Cavs 92, Bulls 85. Fire Vinny
by Sports2 on Mar 19, 2010 11:37 PM CDT
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PrintHere's the thing. I've generally defended Vinny more than most, because if you look at things on paper, the team's record is about what I figure it should be given its talent and spate of injuries. That's pretty much true last year too.
But sometimes numbers just don't tell the story, do they? Here, there's just so much inexplicably weird stuff going on that Vinny just bugs the hell out of me. Yes, the bulls hung tough, and even briefly took the lead in the 4th, but jeez
- Yes, I know it's minor, but Vinny, whose chain are you jerking when you play Joe Alexander for 24 seconds? Can I be pissed off for him? Can I be pissed off that I'm not in on whatever joke it is?
- And true to form, after averaging 20 points over the last two games, Acie Law IV got the Tyrus Thomas memorial "Don't Play Too Good or I'll Sit You Down" treatment. Only 10 minutes of solid Law action, in which he generated the only positive +/- of the night for the Bulls (trivial I know).
- Not that we needed to get to the basket tonight, when Flip, Pargo and Kurt were on such a hot streak (combined 13-44). Kurt did a nice job distributing though, doing that a little bit more than I'd seen over the past few games, when Pargo inexplicably had the ball in his hands a lot.
There are brighter sides though. The Raptors got their butts kicked again, and our rookies had strong performances again. The Raptors status is looking important, but they're still two wins ahead of us and hold the series tie-breaker. Maybe it's time to start scouting the draft. If you were watching tonight, potential mid-round prospect James Anderson got bounced from the tournament and looked pretty meh to me.
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DID NOT
Trade Kirk: CHECK
Fire Vinny: CHECK
Equals Disaster: CHECK
Chris Bosh-Chicago Bull
by Juan dela Cruz on Mar 19, 2010 11:51 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I AGREE/ PROBLEM SOLVED
If i was a member of bulls management first i wouldn’t have hire a coach with no coaching experience to coach young players, they need a veteran coach or a coach to is a proven winner, so fire the bum already and while your at it make sure he takes his favorite son with him too (kirk). No player is going to want to play for the bulls with vinny as coach, so i say fire him at the end of the season and hire bryon scott before someone else does.
5 games in the win column away from catching the Clippers..
and the #10 pick, which they’d keep. Just sayin’, if I was management….. I know it’s cynical, and kind of consparicyish, but…
by DisCUBbobulated on Mar 19, 2010 11:54 PM CDT reply actions
Sports2 You probably know I've never been a fan of Vinny's. He's my 2nd least favorite coach as Jim Bo&*an will always get the boob(y) prize in my book.
but you’re being unfair in criticizing his giving Alexander only 24 seconds of pt. Joe entered the game with 37 seconds left in the first quarter. Granted he did get a steal off LeBron 7 seconds later but after that initial swipe, what else did he show that would have led to Vinny rewarding him with more floor time. In the remaining seconds he was still on the court he was 0 for 0 from the field, had no free throw attempts and failed to record a single assist, rebound or even a personal foul which would at least indicate he was exerting energy in those wasted seconds.
Remember Vinny always emphasizes you have to earn your minutes which is why Acie took over Tyrus Thomas’s spot on the bench after a dismal showing tonight. In his last 2 games he has scored 26 points and recorded 5 assists which may sound ok until you dig deeper and realize it took him 10 shots (which included three 3 pointers) and almost 31 minutes to get those rather flaccid numbers. Yes he was the only Bull to have positive plus/minus of +3….big whoopie.
On the other hand Acie demonstrated why he was rewarded with 28 minutes even though he was a minus 15 because he showed no hestitation in firing up the rock when the openings were there by racking up Pargo like stats with 17 attempts. Until he hit a clutch 3 as the game ended thus bringing the margin of loss to a respectible single digit spread of 7 he was 4 for 16, just slightly less accurate than Captain Kirk’s 5 of 18. He also managed an assist after being in the game for only 3 minutes. It was his only assist of the night but Acie had only 2 in his 10 minute stint, while the Captain didn’t leave too many opportunites for Murray since he had 8. Pargo went into a shell tonight by taking only 9 shots in spite of having a hot hand (for him) by converting 3.
My kudos also go out to our 2 backup centers who have had the unenviable position of having to fill the big shoes of Joakim Noah. Brad’s one field goal kept them from getting a goose egg during their shared 45 minutes of action. I’m surprised coach let Taj play for 38 minutes with his ball hogging 14 shot attempts. Although he did score 20 points, Taj should have learned a lesson that Tyrus never did which is why he had to be shipped out. In Del Negro’s system, power forwards are only supposed to rebound and set screens. Under no circumstances other than on putbacks should they ever shoot. I have a sneaking suspicion when Vinny reviews the tapes, Mr. Gibson is going to find himself watching Hakim from the bench, as he should be for his selfish play.
Lets also give credit to our defensive guru as the Bulls held the high flying Cavs to only 92 points, thus ending the longest streak of giving up more than 100 points per game in the last 21 years. Good job guys, and great coaching Vinny. I think you’re finally getting through to them with your constant repititions of your top 10 basketball cliches. These close games may have been just what you needed to insure your return to lead them next year. It worked for Lovie in the closing games of the Bears season…so congrats Piasano, there may be no hair today, gone tomorrow for you, so breathe easier and stop pacing the sidelines all night like a hungry lion. Relax, you’ve earned some R and R by showing the team how to reach for excellence in the face of adversity. The Sixer’s better beware because Vinny’s Bulls are starting to show their horns and breathing fire eating red.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Mar 20, 2010 12:54 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I should have proofread my post. the 2nd paragraph should have said Flip not Acie
was rewarded with 28 minutes. I want to be sure to give credit where credit is due. Sorry Flip, I didn’t mean to diss you, especially after how you lit it up tonight with your heady play.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Mar 20, 2010 1:00 AM CDT up reply actions
10 min for Law tonight?
I know this sounds wierd to say about a guy that was considered to have nothing to offer coming in, and didnt get tick anywhere else he was but what the fuck thats unacceptable. We are talking about him or PARGO and Law has played well since D’s departure, and Pargo, well enough said.
To answer your question no, numbers lie. Ask the Luol Deng fan club.
If Hinrich or Murray could have just connect with the many wide open threes they had we might be talking about a Bulls win. The Cavs handed this one to the Bulls
Hinirch was 0-7
Murray was 2-7
Pargo was 0-2
= 14 misses three pointers. (Some of Hinirch’s where potentially game changing. )
But to your point about VDN, he completely embarrassed the city tonight.What was he over coaching LeBron? At one point when the game was sealed I watched him call out to LeBron to smooth things over after whatever that was he said to Lebron. But LeBron ignored him.
I thought he embarrassed Joe Alexander.
So after Acie Law’s strong showing he screws him over in favor of Pargo? I mean wtf! But Vinny is toast so I can’t waste my time on it.
JJ has impressed me. I love his ability to get in transition and do it himself. Thats what I wanna see out of a three. Thats why I feel like Johnson fits better with Derrick Rose. I feel like this guy can be a player. He’s pretty heady and I think if you have Law, JJ, Taj then you have a nice young bench. I just was happy with his defense on Lebron for most of the game. (Considering he’s a rookie) Given more time I think he’ll be productive.
I will say a positive thing about Kirk tonight and that is that I though he did a good job of slowing LeBron in transition. Just doing little things like cutting off angles.
I’m confused as to what I wanna see out of the Bulls. On one hand I feel like they can still make the playoffs and that would be against the Cavs. I think that would be very interesting. I would love to see the Bulls get healthy and make things harder for the Cavs and I think they kinda match up well with them. (besides you know who)
Cavs vs Bulls(healthy) would be fun.
you would think that after acie law played 2 strong games in a row
vdn would get him there to see what he has. At the very least, you show confidence in Law and try to milk his nice stretch of play. The worst thing that could happen is he reverts back to his previous career norms and you go back to playing the “vets.” But VDN does the opposite. He shows absolutely no faith in Law. Basically, VDN wrote off Law’s nice stretch of play as a fluke. I really don’t understand it. Its like VDN did this on purpose. Like Law somehow crossed him by not doing it VDN’s way. He did the exact same thing with Tyrus. And if Deng wasn’t hobbled JJ would get the same treatment. I wouldn’t be surprised if Gar or Pax haven’t told VDN to play JJ.
One of VDN supposed positive points was that he was good with young players. Is that really true? He jerked around Sefolosha (playing him the first 6 minutes of each half isn’t a legitimate rotation). He didn’t play Noah or Tyrus last year until injuries forced him to. He seems to have no idea how to utilize JJ. The big feather in his hat are Rose and Taj. But Taj is 24 years old. And Rose frankly could be better with better coaching or an actual offense to run. I can’t believe the Bulls hired this putz.
by Basketball Smurf on Mar 20, 2010 1:02 AM CDT reply actions 9 recs
I totally agree one million percent with your post BBall Smurf except I have no problem believing they hired this putz.
Since JR loves money more than he loves basketball, who else could he have hired that would work so cheaply? More mediocrity means more money in his pocket, thus DelDunceO logically followed NoBrainBoyl*n. I wouldn’t be shocked to find out Reinsdork would actually be releived if none of the max players decided to sign with the Bulls next year so he could keep his bottom line in the black.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Mar 20, 2010 1:11 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't agree
Law hasn’t proved to me that he’s worthy of that much more than 10 mpg. Yeah, he’s had a nice couple of games for us recently, but that production came largely during garbage-time minutes while the other team safely had in the bag. The numbers he put up in ATL over a much larger sample size indicate he’s nothing to get too excited about. The only argument in favor of giving Law more playing time is to give Pargo less. In response to that, I say we reduce Pargo’s minutes by giving more playing time to JJ and Warrick instead of seeing more of the 3-guard lineup. I would love to see Warrick getting time at the 3, where he could take advantage of his size and post some guys up, giving us some much-needed inside scoring. But Vinny insists on giving him only 14-18 mpg primarily at the 4, where he’s a less effective player.
Brad Miller is god.
a couple of points
…but that production came largely during garbage-time minutes while the other team safely had in the bag.
That simply isn’t true. Law did most of his work early in the Memphis game and than leading the comeback. Same with Dallas.
The numbers he put up in ATL over a much larger sample size indicate he’s nothing to get too excited about.
I said as much.
The only argument in favor of giving Law more playing time is to give Pargo less. In response to that, I say we reduce Pargo’s minutes by giving more playing time to JJ and Warrick instead of seeing more of the 3-guard lineup.
Pargo is the Bulls starting shooting/point guard right now. He, Murray and Hinrich played a combined total of 95 minutes tonight. They shot a combined 13-44, with Pargo leading the way at 3-9. If VDN can’t find 10 more minutes for a guy who is shooting over 50% in his last 5 games, I don’t know what to tell you. Especially when that guy comes in and puts up 6 points on 2 shots. I’m not even sure what you are disagreeing with.
JJ played 36 minutes. Warrick gave his usual 14 minutes of illusory defense. You think Warrick should get more minutes? okay. So should Law. Pargo shouldn’t get any minutes at all He has proven to be quite bad.
by Basketball Smurf on Mar 20, 2010 4:33 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Warrick isn't as bad a defender at the 3 as he is at the 4
I just would rather see fewer 3-guard lineups right now, regardless of who the guards are.
Brad Miller is god.
i'll agree with you there
i’ve never been a fan of the 3 guard line ups
by Basketball Smurf on Mar 20, 2010 8:30 PM CDT up reply actions
The only argument in favor of giving Law more playing time is to give Pargo less.
This is the most convincing argument in the history of mankind. I think Acie Law sucks and is milking opponents lack of film study, but Flip Murry and Pargo are straight trash. 25 shots from those two and 10 minutes from Law, who clearly gives opposing teams fits?
by Ozzie Montana on Mar 20, 2010 5:36 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
For the Bulls, "garbage time" starts soon after the game begins.
by KentuckyBullsFan on Mar 20, 2010 8:27 AM CDT up reply actions 8 recs
zing!
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Is any other argument really needed?
The only argument in favor of giving Law more playing time is to give Pargo less.
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
bad news
David Schuster: Added to insult and injury….The Bulls plane was delayed hours before taking off for Phily. They are a complete mess.
A CAPTION
right guard….ehhh…its better than no caption though….and thanks for the james anderson quick scouting report (hes “meh”) all in all, im glad i didnt even bother to think about this game….hinrich was good you say? oh but he was 0-7 from 3pt land…yea im quitting…..(i leave it vague so one wonders what ill be quitting, being a bulls fan? a hinrich fan? blogging? Its like the burn notice season 3 cliffhanger!)
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
It's a drama on TNT!
TNT knows drama!
I only know this because Aziz Ansari mentions it in his special!
Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!
Huh no...
its on usa…and its more cool than dramatic, like super cool, you should check it out (usa.com has the episodes for streaming) unlike other serialized shows like lost, burn notice doesnt require you to watch all the episodes to know whats going on, every episode is part of a bigger story, but also has a smaller story within itself, so you can enjoy every episode without caring for the bigger plot…but the bigger plot is really really cool, i reccomend it to all…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
google it
watch it…
i guarantee youll love it
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
You know what I was just thinking?
An Atlanta vs. Charlotte playoff series could be one of the more exciting 1st round match-ups of recent memory.*
*that includes good teams.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
I really don’t know why Pargo keeps playing after what he did against Memphis
The Bulls lost that game because of him but, instead of giving Pargo’s minutes to Acie Law, he cut Law playing time. If Law style of play is a little bit similar to Rose, why not move Hinrich to the SG position and give the PG position to Law? It’s just stupid and the others coaches are stupid too for not saying what is best for the team.
As for JJ, I think we are starting to see the things that made the Bulls select him at 16. He seems to have lost some weight and that made him better, showing some of the things that kept our attention in the pre-season. I still didn’t forget that game winner against Utah, in London (of course, I was the one who call it first) ;)
Jannero Pargo = Larry Hughes 2.0
Vinny cut Law's minutes because he's a huge fan of Beavis and Butthead
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhaB7wx96Fg (10-second clip)
“Breaking The Law! Breaking the Law!”
by KentuckyBullsFan on Mar 20, 2010 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions
CLUELESS
He needs to be fire because he doesn’t know who to put in the starting lineup each night and who to play or give minutes to, i mean real minutes, not 45 seconds. He finally started giving jj some minutes, but if him or any other player start playing bad then he benches them. Why isn’t kirk and pargo receiving less minutes, they both suck and can’t make a basket even if they were paid millions to do so, oh wait, they are paid millions to do so, so that means they really suck, including the stupid jackass coach for giving them all these fucking minutes to help the team lose games. I know the bulls are hurting but that doesns’t mean you play your worst players( yes, kirk and pargo is the bulls worst players on this team this year).
by Jermal on Mar 20, 2010 10:04 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Maybe the Bulls have seen enough of Acie Law
to decide that they’re going to attempt to re-sign him this offseason. The plan now might be to try to bring down his contract demands as well as lower the interest from other teams competing to sign him by playing him less minutes for the remainder of the season.
That’s all I’ve got guys….
Vinny"box of rocks" is getting a bad rap.
Reinsdorf and his two henchmen are the true villians. You reap “bad team” what you sow "long-term contracts to boy scouts (injury-prone Deng and coache’s son Hinrich).
by sadafan on Mar 20, 2010 11:17 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I just peeked at the box score, and thank god I didn't watch this game
Between Flip, Kirk and Pargo there were 44 shots taken
and 0 free throw attempts.
you have got to be kidding me.
by darksmokepuncher on Mar 20, 2010 11:52 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I think I'm done watching basketball
between Marquette and this team, I think I’ve had enough.
on second thought, maybe its time I root for Kentucky and the Lakers.
by darksmokepuncher on Mar 20, 2010 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions
good points about shots to free throw disparity
of course Law had 2 shots and 4 ft attempts. You don’t want to reward that kind of efficiency
by Basketball Smurf on Mar 20, 2010 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions
I stopped watching a few weeks ago
what did I miss on Law?
RIP Jim Thome 1-25-2010
an AL team not having a DH is like a giraffe fucking a mule. - larry
he scores 20 points on 8 shots one game
and is better than Pargo,
because a box of rocks is better than Pargo.
Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!
oh,
i read the headline quick and thought they scored 85 and actually fired vinny!
"Let's do some living... after we die"
I guess I'm in the minority in that this isn't the game to hang VDN's firing on....
I sort of understand the reason that Law didn’t get too many minutes. I was able to watch the whole game against Cleveland, and the Bulls started out pretty well. Cleveland showed early that they weren’t fully interested, Lebron for three quarters was inexplicably deferring to teammates on offense, his teammates wer clanking jumper after jumper off the rim.
The Bulls had a shot in this one, and VDN played player combos that were semi-succesful at times against the disinterested Lebrons. Kirk had an ok night (not shooting) and should have been in as much as possible — seemed like his PT was broken up a bit too much in short spurts.
Brad was crap last night and rightfully stayed out much of the game.
Pargo was ok inside the arc early on in the game, seemed like it would be one of his ‘hot games’ early on, and likely got too much PT after he cooled off in the 2nd quarter. Vinny got fooled with that one, hoping he would get hot again at some point (it should likely be assumed that Pargo’s good days are long gone, as New Orleans must’ve learned awhile back when they axed him).
My main critique of VDN last night is his weird subbing in terms of timing. I found myself saying ‘WTF, VDN, WTF?’ several times when the Bulls were making mini-runs and cutting the CAVS’ lead or even taking a small lead, obviously with a bit of momentum, and Vinny sends two subs to the scorer’s table to check in. This breaks the momentum at a time when it is one of the few things they’ve got going for them. Usually this was not long after a previous sub, so legs on the floor should still be fresh. Why sub now? Why not wait a possession or two?
I did like VDN’s early decision to put James Johnson on Lebron on defense. VDN would jump up and down when someone else was covering Lebron, and JJ would quickly run over to Lebron like it was a fifth grader b-ball game and little boys run around like crazy only able to think of where their man ran off to.
JJ played him athletically and mostly smart, and for some reason the refs didn’t hose JJ on every call with ticky tack fouls. Since when did a BUlls rookie get the benefit of the doubt? Either way, VDN succeeded here cause he saved JJ’s minutes to coincide with Lebron. He didn’t have Warrick come in for his mythical defense and athletic amazement on Lebron…. he stuck with the best chance guy, in this case.
All your base are belong to Vinny.
WTF, VDN, WTF?
Bulls ownership and management needs to be fired!!!!
Bulls ownership has always been cheap, but being cheap doesn’t necessarily mean you can’t be smart!!!! The problem with Bulls ownership is they reward cronies for being loyal, not for doing good work. They hired John Paxson, who had no front office experience whatsoever, to lead the Bulls into a new era. Now we know that if you don’t know something, then hire someone who does…… But we’re talking about the Bulls!!! They never follow a blueprint. They’ve drafted talent and never tried to develop the talent (why do you have coaches and assistants?) They’ve never tried to establish any core principles or philosophies (other than let’s make money). Are the Bulls trying to be an offensive team or a defensive team? Who are your core players that you can build around and create a potential champion?? It’s apparent that the Bulls don’t care, unless they’re forced to! Think about when M.J. was with the Bulls, he played with a passion that hasn’t been seen since, and that caught the Bulls attention, but they still tried to downplay his worth until he and Phil were teamed up, and the rest is history!!! The Bulls front office don’t care about their fans or their players and coaches. The “Free Agent” class of 2010 will steer clear of Chicago, just like the class of 2000, and then what will they have???? They need to sign a real coach from either San Antonio, Utah, or the Lakers, and let them come in and establish a real gameplan, a philosophy, accountability, player development, and this will result into an eventual champion!!! Rose, Noah, Johnson, and Gibson deserve this and they are the guys to build around!!!!
You can't fire ownership.....
I know you can’t. However, J.R. and his fellow co-owners need to sell the team to someone who likes to win just as much as they like to make money! When you’re a winner, the money always comes…….
Stop buying tickets
Stop watching on TV. Do no buy any merchandise. Until Reinsdorf has some incentive to improve the product, nothing will change. You get what you pay for. A decade of crap and people come back for more of the same.
by sbd on Mar 20, 2010 4:54 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
Next season will be the same
We will overpay for a mediocre free agent, waste a draft pick on Marcus Fizer Jr. and end up in the same place as this year.
I watch free streams, which I am sure JR hates. :)
We miss you, Tyrus Thomas and Ben Gordon!
by Granny Waiters on Mar 20, 2010 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions
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