While Bulls wait on Redick, others being snagged
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 15, 2010 10:42 AM CDT
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PrintThe Magic have until tomorrow to match the offer for Redick, and a report this morning indicated they will (though I'm not sure how much we can believe it), and Sam Smith says he's 'hearing' the same.
KC casually threw in that the difference between a Redick match and not is $5m or $12m in remaining cap space, figures that are a lower than 'our' projections, but we were making assumptions on how fully-backloaded some other signings were. While it made the most sense to have the lowest cap figure possible this offseason, it's also a negotiable component of these signings. And it's looking clear that after the Boozer signing, the Bulls didn't value as much of the remaining cap space as one would think, content on filling out the roster around this 'core' instead of possibly adding another core piece.
A lower cap space estimate hurts a bit, because it shifts the possibility of signing another higher-caliber SG to being likely only if Redick isn't signed, and not regardless. It's looking like the obvious fall-back option would be Ronnie Brewer, who has one less suitor in the Jazz after they signed Raja Bell. Hopefully he's waiting out this decision like we are, with a starting spot pretty much guaranteed if Redick is matched.
Meanwhile, other guards are being picked up (another good choice, Delonte West, may be off the table for different reasons), and though none were exactly suitable starting SGs, it's not like the Bulls need just one guard.
And the latest has Brad Miller mulling an offer from the Rockets. I'm not saying that the Bulls made some awful error in having their cap space tied up in Redick, they made it quite uncomfortable for the Magic to match and they might not. But if it's true that they didn't back-load other deals which costed them enough cap space to sign contingencies while they waited, they're stuck hunting for real bargains next week.
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Wouldn't we want Redick to start over Brewer, if Orlando doesn't match
and if we get Brewer
"a starting spot pretty much guaranteed if Redick is matched."
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 15, 2010 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions
I admit it wasn't the clearest way to put it
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 15, 2010 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions
Ewww, Brewer starting isn't too fun to think about.
Reddick was hard enough to love, but his potential and complimentary shooting was enough to subjectify me.
Brewer was the starter for Utah for 3 years
and they were a really good team in the western conference. He’s a good player, and I’d rather start Brewer (assuming he’s healthy) than Redick if we have both.
Not if Deng steps back a foot
and Rose’s 3pt shot is as consistent in games as it is in the gym. Plus, Boozer can hit the 17 footer.
Yes, they are assumptions
but reasonable ones, because
1) Rose isn’t one to brag, his 3pt shooting improved even during the season, so there’s no reason not to assume he’s going to be improved in that regard
2) Deng, when he did step back a foot, shot pretty darned well from 3. So now that we’ve got a coach who’s already said he wants Deng to shoot 3’s, we can assume he’ll be shooting more 3’s and at least be competent
Brewer is really good at D. He’s got size, quickness, can execute really well on the break, finishes well, etc. Not to say he’s overall better than Redick, but as I mentioned personally – when the players are roughly equal overall – defense > offense.
I want both of em
I’m not arguing against Brewer.
I’d be happy with either, especially both.
But JJ would be a better starter because of his shooting ability and his improved defense
Disagree.
I think you start Redick so we have at least one shooter in our starting unit. Brewer will still get heavy minutes, maybe 25-30 a game, but I feel he would suit best with a second unit along side korver, or in situations where we need lock down d, where he would obviously play with our starters over redick.
by Scottie's Nose on Jul 15, 2010 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I can see that
It’s just my personal preference, that when the players are about equal (which I think Brewer and Redick are), defense > offense. But I certainly would be happy no matter who starts if they get both players.
Honestly
I don’t see them getting both anyway. It’s probably Redick or Brewer. Off topic – I really wish that other Brewer was available. Corie is a beast.
by Scottie's Nose on Jul 15, 2010 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions
sure, if we had both
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 15, 2010 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions
I have a feeliing JJ Reddick will be a Bull next season
Let’s be realistic. Magic will not win the East. With Bulls on the upswing and Heat replacing the Cavs Magic may just want to cut down their salaries to a managable level. Paying 14Mil essentially for JJ in a team that will not be winning the East and going to the finals is a bit much. I hope their GM and owner are business people.
who cares if you think the Magic will win the East or not?
It only matters if the Magic believe they can come out of the east.
The Magic will not win the East?
They went to the finals just last year. It’s not like they are going anywhere, if I’m the Magic owner who happens to be extremely wealthy, and I don’t give a shit about money, I’m probably going for it every year Howard is there.
by Grinder in Training on Jul 15, 2010 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions
I'd assume
What a billionaire does to get wealthy is often very different than what he does once he’s old and no longer concerned about money.
by Grinder in Training on Jul 15, 2010 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed. It's pretty clear that DeVos is well into his "fuck you money" years, that's for sure.
"Smith stripped. Smith stopped! Smith stopped again by Pippen!"
by ColonelFatheart on Jul 15, 2010 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions
As I repeatedly say...
Dwight Howard is a bargain right at his current price. Shift that $7 million in tax payment to him and all of a sudden Redick and Howard are paid closer to their worth.
Sheesh.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
I don't really agree with this reasoning
The last guy signed is the guy you are paying the luxury tax on. They can have Dwight Howard without paying the luxury tax. They can’t have JJ Redick without paying the luxury tax. Therefore, the expenditure forcing the paying of the luxury tax is JJ Redick. Now, you can go ahead and say because we have Dwight Howard at such a reasonable salary, it is ok that we are paying $14 million for JJ Redick, but I don’t think it really makes sense to add the $7 million to Howard’s salary.
"The last guy signed is the guy you are paying the luxury tax on"
you’re paying the luxury tax on the whole team. So it’s if you think the team is worth that much. They can find ways to shed salary from now until the end of the season (when the tax level is calculated)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 15, 2010 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Bingo
JSB’s reasoning is correct … just basic microeconomics.
by RM on Jul 15, 2010 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Er... no
They can have JJ Redick without paying the luxury tax. I’m sure, for example, if they match Redick, we’d happily trade them a 2nd round pick for Dwight Howard. Then they get Redick and don’t have to pay the tax.
When you have a team production, you can’t separate out marginal cost (or productivity) easily.
BullsTwo > Back up and running!
Fine but they wouldn't trade a 2nd round pick Dwight Howard
If for some reason, the Magic were to decide to strip down their team and cut salary for as much as possible, Dwight Howard would obviously be the last guy they would move. So saying something like this makes no sense. They’re not paying the tax on Dwight Howard. And considering how far over the tax treshold they are, they’re not realistically going to be able to slash enough salary where they could fit in Redick and be under the tax treshold, meaning you are paying a $14 million marginal cost to add Redick.
Brad Miller is god.
Dwight Howard would be the first guy they move if they strip down their team
That’s what happens pretty much every time a contender rebuilds. Superstars generally aren’t going to tolerate sitting around and wasting a few years of their relatively short careers. A guy like Howard would simply demand a trade.
That should tell folks paying attention that if you want to assign the tax to a player, it’s really part of the “cost of doing business” of having a player like Howard. If you get a great player, part of the cost of keeping him is assembling a great team around him.
The same is obviously not true of JJ Redick. It’s not just the fact that you have Howard at a reasonable salary, it’s the fact that you have him at all. In law, you’ve got the concept of proximate cause, and it’s much more obviously applicable in this situation than marginal cost. But for the presence of Howard, you would never consider paying the tax on Redick.
If you want to call the marginal cost of adding Redick $14M, that’s fine, but the proper decision is to add him if the marginal revenue product is greater than the marginal cost. The marginal revenue product in inextricably linked to the rest of the team, most obviously Howard. A shooter like Redick is worth less if he’s not playing off an inside presence like Howard. An inside presence like Howard is worth less if he’s not playing with a shooter. So trying to separate out the decision on Redick from the rest of the team, especially its more obviously important player, is just manifestly silly.
BullsTwo > Back up and running!
All that may be true, but the point is that he'd be the last guy they'd want to move
I’m not talking about a complete rebuilding effort. I’m saying that if they wanted to pare down salary to get under the luxury tax treshold, Dwight Howard would be the last guy they’d want to move. When a business decides to cut costs, they eliminate the things that provide the least marginal utility first and the things that provide the most marginal utility last. The player on the Magic that provides the most marginal utility is Dwight Howard. Now obviously, because of how the NBA works, you can’t just instantly dump your least valuable players because teams tend to not want your least valuable players. But that has no bearing on the subject of the conversation that we’re having, which is the cost to the Magic of matching JJ Redick’s offer sheet.
Brad Miller is god.
the person to blame, as always
is Chris Duhon
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 15, 2010 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Depends on how they planned things
If in May they knew to have the team they want they would have to pay a certain amount over the cap, and just happen to be signing Redick last, it’s not fair to put all the luxury tax to Redick, when it was the team as a whole that is costing them 7 million extra. Redick just happened to be signed last.
They knew when building this team that Redick was going to cost them a certain amount, even if it wasn’t 7 million, but 5 million or so, and that the team as a whole would be paying the tax. You’re oversimplifying it when you use marginal costs.
by Grinder in Training on Jul 15, 2010 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm glad you agreed
I was going to fume if you agreed with this, yet kept harping on that ‘extra $30m’ thing for LeBron during that whole thing :-)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 15, 2010 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Well I just don't see how you can look at it as Redick
Getting the 14 million. They can easily move someone else to make it work. And who knows what their plan was going in to the off season. I mean clearly they knew Redick would be getting at least 5 million no matter what, so don’t have you to put at least that portion of the tax to the whole team?
They didn’t think Redick was going to sign for the minimum. If they were concerned about the tax, they’d have set aside 5 million of cap space or made a trade. They are paying for the team as a whole as you said, it just seems like a marginal cost because Redick was signed last.
That’s not how they should look at it though because they knew he was a part of the team from the start and that it would mean the team was going over the tax.
by Grinder in Training on Jul 15, 2010 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions
But they won't be able to move enough players where they can fit Redick in under the tax treshold
I agree that it’s not completely the $14 million isn’t completely a marginal cost towards Redick because of the reasons you stated, but most of it is. You can’t just take the tax dollars and spread it out amongst the entire team because if they were to start slashing salary, there are certain guys who would be the last to go (core players like Dwight Howard and Jameer Nelson and bargains like Daniel Orton and Ryan Anderson). In other words, you’re talking diminishing marginal utility.
Brad Miller is god.
So why aren't those players counted against the cap?
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Not sure I understand your question
But what I’m saying is that if the Magic were going to start slashing salary, those guys would be the last guys to go. The decision to pay the luxury tax is being made irrespective of those guys’ contracts.
Brad Miller is god.
I don't agree with that.
If Howard were making what he was worth, $30 million or more, there’s no way they’d even consider Redick.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
I don't disagree with that
But the fact is, he doesn’t, which is why the Magic wouldn’t consider moving him to slash their tax bill. They would consider not resigning Redick (which they are).
Brad Miller is god.
Yes they can
They knew Redick would cost at least 5 million when they put this team together. The fact he’s at 7 million, if you really want to put that 2 million solely to him, fine, but it’s ridiculous to put the tax to him, they knew the team was going to cost what it does now plus 5 million.
by Grinder in Training on Jul 16, 2010 8:11 AM CDT up reply actions
Meh.
And if they had extended Redick last year at the exact same salary, they’d be paying the tax on Quentin Richardson even though they have the exact same team with the exact same salaries and years.
As Matt said, they pay the tax on the whole team, not one individual player. Let’s say the Bulls get another big, long salary and extend Noah at $12 million per year. In 2012, let’s say they’re right up against the tax with Deng, Boozer, Noah and Free Agent X. Are then going to say that it would be like paying Derrick Rose $30 million to keep him around, or are you going to suggest they get rid of Deng’s or Boozer’s contract or that Noah is overpaid?
The correct way to look at it (I was only offering a simple alternative), is to calculate probable wins of the team and cost per win based on a free agent market or whatever it’s called. And then figure out the marginal value of adding a few wins.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Eh, it's semantics really
I can see your and YFBB’s point about you are assessing the entire team and deciding if it is worth paying the salary + luxury tax for that team. But, at the end of the day, I think they are deciding whether having Redick on the team is worth paying $14 million. The fact that they are contenders and he could be a key piece is a factor and that incorporates Dwight Howard into the mix of the decision.
by JSB on Jul 15, 2010 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yep, agreed
$14M is the marginal cost of adding Redick.
by RM on Jul 15, 2010 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions
now I hope they match
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 15, 2010 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions
haha
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
by tyger1147 on Jul 15, 2010 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Don't laugh. Dwight Howard isn't going to get any better.
"Oh, y ahora ¿quién podrá defenderme?" "¡Yo!"
by chapuforyou on Jul 15, 2010 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Even if that does turn out to be true, he's pretty damned great already.
"Smith stripped. Smith stopped! Smith stopped again by Pippen!"
by ColonelFatheart on Jul 15, 2010 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
That's a bold statement to make about a 24 year old
Well, isn't what LeBron did last night the living embodiment of The Secret, leaving millions on the table and turning himself into a hometown villain, all for the sake of winning?
Neil Paine, basketball-reference.com
by snley on Jul 15, 2010 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
there's a lot of new people now
much harder to pick up sarcasm
by diedaily23 on Jul 15, 2010 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hard to tell if that's a sarcastic comment coming from someone who worships Noce
I’d rather take the safe bet he’s an idiot
Well, isn't what LeBron did last night the living embodiment of The Secret, leaving millions on the table and turning himself into a hometown villain, all for the sake of winning?
Neil Paine, basketball-reference.com
Do you understand irony at all?
"Oh, y ahora ¿quién podrá defenderme?" "¡Yo!"
by chapuforyou on Jul 15, 2010 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
I do and am quite fond of it
I just never paid enough attention to determine if you were serious or not and took it at face value
Well, isn't what LeBron did last night the living embodiment of The Secret, leaving millions on the table and turning himself into a hometown villain, all for the sake of winning?
Neil Paine, basketball-reference.com
I prefer wash and wear to stuff I have to irony
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
I'll tell ya about the Magic It'll free your soul but it's like trying to tell a stranger 'bout rock n roll
by NC Magic Fan on Jul 15, 2010 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Doesn't worship noce in the way you think.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Chapu hasn't made a serious comment in 2 years.
"Boozer's dumb ass jumped. So I dunked on his ass."-Joakim Noah
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 15, 2010 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Cap space tied up?
Even with Redick they can sign both Brewer and Miller. So what’s the problem here? Are they really waiting until tomorrow to decide?
Jeff from Cleveland wrote- I've figured out the moral of the story: Stay in school. Wade: 3 years at Marquette, Bosh: 1 year at Georgia Tech, the kid from Akron: no college. The most educated guy convinced his dumber friends to come play on his team for less money.
not with just $5m left in cap space they can't.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 15, 2010 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions
Sure they can
Could sign Brewer to a three year deal, backloaded, starting at 5 mil and sign Miller using Bird Rights. Although I think Miller would technically have to wait to ink the deal until Brewer and Redick went through, but it could still be done.
no, they can't
can’t use your cap space and then sign Miller with bird rights. If they wanted to keep Miller’s bird rights they’d have to have like a $15m cap hold.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 15, 2010 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions
Oooo that's right...cap holds
Forgot about that shit…nevermind I suck
by DRose01 on Jul 15, 2010 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
But they could sign him to a mid-level exemption, no?
by SouthernCub on Jul 15, 2010 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions
We do if we sign Brewer to $5 million deal as you proposed...
by SouthernCub on Jul 15, 2010 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Really? Hadn't seen that stipulation before...
Not trying to be snarky, but can you provide a reference for this? Everything I see just says “teams that are over the cap can use the mid-level exception.” Happy to be proven wrong (well, not happy, as it’s worse for us).
by SouthernCub on Jul 15, 2010 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions
right, and we were not over the cap when free agency started
they’re called ‘exceptions’ because they apply to teams over the cap. They’re ‘awarded’ at the start of free agency. The Bulls effectively renounced their MLE to get the cap space.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 15, 2010 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions
So Miami renounced their exception too?
And all of their signings are under the cap? If so, that’s impressive.
by SouthernCub on Jul 15, 2010 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes
That’s why the players worked in sign and trade deals…they will start at a slightly lower salary, but their salary can increase by a higher percentage each year.
I was referring to the lesser guys...
not the big three.
Miller, Haslem, Ilgauskas, et al are all apparently signing after the big three, right? So their contracts would also have to all be under the cap.
references....
You can find it.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Yeah, I've read that...
didn’t see the specifics on the “having to waive it as of July 1.” But it’s a REALLY long document, so I apologize if I missed it.
by SouthernCub on Jul 15, 2010 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions
you start out with holds and exceptions...
…to sign players when under the cap, you have to renounce exceptions.
e.g.: to sign Carlos Boozer, they had to renounce the bird rights exceptions to Brad Miller et. al
e.g.: once they get within $5 million of the salary cap, if they want to sign someone for $3 million
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
bah, i quit
your idea doesn’t make sense anyway.
How can they go over the cap to get the exception if they can’t go over the cap without the exception? i.e. they can’t sign brewer to an amount that puts them over the cap. cuz there is a cap. to salary. that limits that. duh?
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
The Raptors did it last summer when the completed the S/T for Turkoglu
They then used the MLE to sign Jarrett Jack
Well, isn't what LeBron did last night the living embodiment of The Secret, leaving millions on the table and turning himself into a hometown villain, all for the sake of winning?
Neil Paine, basketball-reference.com
they didn't sign turkoglu outright
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Heading to a tangent, but you don't make sense here...
The logic I was using was as follows:
1. Sign Brewer with the rest of the cap space to put us right at the cap.
2. Once at the cap, we’d then have the mid-level exception to sign Miller (since signing him would have put us over the cap).
However, it appears my logic is moot since we apparently had to waive the exception to clear more cap space when free agency started. And apparently in doing so, we lose the right to get it back.
Yep
We don’t have the exception. You don’t get it if you were under the cap.
by RM on Jul 15, 2010 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions
That's not entirely true.
A team can choose to not renounce their cap holds and exemptions and remain above the cap due to those value being tacked on to actual salaries.
The sign & trade for Boozer allowed the Bulls to remain above the cap for that very reason.
However, they can pick and choose which and when exceptions are renounced.
So, if they remain $6 mil below the cap, technically, they can keep their MLE while renouncing all other exceptions. The only way they could use the MLE in that scenario is if they were then to perform a trade that brought them over the cap, they could use their MLE.
However, we do know that they were at least under the salary cap in order to sign Korver and Asik outright. However, they don’t have all the space available to ink Redick until his deal becomes official. At that time is when they’d have to ensure that they are far enough under the cap to absorb his salary.
Now, I don’t know which exceptions and cap holds have been renounced. But at this time I can’t say for sure that Bulls have renounced their MLE.
by kingj41 on Jul 15, 2010 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
your suggestion makes exceptions worthless
if you think about it.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q20
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
I'll tell ya about the Magic It'll free your soul but it's like trying to tell a stranger 'bout rock n roll
by NC Magic Fan on Jul 15, 2010 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions
No, you just have to exhaust your cap space without signing another team's FA outright
That’s why it was presumed that Mike Miller was going to be signed via MLE, because the Heat would have been eligible to receive it after S&Ting for both Bosh and LeBron. If they sign Miller outright using the little cap space they have left, then they don’t get the MLE.
Well, isn't what LeBron did last night the living embodiment of The Secret, leaving millions on the table and turning himself into a hometown villain, all for the sake of winning?
Neil Paine, basketball-reference.com
How much do you think Miller gets?
I may have this wrong, but doesn’t the league throw in some $ on older vets’ contracts?
by Stay Chisel on Jul 15, 2010 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions
yes, but it still counts against the cap
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
I hope the contingency plans involve trades
since there is nothing out there that is particularly impressive. There are a couple daft GM’s in the league, hopefully Gar is planning to exploit them.
by NerdVernacular on Jul 15, 2010 11:00 AM CDT reply actions
Do the Wolves have any good shooting guards to spare?
"Smith stripped. Smith stopped! Smith stopped again by Pippen!"
by ColonelFatheart on Jul 15, 2010 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions
Nope
Just point guards. Dozens and dozens of point guards.
by lilzaky on Jul 15, 2010 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
And now
small forwards! Kahn’s new obssession
by ChiTownSportsMaster on Jul 15, 2010 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
according to CanisHoopus, here's there rotation at the 2/3
Martel Webster/Corey Brewer/Lazar Hayward/Wayne Ellington
Wes Johnson/Michael Beasley/Corey Brewer
That’s…well it’s a lot players anyway.
Plus Sessions isn’t the worst option as a trade candidate. If he and Rose play together nobody would be shooting many 3s, but they could do so.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 15, 2010 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd rather have Kurt Thomas than Brad Miller.
2010 Offseason Motto: Get Greedy, Bulls. 1 top FA down (Thibs), 1 (or 2) to go.
by fundamentallysound on Jul 15, 2010 11:00 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Brad Miller isn't a priority compared to a starting 2 guard and a back up point guard
although I still think he can help this team, more than Kurt Thomas for sure.
by Basketball Smurf on Jul 15, 2010 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions
Brad can't defend anyone and he makes a fair number of mistakes on offense (stupid passes for TOVs)
whereas Kurt Thomas can still provide very solid interior defense and mistake free offense where all he does is stick midrange jumpers or move the ball.
2010 Offseason Motto: Get Greedy, Bulls. 1 top FA down (Thibs), 1 (or 2) to go.
by fundamentallysound on Jul 15, 2010 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions
Same here. Thomas can hit open jumpers and he's a better, more physical presence on D.
"Smith stripped. Smith stopped! Smith stopped again by Pippen!"
by ColonelFatheart on Jul 15, 2010 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions
I like Kurt (noooo) as a replacement
but I think keeping Miller has an edge in my book due to the locker room. I know 99% I don’t care, but he’s helped Noah.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 15, 2010 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, and who knows what kind of weed connections Thomas has.
Bradass has to get some bomb-ass herb. Just look at him.
"Smith stripped. Smith stopped! Smith stopped again by Pippen!"
by ColonelFatheart on Jul 15, 2010 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Noah was worse in dealing with the refs last year I think.
I blame Miller. He’s become quite the woman in his older age, just nagging and whining to the refs the entire time he’s in the game.
i would too
if this happened to me
All I want in life is for UC fans to chant: Deeeeeloooonte during Heat games
My backup Redick plan would be Ronnie Brewer and Eddie House. Kurt Thomas on the minimum salary and
hopefully Acie Law for pretty cheap. That would keep some capspace open, I think.
If Redick does come, I’d still look at Eddie House or Roger Mason for backup 2 guard minutes.
2010 Offseason Motto: Get Greedy, Bulls. 1 top FA down (Thibs), 1 (or 2) to go.
by fundamentallysound on Jul 15, 2010 11:04 AM CDT reply actions
You're right. Redick can't be the only 2 on the team.
I know Korver can play some minutes there, but they’re still going to be a little light. Unless the plan is to sit on some space for trade flexibility come the deadline.
"Smith stripped. Smith stopped! Smith stopped again by Pippen!"
by ColonelFatheart on Jul 15, 2010 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions
Especially since Redick has never been a starter at this level. We don't know how well he'll adjust to the additional minutes.
He should be fine, but we don’t know.
Eddie House or Mason behind Redick might be a little more expensive than they need to go for those minutes since I imagine we’ll see Kyle Korver getting at least 10 minutes a night at the shooting guard position.
I’d also like the Bulls to take a look at Luther Head now that the Hornets have screwed him over.
2010 Offseason Motto: Get Greedy, Bulls. 1 top FA down (Thibs), 1 (or 2) to go.
by fundamentallysound on Jul 15, 2010 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions
I am confident Redick can make the transition.
But I’d still be more comfortable if the Bulls were able to get Brewer, too. Not gonna happen, I know, but I’m worried about the 2 being short on athleticism and defense, a concern widely shared on these boards.
Damn, the more I think about it, the more I want Iggy.
"Smith stripped. Smith stopped! Smith stopped again by Pippen!"
by ColonelFatheart on Jul 15, 2010 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions
I wonder where KC is getting his cap info from?
There is nothing in our numbers suggesting the $2M to $3M discrepancy that he is reporting…moreover, why wouldn’t both numbers be consistently different from what we are guessing…Maybe KC has a lower number for the Redick offer than we have seen?
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
Perhaps someone on Twitter can tweet him about it. Does he usually get back to people?
"Smith stripped. Smith stopped! Smith stopped again by Pippen!"
by ColonelFatheart on Jul 15, 2010 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions
I did, so we'll see.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 15, 2010 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Thank you, sir.
"Smith stripped. Smith stopped! Smith stopped again by Pippen!"
by ColonelFatheart on Jul 15, 2010 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions
From his twitter response
it seems like he is just taking the total contract value and dividing by the years, i.e. he has Korver at $5 million. Maybe that really is how it is structured, but that makes the least sense to me compared to frontloading or backloading. If it is the case, it would seem like more evidence that they don’t have a plan.
yeah, then it's just KC running his own #s, I assumed he had inside info
this entire post was pointless, FUUUUUCK
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 15, 2010 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Not really..
I mean I disagree with the SG market disappearing, but still think the way they put together the contracts is interesting and worth talking about. I mean do you front load them so you have more money available in 3 years for role players, or do you need the money now? Do the players demand as much as possible up front?
Would be interesting to see how much of the negotiations the agents have with the team revolve around when they get the money vs. how much.
One of the many times I wish the Bulls would move Rick Hahn from the baseball side to the Bulls. I don’t how JR can clearly understand the value of a numbers guy like Hahn, but then not seem to put the same emphasis on the basketball side. Does he think with the cap it’s just not as big a deal? Is it really just his preference for baseball or is more KW philosophy driving it vs. Paxson?
by Grinder in Training on Jul 15, 2010 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions
man, you love talking about the White Sox
Bulls have supposedly the dean of cap gurus in Irwin Mandel.
I think they know the importance of it, but if they didn’t back-load as much as possible on the other non-Redick deals, they did it for some lamer reason like a favor to the agent or something. And they frontloaded as much as possible on Redick because they really really like Redick.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 15, 2010 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions
I understand why with Redick
Obviously, it puts the Magic in a bind, so that’s kind of a no-brainer.
by Grinder in Training on Jul 15, 2010 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions
The Magic thing was probably...
“What’s the highest first year salary that Orlando isn’t certain to match.”
Combined with less money each year (makes no sense to have an increasing salary if year 1 is used to deter the other team from matching) and 3 years total.
So that makes sense.
The other salaries are tough to analyze. Guys could want more money up front because of a possible lockout, so getting a slowly increasing structure may be the best possible scenario for the Bulls this offseason.
exactly, we can't assume the Bulls fully backloaded the Korver and Boozer signings
just because it makes the most sense for them to do so. There’s another side to the negotiation.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 15, 2010 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions
KC is probably getting his from the team
our numbers are assuming these contracts are fully back-loaded
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 15, 2010 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions
So perhaps they're front-loading in anticipation of signing Noah and Rose to extensions?
Or keeping options open later on?
"Smith stripped. Smith stopped! Smith stopped again by Pippen!"
by ColonelFatheart on Jul 15, 2010 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions
it's also simply better for the player to get more money up front
so that can be negotiated.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 15, 2010 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions
And it’s looking clear that after the Boozer signing, the Bulls didn’t value as much of the remaining cap space as one would think, content on filling out the roster around this ‘core’ instead of possibly adding another core piece.
Dude, who else did you expect to get? Really..everyone is basically gone unless you mean save and aim for Melo in 2011
All I want in life is for UC fans to chant: Deeeeeloooonte during Heat games
Dude, at least try
what’s more likely, that they diligently prepared all possible scenarios and knew that they couldn’t acquire anyone at a fringe all-star level? or that they knew that they didn’t want to spend more money on one anyway with Boozer/Deng already on the books and Noah/Rose to follow.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 15, 2010 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm banking on the latter
Although they might be deluded enough to think a team of Rose/Boozer/Deng/Noah + a bunch of unathletic shooters is really just as good
BullsTwo > Back up and running!
by Sports2 on Jul 15, 2010 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
so, what would you have done?
if you are garpaxdorf
All I want in life is for UC fans to chant: Deeeeeloooonte during Heat games
fired myself
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 15, 2010 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
You don't have that kind of power.
You can’t even quit.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
by tyger1147 on Jul 15, 2010 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions 7 recs
shit, I'm a Reinsdorf son?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 15, 2010 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Who is the fringe all-star they could have got?
by Grinder in Training on Jul 15, 2010 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions
i dont know man
i think yfbb just wants to argue today..lol
All I want in life is for UC fans to chant: Deeeeeloooonte during Heat games
by Belize on Jul 15, 2010 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Somebody from Philadelphia, or we could've kept pursing trades with the Clippers
what about K-Mart from Houston? We’ll never know for sure if they tried any of these things (Memphis should be mentioned as well) but right now there’s no indication that they have.
I got the skills to pay the bills and that's about it
by Rose Colored Goggles on Jul 15, 2010 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd say KMart is only available if Yao is hurt again
as of now they’re likely trying to contend and add another major piece, and if dealing Martin they’d want a front-line PF (not Taj)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 15, 2010 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree with that thinking
I’m just saying there were options out there they could’ve pursued, but it doesn’t seem like they did.
I got the skills to pay the bills and that's about it
by Rose Colored Goggles on Jul 15, 2010 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions
he is talking about Houston's KMart
by Basketball Smurf on Jul 15, 2010 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions
slaps self
All I want in life is for UC fans to chant: Deeeeeloooonte during Heat games
by Belize on Jul 15, 2010 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Really its a player shorthand fail.
Kenyon was clearly KMart before Kevin. Kevin Martin needs some other nickname, like kevM.
by JockstrapNoah on Jul 15, 2010 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions
can't we just use the tv show
maaaaartttttiiiin
All I want in life is for UC fans to chant: Deeeeeloooonte during Heat games
what about Kevim?
There are really only two plays: Romeo and Juliet, and put the darn ball in the basket.
-- Abe Lemons
Any chance we just don't know?
How often have we been surprised by trade and contract offers that happen with this oprganization? Rumors seem to fly everywhere, but we seem to not hear about things before they actually happen with the Bulls.
I have to think there’s a non-zero chance they have tried things that didn’t pan out, but were kept quiet.
sure, that's possible :)
but the insinuation here sometime is that OF COURSE they didn’t do anything because nobody’s available.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 15, 2010 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions
its hard to know what the Bulls are doing
you see teams like Phoenix and Utah being very aggressive using their trade exceptions to bring guys in and meanwhile the Bulls have a gigantic hole at 2 guard and made a decent offer to Redick that likely will be matched, but for the most part, seem to be picking around the ends of free agency (the Bell deal, the Shaq deal). When you look at who they have been rumored as wanting to acquire (aging vets) it seems more like a team that believes its ready to compete now, instead of a team looking to acquire another major piece.
by Basketball Smurf on Jul 15, 2010 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
right, that's my impression too
that and the ‘get guys whose names our fans might know’ idea, but even I’m not cynical enough for that :)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 15, 2010 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Besides Taj and late 1st rounders, what do we really have that interests other teams?
I think that’s a major part of the problem.
Obviously Rose, Noah and Boozer are not being traded unless it’s heavily lopsided, and a trade of that caliber happens a few times a decade, if that.
So now we have Deng, too high and long of a contract to get equal value in return (reports of the Bulls trying to pry Iggy from Philly have been there, that makes sense, but also is more of a hopeful trade than something we think Philly does. We just can’t offer major salary relief AND talent to them).
Al Jefferson would’ve been a major gamble on this team, taken up the rest of the cap space and probably cost us Taj (which is OK to give up Taj since Noah and Boozer with Al as a heavy minute backup in that front line rotation is solid). But with his health, selfishness and lack of defense, it’s just a big gamble to give up the depth of another 2 players or so, the draft picks and that long term salary. That’s the kind of thing that could put you over the top, but it also kills your flexibility and ultimately contention.
Who else was out there? We probably don’t have the assets to get Barbosa. Turkoglu, while I think is shittier, is cheaper and more versatile than Deng. I think the Suns like him a lot more than Luol.
Nobody wants Tyson Chandler. Rip Hamilton and Redd are too expensive to take on and we don’t have expirings or random guys to throw into a deal like that to offset salary.
So I’m not really seeing tons of options of what we can do. Name me 5 legitimate shooting guards that might be available. It’s just a rough year for that position, teams need shooting guards, there are a ton of fringe guys that are not likely good enough to start (common sense says at least some of these guys will mature into starters) but are solid bench guys. Korver, Brewer, Morrow fit that bill, Reddick is slightly ahead but still a fringe guy.
But as somebody who has always been criticizing this org, it’s tough for me to get too hard on them when A) they are not done filling the roster, there may be 12 mil+ left if Reddick isn’t matched to work with and B) Unlike many other times, there does not seem to be a lot of “well X is available, clearly we should go grab them.”
I usually think YFBB is spot on, but I think heavy criticism is a bit over the top at this point. Don’t get me wrong, come fall I may be joining the chorus of hatred, but for now I’m in “wait and see” mode, not ready to give a grade, seeing some good and some not so good in the Bulls offseason.
by RyPac13 on Jul 15, 2010 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree that it's not the best of circumstances
I hope the Org. is more creative than me, and my point has always been they didn’t even seem to entertain the idea of that route. Now, again, they could’ve just went through (and dismissed) all those possible scenarios before free agency…I’m not sure I can believe that.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 15, 2010 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree they did move quickly, almost too quickly to have considered other stuff in depth.
However, in the past we had Tyrus, Hinrich, Salmons, Gooden, Nocioni, Sefilosha, Hughes and others that were obvious candidates for trade.
Now, between the guys we obviously aren’t trading (Noah and Rose) to the new acquisitions that we likely aren’t trading (Boozer, Korver, maybe Reddick, Asik) it really boils down to Johnson (who would be interested except if we were dumping him?), Taj (org may like him and consider him hands off unless we can move Deng with him for something good) and Deng (high salary, many years).
So I could see half the teams not being considered because they have a solid SF, and the other half just telling Pax “yea, we don’t want Deng, no TY, we like Taj though if you’re interested in taking back some salary and getting a pick.” Trade options could be found to be slim at best very quickly if conversations are going that way. We just don’t have a ton of trade options on our own team, so figuring out what other teams are interested may take less time than it usually does.
by RyPac13 on Jul 15, 2010 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
we need to hope that teams are desperate to move salary
but a higher tax line did not help that.
I wonder if we keep Tyrus, would that be a better asset (as a S/T) than the first-rounder. Though he had a really high cap hold so it would’ve been dicey.
Would I have similarly complained if they did not move on Korver or Redick, and waited around for trades, and nothing popped up, and they lost out on both? Can’t see myself getting THAT upset missing out on either, but eh…probably
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 15, 2010 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Can't trade FAs you've signed for months anyway
There’s a rule against that.
So our assets really are just Taj, low #1s, and an untradeable Deng.
By the way RyPac13, I’ve rec’d both your posts. Spot on. Although I think over the past couple of days Matt has softened his tone and seems more open-minded too, which is good.
by RM on Jul 15, 2010 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions
I think it's just as good
your beeper is still working, I was wondering where you were on these posts.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 15, 2010 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I actually just had another Iguodalasm
He’s making $12,345,250 next year. send back 2 firsts, JJ, Taj.
Rose
Iggy
Deng
Boozer
Noah
Bench: Korver. Sign Kurt Thomas, Acie Law, whatever.
Actually this made more sense in my head when I figured we’d take Willie Green off their hands, but the Bulls run out of cap room in that scenario. Can we rescind that offer to Korver? fudge.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 15, 2010 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions
If the Sixers were in the mood to give Iggy away
That could work. I have the feeling they could get a similar or better package from the other teams with cap space / exceptions, though.
by RM on Jul 15, 2010 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions
I bet they at least give 'not giving him away' a go
before determining Turner+him can’t coexist.
though that’s not a terrible package, and likely better than what they’d find midseason.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 15, 2010 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions
i keep repeating myself, but i really really want iggy on this team.
i enjoy watching him play and i think hed be a great fit.
"If I was to answer that question honestly, I would have to lie to you."
- Isiah Thomas, when asked if any teams were interested in trading for Shandon Anderson
Fit
I don’t think he’d be the best fit … someone like Manu or Kevin Martin would be the best fit. But he’s good.
However it doesn’t look like we can get him. I really really want Manu on our team but it won’t happen. :(
by RM on Jul 15, 2010 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions
obviously manu would be a better fit because hes a significantly better
player. but i dont get why martin would be a better fit at all. iggy’s defense, rebounding and his ability to play point guard make him an excellent fit next to a guy like rose, much more so than kevin martin would.
"If I was to answer that question honestly, I would have to lie to you."
- Isiah Thomas, when asked if any teams were interested in trading for Shandon Anderson
by TheMoon on Jul 15, 2010 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Because
Because we need a shooter. If we had Iggy, no one in our starting lineup would be a legit 3-point threat.
Martin is a scorer and elite shooter … basically Reggie Miller-lite. And he’s not a complete liability defensively, either.
by RM on Jul 15, 2010 7:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Derrick Rose strongly
And so does Thibs in reference to Deng, when in his introductory presser he specifically stated that Luol could hit the corner three.
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
Its about spacing the floor FOR Derrick Rose
He can’t space the floor for himself.
by JockstrapNoah on Jul 15, 2010 8:31 PM CDT up reply actions
you want a shooter, but not at the expense of everything
else in the game of basketball. martin does one thing rose needs in his backcourt mate: good shooting. he royally sucks at everything else, especially since the bulls dont really need a 25 pt/g scorer. iggy is the exact opposite, which is why hes a lot better player and a much better fit.
"If I was to answer that question honestly, I would have to lie to you."
- Isiah Thomas, when asked if any teams were interested in trading for Shandon Anderson
Not to mention, it obviously wasn't stopping us from offering other guys
We had an offer out for Raja Bell. No one that we had interest in signed for over the 5 million we have available right now, so I don’t know what the big deal is.
by Grinder in Training on Jul 15, 2010 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions
The way we snatched up Boozer immediately after losing Bosh/Wade
Makes me (probably irrationally) confident that we’ll snatch up Brewer as soon as the Magic match Redick, and our cap space is available again.
"You can't be afraid to play somebody because they've got 3 really good players. How are you going to win if you're afraid to play? We're not going to be afraid to play - we're going to fight, we're going to attack, we're going to throw it out there and see what happens." - Carlos Boozer
That is what all signs point to...
Since Brewer has not signed with his old Jazz team, has not resigned with Memphis and by all accounts the Bulls have had discussions with Brewer…
Overall, Brewer has been the better player…which is why I was surprised that they targeted Redick before him. I can see what the Org. is trying to do, adding another shooter to the mix with Boozer and Rose, so with the addition of Korver, they can always have at least one long range threat on the floor…but, I still think they are okay if ( and this is a big if ) Derrick really has a consistent 3 and Luol takes two steps and continues to make them at a 38% clip.
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
by Dionysus2.0 on Jul 15, 2010 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions
If they do get Brewer and not Reddick
then the 3rd guard should obviously be that shooter and second ballhandler. I was going to say Randy Foye but he signed with the Clippers last week. Eddie House is alright but can’t be trusted to be a backup PG.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 15, 2010 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions
summer league guy to a minimum maybe?
Bouldin has played well… and played well for Gonzaga. I’m not a Lucas fan, but as a fall back guy I guess it wouldn’t be the end of the world.
those are pretty bad back up point guards
lets at least get a guy that has proven he can play an NBA season
by Basketball Smurf on Jul 15, 2010 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't disagree
Bouldin would be a backup SG.
I’m saying as a worst case, lets just save the cap space. Is $1mill for AC Law really that much better than Lucas? I don’t know… they both kinda suck. I guess Law is better, but is he worth 2x Lucas?
that depends. Are the Bulls trying to win now? If you are trying to win now
bring in the best guys, regardless of price. If you are planning for something in the future, than maybe you don’t care about the talent difference between Law and Lucas, or for a better example, someone like CJ watson and Lucas
by Basketball Smurf on Jul 15, 2010 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions
I like CJ Watson
as a back up PG for the Bulls
by QUINTEN DALEY on Jul 15, 2010 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Lucas is a good 3pt shooter.
45% from 3, if the Chinese 3pt line is in the same place then thats a skill that translates well across leagues.
by JockstrapNoah on Jul 15, 2010 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Did you watch any games?
I am asking because the tallest player in the NBA is from China; as well as the 6’11" Yi in D.C. – and the noted Chinese PG Sun Yue formerly of the Lakers was 6’8".
My small sample size of Chinese players tells me that they would be taller than average.
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
3 of the 4 guards on the Chinese National team are under 6' 3"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_men%27s_national_basketball_team
But, no, I haven’t seen any Chinese games.
Yet...
Not one is shorter than Lucas’ 5’11"
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
by Dionysus2.0 on Jul 15, 2010 11:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Would you rather shoot over someone 6'3" or 6'6"?
Look at Hinrich’s stats if you want to see what happens when you’re covered by taller players.
yeah, that's more 'emergency pg' status
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 15, 2010 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Luther Head or Roger Mason
Can handle the rock a bit. Probably enough to run backup PG for spot minutes. I think anyway. What about Keyon Dooling? Always liked his game.
2010 Offseason Motto: Get Greedy, Bulls. 1 top FA down (Thibs), 1 (or 2) to go.
by fundamentallysound on Jul 15, 2010 12:40 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I like Dooling too
and he shoots way more 3s than I would’ve guessed.
Actually any of those guys would be alright. Not as good as Redick+Brewer, but Brewer+Mason or Redick+Dooling is…alright.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 15, 2010 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions
ooo. keyon would be pretty cool.
"If I was to answer that question honestly, I would have to lie to you."
- Isiah Thomas, when asked if any teams were interested in trading for Shandon Anderson
Agreed 100%
I expect us to get Brewer if we lose out on Redick, but that means we really need our backup PG to be a shooter.
by RM on Jul 15, 2010 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Sometimes...
you need to put your money up! If we learned anything this summer, its that having extra money you can weld a lot of power. No need to rush into a hasty situation. Jefferson is still out there. There are reports NY wants to get rid of Chandler. Orlando may want to move Pietrus. Be patient. Its a process. We should not rush to failure by just signing whoever to a bulky contract that wont fit. Brewer has waited patiently, and I would bet its due to the fact the Bulls are still in contact with him. Patience is critical though! Thoughts?
by joepepp23 on Jul 15, 2010 12:00 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Thoughts.. I agree completely.
We haven’t lost anyone that we have interest in by doing this. We had an offer for Bell too, so it’s not like Redick killed that and Livingston got an opportunity to start, and Brewer & TMac are still available. yfBB himself said the deal Lowry got was pricey, and Houston is matching anyways.
So basically the only guy I see that we lost out on that you could suggest was due to the Redick contract that would be of any interest is the criminal Delonte West?
I don’t see how this has hurt us in any way.
by Grinder in Training on Jul 15, 2010 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions
I wasn't even portraying it as a doomsday
just stating the facts that guys are getting snapped up, and they’ll have to hunt deeper for bargains at the 3rd guard. And that’s assuming Brewer takes an offer if Redick is matched, which I sort of am assuming, but that’d obviously be bad if he didn’t take the money either.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 15, 2010 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions
All great points my dude!
I think its Brewer or JJ in my opnion. I mean there really isn’t any other viable options at this point.
Trade Idea (b/c I'm bored and I think the Magic will match)
Bulls send: Taj Gibson to Memphis, 2nd rd pick to Orlando
Bulls receive: Mayo and Pietrus
Orlando trades: Pietrus to Chicago, and Gortat to Denver
Orlando receives: Birdman from Denver, precious tax relief, a 2nd round pick
Denver trades: JR Smith to Memphis, Birdman to Orlando
Denver receives: Gortat from Orlando
Memphis trades: Mayo to Chicago
Memphis receives: JR Smith, Taj Gibson (possible draft pick from Chicago)
Why Orlando does it: If they match Redick they are paying 14 million in tax for team that is too deep with similar players. Birdman makes 2.5 million less than Gortat, so that saves them money, plus they give away Pietrus to keep Redick
Why Denver does it: They desperately need a big man with Kenyon Martin injured. If they have any hope of matching up with the Lakers they need size. Gortat at the 5, Nene at the 4 and Melo at the 3 may be the most physical team in the league. Plus JR Smith and Carmelo started to butt heads at the end of the season and playoffs. Guess who wins that battle.
Why Memphis does it: For some reason they don’t seem to like Mayo. I doubt they extend him for big money, they got 2 guys who play his position, they may try to force him to play point guard, but I don’t think it will work. JR Smith is a good replacement until Henry is ready. Also Taj gives them a back up PF defender to rotate with Gasol and Randolph.
Why the Bulls do it: Taj is a good player, but Mayo has tons more potential. We are weak at the 2 and 3 and this trade really gives us depth. We lose our back up PF, but we have Asik and Miller can be resigned. Noah can easily play PF minutes behind Boozer. I was wanting to add in Ryan Anderson, but that makes the price seem quite high for the Magic. Mayo can play some spot minutes at the 1 so we get a 2nd or 3rd string pg as well. This team should have the tools to compete against Miami now and over the next few years.
Rose / Free Agent (CJ Watson) / Mayo
Mayo / Pietrus / Korver
Deng / Korver / Pietrus
Boozer / Noah / Deng
Noah / Miller / Asik
If this trade went down the Bulls would have about 4 million left for a back up PG and PF. Or they could pocket that money as a trade chip as we head into the season.
by Basketball Smurf on Jul 15, 2010 12:10 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
i for one would love this
maybe you could sign Kurt Thomas as the Taj replacement. that team not only becomes more of a contender now, but you’ve got a sweet core of still-improving guys in place for years to come.
I don't see Memphis moving Mayo right now.
He was in Vegas working specifically on being a PG. At least that’s what he said in an interview.
Maybe it won’t work, but I would think he wouldn’t have done it if Memphis didn’t at least act like they were fully invested him.
Then again, “pretending” seems to be the Memphis way right now.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
by tyger1147 on Jul 15, 2010 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
do you ever agree less than 100%?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 15, 2010 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Yes
My posts are just longer when I don’t completely agree, since I feel obliged to explain where I differ. :P
by RM on Jul 15, 2010 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions
well
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 15, 2010 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
True
I do use it too … guess this is a subtle message to stop posting “agreed 100%” :P
by RM on Jul 15, 2010 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Subtle...
Like a Jackhammer.
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
agree 95%
not 100% because not all Jackhammers are obnoxiously loud (see: The Gentle Jack)
by Attack on Jul 15, 2010 6:20 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agree with u
But an easier target may be Xavier Henry. Memphis is low balling him. Maybe sneak into the rumored Cleveland – Memphis deal. Memphis needs a big man to back up Baby Gasol and Randolph. Cleveland wants an up tempo PG.
Cavs Get: PG Mike Conley from Memphis and SF James Johnson from Chicago
Grizz Get : PF Anderson Varajeo from Cleveland, 1st round pick, and $3 mil from Chicago
Bulls Get: Rights to SG Xavier Henry and 2nd round pick picks from Memphis and Cleveland
The cash would be the difference between Conley’s contract and Varajeo’s. And if I’m right that doesn’t go against the cap.
Gotta love a 4 way trade where the Bulls give up the least by far and still end up with the best player in the deal
The Grizzlies are trying to move Mayo to PG. He’s even been playing Summer League this year to help his adjustment.
Well, isn't what LeBron did last night the living embodiment of The Secret, leaving millions on the table and turning himself into a hometown villain, all for the sake of winning?
Neil Paine, basketball-reference.com
by snley on Jul 15, 2010 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
yeah, i've watched Mayo play a long time
it won’t work. He isn’t a point guard and the Grizz don’t know what they are doing trying to move him there
by Basketball Smurf on Jul 15, 2010 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions
agreed!!!
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
by tyger1147 on Jul 15, 2010 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
disagree, no use
crying over spilled milk, a lot of teams passed on Lawson.
by QUINTEN DALEY on Jul 15, 2010 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions
i'd throw in Charlotte's pick and one of our own to make it happen
but yeah, there is a 99% chance it wouldn’t happen. I still think its a fair deal for all involved
by Basketball Smurf on Jul 15, 2010 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Think they're desperate b/c Conley's a bust and they gave away Lowry, oh, and b/c they're the Grizz
Well, isn't what LeBron did last night the living embodiment of The Secret, leaving millions on the table and turning himself into a hometown villain, all for the sake of winning?
Neil Paine, basketball-reference.com
by snley on Jul 15, 2010 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not sure Denver
thinks they need another big. They just signed Al Harrington to a contract, so I’d assume he’s there to play pf and not sf with Melo there. Love the trade idea, how we turned a 2nd and Taj into Pietrus and Mayo. I love the idea of going after pietrus though, and having been saying that for a while to my buddy that we should go get him.
http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/68132/20100714/nuggets_land_al_harrington_on_$34m_deal/
Sorry
There is no way we get Mayo and Pietrus for Taj + 2nd rounder. That’s totally unrealistic.
Mayo is one of the building blocks for Memphis.
Pietrus is more realistic, but he’s cheap and I doubt that they trade him to us, especially for so little in return.
by RM on Jul 15, 2010 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions
That would be one hell of a bench
and couldn’t be matched in the Eastern Conference.
Jeff from Cleveland wrote- I've figured out the moral of the story: Stay in school. Wade: 3 years at Marquette, Bosh: 1 year at Georgia Tech, the kid from Akron: no college. The most educated guy convinced his dumber friends to come play on his team for less money.
Wait, so all we give up is Taj and a 2nd and we get Mayo + Pietrius
That would be one of the best all-time trades in the NBA. Those other teams would ask more of us, all we are basically doing is facilitating them giving parts to us.
You have to get when the gettings good
I wouldnt wait for everyone to sign and then be left scratching ur head saying wow we should of signed these guys and not waited so long.
I assume the Bulls have offered contracts to players depending on whether Orlando matches or not. I'm not too worried about losing players
"Oh, y ahora ¿quién podrá defenderme?" "¡Yo!"
by chapuforyou on Jul 15, 2010 12:52 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
You're only going to beat Miami with size
Miller should be a priority if he wants to stay here. I would go after a young big too, someone like Earl Barron?
Either Redick or Brewer should be a Bull by tomorrow night. All the other guard options after those two are pretty interchangeable.
I will never doubt the Chairman again.
Any interest in Acie Law, Joe Alexander, or Patrick O'Bryant at league minimum?
Assuming they’ll accept league minimum.
yes, no, no
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 15, 2010 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
O'Byrant 6 fouls
aren’t worth wasting a roster spot.
by QUINTEN DALEY on Jul 15, 2010 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't know why, but I still like Joe Alexander.
I may need help.
'The Decision' : 12% of people don't like me.
Possible veteran back-up bigs:
Joe Smith, Theo Ratliff, Brian Skinner, Craig Smith, Jamaal Magloire, Kurt Thomas.
I left off a few bigs I didn’t care for.
Said it elsewhere
But am I just being naive to assume that the Bulls must really believe Asik can play if they haven’t signed a different back up big man by now? Clearly there is a market of guys available if we wanted one.
by Grinder in Training on Jul 15, 2010 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions
i think the assumption is that as your 4th big man, he will be fine
Boozer can play the 5 for some minutes when Taj slides to the 4. Deng can also see minutes at the 4. If you sign Miller, how many are there available between the two of them? Asik was said to have lottery talent. He appears to be big and physical. I’m hoping he can have a similar impact as Gortat – a good defender who doesn’t kill you on offense.
by Basketball Smurf on Jul 15, 2010 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm worried about that
if Asik only shoots 36% on free throws, that’s more than just a free throw problem, it indicates that he can barely coordinate his limbs
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 15, 2010 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Holy fuckin shit.
Where did he shoot 36%? Hack-a-sik…
by Scottie's Nose on Jul 15, 2010 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
this was from January
His free throw stroke is still pretty biblically terrible, however; Asik is shooting 36% from there in the Euroleague and 43% in the Turkish league (and even that’s only salvaged by the 6-6 performance in his last game; he started 8 for 31)
http://blog.shamsports.com/2010/01/where-are-they-now-2010-part-4.html
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 15, 2010 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions
What. The. Fuck.
"Smith stripped. Smith stopped! Smith stopped again by Pippen!"
by ColonelFatheart on Jul 15, 2010 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions
You won't see him in games, late in the 4th quarter
even if Noah is in foul trouble or foul out
I sure hope not.
I mean Jesus. Jr. High teams shoot a better percentage.
by Scottie's Nose on Jul 15, 2010 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions
It's funny
how guys in the nba can get paid millions of dollars and can’t make a damn free throw………………..like Allen Iverson said, it’s only practice……change that to it’s only freethrows
Still...look at Shaq!
His FT stroke looked (and was) terrible for years and years and years! He was still money and actually had a decent looking hook shot and nice touch around the basket. True, Asik isn’t anywhere in the same neighborhood as Shaq physically, but just because a player’s shooting stroke is abysmal, doesn’t mean they are a bumbling moron on the court.
Although, 36% makes me want to barf.
yeah, Shaq was at least a career 52% FT shooter
interesting fact: if you type ‘Shaq’ in b-r, you could get this.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 15, 2010 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Also
Wilt Chamberlain in 67-68: 11.4FTA, 38%…it is possible to be a very good player and suck at FTs.
Thats a bit of a reach.
You kinda just compared Asik to Wilt.
by Scottie's Nose on Jul 15, 2010 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Again, not at all
I compared him to Shaq above and clearly that would be a horrible comparison.
I am not comparing them, but merely trying to show that being a beyond horrible FT shooter does not mean you have no control over your limbs.
point taken :)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 15, 2010 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions
asik is gonna be like that skinny white boy on washington
by gunyhighway on Jul 16, 2010 12:16 AM CDT up reply actions
Bulls aren't getting Ratliff,
Larry Brown is br
by QUINTEN DALEY on Jul 15, 2010 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions
At this point
Would it be easier to trade Deng for a legit SG, and sign one of these SF’s that left on the market if we lose out on Redick? Maybe even if we do get Redick.
I would take Matt Barnes, Josh Howard, or Richard Jefferson as my starting SF, if it means that we have a nice SG.
I sort of see the point
I think we’ve seen the lack of trade market for Deng, however.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 15, 2010 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
No one wants Deng, period.
We couldn’t trade him when we were desperate to do so. No reason to think we can trade him now.
by RM on Jul 15, 2010 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions
We could trade him..
There was no reason to. We weren’t going to just give away our top 10 SF who is only 25. That’d just be stupid. He’s not that overpaid. Look at what Rudy Gay got, there would be takers if we were just giving him away like we did Hinrich.
by Grinder in Training on Jul 15, 2010 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions
I understand your point of view
But all of the analysts and reporters said that we tried giving away Deng and couldn’t find any takers because of his bad contract. I didn’t just make that up myself.
by RM on Jul 15, 2010 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions
The same people that said we are getting LeBron
Or that he was going to the Nets? If you look at the guy and the contract, it would seem very hard to believe there are literally no takers for him if you went the Hinrich route.
by Grinder in Training on Jul 15, 2010 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions
there's reason to believe Deng is damaged goods
reason enough not to take on the over $50m he is still due.
I do agree he’s worth to us more staying than in a trade
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 15, 2010 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Damaged goods?
He played 70 games last year and the 5 playoff games? I mean the last time we saw him, he played 45 minutes, scored 26 and grabbed 6 boards. Am I missing something?
by Grinder in Training on Jul 15, 2010 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions
And 50 games the year before. And 60 the year before that.
You can only be the type of player that’s always “banged up” for so long before a serious injury comes along.
The two years before that 82 and 78 games.
If you are going to go back three years, you should go back 4 & 5 too. If we’re talking about a guy’s health I’d think the most recent year is most important. 70 games with his production is a solid value.
To your second point, is there evidence that a guy who is “banged up” is more likely to have a serious injury? I’d be more concerned about Noah’s feet than Luol Deng’s health.
Being banged up doesn’t make you damaged goods, Noah I could understand being damaged goods, because that’s something could follow him the rest of his career.
I just don’t see it, the guy was obviously playing at a high level last year and played 75 gamestal to. It’s not like he missed half the season.
by Grinder in Training on Jul 15, 2010 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions
what about that whole stress fracture thing?
Maybe teams are seeing a noticable difference in pre/post injury deng that is scaring them away?
Well he seemed to play well?
I haven’t seen that anywhere, have you?
by Grinder in Training on Jul 15, 2010 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions
just guessing at what they might be thinking
I haven’t read anything to show what’s going on in any GMs heads concerning Deng.
But overall he was steadily improving during his first 3-4 years until he first got hurt, and since then he’s kinda plateaued. Maybe they all just came to the same conclusion that most people around here have; that he’s a good player that’s being paid just a little too much for what he brings to the table, and he’s not likely to improve on that.
He's not insured right ?
Blogabull has the answer —> link
by JockstrapNoah on Jul 15, 2010 8:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Sign and Trade RJ for Deng is an interesting idea, if RJ is taking a big pay cut.
We could throw them Taj and take back some decent piece that is more costly than Taj, perhaps saving the 10% in lopsided salaries that it would allow (Spurs are over the cap no?).
Then we have an additional piece to replace Taj with, and Jefferson who could conceivably fit better than Deng does with this team (he can hit 3s and knows where that line is, correct?).
It allows us to more easily get rid of some of that salary Deng had previously held (much easier to either move Jefferson at 8-10 mil or at least the other piece for 2-5 million than all of Deng’s 12-13 mil), give us comparable talent in return and save us 1.5-2 million in cap space to fill out the roster.
The cap space is likely used to sign a better backup point guard, but I think it really would give us valuable roster flexibility in the upcoming years, when we’ll clearly be over the tax and will only have exceptions, trades and draft picks to add to this team.
Richard Jefferson is comparable talent to Luol Deng?
I thought the idea was trade Deng for a SG, then a sign guy like Jefferson, not trade Deng for Jefferson? That just seems to make us worse and we’d still have no SG.
by Grinder in Training on Jul 15, 2010 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I wouldn't do a deal for S&T for Jefferson
I would sign him outright, SA couldn’t give us a SG. Most likely u’d have to look for a multiple team trade.
I'm not a fan of RJ
But, I suppose Jefferson at 1/2 the price might be better than Deng. It would only work if someone in SA love’s Deng.
We'll win the fiscal responsibility playoffs
But I don’t see what that “flexibility” translates into down the road. Since we’ll be well over the cap in either case, it’ll be harder to do much.
Worse still, RJeff is older than Deng, and seems sort of creaky already. So there’s a good chance we’ll spend that extra flexibility and more in an effort to replace Deng, not bolstering other areas of the team.
BullsTwo > Back up and running!
not really
since they’re going to use the space to fill out the roster somehow for this season, and next offseason will (presumably) have Noah’s raise.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 15, 2010 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yep
We’ll lose our cap space later due to Noah/Rose’s extensions, so the best move would be for us to use it all now on contracts.
by RM on Jul 15, 2010 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions
What are the cap holds
on those two for next year?
yes!
The name of the team is ARIZONA DIAMONDBACKS - "I tried to convince them that what they were doing was an aberration, an imbecility, a stupidity without name"
Okay.
So say we get Redick. Brewer asks for too much green and the organization gets cheap, we have Korver and I guess James Johnson (which is really annoying having two JJs on the same team, and we almost had 3…) as backup 2/3. Is that enough off the bench? We should probably go after another defensive player, right?
yeah we'd need another guard to play D
and yet another guard to handle the ball. I doubt we could find someone to do both. Kirk Hinrich isn’t walking back through that door for $4m
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 15, 2010 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions
It is ironic
that Kirk fits the exact type of player we are searching for now.
by Scottie's Nose on Jul 15, 2010 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah right
A small point guard that gives you defense but hardly no offense
Kirk's a small pg?
How much smaller than average? I’d say he is above average. And he’s certainly an above average defender.
by Scottie's Nose on Jul 15, 2010 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions
I notice
you didn’t mention his offense………………i was talking about kirk playing out of position
That's because the role we need now is a good defender
that can preferrably handle the ball. (This is all assuming we sign Redick)
by Scottie's Nose on Jul 15, 2010 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Acie Law
fits that bill. Not gonna give you much in the way of scoring, but will defend and run the offense.
by kozzer on Jul 15, 2010 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Kirk is a 6'3" PG,
he is big PG, but small SG
by QUINTEN DALEY on Jul 15, 2010 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions
That was a few days ago.
I already fretted over the eventual Beaubois – Jones – Mahinmi trio post Kidd/Nowitski
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Yet for some reason Brad Miller is a priority?
Some teams just get it.
"Boozer's dumb ass jumped. So I dunked on his ass."-Joakim Noah
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 15, 2010 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions
This is the same team that:
Signed Dampier to a huge deal over keeping Nash; and just signed Haywood to a gigantic deal among other curiosities. I wouldn’t necessarily say that the Mavericks get it.
If losing money is getting it
then they are getting it. And they’re not going to win the championship this year either..
by JockstrapNoah on Jul 15, 2010 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions
It is one of the primary examples of why Cuban should not be so involved
He doesn’t know the game of basketball as much as he thinks he knows the game of basketball. Needs to hire a legitimate, autonomous, GM.
He and fucking’ Jerry Jones are moronic toolbags when it comes to building teams. There is a structure in place for a reason.
I met one of Hinrich's Professor's at Kansas, but he never met Hinrich.
by Another Afflicted Chicago Fan on Jul 15, 2010 8:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Deng
I dont get why everyone in this city hates on Deng so much. I think its cause people had such high expectations for him to be a go to guy once upon a time and he has a big contract but he’s not a go to guy so people should stop acting like he sucks. 17 and 7 on 47% shooting and a steal and block per game last year is pretty damn good for someone that’s gonna be our 3rd or 4th option on offense. Id much rather have Deng than RJ
"To me personally, I think it's perfect ....." -Noah
by DaaaBulls on Jul 15, 2010 2:22 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
I don't hate on him.
I like him and I think he’s roughly a 6-win player (top-50 to top-60 player or so).
Unfortunately he’s overpaid, so his contract has been an impediment to us this off-season. That’s all.
Now that the FAs are all gone, and our cap space will be eaten up by extensions, I want to keep Deng unless we can get a better SF back in a trade.
by RM on Jul 15, 2010 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Probably because
He takes those long 2s instead of 3s, doesn’t drive to the basket enough and getting paid like a all-star, not living up to his potential…………….but i still like deng, i just don’t like his contract and that’s not his fault, blame that on bulls management
Deng is about to have a breakout year
Because he already has started to take that one extra step back to the three point line. Check out his progression.
04-05 He takes 2 threes a game, but only shoots 26%.
05-06 He cuts his threes to 1 a game, but only shoots 27%
06-07 Having cut out the crappy threes, he has his best season
07-08 He starts sneaking in a a few threes (0.3/game). Hits 36%
08-09 A few more threes (0.4/game). Hits 40%
09-10 Ramps up threes again (1.2/game). Hits 39%
This is all setup for him to go back up to taking 2 threes a game again, but now with a 38-40% rate.
On top of that, he got his FTA/game up to a career high 4.7 last year. TO LEAD THE TEAM! Yes, more than Rose. Luol has been finishing his curls into the lane more instead of settleing for the pull up mid range jumper.
The big three is Rose-Deng-Boozer. We will all be glad we didnt trade him this off season
Ball 4!
by californiachicagoan on Jul 15, 2010 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't think people hate on him as much as they are on our lack of a SG.
At least they shouldn’t. That guy who wanted to trade him for RJ obviously does not realize that RJ has fallen off a cliff. I wouldn’t look at that post and thing that’s the general consensus. I’d assume almost everyone would much rather have Deng than RJ.
At the same time, we realize there is a lack of SG’s, but there are serviceable SF’s apparently available. Since Deng is our most valuable trading piece, and could actually start for a lot of teams in this league, he’s just the most logical choice to be moved.
I don’t think it means people dislike the guy or don’t recognize his talent.
by Grinder in Training on Jul 15, 2010 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Thank U Grinder
I don’t hate Deng, but if we can get someone at SG that is a better value than everything left out here, and pick up a SF that is comparable, I’m all for trading him
I think its cause people had such high expectations for him to be a go to guy once upon a time and he has a big contract but
is overvalued and injury prone.
The hate will prob stop this year cuz he’s a 3/4 option. He can wing that.
All I want in life is for UC fans to chant: Deeeeeloooonte during Heat games
By what time tomorrow does Orlando have to make its decision?
"Smith stripped. Smith stopped! Smith stopped again by Pippen!"
by ColonelFatheart on Jul 15, 2010 2:40 PM CDT reply actions
Someone asked KC this earlier today
and he said he wasn’t sure.
by RM on Jul 15, 2010 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Updated
KCJHoop
Just found out Orlando’s deadline to match or not match Redick offer is Saturday evening, not Friday as has been previously reported.
by Option27 on Jul 15, 2010 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Christ.
"Smith stripped. Smith stopped! Smith stopped again by Pippen!"
by ColonelFatheart on Jul 15, 2010 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
What's worse is
K.C Johnson KCJHoop
Most league execs, agents and coaches I’ve talked to here in Vegas still expect the Magic to match Bulls’ offer for Redick.
I'll believe when I see it. Who's cares what these guys think
Orlando not giving a definitive answer means nothing. The Bulls will get a backup point guard from their summer league roster and if JJ falls through, sign Brewer and Mason as their shooting guards.
by Brutha Bonzo on Jul 15, 2010 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Who cares what these guys think...
What did Stephen A have to say about it???
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
what kind of world is this to bring up your children in?
;)
'The Decision' : 12% of people don't like me.
The same execs that felt "certain" Lebron was going to Cleveland I hope.
Or the same guys that “guaranteed he’s coming to NY, it’s all but finalized.”
Again, I hope.
holy crap
hes worth 4.5 bill??? I really wish i knew that all along cause Ive been holding out hope for JJ but its looking like a zero percent chance. 14 mil to this dude is like $30 for us. Especially with how bad the magic fans want JJ back. Damn….Whatever Brewer would be a great addition to D up wade. Maybe even better than JJ
"To me personally, I think it's perfect ....." -Noah
That's not how you need to look at it.
A lot of these guys can afford 14 million, that’s not really been a factor.
The only thing that’s mattered is how it ties up their cap situation going forward and prevents them from making other moves later. Just depends on if they think with Redick they have a complete roster, or if they think it will be easy to move their other guys if they do keep him.
by Grinder in Training on Jul 15, 2010 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions
If he's easy to move if he's on the Bulls, as you've claimed, he's easy to move for ORL, too.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
He started Amway
"It was a perfect situation for the Brewers," Hill said. "They had a guy up there at the plate [in Counsell] who takes a lot of pride in what he does and he practices those situations, so when it does come up, he gets the bunt down to the right side of the field. They have the perfect guy on first base [in Gomez], who is one of the fastest guys in the league, and they had one of the worst fundamental teams on the field, so it was a perfect situation for them."
by louslovechild on Jul 15, 2010 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions
I think one reason Orlando is taking a while to match JJ's offer sheet
is because they’re trying to move players to make room for JJ’s salary or maybe figuring ways to move guys during the season and see if there ary any takers. I’m not believing that Orlando is gonna match until I hear the official report from the Magic.
by Brutha Bonzo on Jul 15, 2010 3:09 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Why the Brewer hate? The man is an explosive 2 guard. Something the bulls need! im sorry but u gotta have a player that can drive and flush at the 2. Deng will be in the corner for the 17 footer everytime. I think a bulls with brewer starting is a much better option than redick. And lets face it, a three point shooter is an asset on a team, but not a starter. an athelete is what makes it in the nba. Korver and Reddick of the bench to light it up makes our team a serious contender. but i feel brewer would be a great starter for us to play 1-2 with rose.
Who the hell is hating on Brewer?
For Christ sake, there’s a fanshot rec’ed to the top of the fanshots that’s headlined, “Brewer apparently wasn’t willing to commit to the Grizzlies’ latest offer because of pending negotiations with Chicago and Utah.”
by Option27 on Jul 15, 2010 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
What about the dream that is McGrady
Don’t want to take the thread in a completely different direction, but is he worth the headache if Redick is snatched back up and, as mentioned multiple times, having Brewer limits our ability to spread the defense?
The figment of our imaginative hopes for McGrady (a return to pre-2008 form) is not likely to happen. However, just as many formerly athletic, aging SGs do (As well as some PFs), he will develop his consistency as a spot-up shooter—including threes.
It’s a speculative hope, and would require the bulls to simutaneously role the dice as well as TMAC to put in the time, but we obviously have the initiative to sign a good SG, regardless of past health (see “maybe ready to go at All-Star Break” Josh Howard).
I met one of Hinrich's Professor's at Kansas, but he never met Hinrich.
by Another Afflicted Chicago Fan on Jul 15, 2010 3:38 PM CDT reply actions
A walk-the-ball
shoot first point guard who doesn’t play defense and has been broken down the past few year? No thanks.
Did you say point guard?
Maybe a point-forwad at times, and perhaps did some backup duty at the point, but that is not how you characterize McGrady. I’ve never heard anyone refer to him as a point guard, come to think of it…
I met one of Hinrich's Professor's at Kansas, but he never met Hinrich.
by Another Afflicted Chicago Fan on Jul 15, 2010 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions
yea the bulls need to consider the heat with every move they make
and Brewer is far and away the best guy out there to throw on D-Fag and Leclown…..Bulls’ only shot of beating the heat will be to out hustle, out defend (haha, does even make sense?) and out rebound them. Also, the built in chemistry Brewer has with korver and boozer already is a nice bonus
"To me personally, I think it's perfect ....." -Noah
i think it would have made more sense
if you used the word “thrust”
Can I make a suggestion?
okay
If Reinsdorf isn’t taking James and Bosh and Wade playing in Miami personal, can you fans please stop taking to personal? Pleeeze!!! :-P
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Nah not personal, just wanna kick their ass.
Like really bad, in fact…..its all I want for Christmas.
'The Decision' : 12% of people don't like me.
How is this for random, cheap, decent(?) bench filler:
Brian Scalabrine
Shoots the 3. Plays OK defense. Probably doesn’t do much else.
Might be a solid situational forward.
Brewer is Interested!
Free agent swingman Ronnie Brewer is interested in playing for the Chicago Bulls, according to his agent Henry Thomas.
http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nba/news/story?id=5383699
Come on in buddy! (Did someone already post?)
by wordtrey on Jul 15, 2010 4:13 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
Nice
I’m still holding out a sliver of hope for both Redick and Brewer
by kozzer on Jul 15, 2010 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Based on the earlier report that we'd have only about $5M left in cap space if we signed Brewer
It might be pretty tight.
You mean if we sign Redick, I assume
yeah, that’d be very tight, considering we’d still need another 2 or 3 players after that (ie backup PG, 3rd C)
Same
That would be ideal. We’d have insane wing depth then:
Deng/Redick/Brewer/Korver/JJ
by RM on Jul 15, 2010 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions
The Bulls would be
really good and deep all over, assuming they get a decent backup PG and 3rd center (Brad?).
Matchups
I’d probably start Redick (because for ego management purposes it’s best not to change starting lineups every week), but the # of minutes he gets (vs. how much Brewer gets) would depend a lot on matchups. Against some opponents, I’d play Brewer twice as much as Redick.
by RM on Jul 15, 2010 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions
No cap space
The Magic control the clock on the Redick deal.
I can predict the future using Norm Van Lier's crystal balls.
"Sam has a tendency to denigrate reports coming from any reporter who didn’t also cover the day Naismith first put up the peach baskets." - snley
by NBA Observer on Jul 15, 2010 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Same Question
Even if we Redick signs, and we have the low estimate of about $5mil left. Brewer can’t be getting the rest of that. Raja Bell just signed for 3/10, I can’t see Brewer costing us more than that.
So we have the cap space to go sign him right now.
maybe they know he's as good as signed if they officially offer him anything
so they’re holding onto that and exploring other options. Kinda like (I assume) it went down with Boozer. He was as good as guaranteed if we didn’t get Bosh.
it's interesting how we can get desperate
if we went out and signed Brewer last week, meh. But if Redick is matched, and we sign Brewer, oh thank god!
Same thing with LeBron and Boozer. Can you imagine if we didn’t get Boozer! how lucky are we??
I get it, but still.
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"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 15, 2010 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions
the thing is....
at this point if we can’t get brewer, who is our starting SG to start the season (barring a trade). Also, with boozer, if we wouldn’t have got him or lee, who would we have gotten at all??? thats why i’m very thankful if we can actually get some good players.
OKthat'swhatIsaidthanks
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 15, 2010 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ya
To be fair, when the Bulls made an offer on Redick, they said they were okay with tying up the money for a week because they had good fallback options like Brewer. If we end up with Brewer, then that’s fine.
I’ll be mad if we miss out on both Redick AND Brewer, though.
by RM on Jul 15, 2010 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions
I forsee Redick getting signed....
Then Bulls sign Brewer and Roger Mason for SG spot. That gives them enough financial flexibility to still make a big trade for a SG later.
True. He's also listed at 6'5" so he must have some length to him, which would be good in Thibs' system.
"Smith stripped. Smith stopped! Smith stopped again by Pippen!"
by ColonelFatheart on Jul 15, 2010 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes
If he wasn’t playing for Pop it was because he lost reliability offensively.
I can predict the future using Norm Van Lier's crystal balls.
"Sam ha