Knicks already have 'wink wink' deal with Joe Johnson?
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 12, 2010 10:17 AM CST
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Frank Isola, via the mothership:
There is a growing sentiment among opposing team executives that at the very least the Knicks will sign Atlanta's Joe Johnson, whose agent, Arn Tellem, orchestrated the Tracy McGrady trade to the Knicks and has been friends with Walsh for 20 years. It's called a "wink-wink deal," and even though it is against NBA rules, the practice does exist and is nearly impossible to police.
"I think that's a done deal," said one Eastern Conference GM.
Well if true (there's a D'Antoni connection too), there's a bullet dodged*. Though I can't decide whether having one FA in the bag would help or hurt NY's chances of getting one of the big-3 to come play with him. I suppose Joe Johnson is more of a selling point than Wilson Chandler. Though so much for Joe not 'backtracking'.
The only concern here is that Reinsdorf reads this and is offended that someone else is considered Arn Tellem's best friend, and outbids for his client.
*I re-read that and it's not entirely correct. I'd prefer Joe Johnson, even in a cap-killing deal, over getting nobody. This team needs talent first, then worry about never winning a title because of the luxury tax later.
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depending on the contract Joe Johnson gets
i would almost rather have any available free agent than him. although, i don’t believe this report. Why would Joe Johnson put his career on hold so he can be NY sloppy seconds if they don’t get Lebron, Bosh or Wade?
by Basketball Smurf on Mar 12, 2010 10:27 AM CST reply actions
i can think of several reasons
1. he likes d’antoni’s system
2. he thinks they’ll get a big FA in addition to him
3. new york
4. new york
5. new york
6. money
he like D'Antoni system so much he left Phoenix to play for Atlanta
In truth, I think he was upset with all the attention Nash, Stoudemire and Marion was getting and thought he’d never break out there.
Points 2 and 6 I can see however. I heard something about him wanting to play with Lebron.
by Basketball Smurf on Mar 12, 2010 10:43 AM CST up reply actions
Actually....I think the Phoenix situation was about the money
I think the “attention” thing is usually smoke/mirrors. If you pay the player, the other guys can have all the attention they want. Here’s the article I remember.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
the link is completely non-conclusive and disputes what you said in several places
Restricted free agent Joe Johnson, who next week plans to sign a lucrative offer sheet from the Atlanta Hawks, told ESPN.com on Friday night that he has asked the Phoenix Suns not to match the offer.
Asked why he wants to leave the Suns after a breakthrough season, for himself and the team, Johnson said: “It’s a lot of things. How things were handled [with Johnson’s contract] last summer, how things have been handled this summer. There’s been some things going on that aren’t great.”
According to sources close to the situation, Johnson is also unhappy with what he perceives as his standing as a “fourth wheel” behind the All-Star trio of Nash, Amare Stoudemire and Marion. Besides the opportunity to be the star man on its youthful roster, Atlanta is offering as much as the rules allow without holding Johnson’s Larry Bird rights — a frontloaded five-year deal worth an estimated $70 million, with an up-front payment as high as $20 million in Year 1.
Johnson’s playmaking ability is viewed by scouts as a critical component to the Suns’ success. Phoenix doesn’t have another dependable ballhandler to punish opponents who try to force the ball out of Nash’s hands. “I love the idea,” Johnson said. “I’d love that, having the ball in my hands. I think I’m a great shooter, but that’s where I think I’m most effective, making decisions.”
by Basketball Smurf on Mar 12, 2010 10:59 AM CST up reply actions
Bleh
That’s true, but I’ve read that’s he still likes D’Antoni
Brad Miller is god.
by Poloplaya14 on Mar 12, 2010 11:24 AM CST up reply actions
Admittedly... having trouble finding some sources still available
At the moment, this passage Wikipedia (See Atlanta Hawks section) is the best I can find.
What I do remember (and will hopefully find sources to link) is that his determination to leave Phoenix had been sealed before the summer arrived. It had to do with a perceived slight from Phoenix management on his value in $dollars as opposed to Shawn Marion’s situation where there did appear to be resentment on the attention other received (in a high school sense). After all, he was eligible for salary raise, and I contend that was his first priority.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
My contention is in contrast to yours about the attention he wasn't getting...
and an opportunity to break out.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
Here's what you left out of the article
Johnson hoped to sign a six-year, $50 million extension with Phoenix before last season, but the talks stalled with the sides about $5 million apart.
The Suns offered Johnson a six-year deal in the $60 million range this summer, some $30 million less than he’s eligible to receive from his current team. Hoping for significantly more after averaging 17.1 points and shooting 48 percent on 3-pointers to help Phoenix win a stunning 62 games and advance to the Western Conference finals, Johnson and agent Arn Tellem quickly entered into negotiations with the Hawks.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
Johnson still asked them to not match the offer
it was about more than money.
by Basketball Smurf on Mar 12, 2010 12:42 PM CST up reply actions
Close, but it's more like this
1. money
2. money
3. money
4. he likes d’antoni’s system
5. he thinks they’ll get a big FA in addition to him
6. new york
Brad Miller is god.
by Poloplaya14 on Mar 12, 2010 11:23 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Money isn't a factor.
Every team besides Atlanta can offer him the same amount, so start at 4.
by Grinder in Training on Mar 12, 2010 12:56 PM CST up reply actions
The teams that would consider signing him are.
Which is all that is relevant.
by Grinder in Training on Mar 12, 2010 1:46 PM CST up reply actions
maybe he's the sloppy seconds if they DO get LeBron/Bosh/Wade
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 12, 2010 10:38 AM CST up reply actions
maybe, i still can't get too upset about this
Joe Johnson is my least favorite free agent target. And even if he does follow Lebron to NY, that is a lot less scary than Lebron and Bosh or Lebron and Wade.
by Basketball Smurf on Mar 12, 2010 10:46 AM CST up reply actions
I've seen the "Ron Mercer" scenario before and it holds no fear for me...
It’s not like the Bulls signing expensive junk because they miss out on all the top 10 FAs would be a shock. I mean KC has repeatedly said he doesn’t think the Bulls will get anything of note in free agency. And, honestly, Chicago is not an attractive FA destination (cold weather, high taxes, crap team, ownership with bad, bad reputation, etc.).
If the Bulls sign anyone decent, it’s gravy.
This is good, IMO
Not so much because it means that we won’t get JJ, because I’d be okay with that, but it means that there’s one less attractive bidder for the other, more attractive free agents. Let’s say that the worst-case scenario happens now (LeBron chooses NY, Wade stays in Miami, Bosh joins him there), that leaves us and NJ as by far the most attractive destination for Amare or Boozer, all but guaranteeing we get one of them.
Brad Miller is god.
Good. They were made for each other.
He’ll continue the proud Knickerbocker tradition of above-average yet not elite players that lay their careers to waste in the hallowed MSG.
Ahh, a Fanpost. I shoulda looked up top first.
But yeah, I still don’t know how you can’t police it when it’s being read all over the internet
Yeah I don't want a 30 year old SG next to a budding 21 star PG.
NYC can have him. All that matters is Bosh and Wade wanting to be with our core of Kirk Hinirch and Luol Deng. I know one will find it appealing to play with a declining skills tweener who is 30. Also a injury prone spot up 2 point shooting small forward. Bulls could be in trouble.
So..
Do they just not get to play with Rose, Noah and Gibson? Sound like a politician with that kind of phrasing. If you picked out the third and fourth best player of just about any team and called them the core of the team it’d sound bad too.
by Grinder in Training on Mar 12, 2010 1:01 PM CST up reply actions
It's sarcasm.
No the core is Rose and Noah thats it. (IMO) If Gar Forman is going tell people that Taj, Deng and Kirk are players that FA wanna come play with he’s the politician.
Except that we know
that Deng was a player that Kobe wanted to play with, and that was a major reason that deal tanked.
Vinny: "[Thrust] means pace, it means getting the ball out, it means getting your back to the sidelines, it means extending your outlets, it means getting the ball up the court into our early offense with plenty of time."
by runningman on Mar 14, 2010 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Excellent point
Also, Taj is getting a decent amount of hype around the league, and Kirk’s always had a rep as a great defender.
Brad Miller is god.
3 Days ago there was this post that totally refutes this- which is correct?
http://www.blogabull.com/2010/3/9/1364564/johnson-would-be-willing-to-sign#32233101
In this post Johnson was quoted saying that he’d sign less than max for other opportunities.
He also said one of the only thing that matters is not being in a rebuilding project aka the 2010-11 Knicks minus Lebron. So which is it Joe?
Not sure what the issue is here?
Both quotes say he wants to play for a good team. If the Knicks sign LeBron or Bosh, the Knicks would be that team.
The 2010-11 Knicks are not going to be a rebuilding project if they sign two max players.
by Grinder in Training on Mar 12, 2010 1:49 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
plus overpaying Joe Johnson is less of an issue to the Knicks
since they will undoubtedly go into the tax in future seasons to build the team. Not that it matters if the cornerstones are Joe Johnson and a mid-tier PF, plus their picks are gone…
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 12, 2010 2:50 PM CST up reply actions
I'm sure Reinsdorf would be happy to pocket $3 million.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
he laughs at them!
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 12, 2010 4:30 PM CST up reply actions
Now there is a rumor
that Raptors would be willing to do a sign and trade Bosh for Lee. Man this is not good it takes 3 top FA’s off the availability list if this is true. We better get Wade or we might be left out in the cold as we have been for a decade now.
The Dude Abides
Colangelo has said all along
that if Bosh decides to leave, he won’t let him go for nothing. He will do a sign and trade.
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
Bosh would have to
want to go to the Knicks for that to work.
by QUINTEN DALEY on Mar 12, 2010 3:49 PM CST up reply actions
He doesnt really have that option...
Bosh is an unrestricted free agent…so he can sign without offering Colangelo the right to match or sign and trade.
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
by Dionysus2.0 on Mar 13, 2010 12:34 PM CST up reply actions
You didn't read the link did you?
Of course Bosh doesn’t have to do it but is he really going to turn down a sign and trade which will give him more money and an extra year?
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
So they have what?
1- ?
2- JJ, Walker
3- Galinari, Chandler
4- Bosh
5- ?
That’s pretty nice if the Knicks can play 3 on 3
I'll go ahead and debunk that rumor right now
Not saying it can’t happen, but Bosh and Lee are both unrestricted. Good luck convincing Lee to pass up all his options to move to Canada.
but think of the strip clubs!
You can convince Lee to pass up options if this option gets him paid.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 12, 2010 4:31 PM CST up reply actions
Just had a thought here. Tell me if I'm wrong
Couldn’t the raptors s + t bosh for nothing (or next to nothing), and pick up a $16.5 million trade exception in the process? They could then use that trade exception to go after Lee (or anybody else) via the S+T route. The same idea applies to the cavs and lebron.
Brad Miller is god.
Yes they could
There is precedent for that.
"I skim a LOT of what gets said here
in a race to put in a smirky retort."
-your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 16, 2009 4:52 PM EDT
So really any team with a big FA of their own could become a FA player themselves
That’s a lot more teams that could get involved then
Brad Miller is god.
by Poloplaya14 on Mar 13, 2010 12:19 PM CST up reply actions
Ok...our list is dwindling here
1. Lebron James (staying in cleveland)
2. Dewayne Wade (bulls miss playoffs)
3. Chris Bosh (bulls miss playoffs)
4. Amare Stoudemire
5. Joe Johnson (going to new york)
6. Carlos Boozer
7. Kobe Bryant (staying in los angeles)
8. David Lee
9. Dirk Nowitzki (staying in dallas)
10. Manu Ginobli
11. Brandon Roy (bulls miss playoffs)
12. Yao Ming
Why aren't they selling Rose's all star jersey?
Brandon Roy isn't a free agent
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
my bad, i thought he was for some reason
Why aren't they selling Rose's all star jersey?
If he was...
I’d rank him 4 on your list. He would be perfect for us.
2010... where relevant basketball in Chicago happens!
i didnt put them in any specific order
Why aren't they selling Rose's all star jersey?
This whole thing makes less and less sense each day.
Are Wade and Bosh more interested in a championship than anyone you didn’t cross out? Did Amare issue a statement saying “I have lower standards”? Clarify please…
hard pail lunch hat
hongydraw makes less and less sense each day
though honestly, the whole FA ‘recruitment’ is pretty nonsensical. I feel like we’ll only know of motivations when they actually start signing places. There hasn’t been a class (or teams with max room) like this before.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 12, 2010 4:32 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I would go as far to say we never know and we only attribute motivations expos facto.
I saw T2 at Walgreens in Deerfield he’s tall. if you’re wondering what his grocery list included: magnums, french vanilla ice cream and a 20 oz sprite
by Super-Structure on Mar 12, 2010 8:39 PM CST up reply actions
Right. They all say things up until the minute they sign somewhere else.
If you’re not following things super duper close, you have no clue.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Yao won't be a FA either
He can opt out, but I highly doubt he does that after missing the entire season.
Brad Miller is god.
I was going to mention that too
but I didn’t because it’s at least a possibility, unlike Brandon Roy.
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
i actually think he still might opt out.
if any year, this is the year to do it in. lots of teams with cap space will try to please their fanbases after james and wade stay with their teams, and their is only one boozer.
Why aren't they selling Rose's all star jersey?
How can he opt out
on an extension that was just signed this past offseason? Are we both talking about Brandon Roy or are you thinking we are talking about someone else?
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
I think he's talking about Yao...
And he raises a valid point. Is it worth it to pass up a year of $18 million guaranteed and entering FA after getting healthy to be a FA this summer, when more teams will have cap space? That’s a good question, particularly with the new CBA looming.
Brad Miller is god.
Max
He rounds out the “second tier” so-to-speak that will all demand max deals.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
Johnson, Boozer, Stoudemire????
After James, Wade, Bosh?
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
More or less
It’s the “I don’t really deserve a max deal, but since all these teams have cap space and need to sign someone, I’m going to get a max deal” tier. Didn’t say it was a good decision necessarily for the teams involved.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
Yeah, I didn't mean all the question marks to indicate surprise.
My fault. Just wondering if you were along those lines.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
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