The Importance of Rose's Third Season
Through all the discussions around here about what to expect from the Bulls this season, one caveat keeps getting thrown out there: None of this matters if Rose breaks out. Which got me thinking, how likely is that Derrick would break out in his third season? After all, most players show their greatest improvements between the first and second seasons. Shouldn’t we have already seen his biggest jump? Even if he does “break out,” what kind of improvement could we realistically expect?
I started out looking at the first three seasons of all players drafted since 1998-99 to give myself 10 draft classes to work with. I further limited the list to players who had played a minimum of 1000 minutes in each of their first 3 seasons (an adjustment was made to account for the lock out shortened 1999 season). What I found was confirms the earlier assertion: players, on average, have a bigger improvement between the first two seasons than between seasons 2 and 3. Just looking at PER (but this was true across the board) players improved by 9.01% during year two and followed with a 6.22% improvement in year 3. That’s still a nice improvement, and if Derrick followed that course, he’d post a 19.76 PER next season. Good, but far from the great needed to make this team a contender.
Looking for some hope, I broke out groups of players who were under the age of 22 as rookies, point guards, and players who posted a USG% greater than 20 each season and various combinations of each. There were no significant changes in my findings. Some groups had greater improvements from year to year, but still not enough to make me think Derrick had a chance to be on his way to a Top 10 player.
My final step was to take a look at a subjectively identified list of players. I wanted to pick out those that were perimeter players considered to be franchise cornerstones either when drafted or within the first 3 seasons. That left me with 7: LeBron; Wade; Melo; Roy; Durant; Paul; Deron.
This group left me feeling hopeful and concerned at the same time. The hope came from they’re bucking the trend of greater improvement between the first 2 seasons. This group improved their PER by a substantial average of 18.88% between years 1 and 2. Things got better, though, as from year to year 3, their PER improved by 22.24%. This wasn’t a fluke caused by one or two outliers. Look at the below second to third year improvements.
Brandon Roy 23.71%
Carmelo Anthony 31.74%
Chris Paul 28.64%
Deron Williams 21.64%
Dwyane Wade 19.48%
Kevin Durant 25.96%
LeBron James 9.34%
LeBron’s the lowest, but he was following up a 40.44% improvement from rookie to second year. If Derrick were to follow a similar improvement schedule, he’d be at a 23.84 PER next season. Does Derrick even belong being mentioned with this group? In looking at their second year PERs, I’d say yes.
Derrick Rose 18.6
Brandon Roy 19.4
Carmelo Anthony 16.7
Chris Paul 22
Deron Williams 17.1
Dwyane Wade 23.1
Kevin Durant 20.8
LeBron James 25.7
So, why does this leave me concerned? Because I think the course of this season could determine whether Derrick makes that elite jump or is just another high volume, low efficiency scorer. In other words, this could be a make or break year.
I followed up looking at the fourth year of the available players from this small pool (minus Durant, obviously). After big jumps in their second and third seasons, each player saw either a regression or a significantly smaller jump from their third to fourth season. The percent change from years 3 to 4 was actually -2.51%. Again, this is a very limited pool, so the conclusions drawn from it probably shouldn’t be taken all that seriously. Still, it seems that these very elite, perimeter players made immense improvements from years 2 to 3.
One more thing I want to call attention to is Derrick’s FT/FGA ratio compared to this pool. His inability to get to the line has been much maligned and deservedly so. It really, though, stuck out like a sore thumb compared to these guys. The average FT/FGA for the group in their second seasons was .32. Derrick’s was .19. The lowest in the group was Deron at .21. However, he jumped to .29 in his third season. If we’re going to see that jump from Rose, I think it’s going to be because he’s getting to the line far more than his three point shot.
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Well, does it have to be points?
I think we’ll grow comfortable with the idea that he doesn’t have to score more points. His greatness will be measured, now, but the team’s output.
DelNegro gone fishin.
The team is finally built around him and his needs as a PG.
Everyone has been raving about his play on Team USA. He looks calm, confident, and in control. He’s extended his range to 3.
Don’t worry, lol.
eat. sleep. hoop. repeat. become legendary.
I completely agree about FT being more significant than an improved 3PT shot
The improved 3pt shot is nice (assuming it materializes) but Derrick was already pretty unguardable to begin with. There was nothing wrong with opponents backing off of him and letting him drain one of his now patented mid-range shots. The problem was his inability to get to the line.
Whether or not he simply avoids contact (a notion I disagree with) or does not get the calls he should get (the notion I agree with) if he does not up his free throws to say 6 or 7 a game then I don’t think he will be as efficient a scorer as he could be.
Still, if his scoring doesn’t take a monster leap, as long as his assists go up and his defense improves I think he will be making a significant improvement from last year and will help the team greatly.
by Dr. Handsome, D.D.S. on Aug 13, 2010 12:35 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
This is pretty good analysis
I mean, you acknowledge the small sample size, but I think the stats are still somewhat relevant — especially the CP3 and D-Will comparisons. Not in style, but progression.
Also, I agree 100% on the FT thing — although the 3PT shot won’t hurt in the least.
I got the skills to pay the bills and that's about it
by Rose Colored Goggles on Aug 13, 2010 1:12 PM CDT reply actions
Tony Parker kept developing till year 8
It took Marbury 5 years, Iverson 5 years, Devin Harris 5 years. I wouldn’t say this is make or break, but I think it would be a really bad sign if he has neither a 3pt shot nor a significant FTA increase this year.
Well, it's encouraging that Parker and Iverson kept developing, because Rose is pretty similar to them as a PG.
The Chicago Bulls hate shooting ability.
by fundamentallysound on Aug 13, 2010 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Marbury, too, actually.
The Chicago Bulls hate shooting ability.
by fundamentallysound on Aug 13, 2010 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Rose's FG %
for both years combined is > than any single season FG% Marbury EVER had.
The point being he is a much more efficient offensive player overall… and he hasn’t even ever played with a real PF to rack up the assists. Marbury had Garnet when he came in the league. Give Rose Garnett in his prime and see what kind of numbers he could put up!
The make or break part is more about him being one of the clear cut best players
For all his infamy, I don’t think Iverson ever truly reached that point and he was probably the best of that group. I would be very happy if Rose had a career as productive as Iverson. I’d be even happier if he makes that big leap like Durant, Wade, or Paul
Well, isn't what LeBron did last night the living embodiment of The Secret, leaving millions on the table and turning himself into a hometown villain, all for the sake of winning?
Neil Paine, basketball-reference.com
I'm not the world's biggest Iverson fan, but he won an MVP.
I am with you though about the other guys.
the problem with using iverson's mvp season
is that he wasn’t a top 5 player in the league that year either.
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
by MarketMaker on Aug 15, 2010 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
OP: "Because I think the course of this season could determine whether Derrick makes that elite jump or is just another high volume, low efficiency scorer. "
Last year, he shot 49% from the field, with a TS% of 53, and 1.18 points per FGA. He’s certainly not a “low-efficiency” scorer now, especially for the PG position. And that counts his time last November/December when he was playing while injured. Though I do agree that improving the ability to draw fouls and elevate his FTA’s will have more impact than his 3pt shooting, which is also important.
TS of 53% is below average and he shoots a lot. That fits with the description of high volume, low efficiency scorer.
The Chicago Bulls hate shooting ability.
by fundamentallysound on Aug 13, 2010 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Exactly
he has a high FG% for a PG shooting as much as he is, so all he needs is free-throws.
by Stacey_Is_King on Aug 13, 2010 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Point taken...
53% seemed pretty good to me, but then when I checked the comparables, you were proven correct. Though on the good side, if he gets more FTA’s (by both working to draw more fouls and getting more love from the ref’s), he’d be in much better shape given his raw FG%.
4 more shots ( 2 more trips) would raise his TS% to 57%
I think I read that somewhere.
by Stacey_Is_King on Aug 16, 2010 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions
And if I had a million dollars, I'd be a millionaire.
Until he does it, it’s just a nice dream.
The Chicago Bulls hate shooting ability.
by fundamentallysound on Aug 16, 2010 11:14 PM CDT up reply actions
It's not a prediction or anything of that sort
just continuing kozzer’s statement. Since Rose has a very good FG%, potentially his TS% could go into the 60’s if he shot 3’s and hit enough FT’s. He’s close.
by Stacey_Is_King on Aug 17, 2010 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Great read - and I agree with most of your concerns.
However, I am going to withhold judgment until Rose actually plays within a real offensive and defensive framework, as opposed to the context of the last two seasons. I don’t mean this as a “blame it all on Vinny” statement, but I do think Rose’s options were pretty limited (especially last year), which may explain the lack of a sizable jump in PER from y1 to y2.
All of Rose's development was due to Vinny Del Negro, obviously
Now that the Bulls have a new coach, I expect Derrick to degress into rookie year numbers.
"Oh, y ahora ¿quién podrá defenderme?" "¡Yo!"
by chapuforyou on Aug 13, 2010 4:35 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
An interesting comparison
Player Season PER TS% AST% TOV% USG% Rose R 16.0 51.6 28.8 13.3 22.6 Thomas R 14.5 48.7 32.6 19.2 25.0 Rose 2 18.6 53.2 30.3 12.5 27.2' Thomas 2 18.9 52.5 30.3 15.6 26.1
Rose and Isiah Thomas are pretty similar for their first two seasons. Isiah did not get much better at his scoring efficiency. He had one solid season at 55.4 TS%, but that was it. This is mostly due to the fact that his 3pt percentage did not improve. However, his ast% made big strides in years 3 and 4. If Rose can become like Isiah Thomas with a 3 point shot, he’d have a great career ahead of him.
Although here is something better…I searched for all players who between the ages of 18 and 21 did what Rose did his first two seasons (PER>15, TS%>50, AST%>27, TOV%<15)…the list was Rose’s first two seasons, Chris Paul’s first two seasons, Tony Parker’s second and third season, Stephon Marbury’s third season, and LeBron James’ second and third seasons. What Rose has done his first two seasons is not unprecidented, but it puts him in great company. Parker, CP3 and Marbury had some rough TS% years early. Parker and CP3 improved TS% over the years, Marbury did not. Rose and LeBron had the lowest TOV% on the list. You can see the list here.
"Mental toughness is to physical as four is to one." - Bob Knight
Splits
If you look at Rose’s in-season improvements from last season, it’s even more encouraging. Looking at his month-by-month split, you can see that November was by far his worst month (and don’t forget, he was hobbled by an ankle injury). His numbers dipped a bit in March, but that’s because he got hammered by Howard and left that game early, and probably struggled a bit on returning.
much better team and teammates will result
In mucho improvement for DRose
He will be a top 5 guard this season
"Michael Redd's owed 18.3 million next year. He can either opt out like an idiot or opt in like a douche bag." - NittanyCub
Rose will be fine.
Aside from the fact that D Rose was hurt a lot last season, he wasn’t the primary scoring option until Salmons was traded. Now we don’t know if he’s the 1st or 2nd option this coming season, but we do know he’ll be the one with the ball in his hands and will decide who will take the shot. He’ll be fine, because Rose wants to win, and doesn’t care who scores. He understands that he has the components around to make his game better, and to win games. Plus, Rose is the face of the Bulls, so don’t expect his scoring to drop off too much, for the offense flows through him.

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