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Around SBN: The Gift Of The 2003 Tigers

[From the FanShots. KC makes some solid points, and the conclusion is accurate: it's over now, but the Bulls could've handled this year much better. -ed.]

"But part of successful coaching is managing personalities. When Thomas came off the bench to average 16 points, 10.3 rebounds and two blocks in 30.3 minutes in his first three games back from injury in late December, the time to start him and allow him to play through some mistakes arrived.

Instead, Thomas came off the bench to play just 15 foul-plagued minutes on Jan. 2 against Orlando. He has played more than 30 minutes just once since — on Jan. 20 at the Clippers — and tallied 18 points, six rebounds and three blocks while doing so."

about 2 years ago Smurfs-wars-hefty_tiny Basketball Smurf 183 comments 3 recs  | 

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Good article from KC

I think that’s a pretty accurate summary. The time to win with Tyrus was when he came back. Coach Vinny and the rest wanted no party of him, and at this point it’s too late.

Here’s hoping we can get something, anything for him. I keep seeing that the Nets wanna trade Chris Douglas-Roberts.

by Sports2 on Feb 7, 2010 9:43 PM CST reply actions  

reuniting CDR and Rose would be pretty fun.

It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147

by fundamentallysound on Feb 7, 2010 10:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Agreed.

CDR is probably pretty fed up with the Nets at this point anyways, they stopped playing him because they’re idiots.

Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!

by Prevenge on Feb 8, 2010 6:11 PM CST up reply actions  

If you read his Twitter

he’s a pretty outspoken guy and is always getting into it on there with “haters.” After this Tyrus debacle, I somehow doubt he’d be a guy the Org. would want around.

Thrusting toward the playoffs, one game at a time.

by Illini15 on Feb 8, 2010 6:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, I do read his Twitter.

… That’s true. He’s fiery, and he gets angry when he’s losing. Yeah, I guess the Bulls are retards and don’t like good players. I forgot that, thanks for reminding me. I don’t know how I forgot that in a TT thread, but I did.

Go Rockets!

Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!

by Prevenge on Feb 8, 2010 10:35 PM CST up reply actions  

would a team really trade for Tyrus knowing the Bulls have no intention of resigning him?

couldn’t New Jersey just keep CDR and offer Tyrus a contract in the summer? I think he is going to end up in NY or NJ next season, but not by trade

by Basketball Smurf on Feb 7, 2010 10:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Well they would be able to make him an RFA

Don’t know if the Nets want to do that, but some teams might be willing.

"I skim a LOT of what gets said here
in a race to put in a smirky retort."
-your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 16, 2009 4:52 PM EDT

by Jamaicanpi on Feb 7, 2010 10:17 PM CST up reply actions  

a wing who might run with rose would be great. i love this deal, and any others that

get the bulls players who stand a chance of being better in 2 years than they are now.

"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."

by TheMoon on Feb 7, 2010 11:01 PM CST up reply actions  

That has its advantages

such as future Bird rights and giving something in return to avoid accumulating salaries

by JustAnotherFan on Feb 8, 2010 10:46 AM CST up reply actions  

At this point

I can only see teams offering a second round pick.

"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."

- fundamentallysound

by J Theory on Feb 8, 2010 11:53 AM CST up reply actions  

i was actually thinking about a trade with NJ

because they have a slow, low post, scoring C in Brook Lopez and Tyrus would go well to compliment him.
Also, the nets are wanting to trade bobby simmons exp contract. How bout Salmons, Tyrus for Simmons, CDR?

by K_yle33 on Feb 7, 2010 10:20 PM CST up reply actions  

At least they'll get "cap space".

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on Feb 8, 2010 8:36 AM CST up reply actions  

I have a feeling he'll succeed on another team.

I know the more he plays the better he gets.

Beasley spent the first two quarters like he was wondering through a forest.-Neil Funk

by SoulEater7 on Feb 7, 2010 9:47 PM CST reply actions  

I still have my doubts about whether Tyrus will ever be

a championship caliber starting power forward, ok, major doubts, but I still would have at least like to seen him play a bit more just to raise his trade value so we can get something for him before he leaves… guess not.

Neil takes the fun out of funk

by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 7, 2010 10:18 PM CST reply actions  

Wow...

You still doubt he can be a championship caliber starting power forward…and I still doubt if Tyrus will ever be a starting caliber power forward.

Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.

by Dionysus2.0 on Feb 8, 2010 8:20 AM CST up reply actions  

He's starting caliber for the Bulls. Just like Gordon was.

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on Feb 8, 2010 8:37 AM CST up reply actions  

Ha.

Ben Gordon can’t start for the Pistons (2nd worst team in the East) and barely started half the time for the Bulls…but its not about BG.

Tyrus simply has not shown that he is a starting caliber anything…

Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.

by Dionysus2.0 on Feb 8, 2010 8:46 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Yeah

Tyrus is better off the bench, And as much as he drives me crazy and disappoints me he should get more than 15 minutes. .

by T.Moore on Feb 8, 2010 10:09 AM CST up reply actions  

He gives instant energy just like BG.

Off the bench. He is NOT a starting PF he is a good bench/energy guy. He has no post up moves and he seems uncomfortable on the post. That’s why besides as long as he plays more than 15 minutes why should it matter as long as he should get his minutes. Which he is not.

by T.Moore on Feb 8, 2010 10:41 AM CST up reply actions  

I thought Thomas was lazy and didn't give energy.

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on Feb 8, 2010 10:47 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

I never said that he was lazy.

With his dunking ability, he is a great energy guy. but he’s not a starter just a good bench player.

by T.Moore on Feb 8, 2010 10:52 AM CST up reply actions  

ok

great dunking ability. Which i want to see more out of him.

by T.Moore on Feb 8, 2010 11:06 AM CST up reply actions  

It is not like our starter is much better T.Moore

Taj
8.2 ppg (48%FG) 6.4 rpg 1.1 bpg 0.6spg 0.7 apg 1.2 TOpg in 25 minutes per game

TT
8.5 ppg (46%FG) 6.2 rpg 1.7 bpg 1.3 spg 1.0 apg 1.8 TOpg in 22.5 minutes per game

by JustAnotherFan on Feb 8, 2010 11:08 AM CST up reply actions  

ha.
Ben Gordon can’t start for the Pistons

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on Feb 8, 2010 10:20 AM CST up reply actions   2 recs

um, D2.0 sucks. y'all forgot?

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 8, 2010 11:06 AM CST up reply actions   2 recs

I had...

I need an ignore poster option under the actions menu. Turn all those user’s comments red.

by kingj41 on Feb 8, 2010 11:07 AM CST up reply actions  

wouldnt they stick out more then?

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!

by piccolomair on Feb 8, 2010 12:22 PM CST up reply actions  

Actually,

I just tab down with the ‘z’ button, so if a comment were red I would simply ‘z’ right past it w/o reading it.
I also am not as active here during football season so when I do start visiting more I have to again learn who to ignore and who has valuable input.

by kingj41 on Feb 8, 2010 12:48 PM CST up reply actions  

ah

good point i think u can email the techs and they might implement such a system, im sure yfbb would enjoy it….

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!

by piccolomair on Feb 8, 2010 5:37 PM CST up reply actions  

Do you think Tyrus has shown that he could start on any team in this league?

Well, maybe he could start on the pistons.

Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.

by Dionysus2.0 on Feb 8, 2010 4:13 PM CST up reply actions  

i think he could start on.... the bulls.

"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."

by TheMoon on Feb 8, 2010 5:10 PM CST up reply actions  

"credible player"

in other words, an invisible cipher.

"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."

by TheMoon on Feb 8, 2010 10:08 PM CST up reply actions  

He can start on the nets.

They really need him more than we do.

by T.Moore on Feb 8, 2010 6:43 PM CST up reply actions  

that part at the end of the article where he says thomas told the trib "I dont like males telling

me what to do". wow. what an astoundingly unfortunate trait for a professional athlete to have. presumably the bulls knew this about thomas as these teams really do their homework on their picks. id like to know what the bulls plan was for dealing with a guy with this regrettable emotional attribute. did they have one? did they think just knowing about it was good enough and slightly customizing their treatment of him was unnecessary?

"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."

by TheMoon on Feb 8, 2010 12:13 AM CST reply actions  

yeah i'm not sure what's up with that.

they have to do psychological tests and all that shit at draft time. wouldn’t a statement like that be a huge red flag?

and not only that, but that’s pretty sad. while i don’t like all of his behavior, i feel bad for tyrus.

"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"

by Jaina on Feb 8, 2010 12:18 AM CST up reply actions  

He's got issues.

I saw him in person once and I felt like there was something odd about the guy. Like ADD. Or just some kinda trust issue.

Beasley spent the first two quarters like he was wondering through a forest.-Neil Funk

by SoulEater7 on Feb 8, 2010 1:32 AM CST up reply actions  

I've always thought he seemed like kind of a a weird dude.

Distant, aloof, etc.

Thrusting toward the playoffs, one game at a time.

by Illini15 on Feb 8, 2010 11:31 AM CST up reply actions  

i've met tyrus in person (last yr)

before game 4 of the celtics series. he wasn’t friendly at all, he signed my jersey but was visibly ticked off about it, almost annoyed. when i told him “good luck today tyrus” no response, like he didn’t want to be there. quite frankly, he came across as incredibly antisocial.

with all that said he’s still my second favorite player on the team after Rose, and watching this all unfold is killing me because i know what he is capable of and i know why the Bulls are doing this, and i can’t blame tyrus for reaching a breaking point. i stand behind him 100%, to the end.

i was on the lamarcus bandwagon during draft time and was extremely ticked we traded him for TT, but after the first game of the year when Tyrus came out and went bonkers in that first game against the Heat, I was on the bandwagon for good.

this makes me incredibly sad.

"4 inches, baby!" --ripped off from Kush

by anorexorcist on Feb 8, 2010 12:17 PM CST up reply actions  

about the incident above

i dont think its a telling sign of ones personality, i consider myself to be a pretty friendly guy, but if you sat me in front of thousands and thousands of people who i dont know but act like they know me, and i have to sit in a chair signing my name a million times, well id hate it myself.

I saw kirk at a circuit city a few years ago, and he had the same sort demeanor, like damn i dont want to be here…i dont think its THAT farfetched to imagine these people being just normal people. Sure guys like Dwight howard relish the fandom, but that brief moment doesnt determine how good or bad a person one is. Jordan shuns people for autographs all the time, having his lackeys deal with them, i think the rapper kameleon (is that how he spells it) on his facebook talked about how jordan told him to get the hell out of his face when he asked jordan for an autograph (my brother was telling me the story), by all accounts that should make jordan horrible person (he probably is) but that still has no bearing on how he played the game and came off in the media during his hey day..

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!

by piccolomair on Feb 8, 2010 12:28 PM CST up reply actions  

i dont either

let me explain it a little better. i was in the stadium, watching him, rose, gordon and salmons shoot around before the game. this was after game 3. honestly, tyrus was probably ticked off about the loss. all the players walked in our direction and they all started signing the 10-11 fans’ items that were there with me.

salmons and gordon seemed receptive enough, rose was his usual quiet self. tyrus was just upset. it was probably about the game. but i added my comments of “good luck” because he seemed down about it. it didn’t work, i’ve also heard a similar story from bulls fan “HINRICH POLICE” who didn’t meet him during a game, but during a bulls public relations lunch/dinner event and tyrus seemed to be as surly to him as he was to me (and HP is one of the nicest bulls fans there is).

my guess is that the way the media and the org and quite frankly, most bulls fans have treated him unfairly over his play on the court has led him to become extremely jaded and bitter towards pretty much everyone and anything. like i said, i dont blame tyrus for anything and i dont think he is a “douche” at all as people suggested i was implying below. it’s just an observation that he came across as very unfriendly and antisocial to me, and to others. my conclusion is that perhaps he lumps all of us fans together with the media and everyone else that has ragged on him over the years.

if so, that’s his right. i’m still a huge fan and any time anyone brings up anything about his character, i will be the first to quickly point them in the direction of all the charity work tyrus has done over the years.

i just wish tyrus knew/realized how much support he has from some of us despite this unfair barrage of attacks from all angles. thats all. maybe that would give him more confidence/motivation or something. i dont know.

"4 inches, baby!" --ripped off from Kush

by anorexorcist on Feb 8, 2010 1:47 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree!

And to add to it, I just wish that Tyrus realized just how frigging good he can be if he just accepted his skillset. He could be STAT of the eastern conference, All Star appearances and all if he just played within his game and put forth consistent effort.

by kozzer on Feb 8, 2010 1:53 PM CST up reply actions  

i didn't mean to imply

necessarily that you thought ty was a douche, i was just saying some people form opinions too quickly from meeting a guy for 5 minutes.

"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"

by Jaina on Feb 8, 2010 1:55 PM CST up reply actions  

true

no problem.

"4 inches, baby!" --ripped off from Kush

by anorexorcist on Feb 8, 2010 1:57 PM CST up reply actions  

ah thats who it was

thanks

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!

by piccolomair on Feb 8, 2010 5:39 PM CST up reply actions  

No offense..

But you’re asking a guy to sign a jersey at a time when he’s about to play in one of the most important games of his career. Not all guys like a ton of attention, some people just want to play the game. He was probably under a lot of stress, and really wasn’t in the mood to be signing autographs. If people came up to you day after day and wouldn’t leave you alone, you probably wouldn’t act too much different.

Especially with autographs, he never knows if you’re going to turn around and sell that jersey on EBay and make a profit off him. I’d think in that situation, a simple “Good luck today Tyrus,” as you walked by would have gone over a lot better.

by Grinder in Training on Feb 8, 2010 12:33 PM CST up reply actions  

I met him on Michigan Ave. and he was incredibly nice. That's the problems with personal anecdotes.

He comes across as someone who isn’t fond of reporters, I don’t think he’s ever had a friendly interview. Can’t blame it for that, but it probably doesn’t help his so-called surly demeanor.

Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

by Ozzie Montana on Feb 8, 2010 12:44 PM CST up reply actions  

I wouldn't be fond of autograph seekers either, unless they were under 15 years old

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 8, 2010 12:47 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

(says someone who went to 4 straight Cubs Conventions)

but that has an implied creepiness.

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 8, 2010 12:48 PM CST up reply actions  

also you never know when you catch the guy on a bad day.

even if a celeb was rude to me i wouldn’t necessarily write them off as being a douche.

"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"

by Jaina on Feb 8, 2010 12:50 PM CST up reply actions  

Hunh??? I completely interpreted that differently than you.....

Here’s the whole paragraph:

Thomas grew up with loving uncles instead of a father but still once told the Tribune he “couldn’t take other males telling me what to do.” Contrast that to the recent night in Philadelphia, when a reflective Thomas engaged in a long conversation about rising above adversity and staying professional.

When you take the first sentence with the second, I interpreted the first to mean (specific to growing up with uncles, but no father) TT didn’t take/handle their parenting/disciplining/tough love/etc. very well. Contrast that with the second sentence where he mentions “staying professional” inspite of adversity (eg discipline/tough love/ etc.).

How did you go from that to “dealing with a guy with this regrettable emotional attribute.” If I randomly plucked 1000 kids (who’s male authority figure was someone other than their father) from high schools across the country, would you be surprised if most said they couldn’t take other males telling them what to do?

"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan

by PeteRoc on Feb 8, 2010 8:48 AM CST up reply actions  

he grew up with "loving uncles" BUT (or, in spite of this [their love]) he "couldnt take males telling

him what to do." i thought he was saying this is how he responds to males, and it had nothing to do with his uncles being awful or anything; they were loving. the article said nothing about “tough love” or “discipline”. but this makes him seem touchy, irritable and emotional. this is why its a contrast for thomas to talk at length about “rising above adversity” and “staying professional.”
i never said balking at male authority was uncommon for people in tyrus’ situation. but since tyrus is a professional athlete and his authority figures (team leaders, GMs, coaches, trainers, owners, etc.) will ALL be men, id say that makes his attitude a little unfortunate here.

"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."

by TheMoon on Feb 8, 2010 9:16 AM CST up reply actions  

I don't mean to get all HS SAT on you, but

We both agree that KC was establishing a contrast between the 1st and 2nd sentence, so let me ask you this way…

“…Adversity” and “staying professional” is in contrast to which one:

“tough love” and “couldn’t take males telling him what to do”

or

“loving uncles” and “couldn’t take males telling him what to do”

Granted, KC never mentioned “tough love” but I assume he meant that TT (unlike other fatherless boys) at least got parenting from people who actually loved him (who else would have told KC they were “loving uncles”). In spite of this, he wasn’t receptive to their “parenting.”

I feel you’re interpreting KC’s words to mean TT is irrational. That might be true of course, but I don’t think KC was going there.

"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan

by PeteRoc on Feb 8, 2010 9:38 AM CST up reply actions  

im not saying thomas is irrational, at least no more than anyone else.

i just though KC was saying “thomas has a problem with male authority. sometimes when a person behaves like that, people tend to assume that there must have been some great conflict or problem between the person and the male or males in his home life, and that thats why he feels the way he does about males. but in this case, thats not true. thomas’ uncles were loving. so the way thomas acts, it has some other cause beyond his uncle’s parenting.” look, its not even a real paragraph we are talking about here. its vague. im assuming things, youre assuming things. who cares? thomas hates it when men tell him what to do. that sucks. it would be better for him if he didnt feel that way. especially as a pro athlete.

"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."

by TheMoon on Feb 8, 2010 9:59 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm not necessarily attacking you.....just the habit I see too often when describing players

I thought you felt safe to conclude something was wrong with TT, evidenced by him having “loving uncles” and “having problems with males telling him what to do.” Again, “thomas hates it when men tell him what do do. that sucks” is taking liberty with what KC wrote and using it to be dismissive about not the production from the player, but his emotional (or lack there of) state.

Personally, I hate when we (b/c I’ve been guilty of it at one point or another) take things we see on the court or events we “hear about” from our so accurate media and feel confident in our description of a player’s mental state, attitude, whatever.

I anticipated that others would jump on the bandwagon you created (not intentionally) given the pervailing use of TT has a low b-ball IQ, he makes dump plays, etc. I wanted to challenge your assertions b/c I don’t think they were in line with what KC was saying.

And I don’t want to see the ha, ha, TT is dumb comments that I knew would follow.

"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan

by PeteRoc on Feb 8, 2010 10:12 AM CST up reply actions  

Exhibit A.....I think VDN is an idiot

i’ve probably said that a million times. VDN’s IQ might be off the charts for all I know. I have a problem with how me disributes minutes, how he manages time outs, how he creates (or doesn’t in my opion) offensive sets, and how he designs end-of-game offensive possesions.

Those are all comments about what happens on the court. That’s way off topic from this thread, but I hope I don’t take those comments further and speak to him being mentally incapable of coaching.

"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan

by PeteRoc on Feb 8, 2010 10:19 AM CST up reply actions  

if thomas simply meant that he didnt handle his uncles parenting well, then why say

“[I] couldnt take OTHER MALES telling me what to do”? you took that very specifically. why?

"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."

by TheMoon on Feb 8, 2010 10:25 AM CST up reply actions  

No....you're the one that took it specifically....

This is what you wrote:

that part at the end of the article where he says thomas told the trib “I dont like males telling me what to do”. wow. what an astoundingly unfortunate trait for a professional athlete to have.

KC wasn’t even implying it came from some recent conversation he had with TT, hence the phrase “…once told the Tribune.” In other words, TT wasn’t necessarily describing that situation in light of his current situation.

For all we know, TT could have also told KC in retrospect he loved his uncles b/c they were so hard on him and he needed it.

I was responding to something you specifically took from KC’s article.

"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan

by PeteRoc on Feb 8, 2010 10:34 AM CST up reply actions  

yeah but in order to make the anecdote about the conversation something

other than a non sequitur here you need to bring up this thing about uncles being hard on him, which is not mentioned anywhere in the article.

"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."

by TheMoon on Feb 8, 2010 10:39 AM CST up reply actions  

you know what, i thought about it some more, and while i dont think

youve demonstrated anything positive here, youve convinced me to back off my first comment. youre right, i was too hasty in coming to a conclusion about tyrus for which there simply isnt enough evidence in this article.

"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."

by TheMoon on Feb 8, 2010 10:49 AM CST up reply actions  

by the way i hope its clear im not just trying to leave this conversation

out of annoyance or anything. i sincerely believe you are right and cede the point.

"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."

by TheMoon on Feb 8, 2010 10:53 AM CST up reply actions  

I appreciate that.....

Was just too busy typing, then deleting responses to the other comments above.

"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan

by PeteRoc on Feb 8, 2010 10:55 AM CST up reply actions  

This retelling of the quote I think casts it in that light...
As Tyrus once put it: "I just couldn’t take other males telling me what to do. I’d be like, ‘You’re not my dad. You can’t tell me this. You can’t tell me that.’ It was kind of like a rebellious stage in my life."

I think KC was a little confusing in making it sound more like a current attitude, while this makes it sound like a definite adolescent thing.

And when you read quotes from athletes used like this, is it any wonder the guys generally say nothing at all?

by wjb1492 on Feb 8, 2010 11:27 AM CST up reply actions  

good find

and so true. KC bends this quote to make it seem like Tyrus is just some problem child. Very disappointing in an otherwise good article

by Basketball Smurf on Feb 8, 2010 11:34 AM CST up reply actions  

I think it's fair use and interpretation

Although Tyrus might have said that in context of being a kid, there’s certainly evidence to link it to his current behavior.

Even when we grow up, we very often fall back on the same patterns of behavior in adversity that we had in our youth.

by Sports2 on Feb 8, 2010 12:15 PM CST up reply actions  

i'm sorry

but only in the shoddiest of journalism classes, is the deemed fair use and interpretation. He is using a partial quote from a completely separate conversation and applying to a circumstance where its fit is questionable at best. We’ve gotten use to this type of shoddy journalism over the last 15 years but to me, that is out of bounds. If KC wants to know why VDN and Tyrus can’t get along he needs to go ask somebody; not look through his notebook to a time when Tyrus was talking about something in his youth and apply to an argument Tyrus is having with VDN.

The failure to get along with VDN is not evidence that Tyrus has deep rooted problems with authority. I’m sorry, but it is a stretch to suggest that because Tyrus had problems listening to adult males as a kid, he will now and forever be unable to listen to adult males in his work life. Did Noah have those same problems? He was suspended for a game as well? How about BG? He had run-ins with VDN. That is arm-chair pscyoanalysis and it really has no place in a news story.

by Basketball Smurf on Feb 8, 2010 12:29 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

to be fair

in professional journalism, taking quotes and bending them like that without altering them or completely changing the context is actually a sort of gift and a path to being successful. People want the media to spout news, and theres not better news than bad news, contraversial quotes often lead to bad news….so while its not the way it should be done, its probably more merited in the proffesional world than in high school media.

That being said, i really dont like kc johnson and his twofaceness….

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!

by piccolomair on Feb 8, 2010 12:32 PM CST up reply actions  

I totally don't get your point

Taking quotes out of context is considered good journalism today(!), and because of that, we should all be okay with it? Because people prefer bad news and controversy the journalist has no duty of truth and accuracy? There was a time when journalist thought there job was to report the truth of the matter not to gin up controversy. When people talk about not trusting the media, its shit like this they are referring to.

The fact that crap like this leads to success in the professional world doesn’t mean its more meritorious, it just means that it is more successful (and easier) to traffic in sleaze and innuendo than to actually go out and get a story.

by Basketball Smurf on Feb 8, 2010 12:38 PM CST up reply actions  

success doesnt equal merit?

and i didnt say it was okay, its just how it is. You challenged that only in shoddy journalism classes were such things taught, that only shoddy journalists do such things…im saying…thats not true at all…maybe its not taught in classes, but in the actual work place it is practiced alot, it happens, and its how guys like vescey get success….

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!

by piccolomair on Feb 8, 2010 5:35 PM CST up reply actions  

no success doesn't equal merit, not to me at least

i can recognize that Brittany Spears is successful and believe she is without musical talent. Likewise I can recognize that Keith Olberman or Bill O’Reilly are very successful but question the jobs that they do.

I would just say that i would probably define a great deal more journalist as practicing shitty journalism than you would.

by Basketball Smurf on Feb 8, 2010 5:55 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

well done smurf. that analysis was

fair and balanced.

"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."

by TheMoon on Feb 8, 2010 5:59 PM CST up reply actions  

well i agree with you

brittany spears has no musical talent whatsoever…

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!

by piccolomair on Feb 8, 2010 7:02 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

You're leaving out a huge amount of context

I went back to look for stuff and I found this post I wrote back on 12/31/08 about Tyrus’ various incidents.

1. Going back to high school, a couple instances of Tyrus getting mad and quitting or threatening to quit his team when things didn’t go his way. Add interviews with his college teammates and coach talking about how he’s generally a moody and remote guy.
2. Skiles "he never runs" blowup.
3. Tyrus’ pre-meditated practice blowoff last year.
4. The game earlier this year when he was loafing around early in the game. Various folks noted In the gamethread how his body language looked awful before the tip, and how Rose and other players were yelling at him to make cuts, set screens, etc.
5. A similar game with similar actions by his teammates a few games later (it was the one he threw the ball into about the fifth row).
6. His getting kicked out of practice at least once by VDN for some sort of sarcastic remark.
7. VDN’s remarks a few games ago about not getting defensive help from his bigs (seemed obvious in the particular context he was talking about Tyrus).
8. I’m also thinking about Nocioni and Gooden’s quotes which you hammered on a couple days ago. It’s true they’re not really in a position to talk from our perspective, but if you look at how the NBA works, rather than our sense of fairness, you don’t want to have fairly established, veteran players saying the young guys aren’t trying (Noc) or very good at defense (Gooden). That’s an open indictment on your teammates.

Is that specific enough. A couple of things can be discounted, perhaps, but if you put the whole thing together, it paints a consistent picture of Thomas as a pretty frustrating guy to work with.

This isn’t an issue of why Tyrus and VDN can’t get along. It’s an issue of why Thomas has had more than trivial run-ins with coaches literally everywhere. He walked off his high school team. He got made at an assistant and walked out of an LSU practice. He’s had issues with every coach and in every season here with the Bulls.

So yeah, the quote accurately represents some of his thinking in ways that they obviously don’t with Noah or BG. Those guys, like most people, have had an isolated incident or two but generally have a reputation for being professionals who can take instruction from their bosses.

Tyrus has an obviously different record than those guys going back a long time, and he’s not demonstrated an ability to overcome his negative tendencies.

by Sports2 on Feb 8, 2010 2:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Wow...

If anyone eles had that track record, they would get crusified for it.

While TT should have more minutes, it seems that he never grew up since high school. Again it’s on him and coaches, but if he doesn’t listen to his coaches (no matter how crappy they are) or the players for that matter, then what can you do?

by T.Moore on Feb 8, 2010 2:44 PM CST up reply actions  

and while VDN is a doofus

one quality is that he seems to be easy to play for, to a fault. BG had the one thing with VDN, but he certainly got minutes regardless.

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 8, 2010 2:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah...

BG did get his minutes regardless of that incident with VDN, so there must be some sort reason why TT isnt getting his.

by T.Moore on Feb 8, 2010 2:48 PM CST up reply actions  

you are misinterpreting what I'm saying

if KC wants to make the case that Tyrus has a problem with authority than he can do that.

But to just place a quote out of context in a story is foul. The quote doesn’t even say what KC is implying it says – as WJB1492 states, KC is making it seem like that is a quote that reflects Tyrus’ current mindset. The full quote indicates that Tyrus believes those problems were in the past. I don’t think placing a quote out of context if it vibes with a theme you are trying to pitch is good journalism. As you yourself point out, there are many instances of Tyrus having problems with coaches. Therefore, there is absolutely no reason for KC take a quote about Tyrus’ youth and his uncles and apply it to this VDN crap. He could have used something from Skiles or from LSU or from high school.

Tyrus may very well have a problem with authority. I never argued otherwise. I just said that KC’s use of that quote was shit journalism. When you partially quote somones words and imply that it has a meaning or context that it doesn’t, you are practicing shitty journalism. No matter the underlying truth you are trying to speak of.

by Basketball Smurf on Feb 8, 2010 2:52 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

I just don't agree on the interpretation

KC said

Thomas grew up with loving uncles instead of a father but still once told the Tribune he “couldn’t take other males telling me what to do.” Contrast that to the recent night in Philadelphia, when a reflective Thomas engaged in a long conversation about rising above adversity and staying professional.

The second sentence is actually countering the first. He once had a problem, but since has “risen above it”.

Or not, as it turns out. But specifying that “once” to Tyrus meant, I guess meant the time period he was quitting his high school team and walking out of LSU practices or Bulls practices in a fit of pique doesn’t change the context all that much for me.

by Sports2 on Feb 8, 2010 3:07 PM CST up reply actions  

agree to disagree

Tyrus saying he tries to rise above adversity and stay professional is not a direct comparison/contrast with him mentioning that he had a rebellious phase as a youth; especially when the full quote says that rebellious phase is over.

by Basketball Smurf on Feb 8, 2010 3:25 PM CST up reply actions  

And it's not like he didn't revert to being unprofessional immediately afterward, too

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on Feb 8, 2010 12:49 PM CST up reply actions  

thanks. but isnt that bulls-by-the-horns article more or less

making the same set of flawed assumptions that i was? the quote is about adolescence but the author basically says the problem is current.

"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."

by TheMoon on Feb 8, 2010 11:38 AM CST up reply actions  

Well, yeah, the only point in bringing up a story he told about his youth

is to suggest he still has the same problems – the distinction I see is that the above version of the quote gives more context to what Tyrus was specifically talking about when he gave the quote. Whatever conclusions we all draw about Tyrus, at least with this one it’s clear that Tyrus was talking about something that happened long ago. The way KC used the quote isn’t as clear, imo – you could read that as something Tyrus said reflective of his current attitude rather than a story a told from his childhood or teen years.

I’d find it really alarming if the adult Tyrus expressly stated he didn’t want other males telling him what to do – I really don’t have any additional concerns about Tyrus as an adult because he recognizes that he was a rebellious kid.

by wjb1492 on Feb 8, 2010 12:14 PM CST up reply actions   2 recs

its gonna be like cedric benson this year

with tyrus next year, isn’t it?

I'm cuckoo for Kukoc!!!

I think I hate Reinsdorf more than I hate Krause

by Yibs on Feb 8, 2010 7:53 AM CST reply actions  

Yes it is

That’s what’s wrong with our fanbase and media here. It’s easier to bash the player and “Throw the bum out” than it is to look at the organization. How many former Bears were playing in the playoffs this year? Many.

by Dils on Feb 8, 2010 9:52 AM CST up reply actions  

Um...The Cedric Benson thing was justified.

He had more chances than Tyrus and the bears got rid of Thomas Jones (who is better) so that Benson would get his chance and he failed and got himself into legal issues as well and was acting like a total idiot saying by the 3rd game when Thomas Jones was still there he would start over him. Benson was thinking after the bears cut him “oh shit! I better stop acting up and just shut up or my career is over” Both situations were different. Benson screwed himself over by acting like a dumbass and getting in trouble with the cops and him getting cut was a wake up call if , Tyrus’ situation the he and the coaches screwed him. TT was not in any legal trouble like Benson was.

The bears letting Thomas Jones go was just retarded.

by T.Moore on Feb 8, 2010 10:20 AM CST up reply actions  

That's totally different

He was given plenty of touches and chances to be the guy. He just wasn’t very productive. Also, the person in front of him (Thomas Jones) was actually a better player.

Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."

by bigballa10 on Feb 8, 2010 1:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Agreed

TT didn’t have to replace someone who is better than him.

by T.Moore on Feb 8, 2010 2:05 PM CST up reply actions  

i got that

im just saying it as just this year, where he came back to haunt us.

I'm cuckoo for Kukoc!!!
I'm buying tickets for Feb. 20th. First home game after the trade deadline. Will I be happy?

by Yibs on Feb 8, 2010 2:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Well

that remains to be seen, it depends on what team he’s on.

by T.Moore on Feb 8, 2010 2:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Maybe

Vinny knows the org is gonna BG Tyrus coming into this year and wants to try to develop Taj a bit. I mean I know Tyrus’s raw talent is still off the charts and unfortunately still raw, but that’s not from a lack of effort on the Bulls part to bring him in/along….

The thing that sucks about this whole controversy is that Taj is playing quite well for a rookie and because T2 is at least at the same level—but with the ability to be better every few games and much worse the games in between, it’s more than frustrating.

Move on Chicago. I am a Tyrus fan, but he’s not in the org’s plans….and frankly that’s more his doing than anything, as I’m quite sure we’d be much happier if Tyrus broke out and we could pay him $5-7M/year for 3-4 years at least than pay a Bosh the max. Tyrus has ridiculous talent, but hasn’t figured it out yet….and well I am tired fo the drama….I don’t care anymore if he figures it out elsewhere, he had his chances and then some here…..

Sadly....through thick and thin....

by majoyenrac on Feb 8, 2010 8:02 AM CST reply actions  

I would be happy with nearly anything in a trade...

Charlotte is looking to move Acie Law…we could send them Tyrus for Law and Flip Murray… That would give the Bulls depth to trade any one of the guards…

Honestly, I would be happy if the Bulls could get a pick in the same range we got for Thabo.

Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.

by Dionysus2.0 on Feb 8, 2010 8:18 AM CST reply actions  

murry is useful for charlotte; they wont trade him for tyrus. and the time for 1st round picks for tyrus

has passed. as a player hes now useless to the bulls franchise in every conceivable way…. assuming they continue to have a phobia about playing him.

"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."

by TheMoon on Feb 8, 2010 8:35 AM CST up reply actions  

You are ridiculous

They certainly would trade for Tyrus. That’s not enough for him….

Sadly....through thick and thin....

by majoyenrac on Feb 8, 2010 9:55 AM CST up reply actions  

this isnt my opinion, obviously i like tyrus more than flip as ive been confused for 3 solid years

as to why tyrus wasnt starting at PF. but if you follow Rufus on Fire, Larry Brown likes and trusts Flip a lot, for some reason. so i doubt charlotte would do this.

"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."

by TheMoon on Feb 8, 2010 10:09 AM CST up reply actions  

I still doubt it's nil

I bet he’ll get an ok contract near the MLE for 2 years at least…I mean he’s better now than Duhon ever was and has gobs of upside potential….

It’s just tough to trade him because other teams know he’s not more than a last ditch effort consolation prize in Chicago and he’s burning that bridge at the moment. But there should be teams that see what he can do at 23 and think hmmm….if we crack it, we could compete very quickly.

They just might not want to give up an asset to do so right now and rather use real due diligence with a fiery character like T2 this summer.

Sadly....through thick and thin....

by majoyenrac on Feb 8, 2010 11:41 AM CST up reply actions  

i think youre right at the end. why would anyone give up valuable assets now for something

they can get for “free” later. unless something like that kirk-tyrus-james for ray allen trade happens i dont see tyrus going anywhere.

"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."

by TheMoon on Feb 8, 2010 11:59 AM CST up reply actions  

Only if a team wants TT for this years playoffs would they likely trade for him,

since he should be available for the MLE or less after the Bulls release him this summer.

We miss you, Ben Gordon!

by Granny Waiters on Feb 8, 2010 12:24 PM CST up reply actions  

yep.

"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."

by TheMoon on Feb 8, 2010 12:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah

But with him so up and down game to game, I don’t think any team that is in the title run wants him, and those just vying for teh playoffs (Miami, and well in the East ya never know what happens with a win streak Knicks) those teams are close to a max guy that they won’t get Tyrus because while he has ridiculous upside, they can’t count on him for the playoff stretch as a reliable guy since he’s so absolutely sensational 1 game, horrible 3 games and ok 5 games….and in all those games even teh great games he’s still a scary guy in the clutch…..remember him not passing the ball to Derrick in the Boston series and instead wanting to take the clutch FT’s?

I certainly do, and this Tyrus fan (and I am still one) was like, come on Tyrus pass the damn ball.

Sadly....through thick and thin....

by majoyenrac on Feb 8, 2010 12:52 PM CST up reply actions  

It's not horrific

When that said player has proven he’s capable of performing consistently well in clutch situations. Tyrus in his career has 1 of them (game 1 vs Celtics). Sure he’s been a game changer in the first through 3rd quarters before….but he wasn’t Rose.

I’ve been a Tyrus fan, I really and truly have….but from other team’s perspectives they are going to see that and think, man I don’t want to risk it with this guy (for the contenders who want a finalizing splash) and the 6th-10th out Easter’s aren’t gonna give up the expirings we need because it just helps us next year and well they don’t have to give anything up to sign him.

Sadly....through thick and thin....

by majoyenrac on Feb 8, 2010 7:39 PM CST up reply actions  

I wouldn't mind getting a second round pick.

If we can’t use him (or won’t) he has to go.

by T.Moore on Feb 8, 2010 10:32 AM CST up reply actions  

Maybe they can trade Tyrus for Aaron Gray.

Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

by Ozzie Montana on Feb 8, 2010 9:32 AM CST reply actions  

It really aggravates me, this whole Tyrus situation. On one hand, Tyrus has handled this whole situation terribly and immaturely. I know that and I’m not making excuses about his behavior, it’s wrong. However, all around the league, teams learn to adjust to their players to make them effective. Phil did it with Rodman, Portland coddles LMA because he is a moody distrustful guy, Atlanta with Josh Smith, Denver with JR Smith. It’s easy to say, “oh we’re paying you millions so just straighten up and fly right”….which isn’t totally wrong but it’s not realistic. Athletes are still humans with the same problems as everyone else. Tyrus obviously has some mental issues/trust issues. Dude grew up in a broken home so he probably does have trust issues with men, resentment for authority. I always thought they should have sent him to a sports psychologist.

It just annoys that we use a high pick on someone that we know need special attention on and off the court and then we just do nothing special, nothing different. Jerk him around even when he is being focused and productive. When he plays well, he should have been positively reinforced with more or at least steady minutes. If he makes a mistake, spend extra time at practice with him, don’t just pull him out of the game unless he is just totally sabotaging our chance to win. It’s to the point where even positive efforts from Tyrus were ignored so of course he’s going to resort to acting out negatively. He comes back from injury, has a great game against NO and it’s like it didn’t even matter to Vinny. That’s just not good coaching. You don’t just make up your mind that I just don’t trust this guy or I don’t like his attitude so fuck him, which is pretty much what Vinny has been saying since the Boston series last season.

Tyrus has never had an established role on this team, to me he was supposed to be a Marion/AK-47 type player…basically a 3/4 tweener with a suspect shot that can block shots, get steals, score in transition and occasionally hit jumpers. He’s not a traditional PF, but he could have been a great weapon off the bench getting like 30 minutes a game. I don’t know if he can be more than an average starter but he could have been a valuable contributor. As a coach, I would have stressed that he should stay near the basket to get the easy buckets(putbacks, alley oops). He has the ability to get to the line that surpasses anyone else on the team. He has good handles for a 4 and has learned to drive to the basket without barrelling into people. I just don’t think Vinny utilized any of his skills and it almost seems VDN sabotaged him by encouraging him to float on the perimeter and shoot 18 footers. People knock Tyrus for shooting jumpers but Vinny wants him to.

My main beef besides Tyrus’ inability to not be his worst enemy or the total lack of development he was offered was that we knew that we didn’t want him anymore. TT still had trade value last year and in the preseason yet we didn’t move him. The FO knew Vinny wasn’t gonna play him yet we hold on to him like to a stock that is plummeting 3 points a day. This is just like the BG situation. You gotta get something for your lottery picks even if it’s just another pick. Another decent organization doesn’t let two lottery picks just dip out with nothing to show.

Sorry this was so long, but this is all just a waste.

by C Smoove on Feb 8, 2010 9:36 AM CST reply actions   2 recs

he didn't have value last season

Some of the Chicago media have reported that they tried like hell to trade him last Feb. and before the draft and no one in the NBA wanted him. Part of the reason no one wanted him was Pax had devalued him in seasons 3 and 4 by telling other GMs around the league how disappointed the Bulls were in Thomas(Pax let out some of the behind the scenes skipping practices stuff).

If you need proof that the Bulls have been thinking of letting go of Tyrus whenever they can – look at who they drafted in 2009 ( remember they had a lot of needs last draft). They drafted a SF-PF athletic project in James Johnson ( similar to Tyrus) and they drafted a safe PF ( Tyrus’s position). No one can look at those to pics and conclude they weren’t replacing Tyrus.

by Jscho316 on Feb 8, 2010 10:24 AM CST up reply actions  

"It just annoys that we use a high pick on someone that we know need special attention on and off the court and then we just do nothing special, nothing different."

How do you know that? It’s not exactly something the team would yell to the hills.

None of us know what’s happened internally to the team and org. What we do know is that Tyrus’ effort is inconsistent at best, he floats on defense to get the highlight reel block while screwing up the team defense, and he wants to be a SF or SG on offense rather than a PF and often removes himself from the basket area on that end (where he is the most effective).

Tyrus has had problems with just about every coach he’s had, so while VDN has made his usual mistakes in regard to Tyrus, you can’t put the blame for the current situation on Vinny. At some point Tyrus has to recognize the reason he’s not approaching All-Star levels is his own doing.

by kozzer on Feb 8, 2010 1:12 PM CST up reply actions  

They better have known it. Others did. They knew he wanted to be a SF, too.

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on Feb 8, 2010 1:26 PM CST up reply actions  

What?

I mean, how does C Smoove know what’s going on inside the org with regard to Tyrus? And so he wants to be a SF, that’s fine when you’re coming in to the league, but when your skillset doesn’t develop that way and you’re clearly best suited to PF, then you do things that PF’s do. There’s absolutely no reason Tyrus doesn’t get 2 or 3 alley-oops a game except that he likes to be outside shooting jumpers for some reason. To some degree that falls on the coaching staff, I suppose, but when that’s your role for a player and he refuses to do what you say, what are you supposed to do?

Tyrus, IMO, has the skills to be a multi-time All Star, but he doesn’t have the mental part. Not talking about intelligence, but rather his lack recognition of his own limitations where his almost unparalleled skills lie.

by kozzer on Feb 8, 2010 1:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Vinny is the one that has him playing on the outside, encouraging him to take all those jumpers that we don’t want him to take. So yeah a lot of blame is on Tyrus but Vinny is the one who has him floating on the perimeter. Any coach would have had Derrick and Tyrus practice alley oops and pick and rolls all summer. I see no evidence that Vinny did this at all. I don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes but it just appears like Vinny didn’t really give any effort in his relationship with Tyrus. And that goes vice versa as well.

by C Smoove on Feb 8, 2010 1:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, that's all true

I know Vinny hasn’t told him to stop taking jumpers in general, but I seriously doubt he’s “enouraged” Tyrus to be a perimeter player.

But, in general, you’re right. They should have sat Rose and Tyrus down and had them watch a marathon tape session of Chris Paul and Tyson Chandler, because THAT’S what they are/were capable of. And what I was expecting, quite frankly.

by kozzer on Feb 8, 2010 1:36 PM CST up reply actions  

The Bulls offense has NEVER called for that.

He’d be the leading dunker in the NBA if he got two alley-oops per game. Maybe some think he should, but that’s simply not what has been asked of the PF position for the entirety of Thomas’s career.

What they want him to do set picks and pop to 15-20 feet, then shoot “good” jumpers when he’s open or pass if he’s not. That’s all. They don’t want him dribbling towards the hoop if he’s got a lane. They don’t want him running around making cuts like Luol Deng or cuts to the basket for alley-oops. Maybe if it’s open, but there is nothing designed for it. It’s no coincidence that in his fifth game of Del Negro’s tenure he shoots 18 shots and his coach says maybe they weren’t all great, but he wants him to keep taking shots if he’s open.

Where Thomas’s poor decision making comes into play isn’t when he doesn’t get to the basket for a dunk (because they don’t want him to), it’s when he takes a forced jumper or tries to dribble through guys because he sees a broken defense on a pick-and-pop. Those are his selfish attributes that A) either he takes them because he wants to be the man (most likely) and/or B) he takes them because at this point he just doesn’t give a damn and doesn’t know how long he’ll be in the game anyway (just as likely).

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on Feb 8, 2010 2:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Tyrus bashers keep on bringing up his wild jump hook he took against ATL

but my question to them is what shot were the Bulls trying to get, what offense were they running? Rose and Deng were out the game. What play is the Bulls offense trying to get in that situation? Too much of VDN’s coaching is based on whether the shots are falling. When Rose is out of the game, what exactly is the offense trying to accomplish? What sets are they running? Who is suppose to shoot?

by Basketball Smurf on Feb 8, 2010 3:00 PM CST up reply actions  

When Rose

is out the game the offense struggles, w/ our precious CRAPTAIN running it

by QUINTEN DALEY on Feb 8, 2010 3:13 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

I'm going to buy tickets for Feb 20th

First home game after the trade deadline. Will I be happy?

I'm cuckoo for Kukoc!!!

I think I hate Reinsdorf more than I hate Krause

by Yibs on Feb 8, 2010 9:51 AM CST reply actions  

Sad very sad

Great guy to get behind as a fan, especially when he does right on the court.
Kind of the underdog.

Now there are lots of stories going around about his character.
He is certainly out, likely before Feb18th. If he isn’t, then he’ll rot on the bench and fester into the ‘horrible’ personal cancer that he is being painted as.

All your base are belong to Vinny.

by BCs71 on Feb 8, 2010 9:55 AM CST reply actions  

Kudos to KC.

For not hanging all the cats on TT.There was NO SINGLE exuse for not playing him in Phili.And kinda understannd his frustration.
He has his problems,bit the Org and Vinny didn’t even try to help him.
Now The Bulls and Tyrus succesfully droped his value as player…Good job.

General manager needs the ability to foretell what is going to happen tomorrow,next week, next month, and next year. And to have the ability afterwards to explain why it didn't happen.
Sir Paxdorf.

by Azabullsfan on Feb 8, 2010 10:11 AM CST via mobile reply actions  

damn i had no idea

that he was getting 16 pts. 10 boards. and 2 blks
when he came back… yea that doesn’t deserve more playing time? what the hell is going on in these idiot’s heads??

I'm cuckoo for Kukoc!!!
I'm buying tickets for Feb. 20th. First home game after the trade deadline. Will I be happy?

by Yibs on Feb 8, 2010 11:10 AM CST reply actions  

Over 3 games...

With fresh legs.

How can we have the worst offense in the league when everything about our team owner and coach is offensive?

by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 8, 2010 11:15 AM CST up reply actions  

still

3 games with that kinda performance, would warrant more playing time…

I'm cuckoo for Kukoc!!!
I'm buying tickets for Feb. 20th. First home game after the trade deadline. Will I be happy?

by Yibs on Feb 8, 2010 11:36 AM CST up reply actions  

After a broken arm, with rusty skills.

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on Feb 8, 2010 11:42 AM CST up reply actions  

Nope, he's an asshole for being healthy.

Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

by Ozzie Montana on Feb 8, 2010 11:43 AM CST up reply actions  

hahah

malcontent

How dare he voice his concern?
Anyone wonder if he voiced his concerns about playing time nicely and subtley over the last few weeks, and then blowing up only now after being ignored?
Maybe Ty read the newspapers (KC and such) suggesting that he should be playing more? Beat writers who come off as his friend(s) lobbying for more Tyrus playing time and/or starting.

All your base are belong to Vinny.

by BCs71 on Feb 8, 2010 12:09 PM CST up reply actions  

O.K.

Your point?

I never said I don’t want Tyrus to play, I enjoy watching the guy and still hope he’ll somehow work out, hell I even had him on my fantasy bball squad until recently.

I was merely stating that 16, 10, and 2 (blocks) as an average is ridiculous to point out given the tiny sample size of 3 freakin’ games. We should all know (and admit) full well that Tyrus can’t average those numbers over a full season.

I don’t get the venom for pointing this out, I’m just being realistic.

How can we have the worst offense in the league when everything about our team owner and coach is offensive?

by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 8, 2010 5:10 PM CST up reply actions  

yibs didn't say that 16, 10 and 2

was somehow indicative of the way Tyrus always played. He just said that after those 3 games Tyrus deserved more playing time. To which you responded “3 games… with fresh legs” as some type of counterpoint to Tyrus deserving more minutes.

Its not the reaction to your comment that doesn’t make sense. Its your comment that doesn’t make sense in light of what was in the article and what Yibs wrote. Yibs was responding to the article. I’m not quite sure the point you were trying to make with your original comment, which is why so many people jumped on it. And which makes your incredulous reaction, all the more ridiculous.

by Basketball Smurf on Feb 8, 2010 6:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Why exactly does it have to be a counterpoint...

As much as a statement of fact?

How can we have the worst offense in the league when everything about our team owner and coach is offensive?

by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 8, 2010 10:17 PM CST up reply actions  

Then I guess you win?

How can we have the worst offense in the league when everything about our team owner and coach is offensive?

by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 8, 2010 10:25 PM CST up reply actions  

A couple things

-How is it ridiculous for TT to average those numbers over a full season, given that his Per36 is around the same [15 and 9]?
-Also, the point was that Tyrus lost his job by having it taken from him for no reason whatsoever, which is true. Taj was playing worse, TT was playing really well AND was rusty. A good response to that is to make him a backup and then bury him on the bench. Great!

Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!

by Prevenge on Feb 8, 2010 10:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Listen, I don't know why Tyrus lost his starting job...

But let’s both concede that neither do you.

Is it possible that VDN and pretty much the entire Bulls org. as a whole are idiots with no sense of direction or any clue about how to develop young talent?… Sure.

Is it also possible that Tyrus Thomas is his own worst enemy and makes it difficult for the coaching staff or the entire Bulls org. to WANT to see him succeed… Maybe.

Maybe you are right, maybe he could average close to 16 points, 10 rebounds, and 2 blocks if he was given 36 minutes per game no matter how he played, but I think we can both conceded that would never happen on the Bulls.

How can we have the worst offense in the league when everything about our team owner and coach is offensive?

by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 8, 2010 10:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Well, it won't happen on the Bulls. It could've. But it didn't.

We’ll see. Maybe it’s just a mismatch or something. It’s just a strange situation. All I can surmise looking in from the outside is that they aren’t playing this good player who would help them win, for reasons that they themselves are clouding in secrecy.
I really hope TT goes to another team and becomes a starter. He’ll open a lot of eyes. …

Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!

by Prevenge on Feb 10, 2010 1:49 AM CST up reply actions  

yep

where do i claim my prize?

by Basketball Smurf on Feb 8, 2010 10:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Your prize is the last word...

Here… It’s yours.

How can we have the worst offense in the league when everything about our team owner and coach is offensive?

by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 8, 2010 10:52 PM CST up reply actions  

One thing I seem to "know" about all of this:

I don’t recall Del Negro ever yet admitting to a mistake as a coach. In basketball or otherwise. I have no reason to trust anything this guy says.

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on Feb 8, 2010 12:52 PM CST reply actions  

That's why I've continually bashed him no matter what.

In his mind, he’s never done anything wrong. It’s ridiculous.

PLAY!!!!

Thrusting toward the playoffs, one game at a time.

by Illini15 on Feb 8, 2010 12:58 PM CST up reply actions  

so

by your reasoning about “knowing” something that you don’t recall, any time someone doesn’t admit to making mistakes, they are untrustworthy?

makes clear sense to me.

by leeac on Feb 8, 2010 1:16 PM CST up reply actions  

when people don't admit mistakes, yes, they are untrustworthy

Everyone makes mistakes, especially rookie coaches.

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on Feb 8, 2010 1:27 PM CST up reply actions  

Vinny has said that he has made mistakes and he has learned lessons last year

however when someone asked him specifically what it was…he had nothing to say.

by diedaily23 on Feb 8, 2010 1:25 PM CST up reply actions  

exactly

“umm… trading sammy sosa.”

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on Feb 8, 2010 1:27 PM CST up reply actions  

You know something?

I can see him saying something that stupid.

by T.Moore on Feb 8, 2010 2:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Teammates

I get the feeling Tyrus’ teammates aren’t too upset about the suspension. Noone overtly stood up for him and a couple made a point to praise Richard’s strong inside effort against Miami.

by El Toro de Goro on Feb 8, 2010 2:51 PM CST reply actions  

I'm sure Luol had a nice quote about a 'winning' locker room :)

I do wonder if VDN actively looked to not start Tyrus in part due to the ‘message’ it would send to the rest of the team.

To me that message would be ‘better players start’, but maybe they wouldn’t have liked Tyrus rewarded for being the squeaky wheel, I dunno.

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 8, 2010 3:22 PM CST up reply actions  

not publically

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 8, 2010 4:56 PM CST up reply actions  

coulda just put the link there, heh.

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 8, 2010 3:22 PM CST up reply actions  

Sorry, I thought I put the block quotes in the right place

But folks would have skipped the link. And while we’re on the subject of journalistic integrity, I know that although this is Bulls promo material, I don’t think I’ve ever seen bullshit laid on quite so thick.

Some of the highlights to me:

What do you get when you combine the leaping ability of Shawn Marion, the soft touch of Tracy McGrady, and a combination of size and speed that makes entire NBA Draft rooms drool with anticipation?

Ha!

Perhaps the most amazing aspect of Thomas’s ascension to the NBA is that in a world where the scrutiny of basketball prospects has gone worldwide and into greater depth than ever, this teenage forward shot from being a stealth-cloaked Louisianan a year ago to No. 2 glad-hander on the NBA Draft dais. Thomas’ meteoric rise is not unlike that of his idol, McGrady—and no, the similarity of Thomas’s “T-Time” to McGrady’s “T-Mac” nickname is not a coincidence.

McGrady, recall, was a skinny Florida teen who jumped from high school unknown to summer camp standout to lottery pick in the space of months. Thomas was an even bigger surprise, as an unknown until midway through last season, first exploding onto college basketball’s biggest stage, then crashing the NBA lottery party like John Belushi in a toga.

While he dreamed of playing in the NBA growing up in Baton Rouge, Thomas didn’t participate in organized basketball until his junior year at McKinley High. He wasn’t a high school All-American. He wasn’t a top-100 prospect nationally. He didn’t even make the cut for Louisiana’s All-State corps. As for an NBA future, Thomas might as well have been playing in Bangladesh or Barbados, he was so far off the league’s radar.

This all sounds very nice except the underpinning comparison with McGrady absurd. McGrady, far from being unknown, was named USA Today High School Player of the Year.

“A lot of chatter out there was about picking an ‘NBA-ready’ guy,” Bulls GM John Paxson says. “At another time, in another place, maybe that’s a consideration. But when you are drafting No. 2, with a clear shot at far and away the best talent in the Draft, you don’t pass on him. Not now and not ever.”

Paxson wistfully recalls a first glimpse of Thomas before an LSU road game, noting a confident “bounce” in Thomas’s step during warm-ups before he ravaged the 2nd-ranked Connecticut Huskies to the tune of 15 points, 13 rebounds and seven blocks.

Wistfully?

“We won’t ask too much of Tyrus too soon,” Skiles insists. “We want him to work hard, play hard and use his energy to help our team. I would never want to limit a guy like Tyrus, but let’s just say I’m going to be patient with him as long as he’s working hard.”

Clearly, Thomas and his new coach will be quickly and steadfastly bonded by their similar devotions: “Randy told me about Scott Skiles, that he’s a good guy who loves hard work. He’s going to push you hard—he has high expectations—but I’m not afraid of anyone pushing me to my limit. What appeals to me most about coming to Chicago is how hard they work. That fits exactly with who I am. It’s the right atmosphere. Coach is intense; he’ll push you hard. I’m ready for that.”

He may be young, but Thomas is wise beyond his years when it comes to deflating hype. He knows words like athleticism, potential, freakish and length are mostly made-up terms often shouted out to fill air time in Draft coverage.

“The word ‘potential’ doesn’t mean much to me,” he says. "You have to maximize your skills and ability. Potential is just a smokescreen. You have to prove you’re real in order to earn all the praise.

Ha!

“Tyrus is a can’t-miss player in my eyes, and the Bulls are a perfect fit for him. It’s a young team that plays together, and that speaks a lot to how well John Paxson and Scott Skiles have constructed that team. Scott demands a lot from his players, but he makes those demands in a respectful way that’s easy to respond to. That’s a perfect fit for Tyrus.”

Apparently Tyson Chandler wasn’t interviewed for this article.

As you can see, when it comes to demands, Paxson and Skiles can spout and sputter until they are blue in the face, but no one will raise the bar any higher than Thomas already has, as perhaps the hardest-working Draft pick in NBA history.

The hardest-working Draft pick in NBA history!!

by Sports2 on Feb 8, 2010 3:42 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

I forgot about Lebron

I may not like him but he improved his game as well. Yep gave props to him.

by T.Moore on Feb 8, 2010 3:47 PM CST up reply actions  

well he certainly worked hard

just not on what they wanted him to.

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 8, 2010 4:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Rec'd

and my new sig:

“The word ‘potential’ doesn’t mean much to me,” he says. “You have to maximize your skills and ability. Potential is just a smokescreen. You have to prove you’re real in order to earn all the praise.”

by leeac on Feb 8, 2010 6:14 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

so you start by saying everyone is too xtreme

then you say (in all caps, mind you) that he had no basketball skills whatsoever coming out of the draft. Ok.

I never give much value in the ‘inconsistency’ argument, since it always comes back to the idea that Tyrus would be safer if he didn’t have good plays to tantalize you or something.

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 8, 2010 6:44 PM CST up reply actions  

AHAH that was funny

The Even worse thing is TT makes stupid mistakes bad turnovers, goaltends and takes crazy shots / illadvised shots in 15 mins of game AND after all this he is still better than TAJ gibson in every statisticall viewpoint. Isnt that just CRAZY?

by rick_ross on Feb 8, 2010 8:30 PM CST up reply actions  

wait for it... wait for it... (sarcasm to follow)

But Taj is battling plantar fasciitis. Ha. So your argument has no weight. Plus, I don’t believe statistics. My eyes tell me Taj should be on the floor when he’s healthy.

by kingj41 on Feb 9, 2010 5:53 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Sometimes I wonder

If Tyrus gets bailed out with a few extra free throws than he deserves because he goes in so out of control so often that the officials think “that must have been a foul right?” So there. He does have one good skill going for him…

by berzerkulous on Feb 9, 2010 4:44 PM CST up reply actions  

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