Should Chicago adopt the Flex Offense?
Kevin Arnovitz is the best in depth basketball writer in the business and in this article he applies his talents to the Bulls. He is arguing that the Bulls should adopt the Flex Offense based on the unique mix of talents of the top six players.
over 1 year ago
JockstrapNoah
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As opposed to last year....
the Bulls should adopt AN offense. Any offense. Doesn’t matter.
sportsandmusik
http://www.sportsandmusik.com
by GarForman on Jul 28, 2010 6:28 PM CDT reply actions 8 recs
I dunno what a flex offense is
but is that like Kama Sutra ish?
All I want in life is for UC fans to chant: Deeeeeloooonte during Heat games
Flex is just one of those words isn't it...
kind of like ‘moist’, perfectly normal words, but when we hear them they make you cringe a little, no matter what the context.
lol
'The Decision' : 12% of people don't like me.
I like reading Arnovitz
because he can actually explain it pretty well. For me, basketball is hard to watch and say that this team is doing this that team is doing that, its harder to recognize than in football, where they hold a formation for 10 seconds before the play is run, and depending on the formation you can get a sense for what they are trying to do.
Anyways, I think thibs has talked about pick and roll and drive and kick, which sounds different from Flex so I’m not sure if this is what Thibs is thinking.
by JockstrapNoah on Jul 28, 2010 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah, he broke it doooown
good read..very “moisty”..lol
All I want in life is for UC fans to chant: Deeeeeloooonte during Heat games
watch this video
my high school team ran the flex so i know it relatively well. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCcojDN9P3o shows the basic movements in the flex. of course, there are also various counters built in depending on what the defense does, and plays that can be executed out of this basic structure. if the flex is run properly, it guarantees an open shot.
the catch is that everyone needs to handle the ball, everyone needs to pass, and everyone needs to shoot.
After watching that
it seems like having big men that can spread the floor would make the flex run much more efficiently. As much as boozer, taj, and even noah (when he’s wide open) can hit 10 or 15 footers, there’s a big difference between that and mehmet okur, who can truly space things with his three point shooting. When you have Noah at one of the outside positions, and Rose right under the basket, what’s to keep Noah’s defender from collapsing on Rose in the key?
And what about our Turk? Asik shot 50% at the free throw line in Euroleague. No defender is going to respect him outside of the paint. Brad Miller, obviously, would have been great in this offense.
I’m not saying it wouldn’t work, or that it’s not an interesting and very well written article (because it is), but I’m slightly skeptical. Our bigs can handle the ball well and pass well, but I’m not so sure about their shooting range…
Actually,
Big men that can pass increase the efficiency. It’s the motion of the offense that gets guys open, so guys that can anticipate and make passes, sometimes before players are in position really make the offense run smoothly.
The thing that would keep the defender from sagging off is the potential to give the big guy a 2-way choice to pass to an open player w/o pressure. So you may take away that lay-up by sagging off, but you’re allowing an easy pass to another shooter coming off a screen.
wow that video just blew my mind
thx bruh
All I want in life is for UC fans to chant: Deeeeeloooonte during Heat games
So we trade in Thrust for Flex?....
BlogaBull: Now with more Flex ?
'The Decision' : 12% of people don't like me.
by mrdope on Jul 28, 2010 6:46 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
BlogaBull: Now with more flex appeal?
/ducks
"What do you think, I just dunked my whole career?" Jordan asked Henderson after making a 3.
"You’ve got to miss eventually," Henderson told him.
"That’s what Cleveland said," replied Jordan
by MRubio52 on Jul 28, 2010 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
BaB: Don't get Flex'd on
All I want in life is for UC fans to chant: Deeeeeloooonte during Heat games
Good fanshot - interesting discussion - and the article was very well-explained..
I think the author my be idealizing and oversimplifying what’s possible. Rose is an extremely gifted and instinctual point guard, but williams is the QB of that system who has a freakish basketball IQ and has been learning Sloan’s system for years. Further, those theoretically teaching Rose to run the flex would basically be creating a knockoff without the most critical pieces in Williams and Sloan. As he says, it’s not easy to do unless you have the right people, and Rose’s talents may be better used in another way. If they are going to revamp their whole offense and learn to do things a new way on that side of the court, do they start with quantum physics?
by DisCUBbobulated on Jul 28, 2010 7:09 PM CDT reply actions
Its probably not that hard
for pro basketball players that all have high bb-iq to grasp. Also, admittedly I’m a Rose lover, but I’m not going to give Williams an advantage over Rose in terms of being able to execute this offense. Rose is quicker and and more willing to move the ball.
Being in a successful system is going to be a crit factor for Rose achieving ‘the leap’.
by JockstrapNoah on Jul 28, 2010 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions
until now
rose has had to rely on his innate court vision and playmaking ability without any help from an identifiable offensive scheme. and he did awesome. if his teammates hadn’t missed so many gimme jumpers and layups (layups, fer crissakes) last year he would have averaged 21 and 10. so as he enters this season playing in (what i assume will be) a coherent offense, with a top basketball mind guiding him at every step, i’d tend to give him the benefit of the doubt.
whether the bulls decide to emulate utah’s flex offense or not, by the middle of this season i expect him to be right there in the conversation with dwill, cp3, rondo, or whomever. breakout time, baby.
i'm hot for teacher
The flex offense is run by high schools and junior high schools across the country.
I doubt it’s that hard for pros to learn.
didnt teh skiles bulls run a flex offense
I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!
i think he just flex'd on players
as in this:
All I want in life is for UC fans to chant: Deeeeeloooonte during Heat games
by Belize on Jul 28, 2010 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
You know who else sounds like he'd be great for this offense?
Rudy Fernandez.
Great, now I’m going to be pissed when they don’t run it.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
by tyger1147 on Jul 28, 2010 8:33 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
BTW...
…the Jazz haven’t #1 in offense recently for nothing.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Maybe this is me just playing Devil's Advocate...
But why run an offense that doesn’t maximize your best player?
Sure Rose can adjust, but he lost my vote for this idea when he said “was Rose born for the flex? No…”
except that wasn't the quote
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
And what if it gets 98% of Rose but maximizes everyone else?
Isn’t that better than 100% of Rose and 80% of everyone else?
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Certainly maximizing Brewer will be important
hanging out by the 3pt line isn’t going to work great for him.
by JockstrapNoah on Jul 28, 2010 8:41 PM CDT up reply actions
He didn't do that in Utah and Arvonitz seems to think that maximized his talents.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
The quote is
Does asking him to orchestrate the flex offense at the point compromise his strengths? Not at all.
by JockstrapNoah on Jul 28, 2010 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions
roses style of play
benefits from others playing well.
Its impossible for any team to run plays or run an offense 100% of the time. Plays break down all the time, fast breaks occur, teams play great defense and take away whatever offense you are trying to run. If the flex offense gets guys like luol deng, brewer, and boozer, hot and gets the defense paying attention to them, then rose can utilize that to get assists or simply destroy the defense.
I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!
by piccolomair on Jul 28, 2010 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions
If you're going to read inane babble from an old man, might as well be Buzz Bissinger. That dude is crazy.
DANIEL HUDSON SUCKS. HOWS THAT GUN BAN WORKING FOR YOU MAYOR DALLY
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 29, 2010 2:43 AM CDT up reply actions
i agree with this arnovitz
The name of the team is ARIZONA DIAMONDBACKS - "I tried to convince them that what they were doing was an aberration, an imbecility, a stupidity without name"
It certainly seem like it'd be a pretty good system to run
But it’s not like it’s the only good option. Anything that emphasizes the PnR would be a pretty good fit if you ask me.
Pat Riley is the devil.
as long as it doesnt come with their defense
someone teach me how to get Sam Smith's job when he retires
Sounds like the player skills needed for the Flex are similar to those needed for the Triangle.
That sounds interesting.
Kind of, but they're not carbon copies
For starters, the flex is less complicated. Also, to run the Triangle, you need multiple players capable of scoring in the post, whereas that’s not the case in the flex. The flex is more about running plays designed to get guys open looks, as opposed to the Triangle, which is more about maintaining spacing to allow your stars to go 1-on-1.
Pat Riley is the devil.
Also, for the Triangle
The PG basically does nothing. He just throws it into the post, then gets the hell out of the way and sets up shop for the corner 3. At least, that’s my understanding. Correct me if i’m wrong
by ChiTownSportsMaster on Jul 29, 2010 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions
The PG
is the designated shooter, I always tought the triangle could really maximize BG talents.
by QUINTEN DALEY on Jul 29, 2010 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions
....Ben Gordon's talents?
You must have me confused with someone else, I have never been to Chicago.
[whispers] I sexually assaulted Scottie Pippen in 1997.
I dont think there is a magic offense.
I think this line
Jerry Sloan has been running the flex for a quarter of a century
is the real point. Thibs should run what he knows best.
Ball 4!
by californiachicagoan on Jul 29, 2010 11:01 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
disagree
the coach should run what suits the players best, and what they know best (-jazzers).
agree that there is no magic (unstoppable) offense.
The name of the team is ARIZONA DIAMONDBACKS - "I tried to convince them that what they were doing was an aberration, an imbecility, a stupidity without name"
Problem is
If they dont have any experts on the staff to teach it, the players can only progress so far
Ball 4!
by californiachicagoan on Jul 29, 2010 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions
The flex and the triangle are pretty unstoppable when run properly.
Any offense that keeps the floor spaced and the ball moving until an open shot is found is pretty unstoppable really.
The Bulls will win 50 games this year and (hopefully) the Central Division for a top 3 seed.
by fundamentallysound on Jul 29, 2010 8:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah
Open shots tend to be pretty useful on offense lol
by ChiTownSportsMaster on Jul 30, 2010 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions
Just read the title guys. This is Utah in the East which would be fine by me considering how efficient/successful the Jazz O is year in and year out.
----2010 MOTHERFUCKIN' STANLEY CUP CHAMPS, CHICAGO BLACKHAWKS!----
Rose-Boozer-Noah
Tommy T is a defensive wiz!
We have a HORSE named Horsa.
Just lock up Seabs now!
*would be Utah in the East
----2010 MOTHERFUCKIN' STANLEY CUP CHAMPS, CHICAGO BLACKHAWKS!----
Rose-Boozer-Noah
Tommy T is a defensive wiz!
We have a HORSE named Horsa.
Just lock up Seabs now!
He made a good point
The Bulls have 3 new players who have mastered the Flex. The Flex is easy to run and Rose would be a monster running it. Think how MJ was in the Triangle. I think TT should give the Flex a try.
i think itd be cool if rose learned to post up from billups and we could tailor a triangle around him
that would be cool
someone teach me how to get Sam Smith's job when he retires
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