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Bulls 108, Kings 98: A beatdown not reflected in the final score

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The Bulls out-ran and out-shot the Kings all night long for a 108-98 win in Sacramento on Thursday night, but sloppy rebounding, bad second and third efforts, and inconsistent officiating kept the game close. It would've been nicer to see a scoreboard blowout where starters were rested by choice, but instead they were rested in foul trouble. Fortunately, the Bench Mob showed it's highest sign of cohesion throughout the evening.

Team
OffEff
DefEff
Poss
EFG%
TOR
ORR
FTR
CHI
111.3
101.0
97
57.5
18.6
25.0
26.3
SAC
101.0
111.3
47.0
16.5
35.3
41.0

Star-divide

The Bulls jumped to 2-1 on the shortened season starting the game with a 19-2 run that put them up 19-5 with around six minutes left in the first quarter and never turned back. They led by as many as 15 and most of the game by double digits to get a relatively easy, though frustrating win.

Derrick Rose (19 points, on 7-for-14, eight assists) fulfilled his promise by coming out with the aggressiveness his game lacked in the first two games of the season. The aggressiveness also translated into six turnovers and five fouls. To his credit, two fouls usually go his way and the fourth -- taking him out of the third quarter -- was a reach-in that doesn't occur if his bigs had helped on a penetrating Jimmer Fredette sooner.

The biggest story after the game was then, obviously, the refs when Tom Thibodeau spoke after the game -- a rare subject for him:

"Yeah, I think I'll pass that along to the officials too," he said while discussing Rose's aggression at the rim. "He was in an attack mode right from the start of the game and that's usually who he is. I thought he set the tone at both ends. He's got to drive with more force I guess. Sometimes I think him being such a nice guy goes against him too. He's driving the ball ... I think it's been [in the last two games] four free throws, six free throws, and he's attacking the basket. He's getting hit sometimes. We got to have him continue to do it and generate the force and force them to make the call, because right now he's not getting the call."

Rose also expressed frustration.

"I'm kind of mad," he said. "The refs got me messed up. Late in the game, it threw off my game a little bit. But I told you from the beginning, just attacking the hole. They're giving me open shots, I'm going to take them. That's what I tried to do tonight."

Thibodeau was unhappy that Rose wasn't getting more whistles on offense. Rose, on the other hand, seemed most displeased with the fact that he was getting too many whistles on the defensive end.

All of that said, he was 4-for-6 at the rim and 5-for-6 at the line in only 32 minutes of a game where the gameflow never forced Rose to will buckets. There was still a bit too much of standing around and watching Derrick after he'd use a pick and put a move on his man, but the gameflow called for the Bulls to maximize their rest on offense. A gameflow with 34 combined turnovers, forcing a 97-possession pace.

The Bench Mob was outright fantastic. The Kings' bench isn't a pile of crap. J.J. Hickson (seven points, eight rebounds in 18 minutes) and Fredette (14 points on 5-for-10, three assists, three turnover in 24 minutes) were aggressive assets who can score and DeMarcus Cousins (15 points on 4-for-16, 12 rebounds) was making trouble on both ends of the court in long stretches against Omer Asik -- subbing for the oft-foul troubled Joakim Noah. Sacramento's bench simply couldn't create easy buckets against the Bulls defense and Thibs' squad executed the strategy of running the floor on rebounds and steals for 48 minutes, accumulating 33 fastbreak points.

That formula was no match for the Kings. The turnovers made it look ugly at times, but erring on the side of aggressiveness paid off.

  • Carlos Boozer (16 points on 8-for-16, 15 rebounds) couldn't have a solid game without being frustrating, could he? His efficiency is clear in the total production and Chuck Hayes is no slouch, but there was no hard roll after setting picks, he wasn't taking the smaller man with his back to the basket, and wasn't finding open space off the ball when Rose attacked. He was 4-for-6 within nine feet of the rim, 4-for-10 taking jumpers ten-plus feet away and didn't get to the line once.
  • C.J. Watson (eight points on 3-for-7, nine assists) played some of the best point guard of his life. The Kings backcourt defense is pretty bad and dribbling so much on offense drains their energy. Watson exploited this all night, raising the pace whenever he touched the ball off a failed Sacramento possession. In 16 minutes, he led the team in assists by simply taking outlet passes to the middle of the floor and trusting his teammates to run with him and find space in transition. He ignited a 10-0 run to start the second quarter and an 11-2 to close out the third with no turnovers. He clearly played according to his opponents in a great way with Rose in foul trouble throughout.
  • Richard Hamilton (16 points on 7-for-15, two steals) locked down very well on the defensive end. Whether it was Marcus Thornton, Tyreke Evans, or John Salmons, the man assigned to Rip had problems touching the ball. When they were able to get the ball in space, it was Rip sagging off when his man was two passes away. You can live with Rip erring on the side of over-helping in those cases when he locks his man down so well in the cases where he's one pass away. the three Kings guards totaled 51 points on 19-for-41 shooting, but that was largely due to Thornton draining 4-of-6 3s and Evans attacking to go 7-for-9 at the rim. (Luckily Evans bricked seven [SEVEN!!!] of his 12 free throw attempts.)

    Offensively, Rip didn't cut to the basket without the ball as much as Rose's aggressiveness called for, hit only 3-of-9 two-point shots beyond ten feet, but went 1-for-2 on 3s and attacked with the ball to go 2-for-3 at the rim. He passes so well that you can live with this as a breath of fresh air; but cutting the baseline more when Rose is using the high pick n' roll will ease that pressure, forcing opponents to abandon Rip with the double team, watch Rose abuse single coverage, or hesitate and send Rose to the line.
  • Noah (nine points on 3-for-5, four rebounds, two blocks, two turnovers, five fouls) was punked a bit by Cousins. The flop stood out, but Noah was reacting slowly and largely led to his five fouls. His reboudns were low because he was clearly the help anchor as Booz went after loose balls. Noah handled the ball extremely well and converted on his touches. But when he helps late, there's little padding and Cousins used this to sneak into space. Fortunately, Cousins is a see-through ballstopper, but the second and third reactions by Noah led to fouls every Cousins opponent knows to avoid. He did lead the team with a +15 in only 24 minutes, though, so it's clear his motor needs to be running on the floor and not iced on the bench in games where the strategy is to run, run, and run some more.
  • Asik made that correct adjustment. After making a similar mistake that Noah was making and another on a Cousins drive form the high post, Rose said something to him, and Asik stopped trying to block Cousins. The result was Cousins running into a brick wall and embarrassing himself when the Kings were inching back on the scoreboard.
  • When is the minutes management going to kick in? Is Luol Deng going be a 40-minute target every night? This is going to sound like a broken record and it's very early, but Thibs is gambling hard on the endurance of a young man with a history of shaky wheels. Deng may be one of those where he's at least risk in constant motion, but the wear-and-tear of 150-200 minutes per week is dangerous enough to just have a guy run out of gas come playoff time. He had his second straight good game (12 points on 4-for-9, six rebounds, four assists) and will likely have a regular season like the last, where the Bulls successfully leans on him. But -- especially on the road -- there's a lack of caution that's concerning.

The Bulls next play the Clippers Friday night in L.A. The tail-end of their first back-to-back was awful against a Warriors team that lost on Christmas to the Clippers. We know what we can see from the Bulls against awful teams on two days of rest; but against good teams in their house who love to run, no team looks like a safe bet -- even the Bulls.

Stats via Hoopdata.com.

Comment 77 comments  |  2 recs  | 

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Totally agree on Lu

I’m not sure why Thibs feels so comfortable playing him that many minutes, but it’s really bugging me. And it’s not like there’s a lack of capable backups. Particularly against teams like the Kings, he NEEDS to take the foot off the pedal with him a little.
Other than that, good game. I like how they seem to be trying to use Rip exclusively out of the flow of the offense, as opposed to forcing the ball to him. He, and the team, seem to be playing better as a result.

Sadly, my self worth is almost entirely based upon the outcome of the previous night's Bulls game.

by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 30, 2011 10:36 AM CST reply actions  

My assumption is that Lu gets iced easily.

This is common with younger players who have knee histories. As they get older, the rest helps, but while still young you’re best if the machine stays in motion. He doesn’t have in-game fatigue and never tightens up regardless of shift length, so it’s easy to send him out there for long stretches.

The pedal almost needs to be pushed hard to get the production, maybe, but you’re right about the long-term need. Play him 44 minutes against LeBron in May, not three-guard offenses in December.

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by Alex Sonty on Dec 30, 2011 10:57 AM CST up reply actions   2 recs

I swear, he knocks knees and starts limping at some point every game

and I noticed last night he has a sleeve on one of his legs, which I don’t think was there before.

Brewer should be getting a lot more minutes at the 3. It’s an easier decision for Thibs with him playing so well, too.

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"Don't nag, flag!"

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 30, 2011 11:43 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Doesn't he always have a sleeve?

He adjusts it after every set of FTs he shoots. Or are you talking about something different?

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by Alex Sonty on Dec 30, 2011 12:13 PM CST up reply actions  

he has a sleeve

he stores his mouth guard in his leg sleeve during free throws. The adjustment is him getting his mouth guard out again.

by JockstrapNoah on Dec 30, 2011 12:29 PM CST up reply actions  

ok, maybe I'm just insane then

for some reason it stood out last night. Maybe I’m just preprogrammed to fear his legs falling off.

BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 30, 2011 2:12 PM CST up reply actions   2 recs

reminds me of joe smith

he always had to be on that excersise bike or else he would tighten up and risked injury…..last year we all joked about how lu had a healthy season and that thibs playing him over 40 min a game was the cure….maybe its not so crazy afterall

I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!

by piccolomair on Dec 30, 2011 12:55 PM CST up reply actions  

correction:

i would like to see rip/ronnie together at ALL. not more of… since it hasn’t happened yet.

Look
I didn’t want to offend anyone by saying the "f" word or generalizing my statement to any particular sex by saying "gays" or lesbians" or "bi’s" so "homos" is the most "politically correct" term. I’m just trying to be more tact in a tactless blog.

by Hindut Patrol on Feb 15, 2011 2:51 PM EST

by Jaina on Dec 30, 2011 11:05 AM CST up reply actions  

Ronnie is having a great start

I love everything about his game. His shot is ugly, but he isn’t jacking up shots when there’s a better alternative, so credit stronger defense when he’s forced to shoot. The makes are gravy and, yeah, he more than makes up for it with baseline cuts and finishing fastbreaks — not to mention all of the fastbreaks he’ll create with steals.

As for Korver, he seems to be on a need-based usage. He’s clearly behind Lu, Rip, and Ronnie in the rotation. We’re just not seeing plays set up for 3s unless the Bulls have a deficit to cover. Otherwise, 3s are tertiary options in plays. The skills of the other three wing players better compliment the higher-percentage options for now. As the season goes on, we’ll see more Korver. He has active feet and we’ll see the rest pay off for big nights on the tail-ends of back-to-backs throughout the season, I expect.

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by Alex Sonty on Dec 30, 2011 10:53 AM CST up reply actions   2 recs

There was some kid wearing a Rasual Butler Bulls' jersey at the Bradley Center last night.

Like 1.) Those exist 2.) There is a ten-year old boy who un-ironically wears it.

"Why can't Chapu be MVP of the league?" - Derrick Rose

by chapuforyou on Dec 30, 2011 10:58 AM CST reply actions   1 recs

cheapass parents

knew the kid wouldn’t be able to tell the difference

"Sportsmanship is just loser talk for losing."

by boyonthedock on Dec 30, 2011 2:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Can't be more than $15 at TJ Maxx

Pretty common for parents to buy growing young boys only the cheapest of the cheap in otherwise high-priced sports apparel, as they’ll grow out of it soon anyway.

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by Alex Sonty on Dec 30, 2011 11:02 AM CST up reply actions  

I don't believe they printed Rasual Butler jerseys.

SOMEONE HAD TO CUSTOMIZE IT SO IT WOULD SAY BUTLER #45. WHICH IS AWESOME

"Why can't Chapu be MVP of the league?" - Derrick Rose

by chapuforyou on Dec 30, 2011 11:08 AM CST up reply actions   2 recs

Also, this is at a Marquette game.

Jimmy Butler went to Marquette. I am sure the jersey didn’t say #21.

"Why can't Chapu be MVP of the league?" - Derrick Rose

by chapuforyou on Dec 30, 2011 11:15 AM CST up reply actions  

This is true

Not only does that take real effort, but it costs a good amount too. Last time I checked, I think it was well over $200 to customize a jersey. So yeah, that guy must’ve really liked Rasual Butler

Sadly, my self worth is almost entirely based upon the outcome of the previous night's Bulls game.

by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 30, 2011 11:31 AM CST up reply actions  

ESPN shop sells them for $50 for youth jersey's

The kid's out of this world. He's got Allen Iverson speed, Jason Kidd's vision, Chauncey Billups' shooting ability and Michael Jordan's athleticism. How do you guard that? - Pacers coach Frank Vogel.

by majoyenrac on Dec 30, 2011 12:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Really? Customizable ones?

Damn, that’s solid. I haven’t checked the price since I wanted to get a Noc one way beck when, so I guess the prices have went down big time

Sadly, my self worth is almost entirely based upon the outcome of the previous night's Bulls game.

by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 30, 2011 12:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah I was like hmm I thought I saw them for less (I was looking a bit last year

for my newborn, but they only had youth ones.

But when I went to either Dicks sporting goods or maybe nba.com or both, they were like the $225 or so you talked about.

So I thought I know I saw that somewhere, and sure enough ESPN had ‘em. shop.espn.com I think adults are only a bit more expensive. I’m sure they’re not quite as nice as the $200+ ones, but they are adidas so they can’t be too bad.

The kid's out of this world. He's got Allen Iverson speed, Jason Kidd's vision, Chauncey Billups' shooting ability and Michael Jordan's athleticism. How do you guard that? - Pacers coach Frank Vogel.

by majoyenrac on Dec 30, 2011 12:52 PM CST up reply actions  

I was happy when he was part of a nice 3rd quarter run

but it’s just banking on long 2-point jumpers, so then I got a bit sadder.

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"Don't nag, flag!"

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 30, 2011 11:45 AM CST up reply actions  

Nothing in games gets me more upset than our bigs jacking J's.

I cringe any time Boozer, Jo or Taj start launching from anywhere outside of five feet. Thibs needs to get electric collars for each of them and anytime they shoot a J he can press a button and give them an electric shock. It’s the only way they’ll ever learn.

by dakoose on Dec 30, 2011 11:59 AM CST up reply actions  

Every big on every time jacks Js

I dont see it a problem, esp when the shot clock is down

by Trey23 on Dec 30, 2011 12:03 PM CST up reply actions  

Well, only one of our bigs can make them, that being Boozer.

But even so, he’s so much better when he’s backing down his man. Even if he misses after getting close to the bucket on a legit post-up, the chance for an offensive rebound or tip in is there. A J is typically one and done.

With Jo and Taj, they’re just awful shooters and have no business shooting jumpers. They’re garbage men who should sprinkle in the occasional jump hook.

by dakoose on Dec 30, 2011 12:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Yes ideally, they need to stay near the rim

Esp Taj on every screen he sets, he stands there ready for the pick and pop

by Trey23 on Dec 30, 2011 12:10 PM CST up reply actions  

I think in his mind, he's a stretch 4.

But game in and game out he’s at his best when he stays around the glass.

by dakoose on Dec 30, 2011 12:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Booz can make them

Taj not so much. I rather have Taj grabbing rebounds

by JustAnotherFan on Dec 30, 2011 12:04 PM CST up reply actions  

I would say inside ten feet is okay.

I’ll even go with 15 feet for Boozer.

To be fair, some of those shots do come with the shot clock winding down.

by Tim S. on Dec 30, 2011 12:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Unfortunately...

That is what Boozer is…a fadeaway jump shooter. He doesn’t pick and roll and he doesn’t back guys down. Thibs has not corrected, so he tacitly approves.

New signature coming...but its a process.

by Dionysus2.0 on Dec 30, 2011 2:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Boozer does occasionally back down

And it almost always works. That’s what’s so frustrating.

Taj isn’t nearly as good with his back to the basket so it’s more understandable to see him launching Js

by tuluse on Dec 30, 2011 9:16 PM CST up reply actions  

Anybody else wonder why Thibs doesn't get more creative on offense?

The league is all about mismatches, yet the Bulls never createone for their best player. Through three games, the only intentional switches they’ve forced have been for Lu and Rip, with each going to the post after smaller guys switch onto them. Thibs needs to have Boozer actually set a hard screen and force a 4 or 5 to switch onto Rose, then get the fuck outta there and leave Rose on an island with a big guy on him. That’s easy points every damn time.

If indeed Rose has some post-moves now, they can do the same thing when the other team has a smaller guy guarding the 2, like the Kings with Thornton. There’s not reason They couldn’t run a 1-2 PnR last night and get Rose on the blocks against Thornton.

by dakoose on Dec 30, 2011 12:04 PM CST reply actions   2 recs

Rose got mismatches in no. 8

Of this video

Of course, if Boozer’s guarded by a PG, then that’s a mismatch, too.

Get the switch, let Rose blow by him and take the layup if it’s there, draw a couple defenders and Boozer just might be open. Though I have no confidence that he will finish it. The bigger the difference in players, the better the mismatch, right? Jo can set screens, and should.

by cubbybear on Dec 30, 2011 12:12 PM CST up reply actions  

That's kind of the idea,

but in a more controlled manner. That play was broken and the shot clock was down, and ideally they’d force Dirk to switch onto him, not a plus-athlete like Marion. But that’s a good find, as it clearly illustrates my point.

The PnR would also be more effective if the Bulls were able to land a guy that can really knock down mid-range J’s effectively. David Lee would be a better fit for the PnR than Booz.

by dakoose on Dec 30, 2011 12:16 PM CST up reply actions  

I know that Marion's a good athlete, and normally wouldn't be such a mismatch, but he played matador that time.

Boozer is a very good shooting big man, and that will also force the switch, since his man has to cover him out there. He was pretty much the best PnR big man for a while at Utah.

by cubbybear on Dec 30, 2011 12:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, he was real easy to get by that time.

I don’t think he’s a

very good shooting big man.
He can shoot alright for a 4, but that’s not the point. He’s got a big, broad body with a full array of post moves; jump shots should be an afterthought, he should be dominant inside against the likes of GS and SAC.

by dakoose on Dec 30, 2011 12:23 PM CST up reply actions   2 recs

It takes a practice or 2 to install a 1-2, 1-4 or 1-5 PnR.

It’s not complicated. Spread the floor, bring up the screen, set it hard to force the switch and then vacate.

by dakoose on Dec 30, 2011 12:42 PM CST up reply actions  

I think you are being too hard on Booz and too soft on our wings

The Bulls outside D was awful. Remind me of those last year’s beatings NY gave us. Even Deng didn’t have a good night on D (for his standards). Tyreke passed by Rose more than a few times. And those FT missed by the Kings really helped us.

by JustAnotherFan on Dec 30, 2011 12:07 PM CST reply actions  

It was a bad defensive night all around.

Defensive possessions don’t end until you secure the rebound, and the Bulls let Sacramento grab way too many offensive boards.

by dakoose on Dec 30, 2011 12:08 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

I think all that will come

Other than the Heat (and even they had a clunker in Charlotte), I haven’t really been impressed by any of the so called “contending” teams

Sadly, my self worth is almost entirely based upon the outcome of the previous night's Bulls game.

by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 30, 2011 12:44 PM CST up reply actions  

Derrick just doesn't have very good defensive instincts

The fact that a player as quick as him has no steals through three games kinda tells you all you need to know. He has gotten better at staying in front of people, so hopefully with more time he can improve in other areas.

Sadly, my self worth is almost entirely based upon the outcome of the previous night's Bulls game.

by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 30, 2011 12:39 PM CST up reply actions  

i think steals are somewhat overrated

and not necessarily an actually good defensive measure. i’d much rather have him stay in front of his man and get blocks, which he does pretty well.

Look
I didn’t want to offend anyone by saying the "f" word or generalizing my statement to any particular sex by saying "gays" or lesbians" or "bi’s" so "homos" is the most "politically correct" term. I’m just trying to be more tact in a tactless blog.

by Hindut Patrol on Feb 15, 2011 2:51 PM EST

by Jaina on Dec 30, 2011 1:04 PM CST up reply actions   2 recs

Yeah, I kinda agree

But I think it’s a little different when it comes to the pg position (particularly in this defense). Seeing as it’s already so hard to stay in front of guys due to the rules that help guards penetrate, getting a steal, or overplaying the lanes on the perimeter, is a very sound way to play defense imo. Even Derrick has talked about how wants to “overhelp” a lot more this year. Which obviously means that it is something Thibs is preaching to him.

Sadly, my self worth is almost entirely based upon the outcome of the previous night's Bulls game.

by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 30, 2011 1:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Steals are still an important aspect of perimeter defense, especially for a point guard.

He doesn’t need to gamble, but he can still use his size and quickness to disrupt the ballhandler.

by Ozzie Montana on Dec 30, 2011 1:10 PM CST up reply actions  

i'm not diminishing it completely

obviously it’s still useful. and he should improve in that area, i agree. i was just saying that i think they’re overrated in terms of calling someone a good defender. def wasn’t implying that him having no steals through three games was a good thing!

Look
I didn’t want to offend anyone by saying the "f" word or generalizing my statement to any particular sex by saying "gays" or lesbians" or "bi’s" so "homos" is the most "politically correct" term. I’m just trying to be more tact in a tactless blog.

by Hindut Patrol on Feb 15, 2011 2:51 PM EST

by Jaina on Dec 30, 2011 1:28 PM CST up reply actions  

problem with steals are

its the player who comes up with the ball who gets the steal, ive seen rose tap enough balls lose, but its usually one of the bigs who ends up coming up with it

I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!

by piccolomair on Dec 30, 2011 4:03 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

that is a good point

i bet Thibs and the teams that use advanced stats keep track of ‘turnovers caused.’ He knocked the ball off of some big’s leg yesterday and he forced a turnover on a Fisher fastbreak in the LA game. Two examples of him causing turnovers without getting credit for a steal.

by Basketball Smurf on Dec 30, 2011 5:45 PM CST up reply actions  

The Bulls perimeter D...

Has been pretty bad all season, outside of some good plays by Deng and Brewer.

New signature coming...but its a process.

by Dionysus2.0 on Dec 30, 2011 2:02 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

In terms of managing Deng's minutes,

Deng’s minutes (40 minutes per game) are high, but there are lots of other players who are over 35 minutes per game, including many who approach 40 and three who equal or exceed Deng. I’m not sure five minutes a game makes that much difference. There’s no evidence that there were more injuries than usual during the last lockout-shortened season. The bigger problem is lack of practice time because there are fewer days off.

by Tim S. on Dec 30, 2011 12:52 PM CST reply actions  

There is always a risk of injury.

But Deng is in his prime, in great condition, plays great defense without fouling, showed no signs of tiring, and is clearly better than anyone who would replace him for five minutes a game. If playing him an extra five minutes a game will win the team another five games per season, maybe it is worth the risk. Michael Jordan played heavy minutes throughout his career with the Bulls, even towards the end of his career with the Bulls. Sometimes that is necessary, especially when home court advantage will mean so much in the Eastern Conference Finals.

by Tim S. on Dec 30, 2011 1:38 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm not talking about injuries

I’m talking about just being physically worn down and tired at the end of the season. Not having the same energy you had at the beginning of the year at the end of the year. That is what concerns me more than some vague injury concern. I fear if you overplay Deng he may get worn down. I don’t know if 5 extra minutes of Deng on every night is needed to win. don’t think he needed to play 40 last night for instance. He is going to have to be on the top of his game for the Bulls to get past the Heat and on a compressed schedule fatigue may play more of a factor.

by Basketball Smurf on Dec 30, 2011 1:49 PM CST up reply actions  

There's no way in hell Deng playing an extra five minutes will win the team five extra games

unless the person replacing him is purposefully sabotaging the team. I love Lu, but let’s not overstate his importance. He’s an outstanding defender, but the drop off between him and Ronnie defensively is minimal imo.

Sadly, my self worth is almost entirely based upon the outcome of the previous night's Bulls game.

by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 30, 2011 1:59 PM CST up reply actions  

I think one of the problems is that Thibs often leves him in the game in situations

where he really doesn’t need to be. Can’t think of any specific situations off the top of my head, but there seems to be so many different instances where people are screaming during game threads for Thibs to give him a break.

Sadly, my self worth is almost entirely based upon the outcome of the previous night's Bulls game.

by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 30, 2011 1:05 PM CST up reply actions  

My problem is there are serveral moments when Deng is in the game

but he isn’t really doing anything. He had 9 shots. He wasn’t exactly matched up with Lebron James or Durant. There was ample time at the end of the 1st / beginning of the 2nd and again at the end of the 3rd / begging of the 4th to sit him down. Its like he has become Thibs security blanket. With Brewer-Korver-Hamilton there is no reason to not trust the other guys.

by Basketball Smurf on Dec 30, 2011 1:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Maybe Thibs and Lu are soul mates.

And he never wants Lu to leave his sight.

by Ozzie Montana on Dec 30, 2011 1:15 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

That's a different matter.

You are arguing that Deng’s back-ups can do the job as well at least for five more minutes a game. Thibs apparently disagrees. If you are right, then yes, it would be good to avoid the risk of injury, even if it is slight. But if Thibs is right, then it would be good to avoid the risk of a loss, even though doing so slightly increases the risk of injury.

Plus, if Deng’s back-ups are that good, what about the risk that they will get injured? Does someone who plays 40 minutes per game have a significantly greater chance of injury than two players who play 20 minutes per game?

by Tim S. on Dec 30, 2011 1:43 PM CST up reply actions  

You're right that there really is no real way of knowing for sure that "more minutes" = "Greater injury risk"

but I think the idea is that: simply being on the floor presents an opportunity for injury that otherwise wouldn’t be there if he was on the bench. And a few extra minutes here, and a few extra minutes there, and eventually we’re talking about a good amount of time during the course of a season where Deng is at risk in situation where he really doesn’t need to be.

Sadly, my self worth is almost entirely based upon the outcome of the previous night's Bulls game.

by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 30, 2011 1:54 PM CST up reply actions  

If he "really doesn't need to be,"

then, as I said, you are right and Thibs is wrong. But if he does “need to be,” and he isn’t playing badly because he is tired, then it is worth the risk of playing him.

by Tim S. on Dec 30, 2011 3:08 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

I disagree with your take on Noah v. Asik

I thought Asik was the one getting punked by Cousins. Noah forced him into a bad shooting night. Cousins got a couple of his baskets while being guarded by Asik. Asik did adjust once and picked up a crucial charge, but I think Noah was doing the job most of the night. Other than a drive and reverse jam, I didn’t think Cousins could do much against Noah. Noah’s problem was that he wasn’t securing the boards which led to a lot of silly fouls.

Btw Cousins is 45% Rasheed Wallace, 35% Zach Randolph, 10% Ron Artest and 10% Eddy Curry. Not exactly a stable mix. I’ve seen 2 Kings games and he seemed to have self destructed in both.

by Basketball Smurf on Dec 30, 2011 1:17 PM CST reply actions  

I agree with your 'percentage assessments' about Cousins and

it really is a damn shame because Interior players that have as many terrific post moves as DeMarcus has is such a rarity to see in the NBA.

"The advanced metrics guys do not like Derrick Rose very much." - Bills Simmons podcast 2/4

by RogersPark Kris on Dec 30, 2011 1:33 PM CST up reply actions  

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