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Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

Dwight Howard's fantasy about a bigger market is drool-worthy

On top of being a manbeast, Dwight Howard would make a great politician.

He shows up to random picnics at Orlando parks and simultaneously openly expresses his will to expand his market reach by playing in a bigger city. The latest is maybe the most open he's been with this feeling inside of him.

Scott Raab at Esquire Magazine asked Howard, "Do you see yourself in a larger market?"

Howard responded:

There's more you can do in a bigger place. I'm stuck in a tough position because I feel like right now, where I'm at, I've done so much. And I just don't know what else I can do. I can't live for everybody else. I don't know what decision I'm gonna make as of right now. It's been crazy. Everybody wants me to come here, come play here, come to our team, do this. It's a great feeling, though, to be wanted.

Star-divide

I'm no psychoanalyst, but his quote surpasses a cost-benefit analysis when he brings up the 'great feeling of being wanted'. Combine that with a distaste for Stan Van Gundy as a coach:

SR: If I had a coach like Stan Van Gundy yelling at me all season, I would have slapped that guy silly a long time ago. What's it like to have a guy constantly yelling at you with that voice?

DH: Stan's a great guy away from basketball. He's passionate. He loves the game. I have no problem with him off the court. The only thing I had a real problem with was the way he coached. It was very tough with Stan, because he yelled a lot, and I don't want to be that guy to yell at my teammates along with my coach. Because they're going to turn it all off. I had to find different ways to motivate my team. Sometimes when you have so much negativity, it's really hard to be positive. I had a lot of negativity growing up, so I understand how to block the negativity out.

To suggest he's likely to leave Orlando is extremely premature, yes. Anything can happen and you know what they say: you're not an NBA champion in Florida until you first get Stan Van Gundy to spend more time with his family. (OK, I only say that.) 

To suggest the Bulls can't afford signing him as a free agent because of the salary cap and the Bulls committed liabilities is accurate.

To suggest that a package to trade for him would be too large a personnel price for the Bulls is a reasonable objection to the Bulls attempting to acquire Howard via trade.

But Nick Friedell writing at ESPNChicago.com that "Orlando GM Otis Smith has said repeatedly that he will not trade Howard." is kind of a non sequitur. All GMs have a price and no GM wants to lose a star for nothing in return. As long as that market exists and the Bulls have young talent locked up in contracts, the Bulls are a potential player in the race for Howard.

The Knicks were actually the only buyers for Carmelo Anthony. But false competitors threw dummy offers at Denver, which were leaked to the press, and increased the stake for the Knicks to receive a win share of 'Melo's career. They were conned, but that was them. The Bulls showed that they're unwilling to play a game in which they end up overpaying just to compete with other teams overpaying to acquire a star, so even if you're an apprehensive Bulls fan, you can't be worried, right?

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I hate to do this, but...

You think they’d take Noah and Boozer? I love the HECK outta JoNo, but if it gets us Dwight, that’s a trade I’d be MORE than willing to get done. Based on the old CBA, you’d have to include a bench player from Orlando. Duhon, QRich, or Bass would have to be included.

This trade would work if you used two out of Noah, Boozer, and Deng for Dwight and one of Duhon, QRich, Bass, Anderson, and Clark. Reddick makes too much for the Bulls to take on, and Daniel Orton makes too little for the Magic to take on.

This trade cuts out the Bulls strength in the front court, especially if Duhon or QRich are involved. But we’d be getting the best big man in the game, and the combo of Taj and Omer would likely be enough to cover our PF weakness. The Magic become very deep, but not very top-heavy. They’d have 6 players with a 15+ PER, but nobody over 20.

by Doshi on Oct 20, 2011 10:38 AM CDT reply actions  

You'd have to be willing to part with any player not named Rose.

Star players win, and while depth is obviously important, it’s easier to find than hall-of-fame 7 footers. In all seriousness, if Orlando demanded Noah, Boozer and Deng for Howard and Bass, I’d have a hard time turning them down.

That would give the Bulls:
PG: Rose/Watson
SG: Brewer/Korver
SF: Butler/Korver
PF: Taj/Bass
C: Howard/Asik

The Bulls would obviously need to upgrade on the wing, but that team right there would be very good and even better than last year’s defensively.

by dakoose on Oct 20, 2011 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

I like Howard but

NOOOAH!!

"I think every quarterback should believe they’re the best. Do I think there are better quarterbacks than me? Possibly. But would I take anyone else with the ball in their hands at the end of the game? I don’t think so." - Ben Roethlisberger-

by Mini Hulk on Oct 21, 2011 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

you know what i like best though?

championships

Should've traded for Melo.

by sin on Oct 21, 2011 11:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

True

But Rose and Noah’s chemistry is great. A guy like Howard wants the ball in his hands all the time

"I think every quarterback should believe they’re the best. Do I think there are better quarterbacks than me? Possibly. But would I take anyone else with the ball in their hands at the end of the game? I don’t think so." - Ben Roethlisberger-

by Mini Hulk on Oct 22, 2011 2:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

I understand and all

I just don’t like the idea of re-adjustment…And I don’t want to see Gilbert Arenas in a Bulls jersey…potentially at least

"I think every quarterback should believe they’re the best. Do I think there are better quarterbacks than me? Possibly. But would I take anyone else with the ball in their hands at the end of the game? I don’t think so." - Ben Roethlisberger-

by Mini Hulk on Oct 22, 2011 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not true at all.

A guy like Howard is the perfect second-banana who can feast off of easy scoring chances created by a perimeter ball handler, while simultaneously anchoring the defense. Howard pick-and-rolls with Rose (mmmmm) and the occassional post-up are all he really “needs,” especially since he’s spent so much time being the focal point of an offense only to fall short of the ultimate prize.

by arjoseph on Oct 24, 2011 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

We get Dwight without Gilbert yes

With Gilbert?…NOOOOOO

We Are Guardian Force...READ IT!...BAM!!!

by T.Moore on Oct 25, 2011 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

I had a mixed reaction to Friedell's column

In general, I agree with his skepticism about Howard coming to Chicago. On the other hand, the tone he takes in dismissing the possibility kind of hit me the wrong way.

And, despite his attempt to blast the ‘Howard to Chicago’ argument made by Bulls fans, he seems to make a few faulty assumptions himself, one of which you mention here. The other is the implication that Deng and Noah may not be that valuable in a Howard trade due to their contract size, injury history, or both.

No doubt the Magic will get high quality offers for Howard, but a package built around Deng (or Boozer) + Noah + ? is not pocket change.

by bryield on Oct 20, 2011 10:43 AM CDT reply actions   2 recs

indeed, it's like he borrowed KC's bucket

I don’t think Noah is the contract sink already that Friedell does, and he’d be maybe an even better centerpiece of a deal than Bynum.

BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 20, 2011 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

I don't understand the hard on

sportswriters have for Bynum. I’ve watched him a few times every season, and it doesn’t look like he is ever going to touch Shaq or Dwight. For that matter, I think Noah would be more lucrative as a centerpiece in a trade as you do.

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on Oct 20, 2011 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I have seen flashes of brilliance...

from Bynum. There are moments when he appears to be absolutely unstoppable. However, he seems pretty disengaged most of the time. If he gets his head on right he could be pretty awesome. He probably won’t.

by THEKILLERWHALE on Oct 20, 2011 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

This is the hyperbole that I don't understand.

I watch a TON of NBA and have seen lots of Bynum; he has his moments but I’ve never seen “flashes of brilliance.” I have seen some flashes of strong play, but nothing remotely brilliant.

by dakoose on Oct 20, 2011 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

You are right...

too hyperbolic. I mean he plays like a good center.

by THEKILLERWHALE on Oct 20, 2011 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

He's had stretches in which he's been solid

But to be fair to him, he gets marginalized an awful lot in the offense since there isn’t a significant P&R component in the triangle to force Kobe to work with him on the wing and Pau gets the lion’s share of touches in the post. On top of that, he hasn’t had a whole lot of time to build the same kind of synergy Gasol and Odom have on offense in which the two work off each other well in high/low action or block to block passing, so that further limits his options to put backs and the occasional post-up. He’s very good when he has an individual matchup on the block since he has soft hands and that huge body to bully his defender into deep post position, but especially last year, the team was so out of wack offensively that touches weren’t distributed well nor were any of the basic sets run well for that matter.

What really got Lakers fans excited was his post-ASG play last year in which he probably looked as good as he did during his breakout ‘07-’08 campaign since he started focusing a lot more on defense, which was the primary reason we went 17-1 after the break. He was really good on the boards, extremely active in help situations — the Lakers actually redesigned parts of the defensive scheme, especially the P&R defense, because he was moving so well on the interior — and his energy was infectious for everyone else. The difference whenever he exited a game and Gasol moved to center also started to become a lot more noticeable, although part of that was Gasol’s post-December malaise.

I wouldn’t call him better than Noah at that end — particularly since all I saw of Noah last season was after he came back from injury and didn’t look 100% — but I don’t think it’s remiss to say that he has a higher ceiling than Noah. From what we’ve seen of Mike Brown, he’s stated that he wants to implement a more San Antonio-inspired offense from the days in which he was an assistant with the Duncan/Robinson Spurs and give the bigs more opportunity to work, so he should get more attention next season, assuming there is one at any rate.

@brosales12

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu

by Ben R on Oct 21, 2011 2:17 AM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

That's a long winded way of saying he's solid.

Saying that its possible that his ceiling is higher than Noah’s isn’t saying all that much. Noah is a solid NBA center, but like Bynum, there’s nothing brilliant about him. I understand that Bynum is talented and has strong stretches of play, but he’s nothing to write home about.

by dakoose on Oct 21, 2011 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

nothing brilliant about noah

the man is one of the few centesr (is pau the only other one?) who could start and lead a fastbreak….i mean….yikes

I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!

by piccolomair on Oct 21, 2011 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's a very cool talent,

but extremely overrated. In fact, he cost the team a W this past year throwing the final possession away trying to lead a fast break. He’s a solid player, but he’ll probably never start an ASG and there’s nothing amazing about him. He’s damn solid though.

by dakoose on Oct 21, 2011 11:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Noah is one of the best rebouders in the game

He might only be 2nd to Howard when healthy.

by tuluse on Oct 22, 2011 2:29 AM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

kevin love....

Should've traded for Melo.

by sin on Oct 22, 2011 4:01 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

kevin love can board

put is no where near the defenders Noah and Howard are.

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on Oct 24, 2011 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

very true

except rebounding is just as vital as defending. if you have a PF who blocks 2 shots a game but only has 7 rebounds per (out of a potential 9-10), you could assume that those stats even out. ie, klove’s 15 rpg is just as good as a 12-13 rpg player with 2 blocks. basically my point is putbacks/second chance points are just as bad for a defensive unit as not blocking a contested shot, especially in the waning seconds of a game. missing a rebound could be the difference between getting a last shot and giving the other team the last shot.

i know, i know. i’m walking a fine line and i have no stats to back up my bravado. but someone has to make an argument for klove… he can hit the 3 too!

by grabmesomeBOOZ on Oct 25, 2011 1:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

well heres the thing

I feel Noah would put up those numbers if he was on the timberpups team and I know Howard would as well. Love has the 3 ball, yes, but he doesn’t have the defense or the athleticism of either.

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on Oct 25, 2011 11:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think blocks are actually a lot more valuable than rebounds

for one thing blocks are a stat of scarcity, and part of that is because shot blocking ability affects the game a whole lot more than what shows up on the scoreboard.

If you have a serious shot blocking threat, they are going to contest a lot of shots, as well as preventing more high percentage close range shots from the other team.

Then, to actually get a block is a pretty big deal, because it means that instead of just making it less likely the other team will score, you have actually eliminated any possibility of scoring on that offensive possession.

There are the guys who get you the need baskets," says Bulls reserve forward Brian Scalabrine, referring to the vital hoops that stop runs and close out games. "I have a different word for killers. I call them mother-------. And right now, Derrick Rose is the baddest mother------ in the league by far. He is the reason we win.

by slowmotion on Oct 28, 2011 1:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

My point was that post-ASG, he was downright dominant

Which he hasn’t been since ‘07-’08. And not “solid” insomuch as “game-changing.” He single-handedly powered the Lakers to that 17-1 streak, as practically every other player was performing at about the same rate and you could even argue that Gasol got worse during that period. He changed a relatively above average defense into an elite one. Combine that with his relatively refined offensive game and he’s really good; as I note above however, he hasn’t really gotten opportunities to shine in a Lakers offense that has a number of other high usage players. When Gasol was out for the start of the ‘09-’10 season for instance, Bynum was basically a 20-10 player since he became the focal point in the post. As Brown is implementing a system that will work to give him more touches, he’s probably going to get a lot more opportunities next year. My main quibble here is that I think people are short-changing him; you don’t put up four straight 20+ PER seasons without being somewhat more than solid.

@brosales12

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu

by Ben R on Oct 21, 2011 7:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Noah and Asik

The Magic are going to want a future.

I can predict the future using Norm Van Lier's crystal balls.

"Sam has a tendency to denigrate reports coming from any reporter who didn’t also cover the day Naismith first put up the peach baskets." - snley

by NBA Observer on Oct 20, 2011 10:52 AM CDT reply actions  

man if we could throw booz in there

and keep asik & taj, we’d be set

id give up jo for dwight

"Psycho: I'm liable to go Michael/take your pick: Jackson, Tyson, Jordan - Game 6."

by Belize on Oct 20, 2011 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

Any deal for Howard would have to include Noah and Asik

You do realize that having Howard makes both of the expendable to the point of nearly unusable? So trading them both includes assets to offer while still gaining.

by Alex Sonty on Oct 20, 2011 8:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

im just a fan of both

and i would love to see our draft pick come up under dwight

"Psycho: I'm liable to go Michael/take your pick: Jackson, Tyson, Jordan - Game 6."

by Belize on Oct 21, 2011 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

A few things...

I remember reading somewhere that some of the negotiations for the new CBA would eliminate sign and trades so that’s something to consider.

Second, any Howard deal would most likely include Noah and I’ll admit that that is a surprisingly hard pill to swallow. I love Jo more than I thought I would as a Bull and I’m not stupid enough to think they wouldn’t be better with Howard instead of Noah but man would it be weird.

Third, Howard doesn’t like that SVG yells at him? Has he seen Thibs?

Fourth, with the whole Alpha dog things playing out weird in Miami, I actually think Howard and Rose would be perfect. It definitely seems like Howard wants to be liked and goofy and hasn’t shown a great deal of leadership (at least nothing that I remember reading about). Rose on the other hand, while I won’t say doesn’t care about being liked, seems to care more about winning and getting better and letting the other stuff come out of that. If Howard came to the Bulls then I think the transition would be almost seamless in Rose being the unquestioned leader and voice of the team with Howard being his proverbial Pippen and everyone being ok with it.

by CubFan81 on Oct 20, 2011 12:12 PM CDT reply actions  

Adidas would fund it too

"I can accept failure, but I can't accept not trying." -- Michael Jordan

by bennythebull on Oct 20, 2011 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

I guess I'm inclined to agree with Thonus here

http://www.chicagonow.com/chicago-bulls-confidential/2011/10/dwight-howard-sets-the-stage-to-leave-orlando/

I’d be surprised if Howard isn’t wearing a Lakers jersey next season. If not the Lakers, I’d put the Clippers, Knicks and Nets as the most likely, in that order. My totally superficial judgment, based on my own paultry analysis, is that Howard wants to be a star more than he wants to be a star basketball player.

The Lakers have the pieces to get it done. Looking at this going forward – there is no legit reason the Lakers would just offer Bynum. It would appear to me they would offer Bynum AND Gasol. They have Odom to play the 4, Howard 5, Kobe at the 2 – you have a legit contender for the next 3 to 4 years.

by Basketball Smurf on Oct 20, 2011 4:22 PM CDT reply actions  

if dwight goes to the lakers

i will feel worse than watching that Scott Hall E:60 chico

[throws toothpick]

"Psycho: I'm liable to go Michael/take your pick: Jackson, Tyson, Jordan - Game 6."

by Belize on Oct 20, 2011 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

It would feel like how it must have felt in the early 70s...

A great young team that is just not quite as good as the other older, more talented, more experienced teams both in their conference and in the other one.

A decade of SUCK. Even with DR1.

Dammit, Noah+Booz for Howard can’t happen quickly ENOUGH.

by Doshi on Oct 20, 2011 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

doubt it would be noah+booz

what about this:

With options of: Bobcats pick/ Bulls 1st/ rights to Mirotic/ Taj Gibson (some of these not all)

If there is an amnesty, Orlando uses it on Arenas, and then waive Brewer/Watson after the season to save about 8 million, and start the 2012/2013 season without Duhon (3 million for a 3rd string PG) and Turk (inconsistent, high salary) and a 50 million cap number with a Nelson/Reddick/Deng/Bass/Noah (three of which would be in contract years) This is the rebuild option for Orlando, which saves money in the long run, and leaves them competitive in a Western Conference where they could sneak in a 6-8th seed during that time.

Versus the Laker option which would save no money, and make the Magic better (versus the post-howard Orlando roster after the Bulls deal) but not better than they were before the Wizards/Suns deals they made last season, it would carry more risk, because if Bynum doesn’t pan out, and Gasol fades, its firesale/lottery time.

Both deals will put butts in the Magic seats (which is critical considering team hollywood is soaking up florida fans) but the bulls deal makes them young, and ripe for another super star, while being in the playoffs.

The Bulls would then look like this:

Rose/Duhon
Bogans/Korver
Turkoglu/J.Butler
Boozer/Gibson
Howard/Orton

Plus a few veteran minimums (likely a combo guard/swingman/and another big) and this team is championship ready. And yes, Bogans would start again, but his 11 minutes wouldn’t look that bad considering the damage a Howard/Boozer frontcourt would do, and guaranteed open lanes for Rose.

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on Oct 21, 2011 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

No way the Bulls give up their ENTIRE front court for Howard.

I’d think they’d find some way to keep either Gibson or Omer. BTW, I was poking around with Deng being a part of the trade. But that’s not the ideal. I’d rather have Booz in the trade. But beggars can’t be choosers…

by Doshi on Oct 24, 2011 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

well once orlando loses howard

the next logical, logical step would be to remove long term contracts. Deng is more productive than Boozer, and has a year less. Also, if you look closely, in my deal I didn’t give up Gibson. But as sin said, once you have howard, the frontcourt is pretty much set. Boozer/Howard should be pretty darn good, since Howard is more than capable of covering for lax defending. Also, Boozer would likely never face a double team, meaning he could do some nasty work in the low block.

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on Oct 24, 2011 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm kinda a stickler for 1-position depth.

Meaning one decent backup perimeter player, and one decent backup front court player. Howard can’t play 48 minutes every game. Neither can Rose. Both need to be rotated at some point during the game. And would you really trust Booz to be productive on the court for more than 42 minutes at a time?

I’m not saying our starters wouldn’t be amazing beyond awesome and a legitimate contender for the Miami squad. I’d just be concerned that they couldn’t take us beyond the depth of the Mavs or similar teams.

But keeping either Taj or Asik (I’d like to hold onto both, but I know that won’t happen) would greatly help the cause.

by Doshi on Oct 24, 2011 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

dude
Rose/Duhon
Bogans/Korver
Turkoglu/J.Butler
Boozer/Gibson
Howard/Orton

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on Oct 24, 2011 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Once again

Eww

We Are Guardian Force...READ IT!...BAM!!!

by T.Moore on Oct 25, 2011 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

its the price you pay

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on Oct 25, 2011 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

I can't bear

Seeing Turkeyglue and Bogans…On the same court, I dont think I can take it. I dont care if we get Dwight…I Dont want to see that Ugh…I barely tolerated Bogans…Turkeyglue? hell to the no

We Are Guardian Force...READ IT!...BAM!!!

by T.Moore on Oct 25, 2011 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

what about just Turk

“Just one, just me”

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on Oct 25, 2011 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

you don't need a lot of positional depth in the playoffs.

i’ll take a 55 win season and a championship over a 62 win season and a loss in the ECF. i don’t care what the mavs did (with all that money cuban threw around)… you need stars to win. and JR isn’t gonna throw down as much cash to win, either. give me rose, howard, boozer (or rose, howard, deng) and extras over the miami 3 any day.

by grabmesomeBOOZ on Oct 25, 2011 1:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

Aside from Rose and Dwight

Eww

We Are Guardian Force...READ IT!...BAM!!!

by T.Moore on Oct 25, 2011 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think the Lakers have to offer Gasol/Bynum

Nor would they want to for that matter. Bynum/Odom and picks is already really attractive since Odom’s contract is essentially expiring since his ‘12-’13 season is non-guaranteed assuming he receives a buyout beforehand, and I’d struggle to come up with a better offer than that among the teams Howard is interested in. Maybe the Clippers offer the kitchen sink to pair him with Griffin, but I’d have to think that Howard would prefer to end up with the Lakers in any case.

You’re right that the team would still be really good considering that Howard has basically led a steaming pile of garbage outside of Nelson and Anderson to the playoffs, but I’m not particularly sure that Odom will age as gracefully as Gasol likely will, and last year already has a ton of red flags that it’s a bit of a fluke since he exceeded so many of his career norms in shooting and similar. If the Lakers were to give up both Bynum, Gasol, and picks, there would have to be more compensation coming back from Orlando since Bynum and Gasol basically make the Magic a playoff team in the East by themselves. For instance, if the Magic offered Nelson, not that they ever would mind you, then I could see the Lakers agreeing to it, so it’s likely never going to happen that way.

@brosales12

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu

by Ben R on Oct 21, 2011 2:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

If there's a hard cap, then there will be rollbacks, or at the very least, a multi-year grace period

If it’s just a stronger luxury tax, then Buss is probably fine with paying it so long as it isn’t completely ridiculous seeing that he’ll have an absurd revenue stream in the near future from the Lakers’ media deal, even after revenue sharing. Sure, he’s been more frugal in recent years, but that’s been on ancillary moves not involving the primary core, for which he’s been happy to shell out money for unless he doesn’t have to (when he hardballed Odom for instance, in which the only other option was a MLE offer from Miami he was never going to take). I really doubt he’ll skimp on paying Howard what he’s due (although with the way the CBA negotiations are going, the length and size of the deal probably won’t be terribly restrictive) along with paying Kobe and Pau. In any case, the more restrictive the system, the longer the grace period and ways to work around the new rules (restructuring contracts, getting rid of newly non-guaranteed deals, amnesty provisions, what have you), so the only things that would affect a Howard deal are things like yeah, the elimination of sign-and-trades, but that applies to every team wanting him that doesn’t have cap space.

As for the Lakers’ offer, they would almost certainly be taking back Turk in the deal (and using the amnesty provision on him immediately, but anyways), which I’d imagine any team would have to do so regardless. Combine that with the amnesty Arenas would almost certainly receive along with Odom’s non-guaranteed deal (and they can keep him should they see fit, which they might given that he’s a fit with SVG’s system and he’s probably the type of player who is forced to take a lower salary under the new CBA) and I don’t think cash savings are a problem here. As for Bynum, he might be getting paid for potential a bit, but as I noted above, he’s been a legit producer and borderline 20/10 player whenever he’s gotten enough playing time and touches and was probably only Howard’s and Chandler’s inferior among defensive bigs during the second half of last season given Bogut’s elbow problems. He also has a new extension coming up next year that will be under the new CBA, so his deal will almost certainly look more reasonable during the ‘12-’13 season.

I also think that you’re overrating what Chicago can offer. Noah is an excellent complementary piece for Chicago’s defensive-minded system and totally worth it to the Bulls at his current price, but not necessarily in the context of a rebuilding team given his offensive limitations, as I doubt he would ever turn into a consistent number two option. Same with Deng, who would be overpaid on a rebuilding team unless more touches reverted him back to his ‘06-’07 form. Asik, Gibson, and the Charlotte picks are nice assets to bandy about, but I don’t see that overall package being attractive to Orlando unless they can flip Deng for more assets elsewhere. Sure, Noah and Deng are nice pieces, but paying them a combined $24 million/year and climbing through ‘13-’14 isn’t an efficient allocation of resources for a rebuilding team given that neither of them project to be a number two option or better.

Finally, for the Clippers’ offer, sure that’s possible, but then we come back to Howard simply refusing to sign an extension there. You’re right that we simply don’t know where Howard is willing to play, but I think we can safely say that he’d prefer the Lakers over the Clippers. So yeah, I don’t think including Gasol is necessary since I’m not seeing better offers on the market. True, the Knicks and the Nets offered the house to get their stars, but I would point out the caveats in both cases. One was that Denver talked to the Lakers about a Bynum/Melo deal that would have also swapped around some minor pieces (probably Al Harrington for instance), and while Melo is obviously a far cry from Howard, it gives you a sense of Bynum’s value. Moreover, my recollection is that it was fairly well-established that Dolan, all of Walsh’s diplomatic denials afterwards notwithstanding, pushed Walsh to throw in more assets than he had to into the deal to get it done when Walsh could have hardballed until the deadline and got Melo anyways. As for the Williams trade, Utah got Harris, Favors and two firsts, which in retrospect, isn’t all that different what the Lakers’ offer is now for Howard. Harris has declined precipitously from his All-Star form and Favors has lots of potential but is very, very raw, so Bynum and Odom is a much better package with the difference in picks (one lottery and likely late lottery to mid-first round pick versus two late first rounders) somewhat making up for it.

At any rate, this all naturally comes back to where Howard wants to go, as even under the new CBA, he’ll have considerable leverage in the matter unless they institute that “Carmelo Rule” they were discussing, but that would screw over all parties in the discussion. Should be interesting to watch regardless, but wasn’t the BaB fixation on getting Iggy if I remember correctly? Some pre-draft rumors (that weren’t refuted by the LA Times, which makes it their life’s mission to kill most Laker rumors) claimed that the Lakers were discussing an Odom/Walton for Iggy swap and Philly was interested, so you guys should be able to get him for a sack of peanuts if that’s the case.

@brosales12

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu

by Ben R on Oct 24, 2011 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I hope he goes to the Clippers then.

A Gordon/Griffin/Howard combination? That’s three guys who could be part of future starting WC all-star teams for years to come (after Kobe retires.)

if you beard, you are really like my dad. you're old!

- my Chinese fiancee. So cute...

by Dr. Handsome, D.D.S. on Oct 21, 2011 11:26 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

if odom plays 3 or 4 more years

I will chop off my hand

Rodman is the best.

by Rodman4eva on Oct 23, 2011 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Better start looking for a good prosthetic.

@brosales12

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu

by Ben R on Oct 24, 2011 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

I would be willing to give up anyone beside D.Rose

they can take Deng, Noah, Boozer and my girlfriend if they want her for dwight howard to come to the bulls. lol

by Slick Ric on Oct 20, 2011 11:10 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

If you do that, you'd be taking on Gilbert Arenas.

If the NBA put that buyout clause into the CBA, I’d consider that the most epic win trade in the history of the NBA. But if not, we probably come out even at best.

by Doshi on Oct 21, 2011 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

I would balk if Orlando insisted on dumping Arenas on us

Considering we would have to give up Deng or Boozer, Orlando would have no reason to hold on Turkoglu and cause a high salary logjam at the 3/4.

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on Oct 21, 2011 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

yeah, i'd be amenable if we're forced to take back turk

but arenas? no.

Look
I didn’t want to offend anyone by saying the "f" word or generalizing my statement to any particular sex by saying "gays" or lesbians" or "bi’s" so "homos" is the most "politically correct" term. I’m just trying to be more tact in a tactless blog.

by Hindut Patrol on Feb 15, 2011 2:51 PM EST

by Jaina on Oct 21, 2011 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

look at this:

Arenas deal

notice how the Bulls winning percentage doesn’t change. isn’t that sad?

Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

by hedonism bot on Oct 22, 2011 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

i find it strange that the deal

is minus 7 for orlando, net neutral for the bulls. it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.

Look
I didn’t want to offend anyone by saying the "f" word or generalizing my statement to any particular sex by saying "gays" or lesbians" or "bi’s" so "homos" is the most "politically correct" term. I’m just trying to be more tact in a tactless blog.

by Hindut Patrol on Feb 15, 2011 2:51 PM EST

by Jaina on Oct 22, 2011 10:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Makes sense to me.

Howard is the entirety of the Magic; even getting two good starters in Deng and Noah and some good bench players doesn’t make up for his loss (but at least it’s better than letting him go for nothing). The Magic are going to drastically fall in a post-Dwight world (even if they remain a playoff team).

For the Bulls, we basically deplete our wings for an upgrade in the front court. If we were to roll out with Bogans and Butler(s) on the wings, that’s a pretty steep downgrade, potentially more than the upgrade in Howard over Noah over the course of a season.

Here’s the rub, though: we don’t care about regular-season wins as much as playoff potential. Consolidating the starting lineup with awesomer players who play more when the playoffs come will increase our win probability in the playoffs. Furthermore, we can make significant upgrades over Bogans/Butler(s) much easier than we could upgrade Noah/Deng, thus making our overall team better in the long run if we can upgrade Noah to Howard and worry about marginal gains in the wings later. (I’m thinking guys like Foye, Dunleavy, George Hill, Battier, Delfino, Roger Mason, Grant Hill, Pietrus, CJ Miles, etc., none of whom would break the bank but would certainly be upgrades over Bogans et al.)

by arjoseph on Oct 24, 2011 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Didn't want to go with "more awesome"

(which I know is technically correct) because it would have been ambiguous (“more” being potentially qualitative or quantitative). Also, “awesomer” is an awesomer word. Kind of like “more better.”

by arjoseph on Oct 27, 2011 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

i didn't mean to imply that i thought the bulls would be better, actually

i’d probably put them both in the negative category on this one lol.

i really don’t know if i agree with the premise that those guys you mentioned are significant upgrades enough up from bogans/butler to make it worth it. most of those guys are either old or terrible.

also, that trade totally decimates the depth of the backcourt, and i never, ever, want to see arenas dress for the bulls. ever. ugh.

Look
I didn’t want to offend anyone by saying the "f" word or generalizing my statement to any particular sex by saying "gays" or lesbians" or "bi’s" so "homos" is the most "politically correct" term. I’m just trying to be more tact in a tactless blog.

by Hindut Patrol on Feb 15, 2011 2:51 PM EST

by Jaina on Oct 27, 2011 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

D Ho

Isn’t it sad we all know he is heading to LA? I really would love to see the Lakers go through 10 years of pain, but it just never seems to happen. It’s just too warm and too packed with hotties out there. God, I only can hope that Buss’s kid is so hard-headed that he will refuse to part ways with Bynum (HIS GUY). I’d say the bulls get a long shot at this one. No matter what the cost, you always trade two forty cent pieces for a dollar. It would be hard to see Noah go, but the sad reality is we are talking about a lock hall of famer and a guy who is yet to be an all star…..

by Jud Buechler on Oct 23, 2011 11:17 AM CDT reply actions  

Your title should be renamed......

Dwight Howard’s fantasy about a bigger market is drool worthy
Dwight Howard’s fantasy about a bigger market is jizz worthy

by Da Bears2333333 on Oct 27, 2011 12:09 AM CDT reply actions  

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