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Thoughts on James Johnson?



From what I can gather from the game thread, a few people were clamoring for his return to the court after he proved he could play some defense against the Hawks tonight.  He had a couple of nice blocks and seemed to bother Joe Johnson a little bit.

 

In my opinion, I always liked JJ, even when he was playing way to fast for his own good (and sucking).  Maybe it's because I like point-forwards.. and JJ looks like he could be a decent one.  He has shown to have adept passing skills.  He works hard on the defensive end, or he did tonight anyway.  He can shoot threes (and has shown a general willingness to do so, unlike foot-on-the-line Luol, who don't get me wrong, I like[him, not the foot... blahblahblah]) and runs the floor well.

 

If I were Vinny (thankfully, I'm not), I would take all of ParD'oh!'s minutes and give them to JJ to allow him to develop on his own, on the court, playing through his mistakes while everyone begins to fall in love with him.

What do you think?  Did you warm up a little bit to the seemingly forgotten 1st rounder?

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I suooprt your words but have nothing more to say

[otherwise known as a rec]

Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!

by Prevenge on Mar 2, 2010 12:32 AM CST up reply actions  

*support

cough.

Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!

by Prevenge on Mar 2, 2010 12:33 AM CST up reply actions  

they traded 2 and let 1 go for nothing

I think that is a pretty high pace for lottery picks. Not to mention what they did with the guys drafted by Krause but discarded by Pax.

by Basketball Smurf on Mar 2, 2010 1:01 AM CST up reply actions  

You can't say they gave up on ben

They gave him plenty of playing time and allowed him to thrice. Then they made the decision not to resign him. Right or wrong on that, giving up on him would be the wrong phrase to use, IMO.

Missing on 2 out of 7 lottery picks isn’t bad at all I. This league. Look at some other teams and you’ll see far worse. Hell, look at our roster and you’ll see some pretty shifty picks in law and Alexander

by Poloplaya14 on Mar 2, 2010 1:05 AM CST up reply actions   2 recs

Considering there was an offer on the table

At one time, I’d have to agree we didn’t give up on Ben originally. It’s not like no effort was ever made to keep him long term. He’s overpaid at this point, and while obviously he will not play this poorly the rest of his time with Detroit, he still was too expensive for what the Bulls are doing by the time he left.

by Grinder in Training on Mar 2, 2010 8:52 AM CST up reply actions  

That's a point that everyone seems to forget.

The Org tried to sign Ben for like 3 seasons straight and he thought he should make more money.

Wade 2010!!!!!

by illwill on Mar 2, 2010 6:52 PM CST up reply actions  

The Bulls could have kept Gordon for 6 years/$54M,

but JR didn’t want him back.

We miss you, Tyrus Thomas and Ben Gordon!

by Granny Waiters on Mar 3, 2010 1:17 AM CST up reply actions  

They gave up on Gordon, too.

It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147

We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.

-- yfBB

God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.

by fundamentallysound on Mar 2, 2010 1:05 AM CST up reply actions  

Also, the key thing with the players you acknowledge that they gave up on

that is different than the ones that they have kept is that they were guys that came in very raw and undeveloped and needed to be molded. Tyrus and Thabo both had a lot of potential, but the Bulls really failed to tap into it at all and then gave up. James Johnson is in that same mold. That’s why we’re worried about him.

It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147

We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.

-- yfBB

God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.

by fundamentallysound on Mar 2, 2010 1:08 AM CST up reply actions  

I would say Deng was in that same mold of raw with lots of potential and he worked out

In any case, I’d say about 1/3 of lottery picks turn out to be busts (this is an estimate). The Bulls haven’t been doing any worse than the rest of the league under Paxson.

by Poloplaya14 on Mar 2, 2010 1:17 AM CST up reply actions  

Excellent breakdown

I agree 100%.

"Where are the FUCKING TWINKIES?"

by Dash2112 on Mar 2, 2010 1:41 PM CST up reply actions  

He's not who I thought he'd be.

I thought he might be a touch better after watching him in preseason. Kinda disappointed by his showing tonight.

Beasley spent the first two quarters like he was wandering through a forest.-Neil Funk

by SoulEater7 on Mar 2, 2010 12:04 AM CST reply actions  

We could've picked better

  As a Florida State fan I had the chance of watching JJ play at Wake Forest and wasn’t at all impressed.I knew we made a bad pick when we picked him over D. Blair.If he really was that good I think he’d be playing more than Taj.Makes me feel like wondering just how much homework did our front office actually do on this guy.

by bravesdude on Mar 3, 2010 9:03 AM CST up reply actions  

He certainly changed my perception of him quite a bit tonight. I really liked how well he was

able to handle Joe Johnson in man to man defense.

He’s not the athlete Tyrus is and he’s probably dumber (at least at this stage) to boot, but he’s a better ball handler and shooter.

I hope we get to see more of him, especially if Deng is going to continue be sidelined. (For the love of God, Vinny, no more three guard lineups).

It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147

We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.

-- yfBB

God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.

by fundamentallysound on Mar 2, 2010 12:55 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

He may not have the athleticism that Tyrus has but he is way more coordinated which is exactly why he is a better shooter and ball handler

I think he actually has a good chance at contributing on both sides of the ball if he continues to get sum burn

by luoldung on Mar 2, 2010 1:23 AM CST up reply actions  

Please Vinny, the 3 guard line up

is killing us on the boards, especially when trying to use against one of the most athletic front lines in league.

by QUINTEN DALEY on Mar 3, 2010 3:31 PM CST up reply actions  

well I think you hit right on it

why invest in a guy that is a longshot to make it, the Bulls will trash, and then fans will call him stupid for 4 years and then berate people who want to talk about him? I’ll catch on the next train.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 2, 2010 8:39 AM CST up reply actions  

That's exactly why I'm not getting too excited
Sound like someone else everyone loves?

I’ve already seen how this ends. I hope he works hard on his own this summer and proves me wrong.

Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."

by bigballa10 on Mar 2, 2010 12:51 PM CST up reply actions  

I liked what I saw from James Johnson tonight

Played decent defense, didn’t have many dumb mistakes while getting extended time for basically the first time ever. However, foul trouble was still an issue, which will be the biggest barrier between him and getting consistent minutes.

by Poloplaya14 on Mar 2, 2010 12:58 AM CST reply actions  

I wanna see him get another start though.

Beasley spent the first two quarters like he was wandering through a forest.-Neil Funk

by SoulEater7 on Mar 2, 2010 1:10 AM CST reply actions  

With Noah / Deng / Rose / Miller

possibly seeing time out with injury, we need to give JJ some more minutes. let the kdis play!

by Jack M on Mar 2, 2010 8:19 AM CST reply actions  

I don't understand the bashing of the Bulls' developmental skills

This might be a topic for a separate post, but in a lot of these discussions there’s a take that the Org is so terrible at developing players. Relative to whom? I can’t think of too many organizations that are obviously better. When players “develop,” it’s usually a situation where they’re allowed to play to their strengths because the rest of the team can cover for their weaknesses. Thabo looks better in OKC but it’s not because he’s “developed”: he’s just fortunate to be on a team that can afford to have a non-scorer on the floor. How many teams, outside of Houston, are able to do that better than the Bulls?

by guaranteedcontract on Mar 2, 2010 9:52 AM CST reply actions  

a whole decade of lottery picks helps their cause

relative to successful franchises.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 2, 2010 10:30 AM CST up reply actions  

I don't see how that statement argues for your point, or I need more explanation

The question is whether the Bulls do a “bad” job of developing players. Compared to other teams with many lottery picks, they seem to me to be doing at least average, if not better. The “successful” franchises all tend to have a superstar that makes “development” easy.

by guaranteedcontract on Mar 2, 2010 10:38 AM CST up reply actions  

well, except Houston

That franchise is truly amazing at putting players in a position to succeed.

by guaranteedcontract on Mar 2, 2010 10:40 AM CST up reply actions  

How do you not get that statement?

Take baseball.. the Devil Rays obviously have a lot of young talent.. but they should have a lot of young talent, they had a bunch of top draft picks. When you have an opportunity to get BJ Upton, Evan Longoria, etc.. every year it makes things a lot easier to develop players.

The Lakers or Celtics or Spurs wouldn’t be expected to develop guys as well as the Bulls when their draft pick is always past number 20 (even though I would argue they have done a better job then the Bulls anyways, which is an bigger indictment of the coaching staff and front office).

Only a few teams have had the opportunities that Bulls have had to develop talent, so it’s not really fair to compare us to what the majority of teams are doing.

by Grinder in Training on Mar 2, 2010 10:57 AM CST up reply actions  

Baseball and basketball are very different

You can develop players in isolation in baseball. It’s essentially an individual sport. In basketball, the development of a player is limited/enhanced by the players around him. If you get BJ Upton on a basketball court, and he can’t shoot, and the rest of the players can’t shoot either, it’s pretty hard to develop him.

My main point is probably this: I think the Bulls have done a more than adequate job at developing the talent they received. Getting many lottery picks sounds nice in theory, but the reality is that unless you get a superstar with one of them, most teams get stuck for a long time. I think the Bulls main problem has been not getting value for the assets they do develop. They didn’t sell when they should have.

by guaranteedcontract on Mar 2, 2010 11:06 AM CST up reply actions  

Who have the Lakers developed?

I mean Kobe was lucky enough to play under Shaq and then “developed” into an overhyped ball hog who couldn’t win anything on his own until he got another all star big man to play along side with. Outside of maybe Kobe I haven’t seen the Lakers develop anyone.

by MrBungle on Mar 2, 2010 1:11 PM CST up reply actions  

When you're willing to pay

you don’t need to develop people. They’re like the Yankees in that regard. If JR isn’t going to pay, it’s more important to develop the guys with potential for us than it is for a team like LA.

Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."

by bigballa10 on Mar 2, 2010 1:14 PM CST up reply actions  

EXACTLY

Beasley spent the first two quarters like he was wandering through a forest.-Neil Funk

by SoulEater7 on Mar 2, 2010 1:27 PM CST up reply actions  

Slava Medvedenko?

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 2, 2010 1:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Who have the Yankees developed since Jeter? Robinson Cano?

Who gives a fuck when you can buy talent.

Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

by Ozzie Montana on Mar 2, 2010 2:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Derek fisher, Jordan farmar, Andrew bynum, trevor ariza, Shannon brown?

All key members of the lakers championship squad that developed with the lakers

by Poloplaya14 on Mar 2, 2010 2:43 PM CST up reply actions  

These guys weren't "developed"

These guys were key members of Lakers championship because they didn’t have to do as much as they would have had they landed on teams without one or two Hall of Famers. They get to safely play within a box in a way that guys can’t in crappy/mediocre teams.

by guaranteedcontract on Mar 2, 2010 6:42 PM CST up reply actions  

It's easy with Kobe and, for a while, Shaq

It’s easy to “put players in the best position to succeed” when you can afford to ask them to do only a few things. The Bulls did fine with that with the Scott Williams-types back when MJ was around.

by guaranteedcontract on Mar 2, 2010 8:05 PM CST up reply actions  

They still developed players

It may be easier for them than the rest of the league, but they still got it done.

by Poloplaya14 on Mar 2, 2010 9:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Andrew Bynum has been developed by the Lakers. Besides Kobe, he’s like.. the only one.

"Where are the FUCKING TWINKIES?"

by Dash2112 on Mar 2, 2010 8:28 PM CST up reply actions  

as do we

with Rose.

Bulls have signed just 2 players to extensions out of those lotto picks, Hinrich and Deng. Until this year they had zero all-star appearances out of the lot. I do admit I’m skewing with adding the Krause picks.

I guess we’re just debating development vs. the ceiling of the picks themselves. But that’s not a good end-result no matter the cause.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 2, 2010 10:52 AM CST up reply actions  

right on with the last two sentences

Like I said above, I think we’ve picked and developed fine (except for Tyrus, and I don’t think too many franchises would have done any different with him). The end result hasn’t been good because we haven’t cashed in when we should. Some of those guys should have been traded for other assets. That’s a different managerial issue, and more of an upper-level problem than coaching/development.

by guaranteedcontract on Mar 2, 2010 11:10 AM CST up reply actions  

Is that about development...

Or scouting? There were All-Stars picked behind guys the Bulls selected…perhaps its not the development of talent, rather the scouting of talent…

Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.

by Dionysus2.0 on Mar 2, 2010 4:24 PM CST up reply actions  

The Bulls can afford to have a non-scorer on the floor

It’s just that Kirk has the job locked up.

Oh, and Thabo is terrible.

by Sports2 on Mar 2, 2010 3:29 PM CST up reply actions  

He has no identity.

There’s nothing really that differentiates him from the pack. Right now, he’s probably the most generic NBA player out there. I think his best hope is to spend less time at the barbershop (it’s getting out of hand, he has a new ’do every other game) and more in the gym. I see no hope of him ever starting anywhere, so he needs to define himself as a specialist in some area…a defender or someone to put in the game when you need to cripple somebody (the MMA training has to be worth something).

hard pail lunch hat

by headphones on Mar 2, 2010 12:50 PM CST reply actions   2 recs

He just started somewhere...

Best case scenario is him turning into a Lamar odom type player. They share a lot of similar attributes.

by Poloplaya14 on Mar 2, 2010 2:47 PM CST up reply actions  

I liked what I saw of JJ last night.

The kid has handles, can bring the ball upcourt, and he has some crisp passing. He tends to camp out at the 3 point line and settle for open jumpers, but if he can make 45% of those, then he’ll find himself a niche in the NBA somewhere. I’m a little wary that he plays (and looks smaller) than his 6’9"/245 would suggest (He looked physically smaller than josh smith and marvin williams). He plays soft, but I can’t tell if that’s lack of physical strength, rookie awkwardness, or if that’s just his game – I’m hoping it’s just a little rookie awkwardness and he is not counting on ‘finesse’ to keep him in the NBA. The kid needs to hit the weights this summer with Noah and develop some post moves to complement his athleticism. This team don’t need another Brad Sellers. At least not yet.

At least a couple times last night, JJ took his man off the dribble, drove, and kicked out to… yes… Brad Miller behind the 3-point line. That’s right, Brad Miller behind the 3-point line. Yes, Brad Miller is shooting 29% from behind the arc compared to Rose’s 25%, but still, find someone else to kick out to, or take the ball all the way to the hole and get your ass fouled and to the line. JJ’s a good free throw shooter and needs to take advantage of that to help his team out.

I think the orver-arching theme of my JJ analysis is that he needs to toughen up and play a little more like a 6’9"/250 power forward – either that, or he’ll be bouncing around in this league before too long.

"The people we lost, I'm sad we lost them because they helped us. But the organization saw something in these players. They're going to help us. They don't have any attitude problems. They just want to ball." - Derrick Rose

by leeac on Mar 2, 2010 12:53 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

i

wrote that whole post, and didn’t take one dig at tyrus.

"The people we lost, I'm sad we lost them because they helped us. But the organization saw something in these players. They're going to help us. They don't have any attitude problems. They just want to ball." - Derrick Rose

by leeac on Mar 2, 2010 12:55 PM CST up reply actions  

Congratulations!

:)

Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!

by Prevenge on Mar 2, 2010 4:21 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't know if he's ever gonna be a true PF

He’s more of a hybrid forward that’s ideally suited to the 3 but is capable of playing the 4 in a smaller faster lineup. Again, I think he’s similar to Lamar odom.

by Poloplaya14 on Mar 2, 2010 2:49 PM CST up reply actions  

JJ

handles the ball in the open court extremely well for a 3. He looked absolutely lost at the start of the year, but has consistently improved. It’s tough to get him in, because the Bulls need Lu’s scoring and rebounding. He has the atheletic ability to be a good player. He should get time now so everyone can figure what he needs to work on this summer.

by El Toro de Goro on Mar 2, 2010 1:05 PM CST reply actions  

I really don't think it's tough to get him in at all

Vinny just chooses to go super small instead with Pargo. He should be subbing for Deng instead of a 3 guard lineup and even playing a little 4.

Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."

by bigballa10 on Mar 2, 2010 1:12 PM CST up reply actions  

you mean

you don’t like the new ‘ultra-small’ look with flip murray at the 4 and taj at center?

"The people we lost, I'm sad we lost them because they helped us. But the organization saw something in these players. They're going to help us. They don't have any attitude problems. They just want to ball." - Derrick Rose

by leeac on Mar 2, 2010 1:22 PM CST up reply actions  

Ha ha

Um…no.

Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."

by bigballa10 on Mar 2, 2010 2:42 PM CST up reply actions  

you said that already

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 2, 2010 1:48 PM CST up reply actions  

I know

I saw two fan posts on Hinrich’s terrible play, but I still felt that wasn’t enough…word must spread of the terribleness that is Kurt Hinrich

by DRose01 on Mar 2, 2010 2:13 PM CST up reply actions  

it means more when 'word' itself isn't terribleness as well.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 2, 2010 2:56 PM CST up reply actions  

i think he is rad

ShipTileDirect.com - Why pay expensive retail prices? When you can ShipTileDirect at a fraction of the cost.

by Jesse07 on Mar 2, 2010 4:23 PM CST reply actions  

Took a look at JJ's predraft measurements

If you look at his agility, bench, sprint, and max vert reach…he is essentially on par with Tyler Hansborough and DeJuan Blair. This makes Johnson a really strong, fairly athletic player. His body fat was up at 12%, which is not ideal, but so was Blair’s and he is doing well. His athleticism alone gives him decent upside. He also has solid handles and pretty decent court vision. This guy could be a pretty solid player IMO!

by DRose01 on Mar 2, 2010 4:35 PM CST reply actions  

The Bulls are too lovedrunk with Taj to play JJ anyway.

I happen to really like the kid. He could really be such a good and important player for us in the next few years if his skills grow. He’s a good dribbler for his size, he can hit threes, drive, he’s aggressive, one of the big negatives is him being 23 years old already and he was just a sophomore last year. I’d bet if JJ was 20 or 21 like most of the players in his class was, he’d have been a lottery pick.

Regardless, it seems the Bulls seem to have completely forgotten about JJ and have yet to give him significant minutes. They aren’t likely to do that and I won’t be surprised if he’s benched or traded in the next few years anyway.

"You know what Neil, stop being such a sourpuss." - Stacey King

by Scribbz on Mar 2, 2010 6:17 PM CST reply actions  

JJ is in trouble because he has no true position to me. A true tweener. He has handles,can shoot a bit, I’d like to see him learn to post up weaker 3s tho…. He could be like how Linas Kleiza was for the Nuggets. A 3/4 tweener who has bulk but can still shoot and give 10-12 pts/5 boards off the bench. If he could fill that role for us, I’d be happy.

by C Smoove on Mar 3, 2010 1:04 PM CST reply actions  

I think he's a natural 3, just not a great one

And I also would like to see him be able to consistently post up smaller guys so he can take advantage of being much bigger than most SFs.

by Poloplaya14 on Mar 3, 2010 3:51 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

play him

Hate List, 1. JR 2. Garpax 3. Deng 4. Kirt 5. VDN 6. Pat Riley 7. Pargo 8. The name Tyrus Thomas or he looks good in a headband 9. Kirt lovers that only support the Bulls because Kirt's from Iowa 10. The Luol Deng stat support group 11. Lindsey Hunter on the roster for almost 2 seasons 12. After a made Kirk Hinrich basket posting KIRK!!! 13. Luol Deng's same fake perplexed post game speech to reporters. 13. People who disagree with me just because they hate me. 14. VDN Timeouts. 15. Doug Thonus' picture drawling and that he lives in the neighboring town from me.(jk) 16. People that comment on my Deng/Hinrich hate, I can't help it SORRY!

by SoulEater7 on Mar 7, 2010 1:50 AM CST reply actions  

Interesting sig…that’s a lot of hate

Maybe a nice relaxing hobby would help?

by kingles on Mar 7, 2010 11:23 AM CST up reply actions  

Before we condem the org for not playing him

lest we forget that GarPax the Great wanted to rid us of Deng in favor of Al Jefferson and an inside game. This would put a void at SF that, unless he was going to fill that position with another trade, would have resulted in JJ being plugged into the starting lineup for the rest of the season. This might have resulted in GP the Great going another way with the Tyrus and (perhaps picking up a more natural 3 than ). What I inference (a shaky endeavor with the subject of the Bulls organization) is that Chicago would potentially be confident moving forward with Johnson at the 3, at least for the remainder of the season. They see him everyday in practice and his former college coach recommended he play SF… so maybe that is his future.

IMO he seems to have the skill set to develop into a solid starting SF. However, I think there are limited opportunities, especially on the Bulls, for a 6-9 235 athletic PF with no real back-to-the-basket game.

Chicago Bulls Management - Wasting millions on moronic rosters since 1999

by Another Afflicted Chicago Fan on Mar 15, 2010 4:55 PM CDT reply actions  

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Jazz Notes
Chris Herrington (Grizzlies)
Orlando Sentinel
Michael Lee (Wizards)
Alan Hahn (Knicks)   
Doug Smith (Raptors)
Marc Berman (Knicks)
Al Iannazzone (Nets)

For the Statheads:
Basketball-Reference.com
APBR Discussion
Knickerblogger's Stat Page
82Games.com
Doug's Stats
Popcorn Machine
HoopData


Other Resources:

HoopsHype Salaries
SportsTwo Salaries
ESPN.com Trade Machine
RealGM: NBA Draftpicks Owed
ShamSports.com Salaries
DraftExpress

 


Guy who does everything

Blogabull_s_small your friendly BullsBlogger