Marc Stein and Bill Simmons on the Bulls 'dysfunction'
This is from this week's Bill Simmons podcast with Marc Stein. They got into some free agent talk, and Stein really hammers the Bulls front office as if it's common knowledge, and the once bullish Simmons agrees. Here's my best transcription:
[getting off a discussion of Cavs failing to blow Bulls out…]
Stein: With Rose and Noah, any free agent has to think, ‘ya know what?’…on one hand, the Bulls are such a dysfunctional mess as an organization, and I put the blame on Reinsdorf. He’s the enabler, the one who keeps Paxson in this role, and it’s just a mess, an absolute mess. So if I’m a free agent, I’m wondering if I want to hitch my ride to a Jerry Reinsdorf operation. But on the flip side, man, Rose and Noah, are pretty enticing.
Simmons: If you’re Wade, and they clean house and fire their coach and GM…
Stein: They won’t. Vinny Del Negro might lose his job, but if Paxson is fired I’ll be shocked.
Simmons: Well they’re idiots…
Stein: Even if Paxson is fired, Reinsdorf is still there. If I’m Wade, I’m not goin: I like Noah, I like Rose, but with the cap space that Miami has I like Pat Riley more.
[nonsense on Phil Jackson returning]
Simmons: Well I think it’s a shame, because I agree with you, the Chicago scenario can’t happen, because anyone (and Dwayne Wade’s wife) will tell him: you don’t want to play for that Organization, it’s too screwed up. But, man…[Go on to praise Rose and especially Noah more]
I think it's clear Simmons doesn't know as much as he pretends to know, but that Stein is so adamant about this was interesting.
And things dont' look any more organized with the Bulls thus far in the offseason. With them pushing back the Del Negro firing into next week, KC Johnson correctly surmises it's making things even weirder:
With Del Negro's highly likely dismissal delayed, players were left in the awkward position of answering whether or not he should be retained. They alternated between showing respect for his positive demeanor to tepid support, delicately walking a fine line.
We already have Rose calling a potential firing 'devastating' (I can only guess such a highly-loaded word is due to lack of vocabulary, what with everything always being 'crazy' to Rose) and Noah following suit in an endorsement.
I don't think these endorsements matter in terms of keeping VDN, especially from these two, given Vinny is pretty much (Noah had a couple months with Skiles) the only NBA coach they've ever had. Their work ethic and humility is well-documented, they'll be fine with any new coach.
But showing such a disconnect (even if perceived more than real) between players and management is just unnecessary. Whether the delay is to make sure the announcement is on a distracted media day (don't think Christmas Eve is an option), working out the finances of the buyout of Vinny's 3rd year, or getting the final story straight with the Pax shove, the sooner the better.
And if they need a new chief basketball executive too, they should start even sooner.
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We need to start a BaB pool on when Vinny finally gets the axe
I’m calling the Sunday of Memorial Day weekend. Everyone’s going to be one, two, or all of drunk, traveling, with family. It’s just like Christmas Eve only warmer!
It will be found an unjust and unwise jealousy to deprive a man of his natural liberty upon the supposition he may abuse it.
George Washington
I say it
will be on Cinco de Mayo, Pax doesn’t care what holiday it is, whether its American or not, he just has to fire his coach on a holiday.
by QUINTEN DALEY on Apr 29, 2010 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions
'devastating'
Thats like loosing an close uncle. VDN getting fired would be more like exciting.
Watching LeBron is like watching a tornado destroy a small town……just freakin awesome!!by Juannieboy on Apr 25, 2010 6:37 PM CDT
'loosing a close uncle'?
did you say that because Rose in fact just lost a close uncle?
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"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 29, 2010 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm glad Reinsdorf is finally getting some flak somewhere outside of this blog
it’s like he’s the fucking Godfather or Avon Barksdale or something. Why are people so afraid to criticize him? I mean, the local media (Sam Smith and the CSN guys excluded, because they’re on his payroll), the national media, the basketball world in general… Are they afraid he’s gonna put a hit out on them or something?
I’m just confused as to why it’s taken so long for the rest of the world to realize what a frightening combination of doofus and evilness that Reinsdorf is. I mean, shouldn’t we have realized this after the 1998 dismantling? Or the 2000 debacle? I guess Krause was the fall guy… but who’s it going to be this time?
I got the skills to pay the bills and that's about it
by Rose Colored Goggles on Apr 29, 2010 12:00 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I cut
any Chicago ownership 100 years slack after winning a championship. Damn Cubs owners!
by El Toro de Goro on Apr 29, 2010 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions
im not the biggest stein fan
but he seems dead on here, and i think it’s something we’ve all been fearing since this nebulous 2010 “plan” was hatched— players don’t like reinsdorf, and our front office looks like fools.
http://ExtendtheGame.blogspot.com
I'm still not sure how much organizations matter to free agents
But now that this kind of talk has been out there and has been getting traction….
by drew gooden's facial growth on Apr 29, 2010 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions
What else are the players going to say?
As of right now, this guy’s their coach. Just as he’s stood by them over the seasons, they’ll stand by him. It would be pretty bad for their working relationship to trash (or even equivocate about) him in public, no matter what private opinions they have. I think you hit the nail on the head with Rose, and it’s indicative of how seriously we should take these public votes of confidence.
I thought it interesting that Stein immediately pinned it all on the Chairman. That’s both good (because it’s accurate that he’s the source of much of the dysfunction, and it makes me respect Steiny Mo’s opinion more and glad that those outside of the organization also see it) and bad (because the Dorf the one unchangeable thing about the franchise, forevermore).
On another note, it was awesome to hear how effusive Stein and Simmons were about Rose and Noah. Mission accomplished for these playoffs.
Reinsdorf caused all this
dysfunction, by not allowing Pax to hire the coach he wanted, Pax was never a VDN fan, and was forced to hire somebody he want here in the first place.
by QUINTEN DALEY on Apr 29, 2010 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions
what a shit show
Sometimes a player's greatest challenge is coming to grips with his role on the team.
-- Scottie Pippen
by Orlando Woolridge on Apr 29, 2010 12:18 PM CDT reply actions
When Vinny was hired originally with no coaching experience, i thought it was because
1) he comes cheap
2) VDN could be a possible replacement to Pax if Pax wanted to leave, retire, or take time off
…but considering the leaked rumors of VDN getting fired early this season, I guess #2 seems unlikely…
[Maybe Pax decided he wanted to keep his job or something and hence…periodic office wars and shoving matches with Vinny?]
[Or maybe Vinny took this job originally because of the chance to move into the front office…and that no longer exists now or something]
by KentuckyBullsFan on Apr 29, 2010 12:25 PM CDT reply actions
is phil jackson returning that non-sensical?
i know that there’s bad blood, but he’s got to put chicago over the top as a free agent destination.
"I've hacked into your brain. You're throwing a party and no one's showing up."
I think it indeed is
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"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 29, 2010 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions
wow they make it hard to root for the name on the front
its almost like you feel impelled to just root for Rose and Noah at this point.
this is like a curse. the Bulls finally have two highly coveted players and money (in the form of cap space as well as owner with deep pockets) but are hindered by the boobs in the front office. inevitably they’re gonna end up overpaying for a FA further down the trough. because ideally, i’m quite for cleaning house but it couldn’t be worse timing.
as a FA, i’d trust Riley (though they’ll have 11 new players next year), Walsh/ D’Antoni (and, uh, NEW YORK), Thorn (Lopez, Harris, history of success, and, uh, NEW YORK) over Gar Paxdorf 6 days and week and twice on Sunday.
…now that i think of it, the Nets are in the exact same position as us. all star guard, improving big man, cap space, Jay-Z. the fact that its practically NY tips the scales. UGH!! i hate my fanhood right now.
the thigh bone is not connected to the free throw bone.- Shaquille O'Neal
by BULLieving in Miami on Apr 29, 2010 12:57 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
oh, and the Nets are now owned by über-rich Russian dude who’s gonna come in and throw cash around like Pacman Jones.
the thigh bone is not connected to the free throw bone.- Shaquille O'Neal
by BULLieving in Miami on Apr 29, 2010 1:01 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions 3 recs
You know, I'm really starting to get sick of everyone saying VDN has actually done a good job with this team
1) Like I’ve mentioned before, the players like him cause he’ll allow them to pretty much do anything. Now, I’m not saying a coach shouldn’t allow a player to play throughout their mistakes. It’s one of the main gripes I had with Skiles. But when your playbook is as thin as Vinnys’, there shouldn’t even be mistakes to be made. His style of coaching is to allow players to just kinda figure it out on their own whilst setting up a few basic calls in between. As a player, why wouldn’t you like that?! Especially if you played under Skiles already. You know how it’s like on the other side.
Oh, and I think ‘running’ is all that Del Negro really cares about when it comes to his free flowing offense. It’s the only reason I can think of when it comes to not letting Tyrus play through his mistakes.
2) Taking this team to the playoffs in his first 2 years of head coaching should not be a praise to Del Negro! It’s a praise to how freakin’ good Rose and Noah are. It’s no coincidence that when one went down, the wheels would completely fall off the bus. This reason alone is the main reason I’m so excited for a new head coach and some good players surrounding. If Rose and Noah could drag this squad into the playoffs with VDN running the show, just imagine what might be with a coach who knows what he’s doing and some players who can actually play.
by Option27 on Apr 29, 2010 1:01 PM CDT reply actions 7 recs
He didn't allow
Tyrus or James Johnson to play through their mistakes.
by QUINTEN DALEY on Apr 29, 2010 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Well Tyrus was noted
But on James Johnson, it wasn’t just his mistakes. It’s that he’s just not good at playing basketball
Amen!!
That’s the same thing I believe. It’s a testament to Rose and Noah that they were able to get this team to the playoffs even in a weak East. It’s kind of the same way I felt about how BG would bail out Skiles with his 4th quarter binges. At some point the players just stopped listening to the coach, gave the ball to Rose and got out of his way.
It's really off putting how dismissive Stein was of Reinsdorf. Other than his little rant last year, JR manages to stay out of the national spotlight.
And Simmons is his usual bipolar self, calling the situation “complete crap”, but also saying Chicago is one of the 3 obvious destinations for Wade and LeBron.
They still have some time before July 1st comes around, but hiring a new head coach and front office executive is a pretty tall order.
I said before, the bright side is players can see crappy situations, but if the on-court product is decent and the money is right, that can ease their minds. Are free agents as geeked about Rose and Noah like almost every analyst seems to be?
"Boozer's dumb ass jumped. So I dunked on his ass."-Joakim Noah
The delay has to be option 3 - Working out the "tie pulling"
I heard KC say that this weekend ( Reinsdorf gets back in town) will be the first time Jerry, Pax, and Vinny will be in same room since the fight. They’ll probably have their lawyers in there and add 50K to the final year… then get Vinny out of there. It can’t be media reasons because they could have been rehearsing Gar for the firing press conf… for 5 months.
Hopefully, and I mean boy I wish I could trust them, they are really working hard on getting the new coach. It can’t be an 8 week process again…. even if they end up with a decent hire. Another interesting thing mentioned… is the Bulls job the most attractive job thats gonna be available to these coaching candidates… Rose, Noah, and cap space?
friggin absentee owner
not that unusual in the league, but i think it’s made worse that ‘dorf isn’t around AND when he is it’s ChiSox first.
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"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 29, 2010 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions
i was actually discussing this with a buddy
not to keep beating a point because i mention i above, but NJ might be such a prime choice for a coach, they could possibly pull Coach K from Duke. first, what else does he have to prove at Duke or as a college coach? secondly, he was offered the Lakers jon a few years ago, but i can see why he wouldn’t take that. too much pressure to succeed with their history, being a currently established team, plus dealing with Kobe. but since then, he’s coached Team USA so he has learned how to manage the egos and get them to win, and NJ has never been a winner so his chances to be viewed as successful are greater. plus a possible max FA joining a young squad and a filthy rich owner who looks like he’ll be aggressive.
compare that to the Bulls current situation…
the thigh bone is not connected to the free throw bone.- Shaquille O'Neal
by BULLieving in Miami on Apr 29, 2010 2:20 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Fuck Coach K.
I saw T2 at Walgreens in Deerfield he’s tall. if you’re wondering what his grocery list included: magnums, french vanilla ice cream and a 20 oz sprite
by Super-Structure on Apr 29, 2010 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Coach K is never leaving Duke.
Ever.
Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!
i dunno
all i’m saying is if he were to leave, this would be the perfect opportunity. the only place a 70-loss team can go is up. could be something like a perfect storm…
he’d be stupid not to consider it.
the thigh bone is not connected to the free throw bone.- Shaquille O'Neal
by BULLieving in Miami on Apr 29, 2010 7:03 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I dunno,
why would he want to coach in the NBA? He seems pretty happy at Duke, with his program running year after year after year. A legend. Going to the NBA could screw that up. Look at Spurrier in the NFL. … Eh. He’s also said publicly multiple times he’s not leaving Duke.
Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!
Or Pitino?
Carlisimo ? Larry Brown is the only good transitioner. Really the skill sets are different, Smooth over massive Egos? Convince parents that Duke is the best option for their son. Two different things.
Bosh or Bust
by JockstrapNoah on Apr 29, 2010 8:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Basically, yeah.
Though he does do well with Team USA, but eh.
I didn’t remember any of those other coaches. :P
Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!
Wouldn't the best situation have been the Lakers job in 2005?
"Boozer's dumb ass jumped. So I dunked on his ass."-Joakim Noah
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 29, 2010 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions
The Bulls are a mess
and that blame lies squarely on the shoulders of Jerry Reinsdorf, but also John Paxson who royally screwed up a team that should be competing among the league’s elite right now, not just being a pesky first round exit. I actually wrote an article about how badly Paxson screwed up a situation that was ripe for success back in 2006. http://www.frontofficefans.com/2010/4/14/1421987/the-last-rodeo-why-the-bulls
For The Love of the Game - We're buying a team & the fans are runnin the show
Check out http://www.frontofficefans.com/ the blog for Project Franchise
Follow me on twitter at aramnath87.
Your article has one major flaw.
Jerry Reinsdorf wanted Ben Wallace in Chicago. He was the one that pushed that and shoved pax and skiles onto a plane in blue jeans.
Paxon is not without his own faults and I would not complain if he were axed because he’s bad at his job or this VDN thing. However, he won’t be and he will be next year unless he follows through with last years proclamation that he cannot handle the stress of the job and retires. Clearly, Reinsdorf encouraged this current setup with Gar, intending to take a big load off John’s stress level. That didn’t happen.
I don’t disagree with your desire to see pax fired, but you have to see the bigger problem with the Org in Reinsdorf demanding Wallace, screwing up the Mike D’Antoni and doug Collins hires, his absentee ownership, love of the ChiSox before anything else (once said he would trade all the jordan era championships for one world series), and he general loyalty to "company men" who seem to become lifers in the bulls org. Blame pax and call for his head, but don’t forget where most of our ire should be directed at.
If we aren't careful, the leanness we now feel will be the starvation of those we serve.
by Chi 'Till I Die on Apr 29, 2010 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Good call
and I know that Reinsdorf wanted Wallace in Chicago, but at the end of the day Paxson’s got to be able to either not offer Ben a ridiculously bloated contract or have the balls to confront Reinsdorf and say look at the guy’s numbers, they are falling and make his case. To me it seemed like Paxson was complicit in signing Ben and helped in the process rather than Reinsdorf forcing his hand.
The Mike D’Antoni non-hiring was Reinsdorf’s worst and cheapest move and then to compound it by not landing Collins before setttling on a rookie head coach without any experience like VDN is inexcusable. That article was also written right after the whole Paxson-VDN affair, so I tended to focus on Paxson, moreso than Reinsdorf, but I agree with you that at the very least Reinsdorf deserves as much blame as Paxson.
For The Love of the Game - We're buying a team & the fans are runnin the show
Check out http://www.frontofficefans.com/ the blog for Project Franchise
Follow me on twitter at aramnath87.
You think after being in the org for about 18 years
Because Jerry liked him he would ball up over Ben Wallace? I don’t. I think Jerry gets waht he wants because he is the owner.
If we aren't careful, the leanness we now feel will be the starvation of those we serve.
by Chi 'Till I Die on Apr 29, 2010 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Excellent article! no flaws at all...
"I tried being reasonable, I didn't like it."
"Go ahead, make my day"
"We boil at different degrees"
"A good man always knows his limitations"
"You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?"
I'm hoping.
Also in the Stein-Simmons podcast is the theory of the level of dysfunction in Portland to let Brandon Roy play (between owners-front office). And they fired Pritchard’s top guy. Let’s get him to Chicago
by The90sBullsRevival on Apr 29, 2010 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Reinsdorf will never hire a guy like Pritchard.
I saw T2 at Walgreens in Deerfield he’s tall. if you’re wondering what his grocery list included: magnums, french vanilla ice cream and a 20 oz sprite
by Super-Structure on Apr 29, 2010 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Because Pritchard seems like he wants real control...
and I doubt Reinsdorf offers it. If Paxon and Forman get fired, we will certainly get another company man. There is no evidence to indicate otherwise.
I saw T2 at Walgreens in Deerfield he’s tall. if you’re wondering what his grocery list included: magnums, french vanilla ice cream and a 20 oz sprite
by Super-Structure on Apr 29, 2010 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions
ha
thought the same exact thing
Doesn’t seem very moral to me. Might as well take Satan’s autograph while you’re at it. - N.C.
Kudos to Stein
Kudos to Stein for placing the blame where it truly belongs: Jerry Reinsdorf. He is the reason why the Bulls are so dysfunctional.
Wow
I never really thought of that whole possibility of Reinsdorf trading and not resigning the Bulls team of the late 90’s just so he could have more money to help the White Sox! Now I really hate him, lol! He should realize right about now that the Bulls could be something really special with a strong and young nucleus and the possibility of attracting a big FA or two along with a good coach! Come on Reinsdorf! Wake Up!
I might be naive but I think it's not that bad
I’m mean Paxson sucks,
JR sucks,
VDN sucks
But the players were motivated to play and win. When the got the Ws they were visibly having fun. When they lose they want to turn things around – and did. They were protecting the Org. against the press.
That’s much more than you can say about the Heat – where Wade was bitching because Beasley has no hunger – or Toronto where Lebron himself said they gave up when they lost Bosh.
So if you ask me sh*t is not so bad in there. Bosh or Wade wouldn’t “suffer” that much. And it’s not like JR didn’t did what MJ wanted him to do. The Org may be bad but it is not I’d-rather-play-in-hell bad
We should start a chain letter or start making phone calls.
Not only should Vinny be gone, but Paxson needs to go too.
I don’t really care about Forman because it appears he has little to no responsibility.
yeah, most of the time I go
“Forman? Forman?… ah! Forman”
by JustAnotherFan on Apr 29, 2010 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Speaking of Simmons
From his 2010 NBA Playoff Human Power Rankings
6. Derrick Rose, Joakim Noah (tie)
Their 2010 playoff performances were a co-written love letter to LeBron and Wade. Here’s what the letter said:
Dear LeBron and Dwyane,
We are wired correctly. We give a crap. We want to win. We are really really good. We are warriors. We could absolutely be the second-best and third-best guys on a team that wins multiple titles. Sadly, this can’t happen without one of you. Please think about Chicago. It’s cold during the winter, but during the spring and summer, there’s no better place. It’s the No. 3 TV market. It’s the city that once had the greatest player ever. We’re firing our coach and GM this summer; if you want, you can pick the next two guys. We want to win titles. Not title … titles. By the way, Joakim wants you to know that he isn’t nearly as annoying if he’s your teammate.
Much respect,
Joakim and Derrick
by Option27 on Apr 29, 2010 3:33 PM CDT reply actions 4 recs
"We’re firing our coach and GM this summer"
and there’s the rub
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 29, 2010 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm just listening to the interviews
they all say “whatever happens upstairs”.
It’s like: “we don’t give a f…, man! We’re balling!”
by JustAnotherFan on Apr 29, 2010 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Stein seems to know his stuff
The fact Stein knew that there was no chance JR would fire Paxson makes me believe he has a good feel for the organization. It worries me that this is the word being passed around the league about the team. Would really suck to miss out on a once in a generation type player and potential championship because Reinsdorf is loyal to losers.
we'll get a player like Udonis Haslem
free agents that get bypassed and their team has no more cap room
Paxson will step in and overpay bidding against himself
At least Stein and Simmons refer to Paxson the same as I do “an idiot”
Don’t be fooled by appearance cause Paxson doesn’t look like an idiot, but he really is!
"I tried being reasonable, I didn't like it."
"Go ahead, make my day"
"We boil at different degrees"
"A good man always knows his limitations"
"You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?"
I'm going 100% F.A.N. this offseason
and leaving my cynicism/skepticism/and outright distrust of the Bulls management checked at the door [for now]. This, probably, momentarily, makes me the type of fan that typically disgusts me. However, I’m feeling somewhat unreasonably optimistic this afternoon and I intend to feel this way until the next potential post-Jordan Bulls disappointment actually occurs.
Interesting ... the freedom of choice
"I tried being reasonable, I didn't like it."
"Go ahead, make my day"
"We boil at different degrees"
"A good man always knows his limitations"
"You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?"

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