Cavs 121, Bulls 98: blown out back to reality
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 25, 2010 5:48 PM CDT
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Print| Pace | Eff | eFG | FT/FG | OREB% | TOr | |
| Cleveland | 98.0 | 123.5 | 60.8% | 31.6 | 13.5 | 11.2 |
| Chicago | 100.0 | 39.6% | 28.6 | 32.1 | 12.2 |
Not much to say in a game that was this much of a destruction, except to point it out as exactly that.
One bright spot was Joakim Noah (even Rose wasn't much today especially after turning his ankle in the 3rd), with the first 20/20 playoff game in Bulls playoff history. Even when not making shots early in the game, Noah was active enough to accumulate fouls on the Cleveland frontcourt, though their depth (and ability to go small with LeBron at PF) doesn't make that much of an advantage. The Bulls were able to control the glass today, but not much else went right.
I found it a hard game to get into: early start time, lots of whistles, and the participants on the court also seemed sluggish. LeBron was accumulating stats but was still limiting his work to the outside. But then midway through the second quarter the tide started to shift, seemingly right when James Johnson checked in and committed 3 fouls in under two minutes. From then on the Cavs lived at the line, though Johnson's poor play (and any other odd VDN rotation decisions today) was merely catalyst if not a cause: no one thing contributes to a team scoring 75 points in two quarters as the Cavs did in the second and third tonight. They were able to spread the floor beautifully and exploit matchups with LeBron and Antawn Jamison. No need to go into LeBron's fantastic performance, I'm sure any media outlet will do more than enough to that effect.
And Cleveland did not call off the dogs in the perfunctory 4th period, which I thought was a good move on their part. Rest is not really an issue with game 5 on Tuesday, and this didn't allow the Bulls to salvage anything from this one to take into the next game. Though I doubt much 'carry-over' truly exists regardless, as evidenced by a team playing the Cavs so close for the first three contests to see such a huge disparity on Sunday.
What I think is an important lesson is not to believe that particular playoff performances will fluctuate the Bulls chances in free agency one way or the other. As much as I read how FAs were surely looking at these games as factors in their decision, the danger in that logic is that you have to then assume they see a poor performance like this and it hurts the Bulls chances. It probably doesn't, and playing well (while losing, mind you) didn''t help too much either. My theory is that it can't hurt, so no reason not to be excited about any showcase of the roster, but that roster hasn't changed even if the spotlight on them has. A roster that sometimes turns in games like this.
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No fuck that. We sucked…don’t blame the refs. I hate when ppl do that. The refs can only control so much….after the 1st quarter…we stopped competing. Kirk played his usual sub par game…We deserved this loss.
Very sub par,
we need more than 4 points from Joe Smith, Jr.(Taj)
by QUINTEN DALEY on Apr 26, 2010 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Losing by 30 and blaming the refs?
"Boozer's dumb ass jumped. So I dunked on his ass."-Joakim Noah
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 25, 2010 10:01 PM CDT up reply actions
a few, no doubt
but nothing that egregious, I thought anyway.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 25, 2010 10:58 PM CDT up reply actions
i missed the game; was roses ankle injury bad?
there is something awesome about Pargo, though.
Seriously. It’s kind of awe inspiring: he WILL shoot. He has no conscience. No remorse. He will shoot – the situation, the opponent, the country. He could be in zero gravity floating in orbit. The dude would be jacking up shots. And missing.
-MPG
In his press conference
he said he’ll get treatment and should be full strength on Tuesday. In other words it wasn’t too bad.
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.
It looked terrible on the replays, but he finished the game and was still aggressive. Hopefully it doesn’t limit his explosion for the next game.
yeah he made a few normal Rose moves afterwards
so it’ll probably be bad tomorrow but they have a rest day
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 25, 2010 10:59 PM CDT up reply actions
all i have to say is
we might be have been blown out in this game, but lebron was on the court in the middle of the fourth with the cavs up by more than 20 points. they are scared…..SCARED i tell ya!!!
but on a more serious note, i’m really excited for the future assuming we can get somebody this summer
Practice beats talent when talent doesn't practice.
by iamsasquatch on Apr 25, 2010 5:57 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
Bulls need some 3 point shooters this offseason.
They can’t stay in games when the lead gets to 10 or above.
Luol Deng 24 going on 54.
Or when the greatest basketball player in the Universe is hitting half court jump shots.
Luol Deng 24 going on 54.
And can u believe some Bulls fans are saying they wouldn't want LeBron to be a Bull????
What kind of craziness is that???
by lexdiamonds0730 on Apr 25, 2010 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Exactly...
The difference between him and D Wade is a very wide chasim. Watching LeBron is like watching a tornado destroy a small town……just freakin awesome!!
I'm Polish...what's your excuse?
Yeah, Wade is a terrific player...
but James is just on another level at this point (and has been for a few years now). The guy is an absolute beast.
Of course, I’d guess the odds of getting either are slim, so it’s probably a moot point.
by SouthernCub on Apr 26, 2010 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions
Its more a rooting interest
than a rational thought. I love rooting against LeBron, and that is always rewarding at some point in the year (until this year? Maybe?). LeBron is the best player in the universe but I can’t stand him and his chalk toss. Give me Bosh.
Bosh or Bust
by JockstrapNoah on Apr 25, 2010 7:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Actually Jockstrap, LeBron is only the best player in the MIlky Way Galaxy.
If you saw the recent photos from the Hubbel telescope it would be highly presumptous to assume he’s the best in the universe considering it’s vastness. But look at the bright side, not only would the Bulls become instant contenders and referee favorites, if LeBron’s chalk dust could be loaded with a substance that Neil Funk is highly allergic to, we could silence his stupid commentaries before the games even begin. Talk about a win-win situation.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Apr 25, 2010 9:19 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ha I hadn't thought about Funk.
You’d have to get rid of Funk because of the chalk allergies and he’d be ripping on LeBron constantly. He’s too “small”, doesn’t look like he’s trying, etc.
Bosh or Bust
by JockstrapNoah on Apr 25, 2010 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions
the Bulls need some 3pt shooting, some size down low and some wing players
with athleticism. But other than that, we are fine!
by Basketball Smurf on Apr 25, 2010 6:14 PM CDT reply actions 4 recs
Hey, JJ is athletic!!!!!
….and an absolutely terrible draft choice by the Bulls. I don’t really see him ever being any good.
Thrusting out of the playoff race, one injury at a time.
I'm convinced that JJ should be getting some minutes (if not most his minutes) at the 4
he is quick enough to stay with someone like Lebron James. He doesn’t have the foot speed. At the 4, maybe his big body allows him to bang with people and than he can take them off the dribble on the other end.
by Basketball Smurf on Apr 25, 2010 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions
I think he should have gotten more minutes period (3 or 4). Too late now though.
Playoff time so it’s too late to try to “work him in” now. But I thought he should have played a lot earlier in the season. You can never really tell what you have unless a guy is allowed to play through ups and downs and develop.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Apr 25, 2010 6:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, unfortunately though it seems like his bball IQ rivals that of Tyrus Thomas
It will be interesting to see if he “gets it,” but I’m a bit worried. Hopefully he can get in shape this offseason, at the least. He doesn’t look right out there.
Thrusting out of the playoff race, one injury at a time.
I don't see how he's quick enough to stay with LeBron when he can't keep up with Antwan Jamison.
Admittedly this is a small sample size and he barely played enough this season to warrant much discussion. On the other hand, he looked dreadful on defense. Late on every rotation, silly touch fouls.
"Boozer's dumb ass jumped. So I dunked on his ass."-Joakim Noah
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 25, 2010 7:25 PM CDT up reply actions
i meant to write
he isn’t quick enough to stay with someone like Lebron at the 4
by Basketball Smurf on Apr 25, 2010 8:29 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm guessing Kirk's performance on game 3 didn't fool anyone, huh?
3 out of 13, glue-guy? You’re killing us!
by JustAnotherFan on Apr 26, 2010 6:49 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
This game showed why you don't spend $10+ million dollars on a guy who can't create offense or post up!!
Granted he was matched up against LeBron James, we say today why Luol Deng isn’t worth what he’s being paid. He put up an empty 16 pts today. The Bulls REALLY need somebody else who can CREATE offense. It will take pressure off Rose to do so all the time. They also need a guy who can play with his back to the basket. Deng fails MISERABLY in both these categories yet he’s the guy the Bulls need most to do these two things. The same way Jamison played back to the basket and abused Deng, Deng needs to exploit others. It’s been 6 years and he has not improved in this area at all.
I’m with him, but at some point he’s gotta become more than just a spot up jump shot shooter. We may have to move him this summer if possible.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Apr 25, 2010 6:22 PM CDT reply actions
ok?
we say today why Luol Deng isn’t worth what he’s being paid
I think everyone even guys who like Deng knows that.
Been a while since I've been on here. But back in the day...
…I was Deng basher #1 and you had people defending Luol Deng at every turn. Let them tell it, Deng was the greatest thing since sliced bread. I couldn’t take it so I went away for a while. I don’t bash him as much because he does have value, but not as the kind of guy the Bulls need at his spot and at that salary.
So I wasn’t aware that everyone knew that T. Moore.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Apr 25, 2010 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm still more worried about our shooting guard who can't shoot
(one game for every ten doesn’t count)
by JustAnotherFan on Apr 26, 2010 6:53 AM CDT up reply actions
Oh there are still people who defend him
I think I’ve taken your crown as Deng basher #1 and have been close to being called an idiot for feeling that way. You bash Deng and his supporters have a million statistical reason why he’s a valued player. That type of stuff offends my basketball senses because I know what I’m looking at on the court.
I feel you Dils.
Yeah i remember them breaking out the +/- and all the other statistical measures. He didn’t pass the eyeball test I gave him though. Again, he’s been better and in the right system Deng can be the best 3rd or 4th option in the league. But he should be better than that and he isn’t. I just don’t see how he hasn’t become a better basketball player in 6 yrs.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Apr 25, 2010 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah well you're not the only one who "knows what they're looking at on the court"
Everybody here (well almost everybody) knows at least a thing or two about basketball. Acting like your basketball knowledge is far and away better than other people’s is what makes you look like a pompous idiot, not your Deng-bashing. And once again, you’ve posted something that implies that you really can’t understand the subjectiveness of the “eye test.” If that’s the case, you don’t just sound like an idiot, you are one.
Brad Miller is god.
by Poloplaya14 on Apr 25, 2010 7:14 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
I'm Dils-bashing
is Rose still just as good as Wade after today? is that enough proof or do you need to watch more tape.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 25, 2010 11:01 PM CDT up reply actions
I dont know where he got that from.
Rose still has to learn to get to that level. But everyone who doesn’t think Rose>Wade knows that.
it wasn't just a bad opinion
it was his annoying insistence on having people prove him wrong as if it was some kind of contest. Bad showing by Dils.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 25, 2010 11:07 PM CDT up reply actions
No it was the annoying insistance that
people just automatically call me a Homer without giving me a reason why they aren’t comparable. What’s the point of discussing opinions if it’s just cool for someone to say “Uh that’s just dumb” in a comment without adding anything to the discussion. I have no problem defending my opinions no matter how right or wrong they are.
Oh there he is
The guy that called me an idiot. Great.
Deng is not garbage.
Deng hasn’t lived up to his contract. Those are probably the only objective statements about Deng. Everything else is subjective, like, he’s not a creator, but he’s got tons of other skills. Maybe if Vinny was a different or better coach, he’d be able to utilize Deng in different ways. Deng is the type of player that a coach has to take advantage of.
Bosh or Bust
by JockstrapNoah on Apr 25, 2010 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
You mean a coach like Scott Skiles?
already did.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Apr 25, 2010 9:24 PM CDT up reply actions
"Everything else is subjective"
Not true. Here area couple other objective statements about Deng’s performance this year.
Deng’s PER is 16.07 (10th among SFs who’ve played 40+ games)
Deng averages 17.6 ppg (9th among SFs) and 7.3 rpg (4th among SFs)
Brad Miller is god.
by Poloplaya14 on Apr 25, 2010 11:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Sweet we'll be paying a guy 12 million
to be 10th among SFs in PER. What an accomplishment! Maggette, Kirilenko, Gerald Wallace, Danny Granger, and Rudy Gay are in front of him.
by LoveForTheGame on Apr 25, 2010 11:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Before you open your mouth, take a look at how much those guys are getting paid.
Here are the salary numbers of those guys.
Maggette – $8.9 mil
Kirilenko – $16.5 mil
Wallace – $9.1 mil
Granger- $9.9 mil
Gay’s on his rookie contract, but he’ll get $9-10 mil next year.
Compared to that, Deng’s salary doesn’t look so bad, does it? And you make that statement as if guys like Wallace and Granger aren’t all-star players. Deng’s contract looks even better when you look at the salaries of some the players ranked BEHIND him in PER.
Tayshaun Prince – $10.3 mil
Caron Butler – $9.8 mil
Hedo Turkoglu – $9 mil
Mike Dunleavy – $9.8 mil
RIchard Jefferson – $14.2 mil
Peja Stokakovic – $14.2 mil
Yeah I am cherry-picking names a little bit, but it’s pretty clear that when you look at Deng’s salary in comparison to other SFs, it doesn’t stand out all that much. He’s a little overpaid, but he’s not grossly overpaid. If he improves and boosts his production by a little bit, which isn’t that unreasonable since he’s only 24, he’ll be getting paid just about the right amount.
Brad Miller is god.
by Poloplaya14 on Apr 26, 2010 12:00 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Alright fair enough, so he's in a crowded group of over payed SF's
I’m not a huge Deng supporter based solely on how his offensive game doesn’t mesh with Derrick Rose and keeping him for a defensive standpoint doesn’t make sense considering how much he is making. It would be awesome if we can unload him in a S&T for Bosh, which is extremely doubtful because they just signed Hedo, who is a complete bust. If you look at the names of the SF’s on that list, how many are really on great teams?
by LoveForTheGame on Apr 26, 2010 12:15 AM CDT up reply actions
"he's in a crowded group of over payed SF's"
The whole point is that those guys are not overpaid. If the mean value of a data set is x, members of that data set with value x aren’t undervalued or overvalued. In other words, if the average salary of a 6th-10th best SF on the open market is $9-10 mil, guys making $9-10 mil aren’t being overpaid. Also, those guys all have escalating contracts, so the actual value of players like that is about $10-11 mil/year. Deng’s contract is slightly higher than that, making him slightly overpaid.
As for your point on how many are on really great teams, that’s kind of misleading to think about of it in those terms. Of the players you brought up, the one on the best team is Kirilenko, yet he’s clearly the most overpaid. Granger, Gay, Maggette, and Wallace can’t help it that the rest of the guys on their are mediocre. You can find good players on bad teams at every position. You didn’t mention Paul Pierce, who ranks 7th in PER, behind Maggette, Wallace, and Granger (he also get’s paid a lot more than those guys, incidentally). He’s on a pretty damn good team, is he not?
Brad Miller is god.
by Poloplaya14 on Apr 26, 2010 12:58 AM CDT up reply actions
If deng didn't get that contract (that he didn't deserve)
I wonder if people will still hate him (outside of Dils and Souleater of course)
I don't hate his play just because of his contract
I dislike him more because he’s not a durable player and mostly because his game doesn’t fit with Rose. Those are my main reasons
I think people rip on Deng because
he appears to be unathletic at times, the ever so reliable eye-ball test. I think these same people who value what they see over actual production are the same ones who think Kobe is better than LBJ because Kobe appears to be more graceful.
Based upon production, regardless of which metric you subscribe to, Deng is an above average player. Yes, he may be slightly overpaid but his contract is actually not too bad provided he stays healthy. As a matter of fact, Deng was a more efficient scorer than Rose this year averaging 1.21 points per shot compared to Rose’s 1.18 per shot.
Even if he's overpaid, I'd rather have him than many of the alternatives available to the Bulls.
He’s only three months older than Taj Gibson. If Luol Deng is your 2nd or 3rd best player, you’re probably screwed. But if Luol Deng is your 4th or 5th best player, and he can collect his steady 15 ppg and 6 rpg, play good team defense (he’s not a stopper, but he’s long and doesn’t make mistakes) and be a glue guy, you’re in pretty good shape. Right now we’re just asking him to do things he’s not suited to do. Put him on a good team where he fits (say, the jazz), and he’d seem way better than he is now. (Call that the Trevor Ariza corollary)
I agree
He’s a good player. He’s overpaid.
But I rather stick with his contract than Kirk’s he can play SF. Kirk can’t play the SG. Once we got rid of Kirk and add a real SG I will worry about Deng. For now I think he does well enough ate the position and could be solid enough should we add our prized FA.
by JustAnotherFan on Apr 26, 2010 6:58 AM CDT up reply actions
*14 and 8
Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!
*actualy, 17 and 8
Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!
i still question how good a fit Deng is with Rose
Deng needs motion, Rose needs a pick and roll offense. With a better coach, maybe the Bulls could incorporate both. But right now, the Bulls have Deng dribbling far too much and playing too far away from the basket too often.
by Basketball Smurf on Apr 25, 2010 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Do the Bulls have him playing away from the basket...
…or is he ineffective close to the basket when being competently defended? Can he post up when someone his own size is guarding him? I truly don’t know.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Apr 25, 2010 6:30 PM CDT up reply actions
there are other ways to score in close besides posting up
Deng use to score off of tons of basket cuts. He used to be very good using screens. The Bulls don’t do that type of stuff anymore
by Basketball Smurf on Apr 25, 2010 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions
You are absolutely right Smurf.
There are other ways, BUT the Bulls need some post offense and Deng is candidate #1. Why isn’t he better? His skill set has not improved since he got to Chicago. He can shoot better, but he’s not really a better basketball player. He hasn’t added anything to his game. I personally think that he gets those easy layups of cuts because his defenders fall asleep. But when they hone in and focus on stopping him, there really isn’t much he can do.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Apr 25, 2010 6:33 PM CDT up reply actions
listen, i'm not a Deng guy
i just think he can be utilized better. If the Bulls are going to commit to Deng, which it looks like they have, they absolutely need to put a more dynamic 2 guard next to him. His offensive play is stilted and his defense against athletic 3s isn’t as strong as a top team needs.
by Basketball Smurf on Apr 25, 2010 6:37 PM CDT up reply actions
I feel you Smurf. I just think if they are gonna commit to him...
…then it’s incumbent upon him to get better as well. Trust me, I’m with you on the more dynamic 2 guard and all the other points you make. I just think Deng needs to get better too.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Apr 25, 2010 6:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Better question is why commit to a guy with Deng's weaknesses?
That’s what we need to be asking ourselves.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Apr 25, 2010 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Because there's not a realistic chance of getting someone better.
Brad Miller is god.
by Poloplaya14 on Apr 25, 2010 7:17 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
We need a better SG regardless
Kirk CANNOT shot
by JustAnotherFan on Apr 26, 2010 6:59 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm convinced that 90% of the time we're not actually running any type of set play
Thrusting out of the playoff race, one injury at a time.
I think Del Negro's "pick-and-roll" offense allows him not to really call any plays...
…while still having an “offense”. Unlike last year, where the “iso” offense was blatantly obvious to nothing structured. I guess with at least two guys involved, one can claim to be coaching?
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
I've been saying that for a while
This summer I would try to sign either Bosh or Amare using the cap space. Then unload Deng for a SG that can shoot a TON of threes.
by LoveForTheGame on Apr 25, 2010 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Sign and Trade with Toronto is our best bet
Dumping Hinrich and Deng should work numbers wise. Toronto gets a little something out of the deal and Bosh gets a few more bucks in his pocket.
Then, um... play James Johnson at SF?
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
I was saying
A shooting guard that can shoot A TON of threes is more valuable than a SF that doesn’t fit into our offensive system, but has a good defensive game. There’s only so much money the Bulls can throw around and a team can’t win a championship without three point shooting.
by LoveForTheGame on Apr 25, 2010 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions
I wouldn't put ANY thought into what the offensive "system" is right now.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
I would trade Deng for Mayo and a long term contract to match salaries
in a heartbeat. Plus, Mayo’s defense is underrated and he’s an excellent three point shooter. He would be a great fit alongside Rose. The grizzlies have a need at the SF position because Rudy is going to be gone and the Grizzlies don’t seem to happy with Mayo after shopping him for Monta Ellis.
by LoveForTheGame on Apr 25, 2010 10:40 PM CDT up reply actions
That's a pretty no-brainer trade, one that is pretty unrealistic.
You have no idea if Memphis won’t match Gay’s offer sheet if another team decides to pursue him. They already have Ronnie Brewer who can play at the SF spot, and if they’re going to be cheap and not bring back Gay, I doubt they let go one of the more exciting players on the team for a long-term contract.
"Boozer's dumb ass jumped. So I dunked on his ass."-Joakim Noah
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 25, 2010 10:45 PM CDT up reply actions
There's a very likely chance that he is gone. People have been saying that they traded for Brewer, so they didn't have to pay Gay.
Monta Ellis=Long Term Contract and they wanted him. The Grizzlies really don’t make sense. They traded for Randolph, who is a long term contract and that worked out for them. They make questionable moves that work out in the end like the Gasol move. It’s tough to understand the Grizzlies. Maybe there is something they like in Deng, so I would at least try to make that trade.
by LoveForTheGame on Apr 25, 2010 10:49 PM CDT up reply actions
I would trade Deng for any player who was useful
but with a better contract. If the Bulls could give him away, I would. I just don’t see it happening. I think he is a slightly above average player who doesn’t do anything great and makes too much money. The lack of athleticism and shooting on the wings with Deng/Hinrich at the 2 and the 3 is pretty striking. One of them has to go to the bench next year or just go.
by Basketball Smurf on Apr 25, 2010 11:00 PM CDT up reply actions
There's always this hope that the Bulls can luck out in the draft this year and get an athletic SG that can drain threes
Then it would allow us to keep Hinrich on the bench or at least in the near future until the SG develops. Then we could sign Bosh this summer. Rose, SG from draft, Deng, Bosh, and Noah would be a very athletic lineup. But this is all of course really, really hypothetical. I agree we can’t survive with both our 2 and 3 being unathletic.
by LoveForTheGame on Apr 25, 2010 11:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Of course this is a picture perfect
We need three point shooting badly, which would create better spacing to help our offensive efficiency. It would also help out Rose to drive, then get double-teamed, then he could kick back out to an open player for three. LeBron does this all the time and the Cavs have a ridiculous amount of three point threats on their roster (probably best in the league), especially after getting Jamison. It would also clear out some paint for Noah and potentially Bosh to do some work down low.
by LoveForTheGame on Apr 25, 2010 11:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Deng is a slasher who plays without the ball.
Vinny’s offense played down to his strenghs and exposed his weaknesses, but then Vinny can’t teach what he doesn’t know……which is plenty.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Apr 25, 2010 9:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Those 16 points were hardly empty
If you were watching the game in the first half you would’ve noticed that Deng was hitting the shots that were keeping the game close. I think he went into half-time with 12 or 14 (obviously his disappearance in the second half contributed to the loss, but only Noah did anything of worth in the 2nd half).
Had high hopes for this game
I knew it was gonna be extremely hard, but i had faith in this team, because they played very hard the first three games. The wheels seemed to fall off when James Johnson started fouling everybody in the building. Long distance shooting from the Cavs and more fouls from the Bulls didn’t help. On a brighter note, the Bulls will have at least one more game to show to the potential free agents. Last but not least, even though Derrick was struggling a little bit, he and Noah are gonna be even bigger monsters in the future. I think we can all count on that!!!
The wheels came off when the Bulls didn't shoot 59% to start the game.
The only time the Bulls are TRULY dangerous is when they are hitting everything. If not, then you can squeeze Derrick Rose and cut off all his driving lanes because the Bulls have no lights out shooters or consistent post up threats to rely on when the game slows down.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Apr 25, 2010 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed
One can certainly make the case that they are a hit or miss team, literally. As you say, if they hit their shots, they are dangerous, if not, they get blown off, like tonight. Maybe with all of their injuries they didn’t have enough time/games to really have the feel for the game when everyone is playing and playing well. Who knows. It will definitely be one of the most intriguing summers for the Bulls since 1998, that’s for sure.
I hope it doesn't turn out like the 98'-99' season.
I couldn’t take that…lol.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Apr 25, 2010 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions
LOL
Oh yeah!!! I remember watching that as a kid, anxiously waiting for the draft and seeing who they will get, who was gonna be their coach, etc. I almost gave up on them….until Scott Skiles and 2004 came along…..We definitely need someone like Wade and another solid player, hopefully a bigger physical presence like Bosh, Boozer, or Amare. I’m not a biggest fan of trying to fudgepack a team with a million all stars, but I think if the Bulls do get Wade and say Bosh, that wouldn’t be overdoing it.
I watched it as a grown man and the only thing keepin' me around was that...
…I remember the Bulls in the early 80s when I was a kid. They were pretty bad and then a ray of hope named Michael Jordan showed up in 1984. When the two greatest Bulls ever took off in 98’ and we endured that horrible stretch I remembered those early 80s days and hoped and prayed. Then came Derrick Rose (no MJ but damn good). Early personal success/team struggles. But then came MASSIVE success!! Let’s hope history repeats itself.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Apr 25, 2010 6:41 PM CDT up reply actions
God! I will pray for that, that's for sure!
It certainly looks like a familiar scene doesn’t it? Possibly VDN leaving, a real good coach could take over (ala Phil in 89/90), two game changers in Rose/Noah (Jordan/Pippen), and potentially another great player (Wade, Amare, Bosh, Boozer)….That would be sick! 50+ win season next year, no problem…
I think
you misunderstand the colloquial usage of “fudgepack”.
by El Toro de Goro on Apr 26, 2010 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Have question about the crowd..
I realize watching OKC play is probably not helping this but was the crowd just totally silent during the game? My gf and I thought the crowd was pretty lame. I know the Bulls didn’t give them much to cheer about but I just kinda felt like there wasn’t much effect from the crowd today.
Luol Deng 24 going on 54.
Good point
My thinking is that this team has been so up and down all year, that they don’t know what to expect. On the other hand, these are the playoffs, the Bulls are playing the best team in the league (record wise) and should be pumped up about it!
That OKC crowd reminded me of
The Golden State Warriors Crowd when they beaten the Mavs a few years back. Its like a college atmosphere. ButBut they never made the playoffs that often. And its OKCs 1st time. The crows should have been better i guess tho.
You should have seen some of the Eurocup/Euroleague games in Serbia.
That was nuts, they were chanting, cheering, booing, clapping, and standing up the whole game. Made the Cameron Indoor Center look like a high school gym. Sorry if i’m being random, lo!
Can't compare the two
The Ford Center is built to go up, not out like the United Center. The noise stays in like it did at the old Chicago Stadium. I’m not saying OKC fans weren’t great, I’m just saying that the UC can’t get that loud because it’s not built to hold the sound in. Not to mention that this is a much bigger deal to OKC than it is to Chicago. When you have seen 6 titles and the greatest player to ever play, you just don’t get as up for being an 8 seed in a throwaway year.
by Niwrad on Apr 25, 2010 7:52 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I was there
The crowd was really amped up at the start. Couldnt hear them even announce Noah or Rose during the intros. Thought it was solid for most of the first half. The Cavs run at the end of the half though seemed to take the wind out of everyone and the Bulls never really gave them anything else to cheer about.
And as I’ve mentioned before, the Bulls crowd doesn’t sound that good on TV based on a number of reasons. There have been many times I’ve come back thinking the crowd was great and watching the replay to think it wasn’t that good. I’ve also been to a lot of other arenas. The United Center will never get as loud as OKC or others that are much smaller and built differently, but it gets pretty into the games and I thought they were good today.
I agree
The crowd was electric and just waiting for a moment to explode, it was just that the Cavs stepped on the Bulls throat from the get-go and didn’t let up.
The telecast really doesn’t give the UC crowd justice. Now I’ve been to regular season games where they’ve been half asleep, but this playoff game was not the case.
"Deng is fired" - Neil Funk
by RogersPark Kris on Apr 26, 2010 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions
The UC is a victim of its own attendance records.
The place is too freaking big, so it’s like cheering in a cavern.
Other than the Blazers/Jazz/Warriors, and this year the Thunder most teams have irrelevant home-court advantage.
"Boozer's dumb ass jumped. So I dunked on his ass."-Joakim Noah
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 25, 2010 9:59 PM CDT up reply actions
it was 2:30 on a Sunday
that doesn’t help
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 25, 2010 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Whatever, we've got a couple entertaining games out of this series
with at least one more to go. This playoff series has definitely been a success from a team standpoint with us gaining playoff experience and the potential luring of a 2010 free-agent because of “The Team on the Rise” motto. LeBron is too dominant to win a couple games off of him with this undermanned bulls team.
all i saw from this series
is that we are damn lucky to have gotten derrick rose and isiah saved us by giving us noah
Good point. Derrick Rose on the lucky 1st pick and Noah on a bad NY trade.
Where would the Bulls be today without those two guys????
by lexdiamonds0730 on Apr 25, 2010 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions
But this organization has dealt with a lot of unlucky breaks as well
like Jay Williams
by LoveForTheGame on Apr 25, 2010 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions
What other unlucky events?
Jay Will was tragic, but I’d say the Bulls have been beneficiaries of great luck as well.
- Jordan
- Rose (when there is NO WAY the Bulls should have landed pick #1 that year)
by lexdiamonds0730 on Apr 25, 2010 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, it's more of our managements fault
but Ben Wallace didn’t work out, Eddy Curry/Tyson Chandler experiment didn’t work out. i’m just saying that every team deals with luck and failure, it’s the nature of the NBA.
by LoveForTheGame on Apr 25, 2010 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
yeah, but Williams sucked.
and that was stupidity on his part, not bad luck
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
It was bad luck for the organization
and stupidity for the individual
by LoveForTheGame on Apr 25, 2010 10:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Off-topic, but can anyone explain why Dampier starts over Haywood?
Thrusting out of the playoff race, one injury at a time.
just cuz he always has
you know old people and being set in their ways and grumpy if change it and all that
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
NBA scouts
according to them Bulls run at most 5 plays, the simplest offense in league, at most just above high school level, this speaks volumes about the how much has been invested in this team, wonder that we got this far.
by sugarbear06 on Apr 25, 2010 6:43 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
As a fan
It was really hard putting up with this wasted year, but how can you witness this ass whipping we took and not learn what an NBA team looks like.
I mean that you said that we are the most predictable team in the leauge
Just saying that reminded me of the bears former OC Ron Turner
by T.Moore on Apr 25, 2010 10:56 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
thats part of the strategy!
when vinny yells attack opposing teams have no idea what they are going to do
are they going to come from the left? from the right? YOU JUST DONT KNOW!!
Exactly, and neither does Vinny
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Apr 25, 2010 9:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Today was a no-lose
If we win, I could be happy that the Bulls won and I could enjoy Lebron sulking for a couple more days and if we lose One day closer to post VDN.
some people beg to differ
I’m not one of them either. But true we had nothing to lose. Unless BOSH doesn’t want to sign here now
LOL
Yeah. I feel kind of sorry for VDN though. Don’t want to go into too many details over this, but concidering that half of the team was injured for periods of time (see 10 game losing streak), how they traded Salmons, Gordon and Thomas, the 35 pt lead loss, the Brad Miller buzzer beater that was called no-good, the Bogut-less Bucks loss, the horrible loss to the NETS in 2 OT….It could have been much better, potentially a #5 seed with a little luck here and a little luck there, and with the trades and injuries……? If anything, the front office and Jpaxson should be blamed for a large chunk of it, regarding the trades. I know it was for the summer free agents, but still…
Michael Beasley or Derrick Rose
Could this be payback for Miami getting Wade, while we got Heinrich.
The Bulls will definitely return to the United Center
but only to clean out their lockers and say goodbye to each other.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Apr 25, 2010 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Hate to say it.
But a lot of people claim the Cavs don’t take the Bulls serious and they r just playing with us.
Rose was pissed for game 3
They said he kept running linto people passing out fliers for Cavs parties and it pissed him off that they were interested in partying that prepaaring for the Bulls.
Really?
Well, I really, REALLY wanted us to win this game. I knew we weren’t gonna win the series to begin with, but I thought the home crowd would be a factor. Like everyone’s been saying, when the shots start clanking off the rim as they did tonight, we can pretty much say goodbye. It’s hard against any team, but against a 60+win team? Tough….Bring on next year, Wade and Bosh, baby!
It's funny how they didn't learned their lesson last year
they have the best player not the best team. Orlando could beat them again. The lakers are a better team when healthy – which is not the case this year – and the same goes with the Spurs. And OKC is really big guy away from becoming a major force.
by JustAnotherFan on Apr 26, 2010 7:10 AM CDT up reply actions
Of course they don't
It really goes with their relaxed attitude, but they know (maybe) that the Bulls are as streaky as a team comes these days, and that if they let off a little bit, like game 3, the could lose. A 61 win season will do that you, when you are going up against someone who just made the playoffs on the very last day of the regular season. Unfortunately we don’t have the insane 3 point shooters, the luck of the irish like the Warriors of 2007 did, lol.
Hinrich was the Key
When he was hitting the outside shot in game 3, that was key, going 1 for 8, is the death blow, for us, We are so close that if we get a couple of quality players we will be a force.
They can't win with Shaq, thats what I think.
Next year they’ll be rid of their slow centers and they’ll have to commit to being a different team.
Bosh or Bust
by JockstrapNoah on Apr 25, 2010 7:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Shaq to me depends on the teams matchups but they seem jammed with the big men and may lead to Lebron going back to his 5 man show.
Of course theres LA if they get their big men troubles together. Orlando still isn’t taken very seriously and the Celtics do have some players who are turning it on. I’d say right now though Spurs would be the favorite to me.
If this Dallas series is what they needed to me everything for them is just falling into place.
I agree
Still a lot of contenders this year. The cavs may have a cakewalk in the east (except against orlando) but whoever wins in the west is going to give them trouble.
by JustAnotherFan on Apr 26, 2010 7:12 AM CDT up reply actions
Stats:
Just looked at the stats, whether any of you care or not at this point. The Cavs made 8 more threes, shot 53.2% from the field, and had 7 more assists than the Bulls. Those sort of numbers will beat many if not all teams. Good passing+Excellent shooting vs no ball movement+a lot of jump shots created by individual plays= a 23 point beatdown.
Today=evidence the Cavs are a real team, whereas the Bulls have three above average players running around doing stuff.
It wasn’t even noticeable, but their defensive effort just shot through the roof in that 2nd quarter. James took it up a notch, the big men were no longer giving Rose easy paths to the basket. They turned us back into a jumpshooting team, and the Bulls didn’t make any.
"Boozer's dumb ass jumped. So I dunked on his ass."-Joakim Noah
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 25, 2010 7:30 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
'The Bulls have 3 above average players running around doing stuff'
Greatest description of this team I’ve heard.
by Stacey_Is_King on Apr 25, 2010 9:00 PM CDT up reply actions
James Johnson
was awful. Warrick was awful. Even Miller was awful. The Bulls were uncompetitive as much from a lack of depth as from a lack of Rose aggressiveness or Deng + Hinrich disappearing. Next year they need to commit to bringing along James Johnson because there is no way they can sign enough good free agents as to have a deep and valuable bench.
Bosh or Bust
Agreed.
Deng wasn’t too bad in stretches today, but sort of went away in the second half, that’s NOT GOOD. Hinrich was 3-13 and got 10 points! In 9 minutes, Johnson had 5, 5 FOULS! Brad Miller, even though it might be too much to expect him to deliver every night, didn’t do all that well tonight, and Taj Gibson def. disappeared. Only three players playing great in case of Noah, and decent (Rose and Deng) isn’t gonna get it done. 26-32, for 81.3% from the foul line isn’t too bad though, that could be the only “team” bright spot today, lol
I think its clear that this is going to be a 2 year project...
no matter who we sign.
I saw T2 at Walgreens in Deerfield he’s tall. if you’re wondering what his grocery list included: magnums, french vanilla ice cream and a 20 oz sprite
by Super-Structure on Apr 25, 2010 8:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah..even if we sign Bosh and somehow pull a sign and trade to have enough room to get
Joe Johnson we will still need a SF. It doesn’t look like JJ is going to cut it lol.
Bosh 2010!!!!!
But if they get Bosh/Wade/LeBron
first they’ll be labeled instant contenders, and then, they’ll make the playoffs with room to spare. If you are going to make the playoffs with room to spare, give the rookies minutes, even if they suck, and James Johnson will suck next year too. Ugh, as someone said in a different thread:
Step 1) Sign Baller FA.
Step 2) ???
Step 3) Championship!!!
Step 2 is pretty useless to think about until Step 1 is successful. Still, no matter what, James Johnson will be one of two players next year with undeveloped talent and the Bulls need to commit to developing it.
Bosh or Bust
by JockstrapNoah on Apr 25, 2010 8:14 PM CDT up reply actions
I think Johnson needs to prove himself worthy of a commitment from the team.
If he shows up out of shape again and doesn’t show marked improvement in his shot/defense, it would be hard to justify giving him significant minutes.
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.
For as bad as Vinny D is
It took Mike Brown 3 games to realize that a smaller lineup with Lebron at PF would kill us. How that man has a job is beyond me.
I don't think it's that crazy for him to try and work his bigs in
he doesn’t care about the Bulls, they are not a threat. Shaq just came back from several weeks off, and they’ll need him against Dwight Howard.
That said if Shaq is never going to get much better than this then he’ll have to know when to pull the plug.
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"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 25, 2010 11:06 PM CDT up reply actions
This^.
As much as we’d like to think otherwise, this series is nothing more than appetizer for the Cavs. Yeah, it’s the playoffs, but a series like this affords an opportunity to try some things that may not pay off now, but later down the road, against the Magic.
Furthermore, in his post-game presser, Brown said that the plan today was to extend Shaq’s minutes, but the Diesel got himself into foul trouble so he decided to go small(er).
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.
They need a guy in the bench to answer when LeBron says
“Who is my bitch?”
by JustAnotherFan on Apr 26, 2010 7:18 AM CDT up reply actions
Deng should be used in a Sign and Trade as quickly as possible.
The Bulls need some freaking shooters asap. At this point I don’t care if it’s Mike Miller and Kyle Korver.
Bosh 2010!!!!!
Off Topic
But isn’t there some guy overseas who the Bulls have rights to? Was talking to a friend about this at the game but we couldn’t figure out his name.
Omar Asik is a 7 foot shot blocking low post center from Turkey who is supposed to be talented but
has had surgery for torn knee ligaments and broke his collarbone last December. If we get Wade, and this guy is healthy maybe Hubie Brown’s idea of moving Joachim to Power Forward would be a good idea next season.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Apr 25, 2010 9:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes!!
He’s the LeBron stopper!
Luol Deng 24 going on 54.
by SoulEater7 on Apr 25, 2010 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Veektor wants back in the league
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"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 25, 2010 11:06 PM CDT up reply actions
He just won DPOY
in the Euroleague. Thats a pretty big honor (Rubio came in 2nd).
Bosh or Bust
by JockstrapNoah on Apr 26, 2010 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions
eff the Bulls.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Manu Ginnobli went 4 for 16 while TIm Duncan was only 1 of 9
yet the Spurs beat the Mavs tonight 92-89. It shows that great coaching can overcome mediocre shooting nights with solid defense and having other options when their main guns aren’t producing. What would Vinny have done? Oh I know, he would have brought in Pargo and Warrick to provide a spark.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
what?
Watching LeBron is like watching a tornado destroy a small town……just freakin awesome!!by Juannieboy on Apr 25, 2010 6:37 PM CDT
Sounds like he's ripping on Vinny.
Pretty reasonably too.
Bosh or Bust
by JockstrapNoah on Apr 25, 2010 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions
The ripping doesn't make sense though
The Spurs have A LOT more depth than the Bulls, it’s not even close. If Rose, Noah, or Deng has an off-night than we have no one to rely on. Our bench consists of Brad Miller and Flip Murray. The Spurs have Parker, Bonner, Mason JR, and Blair off the bench. It’s not Vinny’s fault that management couldn’t supply him with depth and it’s not his fault that they traded away some usable players at the deadline for virtual cap space for the summer. And the Bulls strength is defense, so that is not a valid argument. The reason to rip Vinny is for offensive play-calling/execution, as well as some questionable rotations.
by LoveForTheGame on Apr 25, 2010 10:34 PM CDT up reply actions
I completely agree that management has left Vinny with a large load of excrement on the bench.
Unfortunately when he did have some depth he failed to develop it….Fish, Tyrus, Thabo. His offensive sets are literally offensive when watching how the elite teams execute. It’s time for him to go. It doesn’t take Einstein to win some games with our starting 5.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Apr 25, 2010 11:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, with Salmons he's nearly 30, or he might be 30, I know he's long past his developing stage. He's in his prime.
So VDN could only do so much in developing him. He played extremely well last year, but this season it was a mixture of him going through a slump as well as our offensive system that allowed these struggles of his. VDN gets the blame for the offensive system aspect and we were planning on trading him anyways solely for cap room. Tyrus Thomas has shown that can be a game-changer at the defensive end, but was not a good offensive player. It seems that Larry Brown is not entirely on Tyrus’s side either, which begs me to wonder if he will be a journeyman in this league that fails to get along with coaching, or whatever. I am with you that Tyrus still should’ve been given more of a chance under VDN’s watch given his outstanding defensive presence, he would have helped a ton this playoff series. Thabo was in an extremely difficult situation because he was behind Gordon, Hinrich, Salmons, and Deng for PT when VDN was here, so that was also a toss-up on whether he had the PT available to allow him to develop.
by LoveForTheGame on Apr 26, 2010 12:24 AM CDT up reply actions
I remember at the time
I was all for Thabo being traded to the Thunder, as well as most of this blog because of the amount of depth we had at the SG/SF spots. The Bulls had said they were going to attempt to sign BG this summer, which was a glimmer of hope and I assumed Salmons would be on the roster this entire year. Now, Thabo would’ve been a perfect fit for us. The Bulls fail at planning, big time.
by LoveForTheGame on Apr 26, 2010 12:27 AM CDT up reply actions
Well that 1st rounder turned into Taj GIbson.
WIthout him we’d have a pretty sorry frontcourt.
Brad Miller is god.
Yes it turned out very well for us, plus Taj is on a rookie deal and Thabo isn't
But it still shows that the Bulls fail at planning considering that Taj and JJ play practically the same position. I have always felt that JJ is better used at the 4 and I’m not saying this to help my argument.
by LoveForTheGame on Apr 26, 2010 1:11 AM CDT up reply actions
They have entirely different games though
James Johnson could play the 4, but he’d be more of a stretch 4 who can hit the 3, face up and take his guy off the dribble, as opposed to Taj who’s a low-post player. It’s not like they can’t coexist.
Brad Miller is god.
Then Noah can be our SG!
He’ll get like 50 rebounds a game!
Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!
Also, Thabo has improved a pretty good deal since being traded
I don’t know if he would’ve improved that much sitting on the bench behind BG, Salmons, and Kirk.
Brad Miller is god.
Thabo hasn’t improved. He still can’t shoot, can’t hit the open 3 which is all he has to do. Maybe he’s a little less turnover-prone now, but this is his 4th year so he should be.
He has to guard Kobe
and he has to defer to Durant. He does those very well for 2.5 mil.
Bosh or Bust
by JockstrapNoah on Apr 26, 2010 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions
His defense is what's improved
He always was a good defender due to his athleticism, but now hes a lot smarter and truly is one if, if not the best, man-to-man perimeter defenders in the league.
Brad Miller is god.
Meh, it's a much different situation than that.
Frankly Dallas was a better team the whole season, but the SA guards are just destroying Jason Kidd just like Chris Paul did a few years back. Duncan was only 1 of 9 but he also did a fantastic job on Dirk denying the ball.
"Boozer's dumb ass jumped. So I dunked on his ass."-Joakim Noah
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 25, 2010 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions
its amazing that rose had 10 layups today (6 made) and only got fouled twice. he really needs to throw his
body around better.
there is something awesome about Pargo, though.
Seriously. It’s kind of awe inspiring: he WILL shoot. He has no conscience. No remorse. He will shoot – the situation, the opponent, the country. He could be in zero gravity floating in orbit. The dude would be jacking up shots. And missing.
-MPG
Yeah, I think that's it
He can just naturally allow himself to try and score, he has to make the extra effort to draw contact.
by Stacey_Is_King on Apr 25, 2010 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions
A series like this magnifies the Bulls woes on offense.
They have no sets. The Cavs offense isn’t nearly as smooth as that of the Jazz, but even they(Cleveland) have solid sets with first, second and third options. They get lots of easy shots off of backcuts and various screens, while the Bulls just wait around for Rose to do his thing. Sure, having Lebron occupy the attention of several defenders on every possession helps, but there’s more to it than that.
A couple of the Bulls sets:
- The wave. Maybe the most useless of the team’s sets, as even when executed properly, the result is usually a medium-long two pointer. It’s very easy to defend, especially against a poor shooting team like the Bulls, and Hubie Brown called them out on it today. All the Cavs did was go under all of the screens and handoffs, daring the Bulls guards to shoot those long twos. The worst type of play is one that even when executed properly, still sucks.
- Rose giving it off to Kirk at the top of the key, Kirk passing it to Noah and Noah giving it back to D-Rose when he bounces back to the three point line. It’s useless, as more often than not Rose gets the ball back in a similar spot to where he had the ball originally, but with the shot clock down 5 or 6 seconds.
- That might be it as far as sets go. If you guys can recall any other (surely useless) ones, please fill me in.
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.
I agree Dakoose. The Bulls limited offensive sets relied heavily last year
besides Rose penetrating and using his quickness to either get to the paint or stop quickly and launch a teardrop or medium jumper, on isolation plays by Gordon or Salmons, both who could provide spacing by being able to hit a 3 fairly consistently or create off the dribble when the play breaks down. As you said the Bulls run all sorts of high screens for Derrick and most of them just bring the defense to him.
Without that three point threat the Cavs can collapse on Rose and he has to fight through double and triple coverage. When Kirk found his range in game 3, the Bulls offense was clicking. If they don’t beat teams down the court with their speed, the half-court game tends to stagnate except for an occasional pick and pop to Brad when he’s converting or Luol from long range. Deng either settles for a long jumper or tries slashing to the rim but doesn’t have the speed or ball skills to consistently beat his man.
When the jumpers aren’t falling they look totally out of synch in contrast to the Cavs as you pointed out with their back cuts and ability to hit the open 3 as the Bulls get lost in the switches. All Vinny can offer in response is a silent prayer that Derrick will bail them out or Noah’s energy will keep the ball alive.
They have no low post game except for the rare times when Taj can work his way in against weaker forwards or Warrick makes a move inside but Warrick is such a supreme defensive liability he almost always gives back more than he can deliver. So the Bulls need Kirk to come up with a strong offensive game (unlikely) or Luol not to have a typical 2nd half fade and of course for Rose to put up big numbers as their only real offensive threat to have a chance in game 5.
If the Bulls ever expect to consistently go offensively, Vinny has to go…..out the door.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Apr 26, 2010 2:49 AM CDT up reply actions
Whatever happens, happens
Sure there is one more game, and for the sake of pride and Rose and Noah’s willing them through, the Bulls will (I think) fight through game 5, although it will probably be in a losing effort. Remember guys, the Bulls barely got into the playoffs in the first place, and although once you are in anything can happen, and you should be playing your heart out, the ultimate goal is the future. I don’t know what management is thinking right now, or who they would like to see in a Bulls uniform next year, but one thing is certain, if they want to see the Bulls reach the promise land once more, they are gonna have to make smarter decicsions. Injuries have also killed the Bulls the last couple of years, and one can see how bad injuries are, to any team. One thing is for certain, Noah and Rose have arrived, and they are here to stay!
Let's be positive for a brief second and admire Noah's game
That freak can play! I just hope Bosh don’t force a sign and trade. The raptors would certainly push for Noah.
This series has made me quite optimistic actually
Sure we got blown out yesterday, but that’s one game. I don’t think the Bulls are all that far off. The Bulls already have championship pieces on their team in Rose and Noah. Even if neither player got better than they already are, they would still be great pieces. Rose is a guy who can get off a good shot (or a tough shot that he will make regularly) any time he wants. Would it be nice if he got to the line? Sure. Three pointers? More please. But Rose is already a great piece for the amazing shots he can already make. Besides, with one summer of work, Rose’s midrange game went from mediocre, to deadly (as far as deep midrange games go). Rose’s line from 16-23 ft out: 44% on 6.9 FGA, and 34% assisted. This is freakin incredible. True, I’d like him to take less, but there are very few NBA players that take that many unassisted shots from that far and still make that high a percentage. Nash and CP3 make 46%. Rose is right there. Rose went from 38% to 50% on short midrange shots, despite being assisted on a lower percentage of them! If Rose can make strides in his 3pt shot over the summer, look out.
Noah is another fantastic piece. He rebounds at a rate near that of Dwight Howard and Marcus Camby. He finishes well inside and is becoming a much better passer. Furthermore, he runs the floor quite well for a big man. Heck, I’d rather have Noah dribbling than Deng most times. Noah brings you rebounding and efficient scoring.
I really think the Bulls are 1.5 pieces away. The one piece the Bulls really need is someone who can share the scoring load without needing help from Rose. Noah is starting to score more, but his game is dependent on Rose assists and rebounding. This player could be a wing in Rudy Gay, Wade, or LeBron, or could be a big man in Amare or Bosh. The half a piece is players who shoot very very well from 3pt range. A Mike Miller type would be awesome, but the Bulls need multiple players to do this, so hopefully the Bulls get a coach who will encourage Deng to step back two inches.
I am really optimistic. I believe any of LeBron, Wade, Amare, or Bosh makes the Bulls instant contenders (assuming they keep Deng, Noah, Rose). Heck, I think Rudy Gay and David Lee could make the Bulls contenders if Rose takes another big leap. The Bulls are close. This summer could change the franchise forever.
I'm optimistic too but
i can’t shake the feeling we would have been much better this year if we kept BG instead of Kirk…
by JustAnotherFan on Apr 26, 2010 7:41 AM CDT up reply actions
You know what's funny...
I was on another site and had the same idea about Gay and Lee and they “fans” shot it down. My point was that they worry to much about “names” and don’t look at numbers. Men lie, women lie, numbers don’t. Lee 20PPG 11RPG
Fan is short for fanatic, so I guess I'm a supporter......realisticoptimist
by realisticoptimist on Apr 26, 2010 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions
While I'm not a hater of Gay or Lee
the number thing must be approached with caution. Just look at 76ers and elton brand. And from a number perspective there is no point and acquiring Gay while having Deng unless you can pay less for it.
by JustAnotherFan on Apr 26, 2010 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions
If we do lose, I just hope it's not another one of these
Please give us a close game that we can watch till the end..
I'm cuckoo for Kukoc!!!
Maybe they should call up the Grizzlies.....
Didn’t they do a straight up trade Gasol for Kwame Brown? Maybe they would take Deng of our hands for Gay….Hinrich and Deng make me laugh at every miss shot. I just break out in uncontrollable laughter….
Fan is short for fanatic, so I guess I'm a supporter......realisticoptimist
by realisticoptimist on Apr 26, 2010 10:29 AM CDT reply actions
Yeah they did...
…because Jerry West was “acting” as GM for the Grizzlies, when he was really the “Inside Man” for the Lakers. LOL! No GM in the League would’ve ever approved that deal. That’ll NEVER happen again, EVER.
J.I.
by Jeye15 The Legend on Apr 26, 2010 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Off topic, I was extremely
pissed Reggie Miller said Westbrook is better than Rose, is he watching film, the Bulls wouldn’t even be a playoff team with Westbrook, and OKC might even have been a 5th or 6th seed.
when did he say that?
I remember it differently. He said something like “I’m going to have to start re-thinking who the league’s quickest player is…I’ve always said Westbrook, but I think it might be Rose”
I’m not saying you’re wrong, I just never remember hearing Reggie say that.
I think you are 90% right
but I think he said Westbrook was the quickest player in the league end to end
by Basketball Smurf on Apr 26, 2010 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions
that's what i heard on my tv too, haveabeer
but consider this:
reggie miller ucla bruins 1987
russell westbrook ucla bruins 2008
also, reggie is a big fool who runs his mouth, imho. guess that’s why he gots the job he do? (it can’t be broadcasting skill!)
The name of the team is ARIZONA DIAMONDBACKS
by marionette on Apr 26, 2010 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Westbrook is a really good player in a team beating the Lakers
He’s looking good. But I’ll keep my vote on Rose.
by JustAnotherFan on Apr 27, 2010 7:56 AM CDT up reply actions
Bottomline is...
…we played with NO energy. We didn’t play the same way we did in the first 3 games of the series. At least in the other losses, we played with more energy and pride- game 4 found us playing “lifeless” basketball. Especially after we started the game off with on the right track, but after a barrage of 3’s- we reverted back to “Baby Bulls” staus. Which made it an ugly game to watch, that, and the ref’s blowing the whistle every half a minute. They blew the whistle on “regualr season” fouls, and i THOUGHT that this was the PLAYOFFS. (“Playoffs!? PLAYOFFS!??” LOL!) Regardless of the outcome, (which i HOPE is a Bulls victory!)- i hope we play real BULLS basketball in Game 5.
J.I.
by Jeye15 The Legend on Apr 26, 2010 1:40 PM CDT reply actions
I couldnt
help but think “what if we still had BG instead of that kid from Iowa”
Watching Kaptain Squirt play 2 gaurd basketball makes me wanna puke. I was just watching that BG mix -goodbye chicago, man we could use a gaurd who can fill it up.
With D Rose moving into superstar territory as well as JONO, a bonafide sharp shooter like BG would be frucking sweet. I actually miss BG thats how bad Kurt is. Bulls front office blows.
Any chance we can get BG back for KH? I’d make that trade any day of the week…
Ahh well one more game then VDN is gone atleast. Something to look forward too. Since I’m about 97.5% sure the Bulls front office will fluck up the free agent signing period.
Hmm
I couldnt
help but think "what if we still had BG instead of that kid from Iowa"
Maybe 100 less comments?
Watching LeBron is like watching a tornado destroy a small town……just freakin awesome!!by Juannieboy on Apr 25, 2010 6:37 PM CDT
BG is a lifetime 43.5% shooter who plays suspect defense.
I’m not sure if having BG instead of Kurt would have made a big difference.
Ya, who cares if they actually make the shot.
Gotta love those educated fans.
Yeah, if only this blog was populated by geniuses who took FG% at face value.
"Boozer's dumb ass jumped. So I dunked on his ass."-Joakim Noah
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 26, 2010 10:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Gotta love those geniuses here who only focus on offense and spout off PER like it.
its some sort of meaningful metric.
by MrBungle on Apr 27, 2010 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ah, yes the only meaningful metric is wins, right?
Let’s all go home folks, we’re just wasting our time talking.
"Boozer's dumb ass jumped. So I dunked on his ass."-Joakim Noah
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 27, 2010 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah and who cares if about 1/3 of his shots were 3-pt attempts...
Putting his eFG% at .498. And who cares if he got to the line 5 times/game, putting his TS% at .552.
Brad Miller is god.
So how did BG do this year?
I’m curious how you guys can whine about Kirk’s contract while pining for BG who makes around 5/55 as a backup. And where were you Kirk haters after game 3? I’m sure if we had BG we would be up 3-0 right now.
4-0
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"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 27, 2010 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions
the Kirk haters didn't go anywhere after game 3. One good game
doesn’t make up for a season of suck
by Basketball Smurf on Apr 27, 2010 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
If being average compared to other shooting guards constitutes a season of suck to you then
by all means continue hating Kirk for no reason.
he isn't average
he is one of the worst shooting guards in the league.
Here are some facts -
Of the 62 guards who played more than 25 minutes per game, and at least 60 games this season, Kirk ranks 58th in TS%, 55 in FG%, 46th in efg% and 54th in PER. That isn’t average, its bad. Like Kirk all you want, but you don’t get to make up your own facts
by Basketball Smurf on Apr 27, 2010 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions
You are correct, Kirk is not a good shooter. However, there is more
to basketball than just shooting%.
He can defend, but the Bulls
didn’t pay him $9 mill to be a defensive player, glue guy, or move the ball side-to-side on offense, he did suck this season, he has regressed as a player and should’ve been traded, the Bulls will not win a championship with him as a starter.
by QUINTEN DALEY on Apr 27, 2010 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions
I wouldn't say Kirk has sucked this season.
True, he wasn’t worth his contract but many NBA players are overpaid. I only use suck to describe players like Pargo. I guess each person has his own definition of suck.
I also agree that the Bulls won’t win a championship with him as a starter but what started all this was someone suggesting the having BG instead of Kirk would have been the difference against the Cavs.
BG wouldn't make a
huge difference, people forget that BG had dissapeared in plenty of Bulls games during his career.
by QUINTEN DALEY on Apr 27, 2010 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Good point - you sir, are a master of debate
If you are going to argue that Kirk is good don’t you have to, you know, have some arguments besides just your opinion. The fact is you can’t cite one thing that makes Kirk an average shooting guard.
He is not a good shooter, he doesn’t get a lot of assists, his D is overrated (struggles against quick point guard or big guards), he doesn’t finish inside, but at least he is the 34th rank guard rebounder in the league! That has to account for something.
by Basketball Smurf on Apr 27, 2010 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
He is also
2nd in the league in fiestiness, 1st in the league in glue and thrust, 3rd in the league in intangibles.
by QUINTEN DALEY on Apr 27, 2010 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think I stated that Kirk is average.
If you wish to evaluate all players solely based upon shooting% that’s up to you. You say his defense is overrated which is a subjective opinion. You then state “he doesn’t get a lot of assists” which is false for a shooting guard. I also notice how you failed to bring up his 3 to 1 assist to turnover ratio.
If you are interested in seeing another opinion regarding the BG vs Kirk meme, check out this link.
http://gapersblock.com/tailgate/2010/04/tailgate-talks-david-berri-of-wages-of-wins.php
i haven't mentioned BG once
You said he was average in comparison to other shooting guards – which he isn’t. Your entire opinion of Kirk is based on the eye test, which you chastised Ozzie for using.
I brought up his assists to talk about his production. You implied that even though he was a bad shooter, he is helping the team in other ways. I think shooting is one of the more important jobs for a shooting guard, but even so, he still doesn’t produce heavily in other areas. Kirk’s one value on the offensive end is that he doesn’t turn the ball over. So point for you… But since he isn’t actually trying to make any plays on the offensive end, its understandable.
That you dismiss every objective measure that reflects poorly on Hinrich (TS%, FG%, PER) and than try to use WoW is laughable.
by Basketball Smurf on Apr 27, 2010 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions
especially since that article basically says BG is over
50% better than kirk. (6.1 WP vs. 3.8 WP).
there is something awesome about Pargo, though.
Seriously. It’s kind of awe inspiring: he WILL shoot. He has no conscience. No remorse. He will shoot – the situation, the opponent, the country. He could be in zero gravity floating in orbit. The dude would be jacking up shots. And missing.
-MPG
Where am I using the eye test?
You said you wanted to see a measurement showing that Kirk was average so I gave you one. Whether you choose to believe this metric is up to you. As for relying on WoW being laughable maybe you can show me your regression analysis detailing the stats you feel are the most important in player evaluation along with your methodology.
you kept calling Hinrich average without producing
any of the objective material you were requiring from everyone else. So to me, that qualifies as YOU using the eye test.
And btw, he is still just 41st out of 62 in win share. So he still doesn’t meet the tag of average – by your own metric the guy is below average. By every other metric, he is worse than that.
by Basketball Smurf on Apr 27, 2010 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions
So you admit to jumping to a conclusion
I would hardly call that excellence in debating. As for being 42 out of 62, that falls into my distribution of being average.
Perfect component for a Bulls fan.
Where the 34th percentile is average!!!
LOL
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
and below average
based on real back of the basketball card stats as well, I love PPG, FG%, FT%, 3PT%, RPG, APG, those are real stats, not these sissy weighted formulas, leave that to the MIT geeks. FG% is a real man stat and not ORB%, not these fantsy pants stats.
by QUINTEN DALEY on Apr 27, 2010 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions
SHUT DOWN THE CARTER on being an idiot
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Look, I dont' know why I'm arguing with you
every one, even his most ardent supporters, acknowledge that Kirk has been awful for most of the year. If you see something different, have at it.
by Basketball Smurf on Apr 27, 2010 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Because Gordon is no longer on the team as a result of team confidence in Kirk Hinrich to make shots.
He proved over an entire season he’s incapable of being a shooting guard. He’s 30 years old and has lost almost all ability to penetrate and attack the basket, and his defense, while solid, is hardly at a level where you could consider paying a premium for the price.
Relative to other guards, Kirk didn’t do his job. I suppose Salmons deserves a share of the blame since he was equally terrible in his time here.
"Boozer's dumb ass jumped. So I dunked on his ass."-Joakim Noah
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 27, 2010 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions
price=defensive effort.
"Boozer's dumb ass jumped. So I dunked on his ass."-Joakim Noah
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 27, 2010 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions
sucking for sucking
should have kept the cheaper option
by JustAnotherFan on Apr 27, 2010 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Let's see
-Kurt sucks
-Management sucks
-VDN sucks
If you had wrote that Neil Funk sucks, you would have regurgitated every BaB cliche into one post.
you know
was just looking at the series stats and kirk is 7-12 from 3 for the series.
for once i ask: WHY THE FUCK ISNT KIRK HINRICH ACTUALLY SHOOTING???
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
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