I'd put [Westbrook] between Williams and Rose [all three behind CP3] ... he's harder on the eyes than Rose but at the moment he's the more effective player.
Hollinger in his chat today
over 1 year ago
Illini15
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Just thought I'd post it, is there something wrong?
Deng/Boozer/Noah: All your rebound are belong to us.
I'm not mad that that is his opinion, I'm mad that he presents his opinion as fact
I believe in The Bogans Prophecy.
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 3, 2011 2:15 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
and the condescension
is just unreal. this guy (and other bloggers) act as though because they write a blog they are more qualified than other NBA GMs (and treat fans who disagree with their views like 2nd graders).
Dwyer, who I normally like, had a hilarious article last week on Yahoo Sports, essentially implying that because he “does this for a living” he knows just as well, if not better than NBA GMs, why Kobe would not be clutch (the example that was used).
What ego.
"4 inches, baby!" --ripped off from Kush
1/27/11 - The day the nerdosphere and their stats jumped the shark, trying to use them to disprove the obvious.
Dwyer
Pulls out a “i do this for a living” column about 12 times a year.
I think Dwyer is actually one the worst of the whole,
younger, somewhat aesthetic school of sports writing
I saw T2 at Walgreens in Deerfield he’s tall. if you’re wondering what his grocery list included: magnums, french vanilla ice cream and a 20 oz sprite
by Super-Structure on Feb 4, 2011 12:40 AM CST up reply actions
I think it's clearly stated as his opinion
And it’s a chat, so it’s implied?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 3, 2011 3:03 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I know it's his opinion. I said in that comment that I know it's his opinion
I didn’t say he was being deceptive. My problem was that he makes his opinions sound as though they are factual. I guess I could have just as easily said “He’s really cocky.”, or “Really smug”, but I thought the other way sounded better.
I believe in The Bogans Prophecy.
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 3, 2011 3:56 PM CST up reply actions
Why do you like Hollinger?
His support is not welcomed here!
Of note,
Westbrook’s PER is 23.85, while Rose’s is 23.27. I wonder what Hollinger would say if Rose’s PER was slightly higher than Westbrook’s?
Deng/Boozer/Noah: All your rebound are belong to us.
Yeah, that is the bizarre part to me.
I saw T2 at Walgreens in Deerfield he’s tall. if you’re wondering what his grocery list included: magnums, french vanilla ice cream and a 20 oz sprite
by Super-Structure on Feb 3, 2011 2:02 PM CST up reply actions
I'm guessing he gives the non-PER defense to Westbrook, thus the slight edge
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 3, 2011 3:04 PM CST up reply actions
Hollinger's people got to you, didn't they
why can't Neil pick on Bogans for once?
by Rose Colored Goggles on Feb 3, 2011 3:08 PM CST up reply actions
you say that as if it just happened
we’ve been bros for years
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"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 3, 2011 3:09 PM CST up reply actions
SLEEPER CELL!
why can't Neil pick on Bogans for once?
by Rose Colored Goggles on Feb 3, 2011 3:14 PM CST up reply actions
I figured that was the case.
But I am not even sure if Westbrook is a great defender, or just plays the lanes as is the Thunder’s strategy. This isn’t to denigrate Westbrook, because lets face it, he is amazing.
I saw T2 at Walgreens in Deerfield he’s tall. if you’re wondering what his grocery list included: magnums, french vanilla ice cream and a 20 oz sprite
by Super-Structure on Feb 4, 2011 12:39 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
And if he is parsing things in such an delicate way,
why put Williams ahead of Westbrook? Because of history? In that case, why justify Westbrook being better on the grounds of being better than Rose this year.
I saw T2 at Walgreens in Deerfield he’s tall. if you’re wondering what his grocery list included: magnums, french vanilla ice cream and a 20 oz sprite
by Super-Structure on Feb 4, 2011 12:47 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
One problem with PER in Rose's case
Rose drives the lane, draws the big, maybe even two additional defenders, puts up a difficult spinning reverse lay up. Ofthen they go in and we ooh and aah. Often they bounce off the rim and our bigs are standing there free for an easy put back. That is very effective offense, created by Rose, and because he draws help, the play is probable to result in 2 points or an and-1, but its almost irrelevant if the initial lay up goes in. When it doesn’t, its still an effective play, still helps the team win, but makes Rose look “inefficient” and thus less “effective” in Hollinger’s estimation, because he isn’t watching the game.
In short, PER undervalues Rose.
And for the record, I think Westbrook is awesome and like Hollinger's analysis
but I can’t see how you’d want that guy over Rose, especially as the #1 option on a contending team.
Deng/Boozer/Noah: All your rebound are belong to us.
Okay, so he doesn't like Rose, because Rose isn't efficient.
Yadda yadda yadda. His shtick is old, it’s limited, we know it’s old and limited, he ranks the 22 year old MVP front-runner as the 4th best point guard in the league, click click click, wow that’s controversial click click click, don’t look at context/records/bulk numbers click click click.
Think I’ll head right over to ESPN and read this chat! Or not.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
What's funny is that Rose has a higher PER than Williams
I’m not posting this to bitch or anything, it just seems to me that statheads are actually underrating Rose in their efforts to explain that he’s overrated to the masses. Irony.
Deng/Boozer/Noah: All your rebound are belong to us.
Doesn't that confirm that Hollinger doesn't just blindly accept PER as gospel, though?
When the guy picks Westbrook over Rose, you say it’s just because he has a higher PER. When he picks Williams over Rose, you say it’s hypocritical because he has a lower PER.
Pat Riley is the devil.
For the Rondo haters:
Hollinger sez:
Rondo is amazing to watch … but he can’t score, and we can’t pretend that doesn’t matter. Think of it this way: Even with all the other weapons Boston isn’t exactly a dominant offensive team.
Nice
Deng/Boozer/Noah: All your rebound are belong to us.
I was just gonna post that too
As much as the other stuff got me mad, I have to admit that him totally dismissing Rondo as part of the discussion warmed my soul
I believe in The Bogans Prophecy.
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 3, 2011 2:13 PM CST up reply actions
The emperor could turn us all to the dark side in a minute
I can feel your hatred, fuck Rondo
Their efficiency is so close by his metric,
its a bit odd that he isn’t willing to apply some empirical evidence to his statements. If a player has four seasons at 18 PER and one at 23 and another has five seasons at 22.5 PER, who is better for that one season when the first player has the higher PER? One would think the second player, its not as if that deviation will have an affect on other player’s perception or that players actions.
I saw T2 at Walgreens in Deerfield he’s tall. if you’re wondering what his grocery list included: magnums, french vanilla ice cream and a 20 oz sprite
Okay, now it's getting annoying
John – I know that PER is your baby, but Westbrook can’t be ranked ahead of Rose. His shooting percentages are lower then Rose’s across the board and the assists and rebounds are nearly identical.
John Hollinger (2:51 PM)
“nearly”, but not “exactly.” Westbrook is barely ahead of Rose in PER (half a point, which can change with a really good night or a really bad one), but the difference right now is his superior Rebound Rate.
So he’d take Westbrook ahead of Rose because he has a slightly superior rebound rate? Hahaha. That’s what happens when your big men are Nenad Krstic and Jeff Green instead of Joakim Noah and Carlos Boozer.
Deng/Boozer/Noah: All your rebound are belong to us.
More:
will (chicago)
Who would you want with the ball in the closing seconds of a game, Rose or Paul?
John Hollinger (2:52 PM)
CP. Watch the end of the Memphis game.
::facepalm::
Deng/Boozer/Noah: All your rebound are belong to us.
this one is debateable
Id take rose for a last second shot but to have the ball to create/shoot I can see where the cp3 argument comes in
The ultimate fan experience is no longer courtside seats, it's Keith Bogan's job.
by sin on Feb 3, 2011 2:48 PM CST up reply actions
That's a very valid choice
Paul is great in the clutch. He might not take the shot himself, but if he doesn’t he’ll give it to somebody with great position to make a play.
right...
never mind that Rose has a superior defensive rating, lower turnover rate, blocks more shots, is a vastly superior 3pt shooter, etc.
by badnewsintennisshoes on Feb 3, 2011 2:41 PM CST up reply actions
You know that rebound rate
is the most important aspect of the PG position.
true...
especially when one is attempting to justify a rather tenuous position.
by badnewsintennisshoes on Feb 3, 2011 3:31 PM CST up reply actions
He's not saying that the difference between the players is the rebound rate
He’s saying that the difference in the players’ PER is due to the superior rebound rate, which is simply a fact.
Pat Riley is the devil.
thats not what i got from his comment AT ALL
so either hes a dumbass or hes bad at writing
The ultimate fan experience is no longer courtside seats, it's Keith Bogan's job.
by sin on Feb 3, 2011 5:20 PM CST up reply actions
Wow, half of this chat is about Rose vs. Westbrook. Somewhere JuiceboxJerry is going ape
Ahmad (Chi Town)
If you ask every GM in the league do you seriously think they pick Westbrook over Rose?
John Hollinger (3:08 PM)
If you’re asking “for the future”, all of them take Rose (and so do I). If you’re asking, “to win a game today,” I think you get a much more even split.
Deng/Boozer/Noah: All your rebound are belong to us.
That is so wrong, it's incredible
I believe in The Bogans Prophecy.
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 3, 2011 2:15 PM CST up reply actions
thats just dumb
how many games has westbrook won? the dude plays next to Kevin Freaking Durant
by regui8er on Feb 3, 2011 2:16 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I tried to respond to that, but he ended the chat
my response was something to the effect of:
Player A or Player B? Player A is the second best player on his very good basketball team. Player B is clearly the best player on his very good basketball team, which has a better record than Player A’s. John Hollinger just said about half the GMs in the NBA would take Player A today.
Follow-up question: whose intelligence does the previous statement insult more: the GMs of the NBA or John Hollinger?
why can't Neil pick on Bogans for once?
by Rose Colored Goggles on Feb 3, 2011 2:18 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't think Rose is "clearly" the best player.
Rose is becoming great, no doubt. I think there are plenty of reasons to debate the Boozer or Noah are as good as Rose in producing wins for the team, if that’s what we’re using as our metric, that is.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
I think that's a tough argument to make when those guys have missed so much time
What are the reasons that you think Boozer or Noah contribute more to the team winning?
Rose is more important to the team because he's the only player who can reliable initiate offense
He’s also the main common factor of the team since Boozer and Noah both missed time.
Actually, now that I think about it, I don’t see how you can say Boozer is as good as Rose with his terrible defense.
no
actually whats wrong is the conclusion…
he says rose is the better player for the future….
he says that right now its an even split
so you have a tie now, but one guy is clearly going to be better in the future…
in other words im giving you an option over two items
both are about the same worth, however one will be worth more later on
the two items are very similar in almost all respects
which one is the better item
of course the answer should be the one that will be worth more, cuz even though you dont know how much more it will be worth, the fact that you know it will be greater than the other item in the future makes it by far the best investment and the more valuable item overall considering they are both in similar worth now
So hollinger, according to your premise…rose is the better player..
I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!
by piccolomair on Feb 3, 2011 2:47 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Seeing as mine was the first Rose question he answered
I’m taking credit for that Rose-a-thon chat. You’re welcome!
why can't Neil pick on Bogans for once?
by Rose Colored Goggles on Feb 3, 2011 2:16 PM CST reply actions
Rose is becoming the most polarizing figure in all of the NBA blogosphere. Never thought I'd see that happen.
Seriously, can’t we just appreciate this guy for who/what he is?
Deng/Boozer/Noah: All your rebound are belong to us.
i actually think that it is brilliant
Rose’s success is exposing the stats-worshipping, eye-test denying half of the blogosphere, aka the nerdosphere, for the sham that it has always been. clowns like hollinger are looking delusional and in denial, something that many people have known for years but is only now becoming blatantly evident.
"4 inches, baby!" --ripped off from Kush
1/27/11 - The day the nerdosphere and their stats jumped the shark, trying to use them to disprove the obvious.
by anorexorcist on Feb 3, 2011 2:20 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
I would love Russillo to get these guys all on one podcast
And absolutely wear them out for not actually watching basketball games. I think Russillo provides a great balance of using both advanced stats and time spent watching basketball to analyze players and teams.
by bryield on Feb 3, 2011 2:24 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
yeah
Rusillo is great, and the Basketball Jones dudes are great too (at first they seem like nothing more than funny guys but their commentary is so brilliant in breaking down things for the average viewer, because they actually watched the game and hardly, if ever focus on advanced stats – i’ve been watching for over 4 years now).
I think our very own Matt also does a good job of balancing emphasis on numbers with emphasis on game observations, especially because he goes to a ton of these games (though I can see sometimes he would love nothing more than to bust out into his inner stat nerd :D).
other than that, i dont care at all for any of these bloggers. it’s starting to turn into an elitist little clique, to be honest.
"4 inches, baby!" --ripped off from Kush
1/27/11 - The day the nerdosphere and their stats jumped the shark, trying to use them to disprove the obvious.
do you honestly think Hollinger doesn't watch games?
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 3, 2011 3:11 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
I know Hollinger watches games
But I don’t think he watches all of them (and neither do I). However, the difference is that I (nor many folks here) do not use a single convenient statistical metric as an information shortcut to explain all the games I haven’t seen.
that seems like an unfair standard
the nice part about stats is it comes from someone watching the game and writing it down.
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 3, 2011 3:21 PM CST up reply actions
Really?
You think it’s unfair to expect someone who is considered an expert analyst (e.g., sports, politics, economics) to use more than one statistical metric to draw conclusions about something? That seems like a pretty fair standard in most professions.
So how can you say your eye-test of Westbrook is better?
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
What?
Where did I say anything about using an eye test? My point was that using a single statistical metric, similar to how Hollinger relies predominantly on PER, is kind of a lousy way to analyze something, whether it’s basketball or something else. I happen to think statistics are quite useful, at least I hope so considering I teach a course on the subject.
I swear some people around here foam at the mouth at the opportunity to take a jab, which is fine I suppose – but it definitely helps to read first.
"If all-star game has 4 Celtics, 3 Heatles, 2 Hawks, 2 Spurs, 2 Thunder, 2 Lakers, then no doubt Derrick Rose is MVP right now." -- Mike McGraw
i honestly don't know
when he sits there with your fingers in your ears and claim that westbrook is better than rose SOLELY because of a 0.6 offensive rebounding rating difference, i have to seriously question whether he does at all.
"4 inches, baby!" --ripped off from Kush
1/27/11 - The day the nerdosphere and their stats jumped the shark, trying to use them to disprove the obvious.
Exactly
Saying “He doesn’t watch games”, is the lazy way to put it. He obviously watches a lot of basketball. I prefer to say that he’s just overly reliant on numbers at times. This Westbrook-Rose thing being one instance.
I can see that yfbb is sticking up for Hollinger at the moment, which is cool. I should say that I don’t have an issue with Hollinger really. I just think stats in basketball are overused, because there’s so many different factors at play in basketball games. And it really irks me that Hollinger, and people of his ilk, get a lot of pub for certain things they say/write. In this case, it’s about Rose, so it hits a little closer to home.
That being said, I know the guy knows his shit. And I’d much rather read him than most other boobs that just throw together half-assed columns based on stupid shit.
I believe in The Bogans Prophecy.
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 3, 2011 4:10 PM CST up reply actions
ya'ok
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 3, 2011 3:11 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Oh, c'mon!
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
yeah, I think Bulls fans did just as much in distinguishing themselves as batty
and lord knows what ‘questions’ he didn’t post.
He’s absolutely right that whoever cries the ‘eyes’ test with Rose likely isn’t watching Hornets games. I know I don’t!
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"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 3, 2011 3:08 PM CST up reply actions
What if you have watched Hornets games
Yet still feel that Rose has a larger impact on the game?
I guess we all must be blind.
"in this day and age of "let's erect a statue"-isn't it time Jerry Reinsdorf is honored" - The Swirsk
by RogersPark Kris on Feb 3, 2011 3:13 PM CST up reply actions
You're probably a Bulls fan?
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Of course!
Because only us completely biased Bulls fans have called Rose the best point guard in the league right?
"in this day and age of "let's erect a statue"-isn't it time Jerry Reinsdorf is honored" - The Swirsk
by RogersPark Kris on Feb 4, 2011 12:59 PM CST up reply actions
I'm enough of a loser that I've watched a good amount of Hornets games this year
and actually, that is one of the main reasons I find Hollinger to be full of shit on this particular argument
I believe in The Bogans Prophecy.
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 3, 2011 4:13 PM CST up reply actions
Nothing against you Illini15
But I’d love if there was a ban to all Hollinger related posts,
this guy just says dumb shit and its annoying now
Is that John Hollinger or Tobias Funke?
why can't Neil pick on Bogans for once?
by Rose Colored Goggles on Feb 3, 2011 3:37 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Is that really Hollinger?
Man, that face fits perfectly with what I imagined him to look like. Now if he came out and admitted he were a virgin, I’d have had him down pat.
Dude looks like a pedophile
by drew gooden's facial growth on Feb 4, 2011 1:15 AM CST up reply actions
Fuck, you guys are sad, sad people.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
At least Hollinger has moved on from the Brook Lopez is better than Rose stuff.
"Rest satisified with doing well and leave others to talk of you as they please"
It took David Thorpe until about two weeks ago.
why can't Neil pick on Bogans for once?
by Rose Colored Goggles on Feb 3, 2011 3:58 PM CST up reply actions
I just don't get the outrage
So Hollinger thinks Westbrook is better than Rose. Who cares? News flash: Westbrook is also really good at basketball. Saying he thinks Westbrook is better isn’t really a radical claim, and it’s certainly not a deep-cutting indictment of Rose’s ability.
Pat Riley is the devil.
by Poloplaya14 on Feb 3, 2011 3:53 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
And what's wrong with disputing the opinion?
Isn’t that what being a fan is all about? You know, supporting your team?
"in this day and age of "let's erect a statue"-isn't it time Jerry Reinsdorf is honored" - The Swirsk
by RogersPark Kris on Feb 3, 2011 3:56 PM CST up reply actions
There's nothing wrong with that
But acting like it’s completely absurd to say Westbrook>Rose is silly. I don’t always agree with Hollinger, but the man knows his stuff.
Pat Riley is the devil.
Where did I say it was completely absurd?
And like I said above, I like Hollinger’s analysis. He’s a good writer and knows his stuff, but I disagree with him. What’s wrong with that?
Deng/Boozer/Noah: All your rebound are belong to us.
Hell to be honest it
actually is absurd. The fact that Rose and Westbrook are about even in every one of his valued statistical categories is one thing, but the fact that Westbrook plays PG and just so happen to play with the leagues leading scorer actually makes his opinion that Westbrook is better down right unfair and ridiculous.
Hey Rose. I don't see the appeal!
The "Durant helps him out" argument only goes so far
For starters, it’s not like Rose’s supporting cast isn’t also very talented. There’s no Durant on the Bulls, but the Bulls have a far stronger and deeper frontcourt than the Thunder have cobbled together.
There’s no denying that Westbrook is better than Rose at a number of things. Overall, I think the difference between them is probably so marginal that claiming that either is better than the other can’t be that farfetched.
Pat Riley is the devil.
by Poloplaya14 on Feb 4, 2011 1:35 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Agree.
So the Bulls don’t have Durant. They also don’t have Thabo, Jeff Green or Kristic.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Seriously??
The guy plays PG and he gets to pass to the leagues LEADING SCORER. Oh it matters a whole lot. Why? Because Westbrook isn’t getting double and tripled teamed and getting trapped at half court on most possessions when his team needs a bucket. My goodness I watched Boston employ “Jordan Rules” to Rose in their first matchup this season. On that alone Rose is better. Rose having to find Boozer or Deng for a shot as opposed to Westbrook tossing it to the arc to Kevin freaking Durant makes a huge difference.
Also last time I checked, Jeff Green and Harden weren’t terrible options for Westbrook to pass to. Plus Rose has also made Luol’s job so easy on offense that he can take wide open jumpers all game. Westbrook is good but the well being of Oklahoma is not depended on from possession to possession the way the Bulls are for Rose.
Hey Rose. I don't see the appeal!
If Rose was in OKC
he would get as many free throws as fuckin westbrook. Hate the free throw criticism shit that Rose gets against him. (Westbrook is better cause he gets to the line more) BULLSHIT!
The. Bogans. Prophecy.
Ok honest question...
Do you feel that if Westbrook was on this team that the Bulls would be where they are right now? All injuries and setbacks the same? Could Russell Westbrook deal with the pressure, the defenses out to stop him every night, and responsibilities on a nightly basis that Rose has dealt with? No off nights. No deferring to Durant like he did against the Hornets while he was busy stinking up the joint against Paul. No catching his breath while having to match the Kobes and Wades of the world.
Because that’s what Rose fans see every night and why we are so passionate about it when it comes to these comparisons. Does Hollinger watch games? I don’t know. But this isn’t the combine. These guys have to go out and play under different circumstances every night. What happens on that court matters and after watching both players, I see a clear cut difference between the two and Rose just seems better to me. He just is.
Hey Rose. I don't see the appeal!
For the record, I think Rose is better than Westbrook
Just not by all that much. If you swapped the two, I do think the Bulls would be more or less where they are now. Maybe 1-2 fewer wins, but certainly no more than that. Let’s not forget that the biggest reason that the Bulls are where they are now is the fact that they’ve had the no. 1 defense in the league. Swap Rose for Westbrook and that doesn’t change one bit.
Pat Riley is the devil.
No, but people getting so ridiculous over it s sorta wrong.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
It's more offputting that every idiot who tries to denigrate Rose/Noah cites Hollinger or one of his cronies as their reasoning
why can't Neil pick on Bogans for once?
by Rose Colored Goggles on Feb 3, 2011 4:04 PM CST up reply actions
Dude, its an opportunity to hate on someone
Something we at BaB love to do, you know this. The fact that Hollinger doesn’t worship Rose makes it more fun
by regui8er on Feb 3, 2011 4:11 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
I mean, give credit to Westbrook because he is a madman on the boards. But does anyone honestly think he'd be racking rebounds alongside Boozer, Deng and Noah?
It’s nice that he gets such gaudy numbers but it’s also a glaring example of why the Thunder are not real title contenders in the West.
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 3, 2011 4:18 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Hollinger's point is dumb nonetheless.
I mean, we’re talking about a half a rebound per game. Who gives a shit?
It's not so much as per game as the rate. Westbrook grabs a higher percentage of available boards.
When your starting PF is rebounding at the same level as Luol Deng, you kinda need help from other positions.
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 3, 2011 4:46 PM CST up reply actions
Still, the difference in TRB% is
just 1.5. When you add in your point about OKC being bereft of quality rebounders, the difference is a throw away.
by dakoose on Feb 3, 2011 5:05 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
his response
was that westbrook grabs offensive boards, where he claims the bulls rebounding advantage doesnt exist
Doesn’t seem very moral to me. Might as well take Satan’s autograph while you’re at it. - N.C.
by Illini0509 on Feb 3, 2011 8:18 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
He also points to OKC's team rebounding rate being 9th
Which, of course, includes Westbrook himself (and Durant for that matter), and thus doesn’t really refute the fact that Westbrook has a couple of pretty mediocre rebounders for big men.
Westbrook is a very good rebounder, no doubt, but to me it’s similar to the Landry Fields phenomenon. Someone has to get them.
rondo and westbrook are often praised for their rebounds
but thats cause of how bad their fucking team rebounding stats overall are.
its so retarded that you arent looking at the circumstances of how they are getting those stats. something stats cant provide you
The ultimate fan experience is no longer courtside seats, it's Keith Bogan's job.
Exactly
Its similar to my comment above about PER undervaluing Rose because it penalizes him for missed layups where he draws the big and sets up the Bulls big for an easy put back. Its a very effective play but it hurts his numbers and makes him look inefficient, IF you ignore the actual play and its actual result.
This thread needs this.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
by tyger1147 on Feb 4, 2011 9:56 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
I like how you just come in
on the threads after discussions and try to get all self righteous about prior comments. That’s the whole point of this thing is to discuss and argue over dumb stuff. Beats having to worry about the next car payment or riots in Egypt. lol
Hey Rose. I don't see the appeal!
by Dils on Feb 4, 2011 10:59 AM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Yes, we know that's the crux of your presence on this site, no need for a reminder.
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 4, 2011 11:38 AM CST up reply actions 5 recs
What's next?
Souleater shitting on someone for creating photoshops?
by drew gooden's facial growth on Feb 4, 2011 7:12 PM CST up reply actions
This. is. awesome.
"If all-star game has 4 Celtics, 3 Heatles, 2 Hawks, 2 Spurs, 2 Thunder, 2 Lakers, then no doubt Derrick Rose is MVP right now." -- Mike McGraw
The Monday Morning Quarterback of BaB
Rarely around during the heart of conversations, but 12 to 24 hours later we can always count on you to sweep through with witty one-liners that emphasize little to no point at all.
West Coast Assassination Missions:
Clippers: Mission Accomplished
Warriors:
Trail Blazers:
Jazz:
Hornets:
by Dr. Handsome, D.D.S. on Feb 4, 2011 1:18 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
i think it might have been a reaction not to the debate, but more to the fairly nasty shit
some people on this thread have been spewing.
"JJ has never made that floater. He’s probably never even practiced it, he just decided to take a floater, which is why he’s James Johnson."
-JocktrapNoah
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