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Requiem for a Swiss

Amidst all of the rending of garments and gnashing of teeth that has accompanied the recent trade of Tyrus Thomas, and hearkening back to the despair following the departure of Ben Gordon, I thought I would remind us all of a smaller move that caused me much more consternation. Yes, I am one of those heretics that approved of both the Gordon and Thomas moves, and if you think that makes me dumber than un-buttered toast, well, you can tell me about it in the comments of another recent FanPost of mine. The truth is, my favorite Bulls are, in some order, Rose, Hinrich, Deng and Noah; I believe Gibson has proven himself as a solid NBA player and will be a wonderful backup if/when we get an All-Star PF; and I applauded getting rid of players who were valued for the performances they were capable of over the performances they consistently supplied.

But that is not why we are here today. No, today we mourn the short Bulls tenure of the 13th overall pick in the 2006 NBA draft, Thabo Sefolosha. Now here's the point where some may say, Ah-ha! You want to talk about how Gordon and Thomas were "potential over production" and then praise Sefolosha? Well, yes, I do.

Thabo3_medium

 

Do I contradict myself? Very well then, I contradict myself. I am large- I contain multitudes.

 

Thabo was with us for two and a half years, and in that time offered around 16 minutes, 5 points, 3 rebounds and a steal per game. Not exactly eye-popping numbers, obviously. He was, in many ways, an extreme version of Hinrich. Outstanding defense (even those who dismiss hustle and the sort of defense that "looks like" good defense will, I believe, concede this point) combined with offense that was atrociously bad and a penchant for dribbling holes in the floor as the shot-clock whiled its way from 17 to 4.

With the tragic passing of the Skiles era, it became clear that this all-defense, no-offense guard had worn out his welcome, and with Rose coming in, and the widespread (if foolish) belief that we would soon have a glut in the backcourt (everyone remember the salad days of JamesOn Curry?), we dealt him to Oklahoma City for the pick that would become Taj.

Why was I upset to lose such a marginal piece? Because, honestly, he seemed like the kind of guy who plays a key role on winning teams. Guys like Doug Christie, Bruce Bowen, James Posey, Derek Fisher before he hit his tapioca and bingo phase, all of these players chipped in, knew what they were supposed to do and did it. Teams win with two to three clearly defined Best Guys and a five to seven man support crew. On the Jordan teams, it was obviously Jordan-Pippen-Grant/Rodman and Everybody Else. This is not to disparage the Everybody Else- they were absolutely vital to fill in the gaps, check their egos at the door and work like hell to make sure everything was taken care of. That's why I can't stand guys like Gordon and Thomas: they'll never be a Best Guy and they can't stomach the notion of being a member of Everybody Else.

Sefolosha is now with the Thunder, where he has a definite shot to be a key Everybody Else man to Durant, Green and Westbrook's Best Guys. He has held onto his starting spot despite competition from James Harden, which, given Harden's lottery pedigree and the inevitable pressure to start the guy who makes serious bank over the random Swiss dude, is a pretty big accomplishment. He's been a key (although not large) part of the Thunder's defensive turnaround and was mentioned early on by ESPN as a candidate for Defensive Player of the Year (granted, that's sort of laughable, but still).

I guess what I'm trying to say is this. It's now the 2011 Playoffs. We've signed Wade, and he's gelled beautifully with the team. We're in the Eastern Conference Finals against Cleveland, it's Game 7, and we're all knotted up down the stretch. As LeBron proceeds to dismantle us piece by piece, there will be many bemoaning the loss of Tyrus, yelling "If we still had TT this never would have happened!" And I will agree with them- there's no way we would've made the Conference Finals. I, on the other hand, will be bemoaning the fact that the perfect player to stop LeBron, who was on our roster and was ready to grow up to be a latter-day Michael Cooper, is instead with the Western Conference Champion Thunder, and waiting to accompy Durant and Co. into battle against whoever wins the game we're all fictionally viewing. That, my friends, will be a dark day.

 

PS. The one positive I take out of all of this is that we got Taj in exchange for him. I've heard all the "lunch pail hard hat" complaints about him, and there are many I agree with, but some part of him still sees him as a charter member of Everybody Else for the 2012-2013 NBA Champion Chicago Bulls.

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Comment 19 comments  |  4 recs  | 

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This, however, is a pretty good fanpost if I ignore the parts about Ben and Tyrus

I was always a fan of Thabo’s. Shame to see him go, but thank god we wound up getting some value back for him.

"Make good basketball plays!"
-VDN

by penguin1 on Feb 26, 2010 6:29 AM CST up reply actions  

I don't know anything about

what kind of guys these are, you’re right. I don’t know who plays cards with who, and who’s secretly a raging douche bag. Gordon could be Gandhi, Thomas could be Mother Theresa and Florence Nightengale wrapped into one. I don’t know (but I kind of doubt it).

All I know is how they play. With Thomas, I think it’s more cut and dried- he always thought he was the best player on the Bulls, and deserved more than he was given. I saw an interview with him once where he talked about wanting to be at the level of LeBron and Kobe. Now, ordinarily, I’d be in favor of that kind of drive, but in this case it seemed to match what I’d seen on the floor- he overevaluates his talents, and that leads to a host of other problems.

With Gordon, it’s less cut-and-dried. There is a strong argument to be made that Gordon jacking up shots all the time actually was what our team needed in his first years with the Bulls. My hesitations with him were his reluctance to come off the bench (although I do agree that later on he was better about it) and his behavior beside Rose last year. He seemed constitutionally incapable of passing Rose the freaking ball, even when it had become clear our offense worked best when going through him. That made me more sure in the diagnosis that Gordon was always going to be looking for his shot at the expense of his teammates, whether he was a better option than them or not.

Will everyone stop hating on Deng, please?

by Chalkwhite on Feb 26, 2010 10:19 AM CST up reply actions  

WHERE WAS HIS RELUCTANCE TO COME OFF THE BENCH!?!?!

Other than the damned generic, “Of course I’d like to be starting, but I’ll try hard at whatever role I’m given.” where do you come off to re-writing history?!?!

Gordon didn’t complain about coming off the bench.

And I don’t believe you know what sort of offense the Bulls were running. It was not clear that it ran better through Rose; he was a rookie PG who had little passing skills, couldn’t shoot threes and didn’t like to draw fouls. The offense was better when going through Gordon.

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on Feb 26, 2010 11:34 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

The offense was better when going "through" Gordon?

When did the offense go through him? The offense went TO him. He was not a point guard, he didn’t drive the paint and kick it to open three point shooters, he didn’t bring the ball up. Look, I was a big Gordon fan until the last couple years of his tenure, but he was a scorer. When he got the ball, he was looking to score, and he rarely passed to teammates in scoring position. He had almost exactly as many turnovers as assists while he was on the Bulls: his assist-to-turnover ratio was 1.2. Again, I didn’t hate the guy, but our offense never flowed through him.

As for the early point, and just to prove I’m not a random internet asshole, I looked for evidence of Gordon’s complaining and failed to find any. You seem to be correct. I’m not sure where I got the idea that he was unhappy with a bench role. I have a strong memory of it, but since there’s no evidence, I must just be crazy.

Will everyone stop hating on Deng, please?

by Chalkwhite on Feb 26, 2010 12:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Sam and K.C. said it a lot after various times of not signing, but never gave a quote or even said it off the record.

It was like what they said about Salmons in the last couple of weeks: “He’s even more pissed about being on the bench that Thomas is.” Wait, what? Really? Is there a quote in there? Hyperbole? Just making it up so you can follow it with “but he’s acting much more professional than the malcontent Thomas.”

It’s crap.

I appreciate you looking, though. Very, very much so.

For Gordon, last year, it was 1.375 AST:TO. It was 2.54 for Rose. This year, Rose is down to 2.07. Would you say the offense is flowing through him less? BTW, how many assists did Rose get because he was able to kick it to a guy who could make a shot, as opposed to Gordon kicking to Rose who rarely took a spot-up shot? Rose got 1.7 asst/gm outside of the 3-pt line. Gordon got .6, greater than twice as many. Rose got 4.6 from inside the 3-pt line, and Gordon, 2.8. I think the offense ran better when Gordon was getting the ball.

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on Feb 26, 2010 2:10 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

I still feel like you're making a pretty big logical jump based on random prejudice

I don’t see how

All I know is how they play
and
he always thought he was the best player on the Bulls, and deserved more than he was given
can be in the same paragraph.

"Make good basketball plays!"
-VDN

by penguin1 on Feb 26, 2010 3:49 PM CST up reply actions  

Considering we got Taj with that pick

I wouldnt bemoan the loss of Sefolosha too much.

Besides, those glue guys (Bowen and Posey) may seem invaluable on championship teams, they are often considered overpaid on non-contending teams. See Posey with the Hornets.

by VaderMaul on Feb 26, 2010 8:10 AM CST reply actions  

MINUTES

You need to play more to perform better and his getting more minutes with the thunder than he did with the bulls. It work out better for the bulls because the bulls have taj with the pick for sefolsha and i think taj is a better player than he is right now in his first year in the league.

by Jermal on Feb 26, 2010 8:17 AM CST reply actions  

Hinrich is already locked into a big contract

And is far far far better offensively and yes dare I say it defensively.

Thabo had some tools, but kind of sucks. The ONLY reason he’s being praised is because the OKC is surprisingly winning and he plays next to the likely #2 or #3 real MVP this year in the absolutely unstoppable Kevin Durant.

Without Durant next to him, all Thabo’s big D (Rose absolutely torched him you may recall in their last outing) would be ignored and the fact that he can’t do anything else and is almost a guard version of Wallace offensively (he’s better offensively than Wallace, but as a guard plays a position that requires more O looks from otuside and in so for his position he ain’t far off) he could be detraction.

I’d say Taj Gibson > Thabo already.

I had seen the stars thinking Thabo could become a Scottie light, but that was because we were marketed into thinking he had huge O upside. He doesn’t.

Move on.

Thabo’s a decent role player, or could be good in a gulp young Adrian Griffin mode….but that’s about all he is. He ain’t a Bruce Bowen type defensively…..thoguh he can have some really good D games, I’d take Hinrich’s D over his 95% of the time, and you add HInrich’s O and it’s not a question (but Kirk makes too much dough for his role on our team)…

Ok Stacey I'm am so sick of hearing the "Hard Hat and Lunch Pail" nickname for Taj. Enough already, wasn't funny the first time, but you now say it 15-20 times per broadcast. It's enough to make me want to hate Taj, when I don't hate Taj.

by majoyenrac on Feb 26, 2010 8:44 AM CST reply actions  

I thought Thabo could have been a Christie-esque player. Thabo just sucks at shooting. He is actually a really good playmaker, good rebounder, plus defender but he can’t score at all. If he could ever learn to shoot, then he would have been just what we needed at SG. But alas, he is awful at shooting.

by C Smoove on Feb 26, 2010 10:14 AM CST reply actions  

I could have cared less when he left, because he still hasn't improved on any area besides defense.

OKC’s offense consists of either Kevin Durant being awesome, or his teammates being stupid and ignoring Kevin Durant so they can take shots. Yeah, when you have a team like that Thabo looks nice at SG. Just like Taj, he’ll be a fine bench player for years, get tons of love from commentators, etc.

Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

by Ozzie Montana on Feb 26, 2010 10:21 AM CST reply actions  

Exactly

Thabo had potential and got played ahead of better guards on the roster in Chicago. Had he developed a jumper and 3pt shot he probably would’ve stayed in Chicago, or given time until his contract expired. If he was still with the Bulls then that lack of jumper would sink him. There is no one other than Rose that can consistently create his own offense (or until recently with Kirk, hit an open J).

Admittedly, I haven’t watched much Thunder action, so I don’t know if he’s improved his J. But I would assume not, out of lack of necessity. They have Durant performing at a ridiculous offensive pace and Westbrook, another guy who controls the ball and can make his own offense. There is a spot for a defensive specialist on that team, and Thabo fits that role.

All your base are belong to Vinny.

by BCs71 on Feb 26, 2010 12:18 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

If he would've

developed any consistant offense, he would still be in Chicago

by QUINTEN DALEY on Mar 1, 2010 3:39 PM CST up reply actions  

I liked Thabo

but trading him for the pick that ended up being Taj has worked out better. I remember at our defensive peak how he hounded D Wade into a horrible series a few years back. His biggest problem, as others have already mentioned, is that he can’t knock down open shots. The difference between him and Doug Christie, Bruce Bowen, James Posey, Derek Fisher, and Michael Cooper is that every single one of those guys were able to hit the open 3’s and Thabo still can’t. If he works on that, he could be in that company.

Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."

by bigballa10 on Feb 26, 2010 10:53 AM CST reply actions  

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