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Trade Deadline Deals GAME


Hey guys,

Each year I think of a ton of trade ideas for the trade deadline for the Bulls but each year they pull off a trade that i didn't see coming. 

2 years ago = Ben wallace, Larry Hughes for Drew Gooden, Tim Thomas, Jerome James

Last year = Nocioni + Gooden for Salmons + Miller AND Sefolosha for 1st rounder

So, I propose that if you have an ORIGINAL trade idea post it on this site to see if we can pick an exact trade.  You cannot post a trade idea that has been proposed yet.  Also, give brief explaination. 

After the trade deadline we can look back and see if any of us pick it correctly (if the bulls even have the balls to make a trade). 

FanPosts are user-created posts from the BlogABull community, and are to be treated as the opinions and views of that particular user, not that of the blogger or blog community as a whole.

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Bulls/Nets

Bulls get: CDR, Bobby Simmons
Nets get: Tyrus Thomas, John Salmons

Why: NJ has a low post scorer in Lopez, Tyrus would compliment him well. They are also looking to trade Simmons. Trading Salmons for simmons would save Bulls money for this summer free agency.

by K_yle33 on Feb 7, 2010 10:38 PM CST reply actions  

Tyrus for CDR, Jarvis Hayes, Josh Boone

Almost exactly the same salary. We get three guys who can, at least theoretically, play for us.

by Sports2 on Feb 7, 2010 10:53 PM CST up reply actions  

I got a few

Tyrus Thomas for Marquis Daniels + Eddie House
Tyrus Thomas for Marquis Daniels + Tony Allen
Tyrus Thomas for Marquis Daniels + Brian Scalabrine

by Poloplaya14 on Feb 7, 2010 11:22 PM CST reply actions  

Also

Kirk Hinrich + Tyrus Thomas for Zydrunas Ilgauskas + Leon Powe + Jawad Williams

by Poloplaya14 on Feb 7, 2010 11:24 PM CST up reply actions  

You may be a TT hater

But TT value around the league is above that for sure

by JustAnotherFan on Feb 8, 2010 6:22 AM CST up reply actions  

4 teamer

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yjermrr

Bulls trade: Brad Miller, Tyrus, Jerome James and 1st round pick (loto protected)

Bulls Get: Kevin Martin, Yi Jianlian, Tony Battie

Blazers Trade:

Andre Miller, Travis Outlaw

Blazers Get: Brad Miller

Kings Trade: Kevin Martin

Kings Get: Tyrus Thomas, Andre Miller + Bulls Pick

Nets Trade: Tony Battie, Yi Jianlian

Nets Get: Jerome James, Travis Outlaw

Why the Bulls do it: I’m against the 2010 plan in general, as the last time the Bulls saved capspace worked out awesome (Ron Mercer). This gets us a legit 3 pt threat and scoring option to pair with Rose without giving up anyone who wasn’t gone after this year. Battie sucks, but he should be ok for about 10 minutes a game backing up Noah, and he is an expiring. I don’t like Yi very much, but he seems like he would fit Vinny’s system well; a big who can hit an outside shot.

Why the Blazers do it: Brad Miller gives the Blazers the legit center they need given their injuries. Andre Miller never made sense with Roy, and Outlaw didn’t fit in their rotation.

Why the Kings do it: Their two best players (Evans and Martin) play the same position. They get an experienced PG, a free shot at Tyrus, and a pick to build around

Why the Nets do it: $$$$ James salary is insured, so they save 5 mil there, and they wipe Yi off their books for next year and give them more money to go after the vaunted 2010 class. They also get Outlaw for free, and he should be back by early March.

Get to the Choppa!

by Fred Hoiberg on Feb 7, 2010 11:43 PM CST reply actions  

Actually the last tiem the Bulls saved capspace we got Ben Wallace who, despite his steep and fast decline, was the best FA on the market.

The worst case scenario of the 2010 plan would be getting Carlos Boozer or Joe Johnson, and I’d take either one of those guys over Kevin Martin.

And this trade would be beyond bad for the Blazers. Andre miller is far more productive than Brad Miller at this point in his career, and the Blazers aren’t trying to free up cap space for next year, so this trade is very counter-productive for them.

by Poloplaya14 on Feb 8, 2010 12:24 AM CST up reply actions  

Well, that sort of proves my point

The Bulls will either whiff or overpay in 2010. Why would a top free agent come play for a dysfunctional organization like Chicago?

I like Joe Johnson too, but I don’t think he is a max player, and the Bulls will have to overpay to get him to leave Atlanta imo.

I really don’t like Boozer, not only did the guy take advantage of a blind man, but he’s injury prone and doesn’t play much D. I would much prefer Martin to Boozer.

I actually think this trade makes sense for Portland. Blake and Bayless can hold the fort at PG until next year, and while the Blazers aren’t “all in” for 2010, cap space is still a useful asset. It seemed to me like they signed Miller just to use their cap space last off season; this gives them a do-over on that.

Get to the Choppa!

by Fred Hoiberg on Feb 8, 2010 8:26 AM CST up reply actions  

Yes but this time if we land the best FA on the market, we'll have LeBron James, and not Ben Wallace

And what makes you think Kevin Martin is any less likely to decline than Boozer or Johnson. You’re taking on a risk either way.

by Poloplaya14 on Feb 8, 2010 7:30 PM CST up reply actions  

If salaries were equal, I would rather have JJ or Boozer.

The Bulls bid against themselves for Wallace; its not like he had the huge interest that the 2010 class has generated.

For starters, Martin has 3 less seasons than JJ and 2 less than Boozer. Another is that he would be on a 3 year deal (after this current deal), rather than the 5 years Boozer and JJ will likely command. I’m very afraid of long term deals that kill franchises (like the Wallace deal, or Arenas, or Webber, etc), especially for a team like the Bulls who refuse to pay the tax.

I’m not saying Martin > JJ. Kevin has his own history of injuries. However, Martin would be on a much more reasonable salary than either of those. I think Martin is on the hook for around 9-10 mil a year, when he should be entering his prime. JJ is almost 30, and obviously I would rather have him, but I would prefer Martin for half the price.

If the Bulls do sign Boozer, I will be very depressed. He’s got a laundry list of injuries, and the nagging kind.

Get to the Choppa!

by Fred Hoiberg on Feb 8, 2010 8:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Bulls become worse

Kevin Martin and Jianlian are both bad defenders
and why give up on the chance to add Bosh

by MJ5 on Feb 8, 2010 9:43 PM CST up reply actions  

Worse on D?

Then we were by losing a player who is already out the door (Tyrus) and Brad Miller, who is about as quick as molassas?

I guess I’m a pessimist, but why would Bosh pass up on the chance to play in South Beach with DWade or NY or NJ with Lebron? I admit, I would be so pumped if the Bulls could get Bosh, but it also leaves the Bulls with a realistic possibility of a whiff.

Get to the Choppa!

by Fred Hoiberg on Feb 9, 2010 8:31 AM CST up reply actions  

why does the record only have to do with Hinrich?

Rose and Salmons started to play better. Tyrus returned from injury. Why are we attributing all the success to a guy with a PER of 10 and a fg% under 40

by Basketball Smurf on Feb 8, 2010 12:00 PM CST up reply actions  

*It doesn’t, all the examples you give play a role. *

Starting Hinrich has played a role in Rose and Salmons playing better though. Salmons has benfitted by coming off the bench. He gets to play more against reserve SG’s, and probably more important he get to play more at SF which seems to be a better fit for him.

Rose benefits by having some ball handling and pressure to set up teammates taken off of him. Kirk can also help Derrick with tough defensive assignments, something which Salmons can’t really do. Salmons frequently doesn’t seem to realize that Derrick is THE MAN. Kirk is rightly willing to defer to him. These things help Derrick to be in a position to work his magic.
 
Kirk’s contributions can’t really be accurately measured by PER. While PER is primarily an offensive stat, it does take into account things like steals and blocks. This is not Kirk’s primary defensive contribution though. While Kirk does get his share of steals, he forces FAR more turnovers than his steal totals indicate. When Kirk strips the ball from his man, and it say bounces to Deng(for example), Deng gets the steal. This happens A LOT. Kirk also forces a TON of bad shots, they’re not blocks, but they’re almost as good.
Even the way Kirk just continually hassles his man causes him to expend far more effort to try to get his points than against a lesser defender.

The shooting percenteage I have no arguement for, obvoiusly he is streaky. He can’t finish very well at the hoop, so he doesn’t get the easy baskets that could boost his shooting % when his jumpshot isn’t falling.

by kingles on Feb 9, 2010 2:30 AM CST up reply actions  

But the main reason they've played better is shooting %. Other than Rose stepping it up.

Rose is playing better because he’s finally healed from that early season injury. At least that’s the story, and it looks believable if you see the way he was running at times early in the season. You don’t see any hobbles like that these days.

Hinrich and Salmons just seem to be shooting better (Miller too). I doubt starting or not has made that difference.

It’s not like if you start Salmons tomorrow he’ll go back to shooting a god awful % again. It’s not like bringing Hinrich off the bench will result in him shooting 16% from 3 or whatever horrible number he had earlier in the season. Shooting is streaky.

Do some “test trials” when you only have a 38% chance of succeeding. You’ll go on some horrendous runs. It’s called variance, and it comes in both good and bad forms.

Now, changing the lineups may have an impact, but I don’t see a huge noticeable impact from what was changed. All of your points sound OK in theory, but you act as if Hinrich was never playing any minutes at all before he started, and that Salmons is not playing any minutes now.

A good argument for the defensive side is “John Salmons is a small forward, not a guard.” Playing a guard at the 2 is probably a better idea than playing a middle aged (for NBA) SF. Think Paul Pierce can guard quick 2s? Not a chance. But he can play good D against many 3s.

Yea, VDN is finally playing people at the right position, and it just shows our gaping hole for not having a true SG on the team (Pargo doesn’t count, he’s like the 5th guard on most legitimate teams). That’s what happens when you round out the rotation with Pargo and Hunter though. You already eat a roster spot with an injured player (James), a big useless body (Gray) and then bench one of your decent player (TT). How many guys are we down to? Why does this team struggle so mightily sometimes and play so well other times? No depth, people playing out of position and inexperienced players playing a ton of minutes.

by RyPac13 on Feb 9, 2010 1:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Rose is good because he’s good, naturally his ankle trouble had an impact on his early struggles. I do not mean to imply he’s playing well because of Hinrich, but rather that Hinrich will defer to Rose especially at crunch time(unlike Salmons). Hinrichs’ presence in the lineup with Rose allows Rose to play off the ball more. As Rose himself said, he feels more comfortable being aggresive with his scoring when he plays off the ball.

 I understand your point that Hinrich and Salmons still play significant minutes regardless of which one is starting(before Salmons was in the mid 30’s and Hinrich in the high 20’s, now they’re reversed). This way though Rose and Hinrich play a lot more minutes TOGETHER, this is what I wanted. When Salmons plays SG, now it is more frequently with Hinrich at the point. In this scenario I don’t mind Salmons endless jabsteps quite so much. He’s not keeping the ball away from a better option . What I do not like is him often keeping the ball out of Rose’s hands when they’re on the floor together.

Having two point guards on the floor does help the Bulls get more transition baskets, and better shots in the half court. Part of the increase in FG% is related to this, although movement towards career norms was to be expected.

Having said all this, the Bulls need a true SG to take the next step. Hinrich is a point guard, forced into the role by the lack of anybody else who is decent at it. It’s more a condemnation of the other potential options than how great Hinrich is as SG. He’s too small, he struggles to finish at the hoop, his shot is inconsistant, etc., yet he is the best they have right now. Hopefully they’ll take care of that situation, but until then…

by kingles on Feb 10, 2010 12:22 AM CST up reply actions  

I think the key isn't more Rose-Hinrich, but less Salmons-Deng

When Salmons and Deng are on the court together, you essentially have two guys out there who like to play in the high post and hold the ball a little too long, which takes the ball out of Rose’s hands.

by Poloplaya14 on Feb 10, 2010 1:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Yes, but there is only one player the Bulls have who can break up the Salmons-Deng combo…Hinrich.

by kingles on Feb 10, 2010 1:33 PM CST up reply actions  

I know

That’s what I’m saying. Kirk starting = less Salmons-Deng

by Poloplaya14 on Feb 11, 2010 12:12 AM CST up reply actions  

The

basketballs have to be leather, not that rubber SH!T

by QUINTEN DALEY on Feb 8, 2010 10:41 AM CST up reply actions  

I would say that correlation implies that there was at least SOME causation, as things never just ‘happen mysteriously’. Plus since I had said long before that replacing Salmons in the starting lineup with Hinrich would help the Bulls win…. I certainly believe there is some causation.

by kingles on Feb 9, 2010 1:35 AM CST up reply actions  

Hmm...

I’ll go with Hinrich, TT, Salmons to Boston for Ray Allen and Marquis Daniels…this is probably just a wet dream, but I can hope.

by DRose01 on Feb 8, 2010 9:00 AM CST reply actions  

Wishful thinking

Guaranteed cap space, plus a possible starting 2-guard…

Will never happen…

by kingj41 on Feb 8, 2010 10:30 AM CST reply actions  

That would be cool

Cuban is rumored to be fed up and willing to ditch Josh Howard.
But not sure how sold he would be on a wildcard like Tyrus, and too bad Salmons hasn’t been shooting like he has lately all season long….

All your base are belong to Vinny.

by BCs71 on Feb 8, 2010 2:18 PM CST up reply actions  

I see +1 for Dallas

-6 wins for Chicago

Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."

by bigballa10 on Feb 9, 2010 2:34 PM CST up reply actions  

How 'bout

Kings/Bulls/Celts trade:

Bulls send Hinrich to Boston; TT & Jerome James to Sacto.

Sacto sends Kevin Martin to Boston

Boston sends Ray Allen to Chicago…

OR..

Bulls Send Hinrich and James to Boston straight up for Ray Allen

Bulls send Salmons and Tyrus to NJ for Simmons and CDR…

by Carlitro on Feb 8, 2010 3:10 PM CST reply actions  

Boston will not get rid of Ray allen

by rick_ross on Feb 8, 2010 3:59 PM CST reply actions  

Consider the alternative...

Ray Allen (and his knees) come off the books at the end of the 2010 season. They retain Allen’s Bird rights, but his trade value is gone and they’re still over the cap, whether they sign him to a cheaper contract or not. They aren’t trading Pierce (face of the franchise). They couldn’t trade KG (and his knees). Boston so totally is going to trade Ray Ray (assuming the deal makles them better). No question about it. If they want to improve they trade him. bwahahaha!

by Carlitro on Feb 8, 2010 5:53 PM CST up reply actions  

The Only trade i would go for is

Bulls trade: Hinrich (maybe draft pick)
Orlando Trade : Bass, Reddick, Johnson

Bulls could send reddick back to orlando

by rick_ross on Feb 8, 2010 4:01 PM CST reply actions  

sam smith

recommended this trade. At this point i would be fine with any trade that clears CAP space and/or gets a superstar.

by K_yle33 on Feb 8, 2010 4:40 PM CST up reply actions  

I had this trade too...

But I decided against posting it. That deal really makes no sense for Orlando to do. Given Orlando’s swollen payroll, and it isn’t going to shrink anytime soon with their glut of longterm deals, Kirk represents too expensive of an item to be a backup.

Get to the Choppa!

by Fred Hoiberg on Feb 8, 2010 8:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Why i think it could work

orlando arnt even using Bass that much…waiste of 5 mill…They might aswell get rid of him and get a player that they will actually fit into the rotation. But yes u do have a point about payroll. Will orlando want to spend etra 4 million for Hinrich?

by rick_ross on Feb 8, 2010 8:41 PM CST up reply actions  

It isn't just 4 mil...

its 8 per year when you factor in the tax, and with the cap and 2 years more of that, I think it would be a pretty reckless move on Orlando’s part.

Get to the Choppa!

by Fred Hoiberg on Feb 9, 2010 8:47 AM CST up reply actions  

Three years of Brandon Bass?

Sell me some of that $hit ur smokin’…

by Carlitro on Feb 8, 2010 5:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Bass makes about the same as tyrus and we get rid of Kirks contract

It wont be a huge solution but its a trade where both teams benefit and is actually realistic compared to some of the other stuff ive seen

by rick_ross on Feb 8, 2010 6:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Since I took the time to do the trade machine and think a little in another thread

I’ll post it here also.
Hinrich & Tyrus trade for Finley & Ginobli

Bulls get two guys who expire after this year and can contribute this year.
Also shed Kurt and rid themselves of the malcontent Tyrus, save a tad over a million bucks this season. Clears pretty decent cap space for the summer.

Spurs get rid of Finley who sucks this year and Ginobli’s contract situation (while acquiring a guard in Kurt for the next couple of years, Tim Duncan’s window to win is running out), and Tyrus is their defensive wild card and toughness for playoff run. Could anchor Duncan and Blair pretty well down low.
Not that Kurt guarantees the Spurs a win… but likely the Spurs won’t win it all this year anyway, but this deal may be better than what Ginobli shows he has left in the tank this year.

All your base are belong to Vinny.

by BCs71 on Feb 8, 2010 11:11 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

Luol Deng for Josh Howard. and a cheap guard and/or 1st rounder

If we like Howard, we keep him for the same price Deng cost us. We get a legitimate backup PG. We can throw in Pargo or a cheap filler to make salaries match perfectly if needed.

We get a pick to deal or utilize this summer.

What more? We get out of Deng’s long, growing contract. If Salmons opts in, we can play him at SF, and we have another 11 mil to spend on a FA for the SG and PF position. We can likely afford a combination of Lee/Joe Johnson even if Bosh and Wade fall through.

A lineup of Noah, Lee, Salmons, JJ, Rose and probably enough left to at least fill in the bench pieces along with Taj and Hinrich. We can also more easily deal Hinrich this offseason or early next season to solidify the bench with his 8m contract. Hinrich will only have 2 years (minus however late into the season we are) on his contract then.

Mavs do it because they value Deng over Howard, they aren’t going to pick up his team option after this season and they don’t penny pinch. They get better this year and have a solid 3 from here on out. Deng is a good defender who may be forced to play more on the block with Dirk taking mid range shots. All the better, as Deng excels particularly when he’s aggressive on offense, something our coaches don’t seem to force him to do often enough.

by RyPac13 on Feb 9, 2010 1:59 PM CST reply actions  

Camby, Telfiar and 5m more in expiring deals for Deng and Tyrus.

The other 5m in expiring deals can be some combination of Madsen/Smith/Skinner/Davis/Butler.

The Bulls have a real PF for the rest of this season, and one that can play a bit of center too when Miller is lagging (or if Noah doesn’t heal right away).

The SF spot is replaced by Salmons. We get a guard that can at least crack the rotation (Telfair) and we just buyout anybody else we can’t utilize in this deal.

We get rid of Tyrus, whom the org seems to hate, and we get out of Deng’s contract, which loses value as the cap is reduced (imagine what we can get for Deng’s 11m salary this offseason).

LA does this because they immediately improve. Tyrus might actually play well in the up tempo that Baron Davis is now running with Dunleavy out. Deng obviously fills a nice hole at 3 guard for them (They have the center, they will have the PF next year with Blake and they have the guards in Davis and Gordon). Next year they will now have a legitimate starting lineup, with Tyrus either resigned, qualified or cut. They get rid of Telfair and his possibility of opting in for 2.7 mil and they are just much better balanced.

by RyPac13 on Feb 9, 2010 2:06 PM CST reply actions  

What about T-Mac? Bold trade idea (kind of)

If we’re going to get a former all-star SG to start this year and come off the books next year (and possibly re-sign for a smaller contract), i’d prefer T-Mac to Ray. The Rockets have much more incentive to trade T-Mac than the Celtics do Allen, and T-Mac wont throw a hissy fit until he is bought out so that he can go sign with his former team, like Allen probably would.

We offer Tyrus Thomas, Luol Deng (gasp), and Jerome James to the Houston Rockets for Tracy McGrady and Chase Buddinger.

Hear me out. Yes, the loss of Luol would suck, but if the Bulls do make a cap clearing move, it’s probably going to be either him or Kirk anyway. We get Tracy McGrady and his gigantic expiring contract. That puts us more than in position to make a large offer to a top tier free agent, as well as gives us the option to re sign T-Mac at a lower cost deal if he really works out for us well.

T-Mac wouldn’t have to worry about the dribble-drive nearly as much with Rose handling the Ball, and he could depend on Rose to set him up for open jump shots, and could get himself under the basket without dribbling as well. (Basically taking Luol’s role).This would help space the floor, and would take some defensive pressure off of Rose, because defenses would have to respect him simply because his name is Tracy McGrady, and the fact that he wouldnt have to handle as much, nor would he be the focus of the offense, would help him avoid injury.

McGrady would start at SF with Hinrich still at SG, and when T-Mac came out, Salmons would continue his role as 6th man. This move would also enable us to bring back Salmons (who the Bulls do like) next year for the bench (or to start, depending on who we sign, if we bring T-Mac back, and other factors), without it keeping us from offering a max deal. It doesn’t, however, force us to bring back Salmons because we would also be getting Budinger.

Budinger is a younger player who could fill Salmons’s role off of the bench nicely. He’s not the 3-point threat that Salmons can be at times, but he also has time to develop and the 3-point shot is usually one of the later things that come to players after college, unless they are a 3-point sharp shooter ala Brandon Jennings. Budinger will only improve. He is on a 3-year deal, but it is extremley cheap and he’d be a bargain.

We would have T-Mac’s 21 million coming off the books at the end of the year, in addition to what we already have. That would be more than enough to offer a max contract to anybody, and still have enough remaining to re-sign the players we’d like to keep, and get one more additional free agent or two before hitting the danger zone.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yzjrynx

Your thoughts?

Why aren't they selling Rose's all star jersey?

by hongydraw on Feb 9, 2010 4:53 PM CST reply actions  

Forgot to put what the team would look like next year, potentially.

If this were to happen, among many other possible scenarios, 2010-2011 opening day roster could be:

Derrick Rose
Kirk Hinrich
Tracy McGrady
Chris Bosh
Joakim Noah

Taj Gibson
James Johnson
John Salmons
Chase Budinger
1st Rounder
2nd Rounder

Why aren't they selling Rose's all star jersey?

by hongydraw on Feb 9, 2010 5:03 PM CST up reply actions  

You don't need to apologize for giving away anybody for expirings.

With the cap shrinking and the CBA that will at best phase in a more restrictive salary structure, players with big contracts that aren’t performing great are vastly poor values.

I know I probably sound like a broken record, but for Deng’s 11 mil or Hinrich’s 8 mil, you can get vastly superior talent (and you have choices on who you get to put around Rose) for that money this summer.

The point is, if Deng somehow got out of his contract this summer, as well as Hinrich, they would not get 11 and 8 mil each. It would probably be closer to 8-9 and 4-6. That’s called a bad value, even if you like Deng and Hinrich.

So in theory, just trading them for expirings should give us a net positive result this summer. I’m not saying that’s the best play out there, but I can’t really see how it could be labeled as a terrible one. It’s just the economics of the situation.

When you throw in an owner that won’t go into the tax, that makes our per player value that much more important, which should make trading those bad value contracts for expirings even more of a good play.

It’s a lot to grasp, especially for the casual fan. The idea of trading away Deng or Hinrich for expiring deals is probably too much for many to fathom.

If it helps, think about a player you dislike that is being paid a lot of money but is still decent. Sam Dalembert, perhaps. I believe he makes around 12m now. He’s probably not worth more than 6-8 mil at most. So if you can get Boozer for 12m in the offseason, wouldn’t it make sense to trade Dalembert away now for expiring contracts and pick up Boozer with the money you saved?

The same principle can be applied to Deng or Hinrich. Unfortunately, I suspect our management will not trade away Hinrich for expiring contracts, they will want more and it will end up in them not pulling the trigger for anything but Salmons or Tyrus. We’ll see though, they surprised us last year with a very good basketball trade.

by RyPac13 on Feb 9, 2010 6:47 PM CST reply actions  

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