Setting Up the Off-Season
by Ceasaleo on Mar 8, 2010 1:45 AM CST
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PrintWe may or may not make the playoffs, I really don't think it hurts our status as players for the big name free agents this summer if we don't. Players watch games and know what's going on in the league. They know our best inside defensive presence and rebounder is out. They can still see that this young squad is fighting hard for vics. And they definitely can see the potential of playing beside D.Rose.
I think I'm warming up to the idea of going after D.Wade hard in FA. I was originally one of the "he doesn't fit" crew, but I'm watching him more closely now and think the 2 could make a nice combo. I can live with Taj starting at the 4 (he just reminds of me of Horace Grant so much) and I think this summer he comes back with more muscle and a consistent 15-18 foot jumper.
The thing I'm thinking about most is what complementary pieces do we get? Will we have enough money to get our max player and 2 lower-tier free agents? What r we going to do in the draft, cuz I figure that will shed some light on who they place as a priority FA.
My thoughts and what I would do follow...
OK 1st things 1st, the draft. Even if we don't end making the playoffs or with a higher pick than Milwaukee and they swap, it's not like we'll be losing that many spots. We will still pick in the 14 - 18 range. I truly expect this pick to be used on a big man, either included in a trade to land a young big like Bass, West or Millsap or maybe just to move up and pick the guy we want. Truthfully I wouldn't mind missing the playoffs entirely. 2 things will result in that: u know Vinny will definitely be out and we could end up with a top 3 pick, we've been pretty lucky lottery wise lately. Then we take the best big for our system. Some guys I'm already drooling over r Greg Monroe (my personal favorite), Derrick Favors. Patrick Patterson, and Cole Aldrich. With our 2nd rounder, u pick up a combo guard like Greivis Vasquez or Dominique Jones.
My scenario: We end up with the 17th pick(just making the playoffs, but having to swap with Bucks), package that with Hinrich, James Johnson and our 2nd rounder to get Washington's #8, their 2nd rounder, and Nick Young. We pick up Monroe in the 1st and Vasquez in the 2nd.
Now in free agency, we HAVE to get D.Wade, Lebron isn't leaving Cleveland, Bosh isn't leaving Toronto, and Wade is a better option than Boozer or STAT. U can tell when u watch Miami Heat games that he's not too happy with the squad around him, especially Beasley, he seems constantly in his ear about hustling or mistakes. Granted, I haven't seen many full games, but whenever I have, that's what I've observed. I think he wants out, no matter who they want to bring in there to help. I think they lost him at the trade deadline with no moves.
U get D.Wade and are left with a lineup like this:
PG D.Rose /Vasquez
SG D. Wade /N. Young
SF Deng /
PF Gibson / Monroe
C Noah / Asik
Now with what's left in cap space we go out and get a Q. Rich and Mike Miller for cheap as a backup to Deng and some added shooting off the bench, and bring back Brad Miller for insurance down low. I can't see any of those guys getting contracts much over 2 -3 mil per and Brad will take the vet's minimum.
And this is your 2010-2011 Bulls Lineup:
PG D.Rose / Vasquez
SG D. Wade / M. Miller / N. Young
SF Deng / Q. Rich / M. Miller
PF Gibson / Monroe
C Noah / B. Miller / Asik
My questions to you guys are: Where do u think we go in the draft? What complementary players do u go after, after we sign our max FA? And how feasible do u think my plan is?
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Sadly
We don’t have a second round pick for the next 3 drafts. This year it’s owed to Portland (Omer Asik deal), over the next two years it goes to Milwaukee (John Salmons deal).
"I skim a LOT of what gets said here
in a race to put in a smirky retort."
-your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 16, 2009 4:52 PM EDT
I have zero interest in that Wizards-Bulls trade you proposed
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Mar 8, 2010 11:04 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
NO WAY/ WHAT HAPPEN TO ARENAS
The trade with the wizards wouln’t happen because they already have a expensive point guard in arenas and trading for another would be stupid. The wizards aren’t going find anyone to trade arenas with, so they are stuck with him, why be stuck with two point guards and one probably will have to come off the bench which would be hinrick.
im guessing they find a way to void his contract this offseason
Practice beats talent when talent doesn't practice.
Your guessing wrong.
If they were going to be able to do that, it would have been done.
2010... where relevant basketball in Chicago happens!
I think it's a bit complicated.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 8, 2010 2:18 PM CST up reply actions
yeah they need to figure out a lot of things
i think they wait till the offseason to do it
Practice beats talent when talent doesn't practice.
Actually...
Arenas funtcions best when he’s playing off the ball as a 2. He’s never really been a true PG. By getting Hinrich, they would be getting a true PG that can run the show for Flip, and defend whoever the opposing teams’ best backcourt player is. At least that was my thinking.
I hate when people assume that (insert big name FA) isn't leaving
Nobody here has any clue as to what they’re intentions are.
Brad Miller is god.
I think it's safe to assume that it's likely they won't leave
even if nobody can be sure of it. Big time FAs rarely leave, but this is a special offseason.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 8, 2010 1:33 PM CST up reply actions
I agree that it's likely they stay put
But what bothers me, is that people seem so sure one FA (LeBron) won’t leave, but the others would. Which is what makes no sense to me. Of all the FA’s to leave, I’d think LeBron would be the one. So what if he’s from Akron? Cleveland is a shithole. Just look at this objectively:
Bosh – lives in an amazing city, has the best supporting cast and wants to be the focal point of his team, which he currently is in Toronto. I’m surprised how many people seem to think Toronto is not a great place to live. He has a good front office in place now that knows what they are doing, and has built winners before.
Wade – Lives in an even better city, has won a championship there, and the ownership has set themselves up to surround him with talent this offseason.
LeBron – Plays in one of the worst, if not the worst, city in America (your move Detroit), his supporting cast is mediocre or old going forward. Front office has set themselves up to win this year, but if they don’t, do you really like their chances more in 2010-11?? Has said he wants to be a Billionaire, clearly enjoys the lime light, and would most likely embrace a bigger city environment of New York, Chicago or LA.
I get that they probably all stay home, but I don’t get why it’s assumed LeBron is the least likely of the three to move. I still haven’t seen a rational explanation of this. If you want to use the hometown argument, then why isn’t likely that Wade comes to Chicago or that Bosh forces a sign & trade to Dallas?
by Grinder in Training on Mar 8, 2010 1:54 PM CST up reply actions
I completely agree that the 'Bosh is too (whatever) for Toronto' is overblown
but relative supporting cast or not, he’s in the worst situation in terms of winning (Cavs are contenders now, Miami at least has cap space). Plus he seems the most likely to decide to become a wingman to another big-time star (though his comments say otherwise).
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 8, 2010 2:17 PM CST up reply actions
This year I'd agree
But going forward, I think I’d take his supporting cast of LeBron’s. And I have more faith in Coangelo over Ferry. Perhaps my bias against Mo Williams and Delonte West is clouding my judgement. Or I’m underestimating Hickson, which is quite possible.
Just seems like Bosh’s supporting cast is younger, and in the future will be better, which is what matters most when signing a 6 year deal.
by Grinder in Training on Mar 8, 2010 2:41 PM CST up reply actions
I think that was yfBB's point
He doesn’t have the chance to win it all this year like James, and his team doesn’t have a ton of flexibility to reshape for the future like Wade.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
What does this year have to do with resigning?
Is my point. Yes, I agree that this year LeBron has a better chance, but considering they are signing a contract for the next 6 years and not this year, wouldn’t it be more important which team is better going forward? Over the longterm, I’ll take the Raptor’s supporting cast over the Cav’s, and Coangelo’s ability as a GM to reshape the roster in the future.
by Grinder in Training on Mar 8, 2010 4:34 PM CST up reply actions
Yes. Of course.
Although, if James wins a championship in Cleveland (or if Bosh had a legit chance to win one this year), don’t you think it can be argued that it could actually keep them in their current cities?
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Possible
Although, as some have pointed out, if LeBron wins, maybe he will feel better about leaving. And, again.. he’s signing for the future, not for this year. So even if they do win this year, it doesn’t mean they could win next year. This is probably the best roster they will have for a while.
by Grinder in Training on Mar 8, 2010 6:01 PM CST up reply actions
I have no idea whether LeBron wants to leave Cleveland, but I agree with your description, GIT.
Although I believe Detroit is the worst city in America, Forbes magazine just awarded that dubious honor to Cleveland, thus elevating Detroit to number two on the list of declining shi&holes.
Maybe we can get Mayor Daley to have the governor pass an ordinance waiving any state income tax to all NBA Bulls players who have the initials LBJ, DW, or CB which can be sold as a stimulus plan to increase tax revenues from stadium receipts and sports memorabilia. Florida has no state income tax which I’m sure, plays a role in Wade’s re-signing with the Heat, besides the lure of North Beach. We can offer North Avenue Beach in the summer and maybe free yearly passes to any gentlemen’s club of his choice, subsidized by the taxpayers, since he has a reputation for partying at such establishments, according to his ex-wife.
Rose and LeBron could become the most lucrative advertising duo since Wade and Barkley or they can become a trio as all the big name Chicago Ad agencies scramble for their services. This isn’t as far-fetched as it may sound. After all, JR got the city to finance a large portion of their new baseball stadium so why can’t he get the politicos to help finance the NBA’s top basketball stars?
In other words, Chicago should have a leg up over any other city except Gotham for non-basketball perks and best of all, we still have our player friendly coach to lure them away. Can you imagine the impact of flying into O’Hare and then being escorted over to the United Center to meet Jerry in a stretch limo driven by Vinny?
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Mar 8, 2010 8:58 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Based on everything I've read/heard/inferred about the big 3...
I’d guess the odds of lebron and bosh leaving are both greater than 50%. But that’s just a guess. My point is specualting on other people’s intentions is just speculation. Making absolutist statements like “waxe’s not leaving Miami” implies that there is a 0% chance that he leaves, which is simply not the case.
Brad Miller is god.
So... the Bulls will trade a 2nd rounder they don't have and then use another one they don't have to get Vasquez?
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
by tyger1147 on Mar 8, 2010 3:20 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I'm pretty sure someone already pointed that out
I’d still do the deal, just without the 2nd rounder involved. If they don’t want to include their 2nd rounder…
How hard could it be to buy one, I saw a lot of that in last year’s draft.
from the Bulls?
$$$$$$$$
I don’t know.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
this will be an interesting off season for the bulls......
their 1st round pick may or may not be worth anything, a possible bench piece at best. then the big free agency period……lots of unknowns here, miami will have a real tough time even though they have cap room, they have to somehow sign one of the big free agents and try to sign DWADE at the same time. wade probibly won’t sign without knowing who he is gonna have to play with….disadvantage- miami. can miami lure bosh to play with dwade? sure but then miami needs to pay both those guys big money,and what will they fill the rest of the roster with? wade needs to realise that if he wants to come home and play for the bulls, nows the time to do it ! paired up with DROSE, and a young team with some pieces, it could be a real good ride for the length of his contract.
lebron is iffy, right now i think about a 35% chance he goes elsewhere. and that could change depending on how the cavs finish this season. bosh, i would put him at about 65% chance to leave right now. he seems to be saying what needs to be said right now, not wanting to give anybody the inside track for his services, he may know where he wants to wind up for all we know. my guess is the bulls target wade first, bosh second, and joe johnson third (although i don’t know why for that kind of money). don’t discount the possibility that other players like boozer, lee, or just about anyone else that the bulls front office has a “woody” for, would be in the plan…..after all this is the bulls.
"bench piece at best"
I disagree. While it’s likely we won’t get more value out of our first rounder than a bench player, that’s not the beat case scenario. Keep in mind that Kobe Bryant fell to the 13th pick.
Brad Miller is god.
That's because he was drafted out of High School when people were still dodgy about that.
that’s like referencing Ginobili in terms of where he was in the draft, which was because the Spurs had international scouts before a lot of other teams.
You can still get a steal, but the chances have gone down a lot.
Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!
[I would reference, like, Danny Granger.]
Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!
I suppose you're right
But my point is striking gold and finding a starting-quality player in the middle of the first round is far from impossible.
Brad Miller is god.
I think that Lebron might be the most likely of the ‘big 3’ to leave their current team.
Of course nobody knows these players inner thoughts, but the behavior of their respective teams may give a clue to their intentions.
As I recall it the Bulls offered Toronto Noah and Deng at the trade deadline for Bosh. Apparently Gar was laughed at and then hung up on, this may be an exaggeration but it seems they didn’t even consider it. Considering that Toronto is not a contender WITH Bosh this seems a pretty good offer to turn down so adamantly unless they were very sure that Bosh would re-sign with them. So though they may not know for certain Bosh’s intentions, it seems they are confident that he is going to be a Raptor next year.
In Wade’s case, Miami has made little effort to put a contending team around him. They have set themselves up have an oppotunity to bring in a max FA this offseason, but in the meantime they have basically wasted two of the prime years of his career. He has shown his displeasure with this state of affairs many times, never more than this season. Yet Riley has shown no sense of urgency to placate his star player whatsoever. To me there’s only one logical reason for this, they are certain Wade is staying regardless of his grumblings. The owner himself gave a figure of 95% certainty. Again, nobody else knows his inner most thoughts, but Miami’s management at least is very confident.
Now Lebron’s case is different. Though earlier I thought it was a forgone conclusion that he was going to stay in Cleveland, now I’m not so sure. Primarily this involves the completely opposite manner in which the Cav’s have dealt with Lebrons impending free agency, as opposed to the Wade/Miami situation spelled out above. The Cav’s have fallen all over themselves in an effort to placate Lebron and construct a team which is built to win NOW. They have spared no expense in aquiring players like Shaq, and Jamison who will only decline after this season. In other words, this is a team built to win now, but not neccesarily 2 years from now. I think Shaq’s deal is expiring, but Jamisons I believe has quite a bit left. At any rate it seems they are deathly afraid he will leave after this season. I am not really convinced he has any intention of leaving Cleveland, but it doesn’t seem that they’re as confident that they’re going to keep their superstar, as Toronto and Miami are.
I disagree
Their organizations might be banking on their guys staying, but they could easily be wrong. All I can say is, if it was suc a foregone conclusion that they would stay with their respective teams, why would they not just sign their max extension and get on with it?
Brad Miller is god.
We always disagree, that’s the “fun” part.
I carefully worded this post to avoid just such a response…apparently it didn’t work. All I said was that based upon their actions/inactions it appears from the outside that these 3 respective organizations believe as I said. While members of these orgs. are better placed to know these players intentions than WE are; I specifically mentioned in each case that they couldn’t know for certain each players inner thoughts or intentions. Lebron, Bosh, and Wade THEMSELVES likely don’t know what they will do.
Fair enough
I’m just saying, just because their orgs are planning as if they’re staying, doesn’t mean that’s the case. The Cavs had no choice but to go balls to the wall building a team around Bron, because if they didn’t, there’d be no chance of him staying. Miami’s situation is very unique. I feel Wade’s actions are completely dependent on who Miami brings in alongside him. I think they’ll almost certainly get someone pretty good, and he seems to like the city, so he’s the only one who I’d bet on staying. And as for Bosh, I feel like the Raptors might’ve made a huge mistake in not trading him, but to be fair, it’s pretty hard to pull the trigger on trading one of the top 10 players in the NBA. They were in a similar situation as Cleveland, as they had to pull out all the stops to build around Bosh, but they’ve had much less success than the Cavs. I think he’s the most likely to leave. Toronto’s a nice city, but it’s gotta be hard for a native Texan to play for a team in Canada.
But anyways, my point is, you can’t just assume that any one of these guys is staying put. There’s clearly some chance that they leave.
Brad Miller is god.
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