Deng for Pietrus and Gortat?
this.. would.. be... AWESOME!
almost 2 years ago
SoulEater7
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That's not a half bad trade...
…though I think they should wait and see how the draft and early period shake out before potentially eclipsing the Bosh possibility…
Thats a title team with LeBron.
Would Gortat start for ya? I might start him and move Gibson to the bench.
Gortat
Noah
James
Pietrus
Rose
I love it.
How about making it a three way trade by moving Hinrich and Gortat to Toronto for Bosh?
Gortat getting moved to the NBA’s international squad might be a good fit.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
I think the only player that isn't keeping an open mind about this whole process
is Wade.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
I just hope
Wade’s not open mind changes if say Bosh, Lebron, Amar’e, Boozer all go elsewhere or make it known they aren’t staying in Miami. He’d rather stay in Miami but he still hasn’t signed….
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
Yeah if they can't get another player that improves the team
I think he will change him mind quickly.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
I wouldn't start Gortat.
I would rather play Rose/Kirk/Pietrus/Lebron/Noah or Rose-Pietrus/Lebron/Taj/Noah than Rose/Pietrus/Lebron/Gortat/Noah. Gortat is more useful replacing Noah than going alongside him, unless of course we play a team like the Lakers.
I wouldn't either
Gortat would get a lot more minutes here than in Orlando though. He would play with Noah, he just wouldn’t start along with him.
You guys are crazy
Gorton and Noah are both way better than Taj, and Noah can play the 4 just fine.
This would be a nice trade. It doesn't clear more cap space though.
The rumors of the Bulls moving Deng and Hinrich might just be true then.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
very interesting....
if they can get LBJ:
Rose/Hinirch
Pietrus/Hinrich
LBJ/Johnson
Gibson/?
Noah/Gortat
I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith
Why wouldnt' you just have it be
Rose/Hinrich
Pietrus (or HInrich)/Hinrich
LBJ/Johnson
Noah/Gibson
Gortat/Noah
And maybe try to lure in Ray Allen as our other SG.
Pietrus is really pretty good but seems to be always hurt. Noah’s a good 4 or 5….
Gortat’s one of the best off the bench bigs int he game, and would start for many a team.
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
becase the Noah/Gortat frontcourt
is a horrible offensive frontcourt. I like Gortat off the bench in his role now, especially if one of them get in foul trouble you can use the other to buy some time. You could probably use them sometimes during the game but starting them and having nothing on the bench is probably a bad deal IMO.
I would love to get RayRay but I don’t see it happening. Pietrus’s only job would be to shoot 3’s, defend and finish on the break. Three things he can do well.
I still would try and move Hinrich if possible.
I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith
could Hinrich plus a future 1st
be enough for a sign n trade for Boozer?
If so, imagine the possibilities….
Rose/PG
Pietrus/SG
LBJ/JJ
Boozer/Taj
Noah/Gortat
I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith
if we got a
Lebron James, obviously who cares.
If we got James, and Ray Allen, even better…..
If we got Joe Johnson and Ray Allen, who cares…
We’d still have the what $24M to spend in this high depth class to get pieces….I think it’s about $23.5M or something, just below the Dirk threshold of year 1 which is just under $24M….but that’s a lot of room.
We can add those pieces through free agency. Too many good players, and we add depth at a key spot here, while losing the best individual player of the bunch (Luol Deng), Deng has no hopes to really be a top 5 SF in the league, though is a legit top 10er and should be for some time….that’s something to give up, but with free agency, even with the dud JJ threw up in atlanta playoffs, he is better at the 3 than Deng….
THough obviously I’d hope we’d wait on Lebron….or maybe get Wade if his FA flop out in Miami.
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
are their contracts shorter?
i dont see why orlando would do this,
speaking of..
The trade was offered by Orlando according to JOHN, per the person who sent me the original message in reply to whomever asked.
the gospel according to JOHN
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 21, 2010 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
They might be looking to make more than one move.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
yep
consolidation of bench for starter
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
…and the Bulls gets worse. This move today is terrible, unless you believe that Pietrus can replace the 18/7 and good defense that Deng provides…and I am not convinced he can.
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
by Dionysus2.0 on Jun 21, 2010 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yep I think this is the central point
Starting lineups win championships. # of players who averaged 15+ mpg in the playoffs for championship teams:
2010 Lakers: six
2009 Lakers: seven
2008 Celtics: six
2007 Spurs: seven
2006 Heat: seven
2005 Spurs: seven
2004 Pistons: five
If we were getting two great bench players for Deng, maybe I’d consider it, but here that’s not the case. Everyone here ripped Hinrich for having an 11.6 PER this year, well Pietrus had an 11.9 PER. And I like Gortat, but he’s never played more than 13.4mpg.
He played 15 in the playoffs.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
And he'd average at least 15 if he wasn't behind the best center in the NBA.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Sure, but low minutes means we don't know how good he is
For example, is he better than Taj? Taj had a 13.8 PER as a 24 year old rookie. Gortat had a 13.9 PER as a 25 year 3rd year player. Both guys have reputations as good defenders.
My guess is Gortat is pretty close to Taj, and Pietrus is equal to Hinrich. I don’t see how that’s worth Deng.
by YaoPau on Jun 21, 2010 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
To be fair, Gortat was sulking this year. He wanted to go to Dallas and got RFA-pwned.
The previous year, he put up a 17 PER as a 24 year old second year player.
2010 Offseason Motto: Get Greedy, Bulls. 1 top FA down (Thibs), 1 (or 2) to go.
by fundamentallysound on Jun 21, 2010 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Gortat's a serviceable 5
and a perhaps pretty good 5, who was a 17.0 PER the year before and was back in the 15 range in the playoffs.
Taj can’t be a 5.
Noah can be a 4.
I think that’s enough.
Gortat’s salary also is always tradeable barring a big knee injury.
And we’ll still have Taj…..but we add depth at a cheap for the market price. A good defensive 5 can go for $8-10M at least (Varejao) and Gortat seems to have a more adept O game than that.
While Varejao’s price tag is high for 6 years, he’s probably worth that today and def holds a market point for similarly skilled players,w hich I’d think from what I’ve seen Gortat is, and yet Gortat’s more a legit 5, than a mostly 4 who can play 5 Anderson Varejao (I do really like Varejao’s garbage game though, he’s really good at what he has, might not look as good post LBJ or in 2 yrs, but for now he’s a good role player).
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
by majoyenrac on Jun 21, 2010 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree.
It only works if the Bulls get LeBron. Which is obviously a huge IF.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
They probably sit on this trade and wait to see what happens.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
Gortat can't be traded until July 13th anyway
because of the offer sheet being matched last year for his Dallas contract.
I think that's wrong, I think they can't trade him to Dallas until then
But they can trade him anywhere else whenever?
After further research
Gortat can’t be traded to Dallas until the 13th, and can’t be traded anywhere else without his consent until that time. I’ve got to believe he’ll agree to any trade that gives him more minutes.
So he can be traded anywhere
Because he doesn’t care if it’s today or the 13th, either way he’d be on whatever that new team is when the season starts.
by Grinder in Training on Jun 22, 2010 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions
Yep Pietrus would be a perfect fit between Rose and Lebron.
All he would have to do is play defense, shoot 3’s and finish on the break. And, he does all 3 of those things well. Plus Gortat would make our frontline huge with Noah, Gibson and Asik coming next year.
Bosh 2010!!!!!
maybe I didn't get the memo...
is it a given that Asik is finally coming over?
gar just said he's going to be in camp
The name of the team is ARIZONA DIAMONDBACKS - "I tried to convince them that what they were doing was an aberration, an imbecility, a stupidity without name"
If we add Lebron though
And rumours are 50/50 for that, then we get under Deng as is.
I think adding Gortat is a huge upgrade over resigning Miller, a HUGE upgrade.
Noah can be a solid 4 in this league or a 5, especially in the run the floor game that Rose seems to be geared towards.
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
I don't know
They get a reliable scorer, consistent scorer, good mid range guy, and a 3/4 to pair with their streakier less D more paid 3/4.
I think they improve with this trade quite a bit. Deng would help them a lot. And while Gortat’s nice for insurance purposes on Howard, Howard plays too much for Gortat to be as valuable to them as he would be for another team.
Pietrus is good when healthy, but hurt all the time, and they’re so close as it is, that this improves a team with limited flexibility (VC, Rashard are gargantuan contracts to trade, and Nelson’s such a good value currently they wouldn’t want to trade) that this helps them be better, filling another consistent scoring need, while keeping the D mentality up.
I think:
Nelson
Carter
Deng
Lewis
Howard
is amongst the best starting 5’s in the game. Deng is a great mid range shooter and he’d get many more open looks with this lineup.
I think it’s a win for Chciago because we get the depth at the 5 spot with Gortat, a value Gortat, and add another wing piece that could be a 2 or a 3 when not hurt in Pietrus).
The difference for Orlando is they are there….we have a ways to go. THis trade helps a there team up their starting lineup. It helps us in that we fill in some roles, while losing a good player who for our team makeup is overpaid, since he’s paid to be the STAR compared to the rest of our payroll, while he’s a really good 3rd option.
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
Too bad a team with Vince Carter will never go anywhere
I think he proved that this year. Plus, Orlando would have an awful lot of money tied up long term for 3-4 players.
They have to try something
They aren’t going to give up 1 year…..more waiting for Vince to expire (or be all but like $4M guaranteed)….and they certainly won’t get equal value for Vince….
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
Why Orlando does this...
Because part of the reason they lost in the playoffs is everyone was chucking up threes.
.
.
.
Loul doesn’t chuck the three
I don't it
The incentive to trade Deng is to clear up some salary this year. This trade does nothing to help out that cause.
Yeah, the contracts are shorter but Deng’s value is worth more than Gortat and Pietrus.
Orlando would be getting the better player in the deal. For what? Just so we don’t have to figure out who plays shooting guard if LeBron James comes?
If Asik really is coming, the need for a backup center drops.
I think Deng could get you a bit more than just depth
by Option27 on Jun 21, 2010 1:03 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
what!?
thats depth! A solid three point shooter/ defender and a proven 7 footer are you crazy? That roster would be insane assuming LeBron signs.
by SoulEater7 on Jun 21, 2010 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's really not that easy to find SF's who could consistantly put up 18 and 7
If you could put your hate for Deng aside for a moment, you might stop overvaluing Gortat.
Pietrus is solid. I do like him but I know how much more valuable Lu is.
by Option27 on Jun 21, 2010 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
it's Deng's contract! he's not that easy to trade.. but who else out there has
playoff/ Finals experience better than those two? I mean yeah i would love a better deal but the Bulls DO need depth and those two fit perfectly. To me. Deng puts up 18 and 7 that great but it’s deceiving. Why are you getting hung up on his stats?
The reason I get hung on them is because they're legit
The guy consistently rebounds, hits shots and plays above average defense. He’s still young as well. The contract is bad but not impossible to trade.
by Option27 on Jun 21, 2010 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Hits shots?
Yeah the worst shot in Basketball. To me it’s about the fit and I think a SF that can spread the floor is more beneficial for Rose than a player like Deng who needs specific plays ran for him to be a factor. So from that standpoint I don’t think stats show the whole picture.
Shooting the ball 2 inches in front of the
3pt line is the worst shot in Basketball.
by Dils on Jun 21, 2010 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
Exactly,
Loul’s game isn’t the 3pt shot, I rather him play toward his strengths, than his weakness
by QUINTEN DALEY on Jun 21, 2010 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Two players are the reason of why the midrange shot isnt dead.MJ and
Rondo are the reasons of why the midrange shot isnt dead…MJ becuae he is one of if not the best midrange shooters back in the day…And Rondo because he is maybe the WORST midrange shooter in the game and he is as open the Grand Canyon and will still miss
by T.Moore on Jun 22, 2010 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
You think he's still taking long twos with SVG as the coach? Not likely.
"Boozer's dumb ass jumped. So I dunked on his ass."-Joakim Noah
by Ozzie Montana on Jun 21, 2010 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions
you still think Noah takes those long twos with Thibs as coach?
…I mean, idk. I was kinda hoping Thibs knew enough about offense to be all, “take a step back you retard.”
Kinda hoping.
A true friend stabs you in the front - Oscar Wilde
He's saying a 17 foot shot in general is a bad shot.
Not that Luol is bad at making it.
by Grinder in Training on Jun 21, 2010 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions
'Worst shot' is a bad arguement, and it's cliche to bring up at this point
Deng can hit threes. If he takes a step back (which Thib will inevitably tell him) his value will automatically increase.
by Stacey_Is_King on Jun 21, 2010 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions
I hear ya
But I’m just going by what the guy has done after what 5 years in the league? Hell if the guy hasn’t learned by now to step back a foot, I’d hate to think that it was Thibs who had the Magic formula to make him do it after all this time.
I think the reason he steps in to shoot is because that’s the shot he truly feels better taking. I remember when he first came in the league he tried shooting 3s and wasn’t that great at it. Then he stepped in and made that long 2 consistently. Im not sure it’s as simple as just stepping back for him.
Also it’s not just a cliche. If the guy isn’t a true threat to get and extra point per a shot attempt, teams are going to defend you differently. After all, what’s the point and benefit in stopping a guy from taking a lower % 2 pt shot as opposed to defending him differently against the reward of a 3 pt shot?
Skiles told him to step up
And for that year it made him a much better player than the year before. He shot 26% the year before he stopped shooting them, and his range has increased since then. Seeing how he shot 38% last year and took 4 times as many as the year before, I don’t see any reason to believe it’ll take “magic” for him to again increase his output as he now knows he can hit them.
I don’t buy teams defending him differently either. Teams didn’t want Luol to take the long 2 because they know he can make it consistently. Teams only give you shots they think you can make, or are a lot less efficient than you’re usual shot which they’re trying to stop. It’s no more beneficial to a team to give Luol an open long 2 than it is to give Rose an open driving lane. Teams are not in the business of giving up sure 2 pointers and then congratulating themselves that it was not a 3.
by runningman on Jun 21, 2010 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
You can keep that 18 and 7
If the guy can’t dribble or help spread the floor. Pietrus can at be a legit threat on the outside and correct me if I’m mistaken, can play some decent defense. Then you get Gortat to??!! Yeah that deal would be done regardless if Lebron comes here.
It may be easier to luck out in the draft
And get a more athletic 3 that can put pressure to get a 25-5. And with Rose’s explosivity that pressure for a more consistent O scoring, would outweigh Deng’s D…..
But obv it’s better if we got Lebron.
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
Well the assuming Lebron signs is key
I wouldn’t pull the trigger on this trade without Lebron in fold.
Brad Miller is god.
by Poloplaya14 on Jun 21, 2010 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
no, not it wouldn't
It’s a horrible team without James.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
I wouldn't say horrible.
I think that team + our draft pick and Thibs is at least as good as this year’s team was, which is about a 5 or 6 seed(if Noah’s foot doesn’t get hurt.)
I don't see it.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
What, you don't think Pietrus/Gortat/Thibs
and improvements from Rose, Noah and Tah won’t (at the very least) make up for the loss of Deng? Last year’s team was set for the fifth seed until Noah’s foot forced him out for a whole bunch of games. Even if the team stays as is I’d say we’d be better than last year. By no means would we bo, as you said, horrible.
The hell are you talking about?
It’s nowhere near that.
by Stacey_Is_King on Jun 21, 2010 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions
The Bulls add two rotation players for the cost of one starter. For a team that only has 6 players under contract, that's valuable.
Spreading Deng’s 11 million over 2 productive players rather than one is a win. And since the Bulls are looking at possibly adding LeBron, Deng is superfluous. If they don’t get LeBron, then Pietrus plays some 3 and hopefully they sign another SF in the offseason.
2010 Offseason Motto: Get Greedy, Bulls. 1 top FA down (Thibs), 1 (or 2) to go.
by fundamentallysound on Jun 21, 2010 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
1) James Johnson is absolutely horrible
That whole LeBron thing is a HUGE if. I would definitely not feel comfortable having Pietrus and Johnson split the 3.
2) How about spreading his 11 million over free agents they might be able to just sign outright?
Which is why I said they'd have to sign another SF if LeBron spurned them.
Basically, I think this is a good deal if LeBron is coming. If he’s not coming, then it’s a pretty damaging deal because it creates a glaring hole on the roster.
2010 Offseason Motto: Get Greedy, Bulls. 1 top FA down (Thibs), 1 (or 2) to go.
by fundamentallysound on Jun 21, 2010 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah... but you can only put 5 players on the court at once
and in the playoffs Deng can give you 40mpg by himself. If you think Gortat/Noah is a significant improvement over Noah/Taj, pull the trigger, as Gortat’s contrat is awesome. If not, this doesn’t help us.
Deng gives you 40 mpg or maybe he gives you zero, since his legs might be broken.
And I think the Bulls need to shake things up. I also think Gortat is a more valuable asset than Deng, because of his contract.
Plus, if this deal gets done, I think it sends a clear signal to LeBron. We’re working to get you the best supporting cast possible. What’s Cleveland doing?
With Gortat and Noah, he’d have two bigs that are better than any of the bigs he’s got in Cleveland (and yes, I know Andy Varejao is fuming right now), plus Taj.
2010 Offseason Motto: Get Greedy, Bulls. 1 top FA down (Thibs), 1 (or 2) to go.
by fundamentallysound on Jun 21, 2010 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think the exact opposite
I think this isn’t what LeBron would want to hear.
I think joining a core of Rose, Noah and Deng sounds a lot better than Rose, Noah, Pietrus and Gortat
Yeah, but
would LeBron want to play the 4?
"Deng is fired" - Neil Funk
by RogersPark Kris on Jun 21, 2010 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions
So you're assuming that
Lebron, the best player in basketball, wants to switch from his natural position and the one he’s had the most success in.
I’m going to assume that he wants to stay a SF, and in that scenario, a core that includes Deng is not the most attractive one for him.
That's not the question
The question is “why would he want to”? He could play the 2 or the 4 in Cleveland, but is playing the 3. What makes you think his position isn’t, “I’m the best player in basketball, if some other player plays my position, they should move.”
by runningman on Jun 21, 2010 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
have you followed the saga?
what makes you think his real #1 is that he wants to win championships?
if that were really everyone’s goal like they claimed it is, everyone would take a paycut and go to the same team.
A true friend stabs you in the front - Oscar Wilde
Egh, I don't know about that. I think Rose and Noah are the draws. The other guys are important only insofar
as they fit with LeBron. But that’s really just my opinion.
2010 Offseason Motto: Get Greedy, Bulls. 1 top FA down (Thibs), 1 (or 2) to go.
by fundamentallysound on Jun 21, 2010 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions
i don't think Lebron sees Deng as a draw. more like a guy they have to get
rid of to make room for the king
by Basketball Smurf on Jun 21, 2010 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions
precisely
I think joining a core of Rose, Noah and Deng sounds a lot better than Rose, Noah, Pietrus and Gortat
The name of the team is ARIZONA DIAMONDBACKS
You gotta take that chance though, no?
Trading away production for health is a road to the middle. When the goal is to become the #1 team out of 30, you take injury prone studs over healthy semistars. If they get hurt, at least you gave yourself a shot. Depth is overrated.
I suppose. But in this situation, LeBron is the stud. Deng is expendable to add pieces that fit with LeBron.
Deng and LeBron aren’t the greatest fit together.
2010 Offseason Motto: Get Greedy, Bulls. 1 top FA down (Thibs), 1 (or 2) to go.
by fundamentallysound on Jun 21, 2010 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Deng isn't expendable
until you get Lebron, you don’t get Lebron, you don’t make this trade.
by QUINTEN DALEY on Jun 21, 2010 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Is Taj in the trade?
I didn’t see that, but I could be wrong.
I think a Gortat/Noah/Taj trio is FAR BETTER than a Noah/Taj/? or even Noah/Taj/1 yr older Brad Miller if we use that cap money post max player on Brad Miller (which I’d rather reserve for a shooter like Ray Ray or Morrow, etc).
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
Getting Gortat allows you to make Asik available in trades for guys like Bosh.
Or you could see if you could make this deal a 3 teamer and swing Gortat to the Raptors for Bosh.
2010 Offseason Motto: Get Greedy, Bulls. 1 top FA down (Thibs), 1 (or 2) to go.
by fundamentallysound on Jun 21, 2010 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Right. That's my hope.
This makes Asik available for a trade which he could hopefully be paired with Hinrich to make him movable. But for what?
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
based on international play,
Asik > Gortat.
Based on scouting reports,
Asik > Gortat.
Gortat is a good big man who can play defense who’s a slow learner with low basketball IQ and can’t play big minutes. He has little to no offensive ability, but has very good size / weight / athleticism, and has very much reached his potential.
Asik is a good big man who can play defense who’s a quick learning, has more offensive ability than Gortat and hasn’t nearly reached potential, but would get devoured by size in the NBA in terms of weight. He isn’t nearly as athletic as Gortat, but he shows a lot of effort.
Now, maybe based on that, you prefer Gortat. Based on the scouting reports I’ve read on Asik and what I’ve watched from Gortat… give me Asik.
A true friend stabs you in the front - Oscar Wilde
bah, get off the "big minutes" thing
that’s annoying and ignorant.
He’s playing behind the best and most durable center in the league. It’s just too bad that both he and Howard are both “pure centers” on offense.
And at the PF spot, they have a meh player with a huge contract that needs justified.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
I realize that.
But I also think you’re quite unrealistically expecting his production to just multiply by however much more he plays per game.
Not only that, but you failed to address my other concerns with Gortat.
If so, Taj was a rookie this year.
Let’s compare Taj’s rookie stats to, oh say… Chris Bosh’s. and Gortat’s this past year.
Taj: 9 PPG, 26.9 MPG, .494 FG%, 7.5 RPG, .9 BPG.
Gortat: 3.6 PPG, 13.4 MPG, .533 FG%, 4.5 RPG, .9 BPG.
let’s even do some math. Assume Gorat magically keeps the exact same pace by playing 26.9 MPG (not too much of a stretch as its still not 30+ MPG.) But let’s use math to do this. 26.9 / 13.4 = 2.007 times more. So let’s just call it 2. Let’s just double it and say Gortat plays 26.8 MPG.
Gortat gets 9 Rebounds to Taj’s 7.5, and gets 1.8 Blocks to Taj’s .9, and gets 7.2 to Taj’s 9.
That’s Gortat after 3 years in the NBA.
Taj was a rookie.
Now, I realize your PF comment is towards the Magic, but my point is:
Gortat wouldn’t get anything more than Brad Miller’s minutes. He wouldn’t cut into Noah’s, as (assuming even a tad of development) he won’t be an improvement over Taj at PF (and, in rebounding, would probably be worse.)
So let’s do the same minutes multiplication thing to see what Gortat’s stats would be with Brad Miller’s 23.8 MPG.
Miller’s 23.8 over Gortat’s 13.4 = 1.78
multiply Gortat’s stats by 1.77, you get
6.372 PPG, 7.965 RPG, 1.593 BPG.
Brad Miller this past year, off the same 23.8 MPG, got:
8.8 PPG (better than Gortat’s)
4.9 RPG (worse than Gortat’s)
.4 BPG (worse than Gortat’s)
obviously, I’m not saying Gortat is worse than Brad Miller.
I am, however, saying is getting rid of the potential value of trading Deng really simply and totally mount to scoring 2 less points, getting 3 more rebounds, and getting another block every game?
If there’s any value in this trade, its not Gortat. It’s in Pietrus.
I’ll make this trade the day Lebron signs.
Until then, it’s not worth it. And to trade Deng away on the presumption that we’re just a shoe-in to get Lebron is dangerous.
People are always yapping here “imagine how this new FA or that traded player is going to improve under Thibs!”
Yes, well, our players should improve under Thibs, too. Maybe Thibs won’t be great at making adjustments, I don’t know. I do know he’ll be better at developing & improving players than the AIDS virus that was Vinny Del Negro.
Basically, my point is, Gortat’s not that good and his value isn’t that much more.
Do you think signing Asik would be an improvement to signing Brad Miller? I do, maybe you don’t.
But if you do, then why do you think Gortat is so lightyears ahead of Asik? Why is Gortat so valuable, because he looks so average in 13 minutes a game?
Chris Bosh’s rookie year:
11.5 PPG, 33.5 MPG, .459 FG%, 7.4 RPG, 1.4 BPG.
Now, Bosh got more minutes. Let’s say he played less his rookie year.
26.9 / 33.5 = .8029. Let’s just go ahead and multiply everything Bosh did his rookie year by .8, to (using your logic) see how Bosh’s rookie year compares to Taj’s if they supposedly played the same minutes.
9.2 PPG vs Taj’s 9 PPG
5.92 RPG vs Taj’s 7.5 RPG
1.12 BPG vs Taj’s .9 BPG.
now, am I saying Taj is the next Chris Bosh?
….no. No, not at all.
I’m saying Taj is a rookie with very good potential to become a decent-to-good starter in the NBA.
A true friend stabs you in the front - Oscar Wilde
I do know he’ll be better at developing & improving players than the AIDS virus that was Vinny Del Negro.
lol, thats mean
did you enjoy watching or hearing him coach?
end of argument.
A true friend stabs you in the front - Oscar Wilde
And totally ignorant
We got major improvement from Noah under Vinny, Rose under Vinny, Taj Gibson under Vinny and by year end it looked like James Johnson actually may have a spark to play a bit someday in the NBA, when he looked beyond lost at the start of the year.
It’s not like Larry Brown got a ton from Tyrus Thomas post trade, and Tyrus is the only young guy that Vinny didn’t develop.
Deng’s been Deng really since his second year….unfortunately. Hinrich disappeared 3 years ago (from what he was)….
I hate that ignorant Vinny didn’t develop comment. It’s the stupid org that left him to dry by trading his best piece before the start of this year that caused us to stay the same. THe fact we stayed essentially at the same level without our what was #1 player and would hav ebeen #2 player thi syear and battled all the injuries is something…. (injuries negating the post trade last year Bulls) THat doesn’t even count how mgmt threw the towel in at the trade deadline trading Salmons for pretty much crap (though I still oddly like Warrick as a 7th-8th man, we had him as our what should have been 6th man with our serious lack of depth)……
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
You have no way to prove that VDN was responsible for the development of the players, and not the players themselves nor the other coaches.
And while I have no proof one way or the other (who does?), I can tell you Vinny Del Negro was horrible as an X & Os coach and didn’t ever offer much as a player. The only time we won games was when players seemed to want it more, and maybe you can say VDN was a great motivator, and maybe he was – but if a coach couldn’t play D, and couldn’t coach D, how did he teach anyone to play D?
If a coach couldn’t drive well, and couldn’t coach well, how did he teach someone to drive?
I put all of our player development this past year, on the players.
It’s not arrogant to have this assessment. Vinny Del Negro never showed much of anything to make me respect him at all. Why should I start now? because you think I should so we, according to RealGM’s very own “John” (JESUS WHY ARE WE EVEN DISCUSSING IT THIS IN DEPTH) make a bad trade?
I’m out.
A true friend stabs you in the front - Oscar Wilde
You have no way to prove he wasn't
Why do most coaches not named VDN get that credit, where VDN gets nothing.
Makes no sense and is hypocritical.
How many good coaches were great players? Skiles (had what 2 years of good 6th man ball), Phil Jackson was a good off the bench player. Byron Scott was decent starter but not a star. ETC ETC ETC.
Our D went from what amongst the worst in the league the year before to a time befor ehte 10 game losing streak the top DFG% team in the league this year…..
We had Vinny as a 2 year rental waiting for this summer, that’s all, he was scapegoated out of here after I think he did better than mgmt thought he would. Problem is he doesn’t have the name brand that we’d like enough to lure a max guy. Thibs does after his Celtics run, and has the price tag Jerry loves to boot.
I don’t care if you don’t respect him. Vinny coached us twice into the playoffs, taking a team that had Nocioni hobblingo n one leg and losing all of his former athleticism, Drew Gooden playing, Larry Hughes a huge distraction. He got his first legit team and we were GOOD 2 years ago with his direction……and then we traded his chip (Ben Gordon) and he had to try to reinvent the team with less talent.
Then we seemed to find a basic rythym and we traded Salmons again for less depth and had the injuries creep up and still won what 10 of 13 to get into the playoffs, playing hard all the way.
There’s enough there that Vinny def didn’t deserve the crap that the front office pulled, just because he was always a guinea pig holding pattern because we weren’t going to win the last 2 years while we waited for this summer and Jerry didn’t watnt to pay D’Antoni $10-12M for those 2 years to lose in waiting….so we paid Vinny what $2.5M over that 2 year stretch to what we thought was lose, but had some success….then gave him $1.5M to walk away…..and fulfill JR’s plan.
Reinsdorf is smart in that way, always has been.
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
They were young, they played a lot of minutes.
those are the two biggest factors in getting better.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Either way
There’s zero evidence to say that Vinny was bad at developing players.
Exactly
Tyrus was young, so was Adam Morrison, so was Bargnani, so was Kwame Brown….
A lot of young guys who play a lot of minutes don’t always get it. I know Tyrus didn’t each year get as many minutes as we would have liked, but overall he got a lot of minutes and still does some of the same things….
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
And he also got better every year.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
I don't even know what that means.
You win.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
It means
Tyrus hasn’t gotten all that much better…it’s not like he went from Adam Morrison to Lebron James, he was decent as a rookie and he’s still decent, a good off the bench PF with still the potential to be more but still not showing enough to be a legit 4 in this league….unfrotunately despite that athleticism.
And I’m not arguing per se, there is no winning.
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
The problem, he
hasn’t fully embraced playing PF, he wants to be a SF, but his skills and ability are best suited for him to play PF
by QUINTEN DALEY on Jun 22, 2010 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions
so like a BAB discussion to completely ignore the entire point because someone wants to attack or defend someone else.
A true friend stabs you in the front - Oscar Wilde
Are you trying to set a record for most times a person can bitch and moan in one thread?
He may not be married, but he's got plenty of Thibo-hoes.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 21, 2010 7:00 PM CDT up reply actions
no
I’m trying to encourage an intelligent response.
A true friend stabs you in the front - Oscar Wilde
What's intelligent with that
You brought up VDN as an AIDS virus man…
I rest my case.
You couldn’t refute my claim so you pull the “intelligence” card which makes you out as childish.
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
you're still doing a good job to dispute a claim out of context.
Ignoring all the points that I brought up to the real discussion here to analyze how shitty Del Negro was as a coach.
“I rest my case.
You couldn’t listen, so you pulled the “arrogant” card which makes you childish."
A true friend stabs you in the front - Oscar Wilde
Your trump card
On the Taj argument was that Vinny couldn’t develop him and that’s another key reason why Taj is so much better than Gortat.
Then you get called out on that, and many of your other points and decide to try to go philosophical and say that I’m childish for arguing with you or whatever claim you try to make.
Look the case in point, Taj can’t play the 5, we need a backup 5. Taj is still on board, we add depth.
Gortat’s not gonna turn us into champions, but he fills a need for a good big man that would probably cost us $7-8M on the open market, for $5M, and on top of that that $7-8M we’d have to use ont he open market would be more than we can afford after the max free agent signing.
Having Gortat on board would help shore up time at the 5 for a full 48 minutes, which we desperately need. He’s a big improvement over last year’s version of Brad Miller, who’s just getting older, and on top of that leaves us room to get a max guy and spend the $5-6M on hopefully a shooter….
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
Why do most coaches not named VDN get that credit, where VDN gets nothing.
Because VDN sucks. He has very limited basketball sense. He can’t utilize players fully, so what would make you think he knows how to develop them? When a coach has NO offensive idea/scheme, and has 3 plays, I refuse to entertain the thought that he was responsible for Noah putting on muscle and learning a hook shot.
You’re trying ti make it seem like VDN was some kind of hero who brought us through adversity, but he didn’t. Rose and Noah carried us, VDN was just along for the ride. We’re a good defensive team because we have good defensive players, not because VDN looked at tape and preached a new defensive philosophy.
by Stacey_Is_King on Jun 21, 2010 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not trying to make Vinny into anything
I’m merely stating that this Vinny was the worst coach to ever coach thing makes little sense in terms of the success he had with the crap his mgmt left him with. We had no reason getting near the playoffs this year even in the East with the major injuries, the fact that mgmt made this year a garbage year while we wait for 2010 FA and made that clear with the BG for nothing trade.
Vinny did fine and did everything the team wanted of him.
THe only time we had a legitimate 7 man roster (post trade 2008-2009) we actually looked halfway decent and I’d argue that team was as strong if not stronger than the 2006-2007 team that won us 49 games and were poised by the experts to do more…..I actually think post trade we were stronger and right away Vinny helped integrate them smoothly.
Integrating players isn’t as easy as it sounds or so it seems
(see Cleveland, etc)….
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
Vinny's not the worse coach ever. Anyone who states that is merely basing that off of memories of failed out-of-timeout plays.
However, this idea that because Vinny didn’t cause the team to totally tank is not something that makes him a good coach, or even an average coach. The fact is, the Bulls were mediocre, lost games they should’ve won, and finished with a mediocre record. Did we have more potential? Sure. But I think we did what we did in spite of VDN, not because of him.
by Stacey_Is_King on Jun 22, 2010 1:00 AM CDT up reply actions
Worst coach ever is obviously a strong statement
To earn that title you need to be bad at every aspect of coaching. Vinny was at the very least a good motivator, which spares him from being at the absolute bottom of the barrel.
That said, he was definitively bad. We were a bottom 5 offensive team this past year, if you go by ORtg. That’s inexcusable for a team with a player of Derrick Rose’s caliber on it. And it’s not like we were completely devoid of surrounding talent either. Deng is a top 10 SF. We were also loaded with capable passers; Miller and Noah are two of the best passing big men in the game, and we essentially started 2 PGs. The pieces were in place to instill some elaborate offensive system but Vinny’s system was nevertheless about as simplistic as they come. He was also inexcusably terrible at drawing up plays during timeouts.
Brad Miller is god.
I should have put
quotes on the “worst coach ever” comment, I was exaggerating, but really it’s not that far off.
It’s miraculous that we got to 41 wins this year with the injuries and with the mgmt essentially saying coming in that this year means nothing we’re waiting to bring in a guy that’s better than any of you next year…..
I feel motivating these young millionaire athletes to play hard through adversity and stick together is a big skill, and is something Vinny excelled at and therefore think he was fine as a coach.
The team wasn’t built well enough to implement a solid all around game, with zilch in the post O game, and pretty much nothing in the 3 ball game either….
The fact that our D which was the biggest complaint the year before, climbed back to it’s Skilesian DFG% levels shows that Vinny took the org criticism to heart and managed this team.
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
oh, when majo feels slighted he/she doesn't stop
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
And you do?
I’m not feeling slighted.
I am merely wondering why he/she went the route of saying I was childish when he couldn’t respond to my points….that’s all.
Stay out of it.
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
I thought this piece of the thread
was on the dan3…piece….not anyting Polo or Stacey said.
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
Gortat's
Played in the NBA, Asik has not.
Asik from what I’ve read mostly from Sam Smith is not yet ready. Asik also hasn’t touched a bball. I mean remember Yi Jianlian was supposed to be amazing….., Bargnani was suposed to be a younger, perhaps better O version of Dirk, who was more ready to come to the NBA….and while not international the stache (Adam Morrison) was a lock to be Larry Bird-esque on offense with a need to work on his D….Darko Milcic was a can’t miss prospect big.
None of those are what they were “scouted” at.
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
While this is true to an extent,
Adam Morrison was on his way to doing some of that until he blew out his knee and there-in lost all speed, ability, and confidence.
Darko Milicic was not considered a can’t miss big.
He never played more than 20 minutes per game elsewhere, he was considered a quick learner with athleticism and size who was well on his way. He was never interested in basketball. Omer Asik sure seems to be.
Did you read Bargnani’s scouting report, or just watch ESPN when he was drafted?
From the same website I’ve used several other times:
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Andrea-Bargnani-154/
back from before he was drafted:
“His main asset is also his biggest problem: while his versatility makes him a potentially very unique prospect in a positive way in the long run, it’s also difficult to immediately project him at one specific position in the NBA. At some point he will have to decide between the small forward and power forward positions, but he will have his weaknesses playing at both, especially defensively.
Because he’s probably still not done growing (rumored to have grown as much as two inches over the last year), his body still isn’t mature at this point and he is right now lacking in bulk.
That means that in the NBA he will most likely play as a small forward on offense, but he will probably have trouble finishing at the rim after beating his man off the dribble because of his lack of strength and only average use of his off hand. He has no post game at this point and lacks the lower body strength to play near the basket.
On defense there’s no way he can guard NBA small forwards, as he discovered during the 2004 Hoop Summit when he was unable to slow down the much quicker Josh Smith. His lack of bulk will make him a huge liability early on defensively and on the glass, where he’s very active, but lacks the positioning and physical ability to box out. This will likely all come with time, considering how much he has improved his rebounding during the season, but how long will the team who drafts him want to wait?"
….
" he is almost a sure-fire lottery pick, maybe even top five, and while that is a very hard thing to turn down, Bargnani and his people appear to be more concerned with the team he gets drafted by and the situation he will fall in."
1. basketball was not his #1.
2. he was never supposed to be “the next Dirk”, his style of play just lightly resembled (and resembles) Dirk.
am I saying Asik is going to be an all star, or automatically make it, or any of that? no.
I am saying no where am I claiming Omer Asik to be much more than Omer Asik,
and that Omer Asik is about the same quality right now as Gartot is.
So where’s the benefit?
A true friend stabs you in the front - Oscar Wilde
I remember
There were posts all over ESPN and in Hollinger (pre ESPN) stuff then that Adam Morrison was perhaps the least efficient O scorer in league history…..
He was a long ways away, the Bobcats/MJ were trying to get him comfortable out there since they wasted such a high pick on him,.
He posted a 7.9 PER for almost 30 minutes per game as a rookie…..he wasn’t going to get any better
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
He had the amount of potential for the pick he was drafted
and then he blew his knee. That’s all I’m saying. I thank you again for ignoring all of my points to change topics.
A true friend stabs you in the front - Oscar Wilde
All I'm saying
Is as a rookie BEFORE he blew out his knee he had one of the worst ever efficiencies as a major minute starter in league history….
I am refuting what you’re saying….that’s what I’m saying.
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
as a Rookie he get less than 30 minutes per game
and still averaged more PPG than Chris Bosh’s rookie season, Scottie Pippen’s rookie season (although in fairness his PER is probably higher because Scottie only got 20 MPG his rookie year), more PPG than Dwight Howard’s rookie season, and there’s a bunch of other examples that I could look up but don’t feel like at 8 AM.
Adam Morrison wasn’t too far behind a REALISTIC projection of what his rookie season should’ve been.
Worst efficiencies as a major minute starter?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=morriad01&y1=2007
as for as his stats go per 36 minutes, that’s about average for starters in the NBA, let alone in their rookie year.
A true friend stabs you in the front - Oscar Wilde
Yeah
Points are everything, woo.
He shot under 38% from the field, got 12.1 FGA up every game, was routinely murdered by his direct opponent defensively had almost a 1 to 1 assist to turnover ratio…but he scored 11.8 PPG playing mostly in garbage games since the ’Cats were awful, and was routinely known as a mistake pick by late his rookie year….
But if you want to keep arguing your point, go ahead.
Bosh scored 11.5 PPG, but shot 46% from the field, 26% from 3 (both much better than the stache) and pulled in 7 boards and could play a bit of D and showed real potential for more plus was what should have been a sophomore in college…
Why you’d think to compare Adam Morrison in the pro’s to Bosh is beyond me.
Give it up, your point doesn’t make sense here. It happens.
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
PER's don't magically go up because someone gets less time.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Darko Milicic
was considered a can’t miss big. That’s why he want 2nd in a loaded draft over a guy like Carmelo who everyone was also very high on.
Asik is nowhere as good as you’re making him out to be. He has no offensive game, and his stock has actually dropped in the last 2 years as he’s been injured and failed to improve on the offensive side.
"how good I'm making Asik out to be"?
I’m making him about to be the 13 mpg player Gortat is now. You really don’t think he’s capable of that?
Darko wasn’t considered can’t miss. The Pistons were considered a complete team, and Darko had the biggest upside – not necessarily “can’t miss upside”, but the biggest upside. I remember it. I remember people not liking it, I remember people liking it, I remember some analysts hating it, I remember some loving it. It wasn’t considered a can’t miss.
A true friend stabs you in the front - Oscar Wilde
Dude
Gortat’s a 13 MPG becuase he plays behind the best C int he league who’s never out….and the few times he has been out Gortat has really stepped up. He’s thought so highly that he got a full MLE offer from Dallas who was poised to make him their starter, using what little free cap they had, and ultimately the cap starved Magic who don’t really need him signed him to further their contract mess…..why, not because he’s got potential to maybe be good in the NBA if he plays, no because he already is good and will be tradable soon should they need to do so….
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
Gortat isn't worth more than 15 MPG.
And for that, you and I just disagree. I’ve seen many games within him in it over the year. They disagree with you. I’ve looked at the statistics. They disagree with you. I’ve heard his nickname. It agrees with you.
I’m out.
A true friend stabs you in the front - Oscar Wilde
Who's the "they"
And I’m not polish nor do I care about nicknames.
Gortat’s a 5, we need at LEAST a backup 5, and Gortat is better than current Brad Miller.
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
Must you finish every post with "Period." or "End of Story" or "I'm out."?
Because clearly it isn’t the “end of the story” and you’re obviously not “out” and I haven’t seen you win any argument to the point where you can say “Period” as if you’re clearly correct in your rebuttal.
He may not be married, but he's got plenty of Thibo-hoes.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 22, 2010 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
Thats what he
does, just like my SHUT DOWN THE CARTER, thats what I do.
by QUINTEN DALEY on Jun 22, 2010 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions
It's weak.
You should do something else.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
by tyger1147 on Jun 22, 2010 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Good point
I hadn’t even considered….
I think at minimum it also saves money for a shooter that we would be forced to spend on a backup 5, which typically aren’t cheap, and it seems the only inside guy we’ve got is Brad Miller, who’s not anywhere near where he used to be these days and that’s these days not next year’s these days.
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
Yup. Because Gortat is the exact type of big Toronto needs to put next to Bargs.
Let's sign LeBron and dance our way to the NBA championship. It'll be so crazy!
Gortat and Pietrus
Are probably both easier to move than Deng.
by Grinder in Training on Jun 21, 2010 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions
But what will you move those two
guys for?
by QUINTEN DALEY on Jun 21, 2010 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Whatever you want...
I don’t like coming up with fake trades.. it’s pointless. But the fact is, both of those guys would be pretty easy to move for whatever purpose you have. Right now our concern is that it’s hard to move Deng. It’s not hard to move these smaller contracts.
by Grinder in Training on Jun 21, 2010 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions
do it do it
deng is better than P..but P stays more healthy and somehow he looks like one of those “I dont play good in the reg season, but put me in the playoffs and you’ll be a happy fan” type players
plus gorat would be a good back up for noah
Ron Artest. If he can do it - so can you son.
If they can deal Kirk's deal for cap space than I'd for sure do it.
If they can’t deal Kirk than this is a tougher call.
Love this trade
Defensively, the Bulls would be insane (Thibs must be drooling at the possibilities).
I assume this trade only happens if the Bulls sign LeBron.
It sounds like the most realistic best case scenario for the Bulls since it would be damn near impossible to sign James and Bosh.
"Deng is fired" - Neil Funk
by RogersPark Kris on Jun 21, 2010 1:11 PM CDT reply actions
I'd expect a Hinrich + Asik + draft pick to move up somehow on draft day.
You’d be pinning all your hopes on James, though.
Although I don’t know who would take him.
Hinrich + Asik + #17 for T.J. Ford and #10? Draft Henry or George.
Rose – Ford
Pietrus – Henry
?? – James Johnson
Gibson – ???
Noah – Gortat
Ugh. I don’t know. Try to get one of the Pacers 2nd rounders and draft an offensive, athletic four??? Get lucky with someone like Derick Caracter or Charles Garcia.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
And if you're the luckiest of luckies...
…you somehow free up enough space to get Lee.
Rose – Henry – James – Lee – Noah
w/ Pietrus – Gibson – Gortat backing up (and some random PG)
is a force in 3 years. Dominating.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
I love this trade
Gives us a 3 point shooter and a great defender in Pietrus. And Gortat is decent on both ends of the floor and I think Noah and him could play 4-5 together. It does leave a big hole in the 3 if we strike out on Lebron, but through the draft or FA we may be able to fill that hole.
Given all of the supposed tampering that's happening,
would this trade going down be the biggest indication so far that we’re getting LeBron?
Yes.
I would think so.. you don’t do this trade unless you have a superior SF coming in. Only one SF free agent fits that bill.
by Grinder in Training on Jun 21, 2010 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Rudy Gay<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Deng
by QUINTEN DALEY on Jun 22, 2010 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions
If this happens (and I would be sooo happy if it did)
I say start Gortat and keep Asik if he comes here. This way, Noah can play his normal position at PF. Of course, this is all only possible if we keep LeBron, then the trade is pointless.
Rose/Hinrich
Draft Pick/Pietrus or FA?
LBJ/Pietrus/JJ
Noah/Taj/JJ
Gortat/Asik/Brad Miller!
Oooh, this roster makes me feel good.
"What the fuck man?! GAD DAYUM!" -Ben Gordon, after being fouled by Chris Bosh, with no call.
Come back home, Ben.
Oops, not pointless
but it makes me a little more nervous w/o LBJ, of course.
"What the fuck man?! GAD DAYUM!" -Ben Gordon, after being fouled by Chris Bosh, with no call.
Come back home, Ben.
Yeah, he's played center his whole career, but somehow he's naturally a PF? I don't get it.
2010 Offseason Motto: Get Greedy, Bulls. 1 top FA down (Thibs), 1 (or 2) to go.
by fundamentallysound on Jun 21, 2010 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Whatever
the fucking point is Noah can play PF while Gortat can play center. That’s a great defensive front court.
"What the fuck man?! GAD DAYUM!" -Ben Gordon, after being fouled by Chris Bosh, with no call.
Come back home, Ben.
And a pretty miserable offensive front court.
2010 Offseason Motto: Get Greedy, Bulls. 1 top FA down (Thibs), 1 (or 2) to go.
by fundamentallysound on Jun 21, 2010 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
...but no more miserable than last year's front court.
2010 Offseason Motto: Get Greedy, Bulls. 1 top FA down (Thibs), 1 (or 2) to go.
by fundamentallysound on Jun 21, 2010 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Right
but I think you can live with the poor offense with them if you have LeBron.
"What the fuck man?! GAD DAYUM!" -Ben Gordon, after being fouled by Chris Bosh, with no call.
Come back home, Ben.
Probably true.
2010 Offseason Motto: Get Greedy, Bulls. 1 top FA down (Thibs), 1 (or 2) to go.
by fundamentallysound on Jun 21, 2010 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions
But two bigs w/o
good post games = lane clogging.
by QUINTEN DALEY on Jun 21, 2010 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions
for stretches anyway.
I don’t know if you want it as your starting lineup.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
You're one of those people who assumes because of his size, Noah would be better at PF.
He wouldn’t. They’re totally different positions, and you’d see a decline in his game at PF.
On paper, or in NBA Live, or something, sure, that works.
In reality, that’s not very well-balanced team, nor a very well thought out one.
A true friend stabs you in the front - Oscar Wilde
of course it is
you couldnt play Noah at PF in 2k!
by regui8er on Jun 21, 2010 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Noah has the quickness to play some great help D and, paired with Gortat, could give Thibs
a poor man’s version of the KG-Perkins defensive combo. Perkins and Gortat had some pretty similar numbers this season. Still, I’d hate to see the Bulls give up Deng for the equivalent of Kendrick Perkins and a bench caliber wing.
It will be found an unjust and unwise jealousy to deprive a man of his natural liberty upon the supposition he may abuse it.
George Washington
Gortat isn't a step up from Gibson and Pietrus isn't a step up from Deng.
The purpose of this trade is to add some depth.
It does do that. For that reason, if Lebron comes to this team, I do kinda support it.
As a trade as whole, I don’t see why we would want it.
Look at my post at the bottom of the page for why I believe Deng > Pietrus and Taj > Gortat.
A true friend stabs you in the front - Oscar Wilde
I think Noah could definitely be a PF, provided the C next to him can knock down a mid-range jumper
Defensively he probably matches up better against PFs, to be honest. The problem with him and Gortat in at the same time is that neither has range out to 12+ feet from the basket.
Brad Miller is god.
transition offense, which is big for him at the moment
it’s easier for him to take advantage of his speed against the slower 5s. i contend the bulls lost that aspect somewhat when miller and he were on court together.
The name of the team is ARIZONA DIAMONDBACKS
I looked for any numbers that agreed or disproved that
Because I certainly didn’t notice it on the court.
What I did find is Noah’s production by position on 82games.
From what I can see, there’s a significant difference whether he was at PF or C.
THey've been scouting him as a PF his career
All the experts keep saying he is more an ideal PF next to a solid big man. He played really well next to Brad Miller the last 2 years. He’s a 4/5.
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
Pretty solid deal if everyone just assumes LeBron James is a Bull in two weeks. I don't.
Pietrus and Gortat are solid, but hardly anything to go bananas over. Pietrus is every bit the jumpshooter as Deng, only difference is he had coaches who told him to put those feet behind the line. A Gortat/Noah pairing is certainly better than Noah/Taj, but doing this trade and striking out on a big FA sets this team back. Still, it’s a risk worth taking.
"Boozer's dumb ass jumped. So I dunked on his ass."-Joakim Noah
by Ozzie Montana on Jun 21, 2010 2:23 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I made a point elsewhere...
Is Gortat/Noah better than Taj/Noah? Assume Noah grows at all, and there’s not that big of a difference.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tiny.cgi?id=dKHdP
Taj isn’t that far behind, and he was a Rookie. Gortat’s had 3 seasons to improve at that, and I largely believe he’s very nearly reached full potential.
My question is, you say Pietrus is every bit the jumpshooter as Deng.
Is Deng every bit the jumpshooter as Pietrus?
Deng is a better 3 point shooter, a better defender, a better free throw shooter, and a better rebounder.
Pietrus takes more 3 point attempts.
so….
….where is the value in this trade, other than freeing up cap space, which this doesn’t really do?
Deng: 10,365,000 / 5 years
Pietrus 5,300,000 / 2 years
Gartot 5,854,000 / 5 years
so that actually takes away capspace for us, adding a total of 789 thousand to our salary.
and, in my eyes, lose productivity.
so, uh, what are we doing here?
Trying to free up capspace for the great work shortage of 2012?
Doesn’t make any sense to me.
I hope this doesn’t happen.
Maybe it makes sens with Lebron.
But.
Doesn’t make much sense.
A true friend stabs you in the front - Oscar Wilde
by dantheman3k on Jun 21, 2010 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
oh shoot, no edit.
“Assume Noah grows at all” should be “assume Taj grows at all.”
A true friend stabs you in the front - Oscar Wilde
Pietrus is every bit the jumpshooter as Deng, only difference is he had coaches who told him to put those feet behind the line.
I’ve often wondered how much the Deng hate around here would change if he finally had a coach that told him to just take one step back before he shoots. Then, the following frontline would be pretty fantastic:
Rose
James
Deng
Don’t really care
Noah
This trade would help fill out our bench which will be a need
Gives us a potiental starter. But like I wrote above the Bulls will sit on this until they find out who they get as a FA. After that they will call Orlando and revisit this.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
What if Orlando is the only team willing to take on Deng's contract?
I’d say do this just because it’s easier to trade guys like Pietrus and Gortat than it would be to trade Deng. The Bulls should consider this if they think they can move both guys they get back for Deng.
by dakoose on Jun 21, 2010 2:36 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
you're telling me the Raptors can get rid of Turkoglu, but we can't get rid of Deng?
A true friend stabs you in the front - Oscar Wilde
by dantheman3k on Jun 21, 2010 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
There's a difference between "getting rid of someone"
such as swapping him for Dalembert.
And actually making a trade that improves your team in some way.
by runningman on Jun 21, 2010 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't mind Deng's contract. If Thibs coaches him into taking a step back and shooting those shots as 3s,
then we basically have a well rounded team with some – but not much – depth.
I don’t want to get rid of a better player with a worse contract to have more depth and less quality.
A true friend stabs you in the front - Oscar Wilde
I don't understand why the Bulls do this
If we don’t get Lebron, we are a worse team than last year.
If we do get Lebron, why not use Deng’s contract towards a sign/trade involving one of the free agent power forwards instead?
by darksmokepuncher on Jun 21, 2010 2:45 PM CDT reply actions
Are you certain the teams with a big time PF
Want Luol Deng? The fact is we’re not in the front office of an NBA team, we have no idea what they think of our players or who they would take back in a sign and trade.
by Grinder in Training on Jun 21, 2010 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions
what are you trying to say?
of course I don’t know what teams losing free agent players want.
Honestly, I don’t care what they want.
They don’t really have the upper hand in this situation because these are unrestricted free agents.
If they decide that a 24 year old putting up 18 and 8 with good defense isn’t good enough for them, then they can sit back and stare at all of their cap space while they lose a good player for nothing.
btw, uncertainty about what trades are possible is no reason to give up and trade away Deng before July 1st; especially when you consider the number of very good power forwards that will be available.
by darksmokepuncher on Jun 21, 2010 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm trying to say using him in a sign and trade sounds good
But you have no idea if that’s actually possible. You might as well get the two pieces that are easy to move and not have to worry about it.
by Grinder in Training on Jun 21, 2010 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions
what are you trying to say?
of course I don’t know what teams losing free agent players want.
Honestly, I don’t care what they want.
They don’t really have the upper hand in this situation because these are unrestricted free agents.
If they decide that a 24 year old putting up 18 and 8 with good defense isn’t good enough for them, then they can sit back and stare at all of their cap space while they lose a good player for nothing.
btw, uncertainty about what trades are possible is no reason to give up and trade away Deng before July 1st; especially when you consider the number of very good power forwards that will be available.
by darksmokepuncher on Jun 21, 2010 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Well they do care what they want, even if you don't
One thing Sam has right is these teams are not feeder teams for the Bulls and they have their own set of motivations that have nothing to do with making a specific player happy or giving the Bulls a championship.
IF the Bulls are over the cap, their leverage is gone and these other teams are not simply handing over an all-star PF for a player they don’t want or need.
There is actually negative incentive for a team to make a trade that hands another team a championship dynasty. History will remember the GM who makes a trade like that as will other GMs around the league.
you mean like Wallace
the Memphis GM?
he just got an extension too
If we don't get Lebron
We still have FA money to add a piece or 2….this adds depth at the 5 spot and Gortat is an upgrade over Brad Miller. Backup 5’s are hard to come by, and especially one who seems when called upon can be a legit starting 5 in the playoffs no less. He plays against one fo the most durable players in the modern NBA…..but when needed has stepped up.
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
Amazing how many comments on this totally unconfirmed rumors
by Option27 on Jun 21, 2010 3:00 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
who told you these were unconfirmed rumors?
you have a source dont you? I need info. I need it now.
by darksmokepuncher on Jun 21, 2010 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions
and what's with the raving over Pietrus' 3 point shot?
its not any better than Hinrich’s. Also, even though he averaged 11 minutes less than Hinrich, he took more 3s.
so we would trade away one of our more efficient scorers for another average 3pt shooter? pass.
by darksmokepuncher on Jun 21, 2010 3:08 PM CDT reply actions
Wait why are we debating this?
Deng is the one that would be moved and Hinrich would still be a Bull.
exactly. how does pietrus' 3pt shooting benefit us if its no better than what we would have without him?
by darksmokepuncher on Jun 21, 2010 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions
umm because Deng doesn't even shoot the 3 point shot...
and he plays LeBron’s position. Thats how?
by SoulEater7 on Jun 21, 2010 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
the bulls problem wasn't lack of shots going up
as it was shots going in.
If we get Lebron, screw Pietrus. Use Deng’s contract to get better than that.
by darksmokepuncher on Jun 21, 2010 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
What do you mean "get better than that"?
How much better do you think you can do with a guy that has serious injury concerns and has a pretty big contract? I’ve always thought if we were ever going to get rid of him, it was going to be to a contending team like the Magic, that wants to switch things up, but doesn’t have the capspace to do it. There’s not gonna be a lot of teams willing to give away better talent than this for Luol. And god forbid, he gets hurt again next year, good luck. We should trade him now, while we can get this much back
He may not be married, but he's got plenty of Thibo-hoes.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 21, 2010 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions
there are a few teams that are about to lose starting power forwards for nothing
that’s what I mean by “better than that”
by darksmokepuncher on Jun 21, 2010 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions
I would say, ONE starting power forward
The only guy in free agency that the Bulls would give a max contract to (hence requiring Luol for the sign and trade) is Bosh. They’re not gonna do a sign and trade for Boozer, Amare or Lee. So, it could be as simple as, the Bulls know that Toronto doesn’t want Luol. Who knows, maybe they want Gortat, or even Pietrus? They have a need at both spots.
He may not be married, but he's got plenty of Thibo-hoes.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 21, 2010 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think Raptors would start Gortat over Bargnani
and I don’t think Jarret Jack would lose much sleep over Pietrus coming to town.
by darksmokepuncher on Jun 21, 2010 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Of course they wouldn't start Gortat over Bargnani
but they’ve been looking for another big to pair up with him, and play the center position. Gortat isn’t the ideal fit because he’s not much of a shot blocker (haven’t looked at stats, just from what I remember), but he’d still be a pretty good option. Plus, he could be great, if it pans out, because his deal is reasonable for a starting C/PF
He may not be married, but he's got plenty of Thibo-hoes.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 21, 2010 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions
because Deng also has a higher 3 pt fg%.
assume the coach runs an offensive system rather than the “Vinny Del Negro – GO” offense, and Pietrus doesn’t offer us anything Deng doesn’t offer, let alone that we wouldn’t already have in Kirk after the trade.
And the other player in the trade doesn’t offer us anything Omer Asik wouldn’t offer us.
We’d be trading quality for depth. Not worth it, not without Lebron.
And Luol has enough length to play a bit of PF, although he’s not nearly big enough to defend it very well imo. But the point is, if Lebron signs, Luol becomes depth.
If we trade Luol for depth, we lose quality for the sake of having 2 players instead of 1.
A true friend stabs you in the front - Oscar Wilde
That offense
Is also predicated on them shooting more 3’s, cuz Howard can clean up the misses and it opens the lane for Nelson’s good solid “speed O”.
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
I like this deal a lot
Don’t know if it’s been brought up already because I couldn’t read through this monster yet, but the thing I like, is that the two players we’d be adding have shorter, smaller contracts, and also have value around the league. So it gives us tremendous flexibility going forward, and I don’t think it’s dramatic decrease in talent. Actually, we could be better. I like the way that Pietrus scores his points compared to Deng. He’s definitely not as good as him, but the fact that he knows how to keep the ball moving, shoot the three and slash a little would be a welcome fit next to our guys.
He may not be married, but he's got plenty of Thibo-hoes.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 21, 2010 3:18 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
Btw, the thing that scares me is that we would be making Orlando a lot bigger and better
with Deng and Howard starting, they’d be a monstrous rebounding team, and it makes up for them playing Lewis at the four
He may not be married, but he's got plenty of Thibo-hoes.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 21, 2010 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions
I was thinking the same thing.
It’s easier to work with two small deals than one massive one. Also, Pietrus runs the break infinitely better than Deng does, and seems like a better fit overall. Deng’s better, but I like what Pietrus brings to the table. For Gortat, he helps a while Noah is on resting or in foul trouble, as we got beat pretty bad on the boards last year with Noah off of the floor.
"I like the way that Pietrus scores his points compared to Deng"
That’s all I’ve been trying to say about this trade and Luol Deng in general. It’s not about his 18 and 7. It’s about how and when he gets his 18 and 7. Is Deng better than Pietrus? Probably. Is Deng a better fit for this Bulls team than Pietrus? I don’t think so.
Exactly
It’s not all abut stats or PER. You have to consider how the player fits, and there’s been far too many times over the past few years where the offense grinds to a halt trying to get Lu involved. The one area where he will be missed is rebounding, but that’s not enough for me to say “keep him”. Luol is just too unreliable with his health and his play, that I’d be willing to risk it anyway
He may not be married, but he's got plenty of Thibo-hoes.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 21, 2010 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions
you will miss him defensively as well. pietrus is overrated as a defender because he
looks like a defender and seems to try, and occasionally gets down and looks intense guarding lebron or kobe5q1. his dmult score backs that up, and im pretty sure he isnt the team defender deng is either.
"I wrote a short story a few years ago about my mother, called 'The Castrating Zionist', and now I want to turn it into a novel."
Except Pietrus doesn't get 18 and 7
Brad Miller is god.
by Poloplaya14 on Jun 21, 2010 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think he was talking about Lu
He may not be married, but he's got plenty of Thibo-hoes.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 21, 2010 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions
So what.
Since when has 18 and 7 become this holy grail of what makes a valuable player or an important cog to winning a ring?
It's not
But it’s more than what Pietrus brings to the table, and in general, scoring more points and getting more rebounds are 2 good things.
Brad Miller is god.
by Poloplaya14 on Jun 21, 2010 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
I give precedence to scoring efficiency over "fit"
by darksmokepuncher on Jun 21, 2010 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Ok
Then meanwhile guys who “fit” like Derrick Fisher, Bruce Bowen, Robert Horry and Ron Artest will keep on winning rings as important pieces to Championship teams while the efficiency guys like Luol Deng and Zach Randolph continue to be efficient.
I'm pretty sure if you replaced Bowen with Deng
the Spurs would still have won championships. I’m guessing they would’ve won more. Pietrus is mediocre, there’s a reason he’s played 20mpg over his career.
by YaoPau on Jun 21, 2010 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
Yea, but it's not that simple
Would having Luol on that team instead of Bruce Bowen cost them having another (better) player on the roster?
He may not be married, but he's got plenty of Thibo-hoes.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 21, 2010 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Who is Luol costing us?
With extensions kicking in after this year, this is our year to stockpile longterm talent. Pietrus isn’t a longterm piece, he’s 28, mediocre, and as injury prone as Luol. So in this deal, the opportunity cost of having Luol is Marcin Gortat and $6 mil a couple years from now to maybe sign an MLE. I’ll take Deng.
by YaoPau on Jun 21, 2010 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions 9 recs
Ok, but what if Luol keeps getting hurt? Which is very possible
None of the players in this deal (including Luol) are ideal fits for this team going forward. Especially if we sign Lebron. But the nice thing about the Magic guys is that they can be moved far more easily. I’m gonna keep banging the injury drum, nobody seems to be talking about it. We just can’t count on the guy to play a full season. And the scary thing is, he tends to get hurt more towards the end of the year, which is bad in two ways, 1) it means his body wears down, and is a sign of future issues and 2) He isn’t around when we need him most, the playoffs. To me, rooting for a team that has shown they’re not big spenders, I say cut bait and bring in two fresh faces that will be easy to move and could net you a better asset in the future
He may not be married, but he's got plenty of Thibo-hoes.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 21, 2010 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions
In the past 2 years, Pietrus has played in 10 more games than Deng.
And with his minutes, Deng has had a ton more time to get hurt.
Pietrus and Deng are just as injury prone ass each other. Period.
A true friend stabs you in the front - Oscar Wilde
Except that one makes about $50 million more than the other...
but other than that, yea, you’re right
He may not be married, but he's got plenty of Thibo-hoes.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 21, 2010 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions
And the other is a lot better than one.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
by tyger1147 on Jun 21, 2010 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
When he plays, which is not often
(we can do this all day)
He may not be married, but he's got plenty of Thibo-hoes.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 21, 2010 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions
He plays quite often.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
: P
He may not be married, but he's got plenty of Thibo-hoes.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 21, 2010 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Deng plays a lot more than
Pietrus….
Pietrus might be more regarded and play more if he wasn’t hurt for like 20-25 games a year and then coming back and playing through injury.
Luol misses about 10 it seems a year….but has made it through a season
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
What is this magical better asset they'll net us in the future?
It seems like if they were worth a better asset than Deng the Magic would be pursuing that trade, no?
Or maybe in a year we can separate them and trade them each for players of equal quality?
As a side note, I’m a fan of the idea of trying to make this a 3-way to nab Bosh in a S+T, but that’s one of the few scenarios I can imagine these two bringing back more than Deng. And even so, I doubt the Raptors are going to be gung-ho about getting Gortat and Pietrus.
"guys like Luol Deng and Zach Randolph"
give me a break.
by darksmokepuncher on Jun 21, 2010 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions
So because you like the way Pietrus scores you think he's a better fit?
Sure Deng doesn’t take as many 3’s as I’d like, but in terms of this Bulls team he’s still a better fit. He’s actually a scoring option, which this team desperately needs. Go ahead, field a team of Rose, Hinrich, Pietrus, Noah, and Gortat and have fun scoring 85 points per game. You’ll play pretty good defense, but it’ll still be worse than if you had kept Deng.
by jpm356 on Jun 21, 2010 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Go ahead, field a team of Rose, Hinrich, Pietrus, Noah, and Gortat and have fun scoring 85 points per game.
Perhaps you’ve heard, but there’s a little thing called Free Agency coming up, I’m pretty sure that’s not gonna be what the team looks like next year
He may not be married, but he's got plenty of Thibo-hoes.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 21, 2010 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions
The rest of us will have faith after some ink has dried on some contract.
Until then, why make your team unconditionally crappier?
A true friend stabs you in the front - Oscar Wilde
"unconditionally crappier"
that’s such an overstatement. I’m sorry, but losing Deng is far from the end of the world even if we strike out in free agency.
He may not be married, but he's got plenty of Thibo-hoes.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 21, 2010 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions
dude we went 41 - 41 with Deng this season
Without Deng, with lesser players the year before , we went 41-41. I think his impact is self evident.
by Basketball Smurf on Jun 21, 2010 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
We made the playoffs this year without Ben Gordon.
Flawless logic!
"Boozer's dumb ass jumped. So I dunked on his ass."-Joakim Noah
by Ozzie Montana on Jun 21, 2010 11:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Impact is self evident
Only if you’re willing to overlook glaring holes in your logic.
i'm always willing to overlook glaring holes in my logic
i wasn’t going for an airtight argument, more making a snide comment to the “what will we do without Deng crowd.” We have survived without him before. I’m not seeing an irreplaceable player; certainly a good player; but not irreplaceable. I mean, we traded Nocioni and Gooden for a guy who played better than Deng in his brief stint in Chicago and we got Brad Miller in the trade as well. So I just don’t share the angst about losing Luol. I wouldn’t give him away. But if it was part of a larger plan to move him, I could see it. The guy simply doesn’t strike me as indenspisible.
by Basketball Smurf on Jun 21, 2010 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Okay
I will agree that he’s not irreplacable. There is a sliding scale of who’s replacable on the Bulls that starts with Pargo and goes up to Rose. You just seem to have Deng at way too low on the scale. If you let Deng go, it’ll be a long time before you get someone as good as him on your team. That’s the definition of “hard to replace”.
The fact that you say that Salmons was ever better than Deng is proof of you undervaluing Deng. Their offensive contribution is about equal, and Deng is much better as a rebounder and as a defender.
Losing Deng might be far from the end of the world
But if we strike out in free agency the above lineup is sure going to feel like it. YaoPau has been hammering on it for a while now, and I think this is a perfect example of his point that depth is overrated. Sure Pietrus and Gortat will probably make up his 18/7 combined, they might even do something like 25/12, but that doesn’t make the team better. The team I posted above has literally one scoring threat in Rose and 4 guys that teams will dare to shoot. If we get James the trade is fine, good even, but to make this trade without the certainty that he’s coming would potentially be disastrous.
by jpm356 on Jun 21, 2010 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
JPM the team you posted above sucks
But it’s not going to be our team, so who cares? What’s the point?
There’s no way in hell they don’t sign at least someone or trade for a big money player. They aren’t going to let that cap space go to waste.
by Grinder in Training on Jun 21, 2010 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions
2 role players
one who hasn’t clocked much time, the other who gets injured just as (if not more so) than Deng, both of which are career role players, for an above average SF who gets injured frequently
without a guaranteed quality SF coming in (Lebron), it IS an unconditionally crappier team.
You don’t add to our points of strength. You add a bit of depth to our points of weakness, but don’t really strengthen it – just give more depth to stay “just OK” at 3 point shooting and interior playing – and you subtract quality from the startling lineup.
A boneheaded trade without Lebron.
I don’t care what the record was for the past 2 years. I didn’t claim Deng was a game changer. We were lucky to go .500 this past year, we were lucky to go .500 the year before that. Why trade quality on one position for crappier depth over two?
A true friend stabs you in the front - Oscar Wilde
If we don't sign LeBron
We’re still going to sign someone. Be it Lee, Boozer, Johnson, somebody will sign with the Bulls.
by Grinder in Training on Jun 21, 2010 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Even if we strike out on a big 3
We’d still have a guy like Joe Johnson added.. we’re not going in with this as our starting 5.
by Grinder in Training on Jun 21, 2010 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Considering the money I'd rather have Deng the next 5 years than JJ.
And with our cap space we can probably sign straight out two players better than Pietrus and Gortat.
the fact that you think pietrus "keeps the ball moving" shows me you havent watched a lot of
him play. he does not do that at all. go to pinstripe post and ask them about pietrus the passer. they will laugh i am sure. pietrus is like pargo; if he catches the ball, odds are its going up.
"I wrote a short story a few years ago about my mother, called 'The Castrating Zionist', and now I want to turn it into a novel."
by TheMoon on Jun 21, 2010 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
but hey, anytime you can land an overrated defender whose offensive rating this year
was 5 points below his teams’, you have to do it.
"I wrote a short story a few years ago about my mother, called 'The Castrating Zionist', and now I want to turn it into a novel."
by TheMoon on Jun 21, 2010 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
How about an unconfirmed rumor with some Blazers love/hate.
Kevin Pritchard at it again…RT @SpearsNBAYahoo The Golden State Warriors have traded the #34 pick to Portland for #44 and cash
From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com/#ixzz0rWMejtdR
http://www.draftexpress.com
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
I think it's just that they "do" a lot of things
He may not be married, but he's got plenty of Thibo-hoes.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 21, 2010 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Bulls have a rumor.
Blazers have done something.
It’s fascinating how aggressive they are in such a conservative world.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Have these moves for the Blazers =
a championship?
by QUINTEN DALEY on Jun 21, 2010 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions
yes
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
I agree
Look for Oden to really take off (being serious) I think Portland is a lot closer than anyone’s giving them credit for…..they just need a heathy Oden….that guy’s a monster if he can stay healthy….he was just coming into his own this year and he still had a 23 PER….
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
by majoyenrac on Jun 21, 2010 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
it doesn't matter this is a blog that would rather see Loul Deng
and Kirk Hinrich get their jersey numbers retired more than anything else.
I would trade Kirk for these 2.
…
A true friend stabs you in the front - Oscar Wilde
by dantheman3k on Jun 21, 2010 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
When you build up a reputation as a team that will make moves, rather thann just doing a lot of talking
people that follow basketball and write about basketball become a lot more interested in what you do. That’s probably all their is to it. Plus they’re willing to spend the cash to make stuff happen
He may not be married, but he's got plenty of Thibo-hoes.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 21, 2010 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Woj reported the same trade. I assume that means its very much official.
A true friend stabs you in the front - Oscar Wilde
Is this the best offer the bulls can get for Deng?
bulls front office should wait to see who they get in freeagency………i would still rather keep deng if possible and trade hinrich but bulls front office will never give up their favorite player
If the bulls do decide to move deng
trade him to a team in the west………i don’t care where hinrich is moved, just moving him
by Jermal on Jun 21, 2010 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
People really need to remember how injury prone Luol is
I’ve never thought he was a bad player, problem is, he doesn’t play nearly enough. Getting rid of that contract would be a blessing, and one less thing to worry about going frward
He may not be married, but he's got plenty of Thibo-hoes.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 21, 2010 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions
He played in 70 games last season
Outside of two years ago when he played 49 games, he’s played in the vast majority of the games. 78, 82, 63 the three years before that.
You’d think he’s Shaun Livingston the way people talk about him.
by Grinder in Training on Jun 21, 2010 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
He's had two major injuries in 6 seasons, give me a break.
Amare Stoudemire has every bit of the injury history, yet let’s see how many people complain if the Bulls paid him 17 million a year.
"Boozer's dumb ass jumped. So I dunked on his ass."-Joakim Noah
by Ozzie Montana on Jun 21, 2010 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Amare's a much better player, so he's worth the risk
I don’t wanna sound like a Deng hater, cause I’m not, but I just feel like his time has kind of run it’s course with this team. The injuries are a part of it, but for the most part, I’m just kind of ready to move on from the Luol, Kirk, BG era. Like I said, I don’t like the injuries, but I’m also factoring in the contract and other things as well, and I would just kinda prefer a change. I really don’t care if he stays though, either situation is ok with me
He may not be married, but he's got plenty of Thibo-hoes.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 21, 2010 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Also...
Amare had microfracture surgery, which is far more severe than any injury Lu has sustained.
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
180 comments and only two greens?
this thread sucks
by regui8er on Jun 21, 2010 4:13 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Green snob!
He may not be married, but he's got plenty of Thibo-hoes.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 21, 2010 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
How would this Finals match up look?
Fisher vs Rose
Kobe vs Pietrus
Artest vs James
Gosol vs Noah
Bynum vs Gortat
I’d tune in.
you would?
I thought you hated basketball.
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 21, 2010 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions
SoulEater won't mind the NBA fixing games if the Bulls win titles.
"Boozer's dumb ass jumped. So I dunked on his ass."-Joakim Noah
by Ozzie Montana on Jun 21, 2010 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions
weird. i proposed this exact trade in january.
http://www.blogabull.com/2010/1/21/1263023/idea-for-bosh-trade-3-team
"I wrote a short story a few years ago about my mother, called 'The Castrating Zionist', and now I want to turn it into a novel."
by TheMoon on Jun 21, 2010 4:49 PM CDT reply actions 5 recs
how that is the "exact trade"?
by JustAnotherFan on Jun 21, 2010 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
it wasnt a true 3 teamer. it was basically 2 distinct trades, one of which we are talking about now.
"I wrote a short story a few years ago about my mother, called 'The Castrating Zionist', and now I want to turn it into a novel."
the 2nd of which had us trading Noah in there, too
I don’t see how that’s anywhere near “the exact same trade”.
A true friend stabs you in the front - Oscar Wilde
by dantheman3k on Jun 21, 2010 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
you arent getting the whole singular/plural thing. i proposed 2 trades (plural). one trade (singular) is the same as the
one (singular) on this thread. hence, its the same exact trade (singular). will the second one follow? who knows. but the first one (singular) is the same.
"I wrote a short story a few years ago about my mother, called 'The Castrating Zionist', and now I want to turn it into a novel."
Hey Moon, can you do me a favor and make a Deng for Lebron trade proposal Fanpost?
He may not be married, but he's got plenty of Thibo-hoes.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 21, 2010 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
NO DON'T DO THAT
DENG IS A GOOD DEFENDER!!
by Stacey_Is_King on Jun 21, 2010 11:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Why does Gortat gets so much love here?
He sucks!
by JustAnotherFan on Jun 21, 2010 5:17 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
Because his nickname is "The Polish Hammer", and that's all kinds of awesome
He may not be married, but he's got plenty of Thibo-hoes.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 21, 2010 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
Great point.
We would definitely win the nickname trade, getting both the Polish Hammer and Air France.
thank you.
A true friend stabs you in the front - Oscar Wilde
by dantheman3k on Jun 21, 2010 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
The Rudy love is no more justified
Gortat actually had a better year two years ago than Rudy had 2 years ago, and was better last year than Rudy was. His contract is every bit as much of a value, probably more since there are more years left.
Even if I agreed with that
how that justifies we hiring the 7 footer nocioni who can’t shoot the 3?
by JustAnotherFan on Jun 21, 2010 8:35 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I smell another trade
Does anyone know if Asik is really coming? If so, I think the Bulls might try to package Asik or Gortat to get Bosh. Toronto wants a Center and the Bulls could offer one of them and still have one on the bench.
Stage one: Fire Vinny (check)
Stage two: Hire a good coach (check)
Stage three: Draft a SG who shoots 3
Stage four: Sign a top 3 FA
Stage five: Trade Deng, Hinrich, whoever not named Rose or Noah to get another top FA
What's the rush?
If you get Lebron, make the trade. Otherwise, no.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on Jun 21, 2010 6:08 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
yep.
"I wrote a short story a few years ago about my mother, called 'The Castrating Zionist', and now I want to turn it into a novel."
The only caveat would be if you intended to free up Noah
for the S/T for Bosh. But I don’t think we’re going that route – for better or for worse.
I do like the trade with Lebron. You gain athleticism, size, and both players would be nice complements to the most talented core in the league. Since the Magic were the ones who proposed it, I’d also hold out for Orlando’s 1st, and use it on Jones or Anderson, whoever is available. Seraphin or the VCU guy at 17.
Basically, I want Lebron James, Derrick Rose, and a goddamn platoon of defensively-minded, big, elite athletes…with a sprinkling of three point shooters.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
Wow, that's an interesting point about Noah.
And one that I don’t think anyone brought up in this thread. Maybe the Bulls plan is to sign LeBron, do this trade, and instead of wheeling Gortat off to the Raptors as part of a trade for Bosh, they’d actually be spinning Noah to the Raps with spare parts (Hinrich, Asiki, pick, etc.). I’d really hate to lose Noah, but damn, imagine:
Rose
Pietrus
LeBron
Bosh
Gortat
That’s a pretty ridiculous starting 5. I’d rather deal Gortat and change to the Raps for Bosh, because I really, really don’t want to lose Noah. But I’d still consider doing this. All of this stuff is exciting to think about; can’t wait until the Draft and July 1st.
Let's sign LeBron and dance our way to the NBA championship. It'll be so crazy!
Actually...
Gortat is probably the better fit for the Raptors alongside Bargnani than Noah would be…so, in theory, the Bulls could make this a three team deal, with the Raptors getting Noah/spare parts/Orlando’s pick and the Bulls land Bosh and Pietrus…its complicated with a lot of moving parts, but makes sense for all three teams involved…if Lebron comes to Chicago that is…
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
Gortat might be a slightly better "fit" because he's bulkier, but Noah is a much better player. And he's younger.
Let's sign LeBron and dance our way to the NBA championship. It'll be so crazy!
Actually I just saw that this is basically what TheMoon proposed in January. Props to him.
Let's sign LeBron and dance our way to the NBA championship. It'll be so crazy!
I would do this trade in a minute...
Whether we get Lebron or not, we’ll still need outside shooting. Deng does not provide any at all. Yes, he is a very servicable SF who scores 18/game and pulls down 7 boards/game. But he has absolutely no handle, and as said many times before he has no 3 pt shot. Two things that r needed from a SF in an up tempo offense, which is the offense best suited for D.Rose.
No matter if we get Lebron, Bosh, or whoever. We’ll still need guys to fill out the roster, and give us some depth. Doesn’t hurt to add 2 guys who aren’t bums in my opinion.
Some more food for thought
To all of you who actually like this trade:
If the Bulls do trade Lu and strike out on LeBron, Joe Johnson likely becomes their next free agent target.
You can bet that the need for a big 2 who can shoot will be more in demand if all they have is Hinrich, Pietrus and Johnson
You can bet...
…that Joe Johnson will see a lot more time at the three if that is the outcome…and I don’t know that the Bulls are a sufficiently improved team over last season by subbing Johnson for Deng…
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
this is one of the first rumors I have read
that actually seems somewhat plausible. Gortat and Deng both have long contracts. We would be locked into Pietrus for 2 years.. not too bad, solid outside shooter and doesn’t require tons of minutes. Although, SVG does not seem like a good fit with Deng unless he is confident that he can turn him into a 3pt shooter (which I think he could be). I don’t know how Orlando will be when they are turning to the trio of Deng, Vince, and Lewis for big shots in late game situations unless maybe they have a plan to rid themselves of Vince too.
It really does seem plausible
If for no other reason than, who the hell would make up a trade like this. I understand phony Lebron rumors, but this is almost too weird to be fake
He may not be married, but he's got plenty of Thibo-hoes.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 21, 2010 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions
BTW..
anyone read the statement by Bosh saying that he is not a secondary piece to a championship team. Doesn’t that basically rule him out for playing with LeBron or DWade? So if the Bulls don’t snag LeBron, I’d definitely say they are still in the running for Bosh
that was a year ago.
Not that that’s much different now, but if we could get him in a sign and trade so he could still get his max guaranteed dollars, I think he’d be OK with being piece #2 to the perceived-to-be-best-player-in-the-NBA.
A true friend stabs you in the front - Oscar Wilde
by dantheman3k on Jun 21, 2010 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions
This trade is terrible!!!!
noway would i want to trade deng for those bums!!!!
they only way i would consider this is if it freed up enough space for two max guys
by Da Bears2333333 on Jun 21, 2010 9:55 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
man now i can day dream about this trade every day
deng go bye bye.
and we get the first bulls player with a super move
Polish Hammer!!!
i think he had a better one in the playoffs this year
unfortunately in that video gordan smothers him which
allows deng to block him all goofy looking.
I am sticking to my guns when i say James Johnson will be
better than Luol Deng
why would we do this???
i thought the whole point in moving deng or hinrich would be to clear up space for two max guys
dengs contract $10,365,000
Gortat $5,854,000
Pietrus$5,300,000
this move does not clear any cap for us what so ever??
by Da Bears2333333 on Jun 21, 2010 10:58 PM CDT reply actions
Well, assuming we got Lebron...
We would make this trade to move a player whose skillset is largely redundant compared to Lebron’s for 2 players who would add much-needed depth as well as help fill our 2 biggest specific needs (outside shooting + post defense)
Brad Miller is god.
by Poloplaya14 on Jun 21, 2010 11:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Well you know what I mean
And if you don’t I’m basically saying anything Lu can do, Bron can do better.
Brad Miller is god.
the bulls wouldn't make this deal
they aren’t giving up Deng unless Lebron signs or unless they believe they can sign 2 max free agents. Maybe the Bulls can work something out later in the summer for Deng, but if the Bulls sign James, I doubt it would be with Orlando. The top teams rarely trade such high level players for one another.
by Basketball Smurf on Jun 21, 2010 11:48 PM CDT reply actions
Sam Smith on the subject
There’s zero to it (…) Too many people believe what they hope is real. Deng’s no giveaway in my mind, but look at it this way: Orlando is paying Rashard Lewis, who really is a small forward, about $19 million. So they’re going to give up their best reserve big man and their best defensive two for another three while probably letting go Matt Barnes because they don’t want to pay him and he makes $1.6 million. Yeah, makes a lot of sense. No, it’s never been discussed or even broached.
Nice to see that he still has the time to dispel this silly little rumor
after writing his lengthy Lebron to Minnesota piece.
He may not be married, but he's got plenty of Thibo-hoes.
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 22, 2010 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
And he's really claiming to know
everything that has been discussed or broached in the Bulls front office?
Then why the hell hasn’t he ever reported any of it?
Remember too
Sam saying something to the effect of Lebron’s going to go to LA for the MLE next year….
Never trust Sam Smith, but take him for what he’s worth….and I think he’s a very entertaining writer.
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
In his defense (I don't know why I'm defending this wack)
he does separate his delusions (like the LBJ to Minny story or Taj is an All Star in the making) from the facts he believes to be know about. He was the first one to dismiss the Kobe trade and to say there the Hinrich for Boston/Lakers trade would not happen. He’s usually no wrong on this.
by JustAnotherFan on Jun 22, 2010 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh I know
I really do like Sam Smith (he’s perhaps still my favorite writer of them all) but he isn’t really one to be believed in any manner…..
Still I find his reads compelling.
And he could be write, as you suggest above….I’m playing a bit devil’s advocate.
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
In what universe is Rashard Lewis a 3?
Oh yeah, Sam’s Universe. Wherever/whatever that is.
Let's sign LeBron and dance our way to the NBA championship. It'll be so crazy!
He is a natural
3, Orlando just plays him at the 4.
by QUINTEN DALEY on Jun 23, 2010 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions
He's a stretch 4, it may not be the prototypical 4, but that's where he's most useful to a team
especially considering he does little more than shoot
It will be found an unjust and unwise jealousy to deprive a man of his natural liberty upon the supposition he may abuse it.
George Washington
Um....
Rashard was a SF in Seattle whcih is where he had his best individual seasons….
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
by majoyenrac on Jun 23, 2010 7:51 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Pretty much
Orlando plays him at the 4 because Dwight Howard can do the rebounding and shotblocking of two people, which allows them to sit Rashard at the 3 point line on offense and get ridiculous spacing.
Oh I know....
That’s not just pretty much, that’s exactly why….they also hoped his speed will help create more mismatches.
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
Replace
Gortat with Brandon Bass and we have a deal
I met one of Hinrich's Professor's at Kansas, but he never met Hinrich.
by Another Afflicted Chicago Fan on Jun 23, 2010 9:58 PM CDT reply actions
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