SBNation.com: Ranking the NBA GMs
Meant to inspire discussion and anger? Ultimately, that's what happens with a subjective ranking system like this. Mike Prada knows what he's doing though, so check it out.
over 1 year ago
your friendly BullsBlogger
79 comments
1 recs |
Comments
The Bulls have a weird front office dynamic, with John Paxson still in the picture and owner Jerry Reinsdorf meddling as he sees fit, so it’s tough to tell where one person’s influence ends and another’s begins.
!!!!!!!
All I want in life is for UC fans to chant: Deeeeeloooonte during Heat games
GAR PAXDORF!!!
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
by tyger1147 on Jul 22, 2010 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Wasn't that just written by
yfbb.?
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
that's the spirit!
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 22, 2010 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I mean really
I suppose he makes some decent arguments but overall it feels pretty futile
Bulls should have been higher IMO
The front office dynamic sucks…should have gotten rid of Kirk sooner, signed a less crappy contract for Luol ya I get it, but cmon, one step above the Hornets? Behind the front office that let LBJ walk all over them and then leave them in a pretty big mess? Not a chance in hell!
I hope so
But we have languished here as GAR/PAX or PAX/GAR didn’t pull off a trade.
On paper, I love the Boozer signing, and said so at times last year when I hoped we’d get him. But he could break down (See YaoPau’s very good fanpost a week ago or so—I am not finding it, but I think it’s on the front page still).
We have to do something to get further. I think Ferry at least did a good job fixing the horrible first summer issue he had and was willing to try. The collusion kept ‘em from keeping James, not really anything he did, and well if Pax/Gar can finally win 50 games in their 8th year this year then maybe oh maybe we can be in the talks for better GM. But Gar/Pax overvalued their assets for too long (and why we let Kirk stay to deplete him further as a Rose backup) was ridiciulous. Imagine if we had traded Kirk earlier and had BG on that $9M/yr deal….brought Boozer in, and well drafted as well as we’ve done for mid round picks.
But oh well. We have to prove it to move up further. I think we’re proving it on paper so far though.
2010-2011: I put the Scottie-Barkley Rockets feud curse on the Wade-James-Bosh trio.....
That would have been all good...
Except for the fact that BG turned down not one, but two at or above that $9M…
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
by Dionysus2.0 on Jul 22, 2010 8:27 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Yeah!
Because an overpaid Kirk Hinrich is way worse than a drastically overpaid BG. The guy has one skill and used it very well in one series and half the people here wanna go all Jerome James for him.
by MrPants on Jul 23, 2010 12:59 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I really don't see how paying
BG Hinrich money (Kirk got a 5 yr $45M deal, Ben was offered a 6 yr $54M deal is different first of all (barring the 1 add’l year). I always was a Kirk supporter/fan, but there’s no question Ben Gordon is and ws the better player of those 2……
We’ll see if Ben’s now surgically repaired ankle heals, what’s in store this year.
And no, Ben Gordon didn’t use his one skill very well in one series, he used it in his Bulls career. Actually if you remember Ben hurt his hamstring in “that one series” and ultimately had a more subpar series for the consistent shooter he had been. He started off that series very well, but by games 5-7 he wasn’t the same, hobbling on one leg.
Did you forget all those 4th qtr comeback games? I mean as a rookie BG either lead the league or was #2 by year end (he was leading the league I can’t remember how it ended, but he may have lead the league) in 4th qtr scoring?
Ben might just have 1 skill, scoring. But he’s electric at that one skill…..and that’s not exactly the easiest skill to teach. He performed better when the pressure was on than when it was off.
2010-2011: I put the Scottie-Barkley Rockets feud curse on the Wade-James-Bosh trio.....
Then he backtracked though for the $9M/yr
and we said no.
2010-2011: I put the Scottie-Barkley Rockets feud curse on the Wade-James-Bosh trio.....
Pat Riley
deserves credit for having a long term plan which included 4 years of first round exits ? While the Spurs have been a contender for 14 straight years, and have 4 chips to show for it. Right.
The Heat.
I'd assume the Spurs would be more highly ranked a couple years ago
I don’t think it’s ultimately about total achievement.
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 22, 2010 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah I don't get
the Richard Jefferson thing.
by JockstrapNoah on Jul 22, 2010 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Ahh you are the guy that wrote the article...
didn’t see that till now. Yeah, Riley put together what will be a great competitor next year, and if you win the LeBron sweepstakes, you win the LeBron sweepstakes (although until he wins a championship…). I’m just saying that I think contending for 10 years+ is pretty incredible. With Buford it might all come to an end pretty soon though with Duncan retiring.
by JockstrapNoah on Jul 22, 2010 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed
How is he any different than those other GMs that are knocked down a peg for having a superstar on their team? Wade is the only reason that team even sniffed the playoffs. They have not won a thing with this new team yet. They call his plan a long term, creative plan. If LBJ comes to the Bulls and Bosh goes to New Jersey, where does he rate then? Yes, he should get points for getting 3 top players on his team, but until they win something together, how is this worth anything?
'cause it's trying to project a bit as well?
your comments aren’t worth anything, EVER THINK OF THAT?!? ::sticks screwdriver through monitor::
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 22, 2010 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions
It's also not really a results-based analysis
You have to admit that clearing enough space for three max contracts is pretty amazing, whether it works or not.
of course it is
Riley may not just be the greatest GM right now, but the best human being in any vocation as far as I’m concerned.
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 22, 2010 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Pretty easy to get what you want when you're the spawn of Satan.
DANIEL HUDSON SUCKS. HOWS THAT GUN BAN WORKING FOR YOU MAYOR DALLY
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 22, 2010 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
lessons learned from 'The Devil's Advocate'
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 22, 2010 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well, it wasn't three max contracts, but still...
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
They could have traded Chalmers...
…and renounced Joel Anthony….not that it was necessary…
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
Of course
But the analysis is not consistent. That’s my point. Mitch Kupchak get’s penalized for having Kobe and Phil, but he survived the Kobe demands a trade fiasco, stole Pau Gasol for nothing and still has his own super team in place. He has set the Lakers up to continue to be the top team in the Western conference and has won several championships. He let Ariza go for Artest (a key piece in their championship run). His team might be in a better position than the Heat next year (and I believe they are) and yet he is ranked 13th? That analysis just doesn’t make any sense to me.
I still enjoyed the article because it’s fun information to have all in one place. I was simply disagreeing with the analysis.
Artest
Was also pretty crappy in the playoffs….he DID have a great game 7, but he was shit games 2-6, and wasn’t very good in the other series as well.
I mean Durant shot for shit, but hey it was also his first playoffs….though Artest did do well on him, Artest’s O was pretty piss poor there too.
I don’t know if in that system if Ariza wouldn’t have been much worse.
2010-2011: I put the Scottie-Barkley Rockets feud curse on the Wade-James-Bosh trio.....
His defense was good all finals
as he shut Pierce down. He made shots when the Lakers most needed it. Artest was brought in to fulfill a role and he dis so admirably.
So…gotta say it: this sort of vindicates the Ben Gordon thing.
-by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 24, 2010 1:20 PM PDT
and he may shut LeBron down next year for all we know
and i thought a part of Kupchak doing that switch was the possibility they’d face LBJ in the finals (when he was a Cav obviously)
For all we know
He may also get lit up by Lebron because he doesn’t have hte lateral quickness to stay in fron of Lebron at all…..
And well Pierce is getting to the point of being severely overrated these days. He was great, now he’s fallen from there…he’s good but isn’t what he was 2 years ago.
2010-2011: I put the Scottie-Barkley Rockets feud curse on the Wade-James-Bosh trio.....
His offense was awful
And Pierce got his game going games 3-6. I think you are using some revisionist history. Pierce overall totally outplayed Artest. Artest had a good for him game 1, and awful games 2-6, and an all out great game 7.
Ultimately he was really good game 7 when it mattered, but the rest of the series was pretty damn crappy.
2010-2011: I put the Scottie-Barkley Rockets feud curse on the Wade-James-Bosh trio.....
i thought the lakers would be higher
they made good, smart moves over the years
All I want in life is for UC fans to chant: Deeeeeloooonte during Heat games
Regardless of the last 4 yrs
Riley wowed the league by getting the top 2 players (Lebron and Wade) and getting a 3rd banana.
Nobody would have thought that Lebron’s ego would go to be second fiddle to Wade.
Look at the SI cover, Wade’s in the middle. Wade, humble winner Wade is the face of the NBA. Lebron’s his B.
Riley was shrewd, and a genius for pulling this off, and getting at least Miller in tow.
They have a good chance to be great this year, but an even better chance with midlevels next year to be even better barring a lockout.
Wade-Lebron is like MJ-Bird…MJ-Magic or Magic-Kobe on 1 team at the same time…..
I know Bosh is the follower, but getting Lebron to join was something…..and easily makes him #1 right now.
2010-2011: I put the Scottie-Barkley Rockets feud curse on the Wade-James-Bosh trio.....
"about to"?
damn, so close.
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 22, 2010 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd have GarPaxDorf at 15.
I’d certainly have it/them ahead of Grunfeld and Otis Smith. I don’t know about Ferry; he got such a raw deal with the horrible meddling owner who forced him to coddle LeBron so much. It’s hard to really rate that front office. GarPaxDorf is almost definitely not as awesome as 1-14, though, all of whom are really very solid.
Hm...I think that
Right now, Presti, Morey, and O’Connor could be put in any order from 2-5. I think Presti has actually done a better job than Morey, but maybe Morey/O’connor were given bonus points due to long-term success
by ChiTownSportsMaster on Jul 22, 2010 4:12 PM CDT reply actions
A great little article there yfbb, I rec'd it
I think I agree with the rankings for the most part, with a huge exception on Donnie Nelson (who I think has been darn near terrible)….
They have an owner who is more than willing to spend whatever he can and do whatever he can for a winner and pays for all the amenities and will be the face of the franchise to answer any issues or criticize the officials etc.
He inherited Dirk Nowitzki…….
I know Cuban ultimately let Nash go, not him. But Nelsons’ the guy who overpaid for let’s see:
Shawn Marion
Josh Howard (had injury issues and even worse didn’t suddenly become a locker room issue overnight)
Wasted the 5th pick essentially (Devin Harris) by trading him for Kidd for equal ability—this isn’t and wasn’t younger Kidd. Overpaid to extend Kidd.
Signed LaFrenz, even worse signed Dampier (that may have been early Cuban too), but they finally got over Dampier—Eric’s the reason they never won, and now they dramatically overpaid for Brendan Haywood, I mean dramatically overpaid for him. he’s decent, but he’s not much better than a mid level guy….and he’ll look worse in years 4/5—the rest of Dirk’s “prime”.
Nelson’s had one of the top 10 players the last 10 years, had a willing to do anything, maverick owner (who owns the mavericks :)), had allt he nice facilities, the big guy that I am sure plenty of players would love to play with (PG’s have to love Dirk, defensive bigs would love him too as they make too much money), the facilities are nice, etc……
I’d put Nelson (No 10 really with all that) towards the bottom, maybe mid 20’s (23-25) without going fully through it.
I think Gar/Pax were in the low 20’s but improved a bit on paper it seems with a to me very successful summer this year even without the colluded big 3, we seem to have done great. But I think 19 is about right if this pans out it could move to 16-17, unless this is a dynasty which I don’t think so. Bulls have had a lot of years and a lot of mistakes.
I think early on John Hammond (Bucks) has been amazing. It’s early, but he’s making a team that nobody cared about for years and one in a city that nobody with the kind of money these teams have would want to come to, be very good. He might be in the Skiles heydey, but he’s getting undervalued guys for somewhat decent, fit the puzzle piece dollars, and doing what the young Dumars did (except without a bum #2 pick in the draft class of the last 20 yrs on the resume). We’ll see it’s early and it’s good that even with it being so early he’s already near top 10….but him behind Donnie Nelson? Really?
I do think I need a bit more See it to believe it on Morey, he wasn’t exactly given a nothing to make it a something, he did have 2 superstars and found ways to make them .500 compettitive when they both went dowdn to injury. But the Rockets were not able to make the big splashy trade they’ve wanted to and needed to do so yet, and it’s not like he took a team that seemed poised to be the worst in the division (int he lowly East no less—Bucks) and make them a top 5 team with some shrewd trades, a now seemingly low offer on Bogut, and some smaller, fit the bill pieces of relatively low annual salary players (I don’t smell a Posey on that team, and while _rew kind of sucks, I think Drew next to Bogut with a good passing PG (Value pick Jennings) and the defenders/system guys Skiles employs is good value for 5th starter/guy off the bench.
It was great to see the under discussed O’Connor up there with the limited flexibility he’s ever had because his teams always are in the playoffs…..he’s made them at least 2nd round fodder forever it seems. I know he overpaid for Kirilenko, but that’s due to both an injury (which happens) and moreso because Kirilenko’s game doesn’t fit as well with DWill and with the valued PF’s they’ve always plucked.
Oh well, fun article.
2010-2011: I put the Scottie-Barkley Rockets feud curse on the Wade-James-Bosh trio.....
The best GM in the NBA is Dwyane Wade.
"Smith stripped. Smith stopped! Smith stopped again by Pippen!"
by ColonelFatheart on Jul 22, 2010 4:20 PM CDT reply actions 5 recs
And
the best spy in the NBA.
"In order to have a winner, the team must have a feeling of unity; every player must put the team first- ahead of personal glory" - motivational sign at Halas Hall.
by propheteer on Jul 22, 2010 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
and Jordan's bitch
Jordan: Sell my shyt!
Wade: Otay
All I want in life is for UC fans to chant: Deeeeeloooonte during Heat games
everyone is jordan's bitch
just ask his shadow
someone teach me how to get Sam Smith's job when he retires
by sin on Jul 22, 2010 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Where would the Bulls' GM amalgam rank if they hadn't lucked into Rose?
And instead had to go with Brandon Rush or Jarryd Bayless Or Jason Thompson or Brooke Lopez, which would have been the luckiest thing ever.
I’d be happy with a front court of Lopez, Noah and Deng (SIZE!!!), but I have no idea what the rest of the team would look like.
Bulls got uber-lucky. That’s why they are right where they should be.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Oklahoma City got lucky that portland chose Oden
Miami got lucky that it was such a strong draft that Wade fell to 7th, and that Detroit burned a pick on Darko. If you’re going to start penalizing teams because they were in a good position to draft a superstar, you pretty much have to penalize all the teams.
So…gotta say it: this sort of vindicates the Ben Gordon thing.
-by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 24, 2010 1:20 PM PDT
by runningman on Jul 22, 2010 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
Agreed...so much of it is luck
Though Wade was the 5th pick…Hinrich was 7th
by dbrown25 on Jul 22, 2010 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
You cannot win a championship without a good deal of luck
of one sort or another.
by JonathanR on Jul 22, 2010 11:50 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Umm... Quote me where I penalized the, please.
I said they’re right where I think they should be. Der?
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
You know where I would penalize the Bulls...
…when they had the #2 overall pick and traded down for Tyrus Thomas with Brandon Roy (who would have been ideal next to BG and Kirk) still on the board.
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
really?
I was a Tyrus Thomas guy from the start. I wouldn’t take those years back at all as retarded as it sounds. I just loved his potential. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZqlC9ZI-ow
by SoulEater7 on Jul 22, 2010 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
i remember with the 9th pick werent we looking at love/lopez?
i still cant believe we lucked into rose
and i still cant believe lopez dropped to 11th
although you gotta wonder.
with the way okc gambled on westbrook. would they be better now with lopez instead of westbrook?
someone teach me how to get Sam Smith's job when he retires
Success is about what you do when you do get lucky.
The Bulls have a team now that Derrick Rose can be very happy with. Contrast that with, say, Lebron in Cleveland or Chris Paul in New Orleans. I know things still have to play out, but I think I can honestly say I’d be shocked if Rose demanded a trade in 3 years. And, for that reason, I think GarPaxDorf needs to move into the top 10 right now, since sports is usually about the now anyways.
by rinconen on Jul 22, 2010 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe I'm just in a bad mood
Becuase I think the “KAAAAHHHHHNNNN!!” jokes are getting old too
more tanduuuurrrrrrr jokes maybe?
don't let the bed bugs bite
by Rex Grossman on Jul 22, 2010 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Winner winner chicken dinner!
The Deng contract wasprobablya mistake, because he wasn’t worth $72 million even when it was signed.
fair enough, but...
he then goes on to imply that they should have given Gordon a contract of roughly the same size (which is apparently what it would have taken to lock up Ben).
by thelivingant on Jul 22, 2010 9:19 PM CDT up reply actions
i would be much happier with gordon getting that money than deng
gordon won games for us. no injury issues etc
if we were going to shell out that kind of money i wouldve signed gordon first before luol
someone teach me how to get Sam Smith's job when he retires
Thats the thing.. that bugs me.. the Bulls overvaluing Deng
and undervaluing Gordon. I would be fine with BG and 72 million because he can hit HUGE threes from Mars and grab his nuts. Like.. I wanna see that. He also would have been easier to trade and I bet teams would take on that contract for Ben Gordon. They can’t find any takers for Deng now and I knew this day was coming. Thats what pisses me off that everyday schmucks could tell you that and the Bulls are stuck with this guy now until 2014. (ok maybe not that long)
yes. thats the part i forgot to mention
i guarantee theres a retarded team out there that would take on gordon’s 20 ppg (which i think he would still be avging here)
someone teach me how to get Sam Smith's job when he retires
BG at $12mill
is still overpaid, he gone, kirk gone = Bulls future success
by QUINTEN DALEY on Jul 23, 2010 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Remember Deng in the 06 playoffs?
He shredded that (admittedly weak) Miami team.
He has won games for us.
I think overpaying Deng and dumping Gordon makes it a wash.
Every team makes mistakes. It’s all about making more good decisions than bad decisions. And, this off season the Bulls made 5 good decisions (Hinrich trade + 4 solid signings).
by rinconen on Jul 22, 2010 9:47 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

















