NBA Top 30 Shooting Guards (No Current Bulls)
Do the Bulls have a hole at shooting guard? We've been debating the merits of Rudy, Henry and McGrady for a while now. Kelly Dwyer is ranking the top 30 at ever position (Rose was #5 point guard) and its pretty clear that Deng, Boozer and Noah will all be on that list, with each guy a candidate for top 10 inclusion. The one position where the Bulls have no one is SG. How important is it that the Bulls add a high-quality 2 guard to the roster?
Here is 20 thru 11 on Dwyer's List -
Notably, the list includes 4 former Bulls: 18. J.R. Smith, 15. John Salmons, 14. Ben Gordon and 12. Jamal Crawford The list also includes off-season target J.J. Redick 17 and Sam Smith favorite Monta Ellis (#11). Hell, even Thabo made it at #29.
Is Brewer/Korver/Watson/Bogans enough? What kind of production do the Bulls need out of the 2 guard position to be successful?
Last year shooting guard was by far the Bulls least productive position, with an average PER of 12.8 a game. By comparison, other top point guards (guys ranked 1 thru 4 on Dwyers list ) received better production out of their back court mates than Rose - the Utah Jazz got an average PER of 14.2, the Suns got 17.5, the Celtics got 16.2 and the Hornets got 14.5.
http://www.82games.com/0910/0910CHI5.HTM
Can we expect a boost from our current guys? I believe so, but I still think we should be reaching to get someone better. Some people have an irrational fear that pairing Rose with a 2 guard who wants the ball may hurt the Bulls, but I think its the opposite. This post isn't really to nominate someone for the position, but to just highlight the Bulls still haven't found a player to pair with Rose. Or do you guys think what the Bulls currently have at the 2 is enough?
**********UPDATE*****************
10 thru 1 have been published with Wade #1 and Kobe #2. And I think I'd take Manu 4 and K-Mart at 8.
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brewer shoud not be a top 10 guard. hes not even a legit starting 2
from now on instead of saying "go fuck yourself" im gunna just say "go join the heat"
Except he started for Utah...
For the better part of three seasons…next to D.Williams. Top 10, probably not, but certainly worthy of consideration for top 20.
What merits were given for this list?
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
by Dionysus2.0 on Aug 19, 2010 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
umm just because he started doesnt make him starter material
he started because he was the best option they had. but imo hes too limited to be a starter.
hes just an athletic wing who can play defense and nothing else really well
from now on instead of saying "go fuck yourself" im gunna just say "go join the heat"
And Matt is going to write a 5,000 word column on why Michael Jordan is his role model.
DANIEL HUDSON SUCKS. HOWS THAT GUN BAN WORKING FOR YOU MAYOR DALLY
by Ozzie Montana on Aug 19, 2010 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions
i want brewer to be like a sg version of gerald wallace
maybe a sg version of gerald wallace-lite….basically use his athleticism and defense to get steals blocks or just force turnovers, then run the court for dunks….
I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!
I find it hard to believe that Thabo is better than Brewer
Brewer is not completely useless on offense. He doesn’t have a reliable jumper, but he is a better ball-handler than Thabo as well as better on the fastbreak and finishing at the basket.
And Brewer is pretty good defensively too.
by Dr. Handsome, D.D.S. on Aug 19, 2010 4:39 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
i'd take brewer over thabo any day.
i used to like thabo and then just came to the realization that he sucks.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
by Jaina on Aug 19, 2010 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Same with me
I used to like THabo because of all the Paxson press about his offensive tools that we just never saw (I hoped he’d get confident then magically show them), but I wonder if there is a worse wing O player in the league than Thabo. He has limited handles, he can’t pass (well he can make a nifty pass and then make 3 easy turnovers on other passes), he can’t shoot—which is his biggest flaw—and his D is good, but it’s not nearly as good as the press says it is (Kendall Gill started to point out that Thabo moves his long arms around and because he’s lanky it shows some good D at times, but he’s incredibly easy to blow past). I watched us do that to him time and time again the next game, and saw the same thing happenign downt he stretch and in the playoffs…..
He is a good defender because folks forget to move with the ball and if they stagnate, Thabo’s D is solid, but he’s far from the elite defender his ESPN rep indicates, adn I’d say Westbrook is a better defender than Thabo.
He’s on a good team for hsi skills with Durant shooting away, and Westbrook ready to take it up when the double comes….but put him on an average team and he’d be a big black hole.
2010-2011: I put the Scottie-Barkley Rockets feud curse on the Wade-James-Bosh trio.....
I disagree
I don’t think there’s a better perimeter defender in the league than thabo right now.
Pat Riley is the devil.
I think that all depends on whether you factor in getting burned on the perimeter into his perimeter D
a good perimeter defender has long arms and speed, so that he can keep his body far enough away to keep the offender infront of him but close enough so that should the opposing player go for a perimeter shot, a hand can still appear in his face.
Thabo has the long arms bit, and maybe he has enough speed, but he still gets blown by enough that I’m… I wouldn’t call him the best perimeter defender in the league. Does perimeter defense matter if you just let them drive past you from the perimeter?
A true friend stabs you in the front - Oscar Wilde
I don't think he gets blown by nearly as much as you think he does.
Pat Riley is the devil.
by Poloplaya14 on Aug 21, 2010 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions
can we make a rule where people stop referencing videogames for any sort of argument
and a second rule that, if we let them, it has to reference this years?
A true friend stabs you in the front - Oscar Wilde
by dantheman3k on Aug 21, 2010 7:34 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
John Salmons must have been better than we thought to make the list twice...
I got the skills to pay the bills and that's about it
by Rose Colored Goggles on Aug 19, 2010 4:41 PM CDT reply actions
He's just having some fun.
Lawson was the goat for the PGs.
by Dr. Handsome, D.D.S. on Aug 19, 2010 6:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Unless Rudy Fernandez is in the top 10
He’s not on the list either
The Funk Might Fracture Your Nose
by chibullsareback on Aug 19, 2010 9:11 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Well the list is based on the player's expected production, not necessarily their talent
For example, part of the reason Rose was so high was the fact that he figures to have a much better supporting cast around him. As it stands, Rudy is a backup who’s apparently threatening to sit out the season. It makes sense that he’s not on the list. But that doesn’t mean he wouldn’t be on the list on a team where he’d be in a position to start.
Pat Riley is the devil.
by Poloplaya14 on Aug 19, 2010 11:39 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not sure what his criteria are
but I wonder if MJ would have made the list. Given that MJ made his living in the Triangle and posting up players like John Starks, I’m thinking that MJ doesn’t make the list either. Which is to say, I have an incredible amount of confidence in Thibs to create PnR opportunities and back door cuts for Brewer and Deng that we won’t even remember that Brewer, Deng, etc., can’t shoot 3’s, aren’t in the top 30 in SG’s.
It's hard to say right now how good we'll be at SG
It obviously comes down to how much success Brewer has, and I think that’s going to be extremely dependent on what offense we run and how well it works. I have my doubts that Brewer and Deng will be able to coexist that well on offense since neither is a legitimate 3-pt threat and they both thrive on slashing to the basket. Then again, Brewer flourished in Utah playing next to Kirilenko, who is similar to Deng in a lot of respects. I’m going to wait to see Brewer play in a Bulls uniform before I condemn him, but I am skeptical that he’ll be a good starting SG. I can say for sure that I’d be much more comfortable with a legitimate 3-pt threat at SG. I think there’s a very good chance at the end of the season that I’m going to look back and wish that the Bulls had either offered more to Redick or pursued Rudy more aggressively.
Pat Riley is the devil.
by Poloplaya14 on Aug 19, 2010 11:48 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I agree
And the thing that I keep thinking about is John Salmons before we traded him last year. Do people forget how down on him we were? He was a disaster offensively because he wasn’t hitting any shots. It’s gonna be the exact same thing with Brewer. Is Brewer THAT much better on defense than Salmons, that we won’t mind? I doubt it.
Like you said, we already have a guy in Lu, that will be making a lot of cuts and slashing. I just don’t think it’s the right fit. I’m giving a little pause because I’m not so sure what Thibs’ offense will look like, but I doubt that will change things. Within about a month of the season,, I expect to see a lot of Watson and Korver at the two with people around here clamoring for a trade at the deadline.
Superteams suck.
by Juiceboxjerry on Aug 20, 2010 12:23 AM CDT up reply actions
Brewer isn't expected to score though...
John Salmons pissed people off because he was supposed to be good at scoring. It’s not going to be the exact same thing at all.
by Grinder in Training on Aug 20, 2010 8:32 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't know
John Salmons’s ball handling skills were questionable at times and his shot selection(especially in clutch situations) were not executed using his best judgement. Brewer may not be not be a great outside shooter like Salmons but I think Brewer knows his limitations on mid range to outside range jumpshots and his ball handling skills are superior to Salmons. Brewer’s scoring is done mostly closer to basket which is a higher percentage scoring option that he will always take advantage of.
by Brutha Bonzo on Aug 20, 2010 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm not sure Jamal is better than BG or even Salmons
by JustAnotherFan on Aug 20, 2010 10:27 AM CDT reply actions
I'd say he isn't
Though Jamal of last year was better than the injured BG and the first half slumping Salmons….
2010-2011: I put the Scottie-Barkley Rockets feud curse on the Wade-James-Bosh trio.....
Top Shooting Gaurds according to Hoopsworld
- Kobe Bryant – Los Angeles Lakers:
- Dwyane Wade – Miami HEAT:
- Brandon Roy – Portland Trailblazers:
- Joe Johnson – Atlanta Hawks:
- Monta Ellis – Golden State Warriors:
Just Missed the Cut:
Tyreke Evans – Sacramento Kings:
Manu Ginobili – San Antonio Spurs:
Kevin Martin – Houston Rockets:
Honorable Mention:
Ray Allen – Boston Celtics
Stephen Jackson – Charlotte Bobcats
O.J. Mayo – Memphis Grizzlies
Ben Gordon – Detroit Pistons
IMO, Thabo and R. Brewer are similar in the way that they both focus on defense at the shooting gaurd position. Thabo has a better 3 pt shot, but Brewer is more explosive in transition and is able to get to the rim more than Thabo. IMO, I believe Brewer is better than Thabo, but not by much and either one shouln’t be in the top 30. We could only hope that Ronnie Brewer could be anywhere near like a Gerald Wallace at SG. Wallace has a nice all-around game, an all-star, and is somewhat like a Scottie Pippenn in some respects.
SG position seems kinda shallow
production drop-off after the first 3 is massive
by Stacey_Is_King on Aug 20, 2010 10:11 PM CDT up reply actions
But on some nights, Manu can be just as good as anybody in the league
And on a related note, I actually think if u just examine the production and the players RIGHT NOW, Wade is better than Kobe.
by ChiTownSportsMaster on Aug 20, 2010 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions
manu i think is gonna retire as being one of the best sgs in the league
but at this point, just due to health and declining athleticism, id say he isnt one of the best. About 4 years ago though manu was definetly the number 2 sg in the league, second to kobe….speaking of which…i still think kobe is all around better than wade. He can do everything wade can, and has a much better shot, less of an injury history despite his age, and just is bigger and more athletic.
I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!
by piccolomair on Aug 21, 2010 12:26 AM CDT up reply actions
I think that on a per-minute basis, he's still clearly one of the best
He’s definitely top 4 and arguably better than Roy, but the problem is that he doesn’t play that many minutes. Ginobili averages under 30 mpg, so you have to discount his production to a large extent. Joe Johnson and Tyreke Evans aren’t quite as good, but because they play so much more, they make a much bigger impact each game.
Pat Riley is the devil.
Kobe's not as athletic as Wade, but you're still right
I don’t understand why Kobe is content with being so inefficient (compared to the other league elites). He’s better than Wade overall, but Kobe needs to learn it’s not needed to be the hero every game. We already know you’re the leader, Kobe, stop taking 30 ft threes with your team down one.
by Stacey_Is_King on Aug 23, 2010 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Well yeah, if he was healthy and had consistend minutes
he’d be better than Roy. And Reke’s better than Monta right now.
by Stacey_Is_King on Aug 23, 2010 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions
This list is ridiculous
Monta Ellis should probably be 50th, and I’d put Ginobli fourth [w/Evans 5th as a result … JJ can be 6th I guess].
Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!
Last year we had Pargo, crappy Salmons and
Kirk out of position, respectively shooting 35, 42 and 41% from the field last year (though both Hinrich and Salmons were solid from behind the arc). Korver, Brewer and Watson will definitely be better than that offensively. Brewer scores a lot of assisted dunks, and given our tendency to run and the fact that we have a lot of other players to draw defensive pressure, that trend will continue.
I also have a suspicion that Korver will play more minutes at two than we expect (that is unless we get a guy like Rudy) thus having a huge affect on our 3P%, thereby raising our efficiency at SG; his three point shooting will be an immediate improvement over anyone we had and its not out of the question that he isn’t asked to shoot more like he did in Philly where he was taking 5 3PA a game (one year he took 6.8).
Watson is obviously up in the air, but if we are asking him to be as good as Pargo, I think we can just about wrap it up. His college three point shooting numbers are pretty awesome and his first two NBA years are fine; I would chalk the recent fluctuation more up to Nellie’s offense than his play—though one would have to confer with a Warriors fan to know definitively.
Anyway, I think that our rotation will continue to frustrate and remain our weakest position, but it will surely improve. These are low turnover, smart and efficient (in their own ways) players who can all move the ball. I think that is a lot more than we can say about the group we had last year.
I saw T2 at Walgreens in Deerfield he’s tall. if you’re wondering what his grocery list included: magnums, french vanilla ice cream and a 20 oz sprite
by Super-Structure on Aug 22, 2010 3:17 AM CDT reply actions
i don't know if Korver, Brewer and Watson
will produce volume, but I agree they should all be improvements in efficiency, especially Korver and Brewer. A Rose-Korver-Deng perimeter worries me though, because outside of Rose, they have zero speed and none of those guys force turnovers or pressure the ball.
I think we have a lot of guys who bring aspects of what we want the Bulls to do at the 2, but no one who is the full package. The key is Brewer. If Brewer and Deng can figure out how to play together on the wings, better than Salmons/Deng, than the Bulls could see a big improvement. One thing that gives me hope is that Brewer doesn’t need the ball to be effective like Salmons does. If Brewer is producing like he did in his first 3 years in Utah, the Bulls could be a top 3 team in the East.
by Basketball Smurf on Aug 22, 2010 4:56 AM CDT up reply actions

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