The Monta Ellis Solution
by Basketball Smurf on Nov 29, 2011 2:12 AM CST
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PrintThe solution to the 2 guard position is obvious, but we've been ignoring it. Delonte West? Tracy McGrady? Come on. The Bulls are going up against a colossal power in the Heat. They have 2 of the 5 best players in the game. Vince Carter? CJ Watson??? The Knicks are very much in the hunt for CP3. The Bulls don't need a band-aid, they need a game changer.
Enter: Monta Ellis
The facts - Monta Ellis is a bit of a bonehead. He can be a malcontent. He may or may not have an ongoing feud with several teammates over the past two seasons. So be it.
Monta Ellis is a legit scoring 2 guard in this league. He can play the 1 or the 2. He can finish at the rim and shoot 3s. He is a human energizer bunny who has been among the league leaders in minutes the last couple of years. He simply isn't a player that will be easy for the Celtics, Knicks or Heat to cover. With the Bulls solid D, he can be eased into the flow. You'd still have Bogans as a potential back-up, with Butler getting spot minutes. You could sign McGrady or still use the mid level to go after a guy like Battier or Carl landry (I know dreaming) or another defensive big. Regardless, he is the only legit option out there that adds another weapon to this team at a reasonable price (besides possibly Thornton on the mid level).
The trade:
GS: Ellis to Bulls for Taj Gibson, Ronnie Brewer and CJ Watson.
Mark Jackson has said he wants to change the culture of Golden State. What better way to do it than by adding 3 defensive first players from a winning team. Remember, GS just drafted a SG. All 3 players would immediately join GS rotation with Brewer likely earning a starting spot. Look at the GS roster, its terrible. They could use the depth All 3 guys would play significant roles.
Ellis is due $11 million a year for the next 3 years, with a team option on the final year of his contract. Plus there is the option of using the amnesty on him if things go south. He is fairly dynamic player that provides some insurance in case Rose actually has to miss a few games during the season. If Rose and Ellis could learn to play together they could be the quickest backcourt in the league, always dangerous on the break, and a team that racks up free throws. The benefits outweigh the costs, especially when you consider amnesty. The bulls should pursue Monta ellis.
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damn he fell off
i used to play that track with him and ugk on repeat all day
post-lockout blues...dada dada da
cant wait to see both him and boozer sitting on the bench in the fourth cause they cant guard shit
Should've traded for Melo.
right
because noah, asik, deng, and brewer/bogans covered so damn well for boozer….
I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!
Boozer is in a far more important position defensively than Ellis
Ellis has played in a system that hasn’t required him to play any D. If Ray Allen can be made into a defender, Ellis can be made into a decent defender. He plays as hard as anyone.
by Basketball Smurf on Nov 29, 2011 3:13 AM CST up reply actions
in general sure
but come now, ray allen was always a good team mate and coachable, monta has a similar mindset as melo. I dont care how unimportant sg defense is in terms of a team concept, when we play teams that have a joe johnson, ray allen, manu, kobe, eric gordon, ben gordon…you cannot tell me a guy like ellis isnt going to cost us points.
Maybe ellis lets us beat a team like indiana and miami with far more ease, but i think the hawks would beat us
I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!
Ya, this is really tricky
A big part of me wants to wait to do anything major. Thibs was working really hard implementing his defensive system last year, and it worked amazingly. I would wait to see what improvements Thibs can make to the offensive system this year before making any big changes. If we can add an amnesty player or other free agent, fine. But I wouldn’t be making any large changes to a 62-20 team until Thibs is given some time to tweak the offense a bit. If things look the same offensively well into the season, then maybe we think about making a big change.
"Mental toughness is to physical as four is to one." - Bob Knight
I guess if the idea is that the Bulls can never get a bad defender
than you may have a point. Of course only two guys that are being mentioned as targets for the Bulls (Afflalo and Hamilton) are even decent on defense and there is reason to believe the Bulls don’t have a serious chance at either (RFA-Amnesty).Carter, McGrady, Richardson, Thornton are all bad defenders without the upside of Ellis.
There is no rule that says Ellis has to start and play 40 minutes a game. Do you think the Bulls are going to suddenly lose to every team with a good SG because Ellis is on the team? I mean, wow, the Hawks now beat the Bulls because Ellis is on the team? The Bulls managed to play pretty good defense almost all of last year without Brewer playing minutes. Bogans could easily play 20 minutes a night and lessen the impact at that position.
Rose 38 – Ellis 10
Bogans 18 – Ellis 22 – Korver 8
Deng 36 – Korver 12
Boozer 34 – Deng 4 – Free Agent/Noah – 12
Noah – 28 – Asik 20
You’d basically have Ellis playing the Ben Gordon roll for this Bulls team. Scoring 15-17 pts a game off the bench, running the 2nd unit, and playing crunch time minutes when his game deserves it. If Thibs can bench Noah and Boozer at critical moments in a game, he can sit Ellis.
Finally, if the Bulls can’t trust Boozer at all to play defense, than the problem is on Boozer. You can’t declare yourself free of all marginal defenders in the future b/c Boozer sucks on D. If Boozer is going to be that horrible, he won’t be on the court and shouldn’t be in the long term plans.
by Basketball Smurf on Nov 29, 2011 12:05 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
malcontent
You think he is going to come here, sit the pine in the fourth with Boozo and be content about it? He already has issues with his current team, he’s shown he’s not a good teammate, and the chances of him coming here and just being happy with being benched are not good. Plus, we have enough issues with Boozo’s defense. The Bulls play team defense, and they couldn’t cover for Boozer. They won’t be able to cover for Boozer AND Ellis. For what Ellis costs, and what he gives in potential headaches, it’s a pretty risky move.
The only way Ellis's defense doesn't become a hindrance
is if he outscores his man. Are you ok with him getting 20 on 25 shots?
Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.
by hedonism bot on Nov 29, 2011 11:29 AM CST up reply actions
thats with Oakland!
You guys need to think.
He will be much more efficient playing with Derrick, Lu, Noah and Boozer.
His basketball skills and athleticism are off the charts
so not only does he have get better defensively
he has to adjust his offensive game. So now we don’t only have one adjustment we need to make with Boozer, now we have two starters who need to acclimate during a season and hope they get it together for the playoffs.
Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.
by hedonism bot on Nov 29, 2011 12:16 PM CST up reply actions
ah, far enough
well before we all get into stats, I for one, am worried about how he would adjust offensively.
Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.
by hedonism bot on Nov 29, 2011 12:35 PM CST up reply actions
CJ Watson didn't get more efficient
coming over from Golden State, though it’s true that he didn’t play with the starters.
Still, I don’t think you can just assume that he’ll become a more efficient scorer. If anything, fast paced offenses like Phoenix, Golden State,and Denver inflate your efficiency because of the number of fast break points.
fair point
usually less shots will be better shots though.
Its the same argument that I made for Iggy, a lot less bail out shots at the end of the the shot clock. A more structured offense, etc.
The enticing thing about players like Jr smith and Ellis, is you see them go off where they are just unconscious. And I think the Bulls can harness that, and turn them into more consistent performers
people use to say the same thing about Gordon
and Jason Terry and JJ Barea and a host of other small scoring guards. He doesn’t need 20-25 shots a game to be effective. You can put him in a system.
by Basketball Smurf on Nov 29, 2011 12:05 PM CST up reply actions
if the system is a "smaller guard" coming off the bench
then thats fine. But I think the assumption is Ellis starts, and I think he’d have to outscore the other teams shooting guard in order to stay a starter, which is why I would assume he’d have to do this from time to time by shooting at a high volume. Time to time being the key phrase, I’m not trying to imply day in day out as he did with the Warriors.
Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.
by hedonism bot on Nov 29, 2011 12:21 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not concerned with Ellis starting
I see him as a 30-34 minute a game player for the Bulls who plays at least 10 to 12 minutes without D. Rose on the floor in whichever role he plays. I think the Bulls can afford to open the offense a bit more and not be so dependent on Rose. Plus you can run pick n roll from both sides of the lane with either Boozer or Noah. Ball movement would be key – Ellis would have to get used to less shots. But a few high volume games for some one other than Rose isn’t the end of the world. It may keep him fresher. If I thought the Bulls could keep Taj Gibson in this deal, it would be a slam dunk no brainer.
by Basketball Smurf on Nov 29, 2011 12:45 PM CST up reply actions
what exactly are we basing this on
that he could be a system guy, cuz honestly isnt the rumors about him all the contrary. Doesnt goldenstate want him gone because Curry is that guy who can play in the system. Monta hates defending, hes not a bad defender who at least tries like kyle korver or ben gordon, or have the right build but doesnt know how like a ray allen, or an experienced vet that just gets away with cheap defensive plays like a jason richardson, vince carter, or kirk hinrich. He is a small guard who doesnt like to defend, and i dont see how a system changes that.
His offense is all about dominating the ball, he isnt a stand and set shot shooter, he is a off the dribble crossover shot creator. If i had to point out a flaw in ben gordons game its that he is a better shooter himself when he puts the ball on the floor as opposed to just catch and shoot, and thats the same as monta. The only thing is ben gordon CAN be a system guy and is pro enough to listen to whatever the coach wants. I dont see monta benig that kind of player, i think he is a guy who became a star and knows he is one and will want to be treated as such wherever he goes. I think the difference between him and curry is simply that curry is more adaptable to a system and can play alongside a variety of wings, while monta is monta..he needs the ball and the freedom to do as he pleases on offense, and thats not what the bulls need…
I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!
i think you're being over the top
i’m not convinced he is some fool who won’t be able to play with other talented guys. I’m not convinced he can’t play a role. per 36 we are talking about a guy who is capable of 21 pts, 5fts, 5ast and 2stls. He has played with pgs before – Curry, Davis. He has played with wing scorers – Jackson. He isn’t the first NBA player to want more. But he is under contract, he plays hard and he has really good ball skills the bulls can use. I’d rather have Monta than almost all other options presented. The upside is winning a championship, which is something I can’t say for a lot moves the Bulls could possibly make.
by Basketball Smurf on Nov 29, 2011 6:59 PM CST up reply actions
i don't know
but I kind of see the Klay Thompson pick for the warriors as a transition at the two guard from Ellis’s volume shooting to a guy who is more of a system guy.
Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.
by hedonism bot on Nov 29, 2011 8:09 PM CST up reply actions
Why are you making shit up?
Last year he scored 24ppg on 22.5 shots, including FT’s. The year before he scored 25.5 on 25 shots. Neither is particularly efficient but it’s not the horseshit line of 20/25 that you shot out your ass. He also did that as a primary scorer, which he won’t be here in Chicago.
its hyperbole, dakoose
Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.
by hedonism bot on Nov 29, 2011 12:39 PM CST up reply actions
Hyperbole is only used when it takes something true and makes it stronger.
You distorted the numbers to make a point that isn’t true.
well I just realized what your getting at
and it was supposed to read 20 “or” 25 shots not 20 on 25. I was exaggerating that he would need to shoot up to 25 times in order to outscore his opponents day in and day out. You did kind of corroborate that with your stats (and I kind of stopped reading after you said making shit up.) And if you think my explaination is bullshit, Basketball Smurf read it the way I intended:
He doesn’t need 20-25 shots a game to be effective. You can put him in a system.
Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.
by hedonism bot on Nov 29, 2011 2:35 PM CST up reply actions
picco, the Bulls had a top 3 defense last year, no?
so Hell yeah they covered for Boozer!
Just like any team covers for a weak defender, come on I know you know this
First off I would love this to happen
I think that this would be the perfect compliment to Rose and if you remember back before “nuclear winter” there were rumors that Golden State was shopping Ellis and the Bulls were interested. I think that saying that Ellis is a bad defender while true, I also agree with most people in this post that he is the product of a bad system. Also if you are an ESPN insider subscriber when they did the Lakers breakdown they said that with Kobe on the floor the Lakers give up almost 5 more point per 100 possessions. My point being that even Kobe takes possessions off. Ideally I’d love to merger Ronnie Brewer and Ellis to make the ideal super SG but thats just a dream. Our team has a good scheme and as long as he can keep his man in front of him and not be a complete sieve I’ll be ok b/c his upside is that he’s guaranteed to put pressure on the other team by his ability to score on the other end of the floor in crunch time. You sold me on why this is good for both teams. Good post smurf.
I say go for mayo he can play D and shoot
He would come cheaper and is a all around better player.Look at what he did in the playoffs last yr he was on fire.
The Grizz are growing though
The Warriors are just about to restart.
The Grizz were pretty darn good WITHOUT Rudy Gay. Yes, they just dropped a pile of money on him, but the play of the team without him gives them additional flexability when combined with the new amnesty clause.
I can predict the future using Norm Van Lier's crystal balls.
"Sam has a tendency to denigrate reports coming from any reporter who didn’t also cover the day Naismith first put up the peach baskets." - snley
by NBA Observer on Nov 30, 2011 6:41 AM CST up reply actions
If it only takes Taj, Brewer and CJ, sure
But I think GS’s asking price will be higher. They were reportedly asking for Deng the last time we broached this subject. I wouldn’t give up Deng for Ellis.
Pat Riley is the devil.
That's what I was thinking
I highly doubt they ask for only Taj, Brewer, and CJ for their best offensive player on the team (maybe). They would definitely be asking for someone like Deng or Noah in which I would be reluctant to see that happen.
"truTV is like BET for white folks." - Chuck
"Brian Dawkins is always 100% Eagles related."--macjack09 & BGN Nation
I also think
other teams would successfully outbid any Bulls deal that doesn’t involve Deng or Noah.
Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.
by hedonism bot on Nov 29, 2011 8:05 PM CST up reply actions
I have to scroll all the way down here to read that
Taj, Brewer and CJ Watson for Ellis isn’t even close to happening.
We all love Taj and he’s a fan favorite (he’s one of my fav. bulls too) — But what has he really shown for other teams to be interested in? He’s an energy guy on defense, true, but likely because he plays small minutes, and he has a limited skill set on offense, plus there’s a chance he won’t develop much more (look at his age, he’s older than you’d think)..
Brewer they have no need for, and I don’t think CJ is considered a trade asset even by the Bulls.
Its not like the Warriors are forced to make a deal with the bulls or anything.. There’s 28 other teams that can offer something, if they feel its even necessary to trade him.. This is just not a realistic trade at all
by Bulls_Bremen on Nov 30, 2011 3:22 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
yes I think quite a few of us all agree
a Watson/Gibson/Brewer package isn’t going to cut it.
Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.
by hedonism bot on Nov 30, 2011 12:07 PM CST up reply actions
You can't get rid of Taj
The dude is a beast. Maybe sub Boozer in Taj’s spot in the trade and that sounds more like it. Boozer is worthless though so I’m sure no one would be wanting a deal for him.
As much as I like Taj
You also have to consider the bigger financial picture. Once we lock up Rose in a max deal the majority of or cap is spent in Rose, Deng, Boozer and Noah. We can’t afford to pay Taj what he’s worth and I doubt he will choose to stay when he could easily make double or triple else where. It would be better to trade him for something than lose him for nothing.
Your rite on.!
Taj will be lost next yr cause we cant pay him.hes a great player but if we can get mayo and sign hill id be very happy.
I'm with you.
I’d rather have Joe Johnson or OJ Mayo
if we can get monta, we can get mayo. plus he rock and-1's. thats a big no-no.
"We got to win. Win no matter what. Trip, kick somebody, fight, bite. Whatever. Win." - Derrick Rose
Am I the only the who doesn't understand the Mayo love on this site?
After having a good rookie year his second year he was pretty much the exact same player. He took a minuscule step back but so small its barely noticeable in his stat line. Then before his 3 season even started his team drafted his replacement and moved him to the bench. To me he has largely been a disappointment.
Coming into the league he was talked about as a super gym rat, a guy who loves to come in early and stay late to shoot and is constantly working on his game. But his has shown no growth in 3 years. He is exactly the same player now he was as a rookie (stat wise). Comparitively I look at the first 3 years of Rose, Wade and Eric Grodon. Wade posted a similar rookie year then in year 2 exploded to 24 ppg then 27 ppg in year 3. Rose had a similar rookie year to Mayo then moved up to 20 ppg his 2nd year followed by his MVP run in year 3. Gordon had a similar start to Mayo in his first 2 years. Pretty much the same player at 16 ppg before stepping it up to 22 ppg before injuries took him out.
I guess what I’m saying is that this guy was billed to have a major upside almost like a DWade-lite but he hasn’t lived up to that, in fact he isn’t even close to that. Now grated he’s better than anything we have now and if we did get him I’m not going to be angry, but I’d rather Ellis whose proven that he can consistently score at a high level and be virtually unguardable at times to an average SG in Mayo especially if we have to move either Taj or Asik to get him. and I don’t think anything he has done so far justifies paying him $10 mil per year + (which he will get). Now maybe he comes here or goes else where and elevates his game and I’m proved wrong but from where I’m sitting right now if I had to trade for either I’m taking Ellis.
P.S. And yes while he a solid defender I mean solid in that he’s better than Ellis. Its not he’s really setting the world on fire in that department either or known as a lock down player at his position.
i think most people are in love with him for his age and the fact that rose has played with him before
not a big fan of him, but his “what if” factor + the fact that maybe noah and rose’s work ethic might boost him back is pretty good to dream about
plus his name is cool
post-lockout blues...dada dada da
I think his appeal
is a low risk high return sort of thing. People see him as a possible top 5 shooting guard (someday) in the right system who is completely displaced in Memphis and, therefore, possibly undervalued. Indiana was a hair away from getting him with JOSH MCROBERTS and some weak picks. That is, Josh McRoberts, the goon with four thumbs! Hell, if you could get a starting SG at that price, you are doing pretty damn well for yourself.
Everything that is bad about him is turned into an asset as a result. You say he got punched by Tony Allen. I say he was taught humility by Tony Allen! After that, he came back with a better attitude and had a hell of a playoff series.
I would trade Taj for him but not Asik.
by THEKILLERWHALE on Nov 29, 2011 5:46 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I agree, Mayo can become a solid SG with the right system and I think Chi-town is where he belongs
plus, Rose and Mayo seem to be a combo many teams are hoping for not to happen )esp the heat). Two speed devils going up against Heat will just wear down their defense.
I agree thats my point mayo is an all around guy we can get cheap
Hes probly good for 13 to 15 ppg he can play D and come for a cheap price.Hes been with a team thats wasted his talents.He needs the rite fit to be a better player.As you said he rocked the playoffs.I think he made a statment that he can play.Trading taj would be a good move were gonna loose him next yr anyways cause he will want more than we can give him.
I'm kind of on board with this
I think people are so enamored with the fact that he played with Rose and the so called thought that he “almost won the NBA Rookie of the Year Award away from Rose” (even though from what I remember people were calling Rose the ROY before mid season even hit). I’ve watched him a lot last year since I live down here in TN and other than that one game against the Spurs and a few games against the Thunder, he looked unimpressive for most of the year and I think its mainly because he gets into his own head and has a belief that he is already a superstar. I don’t really mind someone believing they are the best, but not if its more of a detriment than help to the player and his team.
I’m not really as high on him as most are even though he is definitely an improvement over what we have. I’m just indifferent on him. But I don’t believe he is worth more than what we offered for him (the Ronnie Brewer and 2 first rounders).
"truTV is like BET for white folks." - Chuck
"Brian Dawkins is always 100% Eagles related."--macjack09 & BGN Nation
I'm not thrilled about Mayo either
My reasoning for wanting him pretty much comes down to “there’s less wrong with him than most other SGs”. He’s not too old, and there aren’t any glaring holes in his game. He can shoot from range, even if he’s not great at it, he can create his own shot, even if he’s not great at it, and he can play decent defense, even if he’s not great at it. He’s really a jack of all trades, master of none.
Pat Riley is the devil.
by Poloplaya14 on Nov 29, 2011 8:43 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
a lot of it from my perspective is admittedly projecting improvement playing alongside Rose and for Thibs
he has age and ‘tools’ on his side.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 29, 2011 10:02 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Warriors fan here...
I couldn’t help but drop in and make a comment when I saw Monta Ellis’ name being tossed around in trade proposals around here. Anyway, as a GS fan who’s probably watched Ellis play a lot more than most of the guys here, here’s a summary of my thoughts on Monta:
Ellis’ perceived value to fans in the Bay Area is extremely mixed. There’s definitely a love-hate thing going on. Some fans think he’s next to godliness on the court; a Kobe-lite who can do absolutely no wrong, and that his and by extension the team’s failures rests entirely on his teammates for not “helping” him. These guys are unwilling to trade Ellis for anything short of Dwight Howard, just because they’re dazzled whenever he spins like a drunken top all the way to the rim for a spectacular-looking layup. Others are more willing to call him out for exactly what he is: an inefficient chucker who can either light up the roof or go cold for long stretches at the drop of a hat.
He takes a lot of shots, doesn’t get to the line often (people have noticed that he goes out of his way to avoid contact despite driving and spin-moving into double and triple teams), and turns the ball over at an alarming rate. He used approximately a third of the Warriors’ total possessions last season, way more than he should have considering he does not have the point guard skills to run an offense. He took possessions away from Stephen Curry, who is much more effective as both a shooter and a point guard. He’s undersized for a 2-guard who can, in very isolated instances, pull off a good defensive game when he’s motivated (again ala Kobe, who only plays D to stick it to whoever burned him on a previous play). He’s become allergic to rebounds over the years, posting a poor rebounding rate even compared to the average point guard. His passing is fool’s gold; he averages 5 assists merely thanks to the fact that he uses so many possessions and not because he’s a good passer by any stretch.
However, there was a time when Ellis was effective back when he was younger and more willing to be a follower. Back when Baron Davis was still a Warrior and the de-facto team leader, Ellis was able to be extremely effective as the third-fiddle behind Davis and Stephen Jackson. He averaged 20.2 PPG on .580 TS% back in 2007-2008 and rebounded well for his size that season. He has shown the ability to guard point guards better than he can with shooting guards, so pairing him with a bigger point guard is key. He’s dangerous on the break and can score quickly after a turnover is forced.
With him likely being a third-fiddle if he were a Bull, it’s likely that Ellis could once again be an effective player like he was four years ago. The comments about him being malcontent and a headcase is blown out of proportion sometimes considering his relationship with his teammates have improved over the last two years. He’s definitely matured as a person and improved as a leader, though he still shows signs of alpha male tendencies on the court and doesn’t trust his teammates all too much. If he could stop settling for contested fadeaway jumpers and take more shots at the rim, that alone will improve his effectiveness tremendously even if all other aspects of his game remained about the same.
The best case scenario is to hope he somehow returns to his best form and is more willing to take the backseat. The Warriors’ front office seems to have given him the benefit of the doubt and is willing to keep him on board, and owner Joe Lacob has gone on record to declare him our franchise player. He works really hard on the offensive end, but he has a ton of glaring weaknesses that is probably better covered for by defensive, championship contending teams. At the very least, he can be an exciting player to watch regardless of who he plays for. Though as a fan who’s soured on Ellis over the years, I’d love to take any combination of Deng, Taj, and/or Ronnie Brewer off your hands in exchange for Ellis, simply because it improves the team defensively and adds much needed depth and cap flexibility. Whether or not the Bulls and Warriors’ FO are willing to make the deal is another issue altogether.
by WYK on Nov 29, 2011 8:18 PM CST reply actions 8 recs
i wouldnt mind ellis at all.
hell easily become a scoring machine alongside with rose. plus, I think with Thibs, you will see him play defense. hes not like JR Smith who can be a complete idiot and I’m sure with offensive scheme the bulls will have this year, he will fit with the bulls perfectly.
Rec'd
You stated everything I was asking, thinking, and assumed about Ellis. I wondered about his character with his teammates and his growth as a leader because so many consider him a top 3 or 4 shooting guard and I look at most of the other positions where a person who is a top 3 at their position leads their team to the playoffs and after Baron Davis and Jackson left, Ellis never did that which lead me to question his leadership. I think he is a highly effective player offensively who maybe if he has to be the second or third option here can be that. What worries me is he willing to do that after being for the most part “the guy” at GS. Especially in a city that contains a figure as polarizing as Rose who walks on water in this city and with people like Noah and Deng possibly getting in his ass if he screws up or making a mistake. Can he just take it as they are trying to help me instead of they are out to get me and I’m gonna take care of Monta.
Also you mentioned that he makes points but on a ton of shots. We already kind of have that problem with Rose and I wonder if maybe the presence of Rose can make them more efficient and take more high percentage shots or will those 5 assists per game be a garbage stat where the numbers don’t tell the whole story (in a bad way).
As for his defense, we’d be foolish to believe that our team wouldn’t suffer some sort of defense lapse if he was acquired. Overall, I see a high risk/high reward if we were to get Monta. But I wonder if the risks are far more likely than the rewards. I just don’t know honestly….
"truTV is like BET for white folks." - Chuck
"Brian Dawkins is always 100% Eagles related."--macjack09 & BGN Nation
i think, at this point, the bulls will find a major weakness with all their SG options
at the end of the day…you want to ask whether ellis is worth risk vs mayo, JRich etc. Idk, at this point, I wouldnt mind ellis. My other options would be JRich, Grant Hill, and TMac as last resort.
Thanks for the break down.
Very thorough for somebody who gets to watch him regularly . Very insightful. Thanks for the post.
I think bulls need to sign hill number 1 and go after Mayo or JRich
If they want a scorer like ellis you got crawford out there also.But im sure the bulls want some 1 who can also play D.
I am not in love with ellis
But he is better than bogans. Imagine if rose was throwing those jump passes out of the trap against miami to ellis instead of noah. Team him with rose & we have the highest scoring & fastest backcourt in the league. Yes he’s undersized & kind of moody. But he seems to have heart. Sometimes a change of scenery and winning makes players shape up. We need points from the 2 guard. Similar to the 96 bulls who needed what rodman had skillwise. There were risks but they paid off. Again, I don’t love this guy. But I can’t take another year of Bogans. Fuck him & his 6 funky ass points! And if montae fucks up our groove we can amnesty his punk ass.
by #1humblebot on Nov 30, 2011 2:14 AM CST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
You can only use amnesty
on players your own team signed prior to this year.
by runningman on Nov 30, 2011 9:31 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
there is a special provision
allowing teams to waive a player and spread his salary out for double the years plus one. Don’t know if Ellis would qualify for that, but I don’t see why he wouldn’t.
Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.
by hedonism bot on Nov 30, 2011 12:09 PM CST up reply actions
Nope
that’s the “stretch exemption” and it’s only for future contracts. I made a fanshot about it a few days ago.
by runningman on Nov 30, 2011 12:20 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
no offense but this isn't the NFL
you shouldn’t just take on whatever salary just on a whim because it can and will probably hurt you in the long run.
Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.
by hedonism bot on Nov 30, 2011 12:13 PM CST up reply actions
Monta Ellis isn't the worst idea in the world but...
In recent years his USG% has been rising and it hasn’t really been for the better. He’s been detrimental to his teams with how much he forces them to rely on his scoring, especially when there are many other very efficient options on the team and he isn’t really the one creating for them.
I worry that he may be too dominant with Rose. If he can scale it back to maybe 14-15 FGA and maybe reduce his playing time by 5-6 minutes per game though, and play a little better within a structured offense, I don’t see how this is a terrible idea, that’s a pretty big “if” though.
i say we do it only after he gets some time under Mark Jackson's tutelage
he needs to know the all too important lessons “hand down, man down” and “mama there goes that man”.
by M 80 on Nov 30, 2011 3:16 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
"Coach, how do i guard Kobe, he has 4 inches and 30 pounds on me?"
“Monta, hands down that man down!”
“But coach, I put my hand up and he still shot over me”
“He’s a knockdown shooter”
“Yeah, but if I crowd him he drives right to the basket.”
“That’s a grown man move!”
“I get it coach, but how do I stop him.”
“Hahaha. Mama, there goes that man!”
“I hate you.”
by Basketball Smurf on Nov 30, 2011 3:51 PM CST up reply actions 11 recs
Marc Jackson started the job
talking about how he wasn’t going to work too hard. Monta should feel happy if sticks around long enough to even try to say something profound.
reminder, for cool well thought-out fanposts like this, you can rec them!
Just in case people forgot about that whole ‘rec’ thing for fanposts/fanshots. It HAS been a while.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 30, 2011 5:53 PM CST reply actions
i like Monta...
but he couldn’t guard DWade with a taser, and since The Bulls as constructed are already the second best team in the East, I don’t see the reason to make a change that would not help against the one team we are trying to beat.
Nice player, bad fit.
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