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Around SBN: The Gift Of The 2003 Tigers

So glad we traded him away for a bag of balls.

So glad we refused to hire a real coach that could have gotten the most out of him.

So glad we refused to trade Hinrich for expirings so we would have had the money to retain a talent like this.

Ugh.

almost 2 years ago Joakimnoah_tiny fundamentallysound 134 comments 5 recs  | 

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Really?

after five solid games for another team we are pining for the Tyrus Thomas era? C’mon Bulls fans, we know what greatness looked like, we understand what it really is, and Tyrus was not great, lets be honest.

by MRubio52 on Feb 28, 2010 6:59 PM CST reply actions   2 recs

I've been pining for the Tyrus Thomas era, since before he even left. We never really got to see what he could be with proper

coaching. Now you’re seeing it.

It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147

We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.

-- yfBB

God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.

by fundamentallysound on Feb 28, 2010 7:30 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Does that mean any Bulls player

would be better on any team with “proper coaching”? It’s too bad we couldn’t attend to his special needs. This whole Tyrus thing reminds me of all the parents whose kids have ADD and can’t sit still for 5 minutes, but instead of emphasizing their need for self-control/discipline, they want to insist it’s because their kids are really geniuses, and it’s their teachers or “the system’s” failure to recognize their unique talents that’s causing the difficulty. Maybe if we send Pargo to Larry Brown his shots will start dropping. What you’re seeing is the common phenomenon of a recently traded player doing well on a new team. Salmons just put up 32/8/4 tonight, and it’s not due to Skiles’ nurturing.

hard pail lunch hat

by headphones on Feb 28, 2010 10:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Salmons went to a team that actually runs an offense and his numbers went up? Shocker.

It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147

We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.

-- yfBB

God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.

by fundamentallysound on Feb 28, 2010 11:43 PM CST up reply actions  

Are you serious?

Do you actually mean to say that Vinny’s coaching caused Salmons’ lousy FG% this season? Vinny was coaching last year too, if you recall, while Salmons was having the best season of his career. It’s not atypical for a player’s performance to spike in new surroundings for a few games. Wait a couple weeks before jumping up and down proclaiming how TT or Fish are flourishing.

hard pail lunch hat

by headphones on Mar 1, 2010 12:44 AM CST up reply actions  

Do you think a good coach doesn't matter?

Do you actually mean to say, that being in an offense where you get an open shot off a properly run play doesn’t help your FG% ?

That guys don’t play better under better coaching? Why even have a coach if it didn’t matter. Clearly a good coach helps. Particularly for guys with specific skill sets and not an all around game.

by Grinder in Training on Mar 1, 2010 10:01 AM CST up reply actions  

Then why hasn't it helped Brandon Jennings FG%?

Do you think I’m arguing against coaching in general? I’m only pointing towards the naivete of those who’re trying to claim that TT and Salmons are instantly improved players just because Vinny isn’t their coach anymore.

hard pail lunch hat

by headphones on Mar 1, 2010 10:54 AM CST up reply actions  

Brandon Jennings FG% is low because he's a rookie that defenses have adjusted to

And because he was shooting at a rate so high that it was bound to come crashing down. The guy is smaller than Iverson and was hitting more shots at the rim than Rose (who is the best in the league at converting close shots).

Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

by Ozzie Montana on Mar 1, 2010 11:03 AM CST up reply actions  

but if he has a "proper coach" in Scott Skiles

why should that be the case? Seriously, tell me you actually think that Vinny’s offense is what was keeping Salmons down. Correlation does not equal causation.

hard pail lunch hat

by headphones on Mar 1, 2010 11:36 AM CST up reply actions  

While I agree that Tyrus is going to excel in Charlotte because of better coaching.

I don’t feel the same for Salmons, for some reason I didn’t read the posts above me and thought we were talking about Tyrus.

Salmons is a career journeyman, I could care less about his production. He was playing better before the trade, and obviously has incentive to play hard in order to secure one last contract extension. Skiles is likely going to call his number more often than in Chicago, but I’ll agree that the coaching has very little to do with his resurgence.

Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

by Ozzie Montana on Mar 1, 2010 12:16 PM CST up reply actions  

Not running a play

For a guy who needs to be open to shoot. It’s not complicated, I’d suggest his coaching was far more of an issue for Tyrus though, but Salmons will surely benefit somewhat from Skiles.

Salmons increase in productivity will be minimal compared to someone like Tyrus who has so much more potential, and because Tyrus was benched all the time, while Salmons was able to play.

That doesn’t change the fact that anyone, Salmons included, will benefit from a better coach. I think we all agree Skiles and Brown are better coaches, and therefore we can anticipate these guys will play better. Tyrus just has more room for growth, and was more limited by Vinny than Salmons.

And you’re using a rookie who was shooting out of his mind as your example.

Again.. if you don’t think the coach matters, why are some coaches getting paid more than others? What is it that you think coaches are getting paid to do if it’s not to improve the play of their team? Why have a coach at all? The whole point of having a good coach is getting guys in a position to succeed so the team can win.

by Grinder in Training on Mar 1, 2010 1:28 PM CST up reply actions  

Never said coaching doesn’t matter. In fact, I said “not saying coaching doesn’t matter”…don’t know how to lend more clarity to it than that. The whole point is that a player having an uptick in performance over 5 games after a trade isn’t a solid indicator of anything other than a boost from a change of scene. Studies have shown office workers “perform” better when you paint the walls a new color.

After five games, most players will admit they’re still finding their place in the system, learning plays, etc. So how could you possibly attribute any improved (or for that matter, diminished) performance to coaching so early on?

hard pail lunch hat

by headphones on Mar 1, 2010 2:39 PM CST up reply actions  

Great point.

If he’s not great, get rid of him. You sound like those at-the-bar meatballs who think anyone that’s not Jordan sucks.

The dumb thing about this is that the Bulls didn’t trade away Tyrus to get cap space; they could have just renounced him anyway. They only got rid of him for the sake of it, and in a situation where he is allowed to play(through his mistakes) he’s thrived, albeit in a small sample size.

Metal sharpens metal.

And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan

The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.

by dakoose on Feb 28, 2010 7:30 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

No

if he’s not great, who gives a rats ass if he’s gone and does well in a five game sample? seriously? and to the comment below, I could care less about Taj or Kirk at this point, they are both interchangeable players with extremely average skill sets.

Honestly, he wasn’t happy here, the org didn’t like him, he’s somewhere were he can utilize his skill set, good for him. Good for the Fish too, great, I’m happy for them, I really am.

But I could honestly care less that they’re gone, mainly because its five damn games.

by MRubio52 on Feb 28, 2010 8:32 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Rec x a billion.

It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147

We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.

-- yfBB

God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.

by fundamentallysound on Feb 28, 2010 7:31 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

I up your Rec by a gadzillion.

For details and reasons, see my post below.

If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard

by Tyrusmancrush on Feb 28, 2010 11:56 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

it's called "potential"

nobody expected “greatness” from Hinrich or Taj (I know I never did)…but people expected big things from TT. Not exactly fair, but it happens.

by NormVanBeer on Feb 28, 2010 8:05 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

But Kurt gets treated by the clueless fans and The Organization

like he is a great player.

We miss you, Tyrus Thomas and Ben Gordon!

by Granny Waiters on Feb 28, 2010 8:35 PM CST up reply actions  

i completely agree

but less is demanded because less is expected. He’s mediocre and when he does anything that even slightly resembles going above and beyond, the brass and its followers are going to applaud. It sucks…but it is what it is.

TT got the same treatment as Curry in my eyes. Both were oozing with potential and when they didn’t live up to it (while still playing decently) they were outcasted.

by NormVanBeer on Feb 28, 2010 10:38 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Wow...

Curry was signed to a year 6 year, $60M dollar deal upon is trade to NY…I would not consider that to be outcast…the Bulls wanted to keep him as a player, but he refused a heart test.

Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.

by Dionysus2.0 on Mar 1, 2010 8:14 AM CST up reply actions  

Actual conversation Saturday

Dad: I’m really glad the didn’t trade Hinrich. He brings so much to the table for them.
Sports2: Uh huh.
Dad: They just play better with him on the floor.
Sports2: You see him brick that shot?
Dad: Who would watch the Pacers?
Sports2: They’re getting pretty far ahead…

by Sports2 on Mar 1, 2010 8:51 AM CST up reply actions  

I expected plenty out of Kirk Hinrich, people are just lazy to call him out because of Derrick Rose.

Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

by Ozzie Montana on Feb 28, 2010 9:43 PM CST up reply actions  

They shoulda traded those two as well

I don’t like Kirk’s nine million dollar salary any more than anyone else does. I don’t think Taj has an amazing basketball IQ. They shoulda traded those guys when they had the chance.

Don’t lump me in with those that think Taj Gibson is Mr. smart basketball or that Kirk has “thrust.” Some people might react to those two getting traded the same way some people have reacted to the Tyrus trade, but honestly if they are not great, or have not helped you win a chip, there really isn’t much use in crying over those types of guys.

by MRubio52 on Feb 28, 2010 8:37 PM CST up reply actions  

Why trade Taj?

He is on a cheap rookie contract, and will be a serviceable reserve rotation player if the Bulls pick up a legitimate starting 4 over the summer.

We miss you, Tyrus Thomas and Ben Gordon!

by Granny Waiters on Feb 28, 2010 8:46 PM CST up reply actions  

You're right

got carried away with it.

Simply stating this: I won’t be crying if Kirk and Taj weren’t here. there are plenty of other reasons to be upset at the Org. Plenty of legitimate reasons to be pissed at Bulls management, but trading Tyrus is not one of them.

by MRubio52 on Feb 28, 2010 8:48 PM CST up reply actions  

BTW

Where is your tag from?

If we aren't careful, the leanness we now feel will be the starvation of those we serve.

by Chi 'Till I Die on Feb 28, 2010 8:48 PM CST up reply actions  

d'oh

plaud = either applaud or laud, whichever.

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on Feb 28, 2010 9:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Prospect theory by koszegi and Rabin states...

that utility is a combination of standard utility and gain-loss utility based on a specific reference point.
For those of you not studying for an econ test in 2 hrs, people initially expected more of Tyrus due to his high pick. I don’t know if thrust or hustle are involved in behavioral economics.

by Uncle Stanley McGoober on Mar 2, 2010 9:19 AM CST up reply actions  

I am right with you,

But it is just 5 games…if we judged Rose on 5 games earlier this season, we would have started getting flustered and thinking he won’t end up being very good….oh wait

by DRose01 on Feb 28, 2010 7:31 PM CST reply actions  

No, no, no. Vinny didn't want him to do that.

He wanted him to shoot jumpers. Grrrr….

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on Mar 1, 2010 11:03 AM CST up reply actions  

You accidently hit on the whole problem right there:

What’s so special about Tyrus that he has to be “convinced” to do anything?

hard pail lunch hat

by headphones on Mar 1, 2010 2:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Because the Bulls invested a high lottery pick in him and he's a ridiculous talent?

It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147

We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.

-- yfBB

God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.

by fundamentallysound on Mar 1, 2010 7:09 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

So...

If you’re a talented high lottery pick and want more minutes, temper-tantrums are ok?

hard pail lunch hat

by headphones on Mar 1, 2010 9:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Yes, because this isn't fucking high school.

Attitudes exist in pro sports, if you don’t like it then you should have stopped watching, oh 30 years ago.

Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

by Ozzie Montana on Mar 1, 2010 10:16 PM CST up reply actions  

Oh holy crap. I give up.

Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

by Ozzie Montana on Mar 1, 2010 11:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Temper tantrums are okay when you are better than the guy that's getting minutes over you and you consistently

demonstrate that and your coach refuses to play you anyway.

Plus, the Bulls’ job is to get the most out of Tyrus. They knew he was a little temperamental when they drafted him. They didn’t handle him right.

It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147

We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.

-- yfBB

God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.

by fundamentallysound on Mar 1, 2010 10:26 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Only if your definition of "handling him right"

means laying down to whatever his demands are.

hard pail lunch hat

by headphones on Mar 1, 2010 10:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Seriously

what are you talking about? What demands?

Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."

by bigballa10 on Mar 1, 2010 10:35 PM CST up reply actions  

Minutes.

If “handling him right” means giving him more minutes when he thinks he deserves them, then I guess he was “mishandled”. But that would make for a lot of “mishandled” pro athletes out there.

hard pail lunch hat

by headphones on Mar 1, 2010 10:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Not when he THINKS he deserves them, when he actually does.

He DID deserve the minutes. He was our best PF. This is what you’re not getting. It’s not like it was all in Tyrus’ head. He was our best player for the position and he knew it. To not get the minutes he should have both hurt the team (which pissed him off I’m sure) and hurt him (which probably pissed him off more).

He had every right to be pissed and he’s demonstrating why in Charlotte.

It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147

We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.

-- yfBB

God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.

by fundamentallysound on Mar 2, 2010 12:10 AM CST up reply actions  

He did have a right to be pissed

But he still acted like a baby by blowing up in the locker room. He should’ve done the professional thing and went to VDN’s office and aired his grievances behind closed doors where he wouldn’t be a distraction to the rest of the team.

by Poloplaya14 on Mar 2, 2010 9:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Even if he did do that, it doesn't excuse his tirade

Now I’m not condemning the guy for that one incident. We’re all human, and we all do regrettable things from time to time, but blowing up at your coach is a stupid immature stunt, no matter the circumstances.

by Poloplaya14 on Mar 3, 2010 1:10 AM CST up reply actions  

Salmons put up 32/8/4 in Atlanta tonight.

Fortunately, the Bucks blew the game in OT. But he’s been looking really good in Milwaukee.

Thrusting toward the playoffs, one game at a time.

by Illini15 on Feb 28, 2010 8:56 PM CST reply actions  

It's an organizational thing

Salmons shot terribly early on, that’s not Vinny’s fault. And Tyrus was screwed up before Vinny came along. It’s just ridiculous that we had to pay another team to take our guy who scored 18ppg efficiently last year, and all we could get for Tyrus is a protected mid-round 1st.

Had we traded Tyrus when his stock was hot last year (circa Amare rumor time), or Salmons when his stock was hot coming off of last year’s Boston series, I would think we could’ve gotten a high 1st for Tyrus (Randy Foye went for the #6 pick) and a future 1st for Salmons. Instead of selling high and maxing out value, the Bulls continue this half-assed “kinda go for the future while staying semi-competitive” idea. It hurts them.

by YaoPau on Feb 28, 2010 10:48 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

If Charlotte fizzles and stays in the lottery for a while, we could have more than a mid-rounder.

Correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t the protection on the pick go down each year? So if Charlotte remains a bottom-dweller for 5-6 years, we could get potentially even get a #1 draft choice.

by Poloplaya14 on Mar 2, 2010 10:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Salmons was playing better for the Bulls as the season got along

plus, we were dumping his contract. I don’t mind saying Salmons/Tyrus was better than what we got back, that’s the (neverending) price of flexibility.

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 1, 2010 9:23 AM CST up reply actions  

I am psyched for headband-laden Tyrus to be unleashed to the world in the playoffs.

Hide your women and children.

Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

by Ozzie Montana on Feb 28, 2010 9:52 PM CST reply actions  

I'm hoping

Tyrus turns it around in Charlotte and reaches his potential. But 5 games is not nearly enough to convince me of any kind of a turnaround. I’d like to see him over a full season. I want to see how he interacts with his teammates and reacts to non-Bulls coaching. I want to see what the teammates and coaches reaction will be if Tyrus starts loafing in practice, or getting upset with perceived slights to his ego. If Brown is good at babysitting and can get Tyrus to turn his act around, then I’m all for it. Here’s to hoping Tyrus doesn’t wear out his welcome as quickly in Charlotte as he did in the Bulls locker room.

"The people we lost, I'm sad we lost them because they helped us. But the organization saw something in these players. They're going to help us. They don't have any attitude problems. They just want to ball." - Derrick Rose

by leeac on Feb 28, 2010 11:04 PM CST reply actions  

Tyrus Update: Through 5 Games with Bobcats = 22.7 PER

Regression is a son of a bitch

by NittanyCub on Feb 28, 2010 11:30 PM CST reply actions  

There will be some regression to the mean, but not as much as you think. He's shooting near the basket a lot more

and his TS% has gone way, way up as a result. Other than that and increased (slightly) rebounding and shot blocking (10% Blk% can’t sustain, but he’s usually right around 5-6%), he’s essentially the same guy, with a longer leash.

Larry Brown has faith in him. I doubt that he continues to be a 22.7 PER guy, but I’ve no doubt that he’s got 18-19 in him, easy, with the continued interior defense and energy that we’ve seen. He needed a real coach. Instead he got a moron. Now he’s got a real coach.

It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147

We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.

-- yfBB

God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.

by fundamentallysound on Feb 28, 2010 11:41 PM CST up reply actions   2 recs

If Tyrus

regresses to somewhere near his Bulls PER at some point in the next year, would that mean that Larry Brown is also a moron?

"The people we lost, I'm sad we lost them because they helped us. But the organization saw something in these players. They're going to help us. They don't have any attitude problems. They just want to ball." - Derrick Rose

by leeac on Feb 28, 2010 11:45 PM CST up reply actions  

I'll deal with that when it happens. If LB starts jerking his minutes around irrationally and with no regard for how Tyrus is actually

playing like Vinny did, then I expect Bad Tyrus will come out. But I think LB is smarter than that.

It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147

We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.

-- yfBB

God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.

by fundamentallysound on Feb 28, 2010 11:46 PM CST up reply actions  

Tyrus had a 16.7 PER with the Bulls and led Taj in almost every category

while he was with the Bulls. Taj has a 14.0 PER. Is that why he played ahead of Tyrus and if so, doesn’t that make Vinny a moron?

If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard

by Tyrusmancrush on Mar 1, 2010 12:38 AM CST up reply actions   2 recs

He has played 134 minutes!

Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.

by Dionysus2.0 on Mar 1, 2010 8:20 AM CST up reply actions  

Long story short

We all know the Bulls had a shitty game against the Pacers, we saw it too…but pointing it out doesn’t advance any argument about Tyrus’ or Salmons’ recent performance on their respective teams. I’m not gonna defend Vinny for having not having a better solution than Pargo’s “instant offense” but it’s absurd to use the fact of Salmons doing better to buttress your argument about Tyrus. He’s scoring more because he’s taking more shots, and (sadly) he’s their most reliable shooter with Jennings tanking lately. Prior to the trade, was there a single person here suggesting that Vinny “maximize Salmons’ strengths” by letting him shoot 20+ attempts per game? They’d get laughed off or banned or worse.

hard pail lunch hat

by headphones on Mar 1, 2010 12:58 AM CST up reply actions  

This should be a fanpost.

We miss you, Tyrus Thomas and Ben Gordon!

by Granny Waiters on Mar 1, 2010 4:05 AM CST up reply actions  

Of flagged?

Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.

by Dionysus2.0 on Mar 1, 2010 8:21 AM CST up reply actions  

a flagged fanpost that gets reced 4 times

whoa…i just blew my mind…..

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!

by piccolomair on Mar 1, 2010 1:08 PM CST up reply actions  

"it’s absurd to use the fact of Salmons doing better to buttress your argument about Tyrus".

I didn’t use Fish to buttress my Tyrus argument, I used him to point out what a dunce Vinny is.

Tyrus’s PER is 21% higher than Gibson’s this season and apparently you didn’t place any value on the fact he leads all PF’s in the ENTIRE NBA in steals and blocks per minutes played or that his shooting % is .606 since December 20th when he was regaining his conditioning from the broken arm, but Vinny continued to insist Taj is the better player. The Bulls were 18-11 with Thomas and 13-17 without him. Does this tell you anything?

The further deterioration of our shooting guards puts added pressure on Rose. Vinny can’t expect him to bail us out every night so I think the trade may endanger our playoff chances if Wade recovers and the Bucks and Bobcats improve, although we still have a lot of home games left which should help us sneak in and now with Bosch injured, maybe Toronto will start heading south. Warrick is a huge dropoff defensively than Tyrus.

If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard

by Tyrusmancrush on Mar 1, 2010 1:18 AM CST reply actions  

"Tyrus’s PER is 21% higher than Gibson’s this season"

Sure…and it’s even higher than Boris Diaw’s. Does that make Larry Brown a dunce too? Good to see Tyrus having a couple good games in Charlotte, enjoy it while it lasts. We’ll see what happens once the headband euphoria wears off.

Whether or not Tyrus is better than Taj, the intelligent long-term decision was to invest in the future by giving the minutes to Taj (leading NBA rookies in blocks and rebounds per game btw) to let him develop, instead of handing them to guy who everyone knew was on his way out just for sake of pacifying him.

hard pail lunch hat

by headphones on Mar 1, 2010 1:40 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

No, the intellegent decision would have been to not let Tyrus lose his starting spot to

injuries. Give him decent minutes and let him build up his trade value up to the deadline. One thing Tyrus has proven is that given minutes he puts up decent numbers. Then maybe they could have gotten some real assets in return. Instead they jerked around his minutes made it clear to the rest of the league that they had no interest in keeping him and moved him for a poo poo platter.

Giving big minutes to Taj in his first NBA season while he is battling plantar fasciitis is a great idea. I’m sure he won’t hit a wall during the playoff push.

Brown is letting Tyrus earn the starting spot from Diaw. Tyrus is getting minutes and playing 4th quarters. I wouldn’t be surprised if he ends up starting soon.

by silentpete on Mar 1, 2010 9:15 AM CST up reply actions  

This.

There was no reason to not let Tyrus up his trade value and help the team win games. We’d have won more games with Tyrus getting the majority of the minutes, and his trade value would have increased.

The fact we couldn’t get the most of out of Tyrus is the most damning evidence in a mountain of it, that Vinny isn’t up to this task. I’m fine with losing Salmons for nothing, he was a proven commodity, but the Tyrus situation was a complete failure on our end.

by Grinder in Training on Mar 1, 2010 10:07 AM CST up reply actions  

Sticking to what I said above.

Even if Tyrus’ trade value were higher, it doesn’t change the fact the the Bulls were looking for expiring contracts. Chances are, whoever we got for him, whatever his value, would not be around in 2010, unlike Taj. Hate to say it, but it looks like VDN/Bulls Org. have more foresight than you can bring yourself to give him/them credit for.

hard pail lunch hat

by headphones on Mar 1, 2010 11:45 AM CST up reply actions  

Uh...

Tyrus was an expiring contract.

by kingj41 on Mar 1, 2010 11:58 AM CST up reply actions  

Transcription fail?
Chances are, whoever we got for him, whatever his value, would not be around in 2010, unlike Taj.

It seems your point is to invest in Taj. Ugh.

Even if Tyrus’ trade value were higher, it doesn’t change the fact the the Bulls were looking for expiring contracts.
Others’ points have been if you’re going to let a player go, you need to showcase what he can do to increase his value. Not only would the Bulls have won more (specifically an Atlanta game comes to mind), but his value would have been higher thus getting more in value. I would think an upgrade in overall talent or assets supersedes investing in Taj.

by kingj41 on Mar 1, 2010 12:09 PM CST up reply actions  

ARG!

Tyrus was an expiring contract. They renounce his rights at the end of the season and BAM, cap space.

They traded him for assets. Half a season of Flip Murray and Acie Law and a conditional first round lottery protected pick.

All they had to do was keep their Tyrus hate on the down low for 2 months and give him minutes. Best case scenario, Tyrus puts up good numbers, raises his trade value, helps with the playoff push and you move him for a much better deal. Maybe get the rights to tiago splitter, maybe get a non lotto protected pick, maybe use him in a package to move Hinrich and free up enough space for two max FAs, whatever.

Worst case scenario, Tyrus puts up numbers similar to Taj, doesn’t help the playoff push, but you still move him for a better deal because folks around the league think he has value to the Bulls and they aren’t moving him for the sake of moving him.

by silentpete on Mar 1, 2010 12:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Taj can still get minutes to develop and you're no longer pushing your luck

by having him play big minutes with plantar facitis. They already lost their best big man by having him try to play through it, do you really want to see Taj go down to?

by silentpete on Mar 1, 2010 12:11 PM CST up reply actions  

If "All they had to do was keep their Tyrus hate on the down low"

Then Tyrus didn’t help his cause much. Long term, Tyrus losing trade value is a lot better than sending the message “Sure, we’re an organization that tolerates temper tantrums from anyone who thinks they’re to good for the role they’re assigned.”

hard pail lunch hat

by headphones on Mar 1, 2010 2:50 PM CST up reply actions  

If he was playing

where would the temper tantrum have come from?

Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."

by bigballa10 on Mar 1, 2010 5:12 PM CST up reply actions  

So any player who doesn't get the minutes they think they deserve

is entitled to throw a fit? Or just players with “upside”? What is it about Tyrus that almost everyone here sympathizes with? It doesn’t matter what job you have, NBA or Wendy’s, you don’t get to curse out a superior without consequences, no matter how “right” you think you are.

hard pail lunch hat

by headphones on Mar 1, 2010 5:41 PM CST up reply actions  

He played better than the people in front of him, consistently, but still got jerked around. We saw it and are pissed about it.

No surprise he would have been pissed, too.

It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147

We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.

-- yfBB

God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.

by fundamentallysound on Mar 1, 2010 7:10 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

In the real world you can't lay into your boss without consequences?

Even when your boss is obviously incompetent, has a grudge against you, and is doing everything he can to make your life miserable? Even when there is McDonald’s, Arby’s, Hardees, and 26 other burger chains willing to give you the same pay, but let you work more consistant hours. Heck, some of them are even floating the idea that they might let you climb the corporate ladder. I’ve been a situation like that, and the only reason why I didn’t burn my bridges is because I wanted to keep a reference. Tyrus doesn’t need references he has tape.

I’ll tell you what Tyrus’s consequences are. He moved to a warmer city. Is getting the minutes he wants. He is putting up the numbers that will get him a nice fat contract (today 29 minutes, 16 points, 12 reb, 2 blocks). I’d say it worked out pretty well. I bet he wished he cussed at Vinny last year.

by silentpete on Mar 1, 2010 9:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Where is the evidence to support

That Vinny had a grudge or personal vendetta against Tyrus and was doing everything he could to make his life miserable? Do reduced minutes alone prove this?

hard pail lunch hat

by headphones on Mar 1, 2010 10:05 PM CST up reply actions  

Tyrus sank a bunch of jump shots to win an OT game in the playoffs then something happened.

Tyrus stopped seeing meaningful minutes in 4th quarter. Tyrus lost his starting job to injury despite coming back and putting up good numbers. He played well and didn’t get rewarded with more minutes. Noah and Taj both had injuries and were playing limited minutes, and he still couldn’t on floor. Then he blew up and vinny and the rest is history.

by silentpete on Mar 1, 2010 10:36 PM CST up reply actions  

So...this constitutes "making his life miserable"?

And what about the “something happened” part? Care to elaborate? Can’t because you don’t really know, just like anyone not on the team? Where does this “grudge” come from? To say VDN had a grudge against TT is to suggest that he’s basically saying “I don’t care about winning games, I just want to fuck this kid over”…do you guys really believe that?

hard pail lunch hat

by headphones on Mar 1, 2010 10:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Okay so Vinny didn't have a grudge, but was merely incompetent?

I don’t see any reason for that to make Tyrus less frustrated.

He played his ass off and better than anyone else on the team at his position and yet because he got hurt, he lost his position and minutes to an inferior player.

It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147

We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.

-- yfBB

God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.

by fundamentallysound on Mar 2, 2010 12:11 AM CST up reply actions  

Are you saying Vinny was incompetent just because he

played LIndsey Hunter ahead of Tyrus at the 5 in game 7 of the playoffs last year in the 4th quarter. I don’t consider that incompetence, I consider it sheer madness.

If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard

by Tyrusmancrush on Mar 2, 2010 12:41 AM CST up reply actions  

I didn't justify that

it was unprofessional. My point was they were saying he should be playing and that would have helped the team and raise his trade value. You said he didn’t help himself with the tantrum. I’m just saying there wouldn’t be a tantrum if they were playing him in the first place. I’m not saying he was justified at all in doing that.

Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."

by bigballa10 on Mar 1, 2010 10:12 PM CST up reply actions  

rec'd

for implying tyrus needed a pacifier.

"The people we lost, I'm sad we lost them because they helped us. But the organization saw something in these players. They're going to help us. They don't have any attitude problems. They just want to ball." - Derrick Rose

by leeac on Mar 1, 2010 9:22 AM CST up reply actions  

Tyrusmancrush, where else would you like me to respond to you?

Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

by Ozzie Montana on Mar 1, 2010 1:34 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

I think I'm just going to start flagging.

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on Mar 1, 2010 1:52 PM CST up reply actions  

...making it impossible

to see your comment in context…

by YaoPau on Mar 1, 2010 1:58 PM CST up reply actions   2 recs

It's not that hard

to figure out the reply button. Even Tyrus could figure it out.

"What do you think, I just dunked my whole career?" Jordan asked Henderson after making a 3.
"You’ve got to miss eventually," Henderson told him.
"That’s what Cleveland said," replied Jordan

by MRubio52 on Mar 1, 2010 2:10 PM CST up reply actions  

haha

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 1, 2010 3:05 PM CST up reply actions  

Tyrus didn't need a pacifier, he just needed a real coach.

Taj didn’t need a pacifier either, because he could always suck up to Vinny any time he needed some love.

If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard

by Tyrusmancrush on Mar 1, 2010 11:57 AM CST reply actions  

reply button, reply button, reply button (!)

Thrusting toward the playoffs, one game at a time.

by Illini15 on Mar 1, 2010 12:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Tyrusmancrush:Reply button

Tyrus Thomas:18 foot jumpshots.

Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

by Ozzie Montana on Mar 1, 2010 12:17 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm confused by your obsessing about my use (or non-use) as you see it, of the reply button.

I was directly responding to leeacs remark about Tyrus needing a pacifier. My comment appeared directly below his. Where would you prefer it appear? Seriously, am I seeing things in an alternative universe, because in my world, it landed exactly where it was targeted.

If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard

by Tyrusmancrush on Mar 1, 2010 12:49 PM CST up reply actions  

I can't believe this is still going on

Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."

by bigballa10 on Mar 1, 2010 5:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Tyrus needed a pacifier and a lot more.

It is all about the individual and taking responsibility for your own actions. If Tyrus couldnt motivate his ass to get it together then it is on him!

by Playboy_BullV on Mar 1, 2010 1:22 PM CST up reply actions  

OK. First of all, I HIT THE REPLY BUTTON right under your post PLAYBOY. If it winds up somewhere else, than you might as well perform a lobotomy one me.

But you’ll have to pay for the operattion since my insurance doesn’t cover cosmetic surguries.

What if Tyrus was motivating his ass trying to show Vinny he was getting it together but our coach refused to acknowledge his efforts. I’m not saying this was the case, since neither you or I or anyone else on this blog, that I’m aware of, has access to the Bulls inner circle.

So isn’t it also possible that no matter how much you’re motivating your ass to impress an asshole it winds up just being a waste of time and energy. Most of us have expefrienced that on some level. Sometimes others just hate your guts regardless of what a nice guy you are. In fact, I have gotten negative vibes myself on this blog even though almost all my comments are filled with sweetness and light along with solid constructive criticism to those who remain blind to all of Tyrus’s many virtues.

If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard

by Tyrusmancrush on Mar 1, 2010 5:55 PM CST up reply actions  

LOL

nah, you got it this time :-D

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 1, 2010 6:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Bulls could have used Tyrus tonight.

Ben Gordon too.

We miss you, Tyrus Thomas and Ben Gordon!

by Granny Waiters on Mar 1, 2010 9:49 PM CST reply actions  

Hell, they could have even used the "Corpse" tonight. At least he can still rebound.

If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard

by Tyrusmancrush on Mar 2, 2010 12:45 AM CST up reply actions  

Tyrus for the 6th straight game played the entire 4th quarter tonight. If this keeps up

he may wind up asking Larry Brown to bench him in the closing minutes so he can take a breather once in awhile. I guess LB just doesn’t trust anyone else to be in there at crunch time, apparently afraid they might make a mistake which could cost the team, so he sticks with heady players who won’t panic under pressure. You know, like Tyrus.

As an aside, can anyone tell me what plays the Bulls were running tonight, other than watching Kirk make crop circles before launching up another brick or passing to Brad in the high post who would then either shoot or give it back to Rose to attempt one of his acrobatic moves in isolation? Please tell me, confused and inquiring minds want to know. At least when Pargo’s in, we all know another roadrunner moment is coming with nothing much to show for it.

If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard

by Tyrusmancrush on Mar 2, 2010 12:56 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm still going to wait a bit before calling the TT era in Charlotte a success,

but it definitely looks that way at the moment. He’s even getting played, like, big minutes. It’s CrAzY!!!!!!

Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!

by Prevenge on Mar 2, 2010 8:18 AM CST reply actions  

Down to 22.1....

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on Mar 2, 2010 10:51 AM CST reply actions  

oh, Tyrus

another good game last night, but this was bad. (via NBAPlaybook)

Brown sat him way too long in the second half, IMO. He had a solid first half and the Bobcats were dying out there, and Tyrus doesn’t check in until 2min. left in the quarter.

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 2, 2010 10:57 AM CST reply actions  

he did play the entire rest of the game though

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 2, 2010 10:58 AM CST up reply actions  

Tyrus will make the occasional dumb play, we know that. But he's still a huge positive

in the aggregate (the argument you’ve made a zillion times about him, so I know I’m not telling you anything new) and you’ve got to allow him to make those mistakes to get the most out of him that you can. Let him play through his mistakes, figure things out, and point out to him when he’s being a knucklehead without sitting him on the bench and he’ll show up for you.

Kirk Hinrich sucks. The end.

by fundamentallysound on Mar 2, 2010 2:00 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree

but I couldn’t help but feel a bit better watching him knowing that the bad shots didn’t hurt my team, yet I could revel in his success. :)

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 2, 2010 2:48 PM CST up reply actions  

game 7

and now tyrus’ p.e.r. is all the way down to 21.8, heading south baby!

wooh! go gar paxdorf!

"Let's do some living... after we die"

by marionette on Mar 4, 2010 2:08 PM CST reply actions  

Tyrus love is incredible?

Thabet claimed D-leaguer honor, Tyrus should have long held that record until Thabet claimed it.

How long will some wait until “a now” 24 year older learn’s some of a expected already fundamentals of playing team BB?

"I tried being reasonable, I didn't like it."
"Go ahead, make my day"
"We boil at different degrees"
"A good man always knows his limitations"
"You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?"

by exult463 on Mar 4, 2010 2:50 PM CST reply actions  

here we go again

Sorry, im not even going to respond.

by aznlildelfin on Mar 4, 2010 7:20 PM CST up reply actions  

huh?

you did just respond.

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 5, 2010 12:29 AM CST up reply actions  

Are you talking about Taj or Tyrus? I assume you meant Taj, since he's 24 and is 14 months older than the young stallion, Tyrus.

What is it about statistics measuring peformance, you and the other Tyrus deniers don’t understand? i think you and others on this blog are suffering from a case of Tyrusstatdenial. This ailment whose main sympton is seeing things as you fantasize them to be, rather than the way they really are, can be cured without the need to take powerful medications. It requires to simply observe all facets of the game rather than just concentrate on those events that coincide with your preconceived prejudices.

I wish Vinny and the suits would have found the cure but they refused to admit they had a problem.

If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard

by Tyrusmancrush on Mar 5, 2010 3:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Tyrusmancrush .. one of the most elegant BaB writers of all time..

I can’t compare with you nor win an argument in elegance of words.

Yet, aside from stats, it always appears like he (Tyrus) should have knocked off the scarecrow and been on the yellow brick road with Dorothy!.

I hope Charlotte is closer to OZ moreso than Chicago was.

I just wished that Neil “#1 Tyrus critic” Funk would also leave town at trade deadline.

"I tried being reasonable, I didn't like it."
"Go ahead, make my day"
"We boil at different degrees"
"A good man always knows his limitations"
"You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?"

by exult463 on Mar 5, 2010 11:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Does Charlotte keep Tyrus?

It will be interesting to see if Charlotte offers Tyrus the qualifying offer. With a $55,000,000 cap I do not see Charlotte being able to sign Tyrus without losing Felton. I believe Felton is an unrestricted free agent. If they sign Tyrus to the qualifying offer Charlotte would be over the cap at $59,536,980 not allowing them to sign Felton. An interesting dilemma for the Bobcats who I believe are 1 – 4 since getting Tyrus.

by chgobr on Mar 5, 2010 2:18 PM CST reply actions  

yup, they are going to be close to the tax next season

usually a player going on the QO (like Felton) means he’s gone, but Brown really hates Augustin so they could retain Tyrus.

I’ll let the ‘1-4’ comment slide.

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 5, 2010 2:32 PM CST up reply actions  

It's actually 2 and 5 and this is all Tyrus's fault, just as the bulls 3 game skid is all Rose's fault.

None of these slides had anything to do with both teams losing their centers where in Charoltte’s case, they lost 3. But as every basketball expert knows, the 5 position is irrelevant in determining a team’s success. For example, just look at the Cav’s to prove my point.

Damn that Rose, get your act together dude, before the season goes south. Lindsey, earn your salary by mentoring this guy who’s hurting the team right now in so may ways with his selfish, all for me, stat padding play.

If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard

by Tyrusmancrush on Mar 5, 2010 3:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Why can't they keep both?

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on Mar 7, 2010 9:11 AM CST up reply actions  

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