Warriors swarm, steal, and run their way past Bulls
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 27, 2011 8:59 AM CST
Email
Print| Team | |||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| CHI | |||||||
| GSW |
While there were few better options for an offseason acquisition than Rip Hamilton, what his addition definitely won't do is make up the athleticism gap the Bulls have against some teams. The Warriors, led by their two lead-guard lineup of Monta Ellis and Stephen Curry, proved to be quicker in all aspects last night. From completely shredding the initial defensive layer, to drawing fouls, to crowding and swiping the ball on defense, they made the Bulls look slower and older than a team that's really not that much of either.
It starts with the one guy who's supposed to be the youngest and fastest, and only fair that it does the same as after thrilling victories: Derrick Rose. Those covering the team seemed to have their storyline ready of Rose's supernatural revenge-focused mindset, though I've thought he's the type to treat every game seriously, because of last year's debacle in Oakland. But Rose again varied from 'facilitator' to 'listless', depending on your viewing mindset. Rose only really took it upon himself to score when it looked to be already over, and by then the three-pointers needed weren't falling, as he was 1-8 from that range on his way to a miserable 4-17 shooting performance.
It's not news that when Rose isn't playing at MVP-type levels, the Bulls aren't that great of a team. But what's more worrisome is when Rose is subpar and the rest don't even look to be above average. And it starts with what should be the Bulls #2 option, Carlos Boozer. Boozer not only had an anemic 6 points in his 26 minutes, but he was consistently abused by his contemporary (in position and salary) David Lee. Boozer was also partly responsible for no less than three turnovers where Rip Hamilton failed to connect on an entry pass. Noah fared slightly better and Taj Gibson was part of a desperation comeback unit in the 4th quarter, but the entire Bulls frontcourt looked not only slow themselves, but fairly weak: often not being able to finish or getting the ball stripped before they even had a chance to.
One hero of Monday night was Luol Deng, who looked as aggressive as he did on opening day with even better results, finishing with 22 points on 15 attempts. He played 41 minutes as he's a part of any kind of lineup Thibs looked for, whether it was the starting unit or the small-ball that finished out the game (in which Noah, Boozer, and Hamilton all sat). In fact, the true 'bench mob' unit was barely out there tonight, a strategy I applaud but only works if Deng and Boozer actually can carry the offense for stretches. Watson and Korver provided some needed threes (Korver's a bit too late) but there was not much else that went right.
The Warriors are a unique problem for the Bulls, and Ellis's shooting was streaky-good. Though Golden State isn't coming to the United Center, this season it doesn't mean that the Bulls won't have to face a similar situation again. Whether it was their backcourt being consistently beaten on transition or their frontcourt looking cement-shoed compared to their counterparts, the Bulls did not respond well to an active, high-paced opponent. The Bulls usually can find a way to stink those teams out by forcing tough shots, but their own turnovers made that impossible. It'll probably be a rare sight this season, but on the other hand there's a potentially similar yet much better opponent that often looks too-athletic themselves.
120 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Maybe I'm overreacting but are any of these scenarios possible:
1. Rose has become complacent because of all the $$$ he now has. I know, I know, that’s blasphemy but he’s still human. I’m thinking JJ here, maybe, just maybe.
2. Bulls are overrated. We may have just snuck up on the whole league last year and they are simply ready for us this year.
3. Noah is not as good as we thought he was. Or see #1 above
4. Team chemistry is overrated. As long as you are getting the Ws, you can call it chemistry and what-not. But when you start to lose, you begin to think if we really have enough talent to get it done. I mean, yes Rose is good but when has a team won anything with a PG being the super star?
We still have 64 games to go, hope I’m wrong about everything above. Warriors just made us look downright silly all night.
You are overreacting.
A true friend stabs you in the front - Oscar Wilde
by dantheman3k on Dec 27, 2011 9:05 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
#1 is very unlikely
and any overrated talk has to go with who’s rating them and how high. Are they not as good as YOU thought they were?
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 27, 2011 9:15 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
We don't know yet
$94 mil is a LOT of money for a 23 yr old to handle. Again, I hope I’m wrong.
I’m sorta comparing them to the Heat since they seem to be the team to beat in the East. Bulls were not as good as what I thought they were against the Warriors. In fact, even against the Lakers they weren’t exactly taking names, if not for Deng going into beast mode the last few minutes. The team has just looked downright ordinary the last two games. Makes me worry for sure.
He's definitely wrong.
To believe what he believes he’d have to ignore 3 years of evidence to the contrary.
Wow
Rose was god awful, but this its a huge overreaction. Did you watch the lakers game at all? It’s gonna take time. The lockout is going to cause problems. Relax.
"Mental toughness is to physical as four is to one." - Bob Knight
by DRose01 on Dec 27, 2011 9:25 AM CST via Android app up reply actions
I'd like to point out that
Rose was not the reason we won that game. It was because of Deng even though everyone likes to think Rose saved us. Deng was in every play those final few minutes including the game saving block on Kobe.
It is a team sport
So you’re right, Rose wasn’t the sole reason for the victory, but Rose still hit some key threes when no one was scoring and hit the game winner.
So you’re attempt to discredit Rose’ impact on the game is just further proof of your irrational state post loss.
"The advanced metrics guys do not like Derrick Rose very much." - Bills Simmons podcast 2/4
by RogersPark Kris on Dec 27, 2011 9:31 AM CST up reply actions
Since I hold Rose up to a very high standard
I am comfortable discrediting him for the Lakers win. Rose is better than what he showed us the last two games. I don’t know what it is but he has simply not played up to his potential so far. Maybe he’s saving himself for the rest of the brutal season but playing this way is not going to get it done. Maybe its Thibs plan. That’s why I’m not an NBA coach.
I've been pretty certain Rose has been faking that he actually wanted to win
I bet he missed those 13 shots on purpose too. Greedy bastard.
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 27, 2011 9:53 AM CST up reply actions
Sarcasm aside
Sorry, that is not Rose’s game. JBJ summed it up pretty good below. Rose needs to go back to what he did last year. He needs to fight through these double teams and drive more to either get a bucket, get fouled or kick out to an open team mate. Not this crap where he’s trying to use his new and improved IQ.
2 games. 2 games
JBJ overreacts like this every time the Bulls lose. Go check the postgame threads last year. In 20 losses you’ll probably see 17 Rose needs to play better rants from JBJ. I laugh b/c I’m not worried about the MVP.
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 27, 2011 10:02 AM CST up reply actions
I'll admit I overreact, but I don't think that's the case here
Just talking about how I think Rose is most effective. I don’t like him shooting all those threes. And that goes back to last year, it’s not just a reaction one game. What did I say that you took issue with?
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 27, 2011 10:17 AM CST up reply actions
I think he was shooting so many 3s because the Bulls were behind so much
pretty much had to jack up shots to have a chance
That's the problem
He shouldn’t be jacking up those three’s and coming up empty. He should go to his mid-range game and chip away at the lead. And what’s up with those fucking turnovers. If there’s one improvement he should’ve made in the off season, it should be learning how to take better care of the ball. Our offense runs through Rose and he needs to be more efficient with it.
by Bullforlife on Dec 27, 2011 10:34 AM CST up reply actions
He only had 3 turnovers in 39 minutes
not great, but not terrible for a guy who is being asked to handle the ball and face traps on every play.
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 27, 2011 10:37 AM CST up reply actions
ok, didn't check the stat on that
But didn’t we have 15+ turnovers as a team. Too many as a team, it felt like we were passing it to the other team all night. And the steals to top it off. what was it – 8 steals or something?
by Bullforlife on Dec 27, 2011 10:40 AM CST up reply actions
they had 16 steals
6 by Curry, 4 by Brown – which is frankly pathetic on the Bulls part.
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 27, 2011 10:43 AM CST up reply actions
I think he was taking so many 3s b/c they weren't guarding him at the 3pt line
which seems like a Mark Jackson move.
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 27, 2011 10:34 AM CST up reply actions
I don't really take issue with it, I'm just giving you a hard time. Its your opinion
I disagree with some of what you say. Like this.
Could it just be that Rose is a GREAT player that is really hard to play with? Because it feels like every year we keep saying the same shit. This guys sucks, or that guy sucks. Anyone new that comes in, we end up hating. Because he’s a PG that doesn’t create, it’s almost a requirement that other players can create their own offense.
I don’t think Rose is hard to play with. A guy willing to defer to lesser players is hard to play with? And the fact of the matter is Rose creates plenty of open shots. No he isn’t Paul. But guys get plenty of wide open shots off the offense and penetration and they don’t knock them down consistently.
I’m sorry, I do blame a good part of Boozer’s struggles on Thibs, and Rose.
Maybe thibs – but I still say Boozer has to show greater versatility. He is like a receiver who can only run 1 route.
I also don’t think his D was as bad as you are making it seem. Curry hit some shots last night. I watched the entire GS-Clips game last night and I can tell you they defended him no differently. He just hit shots tonight and capitalized off Bulls turnovers.
I do think Rose has to get back to attack mode but I don’t think a 2 game experiment in facilitating is all that meaningful. He is looking for the balance. And this I agree with -
He’ll eventually get fed up with mediocrity and go apeshit whether he does those things listed above or not.
I wish the Bulls designed their team to maximize his apeshit-ability. We seem to be reluctant to turn him loose. I guess the idea is that making him play a bit more within the offense will help the team in the long run. But I think the team has it backwards now. Go apeshit, than worry about passing. Not worry about passing, and than go apeshit when you are down 10.
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 27, 2011 10:33 AM CST up reply actions
That's fair
And I very much agree with the last point you made
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 27, 2011 10:37 AM CST up reply actions
The Bulls are too dependent on Rose offensively,
and need constant effort from everyone defensively. They are not yet in mid-season form defensively, and Rose had a bad night offensively.
We shouldn't be though
It’s an O design flaw.
We have a great mid range shooter in Rip, who’s also an active and willing passer from the 2.
We have a decent jack of all trades guy in Deng, who won’t blow you away offensively, but has a decent O game nonetheless (the sum of his O game is better than the parts—he’s a decent mid range shooter, but not premier, he’s a good 3 pt shooter nowadays but not premier, he’s an ok slasher but not premier)….he’s pretty good as a 16-18 ppg scorer, who is freaking consistent in that range rarely less than 12 pts, rarely mor than 24 pts in any contest.
We have Boozer who’s adept at scoring with either hand who granted does need some plays called for him, but whom we never freaking call plays for, which is frustrating.
And Noah while still having that ugly “tornado” shot, tends to hit them well and has developed decent post moves as he’s gone through the league.
Backing them up we have a great score first backup PG in Watson (who’s not a great PG, but a great backup scoring PG);
we have a good slasher in Brewer who keeps being set up to be a jump shooter in our offense for some freaking reason.
We have a premier 3 pt specialist, who we seem to want to use more as a decoy than anything in Korver
We have Gibson, who while his stats show him to be more a d specialist, watching him play you can see he too, like Boozer seems to have more O game than we call for him (I think Thibs wants to call plays for a guy like Taj (D first, similar to KG), but Boozer’s much more an O player, it’s frustrating.
And we have Asik, who is truly just a D first player….
This O better improve, it’s not the players it’s the playcalling…..
The kid's out of this world. He's got Allen Iverson speed, Jason Kidd's vision, Chauncey Billups' shooting ability and Michael Jordan's athleticism. How do you guard that? - Pacers coach Frank Vogel.
All of the Bulls depend on Rose's assists to score.
If Rose has an off night, they generally struggle on offense, and will be average or below average on offense no matter what schemes Thibs draws up. If Rose has an off night, they need to play defense for 48 minutes they way they did for the last five minutes of the first two games.
That being said, I agree that Thibs’ offensive scheme leaves much to be desired. Perhaps he had planned to put it in place, but simply did not have enough time with the team this off season.
Ok...
1) I’ve never gotten that reasoning. People really think these stars just stop trying after they get paid? It may mess with the player’s head for a few weeks, but really?
2) Doubt it. We played a terrible defensive game last night. GS has done that to us twice in two years. However, the Pacers are pretty good and we handled them just fine. The Lakers are good and we stuck to them. We are beating playoff teams. GS is part fluke, part poor execution.
3) I’ve never claimed Noah was “good”. He serves a purpose. He hustles, gets offensive rebounds, and provides that energetic spark. For the last two years, Noah has had about 11ppg and 11rpg. Perhaps you were misled, but that is not overwhelming.
4) Chemistry, overated? In all my time playing sports and watching sports, a team that likes each other (2011 St. Louis Cardinals) can go much further than a team who does not. I feel that it is one of the most underrated concepts in sports. When has a team won with a pg as the star? Magic Johnson comes to mind. Jerry West. Do you really need examples?
You are well past the “overreacting” line, my friend
"There are two ways to argue with a woman, and neither of them work."
- Carlos Boozer after cancelling an interview with a Sports Illustrated reporter because his wife was expecting him home.
I think winning usually leads to players liking each other
I mean I think the 49ers won a Superbowl with Charles Haley calling Joe Montana a fag and exposing himself in locker room.
The Cowboys won one while Michael Irving was coked up, threatening teammates with scissors.
Partially agree but
1) I’ve more often than not seen players let the money get to their heads and let their play regress. And its not just in basketball. Ex: Agent Zero, Boo-fucking-zer, JJ, Rashard Lewis. Its not unprecedented.
2) All I’m saying is that the other teams are now ready for us and we can’t sneak up on them anymore. They know the Bulls win if Rose plays well and if they contain him, they have a pretty good shot at winning the ball game. The Pacers almost did it to us in the playoffs last year and the Heat succeeded. Warriors gave everyone the game film to work off of and they’ve done it again this year. As it stands today, the Bulls are a below-average team without Rose.
3) And Noah has shown none of that since the season ended last year including the playoffs. Why? He’s playing like shit right now.
4) Talent almost always wins out. Last year’s ECF was a perfect example. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen but winning with just chemistry is rare. Detroit did it but that’s just one instance. Again, Chemistry is automatic when you are winning, not so straight forward when you begin to lose. Jordan’s teams didn’t have great chemistry and they went apeshit on championship runs on pure talent.
Magic had Kareem who was also a super star. Magic was way more than just a PG. In most teams, he would be play the 2.
a few more rebuttals in list form
1) the difference is you named all these 2nd fiddle guys. None of them “run” the franchise. The pressure they feel is nothing to what a Rose, Kobe, LBJ, Howard feels. That pressure and scrutiny makes it almost impossible to take that attitude.
2) We are who we are. We present several tough matchups for other teams. You say that the blueprint to beating us is doubling Rose and I say it is their only hope. The only thing I’m anxious about is the absolute lack of production from the bench mob. I blame Korver.
3) Noah was injured last season and never played like he did in the early stages last year. I’d argue that he couldn’t have kept up the 15 and 15 he was getting. He will be fine, I am sure of it.
4) Chemistry is more than just liking your teammates. It is understanding the pecking order on the team and what is required of you, accepting that role, and working with others on the team to improve as a group.
"There are two ways to argue with a woman, and neither of them work."
- Carlos Boozer after cancelling an interview with a Sports Illustrated reporter because his wife was expecting him home.
Most disgusting stat of the night
Kwame Brown +21 in 23 minutes…
by BAB-Bass on Dec 27, 2011 9:16 AM CST reply actions 5 recs
Rose has gotta get back to his mid range game. Everything else will come off of that.
When he’s playing at the elbows it puts more pressure on the defense to guard him, and then he can use his driving game to attack the basket and draw fouls, score, or dump the ball off to a teammate.
Then the pick n roll with Boozer needs to be way more incorporated into the offense. We’re completely wasting Boozer’s talents. I could just imagine us amnestying him (not that I think we will, just being hypothetical), then he goes to some other team and is damn good again. He’s not an isolation player, yet that’s how we’re using him (speasking of, how about isolating Rose a little more thibs?!?!?!).
Then, after Rose gets these things going, he can take a couple (2-3) OPEN threes every game. But only WIDE open, or if he’s obviously hot from out there. At this point, he’s looking for that shot and it’s completely bailing out the opposing defense. If he takes more, he should be fined or something. If he goes 1-8 like he did today, they need to take his Skittles machine.
Rose was at his best last year when he was drawing a ton of fouls. I thought he finally figured it out. He has to get back to that. This is year 4 of his NBA career, he’s never gonna be a Chris Paul type of player, so we need to stop trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, and instead, play to his strengths. He’s still absolutely a top 4 or 5 guard in this league, and top 8-10 player overall, every year, even if he’s not a great passer/playmaker.
Also, his defense has to improve. He’s an extremely lazy defender. He gets caught flat-footed so often it’s ridiuculous. He can’t anticipate for shit. Every time a player makes a move on him, it’s like it’s the first time he’s ever seen it. He jumps or slides to spots to get in front of a guy, and then settles in, as if the guy can’t maneuver around him. Not sure how you correct that, or if you even can. We might just have to hope that it doesn’t hurt us too bad.
To me, these aren’t even drastic changes that have to be made. His mid range jumper was always money, but he got caught up in the three for some reason, rather than drawing fouls (personally I think he really hates contact, which is understandable for a little dude, but he’s gotta fight through that if he wants to be great).
And even though the Rose situation has gotten tons of hype, I still think that’s the least of our problems. He’ll eventually get fed up with mediocrity and go apeshit whether he does those things listed above or not. I’m much more interesetd in finding out how Noah has turned into a flaming pile of suck, or if Thibs is horrible at coaching offense. Because I don’t care how much people bitch about our guys; be it Boozer, or Rip, or Taj, or Korver… WHOEVER, there is a lot of talent on this team, and there is NO reason for us to be playing this way offensively.
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 27, 2011 9:22 AM CST reply actions 3 recs
I'm over Boozer. Until he can play an all-star in a Chicago uniform
I’m not going to expect or treat him like one. The fact of the matter is the Bulls need another iso guy, not someone with the same post skills as Noah. I’ve yet to see a team pick and roll their way to a championship so the fetish-azation of that offense is strange to me. You have Josh McRoberts and David Lee guarding you and you still struggle to impact a game? Dils is right, we aren’t paying the guy $15 million dollars to shoot wide open jumpers.
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 27, 2011 10:00 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Well, we have him for four more years, so we better figure out some way to make it work
This ain’t baseball, you can’t have $15 million worth of dead money just hanging around and expect to win big. If he plays well out of the pnr, we should probably try and use it a little more often
I agree that it sucks that we have to go out of our way to accommodate a player making that kind of money, but what are you gonna do?
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 27, 2011 10:05 AM CST up reply actions
Nah forget the four years
He needs to be amnestied at the end of this year
Hey Rose. I don't see the appeal!
Are you going to give him his 15 mil/per?
Generally you’re going to give your max contract more than 1 year and 2 games. We’re still better with boozer than without. If there is a can’t miss situation then go for it, but otherwise you’re just letting someone walk for space with no one worth to use it on.
by thatballhitdeepwayback on Dec 27, 2011 11:43 AM CST up reply actions
"We’re still better with boozer than without."
You know I keep hearing this but apparently his own coach doesn’t think so because he’s on the bench when it matters most. I don’t believe we’re a better team. I’d rather amnesty him and try to bring in pieces that fit this team better. I honestly believe this team would be better with Mayo at SG and Hansborough or Nene at PF. That’s how down I am on Carlos Boozer.
Hey Rose. I don't see the appeal!
Nene instead of Booz?
Sign me up. I’d go as far to say that I’d rather have Brandon Bass, Amir Johnson, Hansbrough, Humphries, Gortat or Millsap over this bum.
Boozer is garbage... I was ready to amnesty him after last season
Believe it or not… I was ready to sell him after that Toronto game early last year. He and Bosh have the same problem. If he decided not to care about offense and only focused on defense and rebounding, I think his offensive numbers would actually go up (stops leading to transition or early offense the other way).
Unfortunately, he is who he is. An offensive minded player who can be effective when he gets a lot of touches as a finisher of a play, be it in a pick and pop or some kind of motion offense. He’s a rhythm big man if that makes any sense. But that’s not going to work well given the current make up of the team.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
I think Rose is doing the right thing
Championship caliber teams don’t need home court advantage to win the title. If Derrick is trying to facilitate more, that’s all the better… even if it takes all year to figure it out. To your point, he’s not as good at it as some of the other lead guards, but that’s a failure of the FO for wasting his learning years with an idiot coach.
The jury is still out on Thibs’ abilities as an offensive coach, but its early. I think the bigger concern is the potential of having two defensive liabilities in the starting line up – Boozer and Hamilton. Hamilton is a double negative b/c I wonder if the offense is ever going to be catered to him. When he was in Detroit, the offense was run for him, vis a vis all the screens set to free him. That might not ever happen here, and he’s not the kind of stand still shooter that can go with few touches. He’s a rhythm shooter.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
You are spot on
The 3 point shooting from Rose needs to stop. This looks like the same offense that struggled in the playoffs last year. Boozer and Noah can’t convert anything inside and Rose stands behind the 3 point line. It almost looks like he fears contact in the lane and is content to be a long range shooter which is a recipe for disaster. Mid range jumpers, drive and dish, drive and finish are what is needed from Rose. Unless he plays like an MVP this team is average.
"Fundamentals are a crutch for the talentless" Kenny Powers
by Duck99 on Dec 27, 2011 10:08 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
That's not 100 percent true
The Bulls win plenty of games simply by playing dominating defense.
"The advanced metrics guys do not like Derrick Rose very much." - Bills Simmons podcast 2/4
by RogersPark Kris on Dec 27, 2011 10:10 AM CST up reply actions
but on the other hand there’s a potentially similar yet much better opponent that often looks too-athletic themselves.
Yup, that team is the Heat, and they’re basically the Warriors on steroids (literally? hmm…).
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 27, 2011 9:23 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
i'd care less about Boozer's defense if he was as impactful as he could be on offense
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 27, 2011 10:03 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
^This.
Boozer’s offensive prowess has to outstrip his defensive failings if he’s going to be useful to us. If it’s not, there’s no reason to not go to Taj. Whether it’s trying to get him involved in the PnR game or whatever, he’s gotta be the 20 and 10 guy out there or he needs to come off the bench. My ideal would be to play Noah at the 4 and play Omer at the 5; Noah would be the “KG” and Omer would be the “Kendrick Perkins” in the defensive scheme.
by CowBearsFan on Dec 27, 2011 10:50 AM CST up reply actions
I like that line up myself. Taj’s effort is great, but it doesn’t make up for it when you’re up against a taller athletic player. Booz should be coming off the bench against Sacramento. Thibs needs to send a message now. 3 reb and 6 points?? Can we say pay cut?
by mastergabe13 on Dec 27, 2011 11:12 AM CST up reply actions
i just went to check the box
6 pts, 3 rebs is disgusting for someone getting paid like that. anyone one of us here on BaB could have scored and rebounded more than 6 pts, 3 rebs in the same game i think.
It's those damned frenzied PF teams that always cause us trouble
The David Lee’s, Tyler Hansborogh’s, Josh McRoberts, type of players (Josh Smith too).
Those teams always cause us issue, and Golden State is one of hte best of those, especially if Biedrins plays hard and flails at every rebound and especially if Kwame Brown looks like he’s actually an NBA player….
They had a good game, but our strength defensively is predicated on our bigs moving, and when a team with these not as physically gifted as others but play hard at every position comes to town, we’ve tended to struggle.
That coupled with the fact that Monta Ellis was hitting everyting in sight (And the activity of the bigs opened up the lanes as Noah was trying for everything there to no avail)….
It’s a tough loss. Do I think there’s enough to sound the alarm? No I don’t. I think it’s a bad loss on a very Western Conference esque foe, that plays still a pretty unique style.
I don’t see really any similarities between them and the Heat. Bosh is hardly one of those non stop pushing PF’s, that cause us trouble.
I know the Heat have their own thing with the great (and he is great) Lebron and the not quite the talent of Lebron, but perhaps a better player D. Wade to deal with, but let’s not get ahead of ourselves. Our team is set up more for the Heat (Rose and Noah are our strengths, something at the spots the Heat are the weakest).
I do agree, yesterday was an awful Boozer game. I liked Boozer in game 1, but yesterday he was horribly useless.
I do think Rip if he can stay out of foul trouble early will prove a nice addition….
I don’t take too much stock in these first 2 games really, but especially yesterday. I think our team needs to remember to come prepared on these back to backs, especially this year which is a back to back to back kind of year….
Oh well.
Oh and a few more games like this and Luol Deng better be made an all star, who’da thunk that a bit of Thibadeau is all he’s needed (and he looks like he’s bulking up too).
The kid's out of this world. He's got Allen Iverson speed, Jason Kidd's vision, Chauncey Billups' shooting ability and Michael Jordan's athleticism. How do you guard that? - Pacers coach Frank Vogel.
Stephan Curry is the one PG that troubles Rose ( in Oakland); based on a small sample size
Since a lot of people praised Derrick for tearing through all the elite PGs last season, its only fair to use that same “quick reactions” to a guy that troubles him.
Curry (statistically and subjectively) destroyed Derrick in their last two meetings at Golden State. I thought Derrick was going to take last year’s 9 turnover game as a personal challenge and show-up last night. But Golden State’s unbelievably active defense never allowed him/the Bulls to get in any flow.
I know it has something to do with the pace that Golden State plays in their home building, but this is one obstacle( although not vital) that Derrick hasn’t cleared yet.
this should have been the perfect game for D Rose to break out his post game that he’s been working on. I would have rather seen him in the post against Curry, than Boozer!!!
by mastergabe13 on Dec 27, 2011 11:05 AM CST up reply actions
Poor strategy against the Warriors
The Bulls went into this game with the mindset that they were taller and stronger this year, and were going to control the pace of the game by bulling the Warriors in the post. They tried, and failed. I believe the real reason this didn’t work is because of one person, MARK FREAKIN JACKSON, the master undersized post play! I don’t know if many of you remember watching this guy play, but he was the best Post-playing-PG I’ve ever seen. He would destroy smaller PG in the post, and I believe he knew this would be the strategy most team would use against his undersized guards. He has prepared his team to defend the post, not though rough play, but through team work. Come on, Kwame brown and McRoberts? Did you see their help defense?? Did you see how many turnovers we had just from trying to engage in the post. The best post plays we got were from Hamilton out sizing Ellis, but even he adjusted to this strategy.
Combine that with sub-par effort from the front court on our defensive end and it spells disaster. We weren’t flexible at all with the rotations in order to match their speed until it was too late. And that’s all we really needed to do, match their speed, Keep a guy in front of their guards and STIOP FREAKING JUMPING to defend a shot in the lane. Ellis and Curry kill us every time because we try to muscle them (i.e. D Rose knocking curry to the floor a few times), instead of run with them.
Add to it, since I’m venting, that I ABHOR the Bulls’ offensive sets. It’s disgusting to watch! With all the weapons we have, the defense really only need to stand still in order to defend the Bulls’ offensive plays. Come on Thibs, you got to do better than that! This is a really unselfish team, so why do our play rely on so much isolation? Why does the ball stop and guys just stand around the lane allowing their defender to play such easy help defense? GAAAA I’m so angry!
by mastergabe13 on Dec 27, 2011 11:03 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
rec'd
exactly
while W’s really are tough team to play @home
this time Bulls were outcoached -as bad as announcer Mark Jackson probably was he seems to understand the game from players perspective really well
predictable Bulls offense was what made W’s run and gun -Kwame and Biedrins combined for 7 steals -isn’t this saying something about Bulls offense
Kwame picking CJ’s pocket and on other end Curry makes 3
actually it wasn’t like Bulls were too careless with the ball -they were too static and predictable
-i can’t see why it should be so -basketball is team game not manifest of individual dominance
Even if you do succeed most people wouldn't notice anyway.
-Johnny Bravo is my role model -i m pretty
by Lat We N Trash on Dec 28, 2011 4:49 PM CST up reply actions
I guess I choose a good night to watch a movie instead of watching the game.
Was the game as bad as the one last year in Golden State? I know Rose has a tendency to telegraph some of his passes leading to turnovers. Maybe Golden state is just one of those teams that know how to play the Bulls. Even the best teams will lose to a mediocre to bad team on a given night. If this was a seven game series, I don’t think Golden State would take that series.
However, if Rose is going to camp at the 3 point line even though the shot isn’t falling, that’s going to be a problem. Like other people have mentioned, he needs to go back to his mid range game more and attack the basket. Not necessarily the whole game, but enough so the opposing team doesn’t build too big a lead to need an epic comeback. That series against Boston when he was a rookie showed how truly special he is. I think JBJ is right, he’s trying too hard to increase his Basketball IQ which hurts him and I think slows him down a little. I’m not saying he shouldn’t try to increase his Basketball IQ, but not let it get in the way of his natural instincts.
On the J.R. Smith bandwagon until otherwise advised.
the difference is that this year teams are much better prepared. They know to go 100 at dbl-teaming Rose and that his teammates will let him down. Asking him night after night to beat 2-3 defenders is not a good strategy. Albeit neither is sitting behind the 3 point line jacking threes. But its something he has to learn to do. The bulls must learn to spread the floor and they will have to knock down outside shots consistently in order to open up the lanes for Derrick to only have to beat 1-2 guys to the hoop or for that mid range shot.
I hate to say it, but they need to watch that game footage, and copycat Golden state. That’s how they should be playing. Drive and dish instead of this post game crap.
by mastergabe13 on Dec 27, 2011 11:16 AM CST up reply actions
no one had a good game except deng.
that’s it. it’s probably not going to happen again.
by obnoxious american on Dec 27, 2011 11:15 AM CST reply actions
Not even deng
He had what…5 turnovers? That’s terrible for a secondary scorer. He was great scoring the ball, but turned the ball over way too much.
"Mental toughness is to physical as four is to one." - Bob Knight
by DRose01 on Dec 27, 2011 12:43 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
i went to the game last night. what a great experience for my first live bulls game
spent most of the 4th quarter sitting with my face in my hands, screaming NOT KORVER any time he got the ball, and waiting for boozer to get to the line so i could start an amnesty chant, which never happened because he sat on the bench
it’s just so sad to see this team go from the ECF to, from what i could see, a mediocre team. maybe its different seeing it in person than on TV, but almost nothing good happened
"And thank you to God for making me an Atheist." - Ricky Gervais
by MichaelClutchtree on Dec 27, 2011 11:33 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Didn't expect to beat the Warriors in Oakland.
Peace.
I hope I can say I did my best, achieved a lot and won a couple of world championships. - Michael Jordan, circa 1984.
*the Bulls
I hope I can say I did my best, achieved a lot and won a couple of world championships. - Michael Jordan, circa 1984.
Sometimes teams play like shit.
It’s going to happen. Especially this season with so many back to backs, and even more so against a team who’s going to push the tempo on you.
by thatballhitdeepwayback on Dec 27, 2011 11:44 AM CST reply actions
As sweet as the win vs the Lakers was
I still put it in the play-like-shit category
by JustAnotherFan on Dec 27, 2011 11:50 AM CST up reply actions
After a lockout and shortened preseason, there's going to be a lot of sloppy games and weird scores (see Mavs getting blown out twice)
The defense seems a step slow, Rip seems a bit off in the offense and obviously is still getting used to playing with his teammates, Rose is trying to develop parts of his game that don’t require his physical talents to prepare for when he’s 30 or something, Boozer maybe needs to put back on some of that weight he lost especially in the ass region so he can box out or seal off opponents better.
even last season
the Bulls had problems with smaller, quicker, more-athletic teams. The same problem reared its head all night last night.
Sure, the 1-8 on threes from DR didn’t help, but that wasn’t the reason they lost. Bulls played donut defense last night. Ellis and Curry had a field day. If they keep doing that, the L’s will keep stacking up
It makes sense that they struggle defensively against quicker teams
Boozer and Deng are both slow for their position. Rose is a better man defender than help. Noah overplays all the time. They excel in defending isolation but if you can move around a lot and hit 3’s, you have a chance to beat this team.
by berzerkulous on Dec 27, 2011 11:57 AM CST up reply actions
I wonder if Booz took a arrow to the knee
by JustAnotherFan on Dec 27, 2011 11:53 AM CST reply actions
damn skyrim meme
"Violence is not always the answer."
"Violence is the question, and the answers always YES!"
At least he's aware
"I think in the first quarter I’ve got to establish myself a little bit more," said the reigning league MVP who aside from that wonderful game saving floater against the Lakers Christmas Day hasn’t been very valuable at all as the Bulls were bludgeoned 99-91 by the Golden State Warriors Monday. "I see that being laid back is just not doing it. I think both games in the first quarter I shot the ball just one or two times (one of four total and zero free throws). I see that approach is not working. So next game I’ve got to change it up."
by Option27 on Dec 27, 2011 11:53 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
That's the first step
He’s struggling with trying to run an offense and facilitate while still being the primary scorer. Some of this struggle is a playcalling issue, and some is rose not figuring out how to be aggressive and facilitate at the same time. He’ll get there, but it will take time.
"Mental toughness is to physical as four is to one." - Bob Knight
by DRose01 on Dec 27, 2011 12:48 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
What the hell?
I see that being laid back is just not doing it. I think both games in the first quarter I shot the ball just one or two times (one of four total and zero free throws). I see that approach is not working. So next game I’ve got to change it up.
You gotta be retarded to think that being laid back is gonna result in good team play. For the life of me, I don’t understand what the thought process is here. Does he not realize that as he goes, so do the Bulls?
I think Rose's definition of 'being laid back'
is being a ball distributor and allows his teammates to get easy buckets. Good logic, but that doesn’t work when his teammates aren’t making open shots.
by ajayflying23 on Dec 27, 2011 2:01 PM CST up reply actions
But he's not a good distributor.
I follow his logic if he actually could do the things CP3 and Rondo do as distrbutors, but he can’t, so he shouldn’t try to. He needs to do things DRose style.
I agree.
His mode should be to make the other team stop him with one or more help defenders, freeing up another man. If they don’t stop him, then just take it right past them. Distributing is not necessary, since they use so many defenders to stop him that all he has to do is find the open man.
If you watch youtube highlights of some of his higher assist games from last year,
it’s clear that his best passing comes off of penetration, i.e. when he’s looking to score. He doesn’t need to rely on Rondo and CP3 tricks because he can get do things those others can’t in order to free up his teammates.
I dont think he's trying to be cp3 or rondo
I think he’s trying to establish more of an offense instead of having to always create for guys. Sort of how the mavericks played last year with ball movement instead of one guy always creating a shot ala cp3 or rondo. That hasnt work thus far, so he just needs to attack instead of trying to move the ball so much.
Should'nt we have had Noah guard Lee from the start of the game??
I found it real strange that Thibs kept Boozer on Lee.
You always were second best! And in this business, Bub, second best don't *cut* it!
by Yibs on Dec 27, 2011 12:54 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
I was wondering that myself
It’s not like Biedrins gonna go off on booz for 30 and 10….
"Violence is not always the answer."
"Violence is the question, and the answers always YES!"
by T.Moore on Dec 27, 2011 12:57 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
or Kwame
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 27, 2011 12:57 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Deng seemed to guard him alright too.
I’m not suggesting putting Deng on him to start the game, but maybe going to the small lineup sooner (Noah/Deng/Korver or Taj/Deng/Korver) might have been prudent given last year’s debacle.
Noah was playing well in the second half, both with his offense and defense, I see no reason to yank him for the entire fourth.
by JockstrapNoah on Dec 27, 2011 1:01 PM CST up reply actions
I wonder if the plan was to keep Noah on the weaker offensive player
So he was more free to roam and help out
Booz
I’ve seen him shred teams. Notably the Rockets in the playoffs. Can Thibs watch some damn tape and figure out what was working in Utah? What is the upside to amnesty We HAVE to get him going.
And Van Gundy is on the bottom of the pile!
This
WCG's Resident Nickelback and Boy Band fan
Also rated Worst WCG Blogger by Dr. Steven Schweickert's extensive "Total BR" (Blogger Rating)
"Oh Dilfer, give me the strength...
to be as bad a WCG Contributor as you are an announcer/authority on anything. Peace be with you. " (JoetheBoss)
Sloan should be hired as an assistant.
Thibs established himself, and Sloan won’t want to be a head coach again. Seems to be more laid back, avoid being the fall guy.
by cubbybear on Dec 27, 2011 2:34 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
In the Lakers game, I saw him go into the post and back down his defender twice
both times resulted in baskets.
Why doesn’t he do this more? He always seems to face up and force a contested jumper.
As strong as he is,
he’s SUPER SOFT. He prefers to get cute with his face-up game and jumpers instead of backing down his man. I mean, look at who he was up against last night; if I was a big going up against Lee, Kwame Brown and Biedrins, I would be salivating and pounding it inside, not jacking up mid range rainbow J’s.
On the defensive end, he plays lazy, moves his feet poorly, swings at the ball instead of sliding over and easily gives ground to weaker players. He’s a stiff and net negative when he’s doing anything other than scoring down low consistently, which he does about once a month.
I will give you that he played soft this past game
But I have trouble labeling anyone who gets as many rebounds as Boozer soft.
Why is he fine with boxing out, but doesn’t want to back defenders down in the post?
I'll say this much about Boozer....
I never see him grab tough rebounds. He picks up a lot of easy ones and a few in traffic, and despite his numbers looking solid, he’s never looked like all that great of a rebounder.
they look easy because he boxes out.
He’s had a great (top 3) defensive rebound rate for a long time, that doesn’t happen because they’re easy.
by JockstrapNoah on Dec 27, 2011 2:19 PM CST up reply actions
I disagree.
When I think about great rebounders, I think mainly about offensive rebounds, as those are the truly tough ones. Defensive rebounds are not very hard to come up with; any big who hangs around the paint on defense can just screw around and come up with solid rebounding numbers. However, offenisve rebounding is where you need to fight opposing bigs on the glass and really battle for boards. Booz has never cracked the top ten in ORB%, so I don’t buy into his excellent rebounding totals.
Thank you!
There is a difference between fighting for important offensive rebounds and then grabbing boards after freethrow attempts by opposing teams and defensive boards that any big any the area can grab. I don’t have the numbers but I would love to know how many times does Bozzer yell “Gimme that shit!” for a board that Noah let him have while going back down the court in transition.
Hey Rose. I don't see the appeal!
Rose
I disagree with some posters and think that he has to develop a more complete game, not only rely on his strengths. But he needs to start punishing teams from the elbow. He needs to explode through the pick and pull up at the elbow. He seems only comfortable with the 3 or all the way to the rim.
Pulling up will force the bigs out allowing him to facilitate.
And Van Gundy is on the bottom of the pile!
he needs to become more well rounded
but you work on that in practice and the offseason…not use the game to practice your 3pt shot
"There are two ways to argue with a woman, and neither of them work."
- Carlos Boozer after cancelling an interview with a Sports Illustrated reporter because his wife was expecting him home.
Nobody thinks he should quit developing.
But a player should rely on his strengths…….because they’re his strengths. To steal something from Jerry Angelo, his three point game should be the sprinkles on top of the ice cream cone, which is his mid-range game and penetration. it should be a supplement to his already strong offensive repertoire, not the foundation of his offense, which it’s been the last two games.
Jerry Angelo.....
Fuck him
"Violence is not always the answer."
"Violence is the question, and the answers always YES!"
I feel like a moron for buying into the talk
about this being a year of redemption for Carlos Boozer. i heard the talk about his injuries holding him back, losing weight, his motivation, etc. He’s nothing more than a bad joke. No hustle, no effort….he’s just a dog out there. When a guy can’t seal off a bum like Kwame Brown in the post, it’s time to sit the fuck down. And you know that he’s dogging it because he’s shown his full array of post-moves before; he’s just too lazy and soft to use his physicality on a regular basis. The Bulls got conned by Boozer.
He never needs to turn in early
to get rest! Because he doesn’t need rest because he doesn’t expend energy! His calorie intake is probably around 1000 daily because he never burns more than that by being active in the post!
by JockstrapNoah on Dec 27, 2011 2:21 PM CST up reply actions
Another thing about Booz.
It’s got to be difficult to restrain yourself as a teammate of his. Everyone out there is busting their ass, typically, and he stands out like a sore thumb as the one guy out there dogging it. Offensively, he kills the team when he’s jacking J’s instead of working down on the block, and his lazy play resulted in a few TOV’s for Rip last night. The bottom line is that he often makes his teammates look bad and costs the team W’s. I feel like if MJ was his teammate, he’d have murdered him by now.
The most effort Carlos Boozer puts into anything is those 5-10 exclamation points on all of his tweets
"There are two ways to argue with a woman, and neither of them work."
- Carlos Boozer after cancelling an interview with a Sports Illustrated reporter because his wife was expecting him home.
His offense still has time to come around, and I like what I've seen from him offensively
so far. But his rebounding is the aspect of his game that makes all the weaknesses worth living with. Without the super aggressive rebounding, he’s nothing.
He got low minutes last night becuase of his defense and his turnovers though, without those sloppy turnovers the game is a different game.
by JockstrapNoah on Dec 27, 2011 2:14 PM CST up reply actions
You like the offense so far?
He’s given the team 10 points on 10FGA with just 4.5 Rebounds. Not only does that suck on it’s own merit, but it looks even worse when you look at what he was up against the last two games. All LA had was Gasol in the paint and GS is like Charmin inside. Boozer’s trash.
We started 6-7 last year folks
Give it a bit of time. After game 10 this season I give you permission to flip a shit.
"There are two ways to argue with a woman, and neither of them work."
- Carlos Boozer after cancelling an interview with a Sports Illustrated reporter because his wife was expecting him home.
by Brigade17 on Dec 27, 2011 3:30 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
everyone on the team is doing bad except deng
i dont expect this to continue. I think thibs may change the lineup if this continues and you may see Boozer coming off the bench as “6th man” and I can see him thriving with the bench mob. I have to come to a conclusion BOOZER AND NOAH CANT PLAY TOGETHER!!!
people are overreacting
Deng has been good these last two games, Rose has had a split, that first game he wasn’t aggressive but his jumper was on, so I don’t clarify that as a bad game.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
NBA Playoffs Content Module
Related FanPosts on Blog a Bull
Related FanShots on Blog a Bull
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sport
- Shaquille O’Neal is in a Chinese beer commercial, too (VIDEO)
- ‘Deep Thoughts’ and Cheap Thoughts: San Antonio Spurs vs. Oklahoma City Thunder
- C-a-C: This is probably as close to LeBron James working with John Waters as we’ll ever get
- Dwyane Wade’s hot pink pants: The kind of thing you can get away with when you drop 41
- Lamar Odom to New York? Dwight Howard on the move? For now, it’s all talk
