Nuggets back in ’96.
by Bullsfansince88 on Feb 6, 2011 12:13 AM CST up reply actions
I was at that game.
I’m still pissed off about it. The Bulls were down by more than 20 in the third quarter and came back to take the lead late in the game. Then, some of the Nuggets hit some impossible shots (including a three-pointer by some nobody) and the Bulls were just too tired.
The Nuggets weren’t pushovers and actually had some decent players on that team. But, if memory serves, the Bulls came in about 18-3, and it was in the middle of their long circus road trip, and they were just road weary.
Yeah, if Michael is still pissed off, he’s got company.
IF IT TAKES FOREVER!!
by Cubfansince1957 on Feb 6, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
no I think the Bulls were once 38-3 that year
they may have been 18-2
"I love you, mommy!" - Joakim Noah
9 Turnovers
I didn’t see the game; how did Rose have 9 TO? and only 2 foul shots at the end of the game?
Really aggressive double teams.
When Curry and Ellis closed in on him they’d swipe it out of his hands if he held on or made a bad pass. Confidence seemed to wane as the game went on.
And Thibs said, "Let there be 3's" And Deng shot 3's
And Deng saw the 3's, that they were good
And didn't shoot long 2's anymore
by windycitywarrior on Feb 6, 2011 12:15 AM CST up reply actions
GS was trapping rose after he dribbled past halfcourt all game
resulting in a few TOs on tipped passes out of the trap, 2nd defenders sneaking up from behind and poking the ball away when Rose wasn’t looking, losing the ball trying to do too much on the break, and a few mishandled dribbles/passes. Rose’s ballhandling in general tonight looked a bit shaky.
And Bulls lack somebody else to bring the ball up?
You’d figure Thibs would have some kind of adjustment in his back pocket for traps like that…
Thibs did try to adjust by sticking Watson in the game with Rose to take pressure off the traps
but Watson’s game was off tonight too. Thibs finally pulled him after I believe his 2nd airball followed by a 24 second violation.
Thibs also adjusted by using the same trap that GS was using on Derrick and forcing the ball out of Curry’s hands. I thought Thibs did a good job putting his players in a position to succeed, but it was just one of those nights where the Bulls couldn’t get anything going and the focus from Bulls’ players wasn’t there. I believe GS got two breakway layups/dunks at the end when the Bulls were trying to mount a comeback; that essentially killed the rally.
Missing Noah mid court screens
Thanks for good perceptions re Rose TO…GS might be the team where Noah ability to handle the ball a bit, and his overall quickness on screens and running the court could have made a big difference…. IIRC, Noah would help out guards in midcourt in the past…and you could pass to him if you got in trouble and he’d go get the pass even if a bit errant…in other words, he’d help make teams pay for traps…
by Cholla on Feb 6, 2011 12:30 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Funny...like it was only tonight.
Watson’s game was off tonight too
He has been more bad than good for the Bulls this season, and tonight’s game really demonstrates why back-up point guard/secondary ball handler is the weakest position for the team…
Until we get a tagline, yfbb=your friendly Bogans blogger.
"HERP DURP"
Tom Thibodeau’s response when asked what his favorite offensive set is.
Anarchist. Misanthrope. Beard aficionado.
He was one shy of his second...
Triple Double…toward the end, I was almost rooting for it!
Bad decision making on Rose’s part and aggressive D by the Warriors…
Until we get a tagline, yfbb=your friendly Bogans blogger.
Memo to "If it's not broken don't fix it" crowd.
Bulls have exactly one good ballhandler on the roster. When teams start triple-teaming him, guess what happens?
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 6, 2011 12:13 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
True
Really, CJ is th only other decent ball handler. But the Bulls arent crazy about running a Rose/Watson back court.
"The advanced metrics guys do not like Derrick Rose very much." - Bills Simmons podcast 2/4
by RogersPark Kris on Feb 6, 2011 12:15 AM CST up reply actions
i can understand why
cj watson is brutal. Tonight totally turned me on him. i wasn’t happy before but seeing him airball shots and get torched on defense by Curry or Ellis was really troublesome. Doesn’t seem like a guy you can count on in the playoffs at all.
by Basketball Smurf on Feb 6, 2011 12:17 AM CST up reply actions
Yep, he's been terrible for the whole season, occasionally masked when he hits a few jumpers.
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 6, 2011 12:30 AM CST up reply actions
It's mind-boggling how poorly he's shooting this season considering how well he shot the ball in Golden State.
Pat Riley is the devil.
Good to see some people come around.
I’ve been the only one on this site harping about CJ completely sucking ass this year. He’s a selfish, garbage ballplayer who’s all about chucking up shots when he’s in the game, and HE CANT SCORE. He needs to get the fuck off this team.
Um...you have not been the only one...
I have been calling CJ a useless sack of shit all season; but, like you, I get shouted down by the Bogans hate brigade…
I noticed his selfish style of play very early in the season…he has been the type to chuck shots outside the flow of the offense all season…
A selfish chucker really does not fit in well with what this team is trying to do…I would trade him to Orlando for Duhon in a second…
Until we get a tagline, yfbb=your friendly Bogans blogger.
I just dont understand why he forgot how to shoot the ball
The guy hit about 45% of his jumpshots the past two years. This year, he’s barely above 30%. And he’s obviously useless when he’s not scoring.
Pat Riley is the devil.
I was a little bit lukewarm on him when I went back last summer and actually looked at him in depth
He really seems to be a feast or famine type of guy.
BullsTwo > Back up and running!
I was REALLY down on CJ Watson, but I can kind of ... abide him, at this point
Kind of like Bogans actually.
believes in the Keith Bogans Prophecy [12-0]
Because most teams don't have the guys to pickpocket Rose. Ellis pretty much owned him tonight.
Usually he’s strong enough to split the trap.
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 6, 2011 12:33 AM CST up reply actions
Ellis' ownage of Rose is gonna haunt me for decades
(obviously joking, but I really am bothered by it)
I believe in The Bogans Prophecy.
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 6, 2011 12:36 AM CST up reply actions
Thats true Curry and Ellis are not on every NBA team.
Two guys that quick are trouble for Rose. He got a dose of his own medicine.
Curry's not very quick
He’s just a really heady player
I believe in The Bogans Prophecy.
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 6, 2011 12:37 AM CST up reply actions
hes roses height....
thats why it worked…monta and curry are roses height, they are lower to the ground.
when rose is doubled team he either tries to split the defenders by going between them, or hes more aggressive dribbling on the bigger players side (of the two who are guarding him) because the bigger player can only really body up rose. In this case though there was no real bigger player. If rose tried to go between the two guys monta was stripping rose, if rose tried to go on montas side the trap followed and monta was…stripping or pressuring rose, if he went currys side the trap followed and curry was stripping rose….rose had nowhere to go, and those two were extra aggressive….
couple that with the up and down game, and roses frustration…and rose was sucking thus the bulls were sucking…gs played a great defense against rose. Too bad we dont get another shot at them this year, rose probably wants revenge….worst game of his career>?
I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!
Or get a foul call...and he wasn't getting a call when he tried to split tonight
by hitlesswonder on Feb 6, 2011 12:44 AM CST up reply actions
Where there should be a foul called
it was a fucking travel.
Whats worse?
End of the world?
or watching Bogans and Cj play?
That was brutal
his pivot foot never even moved!
why can't Neil pick on Bogans for once?
by Rose Colored Goggles on Feb 6, 2011 8:41 AM CST up reply actions
if rose is triple teamed
then the other 4 bulls don’t need to be great ball handlers if they’ve only 2 defenders to beat.
the team needs to be improved though, and it is good to mention the possibility/probability that the backup point is more lacking than the “obvious” 2 spot.
actually, this might be another reason for hesitation re: selling the farm for a 2 guard.
The name of the team is ARIZONA DIAMONDBACKS - "I tried to convince them that what they were doing was an aberration, an imbecility, a stupidity without name"
Well, if CJ is traded to get a 2, they at least need to get some semblence of a 1 back as well
But I don’t think I agree with your position that this game means backup point is a bigger problem than 2.
Basically, most good teams don’t, and shouldn’t compensate for a press by having to put two PGs on the floor. Most good teams have a two guard who’s further on the guard spectrum than the Bulls. That is, he’s a guy who, while not at all a point, is a guy who can certainly bring the ball up. Actually I’d think the guy that should be able to do this for the Bulls is Brewer. He can run, dribble and pass…
Am I totally wrong on this?
BullsTwo > Back up and running!
that's not my position; that's why i wrote "possibility/probability"
in that order.
my position is they shoulda given kyle weaver a (real) shot.
cj not being very good against his former team + korver in the game + plus thomas out of the game + plus no noah to help with the press + plus the refs on one side (seemingly) = last night.
the way i remember it, by the time deng and brewer were back in, their guards had been given a big confidence boost and the momentum had turned.
The name of the team is ARIZONA DIAMONDBACKS - "I tried to convince them that what they were doing was an aberration, an imbecility, a stupidity without name"
Heh, yeah, he would be nice to have given a shot to
On that note, I noticed he was waived by the James Johnson-led Iowa Energy “due to injury”. That blows.
BullsTwo > Back up and running!
meh i think the Bulls need one of these L's once in a while, they cant be too confident w/ their record, and a loss will make them hungry every now and then
AND ONE!!!!!! YOU MUTHAFUCKING PIECE OF SHIT REF!!!! AND ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What he say?
I believe in The Bogans Prophecy.
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 6, 2011 12:36 AM CST up reply actions
Oh that., yeah
I’m positive of it, You could see the entire game that they wanted to fuck Rose up badly. They didn’t just want to beat the Bulls. That’s why this one is bugging me so much. Derrick just kinda… wilted. That’s not how shit’s supposed to happen when you’re an MVP type guy. Did you see what happened when Dwight Howard tried to fuck with Lebron? Exactly.
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 6, 2011 12:44 AM CST up reply actions
Honestly, I think Derrick didn't know what to do
I don’t think it was lack of mental toughness. He was doubled across halfcourt and if he tried to split he’d turn the ball over. Had no room to shoot. Often had no good lane to pass the ball. I don’t think Ellis fucking with Rose did much of anything. I think it was a good defensive scheme against a team that has no second guard and lacks outside shooting.
I agree that Rose made mistakes (in particular dribbling away from the hoop under pressure and allowing a double to poke the ball away a couple times). But I think coaching fixes this. It’s not Rose’s will to win that was lacking.
by hitlesswonder on Feb 6, 2011 12:51 AM CST up reply actions
D-Rose had a bad game.. He owns Curry and Ellis anytime any day
AND ONE!!!!!! YOU MUTHAFUCKING PIECE OF SHIT REF!!!! AND ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Juan dela Cruz on Feb 6, 2011 12:47 AM CST up reply actions
Just letting you know
I blame Rose’s TOs completely on your questioning of Curry’s ballhandling recently. Seems like it turned out to be bad karma.
Pat Riley is the devil.
Great, more things to feel shitty about
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 6, 2011 1:12 AM CST up reply actions
NO
WE NEVER JOKE
believes in the Keith Bogans Prophecy [12-0]
I know, I know
but I still feel shitty, it’s just reminding me how pissed I am that Curry was able to play like that. Seems like a good dude, and a good player, but we made him look like a HOF’er out there
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 6, 2011 1:25 AM CST up reply actions
what are you talking about.
22pts 13ast 59%fg 3to last time they played. Bulls won by 30.
"I'm going to enjoy an apple in bed." - Derrick Rose
Lets be honest though a few times Rose was getting raped.
The officials really ‘’let them play’’ tonight.
Agreed -- I thought it was a pretty physical game and that helped the Warriors D
Also seemed lack the Bulls didn’t board like they usually do, although maybe I’m wrong…I haven’t seen the boxscore
by hitlesswonder on Feb 6, 2011 12:36 AM CST up reply actions
No I agree they didn't dominate the boards and gave up some second opportunities.
But they were almost even there. 17 turnover for the Bulls to a team like GS that can beat anyone if you keep giving the ball back to them. Rose was 6-15. Oh well.
I think what was really disappointing was that the Bulls couldn't figure out how to combat GS until 3:41 left
and a 13 point lead.
I was pretty disapponted at how the Bulls handled the trapping of Rose
It looked like no one on the floor knew what to do…very little movement to give Rose a good lane to pass. Even when he did get a pass off the Bulls were slow and didn’t get an open look.
I have confidence the Thibs will work on this and put something in to handle the trapping, but he is hamstrung in that the other team can double off the Bulls SG with impunity when Bogans or Brewer is out there. And even the Bull’s bigs didn’t move to space the floor and open up lanes. Just bad basketball.
It’s a great defense to run at the Bulls. Sure we’ll see it more,
by hitlesswonder on Feb 6, 2011 12:43 AM CST up reply actions
Totally agree. I mean where are the Bulls weak? SG and backup PG. They lack ball handlers.
That was a great plan by the coach from GS. If Bogans and Watson are your next best ball handler’s you might have some issues. Thats why I still say fuck it don’t make a trade unless JJ gets you something. You can sign a SG and draft a young PG.
I just don’t trust Boozer defensively to be able to trade a guy like Taj or Asik.
I have a question for all you ballhandling people
Who are all the ballhandlers on the Celtics? I mean, they have Rondo, and no one else really. They seem to be doing ok. We’re not losing games because of a lack of ballhandlers
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 6, 2011 12:55 AM CST up reply actions
Ray Allen is a terrific ball handler.
"The advanced metrics guys do not like Derrick Rose very much." - Bills Simmons podcast 2/4
by RogersPark Kris on Feb 6, 2011 12:58 AM CST up reply actions
Absolutely.
Allen has sick handles. You rarely see it because his offensive game is primarily mid range, but when he wants to he can dribble penetrate as well.
"The advanced metrics guys do not like Derrick Rose very much." - Bills Simmons podcast 2/4
by RogersPark Kris on Feb 6, 2011 1:15 AM CST up reply actions
better answer is
ray allen if left wide open is knocking his shot down.
garnett left wide open is knocking his shot down
paul pierce left wide open is knocking his shot down
why the hell would you ever on earth double rondo to get the ball out of his hands…a teams defense should be to keep the ball in rondos hands and away from the painted area…..
I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!
by piccolomair on Feb 6, 2011 1:18 AM CST up reply actions 6 recs
I remember once i saw a team doubling Rondo
then i was thinking “are the fucking retarded?”
Whats worse?
End of the world?
or watching Bogans and Cj play?
Bigs screen at mid court blows up traps
Celts bigs screen all the way up court as needed when the guard is bringing the ball up…so you can’t trap them in mid court…Bulls miss Noah to help with that…
It's not the ballhandling that's most important...on the Celtics you can't double Rondo off of Allen or Pierce
You would get killed by those two scoring when they were left free.
Moreover, Pierce and Allen are actually both better ball-handlers than anyone outside Rose and Watson on the Bulls. Pierce played point with Rondo out and did fine. It doesn’t hurt that he gets a foul called when someone plays up on him at the perimeter.
by hitlesswonder on Feb 6, 2011 1:04 AM CST up reply actions
The Celtics are an average offensive team (12th in the leaguein ORtg) and have one of the worst team turnover rates in the league (4th worst)
We shouldn’t really be modeling our offense after them.
Pat Riley is the devil.
by Poloplaya14 on Feb 6, 2011 1:12 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Most of their turnovers come from Rondo and their bigs
Allen and Pierce both have TOV% ~10%
Pierce and Allen can both bring the ball up the court and run an offensive set
They iso Pierce a lot.
They also have a better backup PG in Nate Robinson.
Just when you thought things couldn't get worse, it appears we got our asses kicked in front of Rick James, himself:
SpearsNBAYahoo Marc J. Spears
Dave Chappelle quietly in Oracle to watch Warriors-Bulls
thank god nobody noticed
I want him to do comedy again, I don’t care if he’s actually doing it as long as he writes stuff. :/
CDR and Courtney Lee: just two players the Bulls could have at SG this year.
RIP Keith Bogans Prophecy [12-1]
Him completely disappearing like that was really bizarre
Guy was on top of the world
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 6, 2011 2:15 PM CST up reply actions
He just hated getting recognized
CDR and Courtney Lee: just two players the Bulls could have at SG this year.
RIP Keith Bogans Prophecy [12-1]
From waht I heard
people would come up to him when he was, like, with his family and start yelling, really loud, “What do the five fingers say to the face?!?!?!!!!!”. … And it got a bit old.
CDR and Courtney Lee: just two players the Bulls could have at SG this year.
RIP Keith Bogans Prophecy [12-1]
I heard it was religion
he said he didn’t want people to associate religion with him, since he was associated (still is) with such vulgar comedy.
I read he just thought he was enforcing stereotypes
like he created the show to break them and get a couple laughs, and by the end of season 2 it was like, “white people are like this, black people are like this, asians are like this, wakka wakka wakka.”
A true friend stabs you in the front - Oscar Wilde
lol, Stacey on Twitter is a dream come true:
Sky21King Stacey King
Bulls take 1 on the chin. Its like being in a bad dream and u wake up and " Ask wtf just happened" on 2 the next one.
Ok that game was fucked after Brewer missed that easy dunk on the break.
Goodnight the Warriors came out and played. They ain’t winning no rings though. Not this century.
Yeah, Brewer fucked that up big time
That dude does a lot of goofy shit like that, doesn’t he?
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 6, 2011 12:57 AM CST up reply actions
Is he still getting over injury?
It seems like he still isn’t 100%….like he’s not sure what his body is going to do when he takes off around the rim….
he missed the dunk
had nothing to do with injury
Whats worse?
End of the world?
or watching Bogans and Cj play?
yea a better indication that hes healthy was before that missed dunk
he tried to dunk it twice. standing. IN TRAFFIC….think he got a little excited with running with no traffic….and botched it…
I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!
also, even before that: bogans botched 3 on 1 layup, rose's early unforced turnovers...
Ok that game was f***ed after Brewer missed that easy dunk on the break.
this bulls team still needs a killer instinct, up twelve (woulda been 20 had they made the plays in the first half) and the warriors got it together and competed just when it was looking like they weren’t able. that wouldn’t have happened as easily down 20+.
also, refs seemed to have placed wagers at halftime…
The name of the team is ARIZONA DIAMONDBACKS - "I tried to convince them that what they were doing was an aberration, an imbecility, a stupidity without name"
been hoping Brewer could return to high flying Jazz days
wonder why Brewer doesn’t seem to be able to attack the rim as of yore, so figure he’s still not fully recovered…….or maybe he’s not coming all the way back…
Ugly loss
sloppy ballhandling
Brewer missed 2 dunks, GS three ball was on
Does it seem that Boozer rarely gets the call?
A lot of standing around. I could not believe how Brew and Deng would not move to the top of the key when Rose was trapped on one side, forcing the bail out pass to travel longer distances.
"I love you, mommy!" - Joakim Noah
Seems to me Boozer definitely gets his fair share of calls
On a related note, the Bulls definitely should’ve gone to him more.
Pat Riley is the devil.
they tried i thought
He had 4 TO himself
"I love you, mommy!" - Joakim Noah
But he wasn't getting the ball in the post during those bad runs.
If they just started every possession by passing to him in the post, there’d be very few double teams on Rose. Rose could then could be slashing around most of the game looking for the feed to get to the rim. And, they could’ve planted either Kurt or Korver near the top of they key to knock down jumpers in case Boozer got double teamed. I would’ve run this the entire 2nd half.
huh GS only 6-18
it only seemed like they were on fire
"I love you, mommy!" - Joakim Noah
Hey Juicebox
Westbrook, 33 and 10. Please don’t harm yourself. hehe…….
"I love you, mommy!" - Joakim Noah
Oh, I'm well aware
I think that’s contributing to this postgame depression
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 6, 2011 1:42 AM CST up reply actions
Wonder what Westbrook
would do with a triple team all night. Oh wait, he’ll never face one. Hmm..Wonder why.
Hey Rose. I don't see the appeal!
When Rose finally took a look at the box score in a frustrated Bulls’ post-game locker room, he crumpled it up and threw it on the floor.
“We were just out of sync,” he said. “The way that they doubled was kind of weird. Where they had three people on one side, making sure that when I come off the pick two people were on me. If I made the little slip pass somebody was sticking Carlos [Boozer] and it was just tough. A tough night, but we’ll get used to it and I know Coach is going to go over it the next time we have shoot around or practice. It was just something we’ve never seen before I guess.”
The Warriors routinely doubled Rose, daring someone else to beat them. The difference was that the doubling looked different to Rose and his teammates and no one else could step up and fill the gap that the star point guard so often maintains for his team.
Rose doesn’t believe his frustration over this game will linger, but it does underscore the fact that the Bulls need him to play at a very high level every night to win. When he doesn’t, games like Saturday’s are possible.
“I just got to get used to it,” Rose said of the new defensive looks. “It was weird. Where I couldn’t get a feel for the game because they didn’t let me. Where I couldn’t split. When I dragged it out they were coming out with me. Every pick and roll they trapped and I guess that’s what I got to get used to.”
by cowraiser on Feb 6, 2011 1:35 AM CST reply actions 4 recs
Better this happens in Febuary than the playoffs
Time to come up with an effective counter to what GS was doing.
(Like get a new SG)
Understatement.
I know Coach is going to go over it the next time we have shoot around or practice.
Until we get a tagline, yfbb=your friendly Bogans blogger.
yeah
wasn’t a double, it was a triple/quadruple team and soft zone.
Was really effective. Hopefully we learn how to beat it now, before the playoffs start …
CDR and Courtney Lee: just two players the Bulls could have at SG this year.
RIP Keith Bogans Prophecy [12-1]
My wife and I were at the game tonight (2 red shirts about 8rows behind the bulls bench)
Chicago native living in silicon valley. Bleed bulls red. Long time blogabull follower, recent poster.
Everyone looked out of sorts tonight on the bulls. Even though Luol got his numbers quietly and Booz got it going and hit his average everyone else seemed a bit slow and out of rhythm tonight.
Massive energy shifts in the warriors when the crowd gets going. Especially when CJ came in and stunk it up, and when Brewer whiffed the dunk.
After Ellis got snubbed for an allstar bid I predicted him going for 40 in one of the next couple games. I was almost right tonight.
If you're scared, buy a dog!!
i smell career high 50 points next game from derrick
The ultimate fan experience is no longer courtside seats, it's Keith Bogan's job.
Not gonna happen.
I’ve come to terms with the fact that Rose isn’t that type of player. He’s had so many opportunities to feast on shitty players, but he goes out and just does his thing. He’s not about statements, stats, none of that. He has no interest in scoring 50, and I doubt he’ll ever put up that type of stat line. It’s just not his personality to do stuff like that. If it was you’d see him feasting on guys like Boykins, Aaron Brooks, etc, etc. He doesn’t call his own number on offense. Any time he runs a 1-3 PnR with Lu, he has as big of a mis-match as Deng does, yet he feeds Lu every time; there’s not a SF, besides for maybe Lebron, that can stick with Rose. Little things like that can tell you loads about a player’s personality.
Furthermore, with regards to the coming All-Star game, I guarantee that Rose goes all humble-bot with his “I’m just happy to be here,” “I’m honored to play with these great players,” “Hopefully I can make it back next year” talk. He really doesn’t give a shit, though sometimes I wish he would. I think having that kind of edge is beneficial. It’s nice to see an even-keeled super-star in this league, but damn near all of the great ones have an edge to ‘em, where they carry themselves like a star much more than Rose does. We’ll see if things change with Rose. That kind of edge would have helped tonight; the team needed Rose to step up, “say fuck y’all(figuratively), I’m gonna try to win this game myself, cause none of y’all are helping me.” People hate that about Kobe, but that’s part of why he’s so damn great. Sometimes you gotta be the bad guy.
I’m pretty drunk, and still pissed about this game, so I’m not going to re-read what I wrote before I post it. I hope what I posted makes some sense.
You don’t beat that kind of trapping, scrambling defense with dribbling around.
You beat it with PASSING. Ball movement and man movement. What the Bulls did should be used by basketball coaches to show what NOT to do against a pressure defense.
Other players did not come to help Derrick when he dribbled himself into trouble. Derrick in turn generally tried to dribble out of the trap before attempting to pass, thus getting himself in even more trouble. They didn’t step towards the ball to prevent passes being deflected or intercepted. Almost every time Boozer got the ball in the post it seemed like he pounded it for 10 seconds before making any kind of move. When he did move decisively, he was generally successfull, but he didn’t do it enough.
I am just glad this was only one game, because they aren’t going to beat too many teams if they play like that.
News flash: Luol Deng is good...We now return you to your regularly scheduled hating...
by kingles on Feb 6, 2011 5:19 AM CST reply actions 4 recs
I agree, and...
as good as Thibs is with defense, he’s got a long way to go before he becomes a good offensive coach.
by badnewsintennisshoes on Feb 6, 2011 8:10 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
No one is mentioning the Bulls shitty defense last night though...
The team gave up over 100 points….and no one was stopping the penetration by their speedy guards.
Until we get a tagline, yfbb=your friendly Bogans blogger.
Actually, if you look at the updated post...
… I noticed this too. This was one of their poorer efforts this year defensively.
BullsTwo > Back up and running!
The number of fast break points GS scored was ridiculous.
It seemed like every time the Bulls turned it over it was an automatic 2(or more) points. Their rotations in the halfcourt were slow, which is obviously not good, especially against somebody like Ellis who IS frequently going to beat his man and attack the basket. However it was the Bulls inability to exploit their pressure defense, and the subsequent transition points they gave up that really doomed them.
News flash: Luol Deng is good...We now return you to your regularly scheduled hating...
yes, but...
we know the defense is good. It’s the offense that continues to be a concern. Noah’s return will help a lot, though.
by badnewsintennisshoes on Feb 6, 2011 12:34 PM CST up reply actions
It was the shitty offense that led to the shitty defense.
Kind of hard to defend fast breaks every other possession.
Yep. It's almost like this team could use another guard or something.
BullsTwo > Back up and running!
Crappy loss...all those DRose turnovers really sucked and Watson played like an ass out there..
February might suck a little and that wouldn’t surprise me. This team is very good, but the road has not been all that kind to them. I’d be very happy with wins in 2 out of the next 3…but I’d live with 1. Of course, a shocking 3 out of 3 would be nice…
How great is the Warriors crowd by the way? Seemed in it the entire game. Jealous!
Monday @ Portland won't be a wakewalk either.
But a win there would quickly erase the memories of this shitfest.
"The advanced metrics guys do not like Derrick Rose very much." - Bills Simmons podcast 2/4
He certainly wasn't last night.
A bad game does not a bad player make. And I will say that I think CJ is quite replaceable for 10 mpg by lots of guys. At the price he’s paid, he’s a bit overpaid because we’re clearly not going to play him much with Derrick and would be better off allocating that money elsewhere. But that being said, it adds one more bit of complexity to doing any deal to trade him. Because he’s the only guy who can remotely do the backup PG job, we’d definitely need one back if we traded him.
BullsTwo > Back up and running!
A four series stretch sealed it, and it was all CJ
Two air balls (terrible shot choices, rushed the offense and never considered a pass) followed by a 24 seconed violation spearheaded by CJ, and on the trip back down, an and 1 on Ellis after some terrible CJ defense. I’m not calling for his head like some- I just dont understand why he doesnt understand the offense
James Johnson Mancrush.
Because our "offense," as thibs says himself,
Is give Derrick Rose the ball and let him create for his team. CJ cant do that.
CJ does the oppostite of what he should do
Even on his makes, we all yell “no!” when he shoots it.
He shoots when he should swing the ball, he pump fakes when he is wide open, he leads Curry to his strong hand for an easy drive. etc….
"I love you, mommy!" - Joakim Noah
CJ is still fine
People are making too much out of his bad game. He’s played great for a while now. People always get on me for flipping out when Rose has one bad game, yet everyone just piles on CJ the moment he has a bad game. He’ll be ok. Is it really necessary to make a trade for 8 minutes a game that he plays (and he’ll probably play less in the playoffs)
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 6, 2011 12:22 PM CST up reply actions
Also, why is everyone givinr CJ shit, what about Brewer?
That guy really can’t be trusted on offense or defense. If I’m Garpax, that’s where I’m looking to make something happpen. We need more consistency in that spot. We have absolutely nothing there.
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 6, 2011 12:49 PM CST up reply actions
Brewer is a matchup guy, and not a true starter.
Which is I suppose why he isn’t starting (though it doesn’t explain why Bogans is). Having said that, he’s a much better player than CJ, and specifically, he’s much better at his ROLE than CJ. CJ is a SG in a PG’s body. A better form of Pargo. They could really use a backup PG, who can also play effectively next to Derrick. A true combo guard. CJ was a better fit with GS than he is with us.
Having said that, neither CJ or Brewer lost the game for us (though they certainly didn’t help). This one was definately a TEAM (poor)effort.
News flash: Luol Deng is good...We now return you to your regularly scheduled hating...
I disagree
CJ’s been fine. His defense has been good. He has good control of the offense. He played terrible last night, but it’s not like he was the only one. Rose basically had the worst night of his career, which should tell you something about the backcourt defense they were employing
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 6, 2011 1:48 PM CST up reply actions
they weren't exactly triple teaming CJ...
CJ has been fine on defense (until last nigh) but he has been fairly disastrous on offense with his only redeeming trait an occasional 3. But more importantly, I think he is a low IQ player. He hasn’t figured out how to get offense in the flow of what we are doing and he hasn’t figured out how to play with Rose. I expected him to be able to do both when we signed him. He has been a disappointment.
by Basketball Smurf on Feb 6, 2011 1:51 PM CST up reply actions
He hits shots at a pretty good rate
Plays really good defense imo. Doesn’t really turn the ball ov. And has shown the ability to get off when needed (the Denver game). For a guy that barely gets any playing time, I’m not exactly sure what you’re looking for. You think there’s a bunch pf good players that want to take on his role? Until Thibodeau shows that he wants to use his backup pg more often, it’s stupid that we’re even complaining about this.
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 6, 2011 2:11 PM CST up reply actions
he is a 36% shooter on the year. He has got off exactly 1 time
Maybe he would get more playing time if he wasn’t stinking it up on offense. whatever. thanks for letting us know what we can complain about. I’m sure you are working on your 25th post about Rose as we speak.
by Basketball Smurf on Feb 6, 2011 2:16 PM CST up reply actions
Dude, what is up your ass?
You get a little too worked up when people disagree with you I’m not telling anyone what they can or can’t talk about. It’s my OPINION that it’s a lame topic. You can continue to complain about it if you wish.
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 6, 2011 2:23 PM CST up reply actions
One more thing
I’m really not even disagreeing with you. I know we can do better than CJ, but I just don’t think it’s as much of an issue as it’s being made out to be, for a couple reasons:
1) CJ barely plays and
2) We’re unlikely to get a better replacement through trade
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 6, 2011 2:31 PM CST up reply actions
i mean really
we’ve been talking all year about how we need a guard to step up take and pressure off Rose but we aren’t suppose to talk about the guy who could be one of the guys who does it, but is too busy sucking it up. Unreal. He is the worst back up point guard of any top team – Celtics, Heat, Orlando, Lakers, Spurs, Thunder, Mavs, Knicks. They signed him to do more, he just hasn’t shown that he is capable of more.
by Basketball Smurf on Feb 6, 2011 2:20 PM CST up reply actions
Ok, but CJ isn't playing nearly enough
I don’t play basketball at that level, but I’d imagine it would be pretty tough to play well when your playing time is so erratic.
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 6, 2011 2:28 PM CST up reply actions
JBJ, CJ Watson fucking sucks.
And it’s indisputable. I went through all the backup PG’s in the league in another thread and there were just 2 or 3 guys that I would consider having CJ over. He’s a horseshit NBA player.
by dakoose on Feb 6, 2011 2:29 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
I think he's passable
and I think people continue to overlook his defense when doing those comparisons. Sure, Eric Maynor is a better backup pg, but I think Watson is a way better defender. And in Thibs’ system, there is tremendous value to that. Also, the fact that he barely plays, yet doesn’t complain at all, is a great trait for this team. A lot of the “better” point guards you’re referring to would not be happy playing so little.
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 6, 2011 2:33 PM CST up reply actions
All he does when he comes
in is dribble around until he gets off his own shot, despite the fact that he can’t drive or shoot at even a decent level.
Also, in a pre-game interview with Swirsky, he spoke about how he didn’t know that it’d be like “this” as a Bull. The “this” was playing very little ball.
Right after he said that
said that he doesn’t mind at all, and that he’d rather play little on a winning team, than play more on a losing team.
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 6, 2011 2:45 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah,
but if you’re gonna get upset about Lu dropping a small one liner, I don’t think its fair to ignore a snippet like that from Watson.
FTR, I don’t think either player said anything controversial.
Anyway, none of that is the point. What is the point is that CJ is terrible. JJ would be a better option at the point.
Disagree completely on Brewer
The guy is an extremely smart player. Even moreso on offense than defense. You’re not gonna find a better “energy guy” off the bench, and I use that term loosely because Brewer brings a lot more than energy to the table.
Pat Riley is the devil.
by Poloplaya14 on Feb 6, 2011 3:18 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, but the problem is, our whole guard rotation (other than Derrick)
are “bench guys”, we need to solidify these positions. And since Korver and Brewer are both better served coming off the bench, I think Korver is way more important to this team going forward. Therefore Ronnie has to be the one to go
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 6, 2011 3:56 PM CST up reply actions
I didn't necessarily say we couldn't
but if we find someone better, and we still want Korver to see time, there’s really not gonna be minutes left for him. So he might still be here, but he’s still been “replaced”
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 6, 2011 4:01 PM CST up reply actions
Pot meet kettle
People are making too much out of his bad game.
When has CJ played great?
by Basketball Smurf on Feb 6, 2011 1:42 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, I admitted that mysef in the comment
And I haven’t flipped out about Rose in a while
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 6, 2011 1:47 PM CST up reply actions
Also, "great" might be pushing it a little
but he’s more than fine. TO start dwelling on that right now would be stupid. They’re not gonna find a better player than him through trade without giving up an asset that they’re better off keeping. Management needs to focus on the shooting guard, and everything else will work itself out
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 6, 2011 1:51 PM CST up reply actions
One other thing
It’s pretty inexcusable that Derrick only got to the line 2 times last night. When a team is playing you that tight, and double teaming you like that, they’re opening themselves up for all kinds of fouls. D Wade or Lebron would’ve had 15 free throws last night. And that’s what shows me Derrick isn’t quite there yet. He still can’t get to the line at all when he wants or needs to.
And damn, I can’t believe this loss is still pissing me off the next day. Really sucks that we have to wait til next year to get payback on Ellis and Curry.
well
the refs also just weren’t calling contact
CDR and Courtney Lee: just two players the Bulls could have at SG this year.
RIP Keith Bogans Prophecy [12-1]
That's a good point
That was a very poorly officiated game
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 6, 2011 2:35 PM CST up reply actions
they were on the bulls
The name of the team is ARIZONA DIAMONDBACKS - "I tried to convince them that what they were doing was an aberration, an imbecility, a stupidity without name"
I submit to the discussion the following trade proposal
CJ Watson + a 2nd round pick + 3 million in cash to Cleveland for Daniel Gibson
Gibson is pretty much an clear upgrade over Watson in every respect. He’s a lights-out shooter who can help fill the Bulls need for more ballhandling. The Cavs are motivates to make this trade because it saves them $5 million over the next 2 years.
Pat Riley is the devil.
by Poloplaya14 on Feb 6, 2011 12:49 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
while CJ has been very disappointing...
I’m not a fan of Gibson.
On the other hand, the Bulls would then have a backcourt tandem of “Boobie and Pooh”, which could lead to an excellent cartoon series.
by badnewsintennisshoes on Feb 6, 2011 1:19 PM CST up reply actions
Gibson is probably better.. but is handles as a pg are not good enough..
"Maybe Paxson influenced has been a bit silenced :-) , although his carnage of the development of the team still persist"
Why would Clevealnd do that?
They like Gibson over there. And while it might save them a little money, it’s not nearly enough to downgrade like that. They might as well just give him away to a team with an expiring
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 6, 2011 1:44 PM CST up reply actions
$5 million is not an insignifcant amount of money
Cleveland won’t be competing for a while and long-term, Gibson’s pretty replaceable. I don’t see why they wouldn’t take the opportunity to put some more money in the bank account. The only negative I could see would be fan backlash, but I think Cleveland will still ultimately be enticed unless Gilbert’s still in “WE HAZ TO WIN B4 LEBRON” mode.
Pat Riley is the devil.
I know 5 mil isn't insignificant, but I'm saying they can easily find more savings
Someone else would gladly take Gibson off their hands, without having to take a player like CJ back.
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 6, 2011 3:58 PM CST up reply actions
CJ is a rhythm shooter playing 4 or 5 minutes at a time. You put him in a situation where
he gets more minutes more consistently and you will see him move closer to what he was doing last year and what he did during the Denver game.
Honestly, I think he makes the Cavs a better team.
how about
CJ, JJ, Scal, $3mil and a 2nd rounder for Gibson and Parker. They can use part of the $3 mil to buy out Scal, get a young player in JJ and get CJ Watson’s cheaper, shorter contract.
by Basketball Smurf on Feb 6, 2011 1:55 PM CST up reply actions
One prob with Gibson's contract is it's 50% guaranteed for the last year. CJ's is 0% guaranteed
And the Bulls have seemed to make it very clear they don’t want to take on money when they expect to extend Rose.
They might for a really stellar upgrade, but I don’t think this is enough of an upgrade to make them pull the trigger. :|
BullsTwo > Back up and running!
Are those expiring contracts to be used in a trade or to
avoid the luxury tax in a couple of years?
by Basketball Smurf on Feb 6, 2011 2:22 PM CST up reply actions
post messed up
Did we forget Bogans plays on this team? Ship his ass out too
Gibson?
Have u seen him play, he will shoot u out of the game!
If it is by somebody's leg, don't dive for the ball, it's too close
LOL
Sky21King Stacey King
Shout out 2 Jeff van Gundy for busting Marc Jackson 4 using my 2 big lines..lmao funny thing he used it on the Bulls/Memphis gm on ESPN?
Did anyone here this? I’ve heard Jackson steal his lines before, but that’s funny as hell that Van Gundy called him out
He can only say “Mama, there goes that man!” so many times.
News flash: Luol Deng is good...We now return you to your regularly scheduled hating...
lol
Just when I thought I couldn’t like Mark Jackson any less…
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 6, 2011 2:36 PM CST up reply actions
The real reason for the loss?
GS cheerleaders are way hotter than the LuvaBulls.
Also, JBJ wasn’t scared enough before the game. :-P
West Coast Assassination Missions:
Clippers: Mission Accomplished
Warriors:
Trail Blazers:
Jazz:
Hornets:
by Dr. Handsome, D.D.S. on Feb 6, 2011 3:03 PM CST reply actions
That's it, I'm not letting you talk me down before these games anymore
I will be deathly afraid the rest of the way
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 6, 2011 4:02 PM CST up reply actions
i don't know
I guess the question going forward is how much of the poor performance was caused by an off night vs. how much was caused by a good strategy from Warriors coach Keith Smart (by the way, can we assume he didn’t learn that from Don Nelson?).
was k. smart there in 2007 when they trapped dirk and the mavs?
(answer: yes)
The name of the team is ARIZONA DIAMONDBACKS - "I tried to convince them that what they were doing was an aberration, an imbecility, a stupidity without name"
Great, a Bulls loss, and a lousy Rose game
followed by Rondo tearing it up on National TV against the Magic. Someone please make the pain stop!
Rose is an All-Star starter...
and Rondo is not.
Until we get a tagline, yfbb=your friendly Bogans blogger.
Nvm, now I just realized I'm about to watch the Packers in the Super Bowl
Worst. Day. Ever.
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 6, 2011 4:37 PM CST up reply actions
It's like trying to chose the lesser of two evils.
Buuuuuuutttttttttt, I ain’t gonna watch. What’s in it for us anyway!?! People watch it more for the commercials and just to say afterwards that they watched it. It’s a waste of time sometimes. The commercials are what makes the SB. The media hypes it up like 2 months before and we get to find out what Ben the Rapist had for breakfast every day. Just my 2.1 cents.
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