The Bulls should ride it out instead of making a trade.
Let me begin my argument by saying that I do agree that we cannot win a title with a black hole shooting guard. But guess what, nobody expected us to win a title or even seriously compete for a title this season anyway. Sure from the beginning of the season we were called the dark horse candidate to win, but nobody really projected us winning much more than 50 games and probably a second round exit in the playoffs. Now because Derrick Rose has taken his game to legitimate superstar/MVP level we as fans and the media have also raised our expectations for what this team can accomplish which is both good and bad. Its good because fan expectations do in some part (to the degree is arguable) push the organization to continue to compete and get batter. Its also bad because it can lead people into a "win now" mentality which for us in unnecessary. Kobe needs to win now because he's playing one one leg and his game is only going to diminish, our superstar is 22 years old and baring any injury (knock on wood, throw salt over the shoulder) we have a 10 year window where will should be competing every year.
One of my biggest reasons I'm not too big on trades is because the talent on our bench typically is better than most teams in the league. Our bench has arguably 3.5 starters on it (Taj, Korver, and Brewer who'd I'd start as a defensive guard over Thabo and Raja Bell) and Thibs with his defensive scheme is able to crush opposing second units. But the main reason why I say no trade is because of something I heard Ric Bucher say a few weeks ago. On the ESPN NBA Today pod-cast he said that one thing that is almost positively going to come with the new CBA is a hard salary cap, and teams over that cap are going to have to release players to get under the cap. Now providing that what he said is true (about teams having to release players) imagine that the league has a hard cap set at for the sake of argument 70 million dollars
According to team payrolls found here http://hoopshype.com/salaries.htm the Bulls would be in an incredible spot. The top 4 teams you would pick over Chicago, Lakers, Celtics, Magic, and Mavericks all would be over the cap and would have to release a bunch of players and kill their depth. Other teams like Utah, Atlanta, and the Spurs are so close to the cap that they can't add much to get better. Even Miami with the way that the contracts are constructed are going to have a harder time each year putting out a quality team with 3 players taking up 75-80% of the payroll. While the Bulls being so far under the cap plus being smart with contracts are going to be able to put together quality teams year in and year out for the next 10 years.
Now I realize that this is just speculation at this point, but I guess my point is this: being an NBA GM is a lot like gambling. But right now we as a team an an organization are ahead. We are exceeding expectations and are thus basically playing with "house money" so lets not get greedy and allow our expectations to push us into something that will hurt us in the long term. Just think, Boston is only going to get older and worse, same as Dallas and LA/Kobe. Howard is talking like he wants out of Orlando but even if he doesn't does the new Orlando really scare you? They don't to me because at least the last Orlando played defense. This new Orlando team that all of the analysts love hasn't had a quality win since they luckily beat Boston 2 days after their trade. When they played them again the lost. They lost to OK, NO and the beat Dallas without Dirk so it doesn't really matter. After that they've really just been beating up the dregs of the league and when the play a good team the lose, kinda like Orlando in the playoffs last year. Miami will always compete but I still think when completely healthy we match up with them well because we're strong where they are weak (PG, C and Coaching Thibs is better than Spolstra not that Spolstra is a bad coach) and defensibly Brewer/Rose play Wade as good as anybody and Deng guards Lebron as well as anybody and we have 5 quality bigs we can throw at Bosh.
I guess my point is this, we got this far by being patient lets not get greedy and try to win it all now when we don't have to and possibly do something that will be far more damaging int he long run.
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Excellent point. I’d rather be GM’ing the Bulls than any other team in the league right now. And good poker analogy, as when you’re ahead in the game, it really does pay to choose your spots based on a high probability of additional success instead of going for broke. you can spend so much time wringing your hands over the 2 guard spot that you forget the big picture, which is very, very bright right now. BY FAR, the #1 consideration that should be driving the strategy of the Bulls is maintaining every capacity to EXTEND ROSE’s contract. And the #2 consideration should be making sure he has, not 4, but 12 players around him over that time to compete. This is how you win championships – just ask the Lakers and the Celtics. In time, I think this bulls team, if they don’t disrupt it too much, will reveal that Thibs may actually know what he’s doing (which isn’t surprising) and that the front office has played this well (which kind of is surprising).
by DisCUBbobulated on Jan 25, 2011 1:31 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I'd rather be GM'ing the Bulls too
because no matter how many mistakes I make, the worst punishment is going to be a title change.
by Gentleman Jim on Jan 25, 2011 8:55 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
I can understand why "Mamba 4 MVP" would think that
But I hope they look after an upgrade. Even if it is a minor one, such as Lee or CDR – maybe they can make it happen just using picks. But I would have no problem giving Taj or other for a solid SG
Did you vote for the ASG today?
I reeeeeeally like
CDR.
You must have me confused with someone else, I have never been to Chicago.
[whispers] I sexually assaulted Scottie Pippen in 1997.
I can understand not wanting to make a huge cap-crushing trade
But.. there’s no acceptable reason to go into the second half of the season with Keith Bogans as the starting SG. There are too many other better, reasonable options, to allow that to happen if you are the GM.
by Grinder in Training on Jan 25, 2011 1:47 PM CST reply actions
I would like to give one or two D-League players
ten-day contracts, mostly to give Deng or Rose some rest. But I’m sure Thibs can’t stand the idea of bringing in someone who doesn’t know his defense.
Let's get this straight
The league is not going to survive if they force teams to have to release players.
The Lakers are way too powerful a draw for the league to force them to split up Kobe-Gasol-et all, and Miami has brought the most viewership to the league since MJ left for the first time.
It ain’t happening.
Internet reports, etc are great and radio announcers are great at doing this fear talk to drive up discussions on the league (remember last year it was all that the league’s cap would drop so fast that no team could afford to keep what they had and sign even scary thought 1 max player…..
It’s just an internet story.
The league knows (and there are very smart, high end business men) that if they strike, they risk losing the little NBA comeback we’ve seen. THe league still has not fully recovered from the 1999 lockout. I really doubt their will be a lockout. If the fans leave, there’s little money for any. Ultimately the Owners need to keep their investment and the players need to see the numbers.
I don’t even think a lockout will happen next year, I think it’s the typical smoke and mirrors.
That said, we in Chicago have the historically cheap Reinsdorf, and I worry he won’t open his pocketbook to pay the tax, or if he does won’t make a move to make us even better down the line if we’re not quite there because of the tax. There was no tax in MJ’s day, if the tax remains, then there will be no hope of major external (new pieces) improvement, barring a lucky free agent signing or lucky late 1st round draft pick.
I fear we’re headed to be the next Orlando Magic (differently constructed) but perhaps a perenial ECF team that will always be the 3rd best team in the league.
With an owner unwilling to spend like Buss, Arinson, etc at least so far, it’s scary and Deng’s contract is the killer. Deng is solid, but overpaid as our 4th option (Even though he’d be a good 3rd option).
It's almost 2011 Bulls. Let's Get Grimy!!!
the league hasn't recovered from 1999 because the talent has been mediocre, the most exciting players haven't won championships
and there have been zero to no compelling rivalries. and i think the hard cap would result in teams shifting their role players around and sending some guys down to the d-league, not breaking up star tandems like kobe and pau.
"I'm broadening my horizons past basketball to vocabulary." - Jeff Van Gundy
by paddyfairview on Jan 25, 2011 3:21 PM CST up reply actions
No
The talent has been great (more european players, more specialists, etc,
THe league hasn’t recovered because the 1999 lockout hurt considerably, and 2 teams that were perenial powers in the late 80s and 90’s (#1 market Knicks and #3 market Bulls have been mediocre to bad), that certainly doesn’t help.
There have been plenty of rivalries….Celtics Lakers, Celtics Magic, Cavs Celtics, Spurs anyone, Dallas Anyone, Lakers, Spurs Suns, etc etc etc.
How can a hard cap work with the Lakers, $44M next year (moving up towards $50M) is tied to Kobe-Pau alone. If the cap is set at even $59M like today, that’s it….no room, they’d have to break that up.
It's almost 2011 Bulls. Let's Get Grimy!!!
celtics magic is a recent rivalry. spurs suns offers zero serious markets. "dallas anyone" is not a rivalry. etc.
nothing between 99 and 07 stacked up to old celts-lakers, bulls-pistons, bulls-NY. not in terms of intensity or major markets involved. things have picked up in the last 3-4 years and we’re at the peak of that right now (talent wise as well, with all the great 3rd 4th year players) which is why (duh) the league is at a peak in popularity.
the 99 lockout coincided with the end of the jordan era, and the next 6 years had only two real dynasties: the lakers and spurs, both west coast teams. the traditional bball markets are east coast. the east has been horrible between the 90’s and now, aside from boston and a brief flash by miami. the spurs, like the pistons, played team-first basketball to win titles, without flashy stars unless you count duncan, and i sure as hell do not. mcgrady, iverson, carter, LBJ and for a time even kobe were locked on crappy teams.
this decade has been the worst since the 70’s. blaming the lockout is way too simple of an answer.
and if you actually read the post he was assuming a hard cap of 70 million.
"I'm broadening my horizons past basketball to vocabulary." - Jeff Van Gundy
by paddyfairview on Jan 25, 2011 6:31 PM CST up reply actions
This is wrong on so many levels.
I’m not sure if a single part of what you said is correct.
by Grinder in Training on Jan 25, 2011 4:17 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
I think you are confusing making a trade with making a dumb trade
The Bulls should not trade for Rip Hamilton or Stephen Jackson or anyother long-term deal that would be a bad contract.
The Bulls absolutely should try to trade for a player on a rookie deal like Courtney Lee or OJ Mayo; or a guy with an expiring contract like JR Smith or Anthony Parker.
by JSB on Jan 25, 2011 3:31 PM CST reply actions 5 recs
Never Parker
Anyone of other three, it would be silly not to make a move for them. JR’s hops and attitude would gel with this grimy persona Rose and people have been talking about all season
by ArchieHemmingway on Jan 25, 2011 4:51 PM CST up reply actions
Why not Parker?
He is the most readily available and would be the cheapest in terms of picks and players.
He's contract is fine and the price is cheap
but isn’t that for a reason? he’s 35 years old and not doing much for the worst team in the league. I know cleavland is going young to see what they have in Christian and maybe Manny Harris but I dont see him as an upgrade to either Korver or Brewer (bogans doesnt count anymore) I rather take Moon, Gibson or hell even Harris or that Christian kid, they make barely half a mil each
by ArchieHemmingway on Jan 25, 2011 8:27 PM CST up reply actions
What if you can get Paker for basically nothing though?
Then he can take Bogan’s minutes. It makes us better this year, and the team can wait until next year to find a long term solution with more options: draft, MLE, off season trade.
Last year he had a TS% of .576 and USG of 12%
Keith Bogans has a TS% this year of .491, and USG of 10.4%.
Parker’s PER is terrible at 9.9, but it still 3 higher than Bogan’s 6.7.
I don’t know how good of a defender he is, but he has been a part of some good defensive teams in Cleveland, so he can’t be too terrible. He’s basically what we were hoping Bogans would be.
since you used the gambling analogy
At some point you’re going to have to gamble big to win. I see no better opportunity than this year. No clear cut favorite. We’re at the top without a healthy roster.
Gamble now for that SG and we might be set for the next decade.
The ultimate fan experience is no longer courtside seats, it's Keith Bogan's job.
I definitely agree that this year would be the perfect time for the trade
but I think the point of the post is that the bulls don’t have to make any desperation move
by ChiTownSportsMaster on Jan 25, 2011 7:43 PM CST up reply actions
thats also correct
but at some point youre going to have to pull the trigger and go all in for a title and i think this year is absolutely perfect with the top tier teams going downward and the next generation not yet fully capable of dominating yet
you cant keep playing it safe forever otherwise you will end up having to pull desperation moves
The ultimate fan experience is no longer courtside seats, it's Keith Bogan's job.
Hm yes, preemptive strike
I’m all for an upgrade with a trade. I just say, the bulls can afford to wait, up to a point at least, and they don’t have to give in to any team’s demands
by ChiTownSportsMaster on Jan 26, 2011 11:26 PM CST up reply actions
I think this is a reasonable strategy, as long as Bogans doesn't play.
The Bulls appear to have 3 shooting guards who are roughly league average at the position, and yet a player who is well below that standard starts and plays 16 minutes a game. A trade only feels so desperately necessary because Thibs’s blindspot for Bogans shows no signs of disappearing. By any metric, Bogans is both very bad in an absolute sense and significantly worse than each of the other options on the roster. Therefore, trading him for nothing would be a major upgrade.
Here’s an example of how the Bulls rotation could look without him:
PG: Rose 36 / CJ 12
SG: CJ 12 / Brewer 24 / Korver 12
SF: Deng 36 / Korver 12
PF: Boozer 34 / Taj 14
C: Kurt 30 / Asik 12 / Taj 6
Any of Brewer, Korver, and CJ could take the starting spot, but I actually think CJ makes the most sense from a minute allocation standpoint. He can simply play the first 6 minutes of every quarter, with the 1st and 3rd at SG and the 2nd and 4th at PG. Brewer and Korver can nearly maintain their current roles, perhaps with a couple more minutes each.
I’ve been very impressed with how the team has played on the rare occasions when Rose and CJ have been on the floor together. According to 82games, the Bulls are +27 in 19 minutes in the two most common lineups with the Rose/CJ backcourt. CJ can be an effective secondary ballhandler to take some pressure off Rose, and he’s a very good spot-up shooter. His vision and passing skills are quite poor for a PG, so he’s naturally more of a SG anyway.
by from the window to luol on Jan 25, 2011 7:53 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
Especially with Noah out of the lineup, the Rose–Watson back-court seems to be one of the better options when the team is struggling to score (and regardless of whether Rose himself is struggling to score or not). Whether Rose is playing off Watson, or Watson off Rose, both benefit from having another competent/confident dribbler who can drive into the paint and pass out from it — something at which Noah was actually pretty damn skilled, especially for a player of his size, and a facet of the offense which has been sorely lacking at times in his absence.
cj cant guard most of the leagues starting 2s, he doenst have the size
Do you really want CJ starting when we are playing the lakers,etc. Only Bogans and Brewer are capable of guarding the better offensive SGs, the problem is that Bogans just sux and Brewer messes up the spacing for Boozer/Rose. He cant even throw an entry pass to Boozer because other teams don’t respect his jumper(rightly so). The Bulls really need to upgrade to a player who can guard starting 2s and hit the open 3.
by RoseTyrusMancrush on Jan 25, 2011 8:14 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Just start out with Rose guarding the opposing two-guard
Watson guards the opposing PG for the first six minutes of every quarter, hypothetically, and – depending on match-ups – either plays longer or shorter than that on a given night.
I guess we should've signed McGrady
he’s playing well, the Pistons look a lot better with him on the floor than with Rip. For those few stalwarts who still fancy one Richard ’R.I.P." Hamilton, consider that.
Let me shore up a couple of points.
First I’d like to thank everybody for their comments being that this is my first serious post I appreciate the feedback and debate with other bulls fans.
Now I’d like to say in response to majoyenrac, I don’t think that by setting a hard salary cap you are splitting up kobe and pau or the big 3 in miami. By having a cap that you cannot go over it forces teams to be smarter with how they allocate their resources. For example to win it all in today’s nba you have to pay the luxury tax. You just do, to add the quality of players and depth that you need. Thats one of the things that hurts us is that we don’t have an owner willing to pay the tax. By having a hard cap it basically says to the lakers pay kobe 20 mil and paul 18 mil if you want. But can you afford to pay odom 14 mil per, shannon brown 3 mil per etc. It forces orlando to say we can’t pay gilbert 20 mil per and bring him off our bench, while paying nelson to start then way over pay to keep reddick. The hard cap with hurt the big players depth while making us stronger because our quality depth comes mostly from cheap young players and not expensive veterans.
The other point I would like to make is that I’m not against a trade like someone pointed out just a bad trade and I think giving up Taj except in the case of an elite player is a bad trade. The reason being is our front line of boozer and noah has shown to be fragile and injury prone. Noah I think is more just two isolated incidents vs a pattern but with boozer we know he’s going to miss somewhere between 15-25 games a season guaranteed. Having a starting quality back up being able to come off the bench means that not only do we have an advantage against most 2nd unit bigs but when boozer is out there is not a massive drop off in play between boozer and taj. None of the potential SG trade prospects out there get me to think that including Taj in a trade for them is a good idea. I’d give you draft picks jj and cash for C Lee and Marcus Thorton. But J.R. Smith to me personally brings too much baggage with him. Is he a great player? Yeah, he brings athleticism, energy, toughness and shooting which I like but also has major character issues, work ethic issues and is a volume scorer who will shoot you out of games just as much as keep you in them.
O.J. Mayo has never lived up to the hype in my opinion. Coming into the league he was supposed to be a D. Wade light sort of a player Athletic, take over a game, dominate in stretches. But once again he has shown to be another high volume inefficient scorer who has shown no significant upgrades in his game during his time in the league. Plus the salary he will ask for to me doesn’t fit the production we will get out of him. Out of Mayo my big question is can he take his game to an elite level (22-25 ppg and combined 8-9 reb. + ast per night) and being the 3rd – 4th option in our offense I don’t know if he or whoever the future SG will be will get enough touches to do that. In a lot of ways a player such as anthony parker I think would be the best fit for what we need because he actually does what bogans is supposed to do. He can play solid man defense (will be much better in our scheme) and can consistently hit the 3 at a rate which will force his defender to stay with him thus spacing the floor for rose and boozer. His age is just a killer though.
Taj is NBA filler
don’t overrate players just because they play for your team. Pretty much any deal that were off the table unless Taj is included should be made.
Nobody out there is really clamoring for Taj Gibson, if some foolish GM thinks he has a ton of value, you’ve got to sucker that guy.
by Gentleman Jim on Jan 26, 2011 10:35 AM CST up reply actions
The only trade the Bulls should make is for a new coach.
And spare me the games-over-.500 nonsense. It was the same story this year with the Bears: poorly-coached and only able to get as far as they did by pure luck of the schedule.
by Jerry Mumphrey on Jan 26, 2011 11:19 AM CST reply actions
Do you own a TV?
"What do you think, I just dunked my whole career?" Jordan asked Henderson after making a 3.
"You’ve got to miss eventually," Henderson told him.
"That’s what Cleveland said," replied Jordan
This season is nothing like the Bears season
The Bears had no injuries and a favorable schedule. The Bulls have had a tough schedule and have had 2 of their best players out for a significant portion of the season.
by JSB on Jan 26, 2011 3:49 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
You are now a clippers fan.
Go.
doesn't like Keith Bogans.
Nothing you have said holds any basis in reality. Lets break it down real quick.
And spare me the games-over-.500 nonsense
so our win loss record means nothing? ok.
It was the same story this year with the Bears
This season in no way resembles the Bears season…WAIT!!…….no. No it doesn’t. At all.
poorly-coached and only able to get as far as they did by pure luck of the schedule.
Thibs has turned us into an elite defending team, despite a VERY DIFFICULT early schedule and we’ve beaten the most of the teams in the easier stretch, which as an ‘elite’ team, you are supposed to do. We are also only 3 1 games out of 1st place in the east despite significant injuries to core players in the starting lineup.
You sir, are a dickbeard.
Boom! Asik, Asik, Asik the room.
by mrdope on Jan 26, 2011 6:50 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs

















