Bulls 98, Rockets 88: If there's a Rose there's a way
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 22, 2010 10:47 PM CDT
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Print| Pace | Eff | eFG | FT/FG | OREB% | TOr | |
| Houston | 95.0 | 92.6 | 37.6% | 23.6 | 22.0 | 12.6 |
| Chicago | 103.2 | 51.9% | 21.8 | 33.3 | 18.9 |
Again, 'huge win' is redundant at this late and desperate point of the Bulls season, but this looked schedule-wise like one the Bulls couldn't let get away. And it would've been an even bigger shame to waste great scoring nights from Kirk Hinrich (4-4 from three!) and Flip Murray. With Deng still out, the Bulls won't rely on James Johnson as much (rightfully so tonight, while he did some some good things he was fouling too much) as they will on 3-guard lineups featuring those two. It isn't a pretty option, but it's really all they can do, and what really hurts is not that it forces Flip Murray in as the backup SF, but that Jannero Pargo gets more time as a cascading result. Man is he awful.
Taj Gibson did a great job on the boards tonight and I was impressed by his perimeter defense when the Rockets tried to go small. The Rockets, even when they had Carl Landry, aren't a very big team and are completely devoid of shotblockers. So their method of defense is standing still and flopping, an unnerving tactic even when it was effective for the Malik Allens and Othella Harringtons of the Skiles days. And it was made much worse by the refs calling identical block/charge situations inconsistently for the two teams, with the Bulls getting the short end of it.
It was so bad (and I really don't think the refs are usually a big game story, but tonight they were) that Vinny Del Negro was ejected for the first time in his soon-to-be-over coaching career. Must've been on his bucket list. I'm still not sure why VDN got the second technical, he was certainly way out on the court after a block/charge call went against the Bulls, but was back on the bench by the time the second one was made. My Dad - our last game at the UC this season, and before the Bosh era! - imparted on me his theory: "because Bob Delaney is an asshole". Works for me, as (obviously) VDN isn't usually going after the officials.
(The head coaching debut of Bernie Bickerstaff was dead on arrival as his first move was to bring in Pargo.)
But VDN did the job in getting the refs to even out the calls (causation if I say so), and Derrick Rose took over the rest. The difference in having no offense and no superstar with having no offense with a superstar is such a relative relief. Just knowing that when all else fails Rose can get anywhere he wants (either to the rim to finish or kicking out to Hinrich for a huge 3-pointer). Rose was even shooting threes himself, attempting 7 (hitting 2) making it 13 attempts in his two games back from injury. That's an interesting development to observe going forward. He even turned in a good night defensively, as outside of some late three-pointers Aaron Brooks did nothing. (Hinrich overcame a rough start on that to sufficiently slow down Brooks' backcourt mate Kevin Martin to 19 points.)
And Rose's finish shows once again the importance of playing meaningful games. Does it mean we as fans should be satisfied with the Org. putting out a team that needs to scrap for the right to be sacrificed to the altar of LeBron? No, but since that's a done deal at this point, I prefer Derrick Rose being in games that matter, and whether they ultimately matter in the big picture isn't relevant in the context of what the guys on the floor are preparing and playing for nightly.
The Raptors and Heat held serve tonight winning games of their own, but when Rose plays this well it seems that he can get the Bulls to the playoffs by himself. Getting Noah back completely (only comes in for 6-minute stints each half, but makes an impact) is a huge factor as well, and together they need to get the Bulls to take care of these next two home games so that the rest of the schedule can stay meaningful as well.
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The refs were awful tonight
But still happy to see the guys get the W. Rose was really hot in that second half making jumper after jumper and really just puting the Rockets away in a really bad game to watch. The next game against Miami is going to be huge as its a winnable one. Just hope we get a better performance from the refs on thursday.
That was the absolute
Worst refereed game I have seen in several years….just awful. The refs virtually gave the Rockets 7 pts there to end the 3rd quarter, starting with the clearly there Rose block 3 pt play, and then a charge the other way I think created by Ariza, who’s feet were also clearly (though not as clear as mud like the Rose call) on the line, and the outside official at a bad angle called that one, while the guy right there with the angle didn’t overrule it because he sucked.
It’s lucky we won despite the refs.
If there was a game there that seemed fixed in the post Donaghy era, yesterday’s seemed like the refs were trying to fix it for the Rockets….but the Bulls actually were really good last night…..
Of course it helps when 1) Taj had a Monster game with solid defense (not quite monster in the numbers, but he was a total difference maker and 2) HInrich/Flip hit their shots…..
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
I never seen a team that flops as much as Houston last night.
Seriously that team is full of bitches led by the head bitch Scola
by T.Moore on Mar 23, 2010 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
last time we played them
lowry flopped every time a damn screen was set on him and they called an offensive foul 3 times.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
Rose played 47 minutes, almost the entire game.
The Bulls really rode him to a win.
they couldve avoided this
by playing acie law, but i think ultimately they realized that they have a few days off and that rose could rest up….
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
the game was really slow with all the fouls
I never felt like Rose looked tired, he certainly played great defense on Brooks. JJ continues to impress me, it’s too bad he can’t catch a break with the officials.
Also I’ve been harsh on Gibson but tonight against what is a very bad Rockets front court he quietly dominated the glass. Good job Gibson.
Yeah
I really was a downer on JJ, but for the seemingly 10 minutes he played because of foul issues (that he caused to a degree and was helped by the Rockets taking the Nocioni defense decree up a notch—heavy Argentian floppings lead by the very good Scola….)
But I think if JJ keeps up a workout program in the offseason he could really get some serious PT and be very good for us next year….just needs to get in shape and stay in shape….he’s suddenly become comfortable out there….
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
This was the 4th game
that Derrick has played more than 45 minutes in. They have won all 4 of them.
by sue369 on Mar 23, 2010 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Man, if we didn't lose to New Jersey earlier this year and of course that Kings comeback . . .
Things would be a lot more interesting, man I hate digging in the past but those games are gonna kill us
Not to mention the home Denver game stolen by the officials.
We miss you, Tyrus Thomas and Ben Gordon!
by Granny Waiters on Mar 23, 2010 1:54 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Wrong.
Brad Miller took a jumpshot with .3 left on the game clock. Even if he got it off in time (he didn’t), the Trent Tucker rule says the refs ruled correctly.
NBA rulebook:
“NO LESS THAN :00.3 must expire on the game clock when a player secures possession of an inbounds pass and then attempts a field goal. If less than :00.3 expires in such a situation, the timer will be instructed to deduct AT LEAST :00.3 from the game clock. If less than :00.3 remain on the game clock when this situation occurs, the period is over, and the field goal attempt will be disallowed immediately whether successful or unsuccessful.”
LeBron James: Which of His Blessings would you deny?
by ProfessorEmmer on Mar 23, 2010 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions
If this is so, then why did they originally rule it good?
Why did the officials look at 78 different replays that were inconclusive, before finally finding one that showed the ball was still barely touching his fingertips (breaking every replay rule in the book while doing so)?
The ‘Trent Tucker’ rule is irrelevant, there were not LESS than .3 seconds left, there were exactly .3 seconds.
Yeah
I think you may want to re-read what you posted. The rule applies to attempts with LESS THAN .3 on the clock.
Doesn’t seem very moral to me. Might as well take Satan’s autograph while you’re at it. - N.C.
How long will Hill and Jeffries be out?
I hope they will be able to play against the Lakers.
by inquisitiveman on Mar 22, 2010 11:55 PM CDT reply actions
Those guys are garbage
they won’t be able to help, even if they were healthy
by QUINTEN DALEY on Mar 23, 2010 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions
i think he will and should, as it will allow him to save energy. with deng out and noah playing sub-20 minutes a night, derrick will have to log huge minutes down the stretch.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
I wonder if this was a plan they discussed during his absence
We’ve all talked about how this is a meaningless season and one of the only important things is Rose’s continued improvement. Without wanting to sound like I’m giving the org too much credit, perhaps this was something they’ve asked Rose to step up on.
The more 3 pointers he attempts, the more comfortable he’ll feel with the idea and the more teams will realize they can’t back off him. After all, it doesn’t really matter much if he doesn’t make any of them this year, whereas next year when we’re actually going all out with James/Wade/Bosh/Johnson/Lee/Mercer/Pargo it could make a difference to playoff seedings etc
Word is
that because Rose’s injury was to his non-shooting wrist that he spent most of his time being injured by endlessly practicing 3pt shooting. Should be interesting seeing how much he develops there next season, with the entire offseason to practice it.
I loved
That 3 he took after the foul call when the fans and myself included knew it wasn’t gonna count, but all of us were like wow….
I don’t get allt he ESPN’ers saying things like that he still can’t shoot, etc. The kid’s been phenomenal from the 15-18 ft range since the ankle healed up….and he really (Save for that Toronto game which still showed a flat arc on his shot) couldn’t shoot well last season and needed the quickness/leaping ability to score. Now he can hit the mid range game more consistently than “mr. mid-range” Luol Deng, and if he adds a 3 pter to that, wow.
I think that game yesterday was the best Derrick Rose game so far in his career. I know he had the opening round game 1 playoff game last year with more points, etc and I thought a near triple double for his first ever playoff game…..but yesterday’s game he had near those numbers with FAR better defense. He looked a better defender than Kirk last night, and Kirk’s D was on post the first qtr, he was disrupting plays left and right….
Derrick was fantastic yesterday.
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
Yeah, I saw that 3 make after the whistle too
I love that even during the season he’s adding wrinkles to his game and increasing his skillset. The usual adage is that Great players come in with something new to their game every year, and somehow he’s doing it during the season too. And he’s only 21! Imagine how good he’ll be when he’s at his peak around 28!
He likely
Will have one more year or two at most of big improvements in his game, then it’ll be minor, less stat oriented improvements from here on out….
But I can’t wait to see it happen.
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
You're probably right
but my guess is that even those “minor, less stat oriented” improvements will contribute just as much to winning games & playoff series (hopefully) as 3 point shooting.
Oh I know
I just wanted to point that out there since in the ESPN driven world it’s typically stats are king. I mean Lebron had better stats when he was what 21 vs 25 now, but he’s much better today than he was back then….
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
This is not true
Lebrons stats are much better now compared to when he was 21. He’s averaging fewer points, but that’s because he’s taking fewer shots, mainly because he’s playing fewer minutes since the cavs are a muh better team. But his ts%, trb%, ast%, stl% and blk% are all up, resulting in a higher PER.
Brad Miller is god.
by Poloplaya14 on Mar 23, 2010 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions
He hasn't made any sig jumps in stats
His pts are down….
His assists are up, which they’ll chalk to confidence in teammates b.s. when really it’s jut that he has some folks to pass to…
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
You're kidding right?
Is ts% is at a career high .606 up from .568 when he was 21. His ast% is 41.8 up from 32.8. His PER is at 31.6 up from 28.1. If these aren’t significant jumps what the hell are?
Brad Miller is god.
I said his assists are up
Which is due to him having more folks to pass to, his FGA are down also because he has more folks to pass to, and correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think a 28.1 PER and a 31.6 PER are that materially different. He’s now the #1 best statistical player in teh league when before he was #2.
His team is far better, that helps his assists. His team is much better, than helps his shooting as he can pick a few less times to attack.
His team is better period.
Good job for the Cavs.
I am saying and have said that he is much better overall today than he was then…..but much of what is better is his D positioning and decision making…..and much of that isn’t measured.
I mean Wade has dipped from a 30.4 PER toa 27.8 PER this season, I’m sure you’re not going to say Wade is worse than he was despite having another year and nipping at the classic prime….it’s that his team has been worse post the Marion trade—not materially worse but worse….and aren’t getting better (Beasley).
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
When guys stats
Get into the lofty upper 20’s low 30’s they’re great the stat jumps don’t tell as much as say a guy going from a 12 to an 18 PER would….
I mean Durant is avg’ing 27-7-3-0.8 at 21. By 26 he might be 30-7-4-1….or might be about the same (as he may have even more options or Green/Westbrook/Harden may take the next step (Westbrook’s already very very good)….
But I guarantee even if he’s still 27-7-3-1 that he’ll be better in 3-4 yeras than he is today as he’ll know more when to attack and should pick up D better.
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
His assists jumped 27.4% from what he'd been doing before
That’s not solely from the increase in talent. Part of it is he is simply a better passer. And I don’t buy the “more talent around him” argument, because his USG% is the same as it always was, meaning he’s just as ball-dominant as he always was. His total FGAs are down but his FGA/min is right on par with his career average. The difference is he’s playing fewer minutes. But his per-minute stats are simply much better than they used to be. Similarly, Wade’s per-minute stats are down compared to what they used to be. For whatever reason, Wade is not as good a player this year as he was last year, and James is a much better player this year than he was when he was 21, and the stats reflect that.
Your points about D positioning and decision making might also be correct, but that doesn’t change the fact that LeBron is also a statistically better player.
Brad Miller is god.
His assists are up
Because he can throw to
1) Mo Williams
2) now Antawn Jamison
3) pre Injury Shaq
4) a much better Varejao
I’d say that group (not even counting the rest which are stronger) is far better to pass to than
1) Larry UnLegend
2) Drew Gooden
3) Big Z (who was a lot more effective then)
4) a 2nd yr Varejao
The players around him are better equaling more open and made shots for those around him.
What’s really different about LBJ today vs his rookie year is his positioning on D and knowing when to be aggressive, etc….
he always had the vision he had, he always could score….his PER jump which was already likely top 3 in the league has improved moreso because his team is hitting more of those open looks.
Though perhaps you forgot what watching the un-legend was like, especially at his un-legend peak in Cleveland where he erally wans forcing everything (kind of like he did just before sitting down for good here)….
Mo Williams is only an all star because of Lebron, but he’s a solid BG esque streaky shooter with some handling ability. Varejao has a little O game in the Noah sense now, and had none then. Larry Hughes sucks monkey balls, and Drew Gooden has a great game every 5 games and 4 horrendous games in between (especially then, now he doesn’t seem to have many of the great games as he used to)…
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
Larry Hughes wasn't completely terrible back then.
Varejao doesn’t do much for them offensively, and Mo Williams is quite overrated (he’s not that much better than Jeff McInnis/Damon Jones and the other scrubs the Cavs used to have). Jamison’s an upgrade over Gooden, but Jamison is not an all-star anymore, by any means. And Shaq’s ghost is less effective than Ilgauskas from 4 years ago. I do believe that the increase in talent has played some role in LBJ’s increase in assists, but he’s also making better decisions with the ball, allowing him to set up other players with more frequency and score more efficiently. Another part of the equation is his improved post game, which has allowed him to score even more efficiently and draw even more double teams than he used to.
Brad Miller is god.
Larry Hughes was completely terrible back then.
Bosh or Bust
by JockstrapNoah on Mar 23, 2010 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions
His three years with the Cavs boasted FG% of
.409
.400
.377
Bosh or Bust
by JockstrapNoah on Mar 23, 2010 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Exactly
Varejao isn’t used often offensively but shoots a high FG% and is more often looking to score than he was then (which isn’t a lot, but as I said in the Noah realm).
You also forgot Shaq, who while isn’t what he was in LA or Orlando or early Miami, still can demand a double team or two and is still a beast near the rim that the only way to stop is to foul….
And you forgot Jamison, etc.
Mo Williams is a streaky shooter, but one who can shoot and is far more disciplined than Hughes.
Hell they traded Hughes and young Gooden expiring 1 yr earlier too for the craptacular 2 yrs ago Ben Wallace….need we say more.
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
Oh I see
Sorry I missed that you mentioned Jamison as I was jumping around a bit.
Jamison was playing All Star quality ball the past several years in Washington….the only reason he wasn’t an all star is because his team was a mess….
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
What does "minor, less stat oriented improvements" mean?
Better weight training? New diet? Seems like anything he does to get better will have an impact on his numbers.
by Ozzie Montana on Mar 23, 2010 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions
More experience
knowing when to take over vs when to let the game play out. Knowing when to really try to facilitate teammates. Better shot selection, better patience, etc. These things can only come with experience, and will likely take a while to develop as it usually does. Jordan’s stats didn’t get any better when the Bulls started winning titles (in fact, they decreased a little), but he was a better player.
People are saying similar things about LeBron this year – and John Hollinger may disagree, but not everything is reducible to statistics. There’s more going on than shows up in the stat sheet.
Better
D positiioning, disrupting shots, better court vision, control of game, etc.
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
Damn, we really handed Milwaukee a playoff spot.
Maybe the Bulls should have used their trademark dishonesty and led Salmons to believe he would have gotten an extension.
the new CBA should stipulate that salmons is automatically traded to a random team every 3 months. best thing that could happen to his career, and it would add a fun wrinkle to the nba season.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
by TheMoon on Mar 23, 2010 12:38 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
True, throw in Q-Rich and Eddie House in that mix as well.
First one to play for all 30 teams gets a pizza party.
by Ozzie Montana on Mar 23, 2010 12:40 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
And I am happy to see Milwaukee with a good team. Hawks-Bucks is going to be a great series that no one will watch.
by Ozzie Montana on Mar 23, 2010 12:41 AM CDT up reply actions
How would he do that?
The kid can’t shoot and hasn’t figured out how to get past the game planning D that they started in maybe late Nov after that 55 pt game.
It’s Bogut who’s really carrying the Bucks. Bogut used to have a big game here or there against the Minnesota’s or prior year Grizzlies teams but seemed to be a complete non factor whenever a good, post Big played against him. Now he’s totally tuned that corner this year (it helps too that he’s finally healthy)….
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
Seriously, fuck Jennings.
Bogut and Ilyasova are incredibly badass and get zero credit.
by Ozzie Montana on Mar 23, 2010 8:19 AM CDT up reply actions
Good call.
And Ilyasova’s success bodes well for the Bulls’ future backup center. Asik and Ersyan were the best players on that Turkish team.
As for Bogut, he really deserves to be an allstar.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
I still can't believe some people on this blog said that Jennings was better than Rose
Maybe they were drunk on that day
Jannero Pargo = Larry Hughes 2.0
To be fair
While I never went that far, in November Jennings looked absolutely incredible, especially since it was hist first 3 weeks….
I knew he didn’t have the size against Derrick or many PG’s to defend, but he looked great for a time….but since he’s been far outclassed by Evans, Curry, Collison, Thornton and others….
Had Taj not had the flare ups of p.f. he too would be int that mix.
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
That 55 point game agains GSW made people think he was better than he actually is
Rose is on his way to be the better PG of the league. If that 3 pointer he’s developing keeps falling, he will become unstoppable
Jannero Pargo = Larry Hughes 2.0
Jennings
Was playing fantastically before that 55 pt game too though….that was the icing on the cake.
It’s just that the 55 pt game forced coaches to game plan around him, they have and he’s 4 months on still not figured it out.
But man Jennings was a beast the first month of the year….his scoring is still pretty high mostly because he was like 26-27 pts avg the first month
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
Salmons
Too is tearing it up….
They are quietly very dangerous….
I’m going to the Bucks game on Friday for front row center seats against the Heat….I bought them before the deadline really more as an excuse then to meet up with a college buddy and see former Marquett-er D. Wade, since the Bucks were slipping by then and seemed done….but now, wow, that’ll be a fun game.
Too bad I haven’t made it to a Bulls game this year….next year I will. I was close to buying a tick locally (I have more time around now and work was crazy busy here until 2 weeks ago) and then we hit the slide with all the injuries….
Yesterday’s game though was fantastic. If we don’t make the playoffs but play as hard as we did yesterday and against the Cavs, I’ll still be happy with the progress….given the injuries and the fact that this year was more a ploy for next year.
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
When healthy
I’d agree….I think we need Deng, or need JJ to play without fouling and looking like a rookie for an entire game….
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
celts-bucks, bobcats-hawks
i’d like that
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Yes
I think those would be two good series.
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
Nice to see the Bulls go back to what they do best
Defense + domination by Rose.
Brad Miller is god.
Nice win! Still don't get Pargo over Law.
Even Bill Wennington mentioned on the radio that he didn’t understand Pargo over Law. But Bill can say stuff now because he might be on his way out to St. Johns.
Luol Deng 24 going on 54.
Save money...
If Acie Law doesn’t get to showcase his abilities, he may be easier and cheaper to sign in the offseason.
by South Jersey Wedding Photographer on Mar 23, 2010 1:56 AM CDT up reply actions
...
While I might (might) accept that this is the utterly stupid rationale that VDN/Pax/Gar have chosen for playing, you know, an awful player who should be back in Moscow over a player who actually might be something someday, what I cannot abide is you throwing this out there as if it makes sense. You think Law is really gonna play so well he’ll turn his nose up at the veteran’s minimum? He’ll be getting about 8 minutes a night. Is he such a crucial part of our team’s future strategy that we’d rather have The Amityville Horror out there chucking up threes than have him developing, with our sole motivation being to drive down costs (which, again, it won’t succeed in doing)?
I’m sorry if this was sarcastic and I overreacted, but if it wasn’t sarcastic… I think you maybe should head over to Bulls by the Horns.
Will everyone stop hating on Deng, please?
ridiculous.
not only is it ridiculous, but it implies that the Org. is telling VDN who to play. We know they don’t get that involved, not even with Jim B@*%^&
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 23, 2010 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions
Maybe
They want to bury Law to resign him on the cheap?
Seems too conspiracy theoried, but I really don’t get it…..I mean I could see the argument of Law-Rose being small, but heck Pargo’s small….
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
um, that's exactly what our spammy friend was saying
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 23, 2010 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions
I swear, just seeing Pargo on the court
makes me angry – and that’s even before the ball is inbounded!
When I see him, it makes me want to shut down the computer
I will never forget that game against Memphis. Fuck Pargo!
Jannero Pargo = Larry Hughes 2.0
I was pissed yesterday
When Bickerstaff threw Pargo back out there int eh 4th….
We lucked out there.
I typically am ok with Pargo if he’s used as the every 2-3 game 10 minute let’s get him out there for his aggressiveness and see if his streakiness will help us….but he’s not a regular rotation guy with the club we have—esp with us lacking Noah’s rebounds…..
Thankfully he didn’t kill us.
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
Vinny booted and the Bulls win hmm...
I’m sure there is nothing to it ;-)
Actually the team looked very impressive tonight. Handled the Rockets easily – although the Rockets shot horribly – most notably in the 3rd quarter. A win is a win though, so the Bulls will take it and focus on the next game.
by South Jersey Wedding Photographer on Mar 23, 2010 1:54 AM CDT reply actions
Rose finds a way
Rose finds a way to win. If we get a good free agent Rose will find a way to make it work. If God-willing we are able to get Wade Rose will find a way to make it work, despite what appears to be overlap in skills. I really do not understand Pargo over Law. Pargo is truly a game killer. What is it that VDN/coaching staff sees in him? He has hurt this team all year. I mentioned this before but he is the best practice shooter I have seen. In a game I was at he hit 30 consecutive shots in practice. 20 were 3s. First shot in the game, open from 12 feet out he bricks. His defense looks superficially good but he is constantly knocked off by screens and loses his man. He absolutely stinks. Thursday against Miami should be interesting.
One other development that deserves special attention:
that was the best defensive game I’ve ever seen Derrick play. He smothered Brooks, one of the quickest points in the game. He was fighting through screens, cutting off drives, contesting.
If Derrick can improve defensively – and this was really the first sign that he could actually be pretty good – and gains confidence in that standstill three of his, he’ll be a top-5 player. I didn’t think that would be the case, but jeez. His passing was terrific last night.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
Agree - this makes me want a free agent here even more
The way Rose is developing every free agent we get, except possibly Wade and I not sure Wade in the future will be better than Rose, Rose will be the man on this team. If Rose’s 3 point shot and defense continue to improve he definitely will be a top five player in this league. With Rose’s development we have a strong case to make to persude a free agent to come here. I just hope it happens.
If Rose becomes a lock-down defender
can start hitting the 3 consistently and can raise his assist totals by having teammates actually hit shots, he’ll probably be in the running for MVP for a few seasons during his peak. Good for us Bulls fans that he still has about 5 years of improving to do before he reaches that point, because DAMN he’s so good already!
thats a LOT of "ifs",
most players of his offensive talent don’t give a rats ass about improving their defense.
2010 WhiteSox Baseball: "even if it works it's still stupid"
there usually are a lot of "ifs"
surounding 21 year old players, especially point guards
Doesn’t seem very moral to me. Might as well take Satan’s autograph while you’re at it. - N.C.
Of COURSE there are a lot of if's
There’s what? Like 3 or 5 players that are legitimately in the running for MVP every year? Sometimes less than that?
Rose is already a top 15 player in the NBA, but getting into the top 5 will take major strides in his game. I’m confident he’ll do it over the next few years – he seems to have an MVP’s mentality – but it’s far from given.
Top 15 when he plays like this.
He played a quarter of the year like an average player.
by Ozzie Montana on Mar 23, 2010 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions
Hurt.
When Chris Paul was hobbled he looked dreadful. But I don’t judge him according to that.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
I'm just making the distinction.
We judge other players when they aren’t 100%.
by Ozzie Montana on Mar 23, 2010 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions
It's a valid distinction.
I’m just trying to predict Derrick’s career arc, so I’m not looking at his low points. I’m assuming a healthy, motivated Derrick because without a healthy, motivated Derrick, the org is screwed, and any discussion is moot.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
Like who?
I think most players make their name and reputation when they’re playing their best. Unless, of course, they’re injury-prone and they get known for that.
It's not like Rose's play after he got healthy
has been an aberration – he’s been pretty much playing at this level since Christmas.
It doesn't matter who, you evaluate players based on a full body of work.
It’s not a knock on Rose.
by Ozzie Montana on Mar 23, 2010 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions
I agree with that
but you gotta allow players to overcome injuries and not hold that against them. It’d be different if Rose were healthy and had the physical/athletic aspect to his game at 100% when during that first 1/4 of the season, but clearly that wasn’t the case. Whenever he’s been healthy, he’s been a game-changer and franchise player, and that’s what you evalulate.
Now if he were having injuries in a chronic manner, then yes, I totally agree that need to count that part because it’s an aspect of the player’s makeup. But so far, based on Rose’s high school, college and pro careers, there’s nothing to suggest that.
I think he's top 10
When he plays like he has the last 2 games already with room to grow.
it’s hard to crack the top 5…..but if he can hit the 3 shot consistentnly, he’s there with or without the defensive improvement….
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
Yup.
The only point I’m trying to make is that, these last two games, he’s shown the talent to get to that elite level. The passing, three point shooting, and defense…he’s showing abilities I didn’t know he had.
I always figured Derrick could be a top 15 player. But he’s got more upside than that. Which rocks.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
His assists
Should go up when we have some post O play which we really haven’t had even in the Hinrich tenure.
Man….I remember all the David West trade talk….sigh….West has been a monster of late.
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
I've got to take issue with this:
With Deng still out, the Bulls won’t rely on James Johnson as much (rightfully so tonight, while he did some some good things he was fouling too much) as they will on 3-guard lineups featuring those two. It isn’t a pretty option, but it’s really all they can do, and what really hurts is not that it forces Flip Murray in as the backup SF, but that Jannero Pargo gets more time as a cascading result. Man is he awful.
Ahem… didn’t we trade for Hakim Warrick last month?
If you add up our 96 PF/C minutes, you get
Noah 12
Miller 36
Gibson 33
Total 81. Remainder – 15.
Hakim Warrick played 15 minutes. No reason he couldn’t play another 10-15 and have a legitimately sized lineup.
Why not give
- Warrick 10 more minutes
- Law 20 more minutes
- Flip 15 less minutes
- Pargo 15 less minutes
Add it up, and it’d be a pretty significant swing in favor of big, athletic players and away from undersized 3 guard chucking lineups.
by Sports2 on Mar 23, 2010 8:37 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Said this exact thing in the thread last night.
In complete agreement.
This organization has a weird Jannero Pargo fetish. From outbidding themselves for his services to playing him in front of a better player (Law) and better rotation (see above), we value this chucker from the West Side of Chicago more than any organization in its right mind should.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
He must have something against JR
There’s no other explanation for Pargo being in this roster
Jannero Pargo = Larry Hughes 2.0
I seem to remember
them outbidding themselves for another over-valued chucker a few years ago…they’re just weird like that
Thankfully...
Ben Gordon turned down those two offers.
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
by Dionysus2.0 on Mar 23, 2010 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
You should try and be funny and reply to posts that don't invalidate your joke.
Since Detroit outbid Chicago.
by Ozzie Montana on Mar 23, 2010 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions
It's
Really disappointing that Memphis never tried to develop Warrick as a SF….perhaps they tried, but I wasn’t watching Memphis. He just doesn’t have the frame to be an effective defender at the 4, but seems lost at the 3 since they play him at the 4.
he is nice on the O end though….and has freaky athleticism….
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
Oh yeah, that guy
he kindof stinks, which is an issue. Can he even guard SFs better than Flip? He would help in the rebounding department, but not much.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 23, 2010 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions
Warrick
Ain’t nearly as bad as you think…his O efficiency is fairly good and he’s active.
Put him around defenders and he’s a nice 7th man….
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
I don't want to surround Warrick with anything besides a bunch of Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Mar 23, 2010 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Come now
He’s a decent player, just not a starter. I wouldn’t mind bringing him back. He’s effective at what he does for a solid 20 MPG. He makes $3M….seems abotu right for his production.
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
right, and he played 15 last night
so I think he’s used pretty much what he should be. Don’t make me choose between he and Flip Murray, we’re all losers in that debate.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 23, 2010 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Sad but true
But I’d take Warrick.
I’d like to bring him back, he knows his role and can do well in that role wtih the right players (which another star = right players regardless of fit).
He’s solid on the O end.
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
I'll take Warrick next year just because I'm seduced by his dunks.
If the price is right, he’s fine for a 7th/8th man. His career stats show you he’ll give you 10-12 points if you give him 20-25 minutes. This isn’t to say there aren’t a big handful of guys in the league who do the same, and it’s not to say that his defense and rebounding shouldn’t be better.
But those dunks, man…they always seem to come out of nowhere. Long stride, quick first step. Maybe I’m being decadent here, but think in terms of identity: if we landed Bosh, LeBron, Amare, or Wade…and maybe Shannon Brown comes our way somehow…we could be known as the-team-that-will-dunk-on-your- ass-at-any-given-time. Who doesn’t want that?
hard pail lunch hat
i really dont like him anymore. but he has a number of dunks in the past few
weeks where i say, “but he wasnt even close enough to the rim to dunk that!” i swear he has Inspector Gadget arms or something.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
I know dunks are only worth 2 points but...
I think Warrick is the kind of guy who you don’t fret over if he’s on a winning team…sort of like icing on the cake. If your down by 20, then a monster dunk is kind of sad and futile, but if you’re up by 8 and get one of those out-of-nowhere slams, then it can potentially signal a big momentum shift. If he’s not gonna cost big bucks to re-sign, I think he’s worth keeping just for the swag-factor.
hard pail lunch hat
I'm against resigning him
Assuming we sign a PF to a max contract, we’ll have that player plus Taj Gibson at the 4. JJ will also be around to play some minutes there as well. We have more pertinent needs. I’d prefer our remaining cap space to be used on an outside shooter or a backup center
Brad Miller is god.
interesting point, but i dont think warrick can play the 3
as i said when we traded for him, the guy is athletic but he doesnt use it on the basketball court. he’s a miserable defender, a pretty pedestrian rebounder, doesn’t get blocks or steals, and has a pathetic handle. basically, he isnt good, and unless his offense is particularly on in a game, i dont see any reason he should get more than 15-20 minutes a night. as much as i dont think flip is good, at least he can attempt to stay in front of his man and might throw in the occasional 3. warrick cant do that.
http://ExtendtheGame.blogspot.com
Perhaps, but I think his miserable defense is as least partially due to playing the 4
More is usually expected of your bigs on defense. They have to know, moreso than your perimeter guys, when to go and help, when to man up, and when to break for rebounds. Your wings obviously have to know this too, but a little bit less so. Since they’re generally further away from the basket, their job is more often to simply stay in front of their guy.
Not always, of course, and they still have to switch, fight through screens, crash the boards, and so forth, but as a general rule, a bigger percentage of their defensive responsibility is manning up on their guy.
I tend to think that if you took away some of the complicated stuff from Hakim’s plate, we’d get a better result.
yea thats a good point about knowing where to be, when to help, etc.
if you just stick warrick on someone and say “chase him around, stay in front of him,” maybe he’d be better.
http://ExtendtheGame.blogspot.com
According to Sam Smith, Deng still hopes to play this season
Luol Deng remained out, but said he plans to be back the last week or 10 days
Jannero Pargo = Larry Hughes 2.0
We should find ways to help Pargo get himself thrown out of games
It’s the only shot we have to see him not play.
12/31/08: Fire Vinny Del Negro.(upd: 1/7/10)
by NBA Observer on Mar 23, 2010 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions
Without Deng, and with Vinny not wanting to play Law, I only see one way: if he gets injured
Jannero Pargo = Larry Hughes 2.0
If, if, if .....
If we can sneak into the 8th seed; if Deng returns rested and with energy, if Rose continues to improve, if Noah regains his monster presence he had when he was healthy then I feel we could win some games against the Cavaliers. Deng has played James well this year. I don’t believe we win the series but I think we can put a bit of a scare into them.
the cavs??
if we won 1 game id be stunned. this is why while id like to see us make the playoffs, i wont be heartbroken if we dont. playing the cavs or magic in round 1 ensures that we will get absolutely thrashed.
http://ExtendtheGame.blogspot.com
We won't get absolutely thrashed.
If that means four straight blow outs.
Bosh or Bust
by JockstrapNoah on Mar 23, 2010 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions
looks like two assholes to me.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 23, 2010 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions
I have eternal love for MJ (see my avatar)
but he is an asshole! In fact, if he weren’t an asshole, he might not have been the GOAT.
I have avatars
turned off, but I take your word for it.
I think he CHOSE to be an asshole at times, asshole-ish if you will…as opposed to just being a straight out asshole because he couldn’t help it. A little different maybe?
by NormVanBeer on Mar 23, 2010 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Two different teams.
When Rose is on the floor this team is a playoff team, when he is injured and not playing they are a team that can’t win jack (blame it on the players or the coaches, or both), sad but true. The only thing I want to see the rest of this season is a little effort and a healthy Rose. If both of those things happen, maybe this team has a shot at the playoffs.
As for next season, PLEASE, PLEASE get ONE other player that can help Rose, if the team gets someone like Joe Johnson, D-Wade, Bosh, Stoudemire (maybe), or Boozer this team could be a legit threat in the east in a year or two. Please get it done.
Blame
That on the GM.
They lost 4-5 games in a row with Rose there too….
We have no depth to recover when a top 3 goes down. Hell we played like crap when Hinrich and TyT went down early in the year too.
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
True.
You are right the GM is PART of the problem. My only point is when D-Rose is on the floor I feel the team has a shot at winning any game, when he is injured I really don’t think THIS team has a shot in EVERY game.
Rose, Deng and Noah are not a great “big three” , if next year the team adds a nice free agent to team with Rose and Noah, then and only then will this team be a legit threat again in the east (oh, and if they can stay healthy).
Exactly
And exactly on the Rose-Deng-Noah not a great big three….they’re more like
Rose is a good #1 and a fantastically great #2 at this stage in his career with potential to be a great #1…., Deng and Noah are nice to have #3’s, Noah for energy and hustle and Deng for consistency (when he plays)….
Given Deng’s injury rep, he’s looking more like a worse version of post injury AK47 on the books for longer than Kirilenko (though for a bit less money at least)….
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
Depends on the team I gues
If the #1 and #2 is Kobe-Pau, then Noah is fantasic
If the #1 and #2 is Wade-James, ditto.
If the #1 is Bogut-Jennings…maybe not as Great.
I love Noah though and agree on that sentiment.
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
I was assuming that
Rose would be #1/#2, and the other one of the “hypothetical big 3” would be a SG, SF or PF.
He’s a guy that controls the defensive paint and you never have to run plays for him, yet he’ll still average double figures.
Good win
But why pull JJ with 4 fouls if you’re not going to put him back in? He was playing really well in the 3rd and is learning to run the floor for Rose. His size makes the Warrick at 3 talk somewhat moot.
Also, don’t save Noah for the last 6 minutes of the half. It takes him a couple minutes to get in rythm, and you don’t want him shooting free throws to protect a lead. Start the half with him. It’s what the team is used to, Miller won’t be so gassed at the end of the game, and you can gradually expand his minutes.
Finally, if VDN grittily leads this under-manned, injured, gritty bunch to the playoffs, doesn’t it make it really hard to fire him?
by El Toro de Goro on Mar 23, 2010 2:27 PM CDT reply actions
The Warrick at 3 talk
is because its JJ and Flip Murray right now playing the three. The Warrick debate is about Warrick taking Flip Murray’s minutes not JJs. I think JJ should play heavy minutes though if he doesn’t have foul trouble (which he will, he’s a fouling machine).
Bosh or Bust
by JockstrapNoah on Mar 23, 2010 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions
No
It’s warrick taking Murray minutes at the 3 allowing Murray to take pargo’s minutes at the 2.
Brad Miller is god.
Since when Is Derrick "the red blur" Rose. Not afraid to take threes?!?!
no disrespect and both are awesome players but fuck Chris Paul (who should have won that MVP award over Kobe 3 years back) and D Will. Rose can be a better player than both of them. Although I think CP3 will be a better traditional PG than Rose. But still 2 years he will be a top 3 player maybe even next year.
Not sure about top 3
I think his ceiling is around Melo level, which is fine for me. Not sure he’s going to up there with Kobe, James or Durant though.
If he gets to Melo’s level and if we get one of the top FAs then we have a far better supporting cast here than Melo has and have a legit shot at the title for the next 5-10 years.
Of course, those are pretty big "if"s…
Love the Brad Miller link from the caption lol
Your father is absolutely right about Bob Delaney being an asshole. That was a horrible officiating job last night and it made the game a bit hard to watch at points. It’s about time VDN stood up for his players. That’s something you normally see coaches do when there are horrible calls against their teams and it might have actually helped to even out the calls a little bit as you mentioned.
We have a chance to make a little run here but Pargo should not be on the floor and especially not in a 3 guard lineup. If he is used, it should only be playing off the ball, not bringing it up himself to jack up a shot and only in catch and shoot situations. Those are the best shots for him. Anything where he is trying to create for himself of the dribble is a total disaster.
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
Barkley and Kenny the Jet
are going to rip Pargo apart on Thursday. It will be cringe worthy.
Bosh or Bust
by JockstrapNoah on Mar 23, 2010 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions
If Pargo never saw another minute of PT, I'd friggin celebrate
I mean, really, someone PLEASE explain why they don’t have Law ahead of Pargo on the PG depth chart. I must be missing something about Law. Vinny can’t be that stupid, can he?
Apparently he is
and so is Bernie Bickerstaff. I couldn’t believe that was the first move he made once Vinny was kicked out. Maybe Bernie is the reason Pargo plays so much.
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
by bigballa10 on Mar 23, 2010 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
see, I always thought Delaney was kindof cool
because of his past. Though I guess that could make him an even bigger asshole.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 23, 2010 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Right
I think his past has made him an even bigger asshole for sure. Before all that he was just a state cop here in New Jersey. Every time I see him make horrible calls I think he’s still dealing with the mob.
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
Imagine when Drose plays with a 2 and a 3 that can actually run and play?
Remember when after the trade, how much faster flip was getting onto the wings than Fish or Kirk? And Now several plays, we see JJ get down the the court and Drose pushes it up and advances the ball be PASSING it to a player that can get to the rim.
ROSE
FLIP
JJ
GIBSON
NOAH
Should be the starters: Have Hakim, Kirk, and Brad take on the opposing bench.
"Michael Redd's owed 18.3 million next year. He can either opt out like an idiot or opt in like a douche bag." - NittanyCub
Deng
Seemed to finally be running well with Derrick, and was actually realizing he can be great on the break if he’s aggressive there, but then he remembered he’s a ninny first.
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
A bit
But I still think he is slow on getting out there, both on when to breakout (looks like Noah has the board, it takes him a sec or 2 to “change ends”) and on footspeed.
And we all know that a “Deng Fastbreak” has a good chance of imploding.
JJ, now that the speed of the game has finally slowed down a bit for him, has a real nice open court game.
"Michael Redd's owed 18.3 million next year. He can either opt out like an idiot or opt in like a douche bag." - NittanyCub
The "Deng Fastbreak"
is fine. When he’s not injured he was finishing on the break as well as anybody. And this ninny stuff is ridiculous, this year he’s been taking it to the rim on the fast breaks. I’m sorry his dunks aren’t more spectacular like Hakim Warrick or James Johnson. If he comes back in time for the playoffs (I’m praying) it will makes this team very good now that James Johnson has some seasoning. LeBron James will have to deal with two above average defenders and 12 fouls at SF.
Bosh or Bust
by JockstrapNoah on Mar 23, 2010 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions
im kind of excited for that matchup too-- if it happens. i think the overwhelmingly
probable scenario involves lebron dropping a hydrogen bomb on those two while bulls fans drive around the city collecting their scattered limbs, but you dont have that many teams with a SF platoon of the right size/length/athleticism/intelligence to make lebron work really hard for his points.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
Sorry but Deng on the break is not fine
Esp. when he has the ball. And he refuses to pass on the break, and takes the wrong angle to the basket.
Its not about finishing. Anyone can finish at the end. Its stopping a 4 on 3, which should lead to a layin. And now we have to play half court more than we should or want to.
Or charging.
"Michael Redd's owed 18.3 million next year. He can either opt out like an idiot or opt in like a douche bag." - NittanyCub
Congratulations
You’ve managed to make one of the weakest shooting teams in the NBA even worse at shooting.
Brad Miller is god.
by Poloplaya14 on Mar 23, 2010 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
that won't be a good starting lineup
Deng is better than JJ, But JJ will be something in this league
this is the best
I could find – http://www.nba.com/games/20100322/HOUCHI/gameinfo.html
go to around the 1:30 mark
he never protests derricks no call drives.
he goes nuts for taj’s def. 3 sec. and this charge. or acie law not getting a call. or kirk handchecking a guy. but not for rose. its weird.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
that's actually Sam Smith you're hearing
after the Taj def. 3 secs.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 23, 2010 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
That charge
Came right after a terrible block call that Vinny was pissed about, the next play was icing on the cake.
7/1/2010: D. Wade comes back home
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