Bulls 108, Cavs 106: Not to say 'it's a series', but it's not going to be a sweep.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 22, 2010 11:43 PM CDT
Email
Print| Pace | Eff | eFG | FT/FG | OREB% | TOr | |
| Cleveland | 93.0 | 114.0 | 52.4% | 24.4 | 28.6 | 14.0 |
| Chicago | 116.1 | 53.0% | 22.6 | 19.4 | 8.6 |
Certainly wasn't the blowout I feared.
Thursday night the Bulls nearly matched their offensive efficiency from Game 2, something I didn't think they'd be able to the rest of the series, let alone the very next game. Another game with extremely low turnovers (8 total, 0 for Derrick Rose in over 42 minutes), and while they didn't control the boards nearly as well as in game two (Noah with 15, the next highest was 6 by Flip Murray), they certainly shot better.
Rose was slightly more efficient tonight with 31 on 26 shots, Luol Deng put up 20 and was agressively attacking the rim, including this move, perhaps the least-athletic athletic play I've ever seen. And Kirk Hinrich was fantastic (inspired by BaB?). 27 points on 9-12 shooting for him, and it seemed like any second half run the Cavs made was staved off at least in part by another Hinrich jumper. He went 4-4 from the line, and shot his first FTs of the series in the second half, finishing with 8 attempts.
Sure, missing the last two made the game closer than it should've been, as did a bunch of other lucky factors in the final minute. And if Anthony Parker makes that final half-court heave such a spectacular collapse would've been sadly representative of this team's season. But it didn't, so I'm choosing not to make it a big deal. The missed FTs and made 3s by the Cavs that late were flukey, and it wasn't flukey enough for them to get this win.
I choose instead to highlight the great stint before that, when Derrick Rose made 4 out of the 5 baskets for the Bulls, the kind of star-on-team performance I was hoping for in a close game in this series. LeBron was making insane plays in his own right, but Rose's team had the cushion and James turned over the ball on two straight fourth-quarter possessions, a charge drawn by Deng (which was a borderline call, but we were due) and then a strip by Noah. Luol and the Bulls had another good night forcing LeBron outside, and even though there were times they were switching at strange points getting Noah or Taj out on James, he still mostly stayed out there.
And though James made shots, and his team shot 40% from 3, so the real issue for Cleveland wasn't King James or his court, it was that they couldn't stop the Bulls from scoring. The Bulls, of all teams! It was especially rough for the Cavs in the frontcourt, and it was highlighted in one sequence: old-ass Shaq blowing a dunk, and Noah beating him down the court on the other end for a layup. Varejao battled foul trouble all night, and the Cavs actually had their best success when they went without any bigs (Jamison and James as the frontcourt) and forced the Bulls with Noah on the bench (foul trouble of his own) to go without him or Brad Miller. The Cavs were able to scrape back into the game by owning the offensive glass and exploiting mismatches (the Cavs 'small' is better than the Bulls 'small'), but then Noah returned, and Rose took over. Both instances of a fine (if only in a get-out-of-the-way) coaching job by Vinny Del Negro. With no game until Sunday, he essentially went 7 deep (James Johnson got 5 and half minutes), and Rose had the ball in his hands to end the quarters and end the game.
Again, I was expecting bad things tonight (maybe it's just scarred memories of attending Game 3 of the Celtics series last season. And I'm envious of the fans there tonight, seemed like a hot crowd, though the 'see red' was a bit of a failure) and while a Cavs blowout has to be looming somewhere it hasn't happened yet. And the Rose and Noah Bulls are doing the best they can to make a free agent pitch independent of whatever disarray the front office is in. Mission: Look good, and look good on national TV. No matter how this series finishes, it's already proven to be productive in that respect.
294 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Impressive Play
I don’t think James saw it coming. Shows that even the best can be tricked…
But James will probably learn from it.
Come on, give the man a break
The play was awesome!
Plus if LBJ had done the very same thing he would get the whistle for a ‘and one’
by JustAnotherFan on Apr 23, 2010 8:02 AM CDT up reply actions
It's like a ten-year-old girl crossing you up in a pick-up game
Your mind would be so blown that you wouldn’t even know how to react.
by drew gooden's facial growth on Apr 23, 2010 12:42 AM CDT up reply actions
"even the best"
LeBron is a VASTLY overrated man defender. He gets those highlight blocks and plays passing lanes, but he’s not really that good on defense – despite the ESPN “DPOY” crap you see all the time.
by kozzer on Apr 23, 2010 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I always thought
That LBJ and Kobe’s D was overrated. Especially LBJ other than his chase down blocks his D is nothing special
both are very quick and very focused when they need to
I think they are pretty good defender (although you could argue those Kobe appointments for all-defense team). I also think that Kobe get away with too many fouls but still give him credit
by JustAnotherFan on Apr 23, 2010 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions
of course you did.
there is something awesome about Pargo, though.
Seriously. It’s kind of awe inspiring: he WILL shoot. He has no conscience. No remorse. He will shoot – the situation, the opponent, the country. He could be in zero gravity floating in orbit. The dude would be jacking up shots. And missing.
-MPG
Exactly
If people are going to complain about Tyrus defense because he made the spectacular block but not great defensively, then the same should said for Lebron every now and then. Rose owned him last night.
agreed!
I miss Jamal Crawford...he's a 2, not a 1. Always has been.
I think we're protecting too much of the paint
Almost half of the Cavs attempts were from downtown. As Marvelous pointed out, the Cavs are #2 in the NBA in three point makes.
If James makes free throw we lose this game. We have to find ways to make Moon, Williams, Parker, and West put the ball on the floor. If they’re going to throw up threes I want James taking them.
12/31/08: Fire Vinny Del Negro.(upd: 1/7/10)
Protecting the paint is how you make James shoot threes. Your points are contradictory. The others get their
Kirk Hinrich sucks. The end.
by fundamentallysound on Apr 22, 2010 11:54 PM CDT up reply actions
get their points off LeBron getting into the point.
(hit enter too soon on the previous one).
Kirk Hinrich sucks. The end.
by fundamentallysound on Apr 22, 2010 11:54 PM CDT up reply actions
paint*
Kirk Hinrich sucks. The end.
by fundamentallysound on Apr 22, 2010 11:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Here's the thing about taking a lot of 3s, though.
Yes, the 3-pointer is one of the most effective shots in basketball, but it’s also got the highest variance. The Cavs are a lot better than us, so the best chance we have at winning is to let them shoot jumpers (contested when possible though) and hope they run cold.
Brad Miller is god.
by Poloplaya14 on Apr 23, 2010 12:02 AM CDT up reply actions 7 recs
True story
Well said. Variance on threes is extremely high. One cold night could mean an easy win. As an average across the league, at rim shots would net 122 pts per 100 posessions and threes would net 106.4 pts per100 possessions. We want them taking all shots not at the rim and the Bulls did a decent job of that.
That said
Mo Williams has been hitting some amazing shots!
That with 6 seconds to end, fading, from faraway… wow
I hate him
by JustAnotherFan on Apr 23, 2010 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, they've been hitting ridiculous threes all series
if we keep this strategy up and they finally return to earth, we’ll win game 4 too.
I got the skills to pay the bills and that's about it
by Rose Colored Goggles on Apr 23, 2010 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions
They've been missing
wide open threes too. Or I should say Parker has.
Bosh or Bust
by JockstrapNoah on Apr 23, 2010 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions
he's still shooting like 50% for the series though...
at least I think he is.
I got the skills to pay the bills and that's about it
by Rose Colored Goggles on Apr 23, 2010 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions
What if "earth" is what they've been doing?
Season 3pt%: 38.1%
Against us: 38.4%
We’re giving them the 3pt shot, which I think is a mistake. Parker and Williams are getting too many easy looks, especially when they aren’t threats to penetrate.
The Bulls have basically conceded the 3 point shot to the Cavs. I think because they are closing down the paint
for LeBron. The problem is, the reason you want to close the paint for LeBron is it denies him easy looks but ALSO because when he gets into the paint the defense MUST collapse which leaves shooters open. But the Bulls are closing down the lane, but still leaving shooters open. They need to do a better job of rotating to shooters and running them off the 3 point line.
Kirk Hinrich sucks. The end.
by fundamentallysound on Apr 23, 2010 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions
You can't simultaneously close down the lane and guard the perimeter
The question is whether they’re sagging off the perimeter before Lebron begins to penetrate or waiting until he begins to penetrate to help/collapse in the lane. Either way….Lebron (to his credit) is excellent at firing passes to perimeter players, so they’re going to continue getting a ton of looks from three.
The reason they need to continue managing Lebron’s paint appearances is that it neutralizes the production of their front court players even if that comes at the risk of conceding more looks from three.
You’ll notice that when the Cavs went small in the 4th, Lebron started to get more pick ’n roll looks with Jamison getting buckets close to the goal. Those are the kind of things the Bulls have been preventing…..good looks at the basket from the front court players (not counting ORebs).
I think its still the right strategy b/c the 3 point shooters not only have to shoot well, they need to score enough to make up for the production they’re not getting from the front court players.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
by PeteRoc on Apr 23, 2010 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Why not?
Rose/Hinrich/Murray certainly haven’t stopped LeBron any by leaving their man, and we’ve given the Cavs a lot of open 3pt shots.
As for the production of their front court players, what frontcourt players? If Jamison wants to take 30 shots next game with his .530 TS%, let him. If Shaq scores a bit more than usual, that’s fine. The Cavs have been worse all year with Shaq on the court. Varejao doesn’t need an explanation.
I’m fine with Deng and our inside guys absolutely clogging the lane, and if LeBron or Jamario Moon beat us with their 3pt shooting, oh well. But I can’t see the logic in giving them open 3s, especially with the way they’ve rebounded. High efficiency shot + increased chance of offensive rebound if missed + low chance of turnover, ugh. I can understand if our coaches think we’re so overmatched that it’s smart to rely on the crazy variance of the 3 pointer, but I don’t think it’s that dire a situation.
by YaoPau on Apr 23, 2010 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Clogging the lanes requires participation from all 5 players on defense
If Derrick and Kirk stay attached to Mo, Parker, and/or Moon on the 3pt line, they won’t be able to help any of the front court players (Taj/Jo) who may leave their own man to help contain LBJ. When a coach gives his defensive instructions, he can’t assume that Lu/Jo/Taj will contain LBJ/Jamison/Andy without help from the perimeter players.
Similarly, if Derrick or Kirk is closest to Lebron when he’s in an ISO (instead of pick ‘n roll), they’re helping to discourage LBJ from making a B-line drive by sagging in his direction.
That’s why I said you can’t simultaneously clog the lane and defend the 3pt line. As good as Lu has been on LBJ, when the Cavs finally went small in the 4th, Jamison started to get layup opportunities. He got 4 layup attempts, converting 2 and knocking down both free throws on the other 2. That’s the kind of thing the Bulls have generally been able to avoid (be it from Jamison or Andy). It happened b/c the Cavs now had 3 guys on the perimeter with LBJ/Jamison running the pick ’n roll. Where as Taj/Jo would ordinarily be defending a front court player stationed closer to the paint, they were now assigned to someone on the 3pt line and were too far to help defend the paint.
That scenario is what would happen if the guards stayed attached to the guys on the 3pt line…..it would be easier for a Cav player to get layup opportunities as a result of the Bulls strategy defending LBJ.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
by PeteRoc on Apr 23, 2010 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
This is also the reason you might see Derrick on Mo more often
Kirk is better at playing help defense, so when the Cavs go to LBJ mode, its better to have Kirk play Parker, so he can help Taj/Jo. He’s much better equipped to do so and still potentially recover to his man on the perimeter.
Again, you can’t play help defense without the perimeter defenders involved.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
by PeteRoc on Apr 23, 2010 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Good posts. So your idea is to guard Mo with Derrick, and have
Kirk rotate between Parker and help defense. I think that’s pretty smart.
Absolutely smart.
I think Derrick can help off of Mo though as well. Derrick recovers pretty quickly, and he’s been closing quickly in this series. In the past though he gets stuck between doubling and covering, which has made him look like a poor defender.
Bosh or Bust
by JockstrapNoah on Apr 23, 2010 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions
that includes
a 6-23 performance in game 1.
they are 24-55 (including a 50% 3P shooting performance in game 2) in games 2 and 3 which is why it’s seemed like they’ve been hitting a lot.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
The main flaw is that we haven't been able to rebound
except for Noah but he can’t be on both sides
by JustAnotherFan on Apr 23, 2010 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions
not to pile on
but I think the Bulls forcing the Cavs to shoot 3s make them one dimensional. The Bulls have totally taken the Cavs inside scoring away. No post ups for Shaq or Jamison, Lebron is settling for jumpers, and the Bulls are getting the rebounds and running. We have to do a better job of closing out on shooters, but the Cavs have been making some crazy 3s and they have a lot of shooters.
by Basketball Smurf on Apr 23, 2010 12:36 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Shaq is awful
he really is the bulls key to victory. He was making his post moves and missing his 3 footers. Not to mention getting called for offensive fouls. I’m ecstatic that the Cavs’ pecking order puts JJ Hickson on the bench.
Bosh or Bust
by JockstrapNoah on Apr 23, 2010 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Just an amazing atmosphere. So happy I spent that money I don't have.
You have to hand it to Bulls/curious Chicagoans. They may spend 41 games gazing at their cellphones and the Luvabulls, but they go all in for the playoffs. The legit shock in the arena after Lu’s play was too much.
"Boozer's dumb ass jumped. So I dunked on his ass."-Joakim Noah
well said
it was well worth the money spent for this game. however there are still times when the crowd was a bit lack luster. I did get the privelage of Gar Forman sitting next to me for a few minutes. That was interesting, luckily i kept my mouth shut, haha.
One nitpick
I thought the strip on LeBron late in the 4th was by Noah and the ball bounced to Deng. Just giving him his due.
I also think the reason the “See Red” gimmick didn’t work is because legitimate established fanbases can recognize cheesy gimmicks when they see them. Heat fans and their “White Out” and Thunder fans with their blue shirts tonight don’t know any better.
I thought it was Noah too, actually
but the PBP said Deng. I’ll consider your testimony corroborating evidence though and change the post.
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 23, 2010 12:02 AM CDT up reply actions
noah made the play
with his fingernail deflection. but deng recovered the ball, so he gets statistical credit for the steal (having gained bulls’ possession)?
The name of the team is ARIZONA DIAMONDBACKS
You are correct
Noah knocked the ball from James’s hands with Deng defending nearby. It bounced around and away from all three. Deng recovered it.
The steal always goes to the guy who gets possession of the loose ball. Often it’s clear (when the guy who forces the loose ball also gets the possession). But in cases like the one last night, the guy who made the play happen didn’t get the stat.
Noah definitely caused the steal
I saw that replay! … Oh man … he’s so good. So good.
Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!
It worked pretty well last year. I think the early time just forced a lot of people to head over straight from work.
"Boozer's dumb ass jumped. So I dunked on his ass."-Joakim Noah
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 23, 2010 12:03 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm giving
the OKC fans the benefit of the doubt, since it was the first game in that building, but the Miami fans really should know better.
"I want people to fear me"- Derrick Rose.
"That boy is BAD"- Stacey King.
I thought the reason See Red didn't work
was because Chicago is too style-conscious to all wear the same shirt. Oklahoma City, on the other hand, the don’t give a shit what they look like.
"I'm going to enjoy an apple in bed." - Derrick Rose
Aww, my hand is gone
can’t say I didn’t see that one coming. I know this is an unthinkable thing to say, but Vinny has really impressed me lately. And Kenny Smith and C Webb just said on Inside the NBA that D Rose was their favorite player
If you're reading this signature, there's a good chance you don't like Vinny Del Negro.
sorry, pic was too big
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 23, 2010 12:03 AM CDT up reply actions
Yea it was really big, my bad
If you're reading this signature, there's a good chance you don't like Vinny Del Negro.
by Juiceboxjerry on Apr 23, 2010 12:09 AM CDT up reply actions
I agree on Vinny.
We’ve all been real hard on him, but I think he’s been solid in the playoffs, though I think he needs to tell Taj to stop challenging Lebron.
I also liked hearing CWebb, Chuck and Kenny fawn over Derrick. Seeing him score on LeBron might be the high point of the season.
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.
And Noah is Barkleys favorite
you would think they would talk about us alittle more then they do.
DA CUBS DA BEARS DA BULLS
Too bad Barkley would rather lose weight than talk about the Bulls.
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.
He seems to love talking about Noah and Rose, who are incidentally the only Bulls who matter.
Kirk Hinrich sucks. The end.
by fundamentallysound on Apr 23, 2010 12:23 AM CDT up reply actions
I like Deng.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
I like him lately. He's made it so I'm not ashamed to wear my Deng jersey around anymore.
Kirk Hinrich sucks. The end.
by fundamentallysound on Apr 23, 2010 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm with the Vinny comment
Don’t get me wrong, the guy’s a jackass. But goddammit, I’d rather stick with him than go with Byron Scott. At least the players continue to respond to him. If he’s good enough for D-Rose, he’s good enough for me, and F**k Pax! Who will you replace him with, Dough f**king Collins??? Players play, and they can overshadow the limitations of our brainless coach. Case in point: Mike f**king Brown.
by ToroToroToro on Apr 23, 2010 12:12 AM CDT up reply actions
Why is he a jackass?
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.
Still think he doesn't know how to use timeout
He could have a avoided some troubles on the end, like having that ball stripped by murray
by JustAnotherFan on Apr 23, 2010 8:06 AM CDT up reply actions
He could have avoided some of the troubles down the end
like the ball stripped from murray ‘cause the team couldn’t get positioned
by JustAnotherFan on Apr 23, 2010 8:06 AM CDT up reply actions
Also, if anyone hasn't seen the postgame video SoulEater put up, please watch it.
Joakim Noah walking down the tunnel with his arm draped around “Chuck Attack”, giving bro hugs to Bill Wennington and BJ Armstrong.
"Boozer's dumb ass jumped. So I dunked on his ass."-Joakim Noah
Lol, that was HI-larious, he's like the Fonz at the United Center (complete with Ron Howard!)
If you're reading this signature, there's a good chance you don't like Vinny Del Negro.
by Juiceboxjerry on Apr 23, 2010 12:07 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I didn't like Vinny's idea to foul at the end but hey, it worked
As for the game, it woulda been harder on me than any loss this year.
I’m very glad they won’t get swept. These dudes are playing their heart out and you gotta think it means something to the free agents that may wanna come to Chicago.
So now Noah and Rose are TNT’s favorite players?
Maybe the love is spreading worldwide finally.
If the Bulls don’t make the playoffs I won’t need to watch basketball, its on to basketball.
by QUINTEN DALEY on Apr 2, 2010 12:38 PM PDT
I liked Deng's foul on Varejo
But did he miss that last FT on purpose? If so, huge mistake.
by Badmotostinkfinger on Apr 23, 2010 12:28 AM CDT up reply actions
I was indifferent I think the whole fouling while up 3 is an easy decision when its like 3-5 seconds left. We had 10 seconds though with the other team having a time out or two.
I was just shocked Vinny thought of it.
I had no idea what the hell was going on. I thought it was a foul on Noah or something. but with the way the Cavs where shooting late in the game I thought it was pretty smart.
Luol Deng 24 going on 54.
especially since the cavs have such an enormous disparity between their skills as 3pt shooters
and their skills as free throw shooters. i thought it made sense to foul in this case.
there is something awesome about Pargo, though.
Seriously. It’s kind of awe inspiring: he WILL shoot. He has no conscience. No remorse. He will shoot – the situation, the opponent, the country. He could be in zero gravity floating in orbit. The dude would be jacking up shots. And missing.
-MPG
They have one skill that is totally variable but good.
and another that is consistent and sucks (the FTs), thats not going to be good for them after this series.
Bosh or Bust
by JockstrapNoah on Apr 23, 2010 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions
i thought it worked because of the person they fouled
at that point though it was pick your poison. The Bulls ft shooting or the Cavs 3 pt shooting. VDN trusted his guys to make a few.
by Basketball Smurf on Apr 23, 2010 12:38 AM CDT up reply actions
In Vinny's postgame comments he was adamant they were to foul regardless of who caught the ball.
This is a debate for another time, but I actually agree with this strategy. Make it a FT game.
"Boozer's dumb ass jumped. So I dunked on his ass."-Joakim Noah
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 23, 2010 12:43 AM CDT up reply actions
the only problem I have with that is if you foul Lebron
and he acts like he was going to shoot… what do the refs do? I don’t trust the refs unless the foul inside the 3pt line
by Basketball Smurf on Apr 23, 2010 12:44 AM CDT up reply actions
But they gave the ball to AV.
Big mistake by the Cavs. He might have warned the bulls about LeBron making a savvy move.
Bosh or Bust
by JockstrapNoah on Apr 23, 2010 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions
The Cavs were fractions of a second from getting Mo Williams an open 3 in the corner
If you happen to see the play again, it was very well designed in terms of having LBJ and Mo kriss kross. It confused the Bulls enough to get Mo free in the corner.
A split second longer and we would have been screwed.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
I liked it too
though my worry was the Bulls FT shooting.
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 23, 2010 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions
And it's not the first time
they miss FT on clutch moments. They should really work a little more on it.
by JustAnotherFan on Apr 23, 2010 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions
That was my main worry
I just couldn’t bring myself to trust in them
If the Bulls don’t make the playoffs I won’t need to watch basketball, its on to basketball.
by QUINTEN DALEY on Apr 2, 2010 12:38 PM PDT
I liked it
Varejao at the line for FT attempts is where you want the game to be decided, heh.
Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!
I thought that was a great idea
especially given the ridiculous three’s they were hitting.
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
Ric Bucher
@RicBucher 4.22.10: KD outduels Kobe, DRose does same w/LeBron. The Next Generation just handed out their business cards.
Luol Deng 24 going on 54.
by SoulEater7 on Apr 23, 2010 12:33 AM CDT reply actions 7 recs
Also Webber said tonight LeBron better get his in now and that he has about a 3 year window.
I thought that was great. Reggie and Marv lightly touched on LeBron signing with the Bulls and i felt a tingle.
Luol Deng 24 going on 54.
by SoulEater7 on Apr 23, 2010 12:42 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Webber was saying that as a joke because Kenny said Durant will be the best player in the NBA in 3 years.
"Boozer's dumb ass jumped. So I dunked on his ass."-Joakim Noah
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 23, 2010 12:43 AM CDT up reply actions
Then he followed it up with this:
@ricbucher, Michael Beasley handed out his business card in the Boston series. It says, “Not as bad as the Darko pick, but close.”
Which was fun to read also, even if it is a pretty ridiculous statement imo.
If you're reading this signature, there's a good chance you don't like Vinny Del Negro.
by Juiceboxjerry on Apr 23, 2010 12:55 AM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
yeah, not quite the same
it’s not like OJ Mayo and Kevin Love are Carmelo and Bosh
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 23, 2010 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions
Plus
before the draft, everyone was saying “it’s Rose and Beasley and then everyone else”. Not like the came-out-of-nowhere Darko pick.
Darko certainly did not come out of nowhere
I was a senior in high school that year, and a lot of journalists/website/“experts” were saying there was a chance Darko could be better than LeBron. Seriously. That was being talked about.
I got the skills to pay the bills and that's about it
by Rose Colored Goggles on Apr 23, 2010 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't remember hearing that
All I remember was about LeBron (clear #1), and then the holy trinity of Carmelo, Wade & Bosh. But it’s been a while since then, so I’ll take your word for it.
I remember it like Rose Colored Goggles
It was James as the consensus #1, Melo and Darko were the next two, Bosh clearly fourth and there was a lot of doubt about Wade being a combo guard who couldn’t shoot
It will be found an unjust and unwise jealousy to deprive a man of his natural liberty upon the supposition he may abuse it.
George Washington
by snley on Apr 23, 2010 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Agreed
Vinny: "[Thrust] means pace, it means getting the ball out, it means getting your back to the sidelines, it means extending your outlets, it means getting the ball up the court into our early offense with plenty of time."
right
wade was projected to fall to the bulls at #7 but riley decided to take wade at the last second instead of chris kaman.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
its because toronto
picked Bosh. Riley wanted Bosh at first.
by aznlildelfin on Apr 24, 2010 11:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Wade had a very low profile, it was basically assumed he would be a Bull.
I don’t recall much hype about Bosh, but Darko had just as much cred going into the draft as Carmelo.
"Boozer's dumb ass jumped. So I dunked on his ass."-Joakim Noah
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 23, 2010 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Funny.... James is closer to Durant and Rose in age than to Kobe.
heh
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
I always said college was overrated.
"Boozer's dumb ass jumped. So I dunked on his ass."-Joakim Noah
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 23, 2010 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
This is completely hypothetical
but what if Lebron did sign here (I still don’t think he will), what would we do with Luol? This is the first time I’ve ever even considered it a slight possibility and it just got me to thinking about the roster. Lebron at the two? Lu at the four? Lu off the bench playing three and four? Just curious what people think if that dream scenario ever did occur.
If you're reading this signature, there's a good chance you don't like Vinny Del Negro.
Well I would start Lu at the 4 like you said.
Rose
Kirk
James
Lu
Noah
Try to sign Ray Allen.
Luol Deng 24 going on 54.
Yea, that would probably be my preference as well
Lu and Lebron would be able to handle the glass with Noah, even though we’d be pretty small.
If you're reading this signature, there's a good chance you don't like Vinny Del Negro.
by Juiceboxjerry on Apr 23, 2010 12:58 AM CDT up reply actions
Well with the way LeBron plays you can get away with it.
Besides you could just platoon Taj depending on the match ups. Deng is a good rebounder anyways.
Luol Deng 24 going on 54.
Wait a god damn minute
Did SoulEater just say something positive about Luol Deng?
Brad Miller is god.
by Poloplaya14 on Apr 23, 2010 1:11 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Trade him for Al Jefferson.
If we did end up keeping him, I’d put Lebron at the 4, although I guess he and Deng would be fairly interchangeable between the 3 and the 4.
Brad Miller is god.
LeBron to the 4. He's a freak. He can handle it.
Kirk Hinrich sucks. The end.
by fundamentallysound on Apr 23, 2010 1:19 AM CDT up reply actions
It seems I'm the only one
But I’d go with LeBron at the two.
I don’t want either him or Luol banging up against the Boozers and such all season long and risking injury, IMO its better to start Taj and play a lot of small ball after that with Kirk at the 2.
Fair point
But if we’re gonna have Rose and LeBron on our team, I want as many outside shooters on the floor as possible, so I’d go small.
Brad Miller is god.
gerald wallace practically begged the cats to stop playing him big minutes at the 4 because it was
killing his body. i feel confident that if lu were to play the 4 for a season…. well it wouldnt matter because his body would just dismember itself for its own sake. lebron at the 4 makes more sense to me.
there is something awesome about Pargo, though.
Seriously. It’s kind of awe inspiring: he WILL shoot. He has no conscience. No remorse. He will shoot – the situation, the opponent, the country. He could be in zero gravity floating in orbit. The dude would be jacking up shots. And missing.
-MPG
by TheMoon on Apr 23, 2010 3:02 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Truth is...
doesn’t matter we would win it all. Deng on 4, Deng traded, LBJ on 4… we would win the championship
by JustAnotherFan on Apr 23, 2010 8:12 AM CDT up reply actions
Are you serious?
What would we do with Lebron? Whatever the hell he wants. You can put him anywhere. You build around the best player.. not the other way around.
The roster can be completely overhauled if you get LeBron.
Rose, LeBron, Luol, PF, Noah is the line up if they don’t make any trades. But it doesn’t really matter. It’s Rose, Noah, LeBron and any two mediocre players and you could still win a championship without much trouble.
"A common mistake made by baseball fans is to call a pitcher unhittable when that pitcher is not Matt Thornton." - Hardball Times
by Grinder in Training on Apr 23, 2010 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions
Just put James at the power forward spot.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
And then make sure you get the best 3-pt shooter possible for SG.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Agreed.
Or trade Luol for a SG
I got the skills to pay the bills and that's about it
by Rose Colored Goggles on Apr 23, 2010 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions
Surprised no one else said this, but James has the athleticism to handle defending 2s
Hell, let him act like MJ on D, just put him on the other team’s designated spot up shooter and let him roam the floor hoping his length, instincts, and quickness can get him back to his man to put a hand in his face if needed. Leave the harder to guard wing to Deng. That line up would be incredible on D and the glass. Spacing could be a problem on offense, but that team could get plenty of points in transition.
Rose
LBJ
Deng
Taj
Noah
It will be found an unjust and unwise jealousy to deprive a man of his natural liberty upon the supposition he may abuse it.
George Washington
by snley on Apr 23, 2010 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Easy
Sub Lebron in at the end of each quarter when there’s 4:00 left. Who needs the best player playing when you can have subpar performances from less valuable players? It’s the Chicago way!
After watching almost the entire 2nd half in slow motion to prevent cardiac arrest, I vote this game as my most enjoyable win since the Jordanaires were disbanded
In the midst of almost blowing a 21 point lead I fully expected a mind crushing defeat was in the making when the Cavs got it down to 2 with over 4 minutes left, but the Bulls held on through sheer grit and determination to defeat the amazing LeBron and his entourage.
My hat goes off to almost everyone on the court but especially Rose, who in front of a nationwide audience once again established himself as a budding superstar and big time assassin in the 4th quarter especially down the stretch by hitting 2 straight shots over LBJ with the game on the line. His stat line of 31 points and 7 assists were impressive but even more so he did this with zero turnovers.
Noah, playing with 5 fouls caused 2 steals as the clock ran down. He also had 10 points, 15 boards, 5 assists and 3 blocks but his most impressive move was getting a choke hold on LBJ to prevent him from grabbing Varejao’s FT miss with 8 seconds left.
Luol had another strong game with 20 points again and much to my shock got credited with drawing a charge on LBJ, nullifying his basket and one. My replay showed the Bulls actually got the best of an iffy call which I never thought possible when LeBron is involved. He followed that up with a steal off the great one which I thought sealed the victory with the Bulls up 8 with only 30 seconds to go.
Kurt earned the title of Captain Kirk tonight with one of his finest games in his erratic career. He was on fire from the 3, hitting 4 of 4 and continually put daggers into the Cavs every time they made a run. He played great D, scored 27 points on 12 shots while adding 5 boards and 5 assists. Except for his 2 missed free throws at the end, I would have graded him a solid A+.
Even Vinny was not horrible, although I was upset with his moving Flip to the 3 and it almost cost them the win when the Cavs were able to dominate the boards for the first time in trimming the lead.
Brad showed what veteran experience can bring in the playoffs, especially when he was rested, unlike last year where Vinny played him till he dropped. I want to give my final thanks to Shaq who played like he was in an old timer’s game, except he was the only senior citizen on the court trying to keep up with a herd of young stallions. I wish we could somehow keep Brad for the veteran’s minimum next season.
I hope all the potential free agent studs were watching tonight. After seeing the Bulls youthful core play at a frenzied pace with few mistakes, I would think Chicago could be a nice place to compete next year. I hope Cleveland fails and LeBron decides to go from Lake Erie to Lake Michigan. If not him, I’d settle for D Wade or maybe Bosh. This mix of a healthy Deng, future Hall of Famer, Rose, next year’s all star center Noah and supporting cast of Taj (coming off the bench), maybe Kirk (off the bench) and another aging former all star who wants a last shot at the title could make the Bulls a formidable contender in 2010.
This series has cemented in my mind that the United Center will be buzzing with free agent inquiries if management doesn’t screw it up by keeping Vinny and tightening the purse strings. The White Sox total collapse may have Reinsdork thinking twice where to concentrate his sports dollars next season with visions of a rebirth of the Jordan years dancing in his aging head before senility takes over. One can only dream.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Apr 23, 2010 1:47 AM CDT reply actions 8 recs
where have you been, mister?....
very nice recap.
there is something awesome about Pargo, though.
Seriously. It’s kind of awe inspiring: he WILL shoot. He has no conscience. No remorse. He will shoot – the situation, the opponent, the country. He could be in zero gravity floating in orbit. The dude would be jacking up shots. And missing.
-MPG
I miss being more active lately
but a recent neck injury due to some disk and arthritis problems have forced me to wear a horse collar and cut down my activities. The good news is the oxy-pain pills give me temporary relief and somewhat of a buzz. The end result of tonight’s game was so satisfying I felt a need to comment on it regardless of my discomfort, especially since it may be our last victory of the season. Taping the games and constanly rewinding and slowing down the action has minimized my over-reacting to all the plays both good and bad by suddenly jerking and giving Italian salutes to the officials and Vinny, thus saving me from embarrasing cussing and howling.
I recommend Bulls fans try this at home if they have the equipment. It is much easier on your nerves and you can really see plays either devlop or disintegrate. When watching LeBron and Derrick go into high gear you almost have to see them perform in slow motion to really comprehend their awesomeness. This method prevents me from commenting on Bab and thus saving an ulcer during the games, but I still enjoy reading other’s rants after the heat has died down, although they’re more fun in real time.
I predict it is now theoretically possible the Bulls can win again Sunday at home as I beleive the Cavs no longer think they are invincible. If LeBron gets 39 points and they still lose, how cocky can they be? It is also becoming obvious that Shaq is overmatched against our energizer bunny, Joakim and his initial thrusts have been thwarted. Maybe this will be a repeat of last year where the Bulls take them to a game 7 and they once again establish themselves as a potential up an coming team. Now if I take enough of those painkillers, maybe I can even start fantasizing a series win, but the amount I would need to reach that level of La La Land self-deception would likely kill me before I ever got there.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Apr 23, 2010 4:14 AM CDT up reply actions
I agree Tmc, that was a great bold play by Noah:
…but [Noah’s] most impressive move was getting a choke hold on LBJ to prevent him from grabbing Varejao’s FT miss with 8 seconds left.
by JustAnotherFan on Apr 23, 2010 8:14 AM CDT up reply actions
I was beggining to forgive Kirk for the wrong he represent (even if it's not his fault)
And he misses those 2 FT… ow man, you are impossible to love, Kurt!
by JustAnotherFan on Apr 23, 2010 8:16 AM CDT up reply actions
no way, the triple OT win against the Celtics was far better and it just happened last year
And when the Bulls won game 4 in Miami in ’06. Cause they, like, won a series.
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 23, 2010 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Game 6 will always be the standard
for an awesome entertaining gut-wrenching Bulls win.
Bosh or Bust
by JockstrapNoah on Apr 23, 2010 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Last year's Celtic series had many epic games but I still have to go with last night's breathtaker as my favorite.
Mainly because so many key Bulls players have moved to greener pastures since then while I can still look forward to hopefully seeing most of our current stars perform even better next season.
Ben Gordon, Tyrus Thomas, John Salmons, the great Lindsey Hunter (who VInny put at the 4 in game 7 to keep Tyrus on the bench in the 4th quarter….no wonder I want to forget that series), Tim Thomas, Linton Johnson and the White Panther, Aaron Gray are no longer part of the United Center stable. Most of my highlight memories from last year except for Rose, were of Fish, Ben and Tyrus hittting big shots. I want to revel in last night’s heros, at least until Sunday and who knows, this may just continue for awhile longer. Now I have to go watch the re-run in real time to see what the game actually looked like.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Apr 23, 2010 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Great post as usual!!
I agree, with all of your points. I have to wonder how Bosh is sitting at home watching this series and not thinking “Chicago is where I need to be” or even Wade thinking “It may be time for me to get the hell out of Miami and go home and win a ring or 2 before it’s too late”
I dunno. Different situations.
Wade might be thinking more about how it would be in Chicago, but he can at least wait to see what his team does to see if they improve enough. Bosh can make his mind up right now.
OTOH, why can’t Wade and Bosh be talking right now about “they’re” going to do next year?
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
that was one sweet sweet forty-eight minutes!
Luol and the Bulls had another good night forcing LeBron outside, and even though there were times they were switching at strange points getting Noah or Taj out on James, he still mostly stayed out there.
when james johnson was in for deng, noah kept switching the screen and roll. it didn’t usually work out, but was no worse than sticking jj to lebron either, most probably. jj can get more chances next year, and the remainder of this series, assuming noah can calm down or back off a bit…. ah, what am i saying? that’s just not happening with noah!
The name of the team is ARIZONA DIAMONDBACKS
more exclamation points?
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 23, 2010 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions
It's been a LONG TIME since the Bulls' best four players had a good game during the same game.
About time. Hope they keep it up.
by KentuckyBullsFan on Apr 23, 2010 7:14 AM CDT reply actions
Here is a fun fact.
I looked at Hinrich’s individual game performances. When Hinrich scored over 15 pts (read: was offensively productive), the Bulls won every game! I postulated that the same might be true for Taj Gibson. Nope. Taj had plenty of productive games, two 20 pt outings, where the Bulls lost. Kirk needs to keep doing this and the Bulls need to get a wing man in the off season.
That's easy
Shooting guards must be able to shoot. You can’t win games when you have a guy as your starting SG bringing 5 points – that’s why I never understood keeping him. To me he is and always will be a PG
by JustAnotherFan on Apr 23, 2010 8:18 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Best game of the year from the Bulls?
I mean, I don’t remember a better game this year… Another thing, Noah said that the Bull were going to try to shock the world. Well, I think they are already shocking. The question is: can they produce a miracle? Let us pray brothers…
p.s. I’m not a Hinrich fan, but damm, he played like freak
Jannero Pargo = Larry Hughes 2.0
by bull83 on Apr 23, 2010 7:29 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
How cool was it to see Lebron trying to guard Rose towards the end?
"You never got me down, Ray. Ya hear me? Never got me down."
-Jake Lamotta
by The Red Menace on Apr 23, 2010 8:18 AM CDT up reply actions
Best game of the last three years?
At least from an importance perspective. I’m not going to say this justifies decisions made in that time, but the planets aligned yesterday. Knocked off the NBA title favorite. The NBA title favorite happens to have the league’s top free agent who will be looking for a team he can win with. Rose/Noah/Deng all played great. The Thunder knocked off the Lakers, allowing for a lot of Thunder/Bulls next-generation conversations, a crazy thought just a month ago. Would’ve been nice if the NFL Draft wasn’t yesterday to steal the top headlines, but I’ll take it.
Of course, if the Bulls get creamed the next two games, all this is moot. But somehow the stupid plan to barely squeeze into the playoffs, earn their additional $1 mil in revenue and somehow become perceived as an up-and-comer is working really well all of a sudden lol. I think I follow this team more because they’re crazy/funny/unpredictable more than anything else.
Game 6 of the Celtics series
Both in terms of drama and importance would trump this one I think.
Triple OT, the play that defined Noah’s status as a potential star, taking the Celtics to a deciding game 7 – it’s pretty tricky to beat.
But this game was fantastic, even if it means I’m now going to have a heart attack every time the Bulls have clutch free throws to decide the game from this point forward.
Screw it, let’s just make sure we’re up by at least 10 with a minute to go on Sunday…
best game of year.... 1 of the 5 during the West Roadtrip winning streak.
This was great cause its recent, a playoff game, and over a great team. I thought the Bulls would win 1 at home so I wasn’t shocked yesterday. I was genuinely shocked they beat Houston or OK City on that streak. Remember this was after horrid losses to start the trip to a 7 man Golden State and a bad Clippers team.
I think they ended up blowing out Houston and hung on against OK City who turned out to be a playoff team who can beat Lakers at home.
Therefore Best game of year …. win at Ok City
That Houston win
was more impressive, because Noah was an unexpected scratch, and Brad Miller crawled out of his grave to have a game-waving performance.
Vinny: "[Thrust] means pace, it means getting the ball out, it means getting your back to the sidelines, it means extending your outlets, it means getting the ball up the court into our early offense with plenty of time."
by runningman on Apr 23, 2010 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
You know Rose was welcomed as one of the big ones
the day LBJ decided no one else on his team could stop him. So he would do it himself.
Can someone let Taj know
That he is too slow to create his own shot off the dribble when LeBron James is on the court? It’s just ugly to watch.
Great game to be at other then that though.
Question for those who know more about stats than I do in regards to sitting guys with foul trouble. It seems to me.. that a point scored with 10 minutes left is worth the same as a point scored with 30 seconds left. What I’m getting at is, with Noah finishing the game with 5 fouls, that means he had more time on the court he could have used. Lets say we put him in with 8 minutes left instead of keeping him out until 4 minutes are left and the Cavs have gone on a monster run while he’s sitting out. Maybe he plays those 4 minutes, plus another 3 and fouls out with a minute left. But because Noah is now in the game, the Cavs weren’t able to go on such a run because we actually got some of those rebounds that went to the Cavs.
Those 4 minutes we gained over the minute we lost at the end w/ Noah now off the court because he fouled out would seem to be more valuable, no? It just seems stupid to not get the maximum amount of court time for your best players. I’m sure their is a statistical argument that explains why I’m wrong, but I’ve never seen it. It just seems often guys sit out w/ foul trouble early, then end with 4 or 5 fouls and never foul out, which means they could have played more. Why not ride that player for as long as you can until he fouls out?
"A common mistake made by baseball fans is to call a pitcher unhittable when that pitcher is not Matt Thornton." - Hardball Times
by Grinder in Training on Apr 23, 2010 8:53 AM CDT reply actions
He is too slow to go for a vertical dunk under the basket
as that block from James showed him
by JustAnotherFan on Apr 23, 2010 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions
Taj is playing like a deer in headlights
In fairness, the three interior starters of the Cavs are LeBron/Jamison/Shaq, and it’s the playoffs. Kind of intimidating for a #26 pick rookie in that crowd.
I’d love to see Taj either (1) dunk whenever he’s been laying it up, or (2) drive directly into contact. If he’s nervous, that’s fine and understandable. But you can’t play nervous AND passive. Play overagressive, be okay with looking like a fool, and maybe you’ll get a few nice plays in and surprise yourself. We need him to step up big.
See.. I didn't think it was passiveness that was the problem.
He tried repeatedly last night to create his own shot, that would not suggest passiveness. The thing is.. he can’t do that against a team that has LeBron James or anyone else extremely athletic. When he gets the ball in the post sometimes it’s just a black hole, it never comes back out. That’s just unacceptable.
In summary, I really want Chris Bosh to be a Bull.
"A common mistake made by baseball fans is to call a pitcher unhittable when that pitcher is not Matt Thornton." - Hardball Times
by Grinder in Training on Apr 23, 2010 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions
For all those who don't think Chris Bosh + Bulls = eventual contender
Imagine this series with Chris Bosh also on the Bulls. Holy hell.
I could be tripping but
Right now it looks Joe Johnson or David Lee would be enough! Which is why we should go for the best FA. And if we score Bosh, Wade or LeBron…. bring on the cigars
by JustAnotherFan on Apr 23, 2010 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions
And a M2GWCD&S.
Then it’s aaaalllll over.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
by tyger1147 on Apr 23, 2010 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree with you
I’ve actually been impressed that Taj hasn’t been intimidated. He’s taking shots when he’s open, certainly. Sure he is looking bad on some of his attempts to ‘create’, but our offense blows so that kind of thing happens.
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 23, 2010 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions
This is where I'd make a Taj being old joke, but the era of good feelings must persist.
Plus, Taj told Chuck Swirsky he trash talks.
"Boozer's dumb ass jumped. So I dunked on his ass."-Joakim Noah
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 23, 2010 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions
Do you have an opinion on the foul trouble issue I mentioned?
You seem like a pretty solid source.. or could at least point me in the right direction to see what others have said about the subject.
"A common mistake made by baseball fans is to call a pitcher unhittable when that pitcher is not Matt Thornton." - Hardball Times
by Grinder in Training on Apr 23, 2010 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions
I think maybe Noah came in a posession or two late
but it wasn’t so bad. It’s not like Noah is going to get a halo from the refs from fouling out as if he’s a superstar, it’s a huge risk that he fouls out.
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 23, 2010 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions
I think my main point is the idea of it in general
“saving” guys until late in the game, but then they still end the game with fouls left to burn. Meaning they didn’t get the maximum amount of court time possible.
"A common mistake made by baseball fans is to call a pitcher unhittable when that pitcher is not Matt Thornton." - Hardball Times
by Grinder in Training on Apr 23, 2010 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions
right, it's a risk to bring him in too early as well
I get your point that all the possessions count equally. But I could also see that since Cleveland didn’t have any bigs in either, it made sense to steal a few possessions with Noah on the bench.
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 23, 2010 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions
But my question is.. why is it a risk to bring him in too early?
Isn’t the optimal situation, getting the most minutes out of your best players possible? Yes, that guy might foul out.. but at least you got every minute you could have from him.
"A common mistake made by baseball fans is to call a pitcher unhittable when that pitcher is not Matt Thornton." - Hardball Times
by Grinder in Training on Apr 23, 2010 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah, I see your point
but the case can be made that the Bulls have less of a chance to ‘win’ a possession with Noah out late as they did at that earlier time.
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 23, 2010 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions
True
Like I said.. I assumed there’s a logical explanation. That’s probably good enough for most. Add to that, the fact that Vinny isn’t in a position to take coaching risks, or going against the grain playing a guy with 5 fouls early.
He has to play it pretty safe with any moves he makes, assuming he wants to get another job after this one.
"A common mistake made by baseball fans is to call a pitcher unhittable when that pitcher is not Matt Thornton." - Hardball Times
by Grinder in Training on Apr 23, 2010 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions
coaches over-do it, definitely
I think Mike Woodson always takes guys out early in the first half in games they never foul out of.
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 23, 2010 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions
And by good enough for most
I meant good enough to explain what the coach was doing in most situations.. not that your explanation was good enough for most people to accept (but not me). Realized that may have come off as me just brushing your explanation aside.
"A common mistake made by baseball fans is to call a pitcher unhittable when that pitcher is not Matt Thornton." - Hardball Times
by Grinder in Training on Apr 23, 2010 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions
There's an argument to be made
that the later you put guys in the less likely they are to foul out because refs are somewhat more forgiving in the last two minutes. You see far less ticky-tack stuff in the last few minutes than you might at say the 7 or 8 minute mark.
Yeah that was my only problem with last night
Taj got carried away a few times trying to take it himself and early in the shot clock too. When Rose, Hinrich and even Deng are playing like that, get the ball to those guys.
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
Exactly.. it's not like our other guys were struggling.
He had no reason to try to make things happen on his own.
"A common mistake made by baseball fans is to call a pitcher unhittable when that pitcher is not Matt Thornton." - Hardball Times
by Grinder in Training on Apr 23, 2010 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Can we put in Hakim Warrick?
If he starts shooting those idiotically ugly fadeaways, then pull him out.
Rotation
I really believe Vinny is doing a great job by shortening the rotation. The Bulls have played so much better since he did. No Pargo, Warrick, or anyone else who hasn’t played. Flip scores, Brad takes up space and gives you great FT shooting and an outside shot, JJ gives you another guy to throw at LBJ. Warrick is always overmatched physically at his position. Maybe if Brad gets in foul trouble, you use Warrick, but otherwise keep him on the pine.
by Tucson_AZ_Bulls_Fan on Apr 23, 2010 9:52 AM CDT reply actions
I agree
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
ah! almost forgot
After game 2: Joakim Noah said about Jamario Moon: "See if you can hit (those shots) in Chi(cago)."
Result: Moon had 3 points in 14 minutes of play
by JustAnotherFan on Apr 23, 2010 10:23 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
when noah and deng teamed up to guard lebron and strip him at the end,
was I the only one who had a flashback to ’98 finals game six when mj and rodman stripped malone?
by Uncle Stanley McGoober on Apr 23, 2010 10:29 AM CDT reply actions
ha! hadn't thought about that
But that Noah keeps recalling Rodman over and over. That neck grab on James after the FT miss was very Rodmanesque
by JustAnotherFan on Apr 23, 2010 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
The key to this series is Kirk
If Kirk can just act like a SG, we can win this series…Maybe. Even Rose said last night that Kirk is playing SG and needs to play like one. Kirk scored what, 8 pts in game 1 and 5 in game 2. If Hinrich put up at least 18 pts in Game 2 we are winning this series right now. I’m not saying Kirk has to put up 30, but be a threat at the position and shoot. Let Rose be the facilitator and just SHOOT. If Kirk can do that we will win game 4.
by Dils on Apr 23, 2010 10:39 AM CDT reply actions 4 recs
if Kirk was better we'd have a better team.
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 23, 2010 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Fun Hinrich fact
in the Bulls last 10 games, Hinrich has scored 23 or more points in four of them. Before that, he hadn’t had a 23+ point game all season!
Perhaps he’s hit his prime?
That would be good
I he could do it through all the series games would be great
by JustAnotherFan on Apr 23, 2010 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions
If he keeps it up the rest of this series
(not 27 pts, mind you, but being a scoring threat and being efficient with his shots)
then the Bulls can use “glue-guy” Kirk as sign-and-trade bait!
I agree
and ergo we are doomed
"Freeze it!... now roll it!" -Stacey King, greatest analyst ever.
by WalmartSecurity on Apr 24, 2010 11:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Proud to be a Bulls fan today
gonna ride this wave all the way to sunday
"The Bulls Are Back" - D. Stern (2010)
Im tired
Of the westbrook rose comparisons…
Durant is getting doubled.. that leaves westbrook with a favorable matchup all day..
Meanwhile Rose is either getting doubled, or defended by Lebron…
"Triple B's Bulls Bears... Blackhawks (i guess)"
by Faizamaze on Apr 23, 2010 11:14 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
Man, as a cavs fan you don’t get to see Rose play very much. I am amazed at his speed.
It would seem to me, that you feel threatened by the Eric Ghiaciuc acquisition.
by johnnyphoenix on Apr 23, 2010 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions
How about triple teamed too
The most under reported story in these playoffs is how Rose is playing even with the best player in the NBA with less of a team around him. I was at that game last night. Trust me, you don’t get a true appreciation of how good Rose really until you see it up close. I’m not sure what the philosophy of the “Jordan Rules” really was but whatever it was, Rose was getting that treatment. I’m talking about being trapped at the half court line by 3 Cavs and still breaking it a distributing the ball and scoring. Amazing.
Westbrook is pretty good but im with you. It does Rose a disservice any time he’s compared to another PG in this league or guys like John Wall. Westbrook is playing with Kevin freaking Durant. There’s no reason to compare them. Derrick Rose is right now as good as Dwayne Wade and he’s doing it with a jumpshot. From this point forward should from this point forward be respected as such. PERIOD.
I'm not sure which statement is more blindly homerific
Rose is playing even with the best player in the NBA
or
Derrick Rose is right now as good as Dwayne Wade
It will be found an unjust and unwise jealousy to deprive a man of his natural liberty upon the supposition he may abuse it.
George Washington
by snley on Apr 23, 2010 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
hahahaha. yep.
there is something awesome about Pargo, though.
Seriously. It’s kind of awe inspiring: he WILL shoot. He has no conscience. No remorse. He will shoot – the situation, the opponent, the country. He could be in zero gravity floating in orbit. The dude would be jacking up shots. And missing.
-MPG
You got something actually add to prove me wrong
or just simple comments?
If you really need evidence
Check out the comparison for James, Wade, and Rose for just this season. Let’s start with comparing Rose and Wade and stick with PER right now since including D only helps Rose. Wade = 28.0, Rose = 18.6. That’s not even close. While Rose was playing better over the second half of the season, his PER was still in the 20-22 range.
As to playing even with James, well, again, nowhere near a fact. Rose has played only 2 more minutes than James so far this series. Obviously, they’re playing at the same pace so we can just stick to the per game stats for this. James is averaging 34.3 pts, 8 rbs, 7 asts, 3 blks, and 1.3 stl with a 648 TS%. Rose is averaging 27.5 pts, 5 rbs, 5.5 asts, 1 stl with a .492 TS%.
Rose has been fantastic. He’s great fun to watch and an incredible player. It’s not fair to him to compare him to 2 of the best players in the game. He is far outside their league.
It will be found an unjust and unwise jealousy to deprive a man of his natural liberty upon the supposition he may abuse it.
George Washington
by snley on Apr 23, 2010 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Ok then fine
Let’s just say Rose has more than held his own in this series and played well enough to offset whatever Lebron has done in this series offensively. To the extent that if other Bulls players play well enough they leave themselves opportunities to gain traction and compete in this series.
As far as my comparison’s to Wade, I’m not sure of that what I said is far off at all. I’m not trying to break thing down in terms of just statistics. I think their games are similar. Rose is 21 years old and I do believe that at this time in his career that Rose already has a better outside game than Wade. I don’t think that’s blindly being a homer. I don’t see how I’m that far off in that comparison. When you compare statistics alone, you also have to take into account injury. I believe that in the last 10-12 games, including the playoffs, Rose is putting up something like 27 pts per game. I just don’t see how im that far off in that comparison.
Make up your mind or choose your words better
Rose has more than held his own in this series and played well enough to offset whatever Lebron has done in this series offensively.
Rose offsetting LeBron’s production is the same as saying they’re playing at an even level. Even at the offensive end, they’re not. Rose has been fantastic and let’s leave it at that.
As to the comparison to Wade, I don’t understand why so many here think that just because they’re both lightening quick guards from Chicago with incredible athleticism, that they must be close in ability and production. Wade’s a better and more efficient scorer. He’s a better creator for his teammates. He makes more of an impact on the defensive end. He’s a legitimate MVP caliber player. Rose is an All Star. Maybe he’ll one day reach the level of Wade, but right now, that’s too far a climb to consider it even a guarantee.
It will be found an unjust and unwise jealousy to deprive a man of his natural liberty upon the supposition he may abuse it.
George Washington
I made my comments about how...
Rose is playing compared to Lebron and I stand by them. I tried to give you an alternate choice of words on the issue to give more insight into why I felt that way and that still wasn’t enough. You act like Lebron is putting up 35 and Rose is giving us 20 and I’m making a silly comparison. In terms of THIS SERIES and THIS TIME, the production hasn’t been that far apart between the 2.
As far as Wade goes. Again I stand by what I said. At 21 Rose already has one attribute that’s better than Wade’s and he acquired it in one offseason and that’s a jumpshot. It’s fair to say that Rose has a chance to be as good as him. By the way, Rose isn’t the one getting his doors blown off by the Celtics…Without Garnett. So save it with the MVP talk like Wade is on some unattainable level that Rose can’t reach.
Sure, LBJ isn't outscoring Rose by 15, but by 7 at a more efficient rate
while also creating more assists makes the gap in production sizable enough to say it’s a silly comparison. At least, for me it’s silly.
As to Wade and his team’s struggles against the Celtics, well, he at least got his team to the fifth seed. A team, that if you took Rose and Wade away, is likely worst than the Bulls. The Celtics have played incredible defense in trying to make everyone but Wade beat them and his teammates haven’t been up to the challenge.
Oh, and shooting the long 2 may be the only thing that Rose does better than Wade. It’s also the least efficient shot in basketball. I’d rather he have worked more drawing contact and foul calls than settling pull up jumpers.
It will be found an unjust and unwise jealousy to deprive a man of his natural liberty upon the supposition he may abuse it.
George Washington
Yeah I agree with that
But I also hope that Rose does work on his 3pt shooting because it will really open his game up a little more
"He is far outside their league."
That is a bit of hyperbole, especially with respect to Wade.
Let's talk when Rose is even considered for MVP
It will be found an unjust and unwise jealousy to deprive a man of his natural liberty upon the supposition he may abuse it.
George Washington
Your obesssion with MVPaw ards is odd.
LeBron didn’t win his first MVP until his sixth year in the league. DR is obviously only in his second season. Hell, LeBron didn’t even make a playoff appearance in his first two years in the league, while Rose has essentially carried his paltry supporting cast against vastly better opponents (Boston and Cleveland) in his youthful playoff experiences.
Dwayne Wade has never won an MVP award.
Moreover, if MVP’s are the proper metric, Steve Nash is better than Wade and just as good as LeBron.
All of that aside, the real problem with your MVP analysis is that the award is almost always given to players on great teams. Unlike LeBron or the Wade of yesteryear, Derrick Rose is not on a great team. Derrick Rose is not surrounded by high caliber players, with the exception of Noah. I daresay that DR might score with more efficiency and ease if he wasn’t forced to go one on three on every critical possession. Just look at the way the Cavs defend him: throw two defenders at him above the arc; if he gets into the lane, collapse four or five defenders on top of him. That is how little they respect his teammates. It is entirely inequitable to condemn Rose for his failure to contend for an MVP when he is a on a relatively mediocre .500 team. Even Jordon didn’t win his first MVP until he had Pippin, Grant, and a 50 win season.
by 1958ChiTown on Apr 23, 2010 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I only use MVP talk as a way of segregating the best players
Mind you, and I didn’t communicate this well, I only refer to MVP caliber as in MVP caliber production and not in terms of the actual award. The reason, though, that I wrote about Rose even being considered for MVP is that, well, James and Wade are there every year and deservedly so. Along with Howard, Paul, and now Durant, I see them as the true elite of the NBA. Guys who will likely play at the level that deserves MVP consideration year in and year out. Rose is not in that group. Rose is not close to that group. When I say he’s not in their league, that is what I’m referring to. Do you think he deserves to be mentioned with that group, that cream of the crop?
It will be found an unjust and unwise jealousy to deprive a man of his natural liberty upon the supposition he may abuse it.
George Washington
"Rose is not close to that group"
Surely, you haven’t seen the guy play too much. He’s SURELY close to that group, and may even be widely considered to be IN that group next season.
He’s the only real offensive weapon the Bulls have, and defenses have known it all year. He gets double and triple teamed every game. He’s currently playing better against the Cavs’ championship-caliber defense better than anyone else this year (including Wade).
Sure, he doesn’t have the PER those guys have – mostly because he doesn’t get to the line, and his teammates cannot hit the wide open shots he creates for them – but talent wise, right NOW he’s definitely close to that group, and still rising.
by kozzer on Apr 23, 2010 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
and because he doesnt shoot 3s, steal passes, rebound or block shots.
there is something awesome about Pargo, though.
Seriously. It’s kind of awe inspiring: he WILL shoot. He has no conscience. No remorse. He will shoot – the situation, the opponent, the country. He could be in zero gravity floating in orbit. The dude would be jacking up shots. And missing.
-MPG
on OFFENSE!!!
not on defense.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
It's hyperbole to compare a 2nd year player to the two best players in the NBA.
"Boozer's dumb ass jumped. So I dunked on his ass."-Joakim Noah
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 23, 2010 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions
why prove the negative?
prove that you’re right.
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 23, 2010 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions
'because Dils said so' is not good enough, no.
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 23, 2010 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions
I know, sorry.
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 23, 2010 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Ok what do you think?
Admit it, i’m not that far off on the Wade comparisons. I’m not saying he’s better yet but it just seems that people are afraid to say that he’s getting close.
You didn't say that, though.
Don’t get frustrated and act like you’re calling people out for disagreeing with you on something you never even said.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
I said
“Derrick Rose is right now as good as Dwayne Wade and he’s doing it with a jumpshot” What did I say that I’m frustrated about?? I never said he was better.
You said he's as good as.
But now you’re acting like you said “he’s close” or that one day he “has a chance to be as good as him” and you’re getting all indignant for people not agreeing with those statements.
These are three different statements:
1) Rose is as good as Wade right now
2) Rose is close to how good Wade is
3) Rose can one day be as good as Wade
You said the first one and people disagreed with that. Don’t put words in other people’s mouths. It’s a strawman argument. And it’s weak.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
"Indignant"? I made a comment about Roseand the first
reply to that was that is was “blind homerism”. That could be called indignant. But it’s all good. There’s not anything that could be said on a sportsblog on a Friday after a Bulls win that could make me feel “frustrated” or “indignant” about anything. Or feel like I’m trying to create a straw man argument for discussion. I think you’re reading too much into my comments. And even if I was..so what? It’s all in fun and just opinions even if I do need revise what I said about Rose and Wade.
With that being said, I feel like what I’m seeing Rose do at this point of his career at the highest level in the playoffs does puts him on that level of Wade. They even have identical numbers right now in the playoffs and I’m really impressed with how well he’s played despite being literally triple teamed. So yes I think Rose is that good. He doesn’t have a ring yet or the years in the Wade has so I probably should explain my position a bit better but I do feel like he’s that good.
Soo... you can say whatever you want on the blog, but others aren't allowed to?
if you say stupid things just cuz, then i, and others, can call them stupid.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Tyger... What the Hell are you talking about?
I never said no one was allowed to say anything. I think you’re saying silly stuff right now and yet i’m still replying. I never said that what any of the other commentators just said, besides you just now, was silly. Nor that they needed to shut up, or anything. They have opinions, then I comment to their opinions.
If I make a comment and all someone has to say is “That’s blind Homerism” I’d like to hear why at least. Just for the sake of conversation about it. That’s all. You seem to be digging deeper into my friend.
I'm with you Dils
Rose is just as good as Dwade
Other than Defense and drawing fouls
"Michael Redd's owed 18.3 million next year. He can either opt out like an idiot or opt in like a douche bag." - NittanyCub
For all the carping about how rose is an ineffecient scorer Westbrook had a TS% under .500 this year...
yea he’s athletic, yea he’s good, but he plays NEXT TO THE LEADING SCORER IN THE LEAGUE.
Man, just let that sink in. He plays next to the leading scorer in the league — of course he has openings.
There is no comparison between being the 1 option on a team where Deng is the number two option and being the number 2 option the BEST SCORER IN THE LEAGUE.
sorry for the all caps, but I’m sick of the Westbrook might be better than Rose crap as well.
quick game thoughts:
Deng and Kirk and Noah came to play. Rose played like a superstar in that 4 minute stretch in the 4th where the Bulls were able to keep them at bay. No turnovers in over 90 minutes for rose, that is crazy. Thank god for 1.7 percent.
Gibson is being exposed as the 8th man he is. Please, please, please stop any sort of notion that this guy is good enough to prevent the Bulls from getting a real PF. Stop. that. now. media.
VDN didn’t screw up the rotation and had a timeout left that proved critical. Good job VDN, still contend he’s an average coach in a league where coaching doesn’t matter tthat much. Would like to see him gone, but not for any of the recycled names (frank, jvg, little general) that are frequently mentioned. Scott might be an upgrade.
all in all the Bulls are playing their asses off, Deng is showing real hurt and he is slowly regaining my respect. This thing is going back to cleveland and that means more basketball! hells yea.
I wonder if the Thunder would trade Harden for Kirk
12/31/08: Fire Vinny Del Negro.(upd: 1/7/10)
by NBA Observer on Apr 23, 2010 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions
We could all only wish.
I just hope the Bulls lock up Noah, because I have a feeling the Thunder are going to offer him a massive contract in a year. I think they can get by with giving Green “only” $10 million. Maybe he’ll take it. Durant will obviously get the max. If they take a next step and get a Top 4 seed next year, no reason they shouldn’t just offer Noah a MAX contract.
Westbrook – Maynor
Harden – Thabo
Durant – Thabo – Green
Green – Ibaka
Noah – Collison – Ibaka
Is the best team in the league for the next five to ten years. The Bulls are only better if… shit, I don’t know.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
BTW, Green is only the starting PF just because.
I hate Jeff Green and think he’s vastly overrated. I think he’s a slightly more athletic version of Kyle Singler. I thank the basketball gods the Sonics already had four 7’ centers when they took Green over Noah.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
That team's still going to have problems scoring down the road
The defense would be pretty overwhelming. Seems they’d be better off using Green and the little cap space they have for this summer to try to grab one of the PF FAs. Boozer, Amar’e, or Bosh added to that team probably makes them instant title contenders.
It will be found an unjust and unwise jealousy to deprive a man of his natural liberty upon the supposition he may abuse it.
George Washington
Personally, I don't think they'll have problems scoring with that team.
Durant is obvious. I think Harden is going to be a star and I think Westbrook will be inconsistent, but have some games where he can’t be stopped. And Noah is an awesome scorer… if not the most conventional.
yeah, I don’t even want to think about if they get Bosh this summer. If they do that AND get rid of Green, they’ll STILL have a chance at going after Noah next year. Who would you rather pair with Bosh and Noah: Rose, ?, Deng or Westbrook, Harden, Durant. The latter wins on potential in my book… but it’s already becoming realized.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
The Bulls can't lock up Noah yet
If they did, they wouldn’t be able to sign a free agent. It’s safe to assume they will resign him as soon as rebuilding the rest of the roster is done. Right now the only reason it isn’t mentioned is because it wouldn’t make sense to do it yet. I don’t think there’s any doubt Noah will be around for a long time unless he’s traded for a better player in a sign and trade. He won’t leave as a free agent.
"A common mistake made by baseball fans is to call a pitcher unhittable when that pitcher is not Matt Thornton." - Hardball Times
by Grinder in Training on Apr 23, 2010 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think that's true
they can sign Noah to an early extension, but his 2010 cap number would be the same since the extension starts the next season.
However it does hurt flexibility to sign him before free agency because Noah then becomes a ‘poison pill’ contract which makes him much more difficult to trade if the Bulls wanted to go that route.
I think the biggest reason they won’t extend Noah now is that they don’t know what the new CBA rules will be.
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 23, 2010 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
You are correct.
That’s what I get for trying to speed through 200 comments.
"A common mistake made by baseball fans is to call a pitcher unhittable when that pitcher is not Matt Thornton." - Hardball Times
by Grinder in Training on Apr 23, 2010 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions
No. They can lock Noah up this summer.
His salary doesn’t kick in until next year, 2011-2012, so his cap space is only what his third-year salary is right now. That will not change, whether they lock him in at a max contract extension (like James, Bosh, Wade) at $10 million (like Hinrich) or choose to wait another. His salary cap number/hold is what is for next season. That’s what makes it great: they can get Bosh AND lock up Noah.
Now, they probably won’t for two reasons: a) it could take a lot of effort to get a MAX guy first, especially if their first choice falls through; the Bulls have a process… so doing more than one big thing at a time worries me; plus, if Noah wants to see what his value is on the open market, if he doesn’t get locked up right away, he might just decide to wait it out b) the new CBA next year might reduce salaries and be better for the owners; if that’s the case, the Bulls might hold off to try and get themselves a friendlier deal.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
I'm not counting on the Thunder offering massive deals to anyone
until I see it happen.
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 23, 2010 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions
It's as likely as the Bulls.
Have we ever seen a team with such great young talent be too cheap to pay for it? The closest is what? ATL and Josh Childress… and that still has worked out in their favor. I know there have been cheap teams that have rather had a fire sale than field a 55-win team that’s in it’s prime… But this team just won 50 games with an average starter’s age of 23 years old.
I could see them going hard off to Bosh in some sort of sign-and-trade just to build off of this season. If they do that, keeping everything in tact except for Green or whatever, I could see them winning > 55 games and still being young.
To an extent, I agree. They’re broke, and they’re going to be broke. But I’m not sure there’s been such a talented young team where it’s had loads of potential AND production. They might break it up, but it would be one of the dumbest things ever done in the NBA. And that’s saying something.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
The Thunder could get by offering Green a lot less
He isn’t very good at all.
Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!
I know.
I just don’t know how it will all play out.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Why would Sam Presti be so comically stupid.
"Boozer's dumb ass jumped. So I dunked on his ass."-Joakim Noah
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 23, 2010 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Everybody misses sometimes. He's done a great job for the most part.
Kirk Hinrich sucks. The end.
by fundamentallysound on Apr 23, 2010 7:56 PM CDT up reply actions
i dont know about "great," but i think he was referring to the proposed harden for kirk trade.
there is something awesome about Pargo, though.
Seriously. It’s kind of awe inspiring: he WILL shoot. He has no conscience. No remorse. He will shoot – the situation, the opponent, the country. He could be in zero gravity floating in orbit. The dude would be jacking up shots. And missing.
-MPG
Correct, until the Finals, when it goes to 2-3-2.
by 1958ChiTown on Apr 23, 2010 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions
I really wish they would just keep it the same
2-3-2 is unnecessary nowadays. It’s not like the a west coast team is taking a bus to play an east coast team. I think that would make the Finals a lot better if it stayed 2-2-1-1-1.
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
i think
you’re underestimating 6 hour flights between LA and boston.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
You think so?
I guess it could be pretty tiring. Then again, they could just space those last 3 games out like they are doing between games 3 and 4.
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
Gibson vs Jamison
Who is winning that matchup ? To me its hard to tell, until Jamison scores 20 I’m giving a big nod to Gibson for his defense.
Bosh or Bust
by JockstrapNoah on Apr 23, 2010 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Game 1
Jamison destroyed Gibson. Gibson was obviously shell shocked being a rookie in his first playoff game, on the road, against Cleveland.
Gibson won the next two games though.
Vinny: "[Thrust] means pace, it means getting the ball out, it means getting your back to the sidelines, it means extending your outlets, it means getting the ball up the court into our early offense with plenty of time."
I disagree
Gibsons only had 5 boards an 8 points (and got blocked 3 times). Jamison had 19 points with 11 boards. GIbsons was lost most of the second half, to the point VDN chose Murray over him.
by JustAnotherFan on Apr 23, 2010 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
*gulp*
Vinny is getting better. He’s going to be our coach next year.
12/31/08: Fire Vinny Del Negro.(upd: 1/7/10)
ha, no way
Vinny has a decent team, and the playoffs suit his strengths of getting the fuck out of the way. And the Bulls are still likely only winning one game this series.
Changes nothing, VDN stinks, he’ll be fired.
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 23, 2010 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions
WE WINNING 2 dammit
1 for #13 and the other for #1
:::::injects hope vitamins into YfBB::::::::
"The Bulls Are Back" - D. Stern (2010)
At what point is it a legitimate question in your mind?
What if we take them to a competetive 6, or even 7, or somehow miraculously win the series (obviously speaking in hypothetical here)? What if we make it a series, stir up attention and the VDN is snap fired? How will that look to other potential coaches…going 2 for 2 for playoff appearances, taking the defending champs to unbelievable 7 game series, taking the current best team and best player to a competetive series, and having your superstar point guard publicly state that he hopes you return next year (being completely sincere from what I gathered), all the while having zero support from management and none of this is close to enough to keep your job. That’s quite alot of pressure to come in to. I really have no clue what the correct move is.
Maybe it'd indicate to serious coaches that the Bulls want a higher-level coach
but then they’d also have to pay for it, and that coach wouldn’t be required to genuflect to Reinsdorf before signing the contract.
I do see a scenario where if they go to 7 games or somehow win, the Org. keeps Vinny. Not because they think he became a better coach, but they’d be afraid of the PR hit and heck, they’re paying him already.
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 23, 2010 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions
I think we go for a big FA first
and then see what coaching opportunities present themselves. Vinny is at least already established with our team and arguably getting better (plus like you said he will be getting paid next year anyway). Is it really worth it to take another shot with a potentially marginally better coach? Many ppl here have said that coaching, unless you have a top tier guy like PJ or Pop, doesn’t make that much of a difference. So if there isnt a stellar guy out there to sign, is it important to keep Rose and Noah happy (not quite sure how Noah feels about Vinny tho)?
No, the coach will definitely be first
Bulls will be firing Vinny by next weekend. So they’re then to wait until July 1st without a coach?
I don’t believe keeping VDN makes Rose and Noah happy, they would be happy with anyone. That’s the whole point of this roster: ‘character guys’. They’ve made roster choices with it in mind, and this is the result. Talent deficient, but they try hard. They’d play hard for anyone who didn’t quit on them first (which I admit could happen but didn’t with VDN).
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 23, 2010 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions
It would be interesting if they DID wait, and let the FA help pick the coach
but I can’t see it, it’s such a long time until July 1.
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 23, 2010 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions
JR's so willing to hold off on paying the tax based on the quality of the team
why not wait on deciding on how much to pay for a head coach, or even to pay a fired one, until he knows what the team has done in free agency?
It will be found an unjust and unwise jealousy to deprive a man of his natural liberty upon the supposition he may abuse it.
George Washington
because the candidates will be potentially gone
and there’s something to be said for having a structure in place to pitch these guys, too.
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 23, 2010 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Wait, in which realm are we dealing with?
The speculative ideal of an organization that tries hard to assemble the best talent on the court, on the bench, and in the front office? Or the reality of cost and character and above all Jerry’s approval world? Obviously, waiting for a coach doesn’t work for the first.
It will be found an unjust and unwise jealousy to deprive a man of his natural liberty upon the supposition he may abuse it.
George Washington
I....don't know.
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 23, 2010 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Thank you for reinstating my faith in God.
After NBA Observer said Vinny will be our coach next year, I started to get an anxiety attack but your reassurance that he stinks and WILL be fired has brought my faith back.
Noah and Rose would still perform at their current level even if the Bulls were being coached by Neil Funk because their competitive nature is in their blood. I have to admit, as much as Vinny gets on my nerves, I actually do prefer him over Neil…..but if it was Stacey than I would go for the Bulls broadcaster in a heartbeat.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Apr 24, 2010 2:42 AM CDT up reply actions
Not after the Pax/VDN playground shoving debacle
It would take an act of God (Bulls taking the series) for management to even consider bringing VDN back.
by drew gooden's facial growth on Apr 24, 2010 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions
oh, and lebron is crazy good, i grew up in the church of mj and never thought i'd see better, but lebron is like that player you create in a video game that has 100 for all the abilities.
by madvillian on Apr 23, 2010 11:56 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
before
i think like 2k3 or 2k2 for ps2… they had finally put Jordan in a game, and his overall ratings was 104..
I'm cuckoo for Kukoc!!!
James is a 96 overall in 2k10
2K finally made the ratings ALOT more realistic this year…
Only James, Wade, Paul, and some others that I can’t remember off the top of my head are 96’s…
Just finished watching the game
Derrick was derrick
Noah played his game
It’s crazy how good we can be when Kirk shows up
Luol was entertaining
Though my favorite part was Vinny telling derrick that he needs to make a hard shot for the easy one he missed… and then Derrick makes a long three before the shot clock..
I'm cuckoo for Kukoc!!!
I thought the atmosphere in the UC last night was stupendous.
The crowd was engaged and at times even deafening. In my opinion, the See Red campaign looked a lot better in person than it did on TV. It appeared mottled on TV in large part due to some obstinant fans in the courtside seats and lower 100 level, who apparently won’t deign to remove their lustrous blazers and monochromatic Affliction t-shirts.
And I can’t repeat this often enough; Derrick Rose is amazing. Not only is he good, he is entertaining. Those two qualities don’t always coincide. For example, Shaq at his zenith was a great player, but not entertaining IMO. The same can be said of Tim Duncan and numerous others. Even LeBron’s game, while incredible, is somewhat brutal and ugly. When Derrick does something amazing, it really looks graceful and athletic. His speed is breathtaking. Two seasons of watching him and I still cannot believe what my eyes register. We are very blessed as fans to have him. The only thing I worry about is injury because he takes a great deal of contact and his success is premised entirely on his explosiveness. BUt for now, I’ll set aside those concerns and simply enjoy his unique gifts.
Yeah.. I don't get the See Red campaign not working out?
It looked great in person. Must not have shown up as well on TV?
"A common mistake made by baseball fans is to call a pitcher unhittable when that pitcher is not Matt Thornton." - Hardball Times
by Grinder in Training on Apr 23, 2010 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Did they give away "Seeing Red" t-shirts at every seat?
12/31/08: Fire Vinny Del Negro.(upd: 1/7/10)
by NBA Observer on Apr 23, 2010 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions
I showed up late, around start of 2nd quarter
And they were still giving out stacks of them at the door? Most people around me seemed to have one.
"A common mistake made by baseball fans is to call a pitcher unhittable when that pitcher is not Matt Thornton." - Hardball Times
by Grinder in Training on Apr 23, 2010 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Trade value
So what can the bulls now get for trading hinrich this offseason…….or maybe deng?…..it should at least be something good after their playoff performances
There's no sense in trading Deng
We could see if Milwaukee will trade us our 1st back for Hinrich and our 1st
by YaoPau on Apr 23, 2010 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
trading deng for what?
We get a SG or a PF and we just switched the position problem.
by JustAnotherFan on Apr 23, 2010 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Great game....
… although i wish we could’ve maintained that 20 pt. lead! That would have really sent a statement to the Cavs if you didn’t have that lapse on the defensive end. Other than that, we took care of the home court, as i knew we would- so if we can just repeat the same effort tomorrow night, we’re going to have us a nice lil’ series! GO BULLS!
J.I.
by Jeye15 The Legend on Apr 23, 2010 2:45 PM CDT reply actions
Winning a close game is harder then winning a blow out.
LeBron had a chance to win the game, and he got a charge and a turnover in the last couple minutes. That’s more impressive then finishing up against the scrubs. He also saw Rose take it to him a few times. That never comes up in a 20 pt. game.
"A common mistake made by baseball fans is to call a pitcher unhittable when that pitcher is not Matt Thornton." - Hardball Times
by Grinder in Training on Apr 23, 2010 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions
winning a blowout is harder
you have to score more points and hold the opponent to fewer.
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 23, 2010 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well.. yes.. I guess that's kind of obvious.
I meant the end of the game. Of course getting & sustaining a monstrous lead is not easy.
"A common mistake made by baseball fans is to call a pitcher unhittable when that pitcher is not Matt Thornton." - Hardball Times
by Grinder in Training on Apr 23, 2010 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions
hahahaha
that’s really funny.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
I'm very proud of this team
Derrick Rose and Noah have grown before our eyes this season. I have to give VDN credit for keeping the rotation short (No Pargo!) these last two games and doing a good job with the substitutions and time outs. Rose and Hinrich were ridiculous last night and Deng and Noah were active as well. Honestly, if they don’t win another game, they’ve met every expectation I could have for this season at this point. Having said that, I still would like to see them pull out this next game and at least make the rest of the series competitive.
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
all i wanted for the series
was for them to make it competitive, and maybe win a game (two if they’re lucky). they’ve already done that, aside from the first quarter of game 1… so i just hope they keep up the spirit even if they don’t win another game. i will be happy if they continue to play like this.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
Shockingly resilient!!
This team has a resilience that is impressive. Winning the last three games which was a must to making the playoffs was impressive. We not only would shock the world if we can win another game they would shock me.
Cavs in 7
We should have signed BG……. despite his lack of defense …we win this series if we gave him 12 mill. Its a shame that the Bulls, who see Derrick everyday, could not project and evaluate that he would be a transcendent player and that a shooter like BG……man.
Glad hickson is not playing, he would do some damage. Thanks Mike Brown.
Its funny some act surprised as hell that the Bulls won a game. haha. I told you all we will win all 3 home games, like Atlanta did against Boston in 08. Our team, now that its healthy is a 50 win team. We are not no scrub 8th seed, dammit.
"Michael Redd's owed 18.3 million next year. He can either opt out like an idiot or opt in like a douche bag." - NittanyCub
I knew we'd win at home...
…we’ve proven that we hold it down at the crib in the past, and in a 7 game playoff series. The real test is if we can UPSET a team in a 7 game series! And i have to agree with BigBalla10, Vinny did a great job on the coaching end, he showed poise and composure that reflected in the team’s confidence- even when the Cavs went on that 16-0 run. Kirk played like a true Bulls vet, Brad’s play was great, and i can’t say enough about Lou’s play on that one drive to the basket. Derrick showed much improvement as our floor leader, and played magnificently while dealing with the loss of his Uncle. Joakim was Joakim, and his overall presence on the floor was huge. I beleive we CAN make it a 7 game series- we’ve shown the Cavs that we can take their best shot, and bounce back. Again, time will SOON tell.
J.I.
by Jeye15 The Legend on Apr 24, 2010 6:51 PM CDT reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
NBA Playoffs Content Module
Related FanPosts on Blog a Bull
Related FanShots on Blog a Bull
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
