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Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

Coach Nick shows you why Michael was more efficient than Kobe in scoring out of the triangle offense, making himself and his teammates better.

5 months ago Vintagebasketballicon_tiny CoachNick 30 comments 3 recs  | 

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C'mon now yfbb.

This is Coach Nick we’re talking about here.

"We wish Jordan were 7-feet, but he isn't. There just wasn't a center available. What can you do? Jordan isn't going to turn this franchise around. I wouldn't ask him to. He's a very good offensive player, but not an overpowering offensive player." Rod Thorn, then Bulls general manager, after drafting Michael Jordan

by AerialAssault on Dec 13, 2011 9:40 AM CST via mobile reply actions  

Hahaha

I actually LOL’d at the rage.

"We wish Jordan were 7-feet, but he isn't. There just wasn't a center available. What can you do? Jordan isn't going to turn this franchise around. I wouldn't ask him to. He's a very good offensive player, but not an overpowering offensive player." Rod Thorn, then Bulls general manager, after drafting Michael Jordan

by AerialAssault on Dec 13, 2011 1:46 PM CST via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

remember: its not just a channel, its a conversation...

(awkward pose) Are yooou in?

option27: Hell no! Go Fuck yourself!

I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!

by piccolomair on Dec 13, 2011 2:00 PM CST up reply actions  

This vid is a great example of what I don't like about Coach Nick

Go to 2:00. Nick shows a play where Kobe hits a turnaround jumper in the post. Nick calls it a tough shot that Dallas was probably happy to give up. On the very next clip, he shows Jordan hitting a turnaround jumper from an almost equivalent distance from the basket and calls it a good shot.

Pat Riley is the devil.

by Poloplaya14 on Dec 13, 2011 3:45 PM CST reply actions  

but Coach Nick does that literally every time.

Rose decides not to go 1-on-2 and I was thinking, "what are you doing?! You've got the numbers!" -Zach Harper, Daily Dime Live

by Prevenge on Dec 13, 2011 11:35 PM CST up reply actions  

At least he shows the video.

Everyone else except Pruiti just writes about it without showing the evidence. And if that’s the only problem you have with that video, that seems pretty minor to me.

by Tim S. on Dec 14, 2011 1:57 AM CST up reply actions  

What can the movie "Moneyball"

tell me about the different types of sabermetric stats in baseball and how they apply to each situation and what I should conclude based on those stats?

Nothing. A cut up video is near fucking useless unless it has real analysis with it.

by Basketball on Dec 14, 2011 1:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Or if you don't like the movie analogy..

What can a 30 second cut-up highlight clip on ESPN tell me with some guy rattling off bullshit? also.. nothing.

by Basketball on Dec 14, 2011 1:22 PM CST up reply actions  

So what do you think about Sebastian Pruiti?

Do you like him better because his analysis is better?

by Tim S. on Dec 14, 2011 1:40 PM CST up reply actions  

To be honest I haven't actually seen many of his videos.

I feel like I remember him doing something on the Korver/Rose screen roll in the playoffs but I can’t remember if it was him. But if that was him, I do like him more, he gets to the core of an idea of how something should happen and really if it’s a) practical b) well implemented and c) how it would compare if an alternative actions actually took place.

Even that analysis isn’t perfect, but at least it doesn’t speak to more than an idea and the execution that goes along with it. I always feel like Nick is hating on individual players because they don’t play the game the way he wants them too. VC might not move off screens or play off Rose like Rip and that isn’t his mentality towards basketball, but VC does have other strengths.

In this case I don’t even understand, I feel like Kobe’s game isn’t any less intelligent or less structured than Jordan’s, rather that Jordan was more talented than him at converting those same opportunities.

by Basketball on Dec 14, 2011 3:55 PM CST up reply actions  

Well, I guess I share some of Nick's tastes.

I tend to think volume scoring is overrated and dirty work like picks and rebounds and moving without the ball is underrated. When Nick gets after Carter or Boozer for missing assignments, I tend to agree with him. When he gets after Kobe for hogging the ball at the end of games, I also tend to agree. I also think that even though Jordan is considered the G.O.A.T., not enough people realize what distinguished him from other scorers.

That being said, perhaps Nick is just reinforcing my prejudices. I agree that a 30 second video is not rigorous evidence if you aren’t already inclined to agree with Nick’s point of view.

by Tim S. on Dec 14, 2011 5:42 PM CST up reply actions  

What I gathered from this video

Is not that Kobe is less intelligent, but rather almost lazier. Jordon was running around like a mad man without the ball, while Kobe kind of floated.

Although, lazy isn’t the right word. Rose does the same thing and he’s not lazy. They’re just not as comfortable off the ball as Jordon was.

Maybe he was cherry picking plays were Kobe looked his worst while Jordan looked his best, but you don’t really have too, just take a glance at their box scores to see that.

by tuluse on Dec 15, 2011 9:31 AM CST up reply actions  

When I think of the two players I just think of Jordan

getting closer to the rim for most of his shots and Kobe tending to shoot from further out so I can definitely see what you may mean by seeming lazy. But this is where I disagree with these videos that supposes what someone “should” do. There is no evidence that Kobe was capable of gaining position through his athleticism on every play the way Jordan often did. And this isn’t to say Kobe isn’t athletic but rather that Jordan was just that different of an animal.

by Basketball on Dec 15, 2011 9:54 AM CST up reply actions  

He shows Jordan giving the ball up and then running around screens

And he shows Kobe either not giving the ball up, or just floating when he does.

To me that was the primary difference.

by tuluse on Dec 15, 2011 10:01 AM CST up reply actions  

Pruiti's analysis is more objective

He focuses on what goes on during a particular play as opposed to trying to evaluate the players involved. Coach Nick, on the other hand, will make videos based on a particular premise (for example, this one’s is Jordan > Kobe), and it seems like he often cherry picks clips that support his argument and tailors his commentary in a way that backs up his overall point.

Pat Riley is the devil.

by Poloplaya14 on Dec 14, 2011 5:54 PM CST up reply actions  

yeah his whole point with that was the off the ball movement.

Kobe passes, then goes to the pass to wait for the pass. Jordan makes the pass then runs to use a screen before he gets the ball in the post, and doesn’t even have to use his body to make space, just turns and shoots.

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on Dec 14, 2011 11:19 AM CST up reply actions  

goes to the post to wait.

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on Dec 14, 2011 11:19 AM CST up reply actions  

end result is a less contested shot.

for scorers like Kobe and Jordan, Jordans shot had miles of space. Kobe’s on the other had was contested and had to work to get the space through physicality. I would expect both players to hit that same shot with near 100% accuracy in an open gym, so its not the shooting form thats bad, its all the work before that, or in Kobe’s case, lack there of.

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on Dec 15, 2011 7:43 PM CST up reply actions  

who does coach nick coach?

his daughter’s elementary school hoop squad?

by TRIPPLE OT on Dec 14, 2011 8:22 AM CST reply actions  

my biggest problem is Coach Nick not using playoff games for Kobe

I’d expect a little slop from Jordan during the NBA season, but in the playoffs Jordan went to and stayed at another level.

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on Dec 14, 2011 11:55 AM CST reply actions  

my bad is this the Lakers Mavs series?

I skipped around a bit and didn’t notice. Man the Lakers played like shit.

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on Dec 14, 2011 12:00 PM CST up reply actions  

i think coach nick vids are fine if you are just looking for information on how plays are run

i kinda block out his comments on what makes a player better than another player and more try to focus on the actual coaching aspects, what play is being run, whats the purpose of the plays. To me thats all interesting and having someone break down that information so i can see how every player is involved in a coaches plays, and more or less how damn intricate the nba play calling system is….to me that is gold. I like that coach nicks vids have a bit of flamboyancy to them, in terms of its good information (in terms of the play calling) but its also quick and has enough razzle dazzle where i can play the videos in front of friends or families who are less serious about basketball without them being bored out of their minds. Pruiti i think does a far better job of analysis (and showing multiple examples of why he considers what he considers) but its often slower paced and more informative. Its great for when im on my own, but if i ever played those vids for other people, id be killed.

I think coach nick’s videos are also done in response to whatever emails he gets, since he makes the vids shorts (and isnt very good at hiding bias) you get vids like this one where you really arent being told anything you shouldnt already know. You dont need this video to know that jordan was better at finding ways to score the ball, his ts and general fg% already says that.

The best analysis of this video might have been what jordan does compared to kobe in essentially the same system off the ball. Jordan was almost RIP like when it came to moving without the ball, and was far more willing to step away from the ball and the play to give his team mates room where kobe was almost a statue without the ball.

I think it would have been far better for coach nick to show kobe and jordans team against the jazz, who essentially have kept a consistent system (offensively and defensively) it would have been far easier to draw comparisons, and the closest thing to a constant.

I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!

by piccolomair on Dec 14, 2011 3:05 PM CST reply actions  

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