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WTF is going on with this team? Now VDN is a bully who pushes Gar and Pax around!??! I'm confused.

about 2 years ago Benny_tiny paxson43 94 comments 3 recs  | 

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what does it say?

having a hard time opening the link

by LoveForTheGame on Apr 14, 2010 2:35 PM CDT reply actions  

Highlights

Reported by Melissa Isaacson

Chicago Bulls coach Vinny Del Negro initiated the physical contact with executive vice president John Paxson during an altercation on March 30 — contrary to a report that painted Paxson as the aggressor — a source close to the situation told ESPNChicago.com.

However, a source close to the situation disputed who initiated that argument, and said that it wasn’t the first altercation Del Negro has had with management. The source said that Del Negro and Bulls general manager Gar Forman had an altercation in Forman’s office that was similar, but did not give details.

From ESPN Chicago

by paxson43 on Apr 14, 2010 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

maybe they meant

spaceship….

I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!

by piccolomair on Apr 14, 2010 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

I thought

Gomer Pile was in the Army.

by Bulls4Ever on Apr 14, 2010 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

It'll be interested how this all plays out.

I could see either VDN or management being the instigator.

Last year we also had the incident where BG went to Del Negro swearing at him. D’Antoni called him a backstabber or something to that regard.

But then again, the Bulls planted the story about CSKA Moscow offering Gordon a contract, and are known to have media hits. Very likely too that this is just the Bulls front office playing cover your ass by making up another lie (which they do so often).

"It’s gone on for so long now — ever since February — that I don’t think anything is going to change at this point," Skiles said. "The thing is, they sent [a media] henchman after me [Monday] morning, and I knew it was coming. [A certain reporter] would write an article accusing me of being greedy.

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by Andrew7 on Apr 14, 2010 2:38 PM CDT reply actions  

Can't wait for the Ben Gordon spin story on this:

“A source told Yahoo Sports that Vinny Del Negro was whipped by Bulls general manager John Paxson last season after playing Ben Gordon over his minute quota of 0 minutes a game.”

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by Andrew7 on Apr 14, 2010 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well this throws a wrench into the "Vinny leaking the story" theory

If the Bulls don’t make the playoffs I won’t need to watch basketball, its on to basketball.

by QUINTEN DALEY on Apr 2, 2010 12:38 PM PDT

by Option27 on Apr 14, 2010 2:43 PM CDT reply actions  

All Vinny is leaking is haymakers!!!

Somebody needs to take it to this front office. VDN FTW!!!!!!

by paxson43 on Apr 14, 2010 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thought about that too

Where is the official Bulls leak writer when you need him?

If the Bulls don’t make the playoffs I won’t need to watch basketball, its on to basketball.

by QUINTEN DALEY on Apr 2, 2010 12:38 PM PDT

by Option27 on Apr 14, 2010 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

there's an official Bulls leak writer?

Isaacson covered the Bulls in Paxson’s last playing days, and the year he was an assistant coach. Sam Smith has known him forever (and Pax was clearly a source for some of the Jordan Rules). McGraw seems to know what’s up with management, too.

If McGraw comes out with a bigger story than what he’s done so far, I’d tend to believe it would be the closest to what really happened. He seems to get things a lot more right than anyone else these days.

by KT on Apr 14, 2010 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

issacson was on espn 1000

just a few minutes ago, and she has a strong paxson bias, what if this was like a favor done to control (obscure) the story? gahh i have a huge test, and if the bulls game tonight wasnt enough of a distraction (with last nights game sitting on my computer waiting for me to watch it) this whole story and spin is making me lose focus….

taking it to another level, i open my math book to work on some math problems, and one of them is a height weight model problem of athletes, the illustration they used for the proble, a picture of ben wallace ben gordon and kirk hinrich posing for the start of the 2006 season….WTF….distractions everywhere!~

I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!

by piccolomair on Apr 14, 2010 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

And Mike

just commented on his blog on Isaacson’s story saying it’s crap.

by KT on Apr 14, 2010 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

What a weird way for McGraw to phrase it

He never said the new story was crap, but he alluded to it with the title. Here’s the link.

Basically, it’s “New Story Is Wrong In So Many Ways”, and the ways are “I can’t confirm there was a previous altercation with Gar” and “the focus should be on the players, not the staff”. No mention that the Pro-Pax story is false, though by the title it seems McGraw really wants to say that as well.

by YaoPau on Apr 14, 2010 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

he was being polite

I was interpreting. :)

It is a very, very strange thing.

by KT on Apr 14, 2010 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

it did the job

now people can say “I dunno! There are conflicting reports!”

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 14, 2010 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

KC?

it’s more like who isn’t the official leak writer, apparently.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 14, 2010 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

That was my first thought

You’d think that if VDN initiated, KC and McGraw wouldn’t have confirmed the initial story. Patiently awaiting another VDN retaliation…

by YaoPau on Apr 14, 2010 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ha

this is all bullshyt

by Belize on Apr 14, 2010 2:44 PM CDT reply actions  

wow

this just gets crazier and crazier…i love it though :)

by NormVanBeer on Apr 14, 2010 2:47 PM CDT reply actions  

Matt, you got your wish

If you had woken up a little later than usual, you would have woken up to all these “new developments”

If the Bulls don’t make the playoffs I won’t need to watch basketball, its on to basketball.

by QUINTEN DALEY on Apr 2, 2010 12:38 PM PDT

by Option27 on Apr 14, 2010 2:49 PM CDT reply actions  

GJ by the Bulls front office

Right before the season might end, they’re letting a source “leak” information about this fight. Now this.

VDN never stood a chance

by NittanyCub on Apr 14, 2010 2:57 PM CDT reply actions  

judging by the way this story is turning out

tomorrow we’ll learn that sam smith is the snitch leaking things out

WHAT WILL THE BULLS WORLD COME TO NEXT?! BULLS DRAMA STAY TUNED FOR NEXT WEEKS EPISODE

by sin on Apr 14, 2010 3:03 PM CDT reply actions  

Umm

Did Noah miss 10 games due to injury, which the Bulls all lost, or was it to smite Vinny Del Negro?

“[Del Negro] put his own interest ahead of the Bulls,” the source said.

Noah missed the next 10 games, all Bulls losses.Does that sound like a club trying to make the playoffs?

12/31/08: Fire Vinny Del Negro.(upd: 1/7/10)

by NBA Observer on Apr 14, 2010 3:11 PM CDT reply actions  

That quote, "put his own interest ahead of the Bulls"

really sticks out to me as weird. What source phrases things this way??

“So this was not the first time [Del Negro] exhibited this behavior” … and “[Del Negro] put his own interest ahead of the Bulls”

That’s manager-speak if I’ve ever heard it. Reinsdorf? Gar? Schanwald? KC wrote that VDN got written accounts of the altercation from witnesses right after it happened. If he started the fight, there’d be no reason to do this.

by YaoPau on Apr 14, 2010 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Its in everybody's interest to win right ?

If you have a disagreement on how to do that, then its a disagreement, not somebody having a different goal than somebody else. I think they Vinny Del Negro has exactly the same interest as the Bulls, making the playoffs, unless making the playoffs wasn’t the Bulls goal and Vinny decided to try to make the playoffs anyways. In that case, he’s a jerk, I can’t believe how selfish winning is.

Bosh or Bust

by JockstrapNoah on Apr 14, 2010 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

The org's interest

is much more long term than VDNs. If VDN is willing to reinjure a vital player so so he can get into the playoffs this year before he gets fired, there is a conflict.

Vinny: "[Thrust] means pace, it means getting the ball out, it means getting your back to the sidelines, it means extending your outlets, it means getting the ball up the court into our early offense with plenty of time."

by runningman on Apr 14, 2010 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Willing to reinjure?

Noah is dressing. He has taskmaster based incremental minutes. That plan alone could injure Noah.

From my perch, VDN playing Noah more minutes is more of a product on the exchange between the player and the coach IN THE GAME than it does anything else.

Now that we know VDN is getting instruction DURING THE GAME from the “we have a plan” front office then I’m more inclined to defend VDN than I am to blame him for playing a player that shows he can play.

12/31/08: Fire Vinny Del Negro.(upd: 1/7/10)

by NBA Observer on Apr 14, 2010 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Before the incident happened

Vinny was getting instructions before the game about how long it was safe to play Noah. Vinny went over what the doctors and front office told him was safe, which is what caused Paxson to get so mad in the first place.

Vinny: "[Thrust] means pace, it means getting the ball out, it means getting your back to the sidelines, it means extending your outlets, it means getting the ball up the court into our early offense with plenty of time."

by runningman on Apr 14, 2010 10:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yup
“I am looking forward to this opportunity and the challenges that lie ahead as head coach of the Bulls," said Del Negro.

Physical challenges

If the Bulls don’t make the playoffs I won’t need to watch basketball, its on to basketball.

by QUINTEN DALEY on Apr 2, 2010 12:38 PM PDT

by Option27 on Apr 14, 2010 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

The whole situation is a mess

Even if everything was Vinny’s fault, Paxson hired him. It’s on him. Hopefully this mess spurs Dorf to make major changes. Let’s hire the guy portland fired for the gm job. Word was he was excellent (of course he did get in a fight with the owner, haha)

by The90sBullsRevival on Apr 14, 2010 3:18 PM CDT reply actions  

Didn't that dude

make up trade counter parties too?

12/31/08: Fire Vinny Del Negro.(upd: 1/7/10)

by NBA Observer on Apr 14, 2010 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

If it turns out that the Bulls FO were trying to lie about Vinny causing this....

so they could fire him with cause, do you think that Stern might look into banning John Paxson and/ possibly Gar Forman, and whoever else was involved from the league?

That would seem like a pretty big deal to me, if the Bulls were trying to fire Vinny with cause (but without a real cause) and made stuff up to try to do it.

My gut feeling is that Vinny will probably come out as being pretty clean in instigating the whole incident, and I think this because of him going around and getting the written statements to say that Paxson instigated this entire thing.

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by Andrew7 on Apr 14, 2010 3:25 PM CDT reply actions  

if vinny started it thats one thing

if paxson did thats a whole nother room full of problems about to be opened

by sin on Apr 14, 2010 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Doubt it

Sterling is a massive racist who has been caught doing horrible things in his life and Stern doesn’t give a shit.

by Niwrad on Apr 14, 2010 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

no it went more like this

pax: pick a gun

vinny: YOU TOOK MINE AWAY WHEN YOU DIDNT SIGN HIM LAST SUMMER

by sin on Apr 14, 2010 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't care who initiated what contact but....

I think this whole situation is Vinny’s fault in the first place for playing Noah over the limit in the first place. If there was an imposed minute limit on Noah going so far back as the Portland game and Vinny went over it, that’s completely on Vinny. And obviously, playing him too much was a problem because it caused his setback. If that’s the case, Pax has every right to get a little upset at Vinny for doing it AGAIN.

Brad Miller is god.

by Poloplaya14 on Apr 14, 2010 3:45 PM CDT reply actions  

right, that's why you should care about that

it’s the reason it’s a story.

And Vinny playing Noah 2.5 minutes over that arbitrary limit, and he could’ve just been waiting for a stoppage in the game. It’s a shitty way to micromanage anyway, just sit Noah or trust your coach.

I think poloplaya just hearts the Bulls Org.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 14, 2010 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

I read somewhere

sorry I’ve read too many articles about this today that VDN had 7 opportunites to take him out.

That still seems petty to me but just sayin.

by CrashDavis on Apr 14, 2010 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

I have a pretty decent share of hate for the org (although probably not nearly as much as most here)

I just don’t really care about non-basketball stuff like this. So he lost his temper and shoved a guy. Yeah, like that’s the first time someone ever lost his temper and did something he regrets. Unless there’s a pattern of aggressive behavior from Pax (and I don’t see any evidence there is), I don’t think there’s a problem.

Brad Miller is god.

by Poloplaya14 on Apr 14, 2010 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

I remember:

as long as he didn’t sexually assault anyone. It’s the poloplaya standard

There clearly is a standard of Paxson’s emotions getting the better of him.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 14, 2010 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

I see what polo is saying about the Portland game being the first instance

and not the Suns game. But even so, just 2.5 minutes over, and Pax needs to chill the fuck out and get his puppet to do these things for him.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 14, 2010 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

I just think its part of a larger pattern

I don’t think you can isolate the Noah stuff from all the other reasons Pax is probably pissed at VDN. Paxson accused VDN of putting himself before a player and the team. There has to be more there than just overplaying Noah in Portland. This was probably building. I mean, if Pax just flies off the handle every time he is defied, than there has to be a number of victims in his past.

by Basketball Smurf on Apr 14, 2010 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think you're right

From player development to Pargo to play calling to suspect substitution patterns-everything that’s been discussed on BaB.

by hlac on Apr 14, 2010 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

bleh
And obviously, playing him too much was a problem because it caused his setback.

There is zero proof of that.

It’s plantar fascitis. You can aggravate this walking to your car. The treatment is pretty static and straight forward. Isolate the muscle at night, adjust the boot to add a stretch as the nights pass on, avoid major impact to the muscle, and don’t play at all.

Minute increases won’t help the healing.

Holding Noah out for the 10 games after the Portland game sounds ridiculous to me. Why was Noah even dressed for the Portland game? If they wanted it to heal then the club should have had Noah in street clothes for 15-20 games.

12/31/08: Fire Vinny Del Negro.(upd: 1/7/10)

by NBA Observer on Apr 14, 2010 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thanks Doc!

Any advice on what I should do about this rash?

by Basketball Smurf on Apr 14, 2010 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

You're a Bulls fan

and not a Grabowski so there’s no chance you have iodine around the house. Try whiskey. It should be in every Bulls fan’s medicine cabinet. Two parts in your mouth and one part on the rash. If that doesn’t get rid of it, repeat.

12/31/08: Fire Vinny Del Negro.(upd: 1/7/10)

by NBA Observer on Apr 14, 2010 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't buy it at all.

In a normal company/organization/business, when an employee attacks a higher up, it goes without saying that he’s fired, no? He does it twice, he’s definitely out on his ass, especially when he’s not making that much money, relatively speaking.

This story is bullshit. I don’t like Vinny the coach, but I feel bad for him. From observing him on the sidelines the last two seasons, he seems like a mild-mannered guy, and I’ve never really seen him lose his temper. On the rare occasion he gets a technical he looks like he’s acting. Of course, I don’t know Vinny personally, so he could be an axe-wielding mad man for all I know, but he doesn’t seem like the attacking type. This is made up.

This organization reeks.

Metal sharpens metal.

And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan

The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.

by dakoose on Apr 14, 2010 4:08 PM CDT reply actions  

Yep, that's my take as well

This team seemed to be positively aching to fire the guy, and they don’t do it when he twice accosts his bosses? That’s threatening to break my bullshit detector.

by Sports2 on Apr 14, 2010 7:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

If it's true that Del Negro has been

belligerent and disrespectful in the past, and that Vinny told Pax, “Fuck you” and started walking towards him, then I’d say Pax had every right to shove him.

"Deng is fired" - Neil Funk

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by RogersPark Kris on Apr 14, 2010 4:13 PM CDT reply actions  

Really

To shove Vinny? “Every right” to?

12/31/08: Fire Vinny Del Negro.(upd: 1/7/10)

by NBA Observer on Apr 14, 2010 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

OK, maybe not every right

But he could have been defending himself.

"Deng is fired" - Neil Funk

BullsAllDay

Follow me on Twitter

by RogersPark Kris on Apr 14, 2010 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

So you're perfectly OK with Vinny

instigating the altercation and having no repercussions for his deliberate aggressive act.

it’s true that Pax probably went too far in shoving him away, but it sounds like Del Negro was no angel as well.

"Deng is fired" - Neil Funk

BullsAllDay

Follow me on Twitter

by RogersPark Kris on Apr 14, 2010 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

no, Paxson definitely went too far

But I’m not even saying Paxson should be fired for it. It’s his history plus this that says he should not have the job.

Vinny should be gone too but for suckage reasons.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 14, 2010 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hey

Saying “f&# you” to Paxson’s face is a nomination for employee of the month in my book. But if that was actually lobbed at Paxson he still wouldn’t have grounds to touch Vinny.

12/31/08: Fire Vinny Del Negro.(upd: 1/7/10)

by NBA Observer on Apr 14, 2010 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

What was his deliberate and aggressive act?

Getting up and walking toward his boss while being cursed at?

Was he supposed to sit there with a stupid look on his face?

by Sports2 on Apr 14, 2010 7:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Spin.

Luol Deng 24 going on 54.

by SoulEater7 on Apr 14, 2010 4:42 PM CDT reply actions  

Yes the

spin machine is now in service.

by Bulls4Ever on Apr 14, 2010 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

More Organizational BS

Sorry, don’t buy the account that Vinny instigated it. Vinny has nothing to gain and everything to lose by being the aggressor. Despite knowing he will be fired since December, he’s been real professional in his approach. Doesn’t complain to the media, doesn’t throw people under the bus. The guy is clearly trying to keep his head above water for future coaching jobs.

On the other hand, Paxson has been a nutcase who has a history of blowing his top and sending out fake stories using his media henchmen.

I guess the saddest part about this whole mess is that you would have to be insane to want to coach this team next year. I can’t fathom one competent head coach wanting to work for these clowns.

by Niwrad on Apr 14, 2010 4:45 PM CDT reply actions  

somewhere Stan Albeck is laughing

If you got a long memory (and you’re old), you might remember Michael Jordan being on a similar playing time limitation in his 2nd year when he came back after breaking his foot. I’m pretty sure Stan Albeck got in trouble for playing MJ over the arbitrary minutes limit—the Bulls were trying to make the playoffs then also. Jordan eventually insisted on being allowed to play, and a few weeks later he was dropping 63 in Boston Garden.

Nothing really changes in this organization, I guess.

by vanillablue on Apr 14, 2010 4:48 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

Under The Chairman's rule

No, not really.

It’s too bad we can’t short Bulls stock. We could tank this insolvent piece of crap before the Summer.

12/31/08: Fire Vinny Del Negro.(upd: 1/7/10)

by NBA Observer on Apr 14, 2010 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Skiles

This incident sort of makes me wish I was a fly on the wall during the Skiles final days. With how abrupt it was and when it took place, I wonder if something went down there as well. Especially considering Skiles got a sweetheart deal on his way out the door.

by Niwrad on Apr 14, 2010 4:52 PM CDT reply actions  

Isn't a bit strange that the story only comes out now, when the Bulls are battling for a playoff spot?

I don’t care about who started the altercation, which did what and all those shit. But I do care about winning. And when the team needs to win at any cost is when the story comes out. Which make me thing about two things:

1- Someone doesn’t want the Bulls to make the playoffs so they can prove something or because they will not be in the org. next year (that would be Vinny)

2 – This are all a bunch of excuses they (Pax and Forman) will use if the Bulls don’t make the playoffs

Jannero Pargo = Larry Hughes 2.0

by bull83 on Apr 14, 2010 5:57 PM CDT reply actions  

Pax never really wanted Vinny.

I think that is where this all started. Pax wanted Dantoni, JR said no and the rest is history. There is no way this is just about the noah minutes, Vinny has angerd me all season long, and im just a fan.

Obviously Pax was in the wrong for shoving him, its unprofessional. So I guess Pax is a do as I say not as i do, type of guy. All in all its both a funny and pathetic story/situation but who cares, this obviously removes any possible doubt(if there even was any) of Vinny being fired, and for that im pretty much glad it happened!

The Org. is an idiotic mess, and Vinny cant coach, 1 of 2 gone is better then nothing

by TruEChiFaN... on Apr 14, 2010 6:00 PM CDT reply actions  

So if you are a coach or FA this summer

would you want to play for this organization as presently constituted? That’s my current worry-the spins not withstanding.

by hlac on Apr 14, 2010 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

I guess thats a logical concern

but personally I just dont think it matters, atleast for FA’s. The GM isnt going to treat a star that way(well I would expect not) and said player is going to get alot of money, so I dont believe they will give a shit.

Now as far as it effecting possible coaches, I think that would be the thing to worry about most, so I see your point.

But I would still maintain that, dollar bills and Championship thrills(the prospect of) is what brings guys in so this really does not worry me. The Org has done enough already to make guys not want to come here, I dont think this will be some tipping point

by TruEChiFaN... on Apr 14, 2010 6:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

VDN call this report completely false

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/ct-spt-0415-vinny-del-negro-john-paxson-b20100414,0,5586197.story

If the Bulls don’t make the playoffs I won’t need to watch basketball, its on to basketball.

by QUINTEN DALEY on Apr 2, 2010 12:38 PM PDT

by Option27 on Apr 14, 2010 10:13 PM CDT reply actions  

I believe him

If his been anything, he’s been professional. It’s much easier to believe Pax flew off the handle (since it wouldn’t be the first time) and if VDN would have instigated a fight, he could have been fired and risk not getting paid. There is no way he did that.

Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."

by bigballa10 on Apr 14, 2010 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

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