NBA Rumors: Bulls wait on Rip, re-sign Scal, and Clippers seize the day
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 12, 2011 7:45 PM CST
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PrintThe Bulls appear to be a lock to sign Rip Hamilton once he clears waivers on Wednesday. And thus this offseason's search for a SG is over. There's little point to sign anyone who's rotation-level now with Rip joining Brewer, Korver, and Watson as options at the position, as more doesn't always equal better.
And Rip doesn't equal great, as I'm a bit worried about his recent rise in injuries. You can use the 'marathon runner' description with him both ways: he's been able to stay in shape and accumulate a lot of minutes...but he's also accumulated a lot of minutes.
But it still will be exciting to see him in the starting lineup, simply because he's a threat. My ideal SG acquisition had the ballhandling and playmaking capabilities to spell Rose and provide a second shot-creator when Rose faced aggressive double-teams. And Hamilton may not be much of that, but compared to relative statues like Bogans, Korver, and even Deng (when he has the ball, anyway), Hamilton may as well be Pete Maravich.
It also fits in the Bulls non-aggressive mindset when it comes to player acquisition. You can debate whether the Bulls need a higher-upside move to keep up with Miami and even the Mavs or other contenders, but there appears to be no mistake that the Bulls themselves don't feel that pressure. Which is something for another post, I suppose.
In the interim they stayed up on their housekeeping, which, per usual, involves giving money away to players who don't belong in the league, and re-upped Brian Scalabrine for a non-guaranteed contract. I get it, he helps Thibs coach. But is it worth the dumbass 'Scal-A-Brine' chants tainting the end of a Bulls win? I say no: leave that for the Big Mac. With no other acquisitions on the horizon, it's also looking like the Bulls were throwing a few hundred thousand each to Pargo and Lucas not for trade-matching, but for kicks. It's nice work to be an Org. soldier if you can get it.
(I admit that last paragraph is nitpicking, but it's interesting to not what the Bulls spend on and what they don't.)
Around the league:
- Most newsworthy team from this afternoon: The Clippers! The Chris Paul deal (Clips version) looks to be dead again, but they are the first-ever team to win an Amnesty auction, claiming Chauncey Billups. This is big news for the Bulls as it was looking very likely Billups was going to whine his way through this waiver process and go to the Heat as a free agent. So credit the process for working as intended, even if it needed a little nudge from the league to Billups to do so.
- The Clips also matched Golden State's 4/$43m offer for DeAndre Jordan. This should be a pretty startling concern for fans wanting to retain Omer Asik, who becomes a restricted free agent after the season. And reason why the Bulls reps leaking stuff to KC (Gar F....sorry, G. Forman) should just stop using 'luxury tax concerns' as a phrase if only to keep us ignorantly happy.
- James Posey was also waived via Amnesty. Screw that guy. But the Pacers continue to be interesting after signing David West, their supposed interest in OJ Mayo, and now potentially freeing up more cap space for another move with this Amnesty cut. Not 'interesting' in that they're a real threat for the conference, but the fun-to-watch kind.
- And while I typed this, Delonte West was just signed by the Mavs. Not saying it's preferable to how the Bulls operate, but the Mavs take chances like this, whereas I had little belief that they'd touch West or J.R. Smith. And ya know what? Rip Hamilton is certainly a more dependable option than either, and I'm serious.
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YFBB, can you clarify your tweets with Coon?
I was trying to understand what he said about the BYC for Noah, but i’m still a little confused. Can he be traded now? or do we need to wait until Jan 15th?
yeah that was going to be my next post, something for tomorrow morning maybe
basically he confirmed what the Bulls said about no BYC for Noah. Seems like it’s only a designation used for sign/trades in the new CBA.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 12, 2011 7:54 PM CST up reply actions
This sounds like Noah is prohibited from being traded?
Trades of players who are technically ..base year players (per criteria from 2005 CBA) are prohibited before 1/15.
I’m missing something, just don’t know what.
by JockstrapNoah on Dec 12, 2011 8:04 PM CST up reply actions
They're only recognizing BYC in sign-and-trades, I believe.
Is that right? Or do I have it backward.
"Smith stripped. Smith stopped! Smith stopped again by Pippen!"
by ColonelFatheart on Dec 12, 2011 8:05 PM CST up reply actions
what
But is it worth the dumbass ‘Scal-A-Brine’ chants tainting the end of a Bulls win? I say no: leave that for the Big Mac.
"And thank you to God for making me an Atheist." - Ricky Gervais
by MichaelClutchtree on Dec 12, 2011 7:53 PM CST reply actions 6 recs
You're right.
That does make me angry.
"Smith stripped. Smith stopped! Smith stopped again by Pippen!"
by ColonelFatheart on Dec 12, 2011 8:03 PM CST up reply actions 6 recs
oddly enough, i kind of like it.
life is strange.
by obnoxious american on Dec 13, 2011 11:20 AM CST up reply actions
Funny because I love that paragraph...
I admit that last paragraph is nitpicking, but it’s interesting to not what the Bulls spend on and what they don’t.
Hey Rose. I don't see the appeal!
The way I look at it is the Bulls Org must really be going for" a team being > the it's parts".
They don’t want to mess with the system with a part that’s too volatile even if it has a higher upside. Makes sense their free agent strategy is just to find the best possible complementary part not just the most added talent.
by MilkThenClear on Dec 12, 2011 8:37 PM CST up reply actions
Interesting, and somewhat discouraging note from a Melissa Isaacson column:
Privately, Bulls’ brass almost expects that Boozer and Noah will have trouble making it through a grueling four months and there is no denying their histories of injury.
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 12, 2011 8:59 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Although I agree with Bulls brass...
Blog-a-Bull as a whole should take a vote!
New signature coming...but its a process.
take a vote on what? whether they have an injury history?
survey says: yes
A true friend stabs you in the front - Oscar Wilde
by dantheman3k on Dec 12, 2011 11:04 PM CST up reply actions
well duh, anyone with a history of injuries will develop problems
this is why the bulls didnt trade off gibson and asik. Depth is crucial esp this season and with asik, he should def get a bit more time season.
On second thought, it might be "encouraging"
because they can’t use the excuse “we don’t need ’em” when they let Omer and Taj walk for nothing in a year.
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 12, 2011 9:26 PM CST up reply actions
i think they will find a way to keep asik
and trade off gibson this season or next offseason. I know the new rose contract will put them over the salary cap, but this team seems pretty high in keeping asik,
They're already over the cap. By about $10mil.
Rose’s contract would put them in Tax range. As would just about ANY contract at this point.
It's okay, everyone...
!
We’ve got the Turkish God on our side!
by TooMuch2Gain on Dec 12, 2011 9:44 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, the schedule is grueling,
but that’s where depth comes into play. This team is fucking good, and there’s no reason they can’t finish with a top seed while giving some rest to some of it’s big men. Taj and Omer have earned more minutes, and with the condensed schedule there’s even more of a reason to give it to ’em.
I think it'll be interesting to see if they're good enough
to sit Rose in the fourth. The first half of last year’s schedule was full of scrappin hard fought barely better victories against teams we’d now consider far beneath the Bulls. Pistons, Kings, etc.
I’d like to see if they can play like the last 20 game of last season, for an entire season against the lesser thans.
by JockstrapNoah on Dec 12, 2011 9:50 PM CST up reply actions
Honestly the NBA is fucking with their product with this season.
The desperation to start on Christmas was ridiculous enough, but they’re begging for coaches like Pop to bench their stars at least once a week so they don’t burn out.
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 12, 2011 10:38 PM CST up reply actions
this is 100%
better than an 82 game season.
by TR MacReady on Dec 12, 2011 11:42 PM CST up reply actions
For whom and how? They're compressing 66 games over a time frame when they usually play about 55 games.
I love it when the the narrative-chasing intuition monkeys get involved.
-Brian Burke, Advanced NFL Stats
Oh yes, I'm sure nothing makes an athlete perform better than 9 games in 12 nights.
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 13, 2011 1:38 AM CST up reply actions
Does anyone have a credible source on the relative wear between a day with practice vs a game?
I’m curious. I imagine there’s more total hours of practice, but it’s less vigorous.
I dont think anyone has done a credible analysis on the subject.
But its the equivalent of going full out, as fast and hard as you can go during a game situation, versus practice which is more learning based and players are heavily supervised to prevent injuries.
not a huge deal.
theyre not playing football. you can play 2 games a day
this doesn't seem like the right place for you.
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 13, 2011 9:51 AM CST up reply actions 13 recs
great.
um, do they expect to do something about it?
by obnoxious american on Dec 13, 2011 11:22 AM CST up reply actions
I don't get the Mavs
looking to get rid of Rudy and Corey Brewer, so they sign Delonte West?
To be honest I'm happy the org didn't participate in this madness this offseason
The Lakers look a mess right now with Stern blocking the Paul trade
and D12 wanting to stay in Orlando. This Bulls team is not gonna lose to Miami in 5 (if healthy), it’s gonna be an epic battle.
"Shit just got real" - anorexorcist.
by illwill on Dec 12, 2011 9:12 PM CST via iPhone app reply actions
its good to hear some optimism on this blog, lmao
but i agree with u. Lets hope the team can stay healthy (knock on wood).
They're
Not ‘interesting’ in that their a real threat
Sorry, teachers can’t let that shit go.
Fukudometer: Created 3/31/08 Wrigley Debut 4/5/08 WGN and Japan TV Debut 4/6/08 Sun Times Debut: 4/20/08 Coffee Table Debut: 7/17/08
Your going to be busy.
He took his what to where?!
by hlac on Dec 12, 2011 9:47 PM CST up reply actions 9 recs
ISWYDT
Fukudometer: Created 3/31/08 Wrigley Debut 4/5/08 WGN and Japan TV Debut 4/6/08 Sun Times Debut: 4/20/08 Coffee Table Debut: 7/17/08
ah!
sorry. I’m usually pretty good at that.
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 12, 2011 11:19 PM CST up reply actions
I posted this in the Rudy thread, but since these are kind of "anything goes", I'll post it here too:
Sounds like the Bulls have serious interest in Rudy according to KC:
Yahoo Sports first reported the Mavericks are trying to clear salary cap space by shopping Rudy Fernandez, a player who intrigued the Bulls during the 2010 offseason. That interest later cooled, however trading Bogans — technically, still under contract until Dec. 19 — for Fernandez would work under terms of the collective bargaining agreement.
Recovering...
Btw, I know that might not qualify as "serious interest", but since KC isn't known to write about small bullshit rumors, I thought it was more notable
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 12, 2011 9:41 PM CST up reply actions
If the Bulls get Hamilton, not sure how Rudy could fit into the rotation..
by TooMuch2Gain on Dec 12, 2011 9:45 PM CST up reply actions
That's what I thought too
Kinda shocked by this
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 12, 2011 9:52 PM CST up reply actions
He may not fit rotation BUT he could be another trade asset
or if we trade brewer or Korver then we could have fernandez
Here's one way he could fit into the rotation.
Old man Rip Hamilton breaks his hip chasing kids off his lawn. Meanwhile, Kyle Korver trips over himself trying to stop Lebron on a fastbreak and suffers a concussion. Bam. All of a sudden, Ronnie Brewer’s the only healthy SG on the roster.
Teams like Boston, Miami and Dallas don’t worry about how guys like Troy Murphy, Erick Dampier, and Delonte West will fit into the rotation. They just sign them and figure out the rest later. Sometimes, those guys end up sitting on the end of the bench, but other times, they end up contributing in some way. I don’t see why we can’t make low-risk depth signings like those teams do.
Pat Riley is the devil.
by Poloplaya14 on Dec 12, 2011 10:17 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
we did make a "low-risk depth signing" last year. Kurt Thomas. and it worked out pretty well.
then this year they signed Luther Head to a similar contract, but he didn’t show up to camp.
by kpd on Dec 12, 2011 10:24 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Rudy could backup the PG, too, right?
by cubbybear on Dec 12, 2011 10:31 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
rudy would be a decent pg/sg sub...
i think the bulls should go for him. play watson at point and rudy at sg whenever rose and hamilton are resting.
well, i would play them in the 4th if anything
assuming its a blowout.
wow head didn't show up? didn't see that anywhere
by walterfan34 on Dec 12, 2011 10:36 PM CST up reply actions
yeah. dude was a no-show. from KC:
The Bulls invited free agents Brian Scalabrine and Luther Head to camp. Scalabrine could return to the Bulls in a similar role as last season, providing a veteran presence at the end of the bench. The 6-foot-3 Head, who is a career 38.8 percent shooter from beyond the arc, was reportedly a no-show on Friday.
http://www.chicagonow.com/chicago-bulls-talk/2011/12/bulls-narrow-list-of-two-guard-targets/
somebody a few threads back that he was asked not to come due a possible trade or something of that nature, but i never actually saw an article or heard anything on that.
thanks for the info
Saw he wasn’t listed on the bulls.com official roster
by walterfan34 on Dec 12, 2011 10:50 PM CST up reply actions
speaking of which
how much more is kurt thomas making in portland than he would have with us? that one surprised me. is he gunning for the starting spot now that oden may be out for the year?
i'm hot for teacher
he also got 2 years from them!
def could have been a factor.
Look
I didn’t want to offend anyone by saying the "f" word or generalizing my statement to any particular sex by saying "gays" or lesbians" or "bi’s" so "homos" is the most "politically correct" term. I’m just trying to be more tact in a tactless blog.
by Hindut Patrol on Feb 15, 2011 2:51 PM EST
still
even a little guaranteed money is probably more than he got from anyone else.
Look
I didn’t want to offend anyone by saying the "f" word or generalizing my statement to any particular sex by saying "gays" or lesbians" or "bi’s" so "homos" is the most "politically correct" term. I’m just trying to be more tact in a tactless blog.
by Hindut Patrol on Feb 15, 2011 2:51 PM EST
by Jaina on Dec 13, 2011 8:44 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Teams like Boston, Miami and Dallas don’t worry about how guys like Troy Murphy, Erick Dampier, and Delonte West will fit into the rotation.
And that’s exactly why it’s worrisome that he would be available
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 12, 2011 10:25 PM CST up reply actions
supposedly he is available cuz they need all the CAP space they can to sign vince carter
although; i’m confused how they can sign delonte west
i agree with this
and even though i rec’d it..i gotta say fuck rudy
I lay puzzled as I backtrack to earlier times/Nothing's equivalent, to the Bogans state of mind
I wonder if Rudy would even get minutes
with (presumably) Hamilton, Brewer, Deng, and Korver on the wings.
I liked it better...
When these weren’t “anything goes”.
New signature coming...but its a process.
by Dionysus2.0 on Dec 13, 2011 12:28 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
The Grizzlies just signed Pargo's brother to a multi year contract
The Memphis Grizzlies signed free agent Jeremy Pargo to a multi-year contract, Grizzlies General Manager and Vice President of Basketball Operations Chris Wallace announced today. Per team policy, terms of the deal were not disclosed…The younger brother of NBA player Jannero Pargo, the Chicago native was named the 2008 West Coast Conference (WCC) Player of the Year after posting 12.1 points, 3.7 rebounds and 6.0 assists as a junior at Gonzaga University.
From Sam Smith: Derrick Rose says he will sign extension with Bulls
He said they’ll go inside more to feature Boozer, and the best news of all that he’s ready to sign an extension, likely in the next few weeks, to stay with the Bulls.
"If it’s up to me," said Rose, "yes, I would sign quick. I know I’m not worried about that. When the time comes, I know that I’ll sign."
That is the best news the Bulls could hear. No need to worry.
by kpd on Dec 12, 2011 10:49 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
great news, heard it's for 5 years and $100M too
Was looking at the ESPN.com FA list and our only other player coming out of contract is Asik (RFA) Hoping we keep him, but saw GS offered D. Jordan 4/40, so I hope it’s not an outrageous offer like that and the Bulls can still afford him.
I'm not that worried about losing Asik
The Bulls will be able to make some room by cutting Korver (which I’m perfectly okay with since he’ll be 31).
The only thing that could screw things up is if Rip bombs. Then we’ll have to find a new SG without the MLE or else lose Asik (since you can’t use both the MLE and Bird Rights if you’re a tax-paying team).
Pat Riley is the devil.
by Poloplaya14 on Dec 12, 2011 11:03 PM CST up reply actions
so you're saying we'll be able to use both...forever?
The only thing that could screw things up is if Rip bombs. Then we’ll have to find a new SG without the MLE or else lose Asik (since you can’t use both the MLE and Bird Rights if you’re a tax-paying team)
just went on hoops hype (NBA salaries) Korver has 2/10 left on his deal
Maybe a sign & trade?? Korver/Taj this summer for a guy unavailable through FA?? I agree with you, Asik showed a lot of potential last year and I’d hate to lose a guy who can only get better.
by walterfan34 on Dec 12, 2011 11:08 PM CST up reply actions
Korver's third year is non-guaranteed FYI (Brewer's and Watson's are too)
And that does allow for a lot of creative S/T scenarios next summer. Joke all you want everybody, but the Bulls do have a lot of flexibility moving forward. Hopefully, they’ll use that flexibility to improve the team instead of saving money.
All the 2008 draft class folks will be RFAs next summer, so it’ll be interesting to see if any of those guys don’t sign extensions in the next few weeks. And these guys are all supposed to be buddies with Rose. Just try and stop me from dreaming about an Eric Gordon S/T to the Bulls.
Pat Riley is the devil.
by Poloplaya14 on Dec 12, 2011 11:18 PM CST up reply actions
thanks for the info, hoops hype said Korver is up after 12-13
and you’re right, Eric Gordon would be a great move, ideal for what we need.
by walterfan34 on Dec 12, 2011 11:20 PM CST up reply actions
Its doubtful though.
The Clippers wouldn’t even trade him as part of the Chris Paul deal
by ChiTownSportsMaster on Dec 13, 2011 1:15 AM CST up reply actions
watson is a team option and brewer is a FA after 12-13
You’re right, should be very flexible, should have enough cap room to make the right moves.
by walterfan34 on Dec 12, 2011 11:24 PM CST up reply actions
It's weird when you phrase it like that, as if there's a difference
Korver, Brewer, and Watson, all have team options after the 11-12 season, and will be free agents after the 12-13 season.
Try using shamsports for salary information.
Some quick perspective on where Rip Hamilton stands relative to other SGs in the league
I went to Hoopdata.com and filtered to include only SGs with 40+ games played last year and 25+ mpg. Among those players, Rip Hamilton ranked 11th in PER. The only players ranked ahead of him were, in order:
Wade
Kobe
Manu
KMart
Monta
Eric Gordon
Iggy
Ray Allen
Joe Johnson
Jason Terry
PER obviously isn’t the be all and end all, but when you consider the limited availability of most of those guys, I think it’s hard to argue that Rip Hamilton’s not a pretty decent pickup.
Pat Riley is the devil.
by Poloplaya14 on Dec 12, 2011 11:26 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
What if you narrowed your search down to only SGs with 40+ games and 25+ mpg who wear facemasks that scare the shit out of my wife?
Then where does he rank?
Fukudometer: Created 3/31/08 Wrigley Debut 4/5/08 WGN and Japan TV Debut 4/6/08 Sun Times Debut: 4/20/08 Coffee Table Debut: 7/17/08
by Fukudometer on Dec 12, 2011 11:28 PM CST up reply actions 14 recs
yeah he was the best option we could go with
One more 16-18 PPG scorer gives the lineup a nice balance, Opp. shouldn’t be able to double Rose when he’s on the floor.
by walterfan34 on Dec 12, 2011 11:28 PM CST up reply actions
two things:
Rip is a bargain. Joe Johnson is not a bargain.
i can dream, right?
I lay puzzled as I backtrack to earlier times/Nothing's equivalent, to the Bogans state of mind
by Belize on Dec 12, 2011 11:33 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
I always do.
Of course, I don’t want the high school versions of them…
Then again, high school Gordon is probably still better than Bogans.
by Dr. Handsome, D.D.S. on Dec 13, 2011 7:11 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Man, I'd love to have one of those 10 guys on the Bulls
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 12, 2011 11:40 PM CST up reply actions
we have #11 on the 2nd best contract of any of those guys next to Gordon
by kpd on Dec 12, 2011 11:55 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
That is not my concern (at least at this stage in this particular team's development)
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 13, 2011 12:51 AM CST up reply actions
(Although I will admit, if you're asking me if I'd rather have Hamilton at this price, or Joe Johnson at his, JJ get's the Heisman)
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 13, 2011 12:52 AM CST up reply actions
Good value...
is better in a package for a stud player. Joe Johnson’s contract is fine if he kicks ass in the playoffs; but he was merely average. Rip has never been an exceptional playoff performer either, but at two years around 5mil per, he can easily be packaged for a player who has been. Who knows, if the Celtics or Spurs don’t look like championship contenders maybe Allen or Ginobilli will become available; or maybe we can get K-Mart for Rip and a big. That is much better than having an albatross deal for a player who may not be much better than guys in the 5-8mil per year range.
by Dunker Von Smashalot on Dec 13, 2011 1:36 AM CST up reply actions
Rip has never been an exceptional playoff performer either
I beg to differ: 16.5 PER and 20.6 ppg tell a different story. He wasn’t amazing, but he was very, very good in the playoffs. It’s one thing to average those numbers in the regular season, when you have plenty of chances to go up against bums and post stats; in the playoffs it’s tough, grimy ball night in and night out. Getting those numbers in the post-season is pretty impressive. He also had two deep playoff runs with PER’s of 20 and ppg’s of 21.6 and 21.5.
This doesn’t mean much, but Scottie Pippen’s career a playoff average and PER were 17.5 and 18.4, respectively. Pipp was obviously the FAR better player, but Hamilton has a very strong track record of playoff success.
by dakoose on Dec 13, 2011 1:46 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
I wasn't trying to denegrate him.
He has had some good playoff series; just nothing considerably better than Joe Johnson. He has had the advantage of some good teams, so he has played considerably more games, but just as he has a 20per playoffs in there he has some closer to 13.5 during the year they won the championship. Obviously PER is not the end all be all, and rings mean a lot more; but I think that Billups was always their best offensive player during the playoffs and Wallace and Prince were probably their second and third best players because of their defense (look at some of their defensive ratings during those playoff runs, as imprecise as that stat is), Anyway, its great to get another guy who can be counted to put up 15per, because that Detroit model is similar what we are trying to do, except with the benefit of a superstar. Five guys at 15+ per, playing 30+ minutes a game with a low drating.
by Dunker Von Smashalot on Dec 13, 2011 8:58 AM CST up reply actions
For starters,
Hamilton had one deep playoff run @ 13.5, I dunno where you get off saying “some.” The Pistons had a final, shitty one-and-done trip in 08-09, but I was talking about deep playoff runs and that last series was just a joke and not representative of his skills.
Meanwhile, JJ is a career 14.1 PER and 16.9 ppg playoff performer, worse than Hamilton. Hamilton also has a 27.0 USG%, compared to JJ’s 23.6. RIP also has the higher AST%. He’s also three times more productive in terms of WS/48.
by dakoose on Dec 13, 2011 10:42 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I was going off of memory, so there is no need for the indignation.
But yeah, it seems like you are right, Hamilton has been a pretty solid playoff performer, which bodes well for the Bulls.
by Dunker Von Smashalot on Dec 13, 2011 1:39 PM CST up reply actions
Though,
the competitive vibe around here is a bit uncomfortable.
by Dunker Von Smashalot on Dec 13, 2011 1:40 PM CST up reply actions
"Sometimes offensive..." needs more votes!
by darksmokepuncher on Dec 13, 2011 1:44 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Hah!
At least you are affirmative about it.
by Dunker Von Smashalot on Dec 13, 2011 2:08 PM CST up reply actions
My only advice to you is to grow a thick skin
or don’t make value judgments about players on here. If you say a player is good or bad, there will be somebody ready to challenge you with a detailed argument, and if you aren’t prepared to defend your position, it won’t end well. It’s rarely personal, unless the player is a former Bull, in which case you better shut your fucking mouth before someone textually eviscerates you.
I actually like that about this blog. I’m forced to re-assess my opinions, usually before I even post them. Nobody’s going to let you get away with lazy commentary about players. Once the games start, it gets less competitive.
how the hell does six consecutive trips to the ECF constitute as
ONE deep playoff run?
he's talking about
Hamilton had one deep playoff run @ 13.5, I dunno where you get off saying "some." The Pistons had a final, shitty one-and-done trip in 08-09, but I was talking about deep playoff runs and that last series was just a joke and not representative of his skills.
And kpd is confused. He’s not saying Rip was only in one deep playoff run, he’s saying out of all deep playoff runs, he only had one down year which was at PER 13.5 In all other deep playoff runs he was better than that. He the concludes with a reason why we should discount 08-09 when his PER dipped to under 10.
He still gets paid that....
Unbelievable is right….
The kid's out of this world. He's got Allen Iverson speed, Jason Kidd's vision, Chauncey Billups' shooting ability and Michael Jordan's athleticism. How do you guard that? - Pacers coach Frank Vogel.
Rip is a great pickup.
Compared to the asking price for Butler, J-Rich and Cartert it looks like we are getting value for what we are paying. And unless we are getting Dwight, it seems like we are set for the season.
by Dunker Von Smashalot on Dec 13, 2011 12:09 AM CST reply actions
Our defensive depth is one of our greatest advantages.
People who are quick to trade away Brewer for Crawford or Taj for Mayo might end up regretting it when they’re bricking threes and pounding the ball away. Our defensive core is the best in the league, and aside from Rose it was the biggest catalyst to our record last year.
by Dunker Von Smashalot on Dec 13, 2011 12:38 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
i'd say tied for best in the league
along with james/bosh/battier as well as the defensive depth that howard is all by himself
Heh, that is a way to look at it.
The Heat have some great defensive players. Not only are James, Bosh and Battier great defenders, but Wade as well; and I would also include Haslem, Chalmers and Anthony as strong defenders. The Bucks are another deep defensive team with Bogut, Mbah a Moute, Ilyasova, Jennings and Delfino. And obviously the Celtics and Lakers are always right there. But I’d take our defense over any other defense in the league, inside out. It will be disappointing to lose Bogans, who was a real stopper at points; but when our second unit got going, they were top in the league, and I think the statistics bare that out. If our shooters can hit consistently and Noah and Boozer fulfill their offensive demands better than they did last year, we will better see the quality of our defense. As good as the Heat are, it was our anemic scoring that made them look like world beaters in the ECF as much as their prowess.
by Dunker Von Smashalot on Dec 13, 2011 1:27 AM CST up reply actions
signing rip hamilton makes absolutely no sense. historically SG/SF types play 2-3 years
of good ball after they have hit 25000 regular season minutes, then they take a big plunge from what had been their typical production. Rip hit 25000 regular minutes in 08-09. hes mediocre now; he’ll suck soon. and while i havent looked at the numbers and we don’t yet know the details of his contract, id bet this hurts the bulls ability to make a move later on.
Why is it "dumb"?
Seems like a very reasonable thing to ask, and be concerned about.
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 13, 2011 5:23 AM CST up reply actions
kpd's been awful
just terrible
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 13, 2011 9:21 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Turrible*
"Violence is not always the answer."
"Violence is the question, and the answers always YES!"
by T.Moore on Dec 13, 2011 10:22 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
*subject line*
I lay puzzled as I backtrack to earlier times/Nothing's equivalent, to the Bogans state of mind
by Belize on Dec 13, 2011 11:11 AM CST up reply actions 6 recs
thats a slam dunk
nice work belize
Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.
by hedonism bot on Dec 13, 2011 11:12 AM CST up reply actions
i think you just personally don't like me for some reason
i think my posts have been pretty decent lately. or maybe i suck, and am unable to see my own suck. it could really go either way.
I don't like you because your comments suck
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 13, 2011 2:49 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Do we need to have a BAB playground thread?
Anything goes. Say whatever you want about whoever you want.
THEO!
by wrigleyrocker12 on Dec 13, 2011 2:59 PM CST up reply actions
Now there's a tag-line
Blog a Bull – We don’t like you because your comments suck
by jpx7 on Dec 13, 2011 3:15 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Blogabull- Get that shit outta here!
Booze style.
Meet on the court, one on one, first to 3
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
He was like that towards me a while ago
Because I was a douche (yeah i admit)…Now he just hate me as much as everyone else :)
"Violence is not always the answer."
"Violence is the question, and the answers always YES!"
Reports say it'll be a 2-year $10 mil deal
It really can’t hurt the Bulls that much going forward. I understand your concern about Rip’s age and injury history. However, players take care of their betters nowadays way better than they used to (Rip especially). I look around the league and I see guys like Ray Allen, Steve Nash, and Grant Hill performing at high levels despite being 35+.
As for your point about him being mediocre now, I simply don’t agree. There just aren’t many players capable of generating the USG% that he does on a consistent basis. I’m confident that his scoring efficiency will improve playing next to Rose, who’s a huge step up from the likes of Rodney Stuckey and Will Bynum in terms of being able to create for others.
Pat Riley is the devil.
by Poloplaya14 on Dec 13, 2011 3:02 AM CST up reply actions 5 recs
the players you list arent very good examples. steve nash is not a SG/SF.
grant hill just this past year finished his 3rd year after hitting 25000 mins, so we dont really know how he fits into this (i guess we’ll find out this year).
as for ray allen, he actually proves my point. After ray hit 25000 minutes he had 2 more years of 20 PER production, which had been pretty much the norm for him up to that point. after that his PER dropped by 20% to 16. if rip undergoes a similar transformation, he’ll have about a 13 PER, which is pretty weak for a guy whose value is supposed to come from his offense.
your second paragraph im not sure i get. i suppose i agree that carrying a high USG% is a rare ability, but does that automatically mean the player is not mediocre? and why pass over rip’s inefficiencies by saying rose will fix them when the indisputable goal of finding a SG for this team is to get someone who doesn’t NEED derrick to make him better?
The things I like about Rip from the stats ive seen is his ast%
is far above all the other candidates who were available this off season ( The basketball reference table in the other thread) . Being a good passer and distributor is not tied to wear and tear and does not diminish as minutes played increases.
You say PER drops but which areas of a player’s game drop because of this minutes barrier and that in turn lead to a drop in PER. A player does not just become 20% less efficient across the board as you describe when they hit this wall. Rip is a tall 2 guard, passes well and knows how to handle a large amount of ball time (large Usg%) and is a good shooter. I think he will be a great new addition for the bulls in the next two years.
by Krandle on Dec 13, 2011 4:59 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Your Ray Allen premise does not make any sense.
And it proves you don’t understand PER very well. Ray hit 25000 mins at the beginning of the 05-06 season. That season and the next he remained over a 20+ PER and then it dropped to 16. Well, that was the 07-08 season that he dropped. Gee, I wonder if anything happened in Ray Allen’s career that year that might have effected his PER? He played for Boston you moron! There is only so much PER to go around on a single basketball team. Even good offensive teams rarely have more than two guys above a 20 PER. He was now playing with Paul Pierce and Keven Garnett! He was no longer the primary scoring option! That’s why his PER went down. His USG also dropped from the upper 20s to the low 20s. Gee, I wonder if that had an effect? Ugh.
After Kobe hit 25000 minutes, he posted PERs of 24.2, 24.4, 21.9, 23.9. If you exclude the season during which he hit your magic number, his last 4 seasons were 23.3,23.7,26.2,23.2. that means he went from an average of 24.1 to an average of 23.6, for a drop of 2%. Ooooo, big drop.
Now, Reggie Miller might be a better example of what you are trying to prove. He peaked in the three seasons before he hit 25000 minutes and then droppeda bit thereafter. That said, his USG also dropped and his TS% remained roughly the same. Rip will certainly see a drop in USG, but will also not be shouldering the load nearly as much. Rip’s usage has been on par with a Reggie Miller type of player (even a bit higher) when he does not have nearly the talent to carry that large a load. He will be much more feective carrying a smaller burden.
"Mental toughness is to physical as four is to one." - Bob Knight
i think that was a tad savage for a discussion about richard hamilton, but ok.
1) kobe is an exception. so is, for instance, julius irving. but if you look at guys around b-r.com you will see that what i am saying is generally true for SG/SF types.
2) your ray allen rant implies that PER is strongly correlated to USG%, which means you should be very worried that hamilton’s PERs were never very high in spite of having some of the highest usage rates in the league. you say he’ll carry less of a burden, which means his USG% will go down, which probably means his PER will go down too. so what exactly are we disagreeing about?
3) you conclude by confidently asserting hamilton will be more effective (i assume you mean more efficient) carrying a lesser burden. thats interesting because the beginning of the paragraph said that when reggie miller’s USG% went down his efficiency remained roughly the same, and reggie was a much better player/shooter than rip.
4) can i assume you think rip will be more efficient because of the old adage about the USG%/efficiency tradeoff? that wisdom seems to be right more often than its wrong, but its also wrong pretty often too, and when dean oliver was explaining this tradeoff to us i very much doubt he had 34 year old swingmen in mind.
summation: id like to see ronnie play a ton, and i dont see how rip hamilton helps the bulls beat miami, which is why i think this is going to be a dumb signing.
by TheMoon on Dec 13, 2011 8:16 AM CST up reply actions 4 recs
I'm taking a wait and see approach but I see your point
The irony is that your argument about what happens to SG/SF is the same argument that a lot of people were using for not going after Joe Johnson last offseason. There were plenty of post explaining how Joe Johnson would be a terrible pickup because of what happens to SG/SF types once they get past the age of 29 so I’m not sure why you’re facing so much hostility over your viewpoint. And yes I know the money is different but does anyone here not think that Joe Johnson gets us past Miami last year?
At this time I am concerned about what Hamilton has left and if that’s enough to beat Miami. It will depend on how he fits with Rose. The guy at this point can’t really create his own shot nor can he be a secondary ball handler like Crawford or Mayo would have been. I think the Bulls should have been more aggressive in getting a better option at SG, even if it meant going over the tax. But we’ll see.
Hey Rose. I don't see the appeal!
What do you mean he's implying PER is correlated with USG?
It’s part of the equation to calculate it.
the USG/EFF tradeoff will be what to watch
It’s easy to assume it just in a practical sense, with Rose commanding attention so much. But we’ll see if it pays off, and in truth I think you’re correct that he will be a sub-15 PER player as a Bull. I’m not even sure he can crank up that usage when Rose sits, as it’s not like CJ Watson is the type to wait for him to come around screens.
This also speaks to how awful Bogans was considering how little was asked of him.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 13, 2011 9:26 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Wasn't Korver getting his offense in the same way?
CJ seemed to get him the ball
did he?
Korver did that more with Rose. I’m not saying I’d rather have Chris Duhon, just pointing out that CJ isn’t a classic PG Rip can play off of as the first option.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 13, 2011 9:30 AM CST up reply actions
Rose isn't really a classic PG either
I’ll give you that CJ isn’t very good, but I think he should be able to get the ball to Hamilton enough that it improves the offense when they’re together.
Yes he did
A large portion of that second team offense was CJ waiting for Korver to come around screens.
I guess that's more my point.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 13, 2011 11:39 AM CST up reply actions
I'm wondering whether Thibs will start Brewer in the "Bogans Role."
Brewer in the starting lineup will make for far more exciting open court possibilities for Derrick. Last year, he might have had Jo really running on breaks, with Deng and Bogans running to the three-point line. Ronnie will attack the basket and draw more fouls.
And then have Rip and Korver come off the bench for offensive punch. If Korver has Rip running through screens, too, it could really complicate defenses’ (i.e., Miami’s) strategy in containing Korver. And because Rip can get shots anywhere on the floor, he might be able to draw some of those defenders off the perimeter.
"Smith stripped. Smith stopped! Smith stopped again by Pippen!"
by ColonelFatheart on Dec 13, 2011 11:46 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
all thibs comments suggest he puts a premium on
shooting especially at the 2 guard position. I don’t think Ronnie will be able to play himself into starting. I think he will used primarily as a sixth man, perhaps getting more minutes this season instead of Korver.
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 13, 2011 11:49 AM CST up reply actions
Ronnie knows this too though
I imagine he’s been shooting since last June.
by JockstrapNoah on Dec 13, 2011 11:52 AM CST up reply actions
I don't think Rip accepts a bench role quietly, to be honest.
I know he’s a wee-un-er, and all, but he can also be a giant pain in the ass.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 13, 2011 11:53 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
If they're winning whats he going to say?
by JockstrapNoah on Dec 13, 2011 11:56 AM CST up reply actions
I believe even the Bulls start the season 0-0
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 13, 2011 12:01 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
True, true.
I’m thinking in terms of numbers and ideals. Sometimes I forget that these guys are, well, guys, and not video game avatars.
"Smith stripped. Smith stopped! Smith stopped again by Pippen!"
by ColonelFatheart on Dec 13, 2011 11:58 AM CST up reply actions
Agreed.
Even though his primary strength is defense, Brewer is a perfect bench player because he’s a playmaker on that end. He kills opponents’ possessions in ways that create easy buckets for the Bulls in the open floor. The defensive rebounds are a bit harder to push, but CJ Watson and Taj Gibson have the motors to convert of the Brewer initiates steals, forces forced passes, and forces bad shots by being a large piece of the defense making opposing offenses elongate shot clocks past their comfort zones.
You want this at all times, but it’s most valuable to the bunch that struggles to create easy buckets in the halfcourt.
Also not a problem because when Rip isn’t a pain in the ass, he’s forcing strong offensive opponents to chase him around. In that way alone, he improves the perimeter defense on the other end because opposing perimeters will have their stamina challenged. Starting him seems cool.
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by Alex Sonty on Dec 13, 2011 12:11 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
It's the advantage to Rip over Jamal
Guys with lower percentages of their FGs being assisted at SG/SF tend to need higher usage rates to succeed. Guys like Rip scoring high percentages of assisted FGs are creating off the ball. When the offense moves so heavily through the PG, it’s more valuable to have a guy who may need 4-9 seconds moving off the ball to create a shot than a guy who needs to dribble for 2-5 seconds to create a shot. Let’s be honest: the magic two guard bullet isn’t touching the ball very often with more than eight seconds on the shot clock, unless he’s supposed to make a second pass.
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by Alex Sonty on Dec 13, 2011 10:29 AM CST up reply actions 4 recs
hah
Ok, fair enough. Not enough coffee this morning.
Bottom line is this. What player do you see helping the Bulls beat Miami that would have been attainable without the Bulls giving up key players from last year for? That’s the point. You don’t think Rip will get us over the top. So what? I’d much rather have a Brewer/Hamilton/Korver rotation than a Bogans/Brewer/Korver rotation. I don’t see J-Rich getting us over the top either and his contract would have made it harder for us to resign either Taj or Asik.
Finally, I did do some browsing on b-r per your suggestion. I’ll give you that you are right to a degree. Players around that age saw a drop in both USG and PER. Ok. So as they got older, they tried to do less. The question is, does that matter here? Hamilton will by necessity need a drop in USG because he will be playing with Rose. The real issue is will his efficiency (TS%) drop off. Well, there is a slight negative correlation between FG% and USG as you can see here. Just change the y-axis to FG%. I’d like to see it for TS% to see if the correlation is stronger, but it seems as if there is some correlation there.
"Mental toughness is to physical as four is to one." - Bob Knight
by DRose01 on Dec 13, 2011 10:09 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
summation: id like to see ronnie play a ton, and i dont see how rip hamilton helps the bulls beat miami, which is why i think this is going to be a dumb signing.
I also would like Ronnie to play. But I also think Rip does help us beat Miami. my reasons:
1. This is a shortened season with a ton of back-to-backs and four in five night sets. Something Rip brings to the table is that he has also played SF in his career. Yes, he is an SG, but he is serviceable at SF and this could do wonders in having to play Luol less that we had to last year, which I think will be very important in keeping him fresh for the playoffs. Neither Deng nor Hamilton will be burnt out, as each will share some of the burden that Deng did last year. With Hamilton or Korver sliding to SF in these situations, Brewer will still see his time. And knowing Thibs, if Hamilton is having a bad game and Brewer or Korver happens to be having a great one, we’ll see the hot player in crunch time.
2. Hamilton is not an excellent player at creating his own shot. Yes, he can do it to some extent, but it’s not his bread and butter. But what he does do it keep himself moving and keep running around screens every second he’s playing offense. This actually may well work better for us. We’ve all be thinking the key is getting a good scoring, iso shooting guard. But thinking about it, I think it’s better to keep the ball in Rose’s hands as much as possible. Hamilton provides another way of keeping Rose from being quadruple teamed. Hamilton is a good offensive player, and will force Wade/Joe Johnson/Ray Allen or whoever else we face in the playoff to not only stay on him, but work to do so. He make opposing players run through Deng, Noah, and Boozer screens on the same possession. If they decide to quadruple team Rose still, Hamilton is the type who keeps himself moving and will get himself in position to receive a pass that is easier for Rose to make. If Rose is not being hounded by the defense because they have to concentrate on Hamilton running around screens and moving back and fourth, then Rose gets to be Rose. If they double team both Rose and Hamilton, then either Deng or Boozer is wide open.
3. Hamilton is a good defender, but is much better at offense than Bogans or Brewer. Last year when we wanted a defensive lineup on the floor, it was Bogans or Brewer. Defenses, including Miami, had no problem leaving these guys wide open because they just aren’t very good offensive players. Hamilton is.
I just don’t see how adding another threat on the floor, somebody that has to be paid attention to in the playoffs, somebody who has experience guarding Wade, somebody who has won a championship as one of the cornerstones of a defense-first team, doesn’t help us become a better team, which in turn helps us do better against Miami.
by kpd on Dec 13, 2011 2:38 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm with you that there are concerns
but I think one ace in the hole that the Bulls have is depth. I’m a Ronnie Brewer fan, and to be honest, I like him a lot more than some other options that have been mentioned.
So, if Hamilton flames out (which is more of a possibility than many people seem willing to recognize), I think he’s more than capable to fill that spot. And if he can’t do it, the Bulls still have assets, and the trading deadline to make something happen.
All things considered, this was an extremely low risk, high upside move, no matter which way you cut it.
The thing about Rip that gives you hope, as opposed to a player like say, Jason Richardson, is that his game is not really based on athleticism. He’s a very smart player. I guess we’ll all just have to wait and see if it’ll actually work, but it’s extremely hard to be critical of the move at this point.
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 13, 2011 5:33 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
This is spot on
The Bulls went 62-20 last year. They are bringing that entire team back for all intents and purposes (I liked Bogans and KT just fine, but not much of a change there). Hamilton is a super low risk move. If he stays even remotely healthy, he is going to give you decent defense, decent shooting, and playoff experience. If not, we did not have to give up anything to get him or sign a long term deal. Rip has a flat out deadly midrange game. Even in the worst shooting year of his career, he still shot 41% from deep midrange. I usually think the Bulls “flexibility plan” is just crap, but in this case it makes sense. We didn’t have to give up Brewer or take on a contract longer than two years. If Richardson was willing to sign a two year deal to come here, I’d say go for it. But he was not worth a 4 year contract and IMO would not have made that much more of a difference than Rip could make. If Rip plays in barely any games this year, fine, it was a bad signing. But if he stays even remotely healthy, this was a low risk high reward move.
"Mental toughness is to physical as four is to one." - Bob Knight
by DRose01 on Dec 13, 2011 7:11 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't know
I actually like the Rip signing for the mere reason he is a threat to shoot, pass, and drive when the ball goes through him and he gets to the line way better than Brewer, Korver, or Bogans can do combined.
If Rip is effective for 30 minutes a night the Bulls could be finding themselves at the FT line to close quarters.
I can predict the future using Norm Van Lier's crystal balls.
"Sam has a tendency to denigrate reports coming from any reporter who didn’t also cover the day Naismith first put up the peach baskets." - snley
by NBA Observer on Dec 13, 2011 7:45 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
"and he gets to the line way better than Brewer, Korver, or Bogans can do combined."
He also shoots a great percentage from the line.
Playoffs
Derrick Rose says we all forgot that the Bulls won the most games last season, and there’s a real reason for that.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 13, 2011 9:27 AM CST up reply actions
i think we're also forgetting that that was their first year together and they played a lot of games without Noah and/or Boozer
i think that team last year earned another chance to try and get it done. adding Hamilton only helps.
they had everyone in the playoffs
and didnt exactly breeze through the competetion, thats what yfbb was refering to…the reason people are forgetting about the regular season is because all the success of the regular season means jack in the playoffs. We beat the heat 3 times in the regular season, they beat us 4 times in the post season. Things like that…
I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!
by piccolomair on Dec 13, 2011 10:19 PM CST up reply actions
they didn't have everyone at 100% though
Look
I didn’t want to offend anyone by saying the "f" word or generalizing my statement to any particular sex by saying "gays" or lesbians" or "bi’s" so "homos" is the most "politically correct" term. I’m just trying to be more tact in a tactless blog.
by Hindut Patrol on Feb 15, 2011 2:51 PM EST
maybe by the miami series
i think everyone at least started our near 100%, still we didnt steam roll through indiana or atlanta (the latter was the easier series imo).
I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!
by piccolomair on Dec 14, 2011 12:55 AM CST up reply actions
boozer hurt his foot at the end of the regular season
Look
I didn’t want to offend anyone by saying the "f" word or generalizing my statement to any particular sex by saying "gays" or lesbians" or "bi’s" so "homos" is the most "politically correct" term. I’m just trying to be more tact in a tactless blog.
by Hindut Patrol on Feb 15, 2011 2:51 PM EST
It is extremely low risk
I think the thing is, even a JR supporter like myself would like to see some creativity once in a while. Why can’t we get involved in one of these three way deals.. why can’t we figure out a sign & trade for a Jamal Crawford, etc… Its hard not to think other GMs would have found a way to get someone better. Rip is an obvious upgrade, at a good price that helps us maintain flexibility, but FFS, at some point you’d just like to see us pull off a move that scares other teams.
by Grinder in Training on Dec 13, 2011 9:53 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
How is somebody a JR supporter, is that possible?
by TooMuch2Gain on Dec 13, 2011 10:48 AM CST up reply actions
He's let KW spend a lot of money on my favorite baseball team.
Their payroll compared to attendance numbers, its pretty hard to complain. The moves didn’t all work, but can’t say he hasn’t given the payroll to get it done. And until Rose was here, I saw no legitimate reason to pay the luxury tax, so until recently I was fine w/ the basketball side of it too. I find it inexcuseable we didn’t upgrade at the two last year though.
by Grinder in Training on Dec 13, 2011 11:00 AM CST up reply actions
This...
Minus any reference to baseball, sums it up well.
New signature coming...but its a process.
by Dionysus2.0 on Dec 13, 2011 11:33 AM CST up reply actions
a big problem (no pun intended)
is we need our big man depth to deal with the shortened season. Rip and Przybilla would be fine additions to the team, as I believe fresh legs will be an advantage to us versus Miami. Remember how gassed Wade was during the Heat series? Imagine him having to chase our guards now, considering he will no longer have a statue in Keith Bogans to ignore. if we can get the ball into Chris Bosh’s hands, by wearing down Wade and hounding Lebron by using fresher legs, I think thats more important than having Jamal Crawford pounding the rock because they are chasing Rose around.
Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.
by hedonism bot on Dec 13, 2011 11:12 AM CST up reply actions
Some examples of what you're talking about...
Steve Smith, Allan Houston, Michael Finley, Eddie Jones, Latrell Sprewell and maybe Jerry Stackhouse. The problem with this cutoff is that the degree of effectiveness after 25000 has a wide range. Kobe or Allen, Finley or Jones and Smith or Houston each had different degrees of effectiveness. Some fell off a cliff, some became rotation players who still could add something to a team for years, and others remain huge threats. Whatever Allen’s fall off, he remains a huge threat during the playoffs. And given that he hasn’t played a ton the last two years, I think its rash to assume that Hamilton will be useless because he has played more than 25000 minutes. Hopefully he can stay in the 14-16per range and shoot well from three, which would make the signing worth it, at two years for five per. If we have the money available, I hope we can retain Bogans so that we don’t have to overuse him in this especially grueling year.
by Dunker Von Smashalot on Dec 13, 2011 9:16 AM CST up reply actions
ripcityhamilton Rip Hamilton
24 hours until I can sign wit my next team . Can’t wait.
by cowraiser on Dec 13, 2011 8:42 AM CST reply actions 3 recs
So basically..
You have to play in the complete shit hole that is Detroit, before Chicago actually looks like a good destination. On the plus side, at least someone out there is excited to play with Rose.
by Grinder in Training on Dec 13, 2011 9:03 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Or he just signed with the Heat. In which case we all jump off a bridge.
Recovering...
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 13, 2011 10:05 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
They can't afford him right/
They signed Eddy Curry…
Plus he wouldn’t start over Wade….In Chi he’s the starter.
The kid's out of this world. He's got Allen Iverson speed, Jason Kidd's vision, Chauncey Billups' shooting ability and Michael Jordan's athleticism. How do you guard that? - Pacers coach Frank Vogel.
he'd have to take the min from them i think
whereas w/ the bulls he’ll make back what he lost in the buyout
Look
I didn’t want to offend anyone by saying the "f" word or generalizing my statement to any particular sex by saying "gays" or lesbians" or "bi’s" so "homos" is the most "politically correct" term. I’m just trying to be more tact in a tactless blog.
by Hindut Patrol on Feb 15, 2011 2:51 PM EST
speaking of curry
he got injured in his first day of practice. Apparently they wanted him to jump….it was all downhill from there…
I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!
by piccolomair on Dec 13, 2011 11:02 AM CST up reply actions 4 recs
the injury in practice...yes
the jump part….probably? i didnt really care to read the article, just reading the headline made me giggle
I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!
by piccolomair on Dec 13, 2011 11:21 AM CST up reply actions
It's just a minor injury - he will sit down and eat some cakes and Big Macs while it heals
by JustAnotherFan on Dec 13, 2011 11:24 AM CST up reply actions
He'll probably wrap his leg in tortillas and hot sauce.
"Smith stripped. Smith stopped! Smith stopped again by Pippen!"
by ColonelFatheart on Dec 13, 2011 11:47 AM CST up reply actions
Tweaked muscle near his groin
Poor Eddy…
I'm getting too old for this shit...
by Judge Mental on Dec 13, 2011 11:25 AM CST up reply actions
Now he has something to show when he opens his robe again in front of his friends
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
by J Theory on Dec 13, 2011 11:37 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
was it b/c of his driver? lol
I lay puzzled as I backtrack to earlier times/Nothing's equivalent, to the Bogans state of mind
by Belize on Dec 13, 2011 11:47 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I heard he hurt that one
because it’s in that muscle group you use when you move
light em up
by docks on Dec 13, 2011 1:26 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
I don't think he's the starter here.
Brewer has been getting minutes with the first unit (per Thibs) and we know from last year he does not like to mess with that all important chemistry.
New signature coming...but its a process.
by Dionysus2.0 on Dec 13, 2011 11:34 AM CST up reply actions
Brewer's been getting first unit minutes because Bogans is gone in practice
and Korver will always be our bench sharp shooter. If Brewer’s still getting them on Thursday after Rip’s signed, I’ll say it means something. Right now, all it means is that Bogans isn’t playing/practicing.
A true friend stabs you in the front - Oscar Wilde
by dantheman3k on Dec 13, 2011 12:04 PM CST up reply actions
RIP on the heat would be scary. Imagine the guy defending Wade is thinking.
Oh, good, Wade to the bench, now I just have to nonstop chase RIP across the floor through 101 screens of horror.
by adocarbog on Dec 13, 2011 11:04 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
if he signs with the heat
& we lose bogans to atl
then pargo becomes our new sg
fuck fuckity fuck fuck..i dont know if i could bottle up all these emotions
I lay puzzled as I backtrack to earlier times/Nothing's equivalent, to the Bogans state of mind
Bogans was a statue on the offensive end
Now imagine our offense with this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzLA78Qb3fg
I'm getting too old for this shit...
This makes me really excited.
Those problems that Rose had being double teamed out of the pick and roll will be greatly improved with these skills. Plus he can pass and spot-up. If he stays healthy, this could be a great under the radar signing.
by Dunker Von Smashalot on Dec 13, 2011 9:03 AM CST up reply actions
I realize that's probably intentional hyperbole
but there’s no way Rip has below a 4% bf – you physically can’t hold that for more than a few days.
And having a low bodyfat percentage doesn’t really do much for your joints or tendons (unless its about 15-18%), so much as correct running form does, which I’d have to watch a slower video of Rip’s feet to really say something on.
What happens to a lot of marathon runners and even endurance bikers, though, is their bones begin to weigh less as a way to adapt to the constant pressure their joints are feeling.
However, if anything, that argument might mean Rip is more injury prone, because he’d have light weight bones.
Overall, my point is, I don’t think this effects anything. But it was probably hyperbole and I’m probably a moron. so have at it.
A true friend stabs you in the front - Oscar Wilde
I'm not making it up.
http://www.educ.uidaho.edu/kbrowder/PEP%20455/Nichols_2003.pdf
I cannot find the real good running article, but I’m sure you believe me.
A true friend stabs you in the front - Oscar Wilde
by dantheman3k on Dec 13, 2011 11:26 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
here you go
although its more “marathon” than “running in general”, you should still be able to figure out that often, people who run are lighter because they run and their body has adapted to make everything about them lighter, and also thus more frail. Not because they lose bodyfat (but even if they do, bodyfat can sometimes act as a cushion for this sort of thing.)
http://digitalcommons.calpoly.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1034&context=bmed_fac
also I’m a long distance runner & long distance biker & pretty horrible weight lifter. in the Chris Bosh thread I said “I wish I could add 50 lbs to my bench press over summer”, and I wasn’t kidding. I weigh 165 and I bench 225, and that’s pretty OK, but I would love to be able to bench 275 or 300.
also I assistant coach track.
point being, if rip’s gonna get hurt, he’s gonna get hurt. Just like anybody else.
A true friend stabs you in the front - Oscar Wilde
by dantheman3k on Dec 13, 2011 12:11 PM CST up reply actions
I like to imagine time machines too!
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 13, 2011 9:28 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
yeah, I was waiting for a response like this
All I can say is that his game is predicated on conditioning, shooting and smarts (fundamentals), all three of which he still has and don’t disappear with age. He is not reliant on pure athleticism.
I'm getting too old for this shit...
by Judge Mental on Dec 13, 2011 9:32 AM CST up reply actions
his game is also predicated on foot-speed
Lack of foot-speed is the reason a guy like Kyle Korver can’t score in the same method.
Don’t get me wrong, I think it was a good signing, but I don’t expect to see Rip at the same level of effectiveness in a Bulls uniform.
by darksmokepuncher on Dec 13, 2011 9:52 AM CST up reply actions
Maybe not the exact same level as 2007, fair enough
But he’s obviously faster and quicker than Korver. I’m not sure this is even debatable. The only thing Korver does better is shoot the three. They both have super quick releases.
I'm getting too old for this shit...
by Judge Mental on Dec 13, 2011 10:04 AM CST up reply actions
of course he's quicker than Korver. that wasn't the point.
The point was that good conditioning, shooting and smarts don’t mean much when Dwyane Wade is with you step-for-step, runs around a lazy screen and blocks the shit out of your shot.
I didn’t say Rip was a statue, but at 33 he wont create as much separation as he did when he was 28.
by darksmokepuncher on Dec 13, 2011 10:14 AM CST up reply actions
I agree that 33 is not 28
But I am sure that Wade will not enjoy chasing a 33 year old Hamilton for an entire series, and I doubt he’ll be blocking shot back in his face.
Another factor is how well the Bulls and the coaches learn to incorporate hi sskill set. If he’s not getting good screens and getting the ball at the right moment, fuck it, doesn’t matter what his age is,
I'm getting too old for this shit...
by Judge Mental on Dec 13, 2011 10:19 AM CST up reply actions
For starters, if we can get Wade to chase RIP the entire game, great, fantastic, cause it will surely wear him out.
Second, I doubt he would block too many. RIP is not a rookie or Korver. He has the smarts and footspeed to pump fake and get by to the rim or throw to the open man.
yea the great thing is that wade will actually be guarding the bulls shooting guard for once
most of the time it was the opposing team’s PG playing damn near 30ft off bogans every time
lolololol @ wearing Dwyane Wade out
Dwade was so tired from guarding Ray Allen in the playoffs that he only averaged 30 points a game.
But this is all beside the point; I never said Rip was a bad player or a bad fit. I just don’t expect to see Rip ala 2007 on this team despite the fact that he plays the game the same way.
by darksmokepuncher on Dec 13, 2011 1:39 PM CST up reply actions
He certainly
Wasn’t tired in that finals series. He looked real fresh after chasing around jet and getting hounded by Stevenson and Kidd. Oh wait… He didn’t. He can be worn down, and he won’t be getting any younger anytime soon.
at least its hockey season now
by comebackkirk12 on Dec 13, 2011 3:15 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
that's a good point
I never really thought that wade is going to have to deal with chasing rip and being guarded by rip/brewer all game long. Going on 31 (if I’m right?) That’s not too easy.
by MartyMondays on Dec 13, 2011 9:30 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
This was recorded in 1995
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
Word?
Hamilton was a senior in high school in 1995.
I'm getting too old for this shit...
by Judge Mental on Dec 13, 2011 11:44 AM CST up reply actions
word up
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
So
he went to high school, played for the Pistons his senior year in 1995, then went to Connecticut, then got drafted by Washington in 1999?
light em up
by docks on Dec 13, 2011 1:29 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
if you say so
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
Sounds right to me.
When Eddy Curry is signed in the NBA, we know that there’s a time machine out there….
Seriously
Rip can actually play basketball, whereas Bogans could not make a layup.
When Rose gets the ball and takes off, Rip will actually run with him, nit pick his nose under the Bulls basket like Bogans.
And yes he will not be as good as 2007 rip, but he doesnt have to be, he’s playing for half his usual salary.
Another rival for Rose
Chris_Broussard Chris Broussard
There r only 4 teams Dwight Howard would sign longterm with – Orl, NJ, LAL, Dal – source says. Rules out a possible DRose-D12 duo in CHI
by JustAnotherFan on Dec 13, 2011 11:07 AM CST reply actions
No
We NEED KH12
at least its hockey season now
by comebackkirk12 on Dec 13, 2011 3:17 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
recd
for the screen name!
(yes i yelled ‘screen name’)
I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!
by piccolomair on Dec 13, 2011 10:20 PM CST up reply actions
Rose will beat them not join them.
“If you cannot beat them join them” is such a looser, shit statement. That’s why I really despise the Miami trio.
Well, I just remembered how Broussard was so very wrong about LBJ choosing Chicago
by JustAnotherFan on Dec 13, 2011 11:16 AM CST up reply actions
But everyone else agrees with that statement, really.
The Bulls want him, he doesn’t want the Bulls. What a prima donna.
I hope Dwight stays in Orlando, honestly
And, I actually think Orlando can make significant upgrade to convince him to stay, but they may have to do so by packaging (e.g.) Nelson and Anderson. But, given that there doesn’t seem to be any movement by them on the trade front, they may have resigned themselves to trading Howard this season.
by bryield on Dec 13, 2011 11:17 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yet another guy
I hope never to win a ring, not just because he dont want to come here. It’s just that he’s a moron
"Violence is not always the answer."
"Violence is the question, and the answers always YES!"
KC is not impressed by Broussard's 'breaking' news story
@KCJHoop
Been reporting DHoward won’t sign an extension with #Bulls for days.
"throwing buckets of cold water?
thats my job…."
I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!
by piccolomair on Dec 13, 2011 11:32 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
he does that alot
he even said he reported that Rip was officially waived the night before he was officially waived, which made no sense.
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 13, 2011 11:38 AM CST up reply actions
KC CAN PREDICT THE FUTURE
Rose decides not to go 1-on-2 and I was thinking, "what are you doing?! You've got the numbers!" -Zach Harper, Daily Dime Live
At least as much as Gar tells him what's going to happen.
“Papa Gar, tell me about who’s going to fill out the inactive list. Tell me again how Pargo’s a great practice proxy for Jason Terry…”
That's fine
It’s ego pure and simole. Dwight doesn’t want to be a second fiddle and he’ll never be the man here. Wait until he finds out that he’ll never win a ring being the man anyway. He doesn’t have what it takes to be the best player on a Championship team. If he gets one, he’ll get his like his comp David Robinson got his.
Hey Rose. I don't see the appeal!
Pure and simole...lol
Simple*
"Violence is not always the answer."
"Violence is the question, and the answers always YES!"
I still say you could convince him
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 13, 2011 11:38 AM CST up reply actions
Hm. My belief in this is wavering.
It just seems so specific, like the sources are purposely singling out the Bulls as a no-go.
"Smith stripped. Smith stopped! Smith stopped again by Pippen!"
by ColonelFatheart on Dec 13, 2011 11:52 AM CST up reply actions
I believe I could
but Gar will stare at him sullenly, and Paxson will menacingly make slashing gestures across his throat with one hand, while holding a contract extension written in blood in another.
by NerdVernacular on Dec 13, 2011 1:14 PM CST up reply actions
I hope he goes to LA, starts making shitty movies and gets distracted from basketball
I'm getting too old for this shit...
by Judge Mental on Dec 13, 2011 11:16 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
random thought
Mj drafted our new SG..and it all comes full circle
I lay puzzled as I backtrack to earlier times/Nothing's equivalent, to the Bogans state of mind
by Belize on Dec 13, 2011 11:18 AM CST reply actions 3 recs
I don't know why, but Rip reminds me of Dave Chapelle, here! LOL
Perhaps it’s the funny looking laugh or perhaps it looks like he is mocking MJ! HAHA.
*tyronne biggums voice*
mmmhhhhhmmm
I lay puzzled as I backtrack to earlier times/Nothing's equivalent, to the Bogans state of mind
wow, an old MJ is more jacked than a young rip
I’m hoping that’s like a rookie or sophomore season Rip.
A true friend stabs you in the front - Oscar Wilde
by dantheman3k on Dec 13, 2011 11:28 AM CST up reply actions
god this was like a bad dream.
this really happened?
by obnoxious american on Dec 13, 2011 11:29 AM CST up reply actions
yes
mj at the age of 40 did play basketball at an nba starter level
I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!
by piccolomair on Dec 13, 2011 11:31 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
You mean 20 ppg, 6.1 rpg and a 19.3 PER is not NBA starter level basketball?
I’d take that from our starting shooting guard spot RIGHT NOW.
"Smith stripped. Smith stopped! Smith stopped again by Pippen!"
by ColonelFatheart on Dec 13, 2011 11:55 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
......
Yes…..
Mj at the age of 40DID play basketball at an nba starter level
……..
I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!
by piccolomair on Dec 13, 2011 12:04 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Haha ... sorry!
I always assume the worst!
"Smith stripped. Smith stopped! Smith stopped again by Pippen!"
by ColonelFatheart on Dec 13, 2011 12:05 PM CST up reply actions
no i know all this,
it just was…god, why.
by obnoxious american on Dec 13, 2011 11:36 AM CST up reply actions
If Dwight doesn't be careful, he might not amount to what everyone thinks he can.
He could very well end up being known as a prankster, an impersonator and/or the “Superman” dunk, rather than a many time all star and DPOY.
I believe everyone was wondering the same thing about Shaq before LA.
I understand what you mean though. It seems like he should be a 28-30ppg scorer given his body and athleticism.
He’s just, I dunno. I have no idea why he isn’t the most dominant player in the league.
"What do you think, I just dunked my whole career?" Jordan asked Henderson after making a 3.
"You’ve got to miss eventually," Henderson told him.
"That’s what Cleveland said," replied Jordan
I think Dwight is probably going to end up being as good as he can be.
Is he going to do it with a championship-caliber team? That’s the question.
"Smith stripped. Smith stopped! Smith stopped again by Pippen!"
by ColonelFatheart on Dec 13, 2011 11:56 AM CST up reply actions
Miami could have a problem...
@WindhorstESPN
Eddy Curry did not make it thru 2nd practice with Heat, has now sat out 3rd & 4th. This experiment could be short lived.
by bryield on Dec 13, 2011 11:38 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
That's not good.
But it also wasn’t unexpected. Eddy doesn’t love basketball and doesn’t care enough to keep in shape, not to mention his heart condition.
"What do you think, I just dunked my whole career?" Jordan asked Henderson after making a 3.
"You’ve got to miss eventually," Henderson told him.
"That’s what Cleveland said," replied Jordan
maybe they should try
Telling curry that basketball was a giant “pumpkin pie” im sure curry loves pumpkin pie (in your eye)
I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!
by piccolomair on Dec 13, 2011 12:06 PM CST up reply actions
he sat out the 4th?
ha! Lebron-ism 101
I lay puzzled as I backtrack to earlier times/Nothing's equivalent, to the Bogans state of mind
a little OT
CAGrizBlog: Proposed Mayo-McRoberts deal officially dead, source tells CA. Mayo told this morning that he won’t be traded anywhere
by JustAnotherFan on Dec 13, 2011 11:41 AM CST reply actions
Alll right!
"Smith stripped. Smith stopped! Smith stopped again by Pippen!"
by ColonelFatheart on Dec 13, 2011 12:01 PM CST up reply actions
Que the "let's make a move" chorus
I'm getting too old for this shit...
Que?
cuál está usted a hablar?
...and we're back
by paddyfairview on Dec 13, 2011 12:12 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
cue?
sheesh
I'm getting too old for this shit...
by Judge Mental on Dec 13, 2011 12:14 PM CST up reply actions
Here's an excerpt from a post at The Wages of Wins
about the Bulls adding Rip (link). To summarize the point – it’s not a good move.
The Bulls are actually overloaded with good shooting guards! Rather than persue Rip Hamilton the Bulls should just keep the shooting guards they have. All of them are under contract and significantly better than Hamilton. All Hamilton can do is take minutes from younger, more talented and more deserving players.
better than hamilton?
on what basis? hamilton is easily our best sg b/t him, brewer, and korver. Hell, even stats support hamilton at this stage of his career.
"The Bulls are actually overloaded with good shooting guards!"
Is an overstatement at best, plain stupid at worst. If we were overloaded at sg, why all the fuss in the first place about needing to find one??!!!
I'm getting too old for this shit...
by Judge Mental on Dec 13, 2011 11:54 AM CST up reply actions
He makes a big deal about defensive rebounds.
But rebounding is the last thing the Bulls need from Hamilton. The Bulls are again going to play a front court that soaks up all the defensive rebounds anyways. The number of rebounds are limited and there are few that will make their way towards Rip.
by JockstrapNoah on Dec 13, 2011 11:56 AM CST up reply actions
All they're doing is replacing Bogans with Rip.
No, it’s not a franchise-altering move, but it sure as shit is an upgrade.
Terrible, terrible argument.
"Smith stripped. Smith stopped! Smith stopped again by Pippen!"
by ColonelFatheart on Dec 13, 2011 11:57 AM CST up reply actions
This is why no one pays attentions to Wages of Wins
you can’t just compile wins produced and declare someone better – that isn’t anaylsis. And if you have a stat that says Landry Fields is the 8 best player league, Rondo 9, Kris Humphries 17 while Rose 21, Durant 24 and Griffin 25 – there is probably something wrong with that stat.
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 13, 2011 12:02 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
I can't take this article seriously.
Spell “pursue” correctly, for fuck’s sake, and then your analysis might be worth reading …
by jpx7 on Dec 13, 2011 12:04 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
That's such a worthless article.
Wins produced is just so impossibly asinine.
Pat Riley is the devil.
by Poloplaya14 on Dec 13, 2011 12:48 PM CST up reply actions
Good, not great.
I don’t think the article is as ridiculous as it might seem. All of the Bulls’ shooting guards would be decent back ups. The problem is that they don’t have a genuine starter. But is Hamilton a genuine starter? Not, I would suggest, based on his stats the last two years. People may hope that he will play better with the Bulls, but there is no guarantee that will happen.
The good news is that the Bulls did not trade anyone to get Hamilton, and apparently will not enter into a long-term contract with Hamilton. I have faith that if Hamilton does not have anything left in the tank, he won’t play. The bad news is that he may not have anything left in the tank.
It depends on which stat you decide to look at
According to PER he was firmly in the top half of shooting guards in the NBA over the past two years, and that’s not including his rep as a good defender. If you’re truly one the 15 best, then there’s no doubt that you are a genuine starter as all it should take is to be one of the top 30 in the league. Getting away from the advanced statistic fight, I find it hard to look at box score stats and conclude that Rip wasn’t statistically in the top half of shooting guards. If you claim otherwise, I’d like to know which stats you’re looking at.
I actually dislike the term “genuine starter”. I’ve never seen a definition of that term that gives any team in the league one at every position, which means that there are a lot of non-genuine starters genuinely starting, which suggests that problem may be with the definition of the word.
I prefer to look at “fit”, as in whether the player possesses a skill set that helps his team be better than the opposing one when he’s on the floor. Notice I said “helps”. That’s why I can look at Keith Bogans and see that the team won with him, but still conclude that there are much better fits for the job. This means you actually have to know the players, and what skills they possess to make your determination. You can’t just insert somebody with a superior advanced metric into the lineup, and expect that the team will play better. Under my definition, I would suggest that Hamilton will help the Bulls starting lineup outplay most other teams on a consistent basis. He has the kind of dribbling, shooting and passing ability that will make the Bulls offense nearly as dominant as it was when Korver was at shooting guard (see “off” in lineup 6), while giving less back on defense. When you combine that with a Bulls bench that was the best in the league last year, things are looking pretty good.
If Rip is still so good why did Detroit buy him out?
Why was he sitting on the bench for multiple games? Why did his minutes get reduced dramatically the last two years? Why is there no competition for his services?
because the pistons suck
and are in complete disarray? their coach was terrible? and apparently there is competition for his services according to his twitter. :P
Look
I didn’t want to offend anyone by saying the "f" word or generalizing my statement to any particular sex by saying "gays" or lesbians" or "bi’s" so "homos" is the most "politically correct" term. I’m just trying to be more tact in a tactless blog.
by Hindut Patrol on Feb 15, 2011 2:51 PM EST
Every SG on the Pistons
sat on the bench for multiple games. They had too many options, an idiot coach, and trade speculation. Hamilton requested to get bought out because he hated the minute situation, the lack of loyalty from his team, and the coach. The team was willing to buy him out because they have other options, he was the most disgruntled employee, and because they want the financial savings on a team that’s going nowhere.
There is zero evidence that there was no competition for his services. He himself said that he narrowed his list down to 3 teams, so you would have to conclude that there more than 3 that wanted him.
This information is not buried, you can easily look it up. None of them have anything to do with his skill as a basketball player. Why don’t you tell me which of his basketball skills he no longer possesses instead of pretending that a terrible Detroit team that mutinied against the worst coach in the league is a perfectly rational actor.
Well, apparently they didn't feel the same about Tayshaun Prince.
But hey, I hope you are right about Hamilton and he proves to be the missing link. I’m just very glad the Bulls didn’t give up anyone to get him, because I’m not yet convinced that he is a significant upgrade over the people they already have.
Feel what about Prince?
That they have comparable talent and way too much money invested in his position? That he wants to leave? Those were the reasons I stated.
What is the comparable talent to Hamilton?
Ben Gordon? Rodney Stuckey? Are they also top 15 in the league? How many top 15 shooting guards are there in the league? More than 15?
Yes, comparable as in "how successful the team would be by switching players"
As I explained earlier, what matters most is how inserting one player over another affects your chances of outplaying your opponent. The difference between inserting Rip, Ben, and Rodney in their lineup will have little effect on where this team finishes, which will be outside the playoffs. Rip isn’t capable of making enough difference over his backups to alter the course of that team, therefore he is comparable within the context of that team. I’ve stated before that you cannot simply put in a player with a higher advanced stat, and expect instant improvement. That’s a lazy way of doing analysis. Players do not have equal value in different lineups. See Tyson Chandler on the Bobcats vs Dallas.
Factor in that they have 12 million tied up in Ben Gordon, and are about to sign Stuckey to a contract upwards of 45 million. It makes no financial sense to have 13 million more in Rip when he’s going to be gone by the time the Pistons are competitive. On the other hand, they have nobody other than Prince playing SF who makes more than 2 million or who has ever come close to a league average PER. Prince is also young enough to still be there by the time they get competitive again. There is no parallel between Hamilton and Prince. I’m not sure why you’re so eager to discuss the Pistons since you don’t seem to have a good grasp of what’s going on over there, and how little Hamilton’s playing ability has to do with their decision making process.
You keep implying that Hamilton is not good, but haven’t made a single point about what he’s lacking. I’ve asked in every post for you to explain what metrics you’re judging him by, but you steadfastly refuse to do that in favor of circular arguments that discuss everything but the player himself. At this point, I have to conclude that you don’t have any good arguments for Hamilton not being a “genuine starter”.
Because Rip didn't fit into their long-term plans and they're a long ways away from contending
It made sense to try to save a few bucks.
Pat Riley is the devil.
by Poloplaya14 on Dec 13, 2011 10:02 PM CST up reply actions
My god just look at how many wins prooduced Bogans has
Instead of admiting their system just isn’t handling him well, he tries to defend it.
This is either a fundimental lack of understanding basketball and statistics, or intellectual dishonesty.
Interesting side note
I took a look at the Bulls’ most productive lineups from last season. I noticed a few things. First, Ronnie Brewer is in a shit ton of them. He’s in 7 of the top 9. Like many have already said, perhaps we are getting a SG upgrade just because Brewer will play more. Second, it will be nice to see some of those Brewer-Korver lineups turn into Hamilton-Korver or Brewer-Korver pairings. Either you improve the lineup offensively or defensively depending on what you are looking for. Third, I am starting to wonder if just simply playing Brewer more was the answer. It seems he made a very large difference when he was out on the floor. Finally, it will be nice to see Noah at full strength. Omer was a beast last year, but I think Noah can do many of those same things on the defensive end while being more of a force offensively. That said, there is an argument to be made that Noah is expendable given what Omer can do. If Omer continues to grow, I’d like to see Noah swapped for a more solid player at the SG spot. Omer can protect Boozer from himself, and a strong SG would help Rose a ton. Just some observations. Getting excited to see what Thibs has planned this year.
"Mental toughness is to physical as four is to one." - Bob Knight
by DRose01 on Dec 13, 2011 11:57 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
I think Thibs is kinda itching to NOT play Korver
Of all the Chemistry-12, he and Thibs butted heads the most and is the least perfect fit for his style of play.
More Brewer is good.
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 13, 2011 12:03 PM CST up reply actions
True
I’d love to see a Rose/Hamilton/Brewer/Taj/Omer lineup. Mmmmmm, defense ::drools::
"Mental toughness is to physical as four is to one." - Bob Knight
you mean Rose/Brewer/Deng/Taj/Omer
I would think Deng is better at D with SFs than Rip is with SGs.
A true friend stabs you in the front - Oscar Wilde
by dantheman3k on Dec 13, 2011 12:22 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
It's weird that you would leave Deng
out of this ideal defensive lineup, and put in Hamilton instead. Deng is the better defender, and we already know how awesome the defense was with Brewer and Deng as the wings.
More Brewer at the 3 even?
It still remains to be seen if Thibs will trust anyone at the 3 for any length of time other than Deng.
by JockstrapNoah on Dec 13, 2011 12:06 PM CST up reply actions
As fans, we're lucky Korver has a thick skin...
The way Thibs would rip into him mid-game was consistently un-matched by the way he ripped into anyone else at times. Even if it was the Phil Jackson-style of just yanking him and not making eye contact for the rest of the game. It was quite noticeable.
Follow me on Twitter.
by Alex Sonty on Dec 13, 2011 12:15 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I just got finished looking at 5 man lineup data and disagree a little bit
Link here: http://www.82games.com/1011/1011CHI2.HTM . I prefer to see the data sorted by most used lineups to avoid small sample size distractions.
What struck me is that Thibs had Korver in with the starters as the 6th most used lineup, and Brewer being in there doesn’t even make the top 20 (As it turns out, it’s 21st). Both lineups actually performed well, outscoring the other team by about 11 points per 100 possessions, but the one with Korver both scored and allowed 15 points more. The same lineup with Bogans outscored the opponents by “only” 5 points. My educated guess for the disparity is that Korver was the go to SG at the end of games. Either way, it shows that Thibs recognized and valued the things that Korver can do better than Brewer.
The other thing that stands out to me is the disparity between the 4th and 5th most used lineups. Having the “bench mob” of Watson/Brewer/Korver/Gibson/Asik in there turned out to be a terrible lineup, while simply replacing Korver with Deng turned it into an excellent lineup. We joked about how Thibs featured Deng as part of the starters and the bench, but now it’s glaringly obvious why. My respect for Thibs just goes up more and more, as I didn’t see anyone else notice or comment about how regularly that all-bench lineup was getting beat. I hope that Hamilton can produce in that spot also, taking some of the pressure off of Deng.
by runningman on Dec 13, 2011 7:17 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I specifically remember complaining about the all-bench lineup, actually.
I didn’t use any lineup data to back that up though.
Pat Riley is the devil.
by Poloplaya14 on Dec 13, 2011 10:04 PM CST up reply actions
I'm starting to lean this way, too
I guess I would just like to see Thibs make better use of the passing skills of Noah and Boozer, before making a snap judgment about how much of a SG upgrade is really needed (relative to what’s available).
The conventional wisdom is that Rip can tire opposing SGs by constantly being in motion, which is true, but this can also be accomplished by having Brewer and Deng on the floor to constantly make cuts to the basket looking for passes from Rose or Noah/Boozer from the high/low post. Their defenders would have to follow them or risk giving up easy layups.
Oh most definitely
I would not be trading Noah at this point. Thibs has had a long offseason to figure out how to make better use of the pieces he has. Hopefully a better system will make use of the passing skills of Boozer and Noah.
"Mental toughness is to physical as four is to one." - Bob Knight
Rip runs more than both
Brewer sneaks behind his defenders. Rip makes them run through four screens at full speed to make sure the Bulls don’t get a layup. And that produces space, switches that benefit the offense, and other goodies. Rip will disrupt the D. Imagine that Wade can’t track Rip, and has to switch onto Noah.
these precision offenses tend to breakdown against good defenses
especially a defense as good as the Heat. I don’t trust Noah and Boozer not to turn the ball over, certainly not enough to have this consistently initiating offense.
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 13, 2011 12:11 PM CST up reply actions
A lot of that production
also be a result of more created turnovers because Brewer’s great at that, and playing against the 2nd team.
And a cutter on offense is much better than a spot up guy because movement creates difficulties for the defense.
I know when I’m playing ball I’d much rather guard the spot up shooter and fight through one screen vs. running around chasing a guy and seeing teammates try to help on that guy running all over the place.
As far as basketball IQ in our starting lineup
assuming Hamilton is there, Rose is the weakest link.
I'm getting too old for this shit...
Which is awesome, especially because Rose has been working on that
And has a great coach to help him improve there.
"Mental toughness is to physical as four is to one." - Bob Knight
totally
when the weakest link was a 22 year old MVP, it’s a good thing…
I'm getting too old for this shit...
by Judge Mental on Dec 13, 2011 12:11 PM CST up reply actions
Steve Kerr
“Rip’s a guy who can come off curls, screens and run all over the place, move the defense around so that even when he’s not scoring, he’s keeping people occupied, and that gives Derrick Rose driving lanes. I think it’s a great pick-up, assuming he has something left.”
“(Crawford is) not great defensively and will take some bad shots, so I like the Rip Hamilton move much better,” said Kerr, who also praised Crawford’s offensive fearlessness. “I think that’s a better fit.”
by JustAnotherFan on Dec 13, 2011 12:09 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
Interesting ...
ESPNSteinLine Marc Stein
Sources w/knowledge of deal say Pacers have two-year offer out to Jamal Crawford worth $10M with out to return to free agency next summer
37 seconds ago
"Smith stripped. Smith stopped! Smith stopped again by Pippen!"
by ColonelFatheart on Dec 13, 2011 12:29 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
More
ESPNSteinLine Marc Stein
Pacers, though, could still be outbid by Wolves, who want Crawford to play 2 guard next to Rubio with Barea completing three-guard rotation
2 minutes ago
"Smith stripped. Smith stopped! Smith stopped again by Pippen!"
by ColonelFatheart on Dec 13, 2011 12:34 PM CST up reply actions
He's in Houston, draft day trade
...and we're back
by paddyfairview on Dec 13, 2011 1:01 PM CST up reply actions
man pacers are starting to worry me
ill be so pissed if we lost to them
I lay puzzled as I backtrack to earlier times/Nothing's equivalent, to the Bogans state of mind
Bulls should do a S&T
Watson, Korver for Crawford and offer him 6-8 mil for two years. He could play backup PG.
by Chanel#1_Rose on Dec 13, 2011 1:02 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Even Booz isn't recruiting.
ESPNChiBulls Nick Friedell
Boozer says he has not talked to Dwight Howard about coming to the Bulls.
1 minute ago
"Smith stripped. Smith stopped! Smith stopped again by Pippen!"
by ColonelFatheart on Dec 13, 2011 12:45 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
We have a beautiful city and the greatest fans (bloggers)
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
I don't know where else to put this.
"Chemistry is something that you don’t just throw in a frying pan and mix it up with another something and throw something on top of that and then fry it up and put in a tortilla and put it in microwave, heat it up, give it to you and expect it to taste good. You know?"
Kevin Garnett via Paul Flannery
light em up
by docks on Dec 13, 2011 1:17 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
Is that why he's always making constipated faces?
That’s his idea of cooking?
by NerdVernacular on Dec 13, 2011 1:18 PM CST up reply actions
im hungry now
a breakfast burrito sounds like the business
I lay puzzled as I backtrack to earlier times/Nothing's equivalent, to the Bogans state of mind
choriza
I lay puzzled as I backtrack to earlier times/Nothing's equivalent, to the Bogans state of mind
Except that happens all the time.
2008 Celtics, 2010 Bulls and 2010 Heat, the Lakers after the Pau Gasol trade.
When you put a lot of good players who are hard-working in a system that plays to their strengths, it tends to work out.
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 13, 2011 1:28 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Tagline! Is it too late to change my vote??
...and we're back
by paddyfairview on Dec 13, 2011 11:37 PM CST up reply actions
Interesting tweets from Magic:
MagicJohnson Earvin Magic Johnson
For the first time, I actually don’t know what’s next for the @Lakers so we all have to stay tuned.
3 minutes ago
MagicJohnson Earvin Magic Johnson
Let’s give Mitch Kupchak & Jim Buss a chance as I know they have a plan.
2 minutes ago
"Smith stripped. Smith stopped! Smith stopped again by Pippen!"
by ColonelFatheart on Dec 13, 2011 2:25 PM CST reply actions
The "plan" comes to light!
SpearsNBAYahoo Marc J. Spears
F Josh McRoberts to sign two-year deal using mini mid-level exception with @lakers, source tells Y! Avg 7.2 pts, 6.2 rbs w/Indy last season.
2 minutes ago
"Smith stripped. Smith stopped! Smith stopped again by Pippen!"
by ColonelFatheart on Dec 13, 2011 2:25 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
"Don't try to run, Josh McRoberts!"
"Smith stripped. Smith stopped! Smith stopped again by Pippen!"
by ColonelFatheart on Dec 13, 2011 2:32 PM CST up reply actions
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