Would you trade Rose straight up for anyone?
by JSlakov on Apr 13, 2010 3:10 PM CDT
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This is more of an intellectual exercise than anything else, but I was thinking about today the possibility that if the Bulls signed Dwyane Wade and if it was shown clearly that he and Rose couldn't co-exist, who the Bulls might possibly think about trading him for. Two big ifs, of course, but for the sake of discussion, let's say it happens.
Is there anyone you would trade Rose for straight up given that scenario? Since I'm talking about only 1 for 1 trades, they'd have to either be on rookie deals or a real bargain veteran. Would you consider trading him for someone like Stephen Curry to get a shooter next to Wade? Someone like Kevin Love to get a post scorer to upgrade Gibson? Blake Griffin?
I wouldn't do any of those deals straight up because Rose has more value than all of them at this point in his career. And while I would do it for Durant, he has more value than Rose. Anyway, I just wanted to hear some ideas about who possibly would match up for a fair trade in that scenario.
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"Joakim Noah"
-Tyger
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"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 13, 2010 3:29 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
Tyler Hansbrough has untapped talent, too.
He’ll be better than Kevin Love. I guarantee it.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Really?
I disagree. I think Kevin Love has a long and solid career ahead of him. I can’t believe they have him coming off the bench, although I understand that he plays the same position as Big Al. I just think it’s a sign of poor team management when your two best players play the same position and have styles that don’t overlap.
But I do see Kevin Love as a Brad Miller in his prime type of player, and not just cause he’s big and white. Because he plays solid under the basket, but can knock down the 10-15 footer, starts the break with solid outlets, is almost always in the right position on offense, and doesn’t need the ball to get 12-14 points in a game to go along with his 12-14 rebounds. If he was playing with a point guard that could get him the ball every time he took the clever backdoor step to the basket, he’d score an extra 6 points a game.
He does need work, particularly on defense, he isn’t that quick, and he hasn’t learned to use his solid body and low center of gravity to keep others out of position as well as he should. But he’s made progress this year. But I think he is already the type of player that almost every team could use, and he has plenty of room to get better.
Hansbrough isn’t much of a jump shooter and isn’t a dominant finisher around the basket either, and doesn’t rebound very well. If I had to choose between the two, I’d take Love every single time.
2010... where relevant basketball in Chicago happens!
I assumed that the Psycho T thing
Was a joke. Especially considering that Love is already the superior player and is three years younger.
As for Love and Miller, Love is already a far more dominating rebounder than Miller ever was, and has a better low-post game. They do have some similar skills with the ball, but Love is superior there too.
If the T-Wolves are undervaluing Love as much as they appear to be, I’d love to see the Bulls make a run at him this offseason.
by MrSportsKnowItAll.com on Apr 13, 2010 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah...
In hind sight, it must be a joke, but when Tyler was coming out, there were some true believers.
Anyway, yeah, the reason I was so quick to defend Love is that I would Love to see the Bulls make a run at him as well. I don’t know what it would take. Maybe Deng, but the contracts don’t add up. They sure as fuck don’t need Hinrich now that they’ve drafted Flynn and Rubio, and might get the #1 pick in time to pick up John Wall!
But, if it was Wade and Rose, and Noah and Love… Every rebound is a fast break. If we could somehow put a Kyle Korverish player at the 3, I’d feel pretty comfortable competing against anyone. Especially because Wade and Noah would help mask the D deficiencies of Love and Rose. Although, I’m assuming both those players continue to get better on that side of the ball as they progress.
2010... where relevant basketball in Chicago happens!
I was making fun of myself. I actually said that two years ago.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
WHAT.
Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!
lol. Oh well, reading is not fun [damental?]
Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!
"Michael Beasley"
- JSlakov, draft day
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"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 13, 2010 3:30 PM CDT reply actions
have u been reading old threads again?
or maybe u do it quite frequently but do a good job of hiding the fact…
I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!
haha, no. that'd be sad
I guess I have a good memory? The pro-Beasley contingent was maybe more memorable because it was so few. I’m just having fun with him, I’m wrong all the time. Don’t you ever trade Deng and Gordon for Kobe.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 13, 2010 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions
eh i was part of the pro beasley camp
im glad i was wrong…
I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!
haha
I saw that coming. If we strike out on any free agents this year (or worse sign someone not worthy), I might still wish we’d picked him. But that’s another discussion.
yea
As soon as they drafted Rose, they decided to blow up the Bulls team as it was and start over. The only reasonable option for that was to go for the 2010 free agents (which is why at the time I advocated letting both Deng and Gordon play out their final seasons on one year deals). If that works out, then good, all signs points to them having drafted the better player.
However, if they had drafted Beasley, he would have immediately filled the Bulls biggest need. He would have likely gotten the opportunity to play major minutes for the Bulls and could have averaged 20 and 8 his rookie season and might have improved on that his second year instead of regressing due to, in my opinion, him being an awful fit for the Heat. Him and Noah would complement each other greatly in the front court and we’d have shooters around him in Deng, Gordon and Hinrich, if someone could actually teach him to pass. But we’ll never know now how it would have played out.
Anyway, if we get someone good this offseason in free agency, I’ll have no regrets.
by JSlakov on Apr 14, 2010 12:30 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I am totally with you
Not that that counts for anything :)
"I skim a LOT of what gets said here
in a race to put in a smirky retort."
-your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 16, 2009 4:52 PM EDT
also
we would have had two defensive studs in Tyrus and Sefolosha backing up the defensive liabilities on that team…
I love Rose, but am I the only one who would like to know how that would have turned out?
I think we all know how it would've turned out...
With beasley becoming the same player he is now: a player too small to play PF and be a true low-post scorer that’s also a terrible defender.
Brad Miller is god.
by Poloplaya14 on Apr 14, 2010 12:49 AM CDT up reply actions
well
I don’t agree with that assessment, but I can understand thinking that because of the situation he’s in. If he had gone to a team like the Thunder were Durant’s rookie year, he would have had a better rookie year than Durant, but instead he had to play alongside Wade and they just don’t mix well.
sorry, all that came to mind was prickish joke answers :-)
don’t hate me Slakov. (Tyger knows the score.)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 13, 2010 3:30 PM CDT reply actions
If u trade rose
it wouldnt be for a guy who still is developing into an allstar (so he may not develop into an all star) ud want someone proven, and i guess the only reason ud trade rose would be to complete a better fit, so in ure scenerio we have d.wade, and assuming we have noah, taj, deng, and kirk…maybe u trade rose to get a chris bosh, but it would have to be to simply complete the team, cuz roses age, upside, and ability to reach that upside, makes him worth keeping around even if he isnt a number one option, because u can keep him around while searching for that number 1 option (in ure scenerio u have wade, who is much older, so u go into lets win right away mode, and thus trade rose for the player to complete the team and go all the way)
I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!
This is really difficult
Rose’s intrinsic non-basketball value sort of skews things. He’s the hometown guy, and he’s ‘ours’ already, so I can’t see him being traded for comparable talent. Are we supposed to care about that in this exercise? I guess not.
So not saying the Bulls would do this, but I’d say: Durant
Likely Brook Lopez. Maybe Tyreke Evans though I’ll assume if Wade/Rose couldn’t coexist neither could those two.
Rose is making 6,983,708 in 2011-12 (let’s assume they spend at least one season before giving up on Rose-Wade), so you can get a player at ~$8.73m, but that doesn’t free up a lot of affordable veterans. Paul Milsap? David West? (Hey look, Kurt is making $8m in that season.). Maybe Al Horford, but he’s a RFA that year so the salary won’t be valid.
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"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 13, 2010 3:50 PM CDT reply actions
Didn't read the rules, I think.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
lol..I sure didnt. Just read the title and commented away....
now ive read..and well..i like curry, but not enough to trade rose.
I mean if you're factoring salaries into the equation, the only possible answer to this question is Kevin Durant.
Kirk Hinrich sucks. The end.
by fundamentallysound on Apr 13, 2010 4:11 PM CDT reply actions
but....
this is after the Bulls get Wade, which will be next year, after Durant is extended (unless he hates OKC) and he has a Poison Pill Provision (PPP). Soooo… tough.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Durant is the only possible answer
Rose is extremely talented, so you need to get someone as talented back. There are a lot of other very nice young players out there, like Blake Griffin, Brooke Lopez, Tyreke Evans, Steph Curry, etc, but I can’t say any of them are on the same level of Rose. And even Durant I’m unsure about.
I would say Lebron as he is clearly the best player in the league, but he has also played a LOT of minutes over his already long career. I think I’d rather keep Rose and the 10+ years we still have to look forward to than Lebron and his impending breakdown. (Granted if anyone is an exception, it would be Lebron.)
Will Lopez get any better though?
Is he good enough that if he doesn’t get any better, we’re satisfied?
Evans isn’t as good as Rose or Wade at driving (although he’s definitely in their category), and he’s not much of a passer. I wouldn’t do it.
by Stacey_Is_King on Apr 13, 2010 11:01 PM CDT up reply actions
We're assuming Rose has leaps and bounds of improvement to make
He might, but then again, he might not.
Brad Miller is god.
by Poloplaya14 on Apr 13, 2010 11:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Brook Lopez or Kevin Love are about it.
Hinrich (gag) – Wade – Deng – Noah – Lopez
Can I then trade Hinrich back for Gordon?
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
the fact that Kurt does nothing will allow Wade to fully realize his potential
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"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 13, 2010 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
I think that would be pretty interesting
"I skim a LOT of what gets said here
in a race to put in a smirky retort."
-your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 16, 2009 4:52 PM EDT
How can some people say they don't think
D wade will make us a Championship-caliber team, but Lebron will? Last time I checked D wade has more rings than Lebron.
Favre + 3 = ❼ = Vikings= 2009-2010 NFL Champions= New Stadium=Greatest Fans and Team!
by UnBannedVikingholic on Apr 13, 2010 4:44 PM CDT reply actions
check again
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"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 13, 2010 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
There's nothing to check
It’s a fact!
Favre + 3 = ❼ = Vikings= 2009-2010 NFL Champions= New Stadium=Greatest Fans and Team!
by UnBannedVikingholic on Apr 13, 2010 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions
but you should go check again anyways
keep looking!
Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!
Steve Kerr has more rings than LeBron too..
Stupid Stat to refer to in this kind of argument. LeBron easily wins a title with the team Wade had that year. (and no, Shaq this year is not the same).
"A common mistake made by baseball fans is to call a pitcher unhittable when that pitcher is not Matt Thornton." - Hardball Times
by Grinder in Training on Apr 14, 2010 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions
The overall quality of the league has jumped up quite a bit since that year as well.
Kirk Hinrich sucks. The end.
by fundamentallysound on Apr 14, 2010 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions
"trade Rose ASAP because it'll be hard to do so later"
-Doug Thonus
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"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 13, 2010 4:47 PM CDT reply actions 4 recs
(I'll stop soon)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 13, 2010 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Do a podcast with Thonus
This needs to get done!
by LoveForTheGame on Apr 13, 2010 11:17 PM CDT up reply actions
I've done one before, it was great
we probably would stay away from ‘why are we fans?’ type talk though. Clearly we’re on different pages there.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 14, 2010 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions
NO YOU DIT'INT!
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
heh
based on his feelings regarding the Org., I’m guessing Doug is a pretty easy-going individual, and such I don’t think he’ll hold my jabs at him against me. :-D
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"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 13, 2010 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions
LOL
Have you started drinking already?
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
For Rose, I'll take any top young player still on his rookie deal + at least 2 unprotected 1sts
I might do rose for brook lopez straight up, but that’s it. But any player could work with enough draft picks tied to him. I’d trade rose for eddy curry if we also got all their draft picks in years that start with a 2 and end with an even number. Hell that actually doesn’t sound tha unlikely…
Brad Miller is god.
You wouldn't trade him for Al Horford?
Granted Horford doesn’t have as much upside as Rose, but as they say you can never have too many quality big men.
Not if I was waterboarded.
Vinny: "[Thrust] means pace, it means getting the ball out, it means getting your back to the sidelines, it means extending your outlets, it means getting the ball up the court into our early offense with plenty of time."
League is built for Rose
The current rules are built for players like Rose. He isn’t one of the top 10 players in the league yet, but you have to factor in potential. I think he’ll end up being a top 10 player and battle Paul for best PG in the league.
With that said, I would trade him for Lebron and Durant without second thought. I would also most likely give him up for Melo and would have to think hard about Wade (due to durability and age).
I wouldn't trade him outright for ANYBODY.
I’m actually shocked and disappointed people are considering this. Derrick is our boy, potential top 5 player.
I'd consider Tyreke
He would primarily play shooting guard and Wade could handle the ball. He will wrap up his rookie campaign averaging 20/5/5. Pretty impressive stuff.
Oh my god
Last game with Rose attackign and dismantling Rajon Rondo the way he did, just made me want Wade more.
Having 2 of those players on the court at the same time, attacking from both angles, would be phenomenal.
Come on Wade come home.
And as to your question if I’d trade Rose for anyone straight up, only Lebron.
He’s too young and explosive and improving by the week….
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
"Having 2 of those players on the court at the same time, attacking from both angles"
Another reason Deng needs to learn how to hit the 3. Bulls need to be able to spread the court with Rose and possibly Wade attacking the rim. The NJ game Deng hit back to back 3’s on 2 trips down the floor. I had to pinch myself.
wade is 7 years older than rose
no way I am trading rose under these circumstances unless it is for a guy that gets you a championship asap. Bosh, melo. Sorry, maybe that’s not the rules of this post, but that’s the way it has to be.
by Uncle Stanley McGoober on Apr 14, 2010 9:43 AM CDT reply actions
Durant, I'd do it without thinking twice.
Otherwise, straight up, would rather have Rose than anyone else under the circumstances laid out (rookie contract, etc..).
"A common mistake made by baseball fans is to call a pitcher unhittable when that pitcher is not Matt Thornton." - Hardball Times
by Grinder in Training on Apr 14, 2010 1:17 PM CDT reply actions
These are the only players I might consider
under those guidelines.
1) Brandon Roy – still under rookie contract this year.
2) Brooke Lopez – just because he is a center.
3) Kevin Durant – his size makes him a match-up nightmare for anyone.
4) Tyreke Evans – gonna win this years ROY.
Tyreke Evans plays in a similar style as DRose, though he is bigger. If Wade and Rose would conflict, Evans and Wade would conflict too. So he is out.
Brooke Lopez is a center and centers are harder to find. Though, I dont think his upside is as big as Rose’s is.
So I guess maybe for Durant or Roy, I would trade DRose.
Now if the Nets would trade their #1 pick and Lopez for DRose…
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