Bulls 'zeroing in' on Hamilton
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 9, 2011 10:50 PM CST
Email
PrintHey, not bad if it happens, but this line is a bit concerning to those who wish the Bulls would rather go for, ya know, the best player they could:
Sources said the Bulls never offered the full, four-year midlevel exception of roughly $20.5 million to Richardson, citing luxury-tax concerns.
Meanwhile, the Celtics just traded junk to New Orleans to give David West a three-year deal.
Again, if the Bulls sign Hamilton, that's an interesting and fortunate move. But the idea that they're constraining themselves because of future tax payments will always be disconcerting, especially in the context of them trying to keep up with (or stay ahead of) fellow contenders.
[Forgot to mention: Bulls target (unless it wasn't because they didn't get him) Vince Carter is close to deal with Mavericks]
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What's the over-under
on the number of times wee-un has come back to the site disappointed because his “fuck rondo” comment didn’t get rec’d a bunch of times? I’m guessing 6.
by tomas21 on Dec 10, 2011 8:38 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
That means you should rec it
Rose decides not to go 1-on-2 and I was thinking, "what are you doing?! You've got the numbers!" -Zach Harper, Daily Dime Live
please flying spaghetti monster please let us be one of the teams dwight can talk to, amen
inb4 lakers, nets, heat
"And thank you to God for making me an Atheist." - Ricky Gervais
by MichaelClutchtree on Dec 9, 2011 10:55 PM CST reply actions
can't trade Noah until 1/15
No Bulls Fault
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"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 9, 2011 10:56 PM CST up reply actions
its friday night yfbb is probably getting hammered.
See the most important parts are the ones that are unseen
See the wings don't make you fly and the crown don't make you king
It comes from an epic fanpost where the person kept sayin, no bulls fault
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
by J Theory on Dec 9, 2011 11:01 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Blog a Bull: No Bulls fault
The posts for months afterwards were hilarious.
"We wish Jordan were 7-feet, but he isn't. There just wasn't a center available. What can you do? Jordan isn't going to turn this franchise around. I wouldn't ask him to. He's a very good offensive player, but not an overpowering offensive player." Rod Thorn, then Bulls general manager, after drafting Michael Jordan
by AerialAssault on Dec 10, 2011 12:28 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, I have to think they would talk if they could
But ORL can’t be interested without Noah coming back.
Also, getting Howard would be contingent on him not demanding the full MLE, so the Bulls can avoid the tax (joking…sort of).
by hitlesswonder on Dec 9, 2011 10:59 PM CST up reply actions
Do you think the Magic would be willing to wait for a Bulls package?
Or are they at the point where they want to get this thing done before the season starts to avoid a Melo-drama situation
by BearDownChiTown on Dec 9, 2011 11:00 PM CST up reply actions
If it's the best offer I don't see why not
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
by J Theory on Dec 9, 2011 11:03 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I imagine they'll sell more tickets if they wait
as long as fans there have the hope of keeping him, they’ll stick around.
After the trade…well…who knows, but if they trade before the season Orl will probably give them a collective “meh”
If Howard doesn't want to come here then screw him.
How many championships does Paul, James, Melo, Bosh, D Will and Amare have combined?…… 0. The writing is on the wall Bulls OKC for the next & years and they know it
"Shit just got real" - anorexorcist.
and the thing is they all seem to be very close friends
conspiracy anyone?
How many championships do Rose and Durant have combined?
I love it when the the narrative-chasing intuition monkeys get involved.
-Brian Burke, Advanced NFL Stats
And the others won't? I'd say James and Bosh have, at worst, as good a chance as Rose and Durant at capturing
some championships over the next couple seasons.
I love it when the the narrative-chasing intuition monkeys get involved.
-Brian Burke, Advanced NFL Stats
Durant and Rose are a lot younger than that group of players.
They have a different mentality it seems. That group just seems like a bunch of bitchess IMO
"Shit just got real" - anorexorcist.
Those bitches have actually been to the Finals. This is such a boring argument.
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 10, 2011 12:12 AM CST up reply actions
I don't expect them to beat Miami unless everything that can go right for Chicago does
Is Rose really going to get that much better he can overcome James and Wade? Are Noah and Boozer going to be healthy after a compressed season? Is Deng going to be even standing? Will the bench mob be as effective defensively? Will the players listen to Thibs and his aggressive demands?
People keep acting like this is analogous to the Bulls-Pistons scenario. It isn’t. Things move much quicker in today’s NBA, you don’t just magically move from round to round. Either you’re lucky like the Mavs and you can hang around for years before finally breaking through or you’re the Celtics/Heat/Pistons and catch fire for a few seasons. Or you can be the Lakers and always be good no matter what.
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 10, 2011 12:20 AM CST up reply actions
Dude everything went wron last year.
Rose played like shit. I give MIA props, but he played like shit. Boozer had turf toe and Noah was hurt too. Korver shot like Bogans and Thibs got out coached by Spo.
We have a better SG and I doubt Noah, Boozer and Rose play like shit again. And trust me Spo aint out coaching Thibs ever again.
"Shit just got real" - anorexorcist.
Miami
is aggressively making themselves better, they now have Finals experience, and they have a year of playing together.
The Bulls are making excuses why they shouldn’t sign a third-tier player and are waiting for someone serviceable who is desperate enough to take the minimum. They are too passive and too cheap to make a bold move needed to keep themselves in the conversation with the elite teams.
Rose played like shit in the Finals because he had nobody to help him and because the Heat have perhaps the best perimeter defense in the league. Nothing has changed on the Bulls end of that, but the Heat’s defense just got even better.
NBA2K says
7.
Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.
by hedonism bot on Dec 10, 2011 2:14 AM CST up reply actions
a couple things i'd like us to discuss
1) Rip Hamilton vs Jason Richardson and the MLE situation. I don’t like the Org’s cheapness at all. And I like Richardson more than Hamilton (although Hamilton is better at creating his own offense). However, I do like Hamilton for two years much more than Richardson for four on essentially the same amount of money per year.
2) Jamal Crawford. If the Bulls are still looking for a sign and trade with Jamal Crawford, how does the starting lineup look? Crawford or Hamilton? And if the org is this committed to no luxury tax, how much money (in player salaries) do they plan on giving back to Atlanta? We should not blow up the bench for Crawford.
3) Should the Bulls bring one on: Luther Head or Keith Bogans?
rip vs jason
both are about equal to me, very different players. I think its ridiculous the org had a chance at both and decides not to pursue it, mainly because i think not utilizing the full mle is wasting it. However, if thats the stipulation (i agree that either nor both would put the bulls over the top) then the cheaper one is the best. In this scenerio, id pick the shorter contract
2) Rip starts, he can do both things, defend and score, and you can set an offense to him. Crawford can lead a second unit on his own, and arguably the defense would be better (cj/brewer/taj/asik) around crawford to allow him to just go crazy. The biggest flaw in the second unit was not having rose to round out the offense, crawford becomes that guy.
I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!
If the Bulls are getting Rip, I would rather have Crawford than JRich...
But if it’s just one of the three, I take JRich. I saw a tweet that said the Bulls were trying to sign someone and working out a sign and trade for someone else. Crawford AND Rip would be awesome.
THEO!
by wrigleyrocker12 on Dec 9, 2011 11:03 PM CST up reply actions
hello championship?
question is who would you give up for the sign and trade?
Korver/CJ/pick or Brewer/pick?
See the most important parts are the ones that are unseen
See the wings don't make you fly and the crown don't make you king
Korver/CJ/pick...
The Cubs now have two guys who can do exactly what Korver does and then some, and Crawford could always play point, and if the Bulls are a little reluctant to do that, they can always pick up someone for the vet minimum I’m sure.
THEO!
by wrigleyrocker12 on Dec 9, 2011 11:07 PM CST up reply actions
Point is...
If you’re going to have Korver AND Crawford in the bench mob, opposing guards will go nuts.
THEO!
by wrigleyrocker12 on Dec 9, 2011 11:08 PM CST up reply actions
Crawford can learn from thibs he's able to move his feet.
Korver on the other hand his footwork when defending.. It’s like he’s walking on wet cement. but good point. lol
See the most important parts are the ones that are unseen
See the wings don't make you fly and the crown don't make you king
I'm sure he meant bulls lmao.
See the most important parts are the ones that are unseen
See the wings don't make you fly and the crown don't make you king
Shit, both teams have been in my news this week...
It’s late, and I’m tired.
THEO!
by wrigleyrocker12 on Dec 9, 2011 11:12 PM CST up reply actions
The Cubs are loading up on 3pt shooters?
I know I haven’t followed sabermetrics and baseball anywhere near as much as I used to, but damn, Theo must really be on the cutting edge.
I love it when the the narrative-chasing intuition monkeys get involved.
-Brian Burke, Advanced NFL Stats
by snley on Dec 9, 2011 11:11 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Let the man do his work!
3 point shooters>Alfonso Soriano.
THEO!
by wrigleyrocker12 on Dec 9, 2011 11:12 PM CST up reply actions
what he meant is that its harder to hit kyle korver shooting a basketball
than rodrigo lopez throwing a baseball
...and we're back
by paddyfairview on Dec 9, 2011 11:23 PM CST up reply actions
bogans, he can shoot the three sometimes and play decent defese
honestly though, why sign J Rich to a 4 year deal? simple…the man is already 31 years old! Me no want him at the age of 34.
Crawford? if he wants to play for the bulls,then he should sign to a MLE and then the bulls can easily trade off korver and another player to match salaries…there, problem solved.
maybe KC should just lie to us
say they didn’t want to give Richardson 4 years, not this tax nonsense
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 9, 2011 11:02 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, not sure why the org would talk about tax
Even if it’s the truth, there are other ways to spin not giving a 30+ year old guy 4 years.
by JSB on Dec 9, 2011 11:03 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
Smoke Screen
They’re not giving out any Thornton or Butler type deals, and I’m glad because both players were overpaid. Look at what is supposed to be going back in these deals, some combination of Korver/Brewer and CJ/Bogans. You don’t have any big man rumors out in trades.
I doubt both Korver and Brewer are traded, one stays, my hope is Brewer. So I think that maxs out to about $9 mil you can use on a S&T.
My hope is that by the end of the weekend, the Bulls have sent Korver/Watson/Bogans to ATL for Crawford and Rip has been signed with the MLE.
by Ceasaleo on Dec 10, 2011 7:07 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
that'd be cool
Though wouldn’t Crawford be potentially overpaid? Who cares if we have an overpaid player on our roster? The Mavs had about 5 of them
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 10, 2011 10:11 AM CST up reply actions
yes
the goal isnt to create the most properly paid roster in the league, its to win.
Death by automirotic asphyxiation
I'd rather they slightly over pay for Crawford
In that type of S&T, especially if we get Rip on board first. I don’t think they are scared to pay, I think they want to be smart about it. Crawford at $10 mil / year, no. Crawford at $8 mil / year, yes. In both cases he’s overpaid, but one is more fiscally responsible.
by Ceasaleo on Dec 10, 2011 11:42 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Question 2) From the KC article...
Before Hamilton’s buyout, league sources said the Bulls talked to Jamal Crawford about the mid-level exception. The former Bull made clear he sought more money via a sign-and-trade, and the Bulls declined. The Nets, Pacers and Hornets have expressed interest in him.
I guess this means they don’t want to pay him more via a sign and trade?
by BearDownChiTown on Dec 9, 2011 11:02 PM CST up reply actions
it could be that
or they didn’t want to give up anyone (like Brewer)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 9, 2011 11:03 PM CST up reply actions
either way
does that mean Crawford to the Bulls is dead or just stalled?
by BearDownChiTown on Dec 9, 2011 11:04 PM CST up reply actions
i suppose it's still possible
does adding Rip mean Brewer is more expendable? The money really shouldn’t matter
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 9, 2011 11:07 PM CST up reply actions
the way it's framed in the quote
it makes it seem like the reason “the Bulls declined” was because “the former Bull made clear he sought more money via sign and trade.” Maybe I’m reading into it too much though. And I definitely think that acquiring Rip makes Brewer expendable but its not up to me.
by BearDownChiTown on Dec 9, 2011 11:11 PM CST up reply actions
I think it was about the length of the deals for Rich and Craw.
Rip is gonna get 2 years and 10 milli. I’m Sure J Rich wanted 4 years. Hamilton is going to age like Ray Allen and Richardson is gonna age like Finely IMO.
"Shit just got real" - anorexorcist.
and it's also directly in conflict about the richardson thing
unless crawford was also willing to take fewer years? i don’t get it.
Look
I didn’t want to offend anyone by saying the "f" word or generalizing my statement to any particular sex by saying "gays" or lesbians" or "bi’s" so "homos" is the most "politically correct" term. I’m just trying to be more tact in a tactless blog.
by Hindut Patrol on Feb 15, 2011 2:51 PM EST
I wouldn't pay him more than the MLE
Let him go find more
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
by J Theory on Dec 9, 2011 11:05 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I think my limit for Crawford would be something like 21M/3yrs
by BearDownChiTown on Dec 9, 2011 11:06 PM CST up reply actions
caron butler got more than that
and he can’t even stay on the court
Death by automirotic asphyxiation
not the only guy getting paid
look at what these teams are offering their restricted 2 guards. marcus thornton got 5/40 and thaddeus young got 5/43. and these were initial offers. grant hill got 7 million to stay in phoenix for another year. maybe 7 is reasonable, but based on what the market has been, i doubt he signs for 7 per. especially when he’s been linked to 3 other teams with cap space.
Death by automirotic asphyxiation
Thornton
is young and showed a lot of potential in his time with the Kings. Also, the Kings are a small market team, not a very attractive free agent destination atm, and needs to shell out some money to make it to the bare minimum cap. Thaddeus Young is not a SG, more of a PF/maybe SF. He’s also very young with lots of growing room and was a candidate for 6th man last year. 5/43 was a steal. Grant Hill 1 yr/7M is reasonable for the fact that its only a 1 year deal. I’m not saying Crawford wouldn’t be able to sign with a team like the Pacers for 3yrs/30M+, I’m only saying that for the Bulls, anything over 3yrs/21M would be a bad contract.
by BearDownChiTown on Dec 10, 2011 3:14 AM CST up reply actions
right that makes sense
i just don’t see it based on the contracts that have been doled out to date (crawford’s not gonna get 5 years, but i would think the average is going to be somewhere north of 8).
yeah young is def not an sg, wrote that pretty late.
Death by automirotic asphyxiation
If the Bulls are willing to use the MLE on Crawford
but not on Richardson, I’m fine with that. Though I like Richardson, i’m much less confident in his future prospects than in Jamal’s
I have a soft spot for Head
We pretty much know what Bogans is. Question is, does Head have a higher ceiling at this point or do we know enough about him as well?
aw I shoulda looked before posting...
you beat me to it by a good 7 hours
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I think deep down we all have a soft spot for Head
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bulls zeroing in on hamilton?
isnt it more, hamilton zeroing in on the bulls
cuz u know….the bulls are just letting the free agents come to them
I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!
does our team F/O have that much of an ego now that every has to come to us to join?
oh, wait..
See the most important parts are the ones that are unseen
See the wings don't make you fly and the crown don't make you king
This is like the Bulls' front office ultimate dream
Being able to low ball guys, and having a reason for it: “You want to win, don’t you???”
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 9, 2011 11:05 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
it does seem the Bulls are the only cheap big market team in the league
Kind of disturbing.
by JSB on Dec 9, 2011 11:07 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions 2 recs
It's so sad to be honest.
See the most important parts are the ones that are unseen
See the wings don't make you fly and the crown don't make you king
I'd rather have Rip for 2 than JR for 4
That JR contract has a good chance of being dead money in years 3 and 4. The difference between the 2 isn’t that huge in my opinion. Last year JR didn’t do much besides sit outside the 3 point arc. Rip isn’t as good a 3 point shooter, but he’s better at almost everything else. Plus, theres the chance that playing for a winner rejuvenates him. I don’t see that chance with JR.
by JSB on Dec 9, 2011 11:02 PM CST via iPhone app reply actions
I could see it
rejuvenating either, but definitely agree that it’s possible that Rip will be a different guy here.
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"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 9, 2011 11:03 PM CST up reply actions
when i saw hamilton play in detroit this yr, he was not motivated...AT ALL
i think thatll change playing with a contender
exactly. how is a two year deal not preferable given that our core only has 4 or so years together?
unless the 4 year player is MUCH better, rather take on a tradeable 2 year MLE deal
...and we're back
by paddyfairview on Dec 9, 2011 11:10 PM CST up reply actions
agreed. I want to see the Bulls get this done
consider me in the Hamilton camp
2 years is important
I think the other thing being overlooked is that a two-year deal coincides with a number of other players on the Bulls roster expiring (KK, Brew and CJ). Next season they can all be moved in a package for a team looking for expirings. Assuming Rip gets around $5M, that’s $17M in expiring contracts. That could net a legit answer at SG.
I’m giving Bulls management the benefit of the doubt, but I think they realize that the window for the Bulls to compete extends beyond next season. Fingers crossed.
by paxson43 on Dec 10, 2011 1:32 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
No
The JJ ship has sailed. Every year that passes makes it even less likely. The last thing you want is to only have the final 4 years and 89 million of his contract.
Team has options on Korver, Brewer, and CJ for next season making them expirings this season as well
I love it when the the narrative-chasing intuition monkeys get involved.
-Brian Burke, Advanced NFL Stats
quick amnesty question
cant we amnesty jrich after 2 years if he’s that big of a train wreck at that point? i know you can’t amnesty guys you’ve traded for, but does that count for free agent signings post-CBA as well?
http://ExtendtheGame.blogspot.com
no, i think its jsut the player before the NEW CBA
i remember reading that somewhere o nth pdf file that was posted
yep
can only amnesty contracts that you had on your roster at the start of this season… that were signed before the new cba
Look
I didn’t want to offend anyone by saying the "f" word or generalizing my statement to any particular sex by saying "gays" or lesbians" or "bi’s" so "homos" is the most "politically correct" term. I’m just trying to be more tact in a tactless blog.
by Hindut Patrol on Feb 15, 2011 2:51 PM EST
nope, he got signed after the new CBA was approved so he is inelligible
...and we're back
by paddyfairview on Dec 9, 2011 11:28 PM CST up reply actions
thanks yall
that’s what i thought but i just was trying for some wishful thinking
http://ExtendtheGame.blogspot.com
well yeah
but they were more worried about that totally likely CBA scenario where it forces them to trade Derrick Rose
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 10, 2011 10:13 AM CST up reply actions
Apparently the NBA really does need an off-season. This is not a good look
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 9, 2011 11:06 PM CST up reply actions
lol all these fiascos could have been avoided with a proper offseason
but its much more fun this way
...and we're back
by paddyfairview on Dec 9, 2011 11:11 PM CST up reply actions
Can no one agree on anything there
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"Oh Dilfer, give me the strength...
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good lord, anyone else see Shawn Marion's hair?
Did he lose a bet?
by JSB on Dec 9, 2011 11:08 PM CST via iPhone app reply actions
They can add all the washed up
crappy centers in the league, I mean it worked out sooo well for them in stablizing the position. I’m sure Eddy Curry and Jermaine O’Neal will lock down the paint for…oh 3 weeks before Eddy eats Jermaine because he looked like a giant chocolate easter bunny
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"Oh Dilfer, give me the strength...
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dont forget juwan howard is trying to re-up too
...and we're back
by paddyfairview on Dec 9, 2011 11:16 PM CST up reply actions
oh god.. how old is he now?
See the most important parts are the ones that are unseen
See the wings don't make you fly and the crown don't make you king
65 years old
closing in on full social security benefits
old enough to have seen the transition from Bird to Jordan to Iverson to Lebron
in person and on the court for most of it
WCG's Resident Nickelback and Boy Band fan
Also rated Worst WCG Blogger by Dr. Steven Schweickert's extensive "Total BR" (Blogger Rating)
"Oh Dilfer, give me the strength...
to be as bad a WCG Contributor as you are an announcer/authority on anything. Peace be with you. " (JoetheBoss)
im sure he'll give them a solid half-season before the grind reduces him to dust
seriously tho he should work for free there for a decade after that 23 mil he got in his last shit season
...and we're back
by paddyfairview on Dec 9, 2011 11:15 PM CST up reply actions
yeah i'm just gonna go ahead
and remind everyone of this.
Look
I didn’t want to offend anyone by saying the "f" word or generalizing my statement to any particular sex by saying "gays" or lesbians" or "bi’s" so "homos" is the most "politically correct" term. I’m just trying to be more tact in a tactless blog.
by Hindut Patrol on Feb 15, 2011 2:51 PM EST
by Jaina on Dec 9, 2011 11:18 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
god
there was sooooo much potential there….if only his head wasn’t so far up his ass
WCG's Resident Nickelback and Boy Band fan
Also rated Worst WCG Blogger by Dr. Steven Schweickert's extensive "Total BR" (Blogger Rating)
"Oh Dilfer, give me the strength...
to be as bad a WCG Contributor as you are an announcer/authority on anything. Peace be with you. " (JoetheBoss)
Oneal and Curry are not as good as Taj and Asik
we win the back-up bigs battle!
love this...
netw3rk @netw3rk 10 mins Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Sources: Dwight had a sandwich. Source: No he didn’t. Source: It was a ham sandwich. Source: He’s a vegan.
THEO!
by wrigleyrocker12 on Dec 9, 2011 11:16 PM CST reply actions 6 recs
lol
WCG's Resident Nickelback and Boy Band fan
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"Oh Dilfer, give me the strength...
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if that report about Crawford considering Miami is true
i just think the Bulls should find out. if anything, trade for him to block him from becoming a heat.
i really don't think it is
they literally have nothing to offer. what are they going to trade to the hawks? seems clear to me that he won’t sign for even the MLE let alone the vet’s min or whatever shit he’d have to take from miami.
Look
I didn’t want to offend anyone by saying the "f" word or generalizing my statement to any particular sex by saying "gays" or lesbians" or "bi’s" so "homos" is the most "politically correct" term. I’m just trying to be more tact in a tactless blog.
by Hindut Patrol on Feb 15, 2011 2:51 PM EST
he wants money apparently, so...
i woudl think the pacers would offer him 3-4 years avg around 8 mill a yr
seems about as likely as cp3 getting traded to knicks
...and we're back
by paddyfairview on Dec 9, 2011 11:26 PM CST up reply actions
Unless it's a one year deal to chase a ring.
I doubt it happens. Crawford’s never gotten a huge deal like most ring-chasers.
what report, link?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 10, 2011 10:14 AM CST up reply actions
NBA Finals here we come!
I hope I can say I did my best, achieved a lot and won a couple of world championships. - Michael Jordan, circa 1984.
This Howard situation is very, very strange
Everyone involved is saying something different
Recovering...
What are the options for sign-and-trade with Atlanta for Crawford?
Brewer is at $4.7
Korver at $5.00
Bogans at $1.7
CJ at $3.4
Pargo at $1.2
Pargo and Bogans are non-guaranteed, no?
Could we do CJ, Pargo and Bogans for Crawford? Would ATL do that as a pure salary dump?
problem is, what makes you think Atalnta wants to do a sign and trade?
Especially at the dollars we’d have to give Jamal. Plus the cheap Bulls would still have the problem of having that contract on the books in three years
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 9, 2011 11:37 PM CST up reply actions
They're gonna lose him anyways
They could use a guy like CJ, a cheap guard who’s good enough to play 15-20 minutes without embarassing himself.
Pat Riley is the devil.
And what would they get out of that last trade?
They’re gonna do that just to help us out?
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 9, 2011 11:38 PM CST up reply actions
Very poor
I hope I can say I did my best, achieved a lot and won a couple of world championships. - Michael Jordan, circa 1984.
Idk, seems like a stretch
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 9, 2011 11:52 PM CST up reply actions
Sure, just spitballing here
Do you think the Hawks would want Brewer? I don’t really think they need either guy that much.
Of all the free agents
Crawford doesn’t seem worth it for the $ vs. production.
To answer your questions – Atl doesn’t need a salary dump of Crawford b/c he is a free agent. Brewer, Korver, and Watson are non-guaranteed for next year. I’m not sure how close we have to be in salary, but it will depend on how much Crawford wants to figure out what we need to trade for him.
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 9, 2011 11:39 PM CST up reply actions
How much salary are the Bulls adding if they go 3/$21m and ship out Watson and cut the other vets?
It seems too good to be true, but I’d love to add Crawford and a 2 guard.
they are gonna want a big
im gonna say it now, any sign and trade deal comes along, no matter who the player, one of asik or taj must go…and by that merit i am always offering taj. I feel asik can come down and play the 4, hes skilled enough…but taj can never go up to guard 5s.
So whether it be oj mayo, crawford, nick young, arron afflalo ….taj one of korver/brewer and filler will get it done.
I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!
Aren't sign and trades usually just made with filler?
The Celtics just traded Jermaine O’Neal’s corpse for David West in a sign-n-trade. The Hawks aren’t going to keep Crawford anyways, might as well get something for him.
No way the Bulls have to give up legit assets like Asik or Taj.
i remember being kind of angry with this:
The Bulls, who will sign Pippen to a deal worth $67.2 million for five years before trading him, will get forward Roy Rogers and a second-round draft pick in return.
by obnoxious american on Dec 10, 2011 8:30 AM CST up reply actions
$5.00 for Korver?
The extra place after the decimal made me laugh. I know he can’t play D but Dang!
Or is it $5.00 in Deng moolah?
"We wish Jordan were 7-feet, but he isn't. There just wasn't a center available. What can you do? Jordan isn't going to turn this franchise around. I wouldn't ask him to. He's a very good offensive player, but not an overpowering offensive player." Rod Thorn, then Bulls general manager, after drafting Michael Jordan
by AerialAssault on Dec 10, 2011 12:42 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
C
"Shit just got real" - anorexorcist.
by illwill on Dec 9, 2011 11:39 PM CST via iPhone app reply actions
BA
say it with me CBA
WCG's Resident Nickelback and Boy Band fan
Also rated Worst WCG Blogger by Dr. Steven Schweickert's extensive "Total BR" (Blogger Rating)
"Oh Dilfer, give me the strength...
to be as bad a WCG Contributor as you are an announcer/authority on anything. Peace be with you. " (JoetheBoss)
So what exactly is our end-game here?
get marginally better (enough to get home court advantage in the first round, second if we’re lucky?) while everyone else adds pieces?
I don’t get it.
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 9, 2011 11:42 PM CST reply actions
Keep in mind our depth last year basically bought us an ECF appearance.
We played Pacers and Hawks. Miami played Knicks and Celtics. That matters. And, we played much better than the 4-1 result. The officiating was horrendous. We were only a few opportune shots away from making it a serious series. We don’t need a ridiculous signing to be a contender. We have lots of young players. The clock is ticking on Wade. We’re not the desperate team here. They are.
Keep telling yourself that
They still won in 5 and looked like the better team throughout the series. They’ve also added Shane Battier who is a good player.
You mean keep reminding myself of facts? Sure.
Not sure if you watched the games or just look at the box score. You don’t remember how we dominated them in Game 1. How they stole Game 5 with absurd flops?
Miami is not desperate, and we are the ones who need to catch them They won the series.
That being said, I think adding Hamilton (assuming it goes through) is a pretty big improvement over Bogans. And we aren’t losing our depth. Hell, reports are saying we’re even bringing back Scalabrine and Big Sexy.
you have to also consider if rose, asik, and noah are improved this yr
ill def say rose, but who knows, maybe asik got better
You'd also have to assume
Bosh, Wade & James will have improved this year as well. At least with understanding how to play with one another better. They didn’t figure it out and were 2 games away from being NBA Champs.
I hope I can say I did my best, achieved a lot and won a couple of world championships. - Michael Jordan, circa 1984.
*two wins
I hope I can say I did my best, achieved a lot and won a couple of world championships. - Michael Jordan, circa 1984.
What piece do you propose we add this offseason to make the jump?
Rip on $5m/2yrs is a solid addition that retains some flexibility to make something happen in the future. There just aren’t that many great options this offseason besides the possibility of Howard, which is unlikely.
by BearDownChiTown on Dec 9, 2011 11:49 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Well I mean it's obvious the Rockets were willing to trade K-Mart
Jason Richardson’s out there and might have taken the MLE if we’d offered it. What if we packaged Asik, Korver and a pick for K-Mart and then brought in David West in a S&T for Taj or something to that effect? We could’ve still gotten Rip then too.
Rose-K-Mart-Deng-Boozer-Noah with Watson-Rip-Brewer-West-Kurt Thomas off the bench would be pretty lethal.
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 9, 2011 11:53 PM CST up reply actions
damn that was off the top of my head but now I'm really thinking it would be genius
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 9, 2011 11:54 PM CST up reply actions
The Rockets were willing to trade Kevin Martin to get a top 15 player
Asik and Korver ain’t close to that. Remember they wanted Asik last year just for Courtney Lee.
They were willing to trade Martin AND Scola to get that guy.
giving them Korver, Asik and the Charlotte pick would get K-Mart.
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 9, 2011 11:56 PM CST up reply actions
You're delusional
They are already overloaded with depth. They need to trade for quality. That’s why they did a 3 for 1 and not the other way around.
I think "delusional" seems like a bit of an overstatement
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 10, 2011 12:05 AM CST up reply actions
Ok, delusional might be an overstatement
But, I’m telling you there’s no chance the Rockets do that trade.
K-Mart has a b ig contract
i dont know if we could get him
i don't think we would
that would mean a starting 5 of over 60million
Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.
by hedonism bot on Dec 10, 2011 10:26 AM CST up reply actions
Just a Reminder
Jerry Reinsdorf was making close to $50 million a year in profits from the Bulls. This number comes before the huge jump they made last season and now even have a season ticket waiting list. The new CBA will make him considerably more money over the next 6 years.
Just keep that in mind as Jerry doesn’t add pieces because he doesn’t want to pay the luxury tax like real contenders.
by Niwrad on Dec 9, 2011 11:44 PM CST reply actions 5 recs
no one is asking for an amazing 2 guard
just the best 2 guard available.
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 9, 2011 11:52 PM CST up reply actions
And that was RIP
"Shit just got real" - anorexorcist.
by illwill on Dec 9, 2011 11:53 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
isn't true
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"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 10, 2011 10:16 AM CST up reply actions 4 recs
someone is paying him $20 million
the Bulls paying someone the full MLE doesn’t jeopardize their precious flexibility. Its only determines whether or not they are willing to pay the tax.
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 9, 2011 11:56 PM CST up reply actions
They are giving RIP the MLE for 2 years according to KC
the Bulls likely will offer a two-year deal in the neighborhood of $10 million
"Shit just got real" - anorexorcist.
so why wouldn't we offer that to J-Rich? weird.
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 10, 2011 12:00 AM CST up reply actions
Extra years
Didn’t want to give 4 years to JR. Read the rest of the thread. There’s a good argument not to do that too.
I guess
if you’re trying to get out of paying the tax in two years.
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 10, 2011 12:02 AM CST up reply actions
Or if you don't want to pay a 33 year old?
Short contracts for veterans are always the better move. Why is JR so much better than Hamilton? I don’t see it.
I think JR is better, slightly younger, and a better fit for us
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 10, 2011 12:08 AM CST up reply actions
Why is he a better fit?
I used to be a big JR fan, but I wasn’t impressed with his play on the Magic last year. Seemed like he basically just stood at the 3 point line. He’s definitely not a shot creator or a ball-handler.
and Rip is? at least JR can hit the three
I’m not a huge fan of the stat, but his PER was also better by a decent amount.
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 10, 2011 12:13 AM CST up reply actions
Neither is Rip, who also has had some nagging injuries in recent years.
Maybe it’s just because I’ve seen the Pistons more frequently than the Suns/Magic but Rip just looks washed up.
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 10, 2011 12:13 AM CST up reply actions
I wasn't making the case that Rip was a creator
The way I see it Richardson is a better 3 point shooter, Hamilton has a better mid-range game and they are about equal as defenders, with maybe a slight edge to Hamilton.
Not enough of a difference in my mind to pony up an extra 2 years to a declining player.
by JSB on Dec 10, 2011 12:16 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
agreed
remember, those extra years dont only take up salary, they also take up a roster spot and rotation role.
bring in Rip, a very good player who (from what i saw last year…i had league pass so i did watch a few pistons games) is not a bad three point or mid range shooter, and CAN still create his own offense. He isn’t great at it, but he certainly isnt awful and he is sure as hell a lot better than Bogans, Brewer, and Korver are at it.
Or because you're a smart org who knows that 2 years from now...
Rips 4 year deal would be harder to unload. You do realize we’re still set up as of right now to make a fantastic trade for Howard? That only happens by signing smart contracts. Not making it rain on 3rd tier players.
we are not getting dwight howard
and even if we signed JRich, that wouldn’t hurt our chances. You are arguing for JR saving money, not flexibility.
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 10, 2011 12:06 AM CST up reply actions
How is a 2 year deal not preserve more flexibility than a 4-year deal?
Again, if JR was MUCH better than Rip, I’d agree. But I don’t think he is.
RIP is in the mold of a "Ray Allen" type.
Like to run marathons and shit on his off time and run around screens during games. Game is predicated on shooting and playing solid D. When J Rich falls off a cliff it’s gonna be Michael Finley bad.
"Shit just got real" - anorexorcist.
well someone's paying him like $65 million or whatever
we’re one of 4 NBA teams who’ve never paid the tax — EVER.
Oh yeah, can you name the last NBA champion that wasn’t in the luxury tax that year? I can’t.
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 9, 2011 11:56 PM CST up reply actions
lol read below
we’re not a suitor for Howard
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 10, 2011 12:06 AM CST up reply actions
Spurs were a tax-paying team for at least 2 of their 4 championships
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 10, 2011 12:06 AM CST up reply actions
Take this for what it's worth since it's from wiki, but the Spurs paid just under $200K in luxury tax in 2007
The other 3 championship years, they were under the threshold. Of course, doesn’t hurt that they had Duncan, Parker, and/or Ginobili on rookie deals those 3 years.
I love it when the the narrative-chasing intuition monkeys get involved.
-Brian Burke, Advanced NFL Stats
if jr smith was out there, then i would def be bitching out on JR
but as of right now, hes not and the other FA are not that stellar.
I like where your head's at.
Can’t we pay 500,000 to get him out of China? Reminds me of the movie Spy Game
"It will happen because our major-league coaching staff is more prepared than their counterparts across the field."
by louslovechild on Dec 9, 2011 11:52 PM CST up reply actions
man, what would i give to bring jr smith or even wilson chandler
damn, those guys would have been perfect for the bulls
I was actually being serious
Marc Stein was saying that there is a clause in the CBA about paying 500,000 to get them out of China. Was he joking?
"It will happen because our major-league coaching staff is more prepared than their counterparts across the field."
by louslovechild on Dec 9, 2011 11:55 PM CST up reply actions
i was reading on yahoo that there are problems with that
in terms of being allowed to be approved to be signed with any team i nthe NBA. They could buy his contract out and he wound give back all the compensation he earned. however, the problem is that he needs a letter of approval in order to be permitted to sign with any team i nthe NBA and the owner does not seem to be wantign to do that until March.
Richardson is the best SG available
And the MLE would be a fair deal for him. But it’s not just about that, it’s the fact that there is even discussion about how Jerry doesn’t want to pay the tax. I understand not giving out crap deals, but this seems more about not wanting to cut into massive profits.
Hamilton is a better defender.
And is signing for 2 years. J Rich wants 4 years. RIP will be an expiring next season and J Rich will be a bad contract big difference.
"Shit just got real" - anorexorcist.
im in the Hamilton camp. he is good-not-great at everything we were looking for
Shooting threes, creating own offense, handling/dribbling, defense, not being short
new tagline
Blog a Bull: Paying for the White Sox
by kpd on Dec 9, 2011 11:49 PM CST reply actions 8 recs
to be honest
i remember once JR saying hell trade in his WhiteSox WS for all bulls championships. basically, he cares more obut his precious whitesox more than the bulls
not news
he’s always run the Sox with a passion and the Bulls as a business
haha, well, i wouldnt know that
im a cubs fan.
But he got his damn WS
Surely now there is enough love for both (wishful thinking)
Sooooo
Have the Bulls signed Hamilton on and Rose to an extension yet?
UGH
WHY DO YOU COMMENT SO MUCH
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"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 10, 2011 10:18 AM CST up reply actions
I'll bet Howard and Rose aren't huge fans of eachother
Maybe Howard is pissed that Rose is the face of Adidas basketball now, and Howard is on the periphery. because it just does not make sense that the Bulls would not be on his list of teams that he would accept a trade to
Recovering...
True, there could be something going on there...
also the whole ‘MVP’ thing might have stung a little.
Howard wont come to Chicago because Rose would always be then man.
This is Rose’s town and always will be and D12 know that. His ego is too big to be a #2 option. If he played next to Paul or D Will he would be the man.
"Shit just got real" - anorexorcist.
I don't know about that
Howard has a bigger personality than Rose. If he came to Chicago, I think they’d get equal billing.
The city's two biggest stars (Cutler and Rose) have the personality of a shoe.
Chicago would love Howard and his constant whoring for attention.
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 10, 2011 12:07 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Well with that logic
Joakim Noah should own this town and Ozzie would still manage the WhiteSox
Hey Rose. I don't see the appeal!
Urlacher doesn't show much personality either
Ever think maybe different places prefer different personality types?
Seriously?
I hope I can say I did my best, achieved a lot and won a couple of world championships. - Michael Jordan, circa 1984.
Yes, seriously.
Especially nationally. Maybe locally Rose will always be #1, but nationally Howard would be just as big a deal.
Wasn't the comment made
referencing locally tho? And I disagree, Rose is already close to surpassing Howard’s popularity nationally, if he hasn’t already.
I hope I can say I did my best, achieved a lot and won a couple of world championships. - Michael Jordan, circa 1984.
by chicity773 on Dec 10, 2011 12:07 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I would love for Howard to come to Chicago
But what other logical reason would he not want to come here? Maybe Derrick told the rest of the superstars he can whip they’re ass? IDK
"Shit just got real" - anorexorcist.
No they won't
"Violence is not always the answer."
"Violence is the question, and the answers always YES!"
What big guy is ever really "the man" though?
Even Shaq, the most dominant, and personable big man ever had to give most of the limelight to Kobe, and then D Wade. People just relate to the guards more. They’re the guys that make the big jumps shots and shit. Wherever he goes, he won’t be the man, truly.
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 10, 2011 12:00 AM CST up reply actions
I'd say Shaq got way more limelight than Kobe when both were there.
I mean, which one starred in a movie about a genie?
Pat Riley is the devil.
by Poloplaya14 on Dec 10, 2011 12:05 AM CST up reply actions
yeah, I suppose
At the start, but as Kobe got better and better, he started to become the guy. I mean, they did choose Kobe oveer Shaq
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 10, 2011 12:06 AM CST up reply actions
Well yeah because Shaq was getting old while Kobe was entering his prime.
Pat Riley is the devil.
by Poloplaya14 on Dec 10, 2011 12:07 AM CST up reply actions
It was always Shaq and Kobe not Kobe and Shaq.
The reason why the Laker broke up was because Shaq refused to be #2. I live in Cali and that’s all they were talking about on Mason and Ireland lol.
"Shit just got real" - anorexorcist.
Alright, but Shaq is kinda the exception
He’s just a larger than life kinda character. I still say that big men have a hard time becoming the face of a team
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 10, 2011 12:11 AM CST up reply actions
Well Howard has a huge personality like Shaq does right?
I mean why else would he choose NJ and Mavs over CHI? We would keep Boozer who is his buddy and Rose. We would probably keep either Gibson or Asik along with Kover and Watson too. That is a lot better than NJ has to offer.
"Shit just got real" - anorexorcist.
by illwill on Dec 10, 2011 12:18 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
It kind of makes sense from a business perspective...
Maybe Adidas wants to keep him in a different market.
by Khalid El-Amin on Dec 10, 2011 8:48 AM CST up reply actions
More on Howard
sam_amick
Orlando PR man Joel Glass calls to say D. Howard’s agent now has permission to speak w/Lakers/Nets/Mavs about possible trade
BULLSHIT
Have you ever been to NJ in the winter? It is worse than it is here.
"It will happen because our major-league coaching staff is more prepared than their counterparts across the field."
by louslovechild on Dec 9, 2011 11:58 PM CST up reply actions
Yes, I have, and you're right.
An added disadvantage is that it’s New Jersey.
Well they are moving to brooklyn
But still, New arena. OOH AHH Seriously why is it so appealing?
"Violence is not always the answer."
"Violence is the question, and the answers always YES!"
He's ass buddies with D Will, is my understanding of the situation
Which is why I said yesterday, it would be nice if Rose expanded his NBA relationships beyond Russell Westbrook
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 10, 2011 12:01 AM CST up reply actions
Who cares? The Bulls can't trade Noah until January which means discussing a trade with Chicago would be pointless.
He’s not coming here and if he goes somewhere like Dallas then it’s all the better.
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 10, 2011 12:05 AM CST up reply actions
let him go to Dallas or LA
easier for the Bulls
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 10, 2011 12:07 AM CST up reply actions
It's December. Not like they'd have to wait a year
And even without Noah, we still can probably offer a better package than Dallas
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 10, 2011 12:07 AM CST up reply actions
And yeah, if he goes out West I really won't give a shit
If he goes to New Jersey, that would suck. Williams and Howard together prob puts them ahead of us this year
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 10, 2011 12:08 AM CST up reply actions
On paper.
I think Rose would give Williams fits and we have enough frontline depth to “contain” Howard.
"Shit just got real" - anorexorcist.
No one contains Howard
Imo, he’s the best player n the league. Even if you slow him down offensively, he’ll still win you games on defense. And Williams is a terrific pg when healthy. Right there with Rose at the top pf the league.
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 10, 2011 12:16 AM CST up reply actions
In fact, I'll even go out on a limb and say, that depending on the parts that surrounded those two
(as long as they’re not completely dreadful), they’ll win the title this year.
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 10, 2011 12:17 AM CST up reply actions
Have you looked at the wings on that roster?
Anthony Morrow and Sasha Vujacic with Travis Outlaw available to plays some 3 for fuck’s sake
I love it when the the narrative-chasing intuition monkeys get involved.
-Brian Burke, Advanced NFL Stats
I know, which just goes to show how strong I think those guys are
plus, Morrow and Vujacic could be a great fit on a team like that. All you really need is to surround Williams and Howard with shooters, and another big that can bang a little. Maybe a wing defender.
If the Heat can get to the Finals with those three assholes and a whole lotta nothing, I don’t see why the Nets can’t
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 10, 2011 12:23 AM CST up reply actions
Even with Howard that's going to be a mediocre defensive team.
Miami was the 2nd best defensive team in the NBA and had a top 5 offense. No way New Jersey is going to come up with that even with Williams and Howard.
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 10, 2011 12:24 AM CST up reply actions
yeah, but that's a stupid way to look at it
What were the Heat’s offensive and defensive statistics the year before the big three came together? I’ll bet it wasn’t anywhere near 2nd best defense, and top 5 offense.
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 10, 2011 12:27 AM CST up reply actions
2 great players in the NBA changes EVERYTHING
Shit, after Williams alone came to the Nets they looked like a different team. Now you add Howard?
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 10, 2011 12:28 AM CST up reply actions
Still not enough.
Don’t underestimate defense, rebounding, chemistry, good coaching and the heart of a champion (Rose).
"Shit just got real" - anorexorcist.
Are you for real?
and the heart of a champion
by bryield on Dec 10, 2011 12:31 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Just checking
I thought you might have used a goofy cliche on purpose. I was wrong.
by bryield on Dec 10, 2011 12:34 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
My friend who's a Lakers fan tells me that shit all the time lol.
I’m drunk too.
"Shit just got real" - anorexorcist.
Well, they will have the best rebounder and defensive player in the league
so they’re off to a great start
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 10, 2011 12:33 AM CST up reply actions
Our frontline is the least of our worries.
Teams would kill to have Noah, Boozer, Gibson and Asik on the frontline.
"Shit just got real" - anorexorcist.
I love our front line. What are you talking about?
I’m not doing a Bulls vs. Nets thing here. The Bulls will still be good
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 10, 2011 12:36 AM CST up reply actions
My point is that they added James and Bosh to a team that already had Wade, Haslem, Chalmers and Joel Anthony.
That’s a defensive core you can ride to a title. New Jersey will potentially add Dwight, probably Hedo, to Deron and a bunch of one-dimensional wings. That’s not an elite defense. I’ll take Miami or Chicago, hell I might even take New York over the Nets at this point.
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 10, 2011 12:32 AM CST up reply actions
Dude, Joel Anthony was a FUCKING JOKE before the big three got there
THAT IS MY POINT. great players make other players better. they may not have joel Anthony, but they’ll have someone like him.
And I’m not guranteeing they’ll win the title, i just said that more to make a point. The point is, they’ll be REALLY good.
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 10, 2011 12:35 AM CST up reply actions
You're right
It’s the exact same argument people made about the Heat. Except they argued that the Heat wouldn’t be able to find guys like James Posey and PJ Brown like the Celtics did.
Ding Ding Ding
And it’s the same argument people made about the Celtics when their big three came together. Are you sensing a pattern here?
If the Nets put those two guys together, they’ll find more than enough to compete for a title next year. Albeit, they’ll have very stiff competition (including the Bulls)
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 10, 2011 12:38 AM CST up reply actions
Again, part of the problem was underestimating what was already there
The Celtics had a burgeoning All Star PG in Fuck Rondo, a strong defensive C in Perkins, Posey, PJ Brown, Leon Powe, on and on. These were all solid rotation players at worst. The Nets roster is littered with players who are barely hanging onto their spot in the NBA
I love it when the the narrative-chasing intuition monkeys get involved.
-Brian Burke, Advanced NFL Stats
Well, if everyone underestimated those guys
and the Heat guys, what makes you think the Nets guys can’t be underestimated?
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 10, 2011 12:43 AM CST up reply actions
Because the Nets players outside DWill and Humphries are proven crap
They’re a load of vets whose best years were the quality of borderline starters and have little chance of returning to those levels. The Celtics and Heat had young players still developing and older vets who were far better even past their primes than the Nets players were at their best.
I love it when the the narrative-chasing intuition monkeys get involved.
-Brian Burke, Advanced NFL Stats
The pattern is when these superteams come together, there still has to be some solid talent on the roster.
Boston already had Perkins and Rondo. Not very good, but they were proven defenders. A solid if unspectacular bench of Powe, Big Baby, Tony Allen. Got lucky with the PJ Brown and Posey signings.
Miami already had Chalmers, Haslem and Anthony. Proven defenders. Signed Mike Miller.
New Jersey has Anthony Morrow and Travis Outlaw, basically the racial opposites of Kyle Korver and Andres Nocioni. Maybe they keep Kris Humphries? Maybe they’ll sign Billups off waivers? Play Hedo 35 minutes a game?
Eventually that duo becomes a title contender, but it’s not this season.
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 10, 2011 12:43 AM CST up reply actions
We're also doing some heavy speculation
Obviously I’d have to see the complete roster before I could definitively give my opinion, but I’m assuming they’ll get some decent pieces to fill out the roster. And guys like Morrow, and Humphries wouldn’t be a terrible place to start
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 10, 2011 12:45 AM CST up reply actions
So let's say they have:
Williams, Morrow, Howard, Humphries and Outlaw. They only need 3 more guys to have a solid 8 man rotation. Plus they’ll have money to spend, an open spot for a ring chasing veteran, and couldn’t they choose to amnesty Outlaw, and use that money on someone like Richardson, or Crawford?
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 10, 2011 12:48 AM CST up reply actions
but heres the thing...
what do the magic want and it seems like they want soem solid young talent. I think Humphries will get traded off as well some other role players with picks.
Doubtful
The deal would be centered around Brook Lopez and picks
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 10, 2011 12:54 AM CST up reply actions
outlaw blows
and will probably get amnestied (4 yrs/28mil left on salary). His PER last season was 8.8.
I miss Brad Miller
It's exactly one Eddie House away
from being a Finals team (seriously, does that sycophantic douche end up on every contending team or what?)
They'll be really good, but you said they'd probably be the best team in the league immediately
At which point Ozzie said you were going off the deep end. Correct me if I missed your intention, but I think you just admitted as much
And I’m not guranteeing they’ll win the title, i just said that more to make a point
I love it when the the narrative-chasing intuition monkeys get involved.
-Brian Burke, Advanced NFL Stats
yeah, I stand by that 100%
I do think they’ll be one of, if not the best team in the league. And I think they could win the title next year. I would bet on it, but I’m not saying I “guarantee” it. I’m well aware that there’s some other very good teams. And that would be their biggest roadblock
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 10, 2011 12:41 AM CST up reply actions
True.
I still think middle of the pack. Heat and Bulls are the cream of the crop and mainly because of D. I think Rose would put the clamps to D Will for shits and giggles and our frontline would neutralize Howard at minimum.
Our bench would be eons better than whatever crap they could put out as well.
"Shit just got real" - anorexorcist.
Howard owns Noah
Noah’s a unique C but it works because he’s very athletic, intelligent, and outworks those who are bigger than him. Howard, though, is stronger, even more athletic, has an underestimated presence of mind on the defensive side, and works plenty hard himself.
I love it when the the narrative-chasing intuition monkeys get involved.
-Brian Burke, Advanced NFL Stats
U mean like how Rose owns D WIll and Paul?
I think Noah, Booz, Gibson and Asik could at minimum equal Howard’s production. That still leaves NJ with no answer for Deng, Hamilton, the benchmob and Thibs coaching.
"Shit just got real" - anorexorcist.
Well, if neutralize you meant the production of 5 guys playing 2 positions
could equal Howard’s, ok. I took neutralize to mean Noah would slow Howard down.
I love it when the the narrative-chasing intuition monkeys get involved.
-Brian Burke, Advanced NFL Stats
Staying overseas this season.
Sasha Vujacic
I hope I can say I did my best, achieved a lot and won a couple of world championships. - Michael Jordan, circa 1984.
Oh, you were so contained the past few days.
This is up there with some of the sin and kpd comments this week.
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 10, 2011 12:22 AM CST up reply actions
Ok, we'll see
i don’t even see how I’m saying anything that outrageous. Imo, Howard is the best player in the league. D Will is a top 10 player. You put those two guys together, and they’re gonna be fucking awesome. is that really dumb logic?
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 10, 2011 12:24 AM CST up reply actions
If Howard's the best player in the league, it's only by a slight margin over James.
As good as DWill is, he’s not as good as Wade. Kris Humprhies is no Bosh. They don’t have a Udonis Haslem, a Shane Battier, or even a Mario Chalmers. I’m a huge Howard fan, but he and Williams on the Nets is 50-55 wins. Good, could see them giving the Bulls some problems because Howard can neutralize Rose and overpower Noah, but they’d have a really hard time keeping up with the Heat.
I love it when the the narrative-chasing intuition monkeys get involved.
-Brian Burke, Advanced NFL Stats
LOL, these are the same things people were saying about the Heat last year:
As good as DWill is, he’s not as good as Wade. Kris Humprhies is no Bosh. They don’t have a Udonis Haslem, a Shane Battier, or even a Mario Chalmers
Killing their supporting cast. You basically just proved my point. Everyone said, “They can’t win with Chalmers”. Now you’re saying that new Jersy can’t find anyone that good. you’re basically proving my point
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 10, 2011 12:31 AM CST up reply actions
The Heat didn't and still don't have a great deal of depth
Still, they do have a good collection of supporting players in the three I named. Howard and DWill don’t have anything close to the third star and they don’t even have those strong role players.
I love it when the the narrative-chasing intuition monkeys get involved.
-Brian Burke, Advanced NFL Stats
But aren't they supposedly getting Nene?
I hope I can say I did my best, achieved a lot and won a couple of world championships. - Michael Jordan, circa 1984.
Iight, thanks.
I hope I can say I did my best, achieved a lot and won a couple of world championships. - Michael Jordan, circa 1984.
Best player in the league? lololol
I still think Queen James. D-Wade and Kobe hold that tittle.
"Shit just got real" - anorexorcist.
You'd rather have D Wade or Kobe than Dwight Howard?
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 10, 2011 12:20 AM CST up reply actions
Well yeah, that's a lot closer
but I wouldn’t even consider taking Wade or Kobe ahead of him. I’d take Rose in a heartbeat over both those guys
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 10, 2011 12:25 AM CST up reply actions
If the Hawks can contain him
We can
"Violence is not always the answer."
"Violence is the question, and the answers always YES!"
Atlanta actually did the complete opposite.
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 10, 2011 12:27 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah, didn't he score like 600 points one game
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 10, 2011 12:29 AM CST up reply actions
Thought there was one game
in which he scored 8 points in the playoffs
"Violence is not always the answer."
"Violence is the question, and the answers always YES!"
howard can be kept in check...hes def no shaq in his prime
I still see flaws to howards game.
im being serious
look what the lakers did to him in the championship. He can be limited. If you watch Howard, there are jsut some games where his anger and frustrations get the best of him. Play smart defense on him with a solid front court and you can limit his performance…
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story
I love it when the the narrative-chasing intuition monkeys get involved.
-Brian Burke, Advanced NFL Stats
idk, what's the difference?
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 10, 2011 2:24 AM CST up reply actions
Well I'd consider
LBJ the best player in the game because of his skill set, but Dwight can simply dominate a game or change the way another team plays simply because he’s enormous and nobody matches up with him
light em up
That's pretty much why I think Howard is the best.. He doesn't even have to do all that much
and he still has a tremendous effect on the game. The defense he provides in the post is invaluable. As great as Lebron is, he just can’t effect games in the same manor.
And now that Howard can score, and has tremendous touch around the basket, he really has no flaws (well, other than horrid free throw shooting, of course)
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 10, 2011 2:41 AM CST up reply actions
The "best player in the league"
Doesn’t let that Magic squad lose to the Hawks. I don’t think Howard can be the best player on a Championship team.
Hey Rose. I don't see the appeal!
This is a silly sentiment
I don’t think Howard can be the best player on a Championship team.
Not following this at all
Williams and Howard together prob puts them ahead of us this year
Damn beat me to it
Looks like the Bulls are not in the Howard derby.
Is it that Howard isn't interested or the Magic?
Isn’t the team giving Glass this permission to talk to these 3 teams or am i confused?
Hopefully it's the Mavs or Lakers, then a career ending leg injury shortly thereafter
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 9, 2011 11:57 PM CST up reply actions
that would be the Clippers, sir
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 9, 2011 11:59 PM CST up reply actions
In light of today's news
let’s put the Blazers on that list, too
Man Fuck Dwight
The Mavs? Nets? Really?!
"Violence is not always the answer."
"Violence is the question, and the answers always YES!"
Dwight's used to playing on teams with $90 million payrolls
GarPaxDorf probably scares the crap out of him.
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 9, 2011 11:58 PM CST up reply actions
I doubt that's the main issue
The Bulls team he would walk onto would instantly be better than any team he’s been on in Orlando.
yet he's only considering the Nets, Mavs and Lakers?
what do you think the reason is?
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 10, 2011 12:03 AM CST up reply actions
What's the Nets current payroll?
Oh yeah, they are under the cap. I don’t know why he’s considering those teams. It’s a strange mix. Could also be the 3 teams that have shown serious interest to the Magic.
I'm sure he has no doubts about the Nyets ponying up the dough in future years
would you?
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 10, 2011 12:10 AM CST up reply actions
If he's on the Bulls, they don't need to pony up money to win
They will already have 2 superstars. Howard isn’t coming to the Bulls because he doesn’t think they will be contenders. There is something else at play.
And why the f would Howard care about the luxury tax, unless he thought it would inhibit him from winning. I think your missing the forest for the trees here.
Always need to pony up
Always guys you need to replace. Always slots you need to upgrade. Some teams are in it to win it and some are in it to make the owner money. Why play for the latter? Dwight makes anyone a contender.
well we would need to pony up money, because they only way he's coming here is if we trade Noah and Deng for him at the trading deadline
meaning we’ll be paying approximately $50 million for Howard-Rose-Boozer. We’ll need to bring in some other guys in order to be a complete team, and there’s no way we don’t end up in the tax.
Which is probably why we’re not pursuing him, and probably why he doesn’t think we’ll be a contender.
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 10, 2011 12:15 AM CST up reply actions
im sorry, evem after a noah and deng trade, this team is dominant
if he thinks we are not contenders, then hell be in for a surprise.
we'd be great
but when Taj, Asik, Korver, Brewer and Watson all need to be resigned/replaced within the next two years there’s no way we don’t end up spending $20-25 million per year extra on the other 10-12 players we’ll need to fill out the roster.
You can’t pay $50 million plus to three guys and not be a tax paying team.
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 10, 2011 12:19 AM CST up reply actions
I think you're reading way too much into it
You are applying your own frustration as a Bulls fan to Howard. I doubt he shares your disdain for Jerry Reinsdorf.
by JSB on Dec 10, 2011 12:21 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't think he hates Reinsdorf
but I do think he notices that the Bulls don’t spend money or take risks like the Mavericks, Lakers, Heat etc.
I think you’re underestimating the value NBA players place on ownership/management.
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 10, 2011 12:23 AM CST up reply actions
Not just players.
Don’t forget their agents.
I hope I can say I did my best, achieved a lot and won a couple of world championships. - Michael Jordan, circa 1984.
also, what's your theory on why he doesn't want to come here?
if it’s just because he doesn’t think we’ll be contenders — why wouldn’t he think that?
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 10, 2011 12:23 AM CST up reply actions
I don't get it to be honest
I think there’s something missing to the story. But the story has been consistent even since last year that he doesn’t want to play in Chicago. Maybe he doesn’t like the city. I’d agree that JR isn’t the type of magnetic personality that Cuban or Prohkorov are, but I don’t think the luxury tax thing is the driving factor.
Hell, the Magic have proven that they are willing to pay and he can’t wait to get out of there because they have f-ed themselves up.
good point, I don't think it's individually the luxury tax
or Reinsdorf, in and of themselves. But it’s a pattern — and my take on it is that it’s our management.
Grant Hill, Tmac, Tim Duncan, Eddie freaking Jones, Dwyane Wade, Bosh, LeBron, now Howard.
why do free agents from all sports love Chicago except NBA players?
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 10, 2011 12:26 AM CST up reply actions
I guess we got to hope for the Wirtz thing...
Only halfway joking. Supposedly the story is that JR’s kid is going to be running the team in a few years.
interesting...
I really know nothing about JR’s kid though.
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 10, 2011 12:28 AM CST up reply actions
Jordan's fault?
I hope I can say I did my best, achieved a lot and won a couple of world championships. - Michael Jordan, circa 1984.
You mean afraid of Jordan's shadow?
I’ve never bought that. Doesn’t seem to hurt the Celtics or Lakers.
I don't buy it either.
Just wanted to pose the question tho. To get others thoughts.
I hope I can say I did my best, achieved a lot and won a couple of world championships. - Michael Jordan, circa 1984.
I seriously doubt the Bulls have even tried to talk to him.
While I don’t really think that Howard is a great fit with Derrick style wise, and am not overly bummed that we won’t get him; I am very unhappy that the reason you gave is likely the reason the org hasn’t persued him too hard(if at all).
News flash: Luol Deng is good...We now return you to your regularly scheduled hating...
im willing to bet Orlando is letting him talk to those two teams and the Lakers specifically
because those teams have provided the three best offers, or have players Orlando is interested in. i’d bet that if Noah could be traded now rather than in several months, we’d be on that list too.
In other news...
@ESPNSteinLine
Marc Stein
ESPN sources: Hornets/Lakers/Rockets cautiously optimistic they’ll have reworked CP3 trade to present to NBA perhaps as soon as Saturday
by BearDownChiTown on Dec 9, 2011 11:57 PM CST reply actions
Also on CP3 front:
@WojYahooNBA
Adrian Wojnarowski
The primary work on deal has been between Lakers and Hornets sides, sources say. Rockets still get Gasol, still move same parts. Odom to NO.
NBA wants Hornets to get younger talent, picks. One source says, “Still working through it all,” and there could be resolution on Saturday.
by BearDownChiTown on Dec 10, 2011 12:02 AM CST up reply actions
What would the Mavs trade package to the Magic look like?
by BearDownChiTown on Dec 9, 2011 11:59 PM CST reply actions
KC chimes in
Told doesn’t want to be w/ Bulls. RT @sam_amick: Orlando PR says DHoward’s agent has permission to speak w/ Lakers, Nets, Mavs about trade.
Clearly the guy just doesn't want to come here
Time to move on I guess
Dwight can go bang a damn Llama
"Violence is not always the answer."
"Violence is the question, and the answers always YES!"
by T.Moore on Dec 10, 2011 12:04 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
KC never misses an opportunity to dump a little cold water
I’ll bet he was sleeping, but his Bulls fan pain detector woke him up
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 10, 2011 12:04 AM CST up reply actions
does anyone have a guess as to why he doesn't want to come here?
yet he would go to Dallas or New Jersey? I get the Lakers, but the other teams just don’t make sense.
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 10, 2011 12:04 AM CST up reply actions
All three of those teams are owned by billionaires who don't give a shit about the luxury tax.
"It will happen because our major-league coaching staff is more prepared than their counterparts across the field."
by louslovechild on Dec 10, 2011 12:05 AM CST up reply actions
My two cents...
Mark Cuban wears small t-shirts, and the Russian Mark Cuban doesn’t wear shirts at all.
Oh yeah Dwight? I never liked you either!
And Thibs said, Let there be three's, and Deng shot threes
And Deng saw the three's, that they were good
And didn't shoot long two's anymore
by windycitywarrior on Dec 10, 2011 12:04 AM CST up reply actions
Fuck Dwight
I hope I can say I did my best, achieved a lot and won a couple of world championships. - Michael Jordan, circa 1984.
by chicity773 on Dec 10, 2011 12:13 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
i don't really even get dallas.
their window is closing fast.
by obnoxious american on Dec 10, 2011 8:45 AM CST up reply actions
Gah, the Bulls have had some rough breaks on the trade/free agency front for a LONG ass time
If it wasn’t for lucking out like crazy with Rose, we’d really be up shit creek
Recovering...
is it "rough breaks" or just incompetence?
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 10, 2011 12:14 AM CST up reply actions
guess we'll never truly know, but there's gotta be some reason why Chicago is kryptonite to NBA players
most athletes love to play for the bears, Cubs, White Sox, Blackhawks, but the Bulls get heisman’d every time
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 10, 2011 12:19 AM CST up reply actions
to me the only common denominator is JR
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 10, 2011 12:20 AM CST up reply actions
That was Krause this is Pax and Gar.
think all those punks just want to team up.
"Shit just got real" - anorexorcist.
I think that's part of it
and like I said above, it’s probably not any one thing, but a combination of everything. A pattern of cheapness, incompetence, being overly strict (the headband rule, no eating in the locker room, etc).
We’re just not run like an NBA team from this century.
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 10, 2011 12:30 AM CST up reply actions
poor fuckin boo hoo
As long as the team is serious about winning, thats what matters the most. This is hwat i dont like about the players from the James, Paul, Wade, Amare, Howard, Melo class…they are too fuckin soft.
That was so long ago though
i doubt most of these players give a shit about what happened last year, let alone 15 years ago
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 10, 2011 12:50 AM CST up reply actions
do you think it might be possible that the combination of
past idiotic coaches, and intimidating hardline defensive coaches that have made a lot of superstar players shy away from playing here?
Since Jordan the Bulls have also had shitty, shitty teams
This is the first time since Jordan retired there was a good reason to come here
it could be that the Bulls are run like a high school team
No headbands, no tv’s/video games in the locker room, no eating in the locker room, the entire hush-hush/cheap-cheap way they’ve handled this offseason, doing shit like having Thibbygar Paxdorf all wear the exact same outfit when they went to talk to LeBron, complete refusal to pay the tax, the list goes on.
I think it's MJ's influence in the league with most young players
I think he still bad mouths the organization and these guys follow lockstep. Like Wade saying some of the crap he was saying during the Lebron sweepstakes. Just be thankful we got a star who loves this city and could give a damn about anyone else.
Hey Rose. I don't see the appeal!
We have an extremely
conservative GM who seems afraid to make bold moves, and we have an owner who has a reputation, fair or not, of being cheap and unmotivated to move the team beyond above average. Dwayne Wade reminded a lot of people about the perception that Jordan was shit on by the organization after he left. The core of our team, Rose and Noah, don’t exactly throw out the welcome mat to invite other players. It’s cold as shit here during the season, and the taxes are bad here.
You pretty much have to have an egoless, singular desire to win, think you are the last piece, and love deep dish pizza to come here.
Is there anyone left on New Orleans?
Just wondering if there is anyone left on New Orleans we can trade an aging crappy contract to in return for a good player? Or have all the other big markets got to the table first?
Actually yes.
Trevor Ariza
"It will happen because our major-league coaching staff is more prepared than their counterparts across the field."
by louslovechild on Dec 10, 2011 12:18 AM CST up reply actions
"You" would
"Violence is not always the answer."
"Violence is the question, and the answers always YES!"
WHITE PANTHER!
See the most important parts are the ones that are unseen
See the wings don't make you fly and the crown don't make you king
Lulz
Grabbing his arm with two hands is the only way to hope to contain him
i bet that was a foul on Gray
LeBron went to the line
speaking of fouls
i wana see rose bitch o nthe refs if he doesnt get a foul on those hacks whenever he drives to the rim.
I wanted someone, anyone
To put theur boots to lebitch ass after that flop…
"Violence is not always the answer."
"Violence is the question, and the answers always YES!"
well if dwights not coming we're fucked
unless derrick rose turns out to become the next mj
Should've traded for Melo.
lmao,we dont even know where hes going
if hes going to the mavs/akers, fine, but we wont have to worry bout them until the finals. if the net, im not scared at all. i think bulls would still beat the nets.
we're not fucked because dwight moves
we’re fucked because we arent better than the heat AND the heat got better
Should've traded for Melo.
Ok
Did you and SoulEater do the fusion dance?
"Violence is not always the answer."
"Violence is the question, and the answers always YES!"
which part of what i said isnt true?
heat were better than us last year. they upgraded. we didnt.
Should've traded for Melo.
we got rip hamilton, to me , thats an upgrade
battier is a good defender no doubt, but its not like they added another all star
theyre likely to get billups too
i hate how this org refuses to pay or make the big trades.
Should've traded for Melo.
How are they likely to get Billups?
Unless the entire league is too afraid to claim him off waivers, he isn’t going there.
You do realize a team can still put a claim in?
If Billups was such a big talker he’d have forgone his Knicks salary and signed with the Heat yesterday.
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 10, 2011 12:49 AM CST up reply actions
can they really get Billups though?
seems unlikely.
then again by the start of the season they’ll probably have Steve Nash, Luis Scola and Tim Duncan on their 2nd unit.
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 10, 2011 12:39 AM CST up reply actions
Is the off-season over?
I’d say if the Bulls get Rip, and the Heat get Battier, the Bulls improved more.
how?
not only did we not get someone who can create their own shot. but the heat now have 3 of the best perimeter defenders in the game
Should've traded for Melo.
Our 2 guards were that bad last year
I’ll put it this way. I don’t think Shane Battier is a difference maker in the playoffs.
I repeat, he isn't the difference maker
I still think playoffs come down to which superstars play better. We can get all excited about the role players, but in the end it’s all about the superstars.
Yep, that's a problem.
I don’t think the Bulls are better than the Heat, but losing your shit because they signed Battier is stupid.
not if hes amnesty
you honestly think the teams with cap are going to let him go by free? lol.
Yep, that's a big problem.
I don’t think the Bulls are better than the Heat, but losing your shit because they signed Battier is stupid.
If Lebron,
has indeed developed a post game; we’re fucked.
I hope I can say I did my best, achieved a lot and won a couple of world championships. - Michael Jordan, circa 1984.
dont worry
korvers got one to match
Should've traded for Melo.
by sin on Dec 10, 2011 12:40 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yea, I read that comment.
I hope I can say I did my best, achieved a lot and won a couple of world championships. - Michael Jordan, circa 1984.
LeBron has a very effective post game, he just rarely uses it
I love it when the the narrative-chasing intuition monkeys get involved.
-Brian Burke, Advanced NFL Stats
Many small men have schooled Bron-Bron
His post game may be good, but he has almost no confidence in it.
I know that
Im sick of hearing it from you every 2 seconds….But its a free country blah fucking blah.
This is what I hear…
blah blah heat blah blah melo blah blah blah dwight blah blah lets not even play this year we have NO fucking chance against a team we lost to by less then 10 points per game with th refs on their jock with no fucking SG….Yeah WE DONT HAVE DAMN CHANCE! Is what I hear from you…And it’s more annoying than your usual annoyances…
"Violence is not always the answer."
"Violence is the question, and the answers always YES!"
by T.Moore on Dec 10, 2011 12:38 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
And it's coming from ME!
"Violence is not always the answer."
"Violence is the question, and the answers always YES!"
hey all the front office has to do is make one trade
and my tune will completely change
Should've traded for Melo.
Yeah a trade thats NOT gonna happen
So blah
"Violence is not always the answer."
"Violence is the question, and the answers always YES!"
at this point
all i want is jamal and ill be happy and confident we can win a title
Should've traded for Melo.
melo is the difference.
See the most important parts are the ones that are unseen
See the wings don't make you fly and the crown don't make you king
We have Scal
Goin to the Ship!
"Violence is not always the answer."
"Violence is the question, and the answers always YES!"
WHITE MAMBA!
See the most important parts are the ones that are unseen
See the wings don't make you fly and the crown don't make you king
umm...wut
“well if dwights not coming we’re fucked”
you respond to yourself by saying
“we’re not fucked because dwight moves we’re fucked because we arent better than the heat AND the head got better”
so what exactly are you talking about?
dont bother arguing...its sin
the same guy who thinks melo will win this yr, lol
dwight was the only thing that would make us better
im not worried about dwight going to another team and helping them beat us.
im worried about dwight not being on our team to help us beat the heat
Should've traded for Melo.
what about other options
what if there is a better SG out there by midseason…like iggy. Would you say our chances increased? Iggy is a damn good player and his PER is up there with the best players
Do you realize...
…that we are apparently about to sign Rip Hamilton—a legit starting SG who is a good shooter/scorer and while not great at creating his own shot, is not bad at it either?
…that Rose, Noah, and Boozer are still on our team?
…that last year was the first time any of our core players outside of Boozer actually got as far as they did, while every single player on Miami’s roster except Bosh and Howard had all been there multiple times?
Now that we have an SG (assuming this doesnt fall through, i’m not saying we’re kicking Miami’s ass. I’d even say they’re the favorite. But it’s not by such a monumental amount that we have no shot. Rip is a huge upgrade over Keith Bogans. He’s better than Richardson at everything except 3’s, and he’s not bad at 3’s. And we don’t lose Korver/Watson/Brewer/Taj like we would have in a Crawford sign and trade. Bottom line: Battier/Curry or not, I think we have a better chance to beat Miami than we did last year.
by kpd on Dec 10, 2011 1:33 AM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Yeah, we're better, but Miami will be better too
They’ll have a healthy Haslem, AND Battier.
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 10, 2011 2:43 AM CST up reply actions
broussard gets paid for this kind of analysis people. HOW DO I GET A JOB LIKE THAT
Chris_Broussard Chris Broussard
Here’s when u know something’s a lie: when involved parties stories conflict. D12 agent Dan Fegan tells @RicBucher Magic gave D12 permission
Should've traded for Melo.
Despite the free agency craziness, this is all KC's worried about
KCJHoop
All I know is #Bulls better sign a SG before @wilco plays Civic Opera House on Monday. With Nick Lowe to boot.
by bryield on Dec 10, 2011 12:32 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
for a music snob KC should listen to better bands
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 10, 2011 12:33 AM CST up reply actions
I don't really know what he listens to outside of Wilco
but Wilco aren’t really good.
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 10, 2011 9:03 PM CST up reply actions
Nobody likes their job
We all probably spend time at work surfing the internet for basketball news. KC probably spends all his time at Bulls practice reading music message boards.
by JSB on Dec 10, 2011 12:33 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Howard is going to the Lakers
It’s why Bynum wasn’t in the deal for Paul. It’s why they dumped all that salary.
Lakers superteam
Im gonna be pissed, but fuck I dont care about them anymore
"Violence is not always the answer."
"Violence is the question, and the answers always YES!"
lakers vs heat is going to be hard to cheer for
i want to cheer for the lakers.
but i dont want to see all my friends celebrating and thinking kobe is the greatest shit ever if they win
Should've traded for Melo.
Kobe can't win without a top 5 Big
To me its still a fact
"Violence is not always the answer."
"Violence is the question, and the answers always YES!"
Some writers have mentioned thats the next move and all but wrapped up
They aren’t going into the season with Bynum as their only big. People can’t really expect this deal to be it and had to wonder why Bynum and not Odom wasn’t the person going to the Hornets for Paul. The whole thing is a setup and some of the smaller owners caught on.
Which writers?
And I’m not talking about Lakers fans on facebook. Everyone that I respect has basically said they can’t see the Lakers getting both.
ummm
LeBron James
David Stern
Billy Hunter
World Wide Wes
Chris Bosh
John Hollinger
Collin Cowherd
Sin
by kpd on Dec 10, 2011 1:37 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
You forgot Skip Bayless
And maybe Stephen A Smith…2 brothers from another mother
"Violence is not always the answer."
"Violence is the question, and the answers always YES!"
two compelte dumbasses who stomp on D Rose
I hope Rose puts up 30 7 5 this year to shut those fuckers up
If Stern blocked the whole Howard and CP3 trade if it happened at the same time
would anyone still be pissed?
"Violence is not always the answer."
"Violence is the question, and the answers always YES!"
I wouldn't be.
I have no issues with the Paul thing. But if the Magic take Bynum for Howard, I’ll be pissed.
To me
There is no way they’ll do it straight up
"Violence is not always the answer."
"Violence is the question, and the answers always YES!"
At some point the owners need to stop being pussies and make their stars go to FA
Trading superstars for spare parts is a futile endeavor. Might as well keep your star and make him take less cash to go somewhere else.
by JSB on Dec 10, 2011 12:47 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Seriously
None of the teams Howard wants to go to have cap space. Melo had leverage because the Knicks had cap space. Where is Howard going to go if the Magic tell him to pound sand and play out his contract?
Wonder if that's the only reason they're on his approved list
Bluffing the Magic into thinking he still might walk next summer.
I love it when the the narrative-chasing intuition monkeys get involved.
-Brian Burke, Advanced NFL Stats
At the very least, the star will walk, you'll be back in the lottery potentially drafting another star.
The draft is what makes this league, not free agency.
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 10, 2011 12:54 AM CST up reply actions
You know, everyone made a big deal about what the Nuggets got in the Melo trade
And they had a fun run last year. But are they or the Cavs better set up 3 years from now? I’d argue the Cavs are.
by JSB on Dec 10, 2011 12:55 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yup, even though they might have done ok in historical basketball trade terms, they still got their ass kicked technically
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 10, 2011 12:56 AM CST up reply actions
Although they probably weren't going anywhere with Melo either
Most overrated superstar in the game.
yeah, I'm not a melo fan either
But he does put butts in seats, which is a very important aspect. And other stars might like to play with him, so that’s another thing that gives hope. As it stands now, they’re just a mish mash of mediocrity
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 10, 2011 12:59 AM CST up reply actions
I was really excited at the prospect of the Knicks trading Melo for Paul
I know the stronger rumor was the Knicks were offering Amar’e, but I have no problem with him and can’t stand Melo for some reason. The idea of him getting what he wanted by going to the Knicks only to be traded to New Orleans amuses me. It’s probably because sin was so annoyingly persistent about trading for him last season.
I love it when the the narrative-chasing intuition monkeys get involved.
-Brian Burke, Advanced NFL Stats
The Cavs lucked out though.
It was the Baron Davis contract dump that got them the number one overall pick, not a result of being bad.
by BearDownChiTown on Dec 10, 2011 12:58 AM CST up reply actions
yeah, even though the Nuggets got cheap young talent
those guys are now free agents, and not so cheap (and/or in China)
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"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 10, 2011 10:27 AM CST up reply actions
yup, it's better to just bottom out
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 10, 2011 12:55 AM CST up reply actions
Or better yet
trade that star to a team that’s willing to only have him for the last year. Even if all you get is cap space and draft picks. Like if I’m the Magic, I would call up the Bulls and say.. “Hey you want a one year rental of Dwight for Taj, Mitrioc, and that Charlotte pick?” (Or however it works money wise). Screw letting the player go where he wants. Just grab what you can and ship him wherever you want.
Hey Rose. I don't see the appeal!
grab what you can
give nothing back
"Violence is not always the answer."
"Violence is the question, and the answers always YES!"
What are they gonna give up?
"Violence is not always the answer."
"Violence is the question, and the answers always YES!"
they can sign and trade their remaining FA nad package in Marion
and throw in their draft picks
well, the thing is the lakers are in process getting paul
as of right now i dont consider them in the mix for howard until they resolve the paul issue
or the mavs can bring in a thrid team like hwo the lakers did for paul
maybe a team like suns
Expiring contracts and Beubois
I love it when the the narrative-chasing intuition monkeys get involved.
-Brian Burke, Advanced NFL Stats
But why would they want expirings?
They lose a buttload of salary just by letting Howard walk at the end of the season. Do they want to help another team out THAT badly?
i just think they dont want to trade within the East
and would rather trade to a team from the west. Lakers, we dont know wtf is going on with them and paul.
Probably looking for a place to dump Hedo as well
Still, if I were the Magic, I’d be looking for cap relief, draft picks, and a couple young players with a few years left on their rookie deals. Even with a salary floor, the idea of taking on due for an extension Brook Lopez or the high potential injury risk of Andrew Bynum wouldn’t sound very appealing at all.
I love it when the the narrative-chasing intuition monkeys get involved.
-Brian Burke, Advanced NFL Stats
They should demand the same thing New Orleans is demanding
Since they will be in full-on rebuilding mode: young talent and picks. And superstars like Jermaine O’Neal.
by Bulldozer on Dec 10, 2011 1:20 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
You did not get the memo
"Violence is not always the answer."
"Violence is the question, and the answers always YES!"
Just heard from Bucher on ESPN
That in order to receive a full 5 year deal, the trade has to be consummated before January 1. So that might be a big reason the Bulls aren’t one of Howard’s destinations, because we can’t deal Noah until late in January.
by BearDownChiTown on Dec 10, 2011 1:25 AM CST reply actions
hmm, what if there were other options
somewhere in the midseason, idk, like for iggy, or maybe the bulls can sign JR smith
All possibilities, but due to the Bulls small market status
it would be very hard to see JR paying one of those guys without getting rid of one our other big contracts (Noah, Lu, Booze, Derrick). So really, what’s the gain?
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 10, 2011 1:29 AM CST up reply actions
well, out of those players
lets say getting rid of noah…lets say asik is ready to step in for noah and sure, he wont be as good as noah, but his defense and rebounding skills would be on par. Then lets say we get a SG who can help Rose more than Hamilton and Hamilton comes off the bench…what do you think?
Idk about all that. A lot of huge "ifs" in there
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 10, 2011 2:28 AM CST up reply actions
well, isnt the NBA bunch of huge ifs?
like the bulls being the number 1 seed last year? or the heat somehow getting both bosh and bron? I WOULD SAY THOSE ARE HUGE IFS.
Yeah, but I mean that there are just too many moving parts to say with any degree of certainty how good we'd be,
or if we’d even be better off.
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 10, 2011 2:34 AM CST up reply actions
it all comes down to situation and chance if it presents itself
lets see how much asik has progressed. who knows, he might be able to replace noahs game
Welp, no doubt his Howard thing stings a bit
Although it’s looked like a long shot for some time now, there was always that little glimmer of hope. And with guys like Woj mentioning the Bulls as possibilities recently, you thought that maybe something had changed. But no.
The shitty thing is that Howard is the last superstar (that wants out) that would be a clear game changer for us, and ensure that the Bulls would be title contenders, if not favorites, for the foreseeable future. And even give us that dynasty potential. Now everything is a lot more up and there.
Hardly the end of the world though, the Bulls still have the MVP and a very enviable overall situation, but it is gonna be very difficult to win a ring
Recovering...
as it is for the heat and every other team
look, i think there are otehr options that can put us at the level of the heat. i dont think howard is a must, but of course, I WOULD DO ANYTHING TO HAVE HOWARD.
Not so fast
Let the Lakers have CP3 and the Mavs get Dwight. They can beat the shit out of each other in the Western Conference Finals, and we only have to go through one of the two to get our rings.
I think I have some sort of mental defect
Instead of writing “everything is a lot more up in the air”, I wrote “up and there”. The fuck?
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 10, 2011 1:32 AM CST up reply actions
I was about to call you out on that
but it seemed a little dick-ish
by BearDownChiTown on Dec 10, 2011 1:46 AM CST up reply actions
For fuck's sake
The Bulls are already a title contender for the foreseeable future. Right now there are two teams in the entire NBA that are in as good shape as us: the Thunder and the Heat.
Pat Riley is the devil.
yeah, but I put us and the Thunder a step below the Heat
And it’s not like I’m panicked. Just a little disappointed is all. Things like this Howard trade are franchise changers. It seriously could be the difference between a few Eastern Conference title games in the next five years, or winning the title every year for the next five years.
So yeah, we’ll still be damn good, but I was thinking REALLY big.
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 10, 2011 2:32 AM CST up reply actions
i hear ya but maybe the bulls jsut dont have what the magic want b.c we cant trade noah?
we dont know why he didnt chose the bulls as one of his choices…all i know if not being able to trade noah hurts our chances getting him. and no, i dont think the magic want boozer; i think they want some replacable palyer.
No, we probably don't. It's always been a long shot, but now it;s just a "no shot".
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 10, 2011 2:36 AM CST up reply actions
its fuckin pitiful, why the fuck the magic are letting howard control this situation.
if anything, the thunder have mroe to offer than the lakers, mavs, and nets all put combined,
point is, just us offering deng, asik, and brewer
is way better than bynum and w.e the nets have to offer. and on top of that the bulls could have offered their picks i nthe future.
If a team has no assurances that Howard will be around after this season, they'll cut back on the offers they make
Deng has the same health question marks as Bynum with nowhere near the same upside
I love it when the the narrative-chasing intuition monkeys get involved.
-Brian Burke, Advanced NFL Stats
If we really do get Hamilton, and
if he is still good and relatively healthy (way fewer minutes the last 2 years, less mileage, as long as injuries don’t persist..), then we’ve had a major upgrade short term, short commitment. He’s a $12m contract player that only counts against our cap for $5m, who has a ring and is a gen-u-wine (heh) starting 2. Sign Kurt, keep Keith.
Would anyone else trade for Dwight, even if he doesn't say he wants to be here?
I would look for a 3-way trade with the Spurs if the Bulls wanted to pursue it. The Bulls would give up Taj Gibson, Omer Asik, and draft picks as the main pieces to the
Just throwing the idea out there:
Bulls Receive:
Dwight Howard
Hedo Turkoglu
Matt Bonner
Magic Receive:
Taj Gibson
Omer Asik
Tiago Splitter
Kyle Korver
Ronnie Brewer
Antonio McDyess
2012 and 2014 Bulls Picks
Bobcats Pick
Pick from Spurs
Spurs Receive:
Carlos Boozer
Basically, the trade gives Orlando some immediate relief ($29.1 million going out, $21.7 million coming in). Asik/Gibson give them some young players, and McDyess is expiring, and Brewer/Korver both have tradeable contracts that they could deal for expirings (and they’re on unguaranteed deals for the last year anyhow I think). They also ditch Hedo Turkoglu’s contract in the trade.
In addition, they get a treasure chest full of draft picks over the next few years.
For the Spurs, they get Carlos Boozer to put together a core of Parker/Ginobili/Boozer/Duncan to try to make one last run at the title with that core.
For the Bulls, they get Dwight freaking Howard, and have a team ready to compete:
PG-Derrick Rose/CJ Watson
SG-Keith Bogans/Rip Hamilton
SF-Luol Deng/Hedo Turkoglu
PF-Joakim Noah/Matt Bonner
C- Dwight Howard
We would need to work on our front court depth a little bit, but that starting front line of Joakim and Dwight would be scary good defensively and on the offensive glass.
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how does creating a juggernaut in the east help the spurs pursue a title
i like the idea of bringing in a third team so we can unload boozer though because we certainly have the picks and i wouldnt mind giving up deng.
i just really wish we could keep noah
Should've traded for Melo.
no way Bogans starts over Rip
i know not the point, but really…
why would San Antonio ever do this trade? like... ever?
A true friend stabs you in the front - Oscar Wilde
The Spurs FO is way too smart to think Boozer will help them win a title
by BearDownChiTown on Dec 10, 2011 3:18 AM CST reply actions
Fuck Bogans
In the 2nd play he had Boozer wide open (the defender was fronting him, but there was no one else close you just lob it over him and it’s an easy 2 points). I’m 90% sure I could make that pass.
Noah
Can someone show me the link where it says Noah can’t be traded until January. I’ve seen that written in this thread more than once and I believe that is inaccurate, but willing to be proven wrong. Isn’t he just BYC, making it harder to trade? Not completely unable to?
by Mattchoo on Dec 10, 2011 3:38 AM CST via mobile reply actions
I think it's that the dollar amount he'd count for in a trade is half until then
I recall seeing “base year compensation” being the key term in that description
That was my understanding, but I'm not too educated on what the new CBA changed.
The BYC, at least in past years would run through July 1st, 2012. Not sure if they put a restriction on signing an extension and then being traded, or if the January reference is that they cut down BYC to January, so those guys don’t have BYC status at the trade deadline.
If it’s just good old BYC rules, it shouldn’t be too hard to work out a trade with Noah involved, assuming we also trade Boozer (presumably to a third team).
Just working on my San Antonio example above:
Bulls Receive: Dwight Howard, Hedo Turkoglu, Matt Bonner
Magic Receive: Joakim Noah, Omer Asik, Kyle Korver, Antonio McDyess, Tiago Splitter
Spurs Receive: Carlos Boozer
That would be a legal trade if BYC is the only issue.
The one caveat about a Howard trade would that Boozer would have to be included, because presumably we would also have to take back Turkoglu’s contract to make it attractive enough. But when you’re peddling salary numbers that high, the BYC kind of becomes a non-issue.
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Chicago Bulls Blog and Forums. NBA Power Rankings.
Basically, he's BYC still, but instead of making it 'harder' they made it 'impossible' to trade
Base year compensation
• 2005 CBA: Applies for six months (but no later than June 30) after a player is re-signed with Bird rights or receives an extension of his rookie scale contract, and receives a raise greater than 20 percent. Base year compensation limits the player’s outgoing salary for trade purposes.
• 2011 CBA: The criteria for determining whether a player is subject to base year compensation are the same. Players subject to base year compensation cannot be traded before Jan. 15, except in a sign-and-trade. If the trade is allowed, then base year compensation is applied to the player’s outgoing salary only in a sign-and-trade transaction.
• Who benefits? Base year compensation prevents teams from re-signing players to higher salaries in order to facilitate a future trade. Preventing these players from being traded at all (except in a sign-and-trade) also helps to reduce crazy trades, where extra players are added to both sides of the deal to make the salaries match.
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/CBA-111128/how-new-nba-deal-compares-last-one
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"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 10, 2011 10:31 AM CST up reply actions
The language that's confusing in that is
Players subject to base year compensation cannot be traded before Jan. 15, except in a sign-and-trade. If the trade is allowed, then base year compensation is applied to the player’s outgoing salary only in a sign-and-trade transaction.
Because a player that has a BYC designation is already under contract via an extension.
So, if the player coming back was the player being signed & traded, then it would be allowable to move a BYC player applying the BYC salary restrictions.
That’s how I read it, but hopefully Larry Coon’s FAQ will further clarify that.
I disagree with those talking doom and gloom
The Bulls went 62-20 last year. The Bulls swept MIA in the regular season despite injury problems. Adding Rip Hamilton is a super safe move, but one that will improve the Bulls. The Bulls can wait until the trade deadline and see how things are going. If it looks likeRose still needs more help, they can look for a desperate team at the trade deadline. Again, signing Rip Hamilton improves on a 62-20 team. Would I have liked a big push for Dwight? Absolutely! But I will settle for an improved squad and waiting until the trade deadline.
"Mental toughness is to physical as four is to one." - Bob Knight
plus boozer could improve
noah maybe plays a whole season, ronnie could improve, another year of thibs instruction, etc.
by obnoxious american on Dec 10, 2011 8:53 AM CST up reply actions
like the white sox last year.
no. nothing could go that bad.
by obnoxious american on Dec 10, 2011 12:32 PM CST up reply actions
rip's 3 point attempt per game is pathetic.
this is rip’s numbers via basketball-reference;
1,7 carreer 3p attempts per game? i can’t see how that’s an improvement over bogans. his best 3 pointer attemps a season is 3 and he shoot 29 % that year. even bogans made more attempts last year with a better percentage. how will that effect the bulls’ spacing? boozer and noah already suffers from spacing issues and you’re trying to add a guy who even doesn’t try 3 pointers and like to shoot midrange. how’s that gonna help rose to drive and let the other guys have easy buckets?
and you can offer a 2 year deal to hamilton but can’t let j-rich have a four year deal? that’s such a lame excuse. hamilton is 3 years older than j-rich. in two years he will be 35, richardson on the other hand will be 34 in four years. just stop these stupid excuses and say that you’re the chepeast F/O this league has ever seen. and please don’t let bogans go. we’ll need someone who can both defend and at least try to shoot a 3 pointer when he has the look.
you can see and compare the numbers of bogans and j-rich to rip here;
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/richaja01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boganke01.html
Grab it, Jo!
apparently hamilton can defend and is just a better scorer than bogans.
i’d still rather have jamal.
by obnoxious american on Dec 10, 2011 9:06 AM CST up reply actions
of course he's a better scorer than bogans
he’s a better player than bogans. that’s not my point. i’m just trying to say that when you have rose going to the basket at will and have noah and boozer living under the rim you need a good 3 point shooter. with rip on the wing how’s that possible for d-rose to destroy that heat defense. it’s all about spacing and if we don’t add a real 3 point threat wtih some defending skills they’re going to keep containing rose with three guys and risk others. then lebron will end up being a hero for defending the youngest mvp so good.
Grab it, Jo!
You need guys who can hit open long jumpers and space the floor...
Not just 3’s. Deng and Rip will work to that end nicely.
by Khalid El-Amin on Dec 10, 2011 9:24 AM CST up reply actions
this might be stupid to ask but
dude, are you the real khalid el-amin? i always see your name here but had never taken a look at your profile. if so people are still talking about you here in turkey : )
Grab it, Jo!
that's why i'd rather have jamal or richardson.
plus maybe derrick will learn how to adjust to traps. if he does that at all, this team improves crazily.
by obnoxious american on Dec 10, 2011 9:28 AM CST up reply actions
If LA gets Paul and Howard
and the Heat somehow keep adding key pieces, the NBA is going to ruin itself. The competitive imbalance will be far worse than baseball, who has lost many fanbases because they don’t have a shot. At least in baseball there is a chance you draft well and have your young players in the big league for a window.
If there are truly 2 or 3 superteams, you will lose the interest of 10-15 fanbases. The NBA will have to turn into Eurpoean soccer where team’s like Manchester U, etc have to form their own league because they are so ridiculously better than everyone else that nobody has a chance.
I don’t get the motivation of teams like Charlotte, Orlando, Denver etc. They are getting something for their superstar, but by getting that pittance they are sending their star to a team they could never, ever beat. The NBA should have addressed this in the CBA, because it truly is going to ruin the league. IT wouldn’t be hard. If a team loses a player to free agency they get draft pick compensation. The better the player, the better the pick. For a player like Howard, Lebron, Melo, the team might get a guaranteed top 5 pick. At least then the team wouldn’t be motivated to accomodate the player’s desire to join a superteam, and player’s movements would be restricted to a team with the cap space (ie the need for a star) to sign them.
by tomas21 on Dec 10, 2011 9:08 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
It would ruin itself more than it did.
Since Stern’s dumbass
"Violence is not always the answer."
"Violence is the question, and the answers always YES!"
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