Why Courtney Lee will be a Bull and other SGs won't
[From the FanPosts. Solid reasoning to me. The Bulls often preach flexibility but they also like their roster (as they should), so combining that, their current tradeable contracts, and a future creeping towards the luxury tax (with a new CBA and Rose extension looming) and they don't have that many options. The question becomes would you deal future draft picks to help this season, and to me the answer is yes. Even that mythically-valuable Charlotte pick, as I'm not forward-thinking enough to worry about Boozer's replacement just yet -ed.]
So first, let's think through some "Why these guys won't happen" scenarios:
Their teams are shooting for the playoffs (or better) and don't want to dump them for less than a market return (which we can't offer and still win the trade ourselves):
* Iggy, Joe Johnson, Jamal Crawford, OJ Mayo. Sorry.
These guys are over the hill, and/or so expensive as to make a trade impractical given their contracts (we'd have to give up too many important pieces to get them):
* Steven Jackson
* Rip Hamilton
* Michael Redd
These guys are probably obtainable, but not at the right cost. And these guys aren't that good:
* Fran Garcia- has three years left on his deal, and I think the Bulls would only take a guy with that sort of deal if they were getting a guy who was a very obvious long-term fit. Garcia is a nice player when healthy, but aging and injury prone.
* JR Smith- Expiring contract, but one that's big enough that we'd have to give up a rotation player to get him, so we'd just be trading one hole for another.
These are the guys I think might be realistic to think about, because they have the following combination of traits:
1. Their contract is short enough that if we don't want them around in a couple years, they'll be off the books.
2. Their contract is small enough that we don't need to trade one of our main rotation players to get them.
3. Their current team is either so far out of it, or so deep at their position that the player in question is not playing very much, and the team would credibly prefer future savings/draft pick/James Johnson to continuing to have that player.
Courtney Lee - I'd give up either Asik or one of our picks+JJ for him. Maybe Asik + our pick if we really don't have any other options and it'll get it done. Rep as a good defender and smart player. Has developed into a good three point shooter. Basically, a better, younger version of Bogans. Might be a long term solution. Would Houston give him up? Well, their whole franchise is Kevin Martin at the moment, so when is Lee ever gonna get anywhere there?
Martell Webster - JJ/Bogans/Scal for Webster. Not even giving up a pick. Why? Because the TWolves are awful it'll knock his $5.2M salary off the books in exchange for JJ's $1.8M. Most noted for being the guy the Blazers basically gave up Deron Williams to get, and for being pretty injury prone. A big guard who's athletic but not super agile. Very good spot up shooter. Think Dennis Scott. Would space the floor something awesome. Downside is he might not defend much better than Korver. Upside is that we get another shooter at a low cost, and quantity has a quality all its own.
Brandon Rush - The Pacers are shooting for the playoffs, so I'm not sure they'd do this, but Rush has fallen entirely outside of the rotation behind Dunleavy, Paul George, and Dahntay Jones. Rush has amazing basketball tools. He's a very good shooter, athletic, and can defend. He'll have a stretch of spectacular play, then he'll utterly disappear. His head is full of rocks and weed smoke. I'd offer JJ to get him, because Rush is a much better fit, and because I think the rest of this team has little chance of being poorly influenced by him and some chance of positively influencing him. And because we don't seem willing to use JJ anyway. Or Bogans for Rush straight up to save the Pacers money.
So anyway, I think these are the gettable prospects. Maybe there are a couple other ones out there that I've missed. Not DeMar DeRozan though, he's poop. I think they all offer an upgrade in the quality of minutes they can provide over Bogans, and I think the cost for all is a reasonable one. That being said, I don't see any of them, aside from Lee, as a very likely longer-term answer to our problem. That is, if you tell me Brandon Rush is getting minutes for the rest of the year, instead of Keith Bogans, I'm happy. To a lesser extent, that's true of Webster as well. Lee... I can see it working a little better although I'm not 100% sure of it working.
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Nice breakdown, it all makes sense to me
I think I’d have them ranked in that order as well (Lee, Webster, Rush). However, if we got Rush (and keep winning) we could continue to absolutely baffle John Hollinger (http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/14569/a-lot-of-minutes-little-production).
why can't Neil pick on Bogans for once?
by Rose Colored Goggles on Feb 3, 2011 9:00 AM CST reply actions
Hamilton makes perfect sense
If his contract is bought out. There is no reason not to go after him when you can sign him for next to nothing and don’t need to give anything up.
Obviously this may not happen, but I wouldn’t put it in the category that you did either.
Except... His contract hasn't been bought out
So it makes complete sense to have him in that category.
And there’s no reason whatsoever for the Pistons to take it on the chin to the tune of $25m or whatever the exact amount they’d have to shell out in a buyout is.
BullsTwo > Back up and running!
by Sports2 on Feb 3, 2011 9:49 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I'm OK with Courtney Lee if we just give him Bogans' minutes...
But Brewer and Korver are still the better players, in my opinion. Honestly, there’s nothing very exciting to me about any of the three you’ve got listed.
me too
brandon rush for jj or (especially) bogans seems a much better move
The name of the team is ARIZONA DIAMONDBACKS - "I tried to convince them that what they were doing was an aberration, an imbecility, a stupidity without name"
free throws.
Brewer can’t shoot free throws is a late game problem.
by ChiTownTeez.com on Feb 4, 2011 1:04 PM CST up reply actions
I wouldn't give up Asik for Lee
straight up, let alone with a draft pick thrown in.
The Bulls front court depth has saved them time and again this season. Plus, Asik may be the most rapidly improving player on the roster.
by Reaver on Feb 3, 2011 9:46 AM CST reply actions 7 recs
I wouldnt either
but he really has not improved at all since the start of the season. Inconsistent minutes have hampered any growth. Honestly, I don’t know if he will get better. He’s played overseas, and he’s 24.
"I love you, mommy!" - Joakim Noah
Maybe his skills haven't improved,
I couldn’t judge that anyway…but it seems to me that his overall play has improved, that at the very least he’s a lot less tentative than he was earlier in the season. He looks confident, and his oncourt demeanor seems more confident, intentional and less…flaily?
Also, it looked to me like he legitimately aggravated Dwight Howard last time the Bulls played the Magic.
by Reaver on Feb 4, 2011 12:03 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
"Also, it looked to me like he legitimately aggravated Dwight Howard last time the Bulls played the Magic."
Agreed; he’s also one of the few Bulls front-court players who can play sound defense and disrupt shots simply by playing his man straight-up – with good position, footwork, and long arms held aloft – and not be forced to resort to fouling or funneling his man towards a help-defender.
Everyone says he'll get stronger over the summer.
And Thomas isn’t getting any younger, so we need someone to play back-up center in the coming years. Maybe we can keep hiring savvy vets, and maybe Asik will get more savvy.
i never thought about Brandon Rush before
i’d kind of like to see that.
i wouldn’t mind Courtney Lee, but no way would i give up Asik for him.
by M 80 on Feb 3, 2011 9:59 AM CST reply actions 4 recs
i think the big issue
is if we bring in another SG, i want bogans gone in the deal too. it’s been established through the entire year that brewer and korver are better than bogans, yet bogans continues to start. the only way i see at this point to get him out of the lineup is if he’s off the team entirely. while i like lee/rush/webster more than bogans, i don’t think thibs will see it as enough of an upgrade to knock bogans back to his rightful spot on the end of the bench
http://ExtendtheGame.blogspot.com
by Calogero on Feb 3, 2011 10:08 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
I don't believe they will pull the trigger on any trades
I do agree that if a trade were to occur the players you have identified are the most likely 3 guys the Bulls would go after… I keep hearing Jefferies but I don’t buy it, Bogans is better than him this year!
In the end though, I think they’re going to say, A) we don’t want to trade any of our front court depth (Asik, Thomas or Gibson) given the injuries we’ve had and how well the reserves have plugged in when needed. B) We don’t want to hurt the team chemistry in any deal by losing a key piece. C) we don’t want to lose future flexibility given the salary cap unknowns etc. In other words the only deals they’ll do are for JJ or maybe our pick (I don’t see the Charlotte pick even being considered in any deal.
BTW, outside of the three guys you mention, do you think management would have any interest in a backup PG? Not sure if it is worth much or if anyone is availible, but that is the only other glaring weakness that we need to address and we could shift Watson over to backup 2 duties.
I think you could be right, but the downside is losing out on a perhaps legitimate chance to win this year
The reason you pull the trigger now is
1. The Celtics are old
2. The Magic are fading
3. More off seasons will give the Heat the opportunity to fill in depth. Right now, they’re limited and not deep, so this may represent our best opportunity to beat them. Further, beating them this year might have psychological effects. I’d rather be in the driver’s seat and make them climb the mountain to find out if they can beat us, rather than vice versa.
JMO, but I don’t see backup PG as a problem. CJ is doing fine. And who’s Jefferies?
BullsTwo > Back up and running!
by Sports2 on Feb 3, 2011 12:54 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Jared Jeffries?
I guess? But he’s a SF/PF …
believes in the Keith Bogans Prophecy [12-0]
yup, I've heard it from some Houston people I know...
I just don’t see it as he sucks… I don’t have a link, but I’ve heard the bulls might have interest in him… I don’t know why, and likely (hopefully) it is bull shit…. I only mention it because we’re talking about Lee and they’re on the same team.
#3 is exactly the reason why I think the Bulls need to make a move now
This is the best chance to beat the Heat, and I’m afraid that after this season they might become unbeatable with offseason acquisitions. The time is now to strike.
Deng/Boozer/Noah: All your rebound are belong to us.
by Illini15 on Feb 3, 2011 2:37 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
I agree...
I just wonder if management will be content to roll with this roster, that has to this point in the season, matched the Heat’s record (with a victory over the Heat).
Until we get a tagline, yfbb=your friendly Bogans blogger.
I don't think the three Stooges should be our concern at this point.
First of all, I think we match up pretty well against a lot of the good teams. The Celtics and the Magic are who we might have to worry about down the road. The Heat are just a sideshow for viewing purposes and the hope to expand NBA basketball. You really think Lebron cares about winning a chip? This isn’t the 90’s or earlier, anymore. He makes more money in one minute of play than most people make in a year. He knew where he was going, or where he was ‘probably’ gonna go to, years in advance. But anyway, worry about C’s, Lakers, Spurs, Magic, Knicks (maybe) and one or two other Western Conf. teams. Fuck the Heat. Aren’t you tired of hearing/reading about them every fucking day!?!
Backup PG
Outside of a Shooting Guard, I’d say backup PG is our weakest spot… that is the only reason I bring it up. Watson is OK, but kind of inconsistent, though he seems to be getting better.
by 72-10 on Feb 4, 2011 9:07 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Watson sucks...
It is the Bulls weakest position…fortunately, he only plays about 10 minutes per night, so Bogans 16 minutes gets more of the attention. I would trade them both for a decent combo guard (Kirk).
Until we get a tagline, yfbb=your friendly Bogans blogger.
which is why I brought up backup PG in the first place
But SG is the #1 need…. Poor Kirk…. Washington really sucks. I wouldn’t mind having him back as a backup PG/SG but it ain’t happening this year.
It's kinda ironic you want him back
People in here practically ran him out of town because he wasn’t BG or his contract was too big or he couldn’t hit a 3 PTer, now you want him back?
Well it’s not happening. He may be a Celtic before he’s a Bull again.
Pulling the trigger now
I guess we’ll see soon if management agrees with you! I’d bet, if they make a deal, that they’re going to wait until right up until the deadline.
Wade’s window as an elite player will be closing within a couple years.
His style of play and his inability to improve at outside shooting means that he gets beat up a lot, and he has no means to compensate as he begins to lose his elite athleticism. In spite of the occasional big shot or 3pt flurry, Wade is a bad outside shooter. He is utterly dependant on his athletic ability to be great. Miami will be a very good team for a while, but I would say that next year is their BEST chance to win. After that Wade’s decline will counteract any aquisition of better role players to prevent them from becoming some kind of superteam 3 or 4 years down the road..
I agree that we should try to get an upgrade for Bogans, and that Lee would certainly be an upgrade. I just don’t think the Bulls should act out of fear of the future Miami colossus and give up someone like Asik for him. He’s not enough of an upgrade to justify that IMO.
Big picture, time is more on the Bulls side than on the Heats. Doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t try to make the present be more on the Bulls side as well.
News flash: Luol Deng is good...We now return you to your regularly scheduled hating...
by kingles on Feb 4, 2011 1:37 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
C;mon... dude just turned 29. Barring some major injury, he's going to be awesome for several years.
BullsTwo > Back up and running!
What he’s elite at offensively
Attack the basket, finish, get fouled, or find a teamate for an open shot. All these things are predicated on his great athleticism. He has a high basktball IQ, is a good ballhandler, a good passer, and a skilled defender. I’m not saying he is going to suck in a couple years. Only that he will no longer be a top tier player. He’s not going to be able to develop an elite post up game at his size, and his 3pt shot is not likely to improve much at this stage. Plus he takes more of a beating than most players.
This is why i’m so glad that Derrick has developed a 3pt shot.
News flash: Luol Deng is good...We now return you to your regularly scheduled hating...
by kingles on Feb 4, 2011 3:22 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
how far do you see him dropping?
i’d be surprised if Wade wasn’t still a top 20 player in 4 years. Yeah he’s 29 but he came in to the league the same year as Lebron and Melo. He sat out his first year at Marquette. The guy doesn’t have a ton of mileage on his body and NBA players are having more success later in their careers than ever before.
by Basketball Smurf on Feb 4, 2011 4:21 PM CST up reply actions
His body doesn’t have that much mileage on it in terms of MP.
Few players his size have gotten knocked on their ass more per MP though. I won’t rule out the possibility that he’ll hold up longer than I expect, but when he loses a step, how will he dominate? Can he morph his game like MJ did, or to a lesser extent Kobe has done? Can he post up against SG’s who are frequently bigger than him? Will he develop an effective outside shot?
My feeling about Wade is that he is so reliant upon his athletic ability to dominate, that a even a relatively small loss of quickness will hurt his game more than it would a lot of other top players. He has no effective fall back when he loses a step as all players do. I just don’t see how he’ll adjust enough to remain elite. It’s kind of hard to say how far he drops, 80% of Wade is still a top 5 SG.
News flash: Luol Deng is good...We now return you to your regularly scheduled hating...
You're overestimating how much of Wade's game is based on athleticism
It’s not like simply blows by guys with his speed. He relies on craftiness to get to the rim just as much as his natural quickness. He lulls guys to sleep and then attacks when the defender makes a mistake. He may lose a step, but his instincts for when and where to attack won’t fade.
Pat Riley is the devil.
I understand this and mentioned it in one of my replies above.
I’m not talking about his ability to be GOOD though. I’m talking about his ability to be ELITE. He’ll still be a good player in 3-4 years. He just won’t be the DWade we know who can put up 30+ on any given night against defenses geared to stop him. There’s no shame in that.
News flash: Luol Deng is good...We now return you to your regularly scheduled hating...
Plus, guy's like him are usually pretty good at adapting once their athleticism starts to fade
(as much as it pains me to say it)
Better off hoping for an injury with that guy. He’ll be really good for a while
I believe in The Bogans Prophecy.
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 4, 2011 6:08 PM CST up reply actions
He’s a 6’4" SG who is still a 30% 3pt. shooter after all this time.
Most elite SG’s begin to adjust BEFORE their althletic ability beginns to fade, Wade has not.
News flash: Luol Deng is good...We now return you to your regularly scheduled hating...
Wade's one of the best SGs ever
Comparisons kinda fly out the window. Plus, the success that the Celtics, Spurs, and Suns are having with older players makes me believe that modern medicine is getting much more adept and extending players’ careers.
Pat Riley is the devil.
I agree that Wade is one of the best SG’s ever.
Which I think validates comparing and contrasting him with MJ and Kobe as I did above. In an odd way, I kind of hope you’re right. I feel little but loathing for the Heats, but Wade is a great player and it’s enjoyable to see great players do their stuff(as long as they don’t beat the Bulls).
News flash: Luol Deng is good...We now return you to your regularly scheduled hating...
One of the best ever???
Do you guys mean like top 25 all-time? Or are you thinking top 5?
Not to start a debate, but I think some of the Wade love is hyperbolic…I don’t think he is the best guard of our generation…
Until we get a tagline, yfbb=your friendly Bogans blogger.
by Dionysus2.0 on Feb 5, 2011 1:34 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I'd take these six...
Jordan, Bryant, West, Bing, Gervin, Maravich
by badnewsintennisshoes on Feb 5, 2011 7:04 PM CST up reply actions
It gets really dicey when you're comparing eras so dramatically different...
But Bing and Maravich had very undistinguished careers in terms of wins and losses, so I’ll take Wade over them in a heartbeat. He’s clearly behind Kobe and MJ at this point, and it’s pretty impossible to conclusively say where he stands in relation to Gervin and West, but I’ll give you all 4 of them and say he’s the 5th best SG of all time right now. But he’s not done yet.
Pat Riley is the devil.
I thought he was talking about top 5 or 25 PLAYERS
Because I can’t believe anybody thinks it’s possible that he’s not one of the top 25 SG’s of all time.
News flash: Luol Deng is good...We now return you to your regularly scheduled hating...
No way would I give up Asik for Lee.
While it’d be nice to have Lee because it means Bogans would no longer play, legitimate big men who actually have some skills are more valuable than an average SG in my opinion.
by Grinder in Training on Feb 3, 2011 10:33 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
completely agree
Lee hasn’t done much to distinguish himself besides be a long for the ride when Orlando went to the Finals. He is a decent 2 guard, but Asik has the chance to be a good big man. That is more valuable than Lee imo.
by Basketball Smurf on Feb 3, 2011 11:59 AM CST up reply actions
As in my response to 72-10, I think ability this year is at a premium.
Asik’s got upside, but I don’t know how much time is on our side. I’m thinking we need something to improve our odds this year, because other things being equal, our odds next year won’t be as good.
Still, Asik would probably be the last asset I’m willing to consider, unless some sort of unexpectedly good offer comes along.
BullsTwo > Back up and running!
I do put a premium on winning this year
but I believe Asik is a top 7 guy on this team moving forward. I think depth and size up front are essential to a championship team and given that Kurt Thomas is 38 years old, having a talented backup for Noah is essential.
I’d be more willing to trade the Charlotte pick than Asik. I just believe that besides Rose and the D, the Bulls biggest advantage is how deep and talented our front court is. I believe Asik can play a big role this year.
by Basketball Smurf on Feb 3, 2011 7:31 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Great post
Agree on all fronts. Do whatever you can do during the trade deadline without sacrificing that frontcourt depth. Besides, I think guys like Lee are the best fit anyway, and there’s no way in hell we should have to give up Taj or Asik for him
I believe in The Bogans Prophecy.
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 3, 2011 7:36 PM CST up reply actions
I largely agree with what you've said. Asik would be the last guy I'd give up, and I'd probably want to think more on it.
But 4th big guys, even good ones, are usually pretty available moving forward.
BullsTwo > Back up and running!
Yeah, but he's only "fourth guy" according to the current depth chart
He has much more ability than that. I think he could potentially develop into the best backup big in the league, and a starter on a good number of other teams
I believe in The Bogans Prophecy.
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 4, 2011 6:10 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I agree with everything being said
I just really wanted to be a part of this awesome convo
Nice write up here, but the player you didn't consider was Anthony Parker -
who fits squarely into your gettable category. He’s big (6’6 210), smart, experienced, and a better three point shooter than Lee. Also only on a 1 year contract. I think I’d pretty much take him over the field at this point if he can be got for a 1st rounder.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
And on the subject of his shooting,
I think you have to look more at his Lebron years than this year – because those are the kind of open looks he’d see with Derrick.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
I did, and while he shot better, he's 35... almost 36. And it shows
I look at him and see his game has deteriorated a lot. I wouldn’t trust his D at all against guys in the playoffs. God help me, I think I’d rather just stick with Bogans. It’s not even that I think Bogans is great defensively, but he knows the system better and isn’t going to completely break down. I could see that happening with Parker though, so I’d have to say there’s not enough upside to him.
BullsTwo > Back up and running!
by Sports2 on Feb 3, 2011 12:35 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I think part of the reason Thibs likes Bogans
is the type of defense Bogans plays…sort of like a linebacker. He doesn’t finesse guys at all. He’s not quick and long and graceful like Thabo. I think he causes his opponent pain, especially when everyone gets bunched up, Bogans really works the guy over as he tries to find open space.
Almost want to flag this...
Simplt because you are making Bogans sound like a GOOD player. D.Rose would be 25pts/10ast if he wasn’t in the lineup. He misses too many open shots and gets BURNED on D. If he’s a linebacker, then he must play for a Pop Warner team.
He doesn't get burned on D
He gets scored on, just like every other player in the league, but he’s a good defensive player overall.
It's just for the year, so his age doesn't bother me.
Honestly, I think we’re going to wait this one out and try to make a splash in free agency with whatever incarnation of the MLE is coming.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on Feb 3, 2011 2:00 PM CST up reply actions
Really don't know about Parker's approach to diet and conditioning, but
No one complains about Ray Ray Allen, Derrick Fisher or Grant Hill. Thoses guys can still run the court and defend at a high level. I heard that Allen and probably Fisher’s diet and conditioning are strongly attributed to their ability to compete still at a high level..
But this is the GM’s office responsibility to know theses things..like thinking outside the box….
"Maybe Paxson influenced has been a bit silenced :-) , although his carnage of the development of the team still persist"
Fisher's a terrible defender and a weak link for the Lakers
Well, isn't what LeBron did last night the living embodiment of The Secret, leaving millions on the table and turning himself into a hometown villain, all for the sake of winning?
Neil Paine, basketball-reference.com
by snley on Feb 3, 2011 4:29 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I used to be a proponent of getting parker....
then I actually saw him play… his age definitely shows… unless I am mistaking it for plain indifference. Either way I don’t want him on this Bulls team.
If we can get Parker for basically nothing
He’s an excellent choice as a stop gap while we look for a long term solution
Nice
Ill take Rush or Lee anytime..wonder is Rush and Rose would bump heads just cuz..
this was hilarious btw:
His head is full of rocks and weed smoke.
..and da so mi ah seh!
In which group would you place Rudy Fernandez?
The Blazers are still in the playoff hunt, but they have to have a mind towards assets, right? The contract certainly fits what the Bulls are likely looking for.
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"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 3, 2011 11:51 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
I don't think the Bulls and Blazers could reach an agreement.
They probably have a mind toward future assets, but Rudy is locked in at only $2M next year and has an obvious role. So trading him would not only sabotage their playoff run, it would be trading away a guy who could be part of their future for another guy who could be part of their future.
To make that worthwhile for them, I think we’d have to make a better offer than we’re actually willing to make. And then we’d still have to worry about Rudy’s happiness whims and whether he plays enough D to make Thibs happy.
If I were gonna make a push for someone on the Blazers, it’d be Wes Matthews. All of the same stuff applies as to why they wouldn’t trade him either, but if they want a bunch of assets, I’d give up more to get him, and at least over this year and next they can make do with Rudy and not lose too much.
And if I were the Bulls, Matthews would be a guy I’d be much more likely to throw caution to the wind for and offer up quite a bit. He’s young, has shot very well, plays awesome D, and while his contract is long, it’s hard to say it’s unjustified for his production.
Of course, this is also why, if I were the Blazers, it’d take a really great offer to get him. They’re better off with him and unloading Camby and Miller to contenders if they decide they want to chuck the season.
BullsTwo > Back up and running!
with matthews injured and roy basically done (damn shame btw)
im gonna say that Portland tried its bets to keep Rudy and see if he resigns for cheap. you know, the old “kissing your under-appreciated ass because your extremely needed now” rule
..and da so mi ah seh!
read on fanhouse.com today that Rudy wants to stay in Portland now...
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
While the Bulls might pick up a shooting guard, don't count on them giving up either Bogans or Asik..
Currently, their 2-guard rotation of Bogans and Brewer is producing 10 pts, 5.5 boards, 5 assists, and a couple of steeals over 40 minutes, with Brewer accounting for 58% of the minutes and 64% of the production. You can look at team plus/minus by player and rotation, and you’ll notice that the bulls guards ranks Korver, Brewer, and Bogans, in that order, so there’s an interesting argument for the bench Bogans brigade. However, there’s one more important statistic:
34-14, 25-5 in the last 30 games. Until that number changes, I would expect a very conservative trade/roster changeup strategy.
by DisCUBbobulated on Feb 3, 2011 12:24 PM CST reply actions
Agree with everything except
Not DeMar DeRozan though, he’s poop
He’s not poop, he’s really good. His shot has been off a bit as of late and he really has no three point shot (something the Bulls desperately need) but he’s got a nice solid all around game and his athleticism at the position would be a nice fit alongside Rose
DeRozan is awful
just awful. His shot hasn’t been off lately, he doesn’t have one.
by Gentleman Jim on Feb 7, 2011 2:41 PM CST up reply actions
DeRozan is 41% from 16-23 feet from the hoop
You won’t find too many players that shoot better from that distance.
Pat Riley is the devil.
Take a step back DeRozan!!!
CDR and Courtney Lee: just two players the Bulls could have at SG this year.
RIP Keith Bogans Prophecy [12-1]
Great post
Although I would add Anthony Parker to the list. He can definitely be had, and the Bulls are interested from what we’ve heard.
Also, why no OJ Mayo? Never underestimate a small market franchise at trade time in this NBA climate. Memphis could get stupid and we could have a steal on our hands. Given all the drama surrounding his Grizzlies tenure, I wouldn’t eliminate that possibility. Unless the Bulls don’t want him because of “character issues”, in which case, they’re dumb.
Also, I think there’s a chance (very small one), that Richard Hamilton gets bought out. Nobody is gonna trade for that guy, and it’s become painfully obvious that Detroit wants to move on. Something could happen there.
But, out of all the guys you mentioned, Courtney Lee is the one. I want that guy bad. He fits the makeup of this team perfectly. Team player, doesn’t demand the ball, defends, shoots the three. He really could be the missing piece. It sucks major ass that he plays for the Rockets, because Morey seems like a cock to deal with. And I definitely wouldn’t give up Asik (way too much potential as a big man, to trade for a SG). But I really want this guy on the Bulls. Get it done Pax!
Also, I just want to add: This team NEEDS to make a trade. There’s been a sentiment floating around that they might not, cause they’re young and will be good for a long time and yada, yada, yada. That’s all bullshit. This may be the best chance we ever have.
Rose is the only guy we can truly count on going forward. There’s injury concerns and question marks surrounding everyone else. Plus, like others have mentioned, Miami is only getting better. The window is now, do whatever you can to make it happen. Hopefully Garpax see it that way too
I believe in The Bogans Prophecy.
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 3, 2011 1:37 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
What gives that impression regarding Morey?
Until we get a tagline, yfbb=your friendly Bogans blogger.
Well, I can't link to anything right now
but I remember reading and hearing several times about how he won’t do anything unless it’s totally clear that he has won the trade.
I believe in The Bogans Prophecy.
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 3, 2011 5:22 PM CST up reply actions
I think there are other guys out there to go get
Francisco Garcia seems to have many of the same qualities of a Parker or a Rush plus is well liked by teammates. Afflao or JR Smith could easily become available depending on how Carmelo talks plays out. And who knows what the Nets or Knicks may give up to acquire draft picks to get Carmelo
by Basketball Smurf on Feb 3, 2011 7:47 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
two guys who we should have pursued for cheap earlier
rudy fernandez-perfect time to get him was the start of the season, he was playing bad and with his rep in turmoil..it sucks that now hes playing better (though 3pt shooting is spotty, he has been contributing a lot more with defense and playmaking) and his reputation is all but completely fixed. Now portland is going to look to sell high, and that means theres no real trading with them unless ur desperate…which the bulls arent.
Daequan cook-i think he couldve been had for dirt cheap, theres not much to his game, but hes athletic and a good 3pt shooter, which the world is now seeing more of lately. At the start of the season he was riding the bench a lot more, but as the season has progressed hes found more playing time, and more chances to score…so his value has gone up. A little undersized at the 2, but his athleticism allows him to at least stay with his guy. He might not be a better defender than bogans (probably about equal) but hes a better shooter by far..and very cheap
but i think these two are no longer options….
I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!
Portland had no incentive to sell low though.
He wasn’t making a lot of money, they would have just hung on to him if they couldn’t get anything for him.
by Grinder in Training on Feb 3, 2011 2:37 PM CST up reply actions
well considering it wouldve been low in the future but not at that present time
during the begining of the season, near december, our first round of this year was still questionable at how high it would be, that wouldve been an incentive. kurt thomas and his abililty to play wouldve also been a nice xfactor, and we could sell some myth about bogans. Had they sent james johnson to dleague earlier we also couldve used him as bait. Hell after watching thomas play, i wouldve traded taj instead of thomas….or even asik…..it still isnt very low, but it wouldnt really affect our team in a negative way, and opposed to now wouldve been cheaper.
I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!
oh man, Daequan Cook woulda been a good pickup
But thats too much hindsight,
Yeah, but the front office should be able to recognize things like that
I believe in The Bogans Prophecy.
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 3, 2011 3:34 PM CST up reply actions
i was calling to get him
in the offseason, he played well in miami, and did a good job playing alongside wade (basically just spotting up for 3s) enough so to get into a 3pt competition (though he didnt do well there). The bare minimum for a sg alongside rose is the ability to shoot 3s, and to have enough athleticism to run alongside rose and defend 2s at an adequate level. Daequan is the bare minimum.
I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!
orrrr we could start Brewer!
I hope Kotsay gets hit by a dump truck and slips into a coma where he is stuck forever in Baseball purgatory having to bat against a three-headed, six-armed Lefty Hydra consisting of Billy Wagner, Damaso Marte, and Randy Johnson. - Shoeless In SC
by blackoutsox on Feb 3, 2011 2:50 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Evn if he starts, we still need a backup
BullsTwo > Back up and running!
by Sports2 on Feb 3, 2011 2:59 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Brewer can't shoot
"he scores 6pts, automatic win…maybe thibs knew that from the getgo, bogans is like some human cheat code, all he needs is 6pts" - piccolomair
by JustAnotherFan on Feb 3, 2011 4:55 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
48%
He doesn’t shoot from deep, but this idea that he’s a bricklayer is a myth.
He’s decent up to 18 ft.
"I love you, mommy!" - Joakim Noah
by Trey23 on Feb 4, 2011 11:54 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
sin?
West Coast Assassination Missions:
Clippers: Mission Accomplished
Warriors:
Trail Blazers:
Jazz:
Hornets:
by Dr. Handsome, D.D.S. on Feb 3, 2011 6:15 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
I like Courtney Lee, but I'd be concerned with the FO seeing him as a long term answer
This team is in need of another playmaker and, I think, would be better off just waiting until the off season and try to acquire the likes of Iguodala, Mayo, Richardson, or Smith. Even at the cost of a little defense, this team is in need of an offensive booster shot.
Well, isn't what LeBron did last night the living embodiment of The Secret, leaving millions on the table and turning himself into a hometown villain, all for the sake of winning?
Neil Paine, basketball-reference.com
by snley on Feb 3, 2011 3:41 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I share your concern, but I don't think you can let fear of a bad decision stop you from making a good decision
Most importantly, we don’t know that a guy like that will be available at all. And there’s some chance that Lee could be the answer. And perhaps most importantly, if we can get Lee for a reasonable price (say JJ and our pick, I in no way see how it precludes us from going after someone better.
The way I look at it, Lee’s stock would probably rise if we acquire him and have a somewhat successful run in the playoffs. This would make it more possible, not less, to get another marquee player, because then we’ll have another guy we can trade.
Now, I understand you’re saying it might make the Bulls not even look, but I think that sort of thing is gonna take care of itself. I think Lee would improve our chances of beating the Heat or Celtics, but I don’t think it’ll make us likely to beat them. So I think the likely lesson will be that we need to improve in the off-season, even if we got Lee now.
BullsTwo > Back up and running!
by Sports2 on Feb 3, 2011 7:59 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I like this line of thinking.
If the Bulls acquire Lee, even if he only plays to his career averages, he will still represent a much more valuable trade entity than the combined package of James Johnson and the Bulls’ first-round pick (much less either of those components separately) — if for no other reason than additional exposure on a playoff team.
all i remember about lee is that botched layup in the finals
The ultimate fan experience is no longer courtside seats, it's Keith Bogan's job.
Yes, he missed an alley oop lay up on an out of bounds play. Obviously the guy should never touch the ball in a close game
Well, isn't what LeBron did last night the living embodiment of The Secret, leaving millions on the table and turning himself into a hometown villain, all for the sake of winning?
Neil Paine, basketball-reference.com
I always thought Gasol hit the rim and that was defensive interference
believes in the Keith Bogans Prophecy [12-0]
by Prevenge on Feb 4, 2011 1:35 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
What about Shannon Brown?
If the Lakers are really considering changes, then I would think the most likely candidates to be moved are Shannon Brown, Ron Artest, and Andrew Bynum. I wouldn’t do any type of Artest/Brown for Deng trade as I saw suggested in another post, and I really don’t think the Lakers would take JJ, Bogans and our 1st for him.
If the Lakers are breaking it up
maybe we can finally get Kobe. He looks like he has about fifteen good games left in him, let’s get him and rest him until the playoffs.
by Gentleman Jim on Feb 7, 2011 2:46 PM CST up reply actions
Can someone please
tell me the details of the Charlotte pick? Sorry, I’ve seen it mentioned as a trade asset a million times but never seen what the protection is, etc.
DEJESUS!!!
its basically becomes less and less protected until 2016 when its totally unprotected
and thats when we’re getting the next great NBA superstar!!!!!
The ultimate fan experience is no longer courtside seats, it's Keith Bogan's job.
by sin on Feb 3, 2011 5:30 PM CST up reply actions
Scoring guards are hard to come by...
The Bulls have 2 of them (Brewer and Korver) yet neither is starting because They serve a better purpose of having a stronger bench team. That’s the price of starting Bogans. So really we don’t need a another scorer…but a better defender who can be a greater threat than Bogans on offense. So we should be looking for a top defender, not a scorer.
I like to see if we can get Kirk Hinrich or Thabo Sefalosha back. These guys can be both good defenders or a spark off the bench. I’d be willing to part ways with Johnson (only because we never gave him a fair chance this year), Scalabrine and Bogans.
they already have the best D in the NBA and a below average offense
They need more help scoring the ball
Well, isn't what LeBron did last night the living embodiment of The Secret, leaving millions on the table and turning himself into a hometown villain, all for the sake of winning?
Neil Paine, basketball-reference.com
To add on, Bulls can't reacquire Kirk till the offseason but his contract would still be too big to make sense to trade for him
and Thabo’s worthless on offense and not much of an upgrade defensively over Brewer or even Bogans
Well, isn't what LeBron did last night the living embodiment of The Secret, leaving millions on the table and turning himself into a hometown villain, all for the sake of winning?
Neil Paine, basketball-reference.com
Personally
I’d frown upon signing any two guard that would allow the opponent to defend Rose with a two.
Martell Webster – JJ/Bogans/Scalabrine for Webster.
It was a good article up until that. Are you serious? Trade Scalabrine? Then how will we know that we won?
Troll
9/8/10: 49ers go 11-5, Lose to Falcons first round. Smitty: 3500/25/15. Gore: 1300 yards, 10 TDs. Crabtree: 1000 yards, 7 TDs. Vernon: 900 yards, 8 TDs
by MichaelClutchtree on Feb 3, 2011 6:37 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I really like your reasoning
up until the point where you preach Brandon Rush and say that DeMar DeRozan is “poop.” That’s hilarious to me. I’d take DeMar ten times before I took B Rush.
But there’s no way we’d get DeMar or anything relatively fair. Toronto thinks he’s better than I do, and I like him.
Anarchist. Misanthrope. Beard aficionado.
The Hoosier has clearly not watched the Canadian team...
DeRozan has been solid for Toronto all season and I cannot imagine he is available for anything resembling what the Bulls would have to offer…
Until we get a tagline, yfbb=your friendly Bogans blogger.
I had a little email back and forth with Sam Smith today that some of you might find kinda interesting
so I figured I’d throw em on here. My questions were a bit long winded, so I’ll just write the gist of what I was asking.
First, I asked whether or not he thought we would make a move at the deadline. Saying that, recently, it’s sounding less likely that one will happen.
His response:
who are you hearing that from
that is not necessarily true
After that, even though the question was probably rhetorical, I responded back by telling him where I heard it (KC’s mailbag). And since it sounded like he disagreed, I asked who he thought we were targeting.
His response:
that’s just their opinion
i’d say the odds are they don’t make a deal because they don’t have much teams want as far as players they can trade
they are trying to trade their draft picks without much success so far
so something can happen, but it depends on if someone else wants to deal
they are not trying to stand pat and i know that
And that’s it. Apparently he does agree with KC that the Bulls will stand pat. Although not for lack of effort. And it looks like the only thing they want to give up is draft picks, which I can’t say I disagree with, if the names being thrown around are Courtney Lee, Anthony Parker etc. Anyways, nothing all that interesting, just thought you guys might want to see it
I believe in The Bogans Prophecy.
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 3, 2011 6:59 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
if we can get courtney lee for picks...
you do it and don’t look back, imo
by Basketball on Feb 3, 2011 7:32 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
that's good news considering we still have time
let’s see what happens in the trade deadline freakout fest
"he scores 6pts, automatic win…maybe thibs knew that from the getgo, bogans is like some human cheat code, all he needs is 6pts" - piccolomair
by JustAnotherFan on Feb 3, 2011 8:22 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
You're all welcome aboard the bandwagon
assholes
"Everyone loves it when the guy everyone loves tells how the guy everyone hates is a big pussy." -cayal
by paddyfairview on Feb 3, 2011 7:54 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
Courtney Lee will not be a Bull. Bogans is awesome.
AND ONE!!!!!! YOU MUTHAFUCKING PIECE OF SHIT REF!!!! AND ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Courtney Lee is a marginal upgrade.
I wouldn’t give up assets for him.
by SoulEater7 on Feb 3, 2011 8:03 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
Well, what do you define as "assets"?
Draft picks can be considered assets. I would give one away for Lee. If you’re referring to Taj and Asik, I agree
I believe in The Bogans Prophecy.
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 3, 2011 9:00 PM CST up reply actions
Hey....can somebody remind what
our 1st pick situation is for the next couple of years? What’s up with the Charlotte pick again?
Heat Vs Magic.. Howard at it again!
Wow anyone watching this game. Howard just put Wade on his back . Wade lands on his Tailbone, this play is the same thing he did to DRose last year right around the same time to.
by CABull on Feb 3, 2011 8:37 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I don't understand all the love and admiration for 2nd tier SG's
We’ve already have 2 or 3 who fit very well in Thibs’ system. Get over it.
by hlac on Feb 3, 2011 9:51 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Bogans is obviously mediocre, but I don't understand the fascination with
the 2nd tier SG’s that are marginal upgrades. Because Bogans takes so few shots the upgrade from Lee to Bogans is hardly difference making if ti makes a difference at all. Lee has yet to be efficient enough for his higher USG% to be much of an asset. He actually gets off fewer 3PA per minute than Bogans, despite a USG% that’s 70% higher. And Lee’s offensive work inside the arc isn’t exactly inspiring. With Noah eventually returning to the starting lineup it’s not clear that Lee would clearly be preferable to Bogans. Keith’s brand of being terrible forces the ball and the shots into the hands of the Bulls best players, which actually is preferable to many more talented guards (See Rip Hamilton) because the Bulls have surplus usage in their starting lineup. The current starting lineup actually has an ORtg of 109, despite Bogans and Thomas barely contributing offensively. Exchange Noah for Thomas and Bogans becomes even less of an issue.
Bogans should still be replaced before next season, but the difference between Lee and Bogans is not a NBA Championship this season. The Bulls will be in a much better position to address the SG this offseason with the MLE or whatever replaces it and Watson, Brewer, and Korver all potentially expiring because of the unguaranteed third year (Unless a trade guarantees their third years, but I haven’t read anything suggesting that they have a trade clause to this point). The Bulls have limited assets now and going forward to improve the team, and they shouldn’t be wasting them on a marginal difference maker like Lee.
by Scotter on Feb 4, 2011 1:46 AM CST up reply actions 8 recs
I agree, except...
Sports2’s position seems to be that there is a need to replace Bogans this season. There’s a very deliberate reason that Lee, Rush and the rest are being discussed here—it’s that those are the guys that would be made available at a good price in order to go for it now, as opposed to next season or thereafter.
Plus, what if D-Rose has to take a couple more games off (for whatever reason)? We know Bogans isn’t a scorer in this league, so can we really rely upon CJ and Brewer to make up for all of Rose’s scoring from the guard spots?
I think the better strategy to win this season is to get a 2-guard who, even if he’s only a marginal upgrade from Bogans, can actually pick up some scoring slack when called upon. Especially if that guard would play defense and fit in.
"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris
by bullhockey on Feb 4, 2011 11:22 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yes... I would not give up the farm to get a player this year at the expense of foreclosing all opportunity in the future.
The Bulls need to thread a needle. They have an opportunity this year to make something happen. Because they’ve got it going on and because their competitors are flawed. And they need to make the most of it.
But they do need to balance that against the future. Hence, trading for say, Stephen Jackson or Rip Hamilton would help more this year, but really make a potential upgrade next year a severe difficulty.
The flip side of this is that, if they can get a guy like Lee who can at least potentially do a good job over the long run, it softens the blog if, as is likely, we fail to make a big splash next year.
BullsTwo > Back up and running!
For all the numbers you throw out here, the crux of the argument you're making is very strange.
Essentially, what you’re saying, is you worry that, because Lee is actually a better player than Bogans, he might not be totally ignored on offense the way Bogans is.
Huh?
When Bogans is completely ignored by the defense, it generates a heavily contested shot opportunity for someone else. Replacing Bogans with a 40% three point shooter will create better opportunities for our other players simply by being on the court.
The stats you point out are largely negated by this fact. Lee obviously would not be used by the Bulls the same way he’s used by the Rockets. And while he would probably get slightly more opportunities than Bogans, the real benefit is not his own efficiency vis-a-vis Bogans, but the fact that, as a more potent offensive player, he cannot be totally ignored by the opposing defense.
Ironically, this will largely show up as improvements to Rose (and everyone else’s) efficiency, because Lee would still be the fifth option on offense, just not a fifth option that could be totally ignored. Hence, everyone else will get more good looks and less crappy ones.
BullsTwo > Back up and running!
by Sports2 on Feb 4, 2011 11:23 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
I disagree that Lee will make that kind of difference in how teams defend the Bulls.
Teams will be just as happy to let Lee shoot as Bogans. And Lee doesn’t make teams pay for leaving him open any better than Bogans.
Lee is a better 3pt shooter than Bogans.
In his 2 non-Nets seasons, where his teams offense has been able to provide him with consistent open looks he’s a legit 40% 3pt. shooter. Bogans is not, nor has he ever been. If Bogans has a strength, it’s his willingness to not attempt to do things which he is not capable of. Provided Lee would be willing to do the same, Lee is better at what Bogans does, than Bogans is.
News flash: Luol Deng is good...We now return you to your regularly scheduled hating...
by kingles on Feb 4, 2011 2:07 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
I think Scotter's point is that his marginal improvement in 3p%
Doesn’t make up for the rest of the time he is inefficiently taking usage away from Rose or Boozer or Deng.
But he isn't making an argument. He's making an accusation
Lee will inefficiently take usage away from Rose/Boozer/Deng.
There’s no reason to believe this, except, I guess, that Lee currently has a higher usage rate than Bogans. Which seems important only when you take it completely out of the context that they’re different players playing in completely different situations with completely different teammates.
Courtney Lee on the Bulls wouldn’t be used the same way as Courtney Lee on the Rockets. Just like Keith Bogans wouldn’t be used on, say, the Knicks the same way he’s used here.
To actually buy the line that Lee is going to come in and inefficiently take away too many possessions from our other players, I think you pretty much have to believe that our coach, Lee, and our other players are all idiots. Not only do they have access to all the statistical information we do, they’re actually out there, you know, playing the games. I would expect Lee to get somewhat more looks than Bogans, because I think he’ll be better able to convert them.
Right now, a Rose or Boozer shot with half a defense on him is a better look than letting a wide-open Bogans have the ball. Lee is a good shooter who will sometimes change that dynamic for the better, making those double-teams more costly and therefore less frequent. It won’t eliminate them totally, but it doesn’t have to do that to be an notable improvement.
BullsTwo > Back up and running!
by Sports2 on Feb 5, 2011 7:45 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
And I believe you overestimate how much
players adapt to a situation. Courtney Lee has played for three different teams and has basically had the same tendencies in all three situations. Bogans would indeed be used the same way on the Knicks as he used here because he is Keith Bogans. Players have a image of themselves as a player that they don’t deviate very much from.
And I believe you overestimate the benefit Lee would provide on offense. I believe you overestimate the degree to which defenses would change, the size of the benefit that Rose, Boozer, etc. would receive, and the degree to which Lee would make defenses pay versus Bogans.
If the Rockets cut Lee and the Bulls could sign up off the street then sure the Bulls should sign him to replace Bogans, but any benefit going from Bogans to Lee is so marginal that the Bulls certainly shouldn’t be giving up a first round pick let alone Asik. Nothing Lee has done to this point indicates that there is more than a marginal difference between Bogans and him.
by Scotter on Feb 5, 2011 4:53 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I disagree
We don’t need a “difference maker” at SG at this point [though it would obviously be nice …]. We need a role-player who can space the floor and play solid D, a Bruce Bowen-type. [Lee’s better on O and worse on D than Bowen.]
Courtney Lee was pretty efficient when he was in Orlando, and he’ll be in a similar situation here. His stats have gone down every year since, but as a fifth option I think he can definitely bring what we need. [He can even play the PG for short stretches if necessary.]
believes in the Keith Bogans Prophecy [12-0]
by Prevenge on Feb 4, 2011 1:03 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
"A role-player who can space the floor and play solid D, a Bruce Bowen-type."
Isn’t that Keith Bogans, at least in theory, by definition?
No, cause he doesn't space the floor
Teams barely even acknowledge Keith is on the floor. His defender is usually the first guy to come and help on Boozer or Rose. That’s where I think Scotter is a little off on his assessment. I don’t disagree that Lee isn’t this huge upgrade, but I think he would help out more than he’s letting on. I think Lee would be a nice fit, while still not taking the ball away from the guy’s that need it.
I believe in The Bogans Prophecy.
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 4, 2011 2:10 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
You guys would love C Lee.
Great defender. He’s a guy that can guard a guy like Deron Williams to a guy like Brandon Roy.
He’s a freak athlete in the open court.
His biggest strength, however, is his spot up shooting from 3. It’s automatic. It’s gotta be around 60% (Don’t know where to find very detailed stats).
Especially with Rose and Boozer, he would flourish with you guys.
He is able to create his own shot, but he’s not good at it. At the same time, he’s not bad at it either. There are mixed results basically.
We could use Asik. We are a mediocre team at 23-28, and our starting center is 6’6". Not a knock on Chuck, because he’s probably been the best low post defender in the NBA this year, but because we get beat badly by teams like Portland and Orlando, due to their size.
Some of you say Asik for Lee is not fair. I agree it isn’t, but not because Asik is that good; rather, it’s the other way around. Then again, I don’t watch the Bulls, and I’m sure you guys don’t watch the Rockets, due to David Stern currently pissing on us.
Off-topic, but I gotta say D Rose is the MVP this year. His jumper makes him unguardable, as we unfortunately had to witness first hand with a buzzer beater 3 point shot.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Feb 4, 2011 1:27 AM CST reply actions 4 recs
Asik has a TON of potential.
I’d actually rather trade Taj at this point. Want Taj? He’s in the Sophomore All-Star game, pretty good. …
believes in the Keith Bogans Prophecy [12-0]
by Prevenge on Feb 4, 2011 3:06 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Asik has no potential
he is what he is, what the hell have you been watching? He will always foul at a high rate, he will always be all thumbs on catches and rebounding in traffic.
Career 4 pts and 5 rbs, for 18 minutes a game is nothing to salivate over.
"I love you, mommy!" - Joakim Noah
He actually has tremendous potential
- Top-rated defensive player of his draft class (by ESPN, but still)
- Rugged rebounder, does not shy away from physicality
- Talented shot-blocker who routinely avoids biting on ball fakes
- Legit 7-footer
- Young and still learning
Combine all of the above with the fact that he can’t buy calls from the refs because he’s (1) a rookie and (2) a foreign-born one at that. This means that Dwight Howard can lower a shoulder and plow through him and 9 times out of ten it’s a foul on Asik. The tenth time it’s a non-call.
"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris
by bullhockey on Feb 4, 2011 12:15 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Dude the guy tries to dunk EVERYTHING
and I love him for that, it shows he ain’t no bitch
it's a very efficient shot, the dunk.
someone should inform naismith
"Sportsmanship is just loser talk for losing."
You obviously don't watch much NBA.
Just about every rookie big fouls a lot and just about every rookie big improves dramatically in their 2nd or 3rd years.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
by tyger1147 on Feb 4, 2011 7:14 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
If i’m the Rockets, Asik is the guy I want.
If i’m the Bulls I say, NO. But perhaps Bogans and our 1st round pick would work. If not, there are other fish in the sea, and I would move on.
News flash: Luol Deng is good...We now return you to your regularly scheduled hating...
by kingles on Feb 4, 2011 1:51 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I highly, highlyyyy disagree with you on Brandon Rush
His head is full of rocks and weed smoke
He is a very smart player. But, who can disappear.
Bill Self disagrees with you as well:
In other words, Self said, there is no single description of players who have good basketball IQs.
Self said former Jayhawks star Brandon Rush had as good of a feel for the game as any athlete he’s ever had at Kansas.
I would kill to acquire another player with a high basketball IQ and passion for the game who makes everyone around him better. This team has one in Derrick, even in Jo, and more could never hurt.
quotes from this article, which is an awesome read.
James Johnson Mancrush.
Bill Self on Rush:
Then we’ve had guys like Brandon who went to four high schools in four years that pick stuff up more quickly than anyone. I never had to tell him anything twice. It’s a natural thing. Some guys have it.
James Johnson Mancrush.
That's unintentionally funny. 4 high schools in 4 years might send up a couple flags too.
While he might pick up basketball really well (I never said I questioned his talent) he’s still got a head full of rocks and weed smoke.
A guy who disappears (especially for 10-40 game stretches) is problematic.
BullsTwo > Back up and running!
Maybe he'd stop disappearing on a good team?
eh.
believes in the Keith Bogans Prophecy [12-0]
I don't get your logic
We don’t know why he spent time at different schools, it could have to do with his parents as much as his own behavior.
Also, If he is a guy who knows/learns basketball and systems really really well, what more do you want? Doesn’t that prove his head isn’t “full of rocks and weed smoke”? Do you want him doing calculus on the bench?
James Johnson Mancrush.
"Do you want him doing calculus on the bench?"
I genuinely would like to see more NBA players doing calculus on the bench — not to mention reading Milton or debating the finer points of Heraclitus.
by jpx7 on Feb 4, 2011 3:05 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Would a year (or even more) of big-time-college-athlete-level education really make a difference?
I have to believe a healthy percentage of NBA players are innately intelligent enough to do any of the things I described, even without a college degree; most just aren’t encouraged or independently willing enough to do it.
I’m just asking for some variety, though — got to have a few JR Smiths, too.
If Brandon Rush knows/learns basketball and systems really really well, good on him
But living here in Indianapolis, I’ve spent several years watching him not play basketball very well. He certainly looks like he should be a hell of a basketball player. I’m not trying to deny that at all. That’s why I brought his name up in the first place.
But man… he has totally not put that talent to good use.
BullsTwo > Back up and running!
from my experience of watching the nba
rocks and weed smoke seem to be a perfect attribute for the brains of NBA player.
"Sportsmanship is just loser talk for losing."
Courtney Lee does that TOO
See draftexpress’s coverage:
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Courtney-Lee-471/
…
Man, Lee would be so great. BLAH.
believes in the Keith Bogans Prophecy [12-0]
Back at KU
It seemed as if Rush was ALWAYS in the right place at the right time. He always knew what to do a long time before he had to do it.
Is it depressing that our starting shooting guard has only scored 6 points 12 times, or is it impressive that the Bulls have gone 12-0 in those games? Mind blowing.
by wrigleyrocker12 on Feb 5, 2011 12:02 PM CST up reply actions
Redd is the only player listed here that would be a impactful upgrade
2011 WhiteSox Baseball: we're all in
contract aside, he's the only player listed here who could actually make an worthwhile enough impact
2011 WhiteSox Baseball: we're all in
Does anyone have a sense for what Redd's value will be after his current contract expires?
I think he’d be a good veteran backup for cheap.
If other teams around the league will want to pay him superstar money then they can have him.
"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris
One year at the veteran's minimum would be my guess. He's only played 51 games in the last 2 seasons and will be 31.
Not necessarily old but with all those knee injuries I doubt he’s worth more.
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 4, 2011 11:55 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I'd be very happy to sign him up if he gets bought out after the deadline and try him out
But I don’t see any reason the Bucks would do that.
BullsTwo > Back up and running!
I still do not entirely understand why we think the 2 guard spot needs the upgrade.
If we deal for a backup PG instead of a 2 guard, you simply put CJ in the 2 guard rotation. His weak percentages are based on his general lack of minutes and having to play pretty much out of position. He’s not a great defender, but he’s never particularly been a detriment to the team defense. He’s also a better ball-handler than Bogans and playing the 2 he’ll just be able to focus on getting his shot; the one thing he particularly excels at. Korver can back him up while Brewer becomes Deng’s primary back-up (of course, who backs up whom is pretty irrelevant seeing as Thibs subs based more on what he sees on the floor now days.
And Bogans can be put out to pasture.
West Coast Assassination Missions:
Clippers: Mission Accomplished
Warriors:
Trail Blazers:
Jazz:
Hornets:
by Dr. Handsome, D.D.S. on Feb 4, 2011 9:49 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
CJ at the 2 is complete fail for more than 4-6 minutes
Are you serious?
"I love you, mommy!" - Joakim Noah
Why do you believe this?
Yes, I am quite serious. You should explain why you think he is ‘completely fail’ at the 2 seeing as he’s not ‘complete fail’ at the 1 and that’s not even his natural position.
West Coast Assassination Missions:
Clippers: Mission Accomplished
Warriors:
Trail Blazers:
Jazz:
Hornets:
by Dr. Handsome, D.D.S. on Feb 4, 2011 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
he's 6.2 and 180 lbs?
Cant defend and is afraid of contact?
Refuses to shoot open 3’s even though the shot clock is running down?
Horrendous passer?
Do I have to go on?
He found a bit of success in GS where the game was wide open with little defensive pressure.
"I love you, mommy!" - Joakim Noah
Apparently you do have to go on
seeing as most of what you said made absolutely no sense. Since when is CJ afraid to shoot? Aren’t you just describing a shorter Bogans?
West Coast Assassination Missions:
Clippers: Mission Accomplished
Warriors:
Trail Blazers:
Jazz:
Hornets:
by Dr. Handsome, D.D.S. on Feb 4, 2011 6:03 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Yeah, I thought you were talking about Bogans
believes in the Keith Bogans Prophecy [12-0]
by Prevenge on Feb 5, 2011 12:59 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
CJ probably lacks the size to play SG full time
Your plan could work, but we still need to add another player. A backup PG might be harder to find than the M2GWCSAD.
I think a lot of this is based on
people projecting what Thibs will do. At least that’s the way it is for me. It’s become obvious that Thibs will not play CJ with Derrick, at least not regularly. Therefore, I try not to give it much thought, even though I think it’s a good idea.
In fact, I think a lot of pepole wouldn’t mind seeing Thibs simply put Brewer or Korver in the starting lineup before we trade for a guy that might not even be an upgrade over those two. But because it looks like Thibs isn’t gonna take Keith out of the starting lineup, people have moved into full on trade mode.
But I do agree with you, some of these issues can easily be solved in house. Just start Brewer, then go with variations of Brewer, Korver, and CJ as your 2 for the rest of the game. I think that’s just as good as adding a Tony Parker type. Seems really stupid, and strange that Thibs wouldn’t go that route. Oh well, hopefully management just trades Bogans
I believe in The Bogans Prophecy.
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 4, 2011 2:19 PM CST up reply actions
I assume you mean Anthony Parker.
Adding a “Tony Parker type” would be a pretty huge upgrade to the backup-PG spot.
oops, yeah meant "Anthony"
I believe in The Bogans Prophecy.
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 4, 2011 3:16 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe, just maybe, Thibs isn't a moron. I seem to remember he recently won an award for not being a moron. Or something.
Look, I’d like to see Bogans play less, but I’ve come to accept that there’s a method to what’s going on here. The other guys we have are strong in one skill but weak in another. Thibs has to pick his spots for them. He wants a guy with all around game. Now truly, Bogans is all around suck, but he sucks less than Brewer at shooting the 3 and he sucks less than Korver and Watson and defense.
BullsTwo > Back up and running!
by Sports2 on Feb 4, 2011 4:37 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, not buying it
If the reason for Bogans starting had anything to do with performance, then why does he NEVER bring him back into the game after he pulls him in the first and third quarters? If he was bringing something to the table that the coach liked, you’d think he’d want the guy in there at other points of the game besides the first 5 minutes of each half.
I believe in The Bogans Prophecy.
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 4, 2011 6:17 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
If he wasn't bringing anything to the table the coach liked, he wouldn't play.
BullsTwo > Back up and running!
Courtney Lee blows
all he can do is shoot the 3.
Does anyone have magical defensive stats to show he can defend?
Career 26 minutes per game and he averages 1 assist. So he can’t make the correct play.
His game inside the arc is below average.
"I love you, mommy!" - Joakim Noah
in a chat earlier this week
Bucher said Mayo or JR smith would ruin what the Bulls have going.
I don’t know about that.
"I love you, mommy!" - Joakim Noah
I think Mayo would...
He really needs the ball to be an effective scorer…and he has shown that he can play the 6th man role effectively in Memphis.
I think JR Smith would be ideal on this team…he plays off the ball, can drop 40 when he gets, and he already knows his role…he would be tall Ben Gordon.
Until we get a tagline, yfbb=your friendly Bogans blogger.
First of all, the Pacers will never give up Brandon Rush for the pieces you suggested. That would be stupid. The same can be said for Martell Webster. He’s the only perimeter perimeter option that the Wolves have. They will certainly not give him up for the pices that you suggested. Giving up Omer Asik is stupid because it is extremely difficult to find a big man with a skill set like his. Anyways, what you are saying is a pipe dream anyways.
by Jeffrey Thompson on Feb 4, 2011 12:20 PM CST reply actions
What is a pipe dream?
I believe in The Bogans Prophecy.
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 4, 2011 2:21 PM CST up reply actions
Fucking awesome game
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pipe_Mania
A true friend stabs you in the front - Oscar Wilde
No, that's a Pipe Crazy.
believes in the Keith Bogans Prophecy [12-0]
3 point champ.
The Bulls should consider bringing back Craig Hodges. I’m sure he’s still down in Park Forest in the co-ops.
Shout-out to PF!
And my old hometown co-ops. Naturally, we all loved Craig Hodges. I played basketball with his nephew, Jason, who would pretty much kill us all but never took the next step like his Uncle. Nice guy, though.
by Brooklyn Bulls on Feb 5, 2011 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
He's too short
"I love you, mommy!" - Joakim Noah
Shooting Guard
Sg is obviously the problem in the Bulls starting lineup. I have been saying I think Mayo is the player that could turn the Bulls into legit contenders. What you want in an sg for the Bulls is a guy that doesn’t need the ball but can shoot the three when Rose kicks the ball out. Noah should be back soon, and that makes the Bulls’ front court probably top 3 in basketball. Rose has turned into what I consider to be the front runner for MVP. Deng has played a perfect supporting role at sf this year. If they can add a reliable sg that can shoot the three and occasionally create their own shot, I say watch out for the Bulls.
Ball Chat - Episode 19 - Bosh Pit - 2/3/11
Irreverent, informative, entertaining. A welcomed curveball to mainstream watered down NBA analysis.
What makes you think OY Mayo doesn't need the ball...
Or that he can consistently shoot the 3 as a spot up player?
Until we get a tagline, yfbb=your friendly Bogans blogger.
I like Mayo, I just don't see how he's going to be available
1. The Griz are close to the playoffs, and losing him would hurt their chance at playoff revenue. Which is a big deal to them.
2. It would take a lot to get him, thus creating holes elsewhere.
3. There are a variety of questions about him, both on court and off, that at least give me some pause.
BullsTwo > Back up and running!
sam said the "character issue" is definitely a deal breaker
but he’s an old coot so who knows
"Everyone loves it when the guy everyone loves tells how the guy everyone hates is a big pussy." -cayal
by paddyfairview on Feb 4, 2011 5:23 PM CST up reply actions
What's the story with James Harden?
Every time I see him play he looks like he has a lot of promise, but he can’t get ahead of Sefolosha in the rotation.
I don't know.
Nobody knows.
believes in the Keith Bogans Prophecy [12-0]
by Prevenge on Feb 5, 2011 1:00 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Nobody knows, but I hear he gets together with Brewer and Korver and cries a lot.
BullsTwo > Back up and running!
by Sports2 on Feb 5, 2011 7:53 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Ha. Exactly.
It’s as though OKC, with their personnel and their scheme, doesn’t even want any offense from the 2guard…while the Bulls are dying for just a little more. If they could get it done, OKC and the Bulls seem like natural trading partners. Of course, it still comes down to what would they want from Chicago? Their depth would become our starter…and we can’t give back equal value in return.
OKC is a crap defensive team
and Harden only perpetuates that issue. Also he generally just loafs about the 3-point line hoping for an open jumper rather than play an active role in the offense. Looking at the FG%, it’s evident that Thabo picks better spots for his scoring than Harden as well.
West Coast Assassination Missions:
Clippers: Mission Accomplished
Warriors:
Trail Blazers:
Jazz:
Hornets:
by Dr. Handsome, D.D.S. on Feb 5, 2011 11:39 AM CST up reply actions
i can't understand why people don't get this
harden is better than you’re saying, though. he can d up, and he’s “more talented” than sefolosha (duh, 3rd pick vs 13th pick!), but thabo is fine w/ being underutilized offensively (yes, it’s true!) and letting durant and westbrook do it all. harden would probably be “fine” with it and starting, but he’d also find his game diminished in the current situation, like it is at the end of games now… plus he will always be a better offensive player than thabo, which is well suited for the “spark off the bench” role now.
just like sefolosha helps the teams’ defensive tone by starting. if he could ever learn to knock down the 3, he’d be a more athletic battier with a handle, and he’d probably always and forever be an nba starter (and/or finisher). smart player.
The name of the team is ARIZONA DIAMONDBACKS - "I tried to convince them that what they were doing was an aberration, an imbecility, a stupidity without name"
hasheem thabeet would like me to inform you that draft spot is not always indicative of talent
"Everyone loves it when the guy everyone loves tells how the guy everyone hates is a big pussy." -cayal
by paddyfairview on Feb 8, 2011 10:38 PM CST up reply actions
hinrich
lets just grab captain kirk back from the wizards
While I like the thought of Kirk back, I really would like a taller SG than the Cap.
Boom! Asik, Asik, Asik the room.
Rush...
I do like Courtney Lee but out of your senerio I think I would prefer Brandon Rush from the Pacers. I just think he’s more athletic & he’s a bigger longer 2 guard then Lee is.
Hinrich
Hindsight is 20/20 and all, but it’s sort of funny how Kirk sort of fits into what this team could use right now. They need another good ballhandler in the backcourt and he’s a much better option than Bogans at SG. He’s a good team defender that would do well in Thibodeau’s system.
I know it’s impossible to bring him back now and people have some odd hate for the guy here, but he’s actually having a pretty good year in Washington despite that team sucking.
I think people hated Heinrich for the same reason they hate/hated Deng
His Contract
No longer believes in the Bogans Prophecy
Don't blame him, blame management for that.
They need a consistent shooter, and if the Cap is traded, he’s going to another playoff contender.
We only hated him because he was 9 million dollars a year for our backup PG
also he couldn’t hit a layup to save his life and spent a lot of time dribbling in circles
CDR and Courtney Lee: just two players the Bulls could have at SG this year.
RIP Keith Bogans Prophecy [12-1]
i like the 9 million better
"Everyone loves it when the guy everyone loves tells how the guy everyone hates is a big pussy." -cayal
by paddyfairview on Feb 9, 2011 1:39 PM CST up reply actions
Did Keith Bogans, Kurt Thomas, CJ Watson, and Brian Scalabrine give it to you?
Because that is where it went.
Pat Riley is the devil.
we could sign all those guys except CJ no matter what since they're on minimums
so yeah, i like CJ watson and kyle korver better than kirk
"Everyone loves it when the guy everyone loves tells how the guy everyone hates is a big pussy." -cayal
by paddyfairview on Feb 9, 2011 7:29 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah I was stretching the truth a bit
But technically they’re not on minimums.
Pat Riley is the devil.
by Poloplaya14 on Feb 10, 2011 12:13 AM CST up reply actions

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