The Acie Law, can the Bulls get lucky?
by SoulEater7 on Mar 18, 2010 12:49 AM CDT
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So yeah, two games and I'm pretty impressed with his scoring ability. I hate to jump the gun but he has a strong college resume. I remember watching him and loved what I saw. I would think that if he keeps this up he has a strong chance of being a Jason Terry type player (assuming he puts work in) I still see the baller in him.
Here's hoping on this fine St.Patties day the Bulls have found a guy.
"We've talked about that with (general manager) Gar (Forman)," Law said of he and his agent. "They only have six players under contract (next season). I just want to play. I feel I can help some team be successful and that's what I'll concentrate on this summer. Now, I'm trying to help this team get to where it can get to."
KC
"It has been hard to get minutes with established people ahead of me," Law said. "I'm just doing my best to show them I can play and I can help this team."
He has been the best player (not saying much) so far and that even including hot head Hinirch.
Law still isn't a great defensive player and maybe he never will. He gets hung up on screens and does turn the ball over but he's clearly got some skill and would make a nice backup to Derrick Rose. Maybe even move him to the two and you could have two very tough guards. His ability to make tough shots was something I noticed of him in college and I wonder given time and a team that has faith in him he can excel in the NBA as a backup.
This was the first time I saw him play. Maybe I'm bias. The kid has moxie and in the NBA you need a guy who has moxie. Remember BG?
Not to get head of ourselves on this kid but it's something to look out for. Lets hope he continues to improve and maybe VDN will grow a pair and play him over Pargo and Murray when he decides to wanna win games and start that playoff push. Any time now Vinny.
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If they didn't keep Hinrich, I'd say they would need a combo guard next year.
Well getting Chris Bosh will make the team noticeably better, it will still be a transition year. Getting the new SG drafted into playing well, figuring out how to play with the new coach and each other, waiting one more year to get exceptions… so I’d be all for trying him out.
But they have Hinrich, so they don’t need Law.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
I was thinking the same thing.
Hopefully they can move Hinrich this summer for a SG if they do get Bosh. Then sign Law to play as a combo guard off the bench.
But I know that won’t happen as they would want Hinrich to be that combo guard.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
Yep. If the Bulls draft a SG of the future (James Anderson, Willie Warren, etc)....
…then Hinrich will need to teach him how to play SG, I guess.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
That's sarcasm right?
I don’t want Hinrich anywhere near this team. What the hell would he teach anyone? How to suck for 3 years and still keep a job?
by SoulEater7 on Mar 18, 2010 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
He would
teach intangibles, like penetrating in and out of the paint w/o passing or attempting a shot, also fiestiness and glue, much glue, swinging the ball from side to side, passing up open looks to pass to a shooter thats even worse.
by QUINTEN DALEY on Mar 18, 2010 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions
and how to find castles
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
I know you are mentioning those intangibles as a sarcastic put down of Captain Kurt but
Hinrich is a master of these skills compared to any other guard in the NBA which makes him the most valuable player on the floor with 20 seconds or less to go and the Bulls clinging to a one or two point lead.
You know he’ll never shoot and somehow gets in and out of the lane like a waterbug as the seconds tick off. So I think he should be awarded kudos for being in constant motion with absolutely nothing happening. I’m not quite sure if that ability can justify a $9 million dollar contract, however.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Mar 18, 2010 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hinrich's not that bad
but the direction this team is going he doesn’t fit in.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
Dude he getting out played by Acie Law.
He’s career his falling apart and he knows it.
by SoulEater7 on Mar 18, 2010 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah the Hinrich myth is being exposed
He’s just not that good
by Dils on Mar 18, 2010 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
he once was
but i agree, i think its time for a change of scenery for hinrich, actually now looking at it in hindsight, i actually do wish hinrich was traded to the lakers…It sucks that part of the reason i got into basketball again was because of watching hinrich play, he had passion for the game, he lacked extraordinary skills (in terms of nba talent) but more than made up for it by just being smarter, fundamentally sound, trying hard at all times, doing the little things…for a guy whos only memories of professional basketball had to do with watching mj, scottie and that incredible bulls team, it was completely refreshing, it was like an epiphany….
but alas im not blind, and watching kirk, hes not the same as the guy who i wanted to mimic on the basketball court, I still like him as a player and all, and im still a fan of his game…its just that it doesnt seem like hes going to be playing what i believe to be “his game” ….
AHH I HATE THIS ORGANIZATION AND WHAT THEY HAVE DONE…..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
I do mimick Kirk on a basketball court...
I’m never the fastest, the most athletic, or the most talented… but I don’t do stupid shit all the time and I can through a two handed bounce pass with the best of them.
I’m not very good.
2010... where relevant basketball in Chicago happens!
Random thought at 3am...
But I was just remembering when Kirk was drafted, how there was a media obsession with his floppy hair…
and that led to me thinking that when Noah was drafted, besides his suit, they talked about his hair more than anything….
And then I remembered when we singed Ben Wallace and everybody talked about his fro and how he couldn’t wear headbands…
And of course their was Rodman and his constantly batshit hairstyles…
I suspect we have had more media coverage about hair than any other sports team ever.
2010... where relevant basketball in Chicago happens!
You forget that MJ was a trendsetter for NOT having hair.
I suspect we have had more media coverage about hair than any other sports team ever.
We miss you, Tyrus Thomas and Ben Gordon!
by Granny Waiters on Mar 19, 2010 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions
to be fair i dont think kirk does stupid shit all the time
in fact, i think he plays it WAY TOO SAFE which is the biggest problem. . Except when it comes to refs, then he plays it dumb…dumb and angry…but i’ll be honest, id probably react the same way to those ref situations….
But when all your best players are out, and by at least the guys in charge of your team you are being considered the best player, you should just step up. Maybe he doesnt have the personality of a scorer (okay no maybes about it, he just doesnt) but he is so coveted by this team and its coaches because he was drafted on, and has continued to show at least a desire to want to win, and deferring to lesser players just simply isnt going to get you anywhere on a depleted team. Hes gotta be more bold, sometimes create for himself as well as others. He will make 1 shot out 4 and call it a night, two points in 40 minutes in no way helps your team win, unless you have 10 assists to go along with that…and playing with guys like pargo, thats a tell tale sign to shoot the damn ball.
Ben Gordon takes a shot, he misses, he takes 5 more, misses them all….you think he says to himself, alright bg no more shots, lets defer to someone else….NO! he keeps taking shots, with the belief that they are all going to fall, and lo and behold when he finally does knock down one, it leads to him knocking down several more, by the end of the game hes like 11/22….thats 50% shooting…..but u dont see that with kirk…hell take five shots, and after every shot he hesitates more and more, until 40 minutes later you realize he only took 6 shots in the entire game, making 2…..its that part of kirks game that pisses me off the most.
When skiles was around i remember he would yell at kirk “Green!!” meaning TAKE THE DAMN SHOT, and i think thats part of what led to kirk being a better player than he has shown post skiles. I dont think hinrichs skills have deteriorated, but i think mentally hes lost whatever edge that made his average talents above average…and its making him look below average
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Mar 19, 2010 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
you know who has become sort of like that (albeit more efficient)
for no real reason? Mike Miller. Guy is an all-world shooter who doesnt like to shoot anymore.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
by TheMoon on Mar 19, 2010 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
yikes in terms of mike miller
cuz at least with hinrich you can say, cuz hes a defender(HUSTLE!!!) or hes a pg trying to get assists (PASS FIRST SECOND AND THEN SHOOT BAD SHOTS THIRD) but with miller, shooting is his niche, its why hes in the nba, its why he is on a team, hes not supposed to defend, pass, hell they dont even care about him driving to the rim, they just want him to shoot…and he doesnt?
maybe its the new haircut
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
I don't think he does stupid shit all the time either....
That’s what I was saying, I’m a poor man’s Kirk, and I don’t do stupid shit either.
2010... where relevant basketball in Chicago happens!
Is being exposed???
That happened like 4 years ago. Even when he signed his contract people were complaining it was too much money. I don’t know what the myth is.. Any average basketball fan knows he isn’t that good, and has known that for a long time.
by Grinder in Training on Mar 18, 2010 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
I'm pretty sure he's still here because nobody wanted to trade for him and his shit contract.
Which as it always does, comes back to GarPax. Had that lottery ball not fallen in their lap things might be different.
Yes, but!
Had a different lottery in 2003 ball landed us anything higher than #7 we would have Chris Kamen, Dwayne Wade, or Chris Bosh, and Hinrich would have probably been a Heat or Buck.
2010... where relevant basketball in Chicago happens!
Yeah....
It’s pretty well documented that we thought we would get him, and that’s who Pax planned on taking.
Unfortunately, Pat Riley saw the same things in Wade.
2010... where relevant basketball in Chicago happens!
Really?
This is the post that gets recced? I’ve seen lots of funny, informative, interesting tear-downs of the Captain on this site- how is this worth reccing?
Will everyone stop hating on Deng, please?
Yeah I tried to figure that out myself
But hey a Rec is a Rec. Besides maybe simple and sweet is the best policy when it comes to criticizing Kirk now. We’re all exhausted with him and his play and the lack of criticism he receives by the media. So maybe just saying that he’s just not that good of a player says it all.
by Dils on Mar 19, 2010 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Don't include me
in your “we’re all exhausted with him” statement.
OK I don't know shit about basketball.
by SoulEater7 on Nov. 5, 2009 9:51 PM CST
That was assumed.
We miss you, Tyrus Thomas and Ben Gordon!
by Granny Waiters on Mar 19, 2010 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not really being that critical of Kirk
So much as I am of the people who thought he was something he’s not. Or the people who overpaid him. Saying a guy isn’t good that really isn’t good isn’t being critical so much as telling the truth.
He’s a fine basketball player, and a solid roleplayer for a good team. He’s just paid as a good basketball player, and was treated as such by some, and now we are stuck with a large contract he doesn’t really deserve.
I can think negatively about a guy’s contract, and what other people think about him, while at the same time, think positively about him & his play in general.
by Grinder in Training on Mar 19, 2010 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Well said...
Personally I just don’t think he’s that good. I guess in saying that, it can be looked at as being critical but like you said it’s just the truth. Because what’s the flip side of that statement? It would be that he is good. That he is a good player and I just don’t think that he’s been that player for almost 4 years now.
You can say the same about Luol Deng.
These ridiculous contracts the Bulls signed Hinirch and Deng to are a big reason BG and Tyrus are gone. They are also a big reason why the Bulls only have enough for one Max guy when they wanted to make room for two. GarPax was fooled by both these players playing well in a contract year. They haven’t done shit since. Thats why I don’t want David Lee.
Don't group Deng w/ Hinrich
thats disrespect
by QUINTEN DALEY on Mar 18, 2010 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions
Not really..
Luol Deng is probably overpaid a bit, but compard to Hinrich’s contract it’s not close. Luol Deng being on the team is not holding us back.
by Grinder in Training on Mar 18, 2010 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions
And..
Someone would probably want Luol Deng in a sign and trade. No one wants Kirk Hinrich.
by Grinder in Training on Mar 18, 2010 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions
Or the Bulls
would get low-balled on talent to dump Deng, while asking for an insane amount of talent for Hinrich(in order to turn teams off and kill deals, just to keep him)
by QUINTEN DALEY on Mar 18, 2010 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions
Really?
He’s been injured in key moments in each season EXCEPT HIS CONTRACT YEAR. He’s the highest paid player (Don’t say Brad Miller) on the Bulls. The Bulls have tried to trade him but he makes too damn much. Both these players are making a combined 21 million this season? For what? I’d say they’re holding the Bulls back.
Yes it is.
You know why? Because he’s NOT PLAYING!! You don’t get extra credit for playing up to standard for half a year. He’s an injury prone player who isn’t an impact player. He is VASTLY over paid no matter how much the contract numbers for his position are rationalized.
The over value of Deng and Hinrich are the death nails to this franchise. A lucky lotto ball for Rose is the only thing stopping this team from being the Timberwolves.
Let me offer up a hypothetical
If you’re getting a player in sign and trade, do you want:
a) The guy playing fairly well with an expiring contract
b) The guy with 2 years left whose production has fallen off a cliff
I would go with "c"
c) The guy with more than one year left whose production has increased.
I’m convinced that’s possible with three way trades with teams over the LT.
Tyrus is gone because the Bulls didn't want him, his contract had nothing to do with it.
How its Deng’s fault Gordon isn’t here is beyond me. The team values Kirk more than Ben, and Deng is better than both of them.
by Ozzie Montana on Mar 18, 2010 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions
I didn't say it was Lu or Kirk's fault. Thats on GarPax for paying these turds.
I truely believe they intended to give them big money and then trade them for a star like Kobe, Gasol blah blah blah. Well they aren’t tradable now so they are killing the Bulls 2010 money. The Bulls have all these expiring contracts because of Deng and Hinrich’s contracts. Had they moved one of those they might have been able to get two big time players. But they will just sell that Kirk and Deng are the core. Everyone with a basketball brain knows they aren’t very good. You think the top free agents mention Luol Deng or Kirk Hinrich like they are some top talent making people wanna jump ship to the Bulls? No.
Kobe wasn't okaying
any trade that involved Deng, do you think the to FA’s would’ve mentioned BG, if they really wanted BG they would’ve resigned him or made a trade to free up space to keep him, but they didn’t.
by QUINTEN DALEY on Mar 19, 2010 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions
And it's not over yet...
Hinrich is the gift that keeps on giving. In order to get out from under his contract, the Bulls would likely have to package him and a young talent, of which we can’t afford to give up at this time.
"The people we lost, I'm sad we lost them because they helped us. But the organization saw something in these players. They're going to help us. They don't have any attitude problems. They just want to ball." - Derrick Rose
Not really...
Deng still has much higher trade value. Even if this is Deng’s ceiling, Deng is an above average starting SF. Whereas Hinrich has solidified himself in this league as a backup combo guard – with a ceiling that would make a smurf claustrophobic. See the difference?
"The people we lost, I'm sad we lost them because they helped us. But the organization saw something in these players. They're going to help us. They don't have any attitude problems. They just want to ball." - Derrick Rose
by leeac on Mar 18, 2010 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'd expect Law to come supercheap
There aren’t bidding wars over guys who play 200 minutes in a season, so if we sign a free agent and have a mil or two for filler, I’d re-sign him based solely on potential. I think his passing is awful though, and he’s a mediocre shooter (Terry is one of the best ever), so I don’t know where he takes his game from here. But a couple mil for a 25 year old with his resume, size and athleticism is a bargain.
by YaoPau on Mar 18, 2010 8:46 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs
Acie Law
is a left handed Anthony Johnson.
by QUINTEN DALEY on Mar 18, 2010 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions
But at a cheaper price
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
except he can't score
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
ok that makes more sense
but noone is saying he’s the next BG, just a 2.0 version but no upgrade, just cheaper parts
unfortunately the company that makes the software my bank uses
doesnt buy into this idea. invariably 2.0 is worse than the original.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
2.0
essentially means sequel…not all sequels are good, if a software company tries to change too much, they usually get a bad 2.0..its not unheard of or wierd, the goal is to make an upgraded product, but sometimes you dont reach your goal…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
Agreed
If we can get him for the minimum or close to it, I’m all for bringing him back. If it takes morethan that, there are better options to pursue via free agency.
Brad Miller is god.
by Poloplaya14 on Mar 18, 2010 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions
The same applies to Chris Richard as well.
Brad Miller is god.
by Poloplaya14 on Mar 18, 2010 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions
He belongs in the D-League where he was
I’m sure we can find a much better free agent big than that.
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
I'm not
We have 6 players signed through next season. Add a 1st round pick and that’s 7. A max FA brings us to 8. We’ll have a little cap room left over to add another player, so that makes 9. Barring any trades, that leaves us 4 spots to be filled solely by minimum salary players. I’m not sure we can get 4 minimum players better than Richard.
Brad Miller is god.
by Poloplaya14 on Mar 20, 2010 11:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah you may be right
especially for the minimum salary. He just seems worse this time than he was during his first stint. I look at the Warriors bring all these D-League guys in and they have much more skill than Richard does. As long as he’s the last guy on the bench it can’t hurt.
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
As far as bench players go at least he has potential.
I’d like the Bulls to sign him on the cheap and stash him on the bench. Acie Law had a very impressive college resume and has lead the summer leagues in scoring (I believe). Give him another year.
I wonder if despite his lack of playing time that some franchise might throw money at him due to his former lottery status. Top picks always draw attention – lets hope he stays under the radar. “End Transmission”
by South Jersey Wedding Photographer on Mar 19, 2010 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions
True dat
Give me a guy with spit and vinegar. That trumps moxie anyday.
Hell, Kirk has moxie. The day he kicks the opposing player (or ref) in the nuts is the day he finally earns his contract — cause only then will he graduate to the level of spit and vinegar.
Acie ain’t even bumped a ref or shoved an all-star Dalls player, yet. Long way for that dude. But he is cheap, so I say give him a chance.
All your base are belong to Vinny.
WTF, VDN, WTF?
by BCs71 on Mar 18, 2010 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
rec'd
for making me spit up coffee through my nose.
"The people we lost, I'm sad we lost them because they helped us. But the organization saw something in these players. They're going to help us. They don't have any attitude problems. They just want to ball." - Derrick Rose
Trade Derrick Rose!
The Bulls have found their new PG. Wait, we’re talking about Jannero Pargo, right?
"Oh, y ahora ¿quién podrá defenderme?" "¡Yo!"
i think this is on par with souleaters typical "whatever has just happened is the most important thing thats ever happened"
line of thinking.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
by TheMoon on Mar 18, 2010 2:34 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
I guess watching Michael Jordan to watching Kirk Hinrich will do that to you.
Just a thought. There was a time we had winners here.
that's why paxson drafts in the final four
they’re winners!!!
Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!
Then we should have Ty Lawson right now
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
not unproven enough
Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!
There you go.
Of course.
Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!
Lawson and Blair would have been awesome.
I would have gone Blair and Budinger, but Lawson and Blair would rock, too.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Law
In the games Rose has missed, Law has posted about 11ppg and 2 asst. Not bad for averaging 17 mpg. I see Law as a quality 4th guard. He has showcased what he can do. Driving the lane and scoring or dropping a pass off. He is an asset. But a min. contract one. He has potential. I would rather see him out there then Pargo. True, Pargo can get hot and get us back in the game, but he takes too many shots. It’s fine now for a 9th seeded team. In the future however, for a competitive team (hopefully next year) we can not take that risk. Sign Law cheap, esp. if we lose Hinrich.
Lee J. Corwin
http://homepages.wmich.edu/~l4corwin/
Any game Pargo has shot us into
he has shot us back out of. I don’t think its true that Pargo can get hot and bring us back from a deficit for a win.
Bosh or Bust
by JockstrapNoah on Mar 21, 2010 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions
I've seen pargo get us back into a game
if by ‘get back’ you mean ‘change the deficit from 20 to 15 before changing the deficit from 15 to 30’.
Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!
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