Bulls destroying bad teams like the Skiles days
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 21, 2010 3:47 PM CST
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PrintPoint differential matters, and one significant worry in the team's bad start was that they were not only losing games, but had a differential suggesting they were even worse than their record. But as seems to be this franchise's recent history, they get better as the season goes along. So while the post-All-Star schedule has been kind, having two complete blowouts over the Knicks and Sixers at home while winning on the road in New York and Minnesota in five days is very impressive.
So impressive that VDN is now back to being lauded, or at least removed from the firing line. I think this is just as reactionary as calls for his firing in the early part of the season, when it was very unlikely the slow-to-do-anything Bulls front office would make a coaching change. VDN was bad then, he's bad now. But his know-nothingness helps in that he has a tight rotation of high-character (and even moreso now with the guy screaming at him, and the other guy reportedly upset with his benching, being gone) guys who are going to always give an effort. They may not have a high ceiling with this talent, and VDN wouldn't get them there if they did, but he is not a team-killer like those who overcoach either.
Huge news that Joakim Noah made his return (albeit for 6 minutes) last night, since I don't think we had even been given a timetable on his return. I was not able to give my full attention to the past two games (if you couldn't tell), but while I wish I had a better impression of the new additions, it seems like avoiding the local broadcast when it concerns these new additions saved some headaches as well. It looks statistically and though anecdotal observations that both Warrick and Murray are contributing in as expected, though the team as a whole has performed better than I expected (albeit through two games). We got this.
As little as I want to give credit to chemistry mumbo-jumbo, I think there is something to a new-personnel boost, and it helps that guys with uncertain futures like Thomas (RFA) and Salmons (player-option) are replaced with guns for hire who know they’ll be gone, as long as the talent is somewhat equal (which it is).
Special credit to Taj Gibson last night for avenging his worst game of the season when he was dominated by the Sixers front line. There's a difference between 'coming around' on Taj, and acknowledging that he's playing better as the season comes on. It was right to mock the praise (and elevation to the starting unit) when he started out his NBA career quite terribly, but he's improved his defensive rebounding and I think him and Warrick are a capable platoon in the PF spot.
The schedule stays relatively easy for this week, and with the Bobcats and Bucks seemingly improving themselves this could be a fun playoff race. Clearly this boost can't last too long, and I'll reserve judgement on how much the Bulls helped or hurt themselves on the court in the trade deadline, but these wins won't be taken away even if some adversity creeps up later. If Wade is out for an extended time it should be the Heat that are in the most danger of missing out of the playoffs, and that's really a best-case scenario entering 2010 free agency.
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Still leaves the 4 as the weakest position on the team.
At the very least a big banger is needed in the rotation (assuming neither Bosh nor Amaré is signed this summer).
I think him [Gibson] and Warrick are a capable platoon in the PF spot.
We miss you, Tyrus Thomas and Ben Gordon!
well something has to be weakest, otherwise we'd be out of the mediocrity scrum of the league
Warrick’s obviously gone after this year.
As little as I want to give credit to chemistry, I think there is something to a new-personnel boost, and it helps that guys with uncertain futures like Thomas (RFA) and Salmons (player-option) are replaced with guns for hire who know they’ll be gone.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 21, 2010 3:59 PM CST up reply actions
in fact, I'll update this post with that :)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 21, 2010 3:59 PM CST up reply actions
I just hate too see otherwise mediocre 'big bodies" having their way against the Bulls
since both Taj and Hakim make Noah look like Charles Oakley.
We miss you, Tyrus Thomas and Ben Gordon!
by Granny Waiters on Feb 21, 2010 4:05 PM CST up reply actions
Warrick’s obviously gone after this year.
Why’s that? He can be a slightly-worse-to-equal option than Miller, and at a low price.
If a) There’s no interest from another club and b) the Bulls go over the cap by signing a max free agent/other lesser players, they could potentially sign Warrick to a Non Bird exception. 120% of current salary, plus 8% every subsequent year; I wouldn’t be opposed to a 3 yr/13.1
well he's obviously a free agent
I won’t care about anyone until that max guy gets here, and I don’t think the team is either, and the players likely realize it.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 21, 2010 4:21 PM CST up reply actions
i think there is a chance that either Warrick or Murray is back next year
With the big targets being LBJ, Wade, Johnson (meh), or Bosh, that means if all goes according to the Org.‘s plan, we’ll have a new PF or SG. I could see them re-signing either Warrick or Murray rather than going out into free agent land again to fill the opposite hole. Not to say that is the best option, but Warrick and Murray are Org. guys now!
Why aren't they selling Rose's all star jersey?
There are many around here...
Who would argue the weakest link is SG…with Hinrich and Murray.
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
Hinrich is better than Taj and Warrick
Unless Warrick finally sees the light that Tyrus never saw (and I’ve always liked Warrick).
Sadly....through thick and thin....
It was fun to see a PF set up on the block and actually score, albeit on the corpse of Elton Brand.
I think as Bulls fans we are only allowed to see that once a month.
What was impressive about the new guys is their willingness to pass. Salmons was a decent player, but it really puts into perspective how much of a ball-hog he was when you appreciate Flip Murray. As for Warrick, he runs the break so that’s good to see. If Noah was healthy, I wouldn’t be worrying about making the playoffs at all. Brad is trying, and Kirk is having his typical 2nd half shooting surge.
Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
ha, yes on salmons
Flip Murray has a similar rep but he looks so far to be more about the Org.‘s vaunted ’ball movement’ than Salmons. It was also quite clear when Kirk took his starting job.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 21, 2010 4:04 PM CST up reply actions
I don't know if you watched last night...
But that ball movement was pretty…I am just saying, I have missed seeing a series of crisp passes to find the open player who makes the shot.
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
i think it puts into perspective where my life is when i appreciate flip murry.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
by TheMoon on Feb 21, 2010 4:04 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
heh, i appreciate anyone
who’s posterization of Kurt lives in infamy
but seriously…he definitely seems to be night and day in comparisons to Salmons black hole-ish ways…so far anyway.
At worst the trade is a wash, so it should work out for the remainder of the season…no need to get excited about beating teams who they SHOULD be IMO
Yeah ... next to a ball-stopper like Salmons
even Flip Murray can be seen as a facilitator
by drew gooden's facial growth on Feb 21, 2010 4:30 PM CST up reply actions
not to mention Rose has continued to be Rose
Why aren't they selling Rose's all star jersey?
Warrick definitely seems more "polished" than Thomas
Nowhere near the tenacious defender on weakside defense, but he does seem to have much better post moves and a more efficient passes.
His assist% will probably go down, but it was nice to see that type of play for a 4, even if it was against the ’6ers
hey thanks for putting up a new post
and speaking of new personnel boost…..how about salmons in milwaukee? i think they make the playoffs now, and call me crazy but i think the heat are going to be left out with toronto, the bulls, charlotte, and the bucks all making it in. hopefully that happens and dwade is so upset he leaves the heat and comes here……
Practice beats talent when talent doesn't practice.
also because miami games are boring as hell.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
by TheMoon on Feb 21, 2010 4:25 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
seriously.
I’m not sure how the crowds are in Charlotte now that they win games, but I remember watching the Bulls there last season, and everything above the semi-filled 100 level was empty. And Miami has a nice city, but seriously some of the worst fans i’ve ever seen. Who the hell shows up to playoff games in the 2nd quarter and leaves mid 4th?
Why aren't they selling Rose's all star jersey?
i dont blame them. i hate watching miami play.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
its called 'Cuban time'
we went out for pizza after the game. -dave wannstedt
by BULLieving in Miami on Feb 21, 2010 6:27 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Its not just the Heat
Miami fans have to be among the most front-runningest, bandon-wagonest, or whatever *est word you can think of. When the Heat were good, the place was packed and they had a real “homecourt” advantage.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
Yeah
same with the Marlins
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
Lotta transplants in Miami and Atlanta
Not much loyalty
"What are you doing Dragic?!"
There are a lot
of Chicagioans in Chicago, Turner Field is full of Cubs jerseys when they play the Braves
by QUINTEN DALEY on Feb 22, 2010 12:13 PM CST up reply actions
No transplants in Chicago? Or New York?
My theory is if you live in Miami, there are a billion other things to do than root for the Heat. Like, snort lines of coke, commit multiple homicides, and mingle with attractive women.
Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 22, 2010 12:46 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
all in one night if you're a present or former Hurricane.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 22, 2010 12:47 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
haha
Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 22, 2010 12:53 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Nah....the fans only get behind winners
I’ve lived down here over 15 yrs (after moving from Chicago). Having many things to do is correct, and it probably hurts that the area isn’t as densely populated as say NYC or Chicago, but its amazing what happens when one of the local teams has a shot at winning something. The atmosphere is great when the teams are doing well, but that fades into oblivion the moment the word “title” goes from possible to unlikely.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
I don't think Wade will leave
but them missing the playoffs would at least help that cause.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 21, 2010 4:28 PM CST up reply actions
yeah i think lebron and wade both stay
and we can hope for bosh. but that doesnt stop me from hoping……
Practice beats talent when talent doesn't practice.
by iamsasquatch on Feb 21, 2010 4:36 PM CST up reply actions
especially after their nonactivity at the deadline
Wade is gonna wait til they get somebody. if Lebron stays or goes to NY, if Bosh stays or goes to NY instead of Miami, if Amare doesn’t go to Miami… i know its a lot of ifs, but if an aging Boozer is the best Riley can offer after wasting 2 good seasons (as opposed to CLE who was put a good team around LBJ), i can see Wade bolting. why would he stay? who will he play with? Miami better hope they land Bosh, or else Wade is gone.
we went out for pizza after the game. -dave wannstedt
by BULLieving in Miami on Feb 21, 2010 6:31 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Yeah exactly. Wade needs to win.
If he doesn’t see Miami winning far more next year than they did this year, he won’t think twice about leaving.
Bosh or Bust
by JockstrapNoah on Feb 21, 2010 6:33 PM CST up reply actions
It kills me though
Wade will likely stay somewhere where they can’t fill an arena. I saw empty seats during the playoffs of their championship year. Wonderful weather, but what a shitty place to play.
by ToroToroToro on Feb 21, 2010 7:57 PM CST up reply actions
I told you guys Taj was good, not bad for a late rounder
LA Sports is what keep me off the streets and out of trouble, thanks to all the teams Rams, Dodgers, Lakers, USC sports and the Love of Tennis.
by so.cal.native1952 on Feb 21, 2010 4:24 PM CST reply actions
someone didn't read.
but sure, I’ll mark you as ‘correct’ on the big prediction board.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 21, 2010 4:28 PM CST up reply actions
I read and I am not bragging, I was surprised that Taj scored 20 and 13rebs
LA Sports is what keep me off the streets and out of trouble, thanks to all the teams Rams, Dodgers, Lakers, USC sports and the Love of Tennis.
by so.cal.native1952 on Feb 21, 2010 4:31 PM CST up reply actions
You didn't tell me anything...
In fact, I’ve never met you in my entire life.
Consider that.
How can we have the worst offense in the league when everything about our team owner and coach is offensive?
by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 21, 2010 7:49 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
what
LA Sports is what keep me off the streets and out of trouble, thanks to all the teams Rams, Dodgers, Lakers, USC sports and the Love of Tennis.
by so.cal.native1952 on Feb 22, 2010 3:47 AM CST up reply actions
The Rams don't play in LA
Come on, man!
"What are you doing Dragic?!"
They were the LA RAMS before St. Louis how old are you
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Louis_Rams
LA Sports is what keep me off the streets and out of trouble, thanks to all the teams Rams, Dodgers, Lakers, USC sports and the Love of Tennis.
by so.cal.native1952 on Feb 22, 2010 2:07 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Jim "Chris" Everett,
Eric Dickerson, Henry Ellard.
by QUINTEN DALEY on Feb 22, 2010 3:43 PM CST up reply actions
And they are no longer part of the LA sports scene
You don’t see my love for the Chicago Cardinals in my sig?
"Michael Redd's owed 18.3 million next year. He can either opt out like an idiot or opt in like a douche bag." - NittanyCub
wow
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
So what is wrong with you my jerk if I what to have that I will.
LA Sports is what keep me off the streets and out of trouble, thanks to all the teams Rams, Dodgers, Lakers, USC sports and the Love of Tennis.
by so.cal.native1952 on Feb 22, 2010 10:42 PM CST up reply actions
What do you mean what?
You just told the blogosphere that we slept on Taj.
I’m merely reminding you that didn’t happen.
How can we have the worst offense in the league when everything about our team owner and coach is offensive?
by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 22, 2010 4:36 PM CST up reply actions
Actually as I remember at the beginning of the year that most of the blog wanted TT over Taj and couldn't understand why Taj was starting.
That is what I read, but hey maybe I am wrong I probably should of checked more often. But I don’t really post much on the laker blog and I am a longggggggggggg time fan 1965.
So have a nice day and keep it COOL>
LA Sports is what keep me off the streets and out of trouble, thanks to all the teams Rams, Dodgers, Lakers, USC sports and the Love of Tennis.
by so.cal.native1952 on Feb 22, 2010 5:38 PM CST up reply actions
The one aspect that really stuck out the most to me was Deng
His jumper was nowhere to be seen tonight, so what does he do? Get to the line. I’ve been waiting a while now to see that type of game come out of Deng, and it was awesome. If he can start banging the box more often when he doesn’t feel comfortable in his mid-range J, he can be a dangerous person for the Bulls next year.
if he can keep doing that
he’d really finally be the good third option behind rose and max free agent that we all expect him to be, and that’d be a terrific asset for the bulls. most teams have to go look for a 3rd option, and it most of the time doesnt come cheap.
Why aren't they selling Rose's all star jersey?
almost 8 FTAs per game in Feb. awesome job by deng.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
So have I
it was nice to see that he didn’t settle for long jumpers and decided to go to the basket.
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
We have eyes and can read
you even posted a photo of Taj’s block to Blair after the win in San Antonio,quoting Taj ‘’Take that, guy Bulls should have drafted instead of me!’
http://www.blogabull.com/2010/1/26/1270166/bulls-98-spurs-93-believing-that
I doubt there are five coaches that would draft Blair higher than Gibson.
by chicagobulls4ever on Feb 21, 2010 5:08 PM CST reply actions
I wouldn't go that far
but i will say Taj has made me not care about missing out on Blair. Blair may have slightly better box score stats, but I appreciate Taj’s overall contribution.
Vinny: "[Thrust] means pace, it means getting the ball out, it means getting your back to the sidelines, it means extending your outlets, it means getting the ball up the court into our early offense with plenty of time."
No, but there are 30 coaches who would draft Blair over James Johnson. Because James Johnson sucks.
Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 21, 2010 5:21 PM CST up reply actions
Don't hate on Jimmy Johns
He could be our thug enforcer off the bench. You saw him do his best red-ass Brad Miller impersonation last night and get T’d up, right? [/tongue in cheek]
that was an exceptional scowl
Doesn’t seem very moral to me. Might as well take Satan’s autograph while you’re at it. - N.C.
by Illini0509 on Feb 21, 2010 5:50 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd
Also, while a good dunk excites the crowd, nothing excites like a fight. If JJ is willing to start a fight with the other teams most hated player each game, he’ll be worth something.
Vinny: "[Thrust] means pace, it means getting the ball out, it means getting your back to the sidelines, it means extending your outlets, it means getting the ball up the court into our early offense with plenty of time."
Yes indeed JJ sucks, but
remember that Thabeet,DeRozan,Henderson,Williams,Hansbrough,Hill,Clark,Daye were lottery picks(except Daye) and higher picks than Johnson and contribute not much more than him.
Quite a draft class,ha?Probably half the first round won’t be part of the league in 3 years.
by chicagobulls4ever on Feb 21, 2010 5:34 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
The point guards have suprised
like Evans, Curry, Jennings, and Lawson. But everybody else has been a major dissapointment. There are so many young point guards in this league starting with the Chris Paul draft.
by LoveForTheGame on Feb 21, 2010 5:47 PM CST up reply actions
I think a guy like Hansbrough would have been fine off the bench. At least with a guy like him, you know his skill-set
GMs are paid to make the right draft choices. I don’t care if a guy like Thabeet sucks, it shouldn’t have any bearing on how the Bulls select.
They got a great value at 26, but 10 spots above when there were guys like Ty Lawson available, they screwed up. It’s one thing to botch a Tyrus Thomas draft pick because they were looking for a star, but this draft was for depth.
Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 21, 2010 5:53 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not ready to give up on Johnson.
He was supposed to be a “project” anyways, and at least he’s getting 2 qtr minutes pretty consistently, which shows he’s not yet worth writing off.
That doesn’t mean they didn’t miss on Blair and Lawson, because they did
Bosh or Bust
by JockstrapNoah on Feb 21, 2010 5:57 PM CST up reply actions
I am
I’m not ready to give up on Johnson.
I don’t know it’s early but he’s like 22 already, he doesn’t have a real position and he’s not particularly good at any certain skill. As raw as Tyrus was, at least he had elite athleticism and shot blocking ability from day one. He’s going to need to work really hard on getting in great shape and improving his jumper and decision making this summer if he wants to crack the rotation.
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
Little Early
I don’t get what your expectations were on him. He was labeled as raw and a project by just about everyone scouting the draft. If he had stayed another year in college, he would likely have been a top 10 pick this year. It wasn’t like he was a top 5 pick either. That part of the draft is often a crapshoot and the draft was widely considered to not be very good.
He has the physical build to be good in the league. I don’t think anyone expected him to be a 20-10 guy. I would like to see him develop into a guy who can play some tough defense for 15 minutes a night off the bench. I can understand getting upset about missing on a top 5 pick, but in a weak draft, missing on someone that late is hardly a major thing. Especially when they made up for it with a later pick in that round.
I don't disagree, I said "I don't know it's early"
I’m not upset that they missed on him at all. But I expected that he would be able to come in and play in the rotation. So far he’s looked totally lost a lot of the time and out of control. I think if developed a reliable jumpshot, he could be like a Rodney Rogers type player with some inside-out game. I just don’t see any particular thing that he does well right now. Thabo was raw but he was a good defender. Tyrus was raw but he was a good shotblocker and ridiculous athlete. I supported the pick at the time so I’m not mad at all. I just don’t see any flashes of anything that will keep him in the league beyond this rookie deal.
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
Already 22 (actually he just turned 23)?
Since when is that old? Just because Derrick Rose is playing like an all-star at the age of 21, that doesn’t mean most players of that age should be expected to have developed by then. Once upon a time, it was very rare that players left for the NBA before there senior year, and even then, most players would struggle to make an impact as a rookie.
by Poloplaya14 on Feb 21, 2010 10:34 PM CST up reply actions
The point was
that he looks terribly raw and lost. I mentioned his age because that’s about the age people are when they come out after 4 years of school and usually they are able to at least be a part of the rotation. I’m not saying he should be great, but he hasn’t shown any definitive skill that I’ve seen. If you see something different then great but I don’t.
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
The difference is Johnson played two years at a college
where he got mediocre coaching. That’s different than a 22 year old coming into the NBA after four years at Duke or Kansas or North Carolina.
That's a good point
but he’s not exactly getting anything more than mediocre coaching now. The Bulls haven’t shown a lot of patience with projects in the past, so he needs to really be self motivated and work on his game this summer. With his body, he could be a nice post up threat if he could develop that, but we’ll see what he does.
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
An NBA team can still afford to devote assistant coaches to player development.
A college coach is allowed three assistants and a basketball operations guy to do the work and have limited time on the court with players and not a lot of incentive to spend a ton of time teaching a guy who’s going to leave early to play basketball.
A mediocre NBA coaching staff is a lot different from a mediocre college staff. That said James is and was a project and may never develop.
I'm worried that JJ is going to be Tyrus Mach 2.
Eventually we will get to Mach 5, and then whoever we draft will dominate the league. But not yet.
They seem very similar, just JJ had to be in College for two years before being drafted.
Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!
I just wish
We put him in the D-League a bit just to get him playing.
JJ looks like he needs to lose a little weight anyway and him not playing isn’t really developing the potential maybe’s that he could have been.
And he’s been more a disaster on the court in garbage time (though looking a wee bit better in garbage time of late, I still cringe when he plays in the 2nd qtr etc whent he gets any time…
Sadly....through thick and thin....
they need him on the roster now
even if it’s just a handful of minutes at the SF, they would still rather use Johnson than Joe Alexander.
I’d say they could send Alexander back to the D-League but I think the Bulls have made clear they value their own developmental staff over the D-League, and it’s not like they’ll be retained anyway.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 22, 2010 9:15 AM CST up reply actions
JJ played decently tonight, unlike much of the team.
We miss you, Tyrus Thomas and Ben Gordon!
by Granny Waiters on Feb 22, 2010 8:56 PM CST up reply actions
I wonder though if
Psycho T can get healthy….cuz when he’s played decent minutes in between the injuries he’s been a bit of a surprise….
But yeah, it’s been an iffy class save for the 4-5 big guys.
Sadly....through thick and thin....
Of course Holiday,Lawson,Maynor and Collison were better than Johnson,but
how much playing time would they have got so far?I suppose not more than 10-12 minutes,which is as much time as pargo gets(and usually doesn’t deserve).Probably none of them is gonna be a star and no one could evolve into one playing behind Rose(and Hinrich).
by chicagobulls4ever on Feb 21, 2010 6:15 PM CST reply actions
If we drafted one of those guards
then we could have the priveledge to trade Hinrich. By the way, Collison has been putting up crazy numbers ever since Paul got hurt
by LoveForTheGame on Feb 21, 2010 6:32 PM CST up reply actions
I don't want to get too excited, but ..............
I must say the Bulls ball movement and overall fundamental basketball last night was terrific. We had 26 assists last night. Taj is a major surprise. Except for Evans and Jennings he is ROY. I’m not ready to lose my short-term pain scenario, but Warrick and Murray looked awfully good. Yesterday was quite a lot of fun. It could be favorable matchups that helped. Philly also stinks but they did beat San Antonio Friday night. Warrick and Murray were pumped as this was teir first game at the UC. After this weeks games, particularly against Portland, we should have a better idea if this is a mirage or real.
One thing that is real is Rose. I thought he dissected the Philly defense and made everyone look better. If we continue to play this well we are very attractive to free agents. Thursday July 1st is going to be quite a scene.
Oooh I remember the days when Salmons was first playing for the Chicago Bulls....
by LoveForTheGame on Feb 21, 2010 6:33 PM CST up reply actions
For me - last night was heaven
I liked Salmons. He hit some big shots for us. He also played good defense and was playing well recently. I must admit I really thought we would be worse finishing this season without him and Tyrus. Let’s see what happens the next few weeks. For me, last night was heaven.
taj is turning out to be the steal of the draft
it’s too bad we had to trade away tyrus, and that while he was here, vinny didn’t play them together much. a lot like we only had a year-long taste of gordon-rose, we only had a brief taste of taj-tyrus.
oh well.
"4 inches, baby!" --ripped off from Kush
by anorexorcist on Feb 21, 2010 6:46 PM CST up reply actions
ironically
even though it was always seen as taj or tyrus, they played well together to me.
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
"must say the Bulls ball movement and overall fundamental basketball last night was terrific."
ok, but keep in mind the opponent.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 22, 2010 12:13 AM CST up reply actions
Philly is definitely a bad team
but the ball movement and lack of turnovers was still surprisingly good. Not necessarily a trend, but nice to see at any rate.
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
yup, 3 TOs all game
that’s good even in an empty gym
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 22, 2010 12:40 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I am suprised that is not a record
UnBULLievable
by LoveForTheGame on Feb 22, 2010 12:48 AM CST up reply actions
The record
I believe it was John Stockton and the Jazz. I remember watching them and them having something like only 1 turnover all game.
ShipTileDirect.com - Why pay expensive retail prices? When you can ShipTileDirect at a fraction of the cost.
Why does everyone keep pumping up Jennings?
Sure, he had a 55 point game but for the season he is only averaging 16.7 points on 16 shots and 37.3% shooting. Ya that’s right 37.3, not exactly an efficient scorer.
I guess because he's young
And on the Bucks.
Though you are 150% right.
I think he’ll have a decent future, but he hit that rookie wall basically 1 week after his 55 pt game in what early Dec and hasn’t recovered. RIght now he looks far outside the ROY race with Evans-Curry leading the charge….
Jennings ahs a decent range on his shot so he SHOULD learn a way around this slump, but the fact that he’s been dropping coupled with the fact that he’s too scrawny to really ever be a solid defender, are alarms.
Sadly....through thick and thin....
We look like a real NBA team now
…with a good mix of veteran and a few young guys. With TT on this team, we always seemed to be a team that was promising and could never quite put it together.
by bullsfaninbigapple on Feb 21, 2010 7:15 PM CST reply actions
"a few young guys"?
this is a very very young team.
2010 WhiteSox Baseball: "even if it works it's still stupid"
not especially
Rose is 21. James Johnson just turned 23, but is on the back end of the rotation. Noah turns 25 this week. Taj is 42.
The rest of the guys are > 27, which is vet prime by current NBA standards.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 22, 2010 9:22 AM CST up reply actions
Lu-yawn
Is 24 going on 25.
And I still think prime is routinely considered 28-30 in the NBA (it’s just that we haven’t really had a decent 28 year old since MJ).
Sadly....through thick and thin....
wow, I did completely forget Deng
still, it’s not an especially young rotation, not like the dozen ‘rebuilding’ efforts out there.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 22, 2010 11:11 AM CST up reply actions
huh? here are the starting rotation season ages
PG 21
SG 29
SF 24
PF 24
average age of 24.5 roughly, that’s pretty young. I don’t think you’ll find 12 teams with younger starting lineups.
the 3 main guys off the bench are 27, 33, and 30 but it’s not like they are part of any sort of core going forward.
pretty young
is not ozncoop’s ‘very’ young. Not that I want them to be very young anyway, that usually means no good.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 22, 2010 12:24 PM CST up reply actions
right. they are young, but certainly not as young as say OKC
now that’s a scary roster. led by two 21 year olds in westbrook and durant and a bunch of other guys under 24.
nenad crstic is listed as 25 but that guy looks 35 to me, I swear to go he must have a fake birth certificate, he has the hair of JVG.
Taj would look the same if he grew it out
Jordan took away an entire generation of balding afros, and for what?!?!
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 22, 2010 12:50 PM CST up reply actions
Well
He’s my favorite player ever….so you picked the right commentator.
Sadly....through thick and thin....
After watching warrick
does anyone else get curious about what amare on this team would look like…arent they the same type of player, except amare is…WAY WAY better? They both arent great at defense, extremely athletic, good at scoring in the post via dunks, mid range shooting…just amare is much stronger, much faster, much more consistant, much more efficient…..
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
yes. and i was sort of against the amare thing.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
me too
i still think bosh>amare, however…i think how good a player is also is dependant on the team he is on….perhaps…but more importantly i guess to me its like, well if we dont get bosh, then amare isnt just a consolation prize…he could actually work!!
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Feb 21, 2010 10:46 PM CST up reply actions
Problem with Amare
Is he mails it in so much. I was so pro Amare last year when all the Bosh talk started, but man Amare has the talent to be ridiculously awesome in every single game but he doesn’t bring that intensity. THough I guess in the playoffs he’d bring it.
But then againt he injuries and the money is concerning as is the report that Phx tried to ask Houston to waive the physical to complete the Amare to Houston trade at the end of the deadline…..that’s a huge red flag.
Sadly....through thick and thin....
Rose and Vinny would keep him in check
jk.
Maybe he would play with a chip? And as players get older they mature on the court and start to do all the little things necessary. I don’t care if he’s not a defensive stud either. Theres’ maybe 3-4 PF that would beat him on that end anyway. But yeah, sometimes his help D leaves something to be desired, but he hasn’t been coached to play D, you know, Antoni.
"What are you doing Dragic?!"
Amare
So far doesn’t seem a guy to play with a chip/alter his game. He seems like a more spoiled Shawn Marion with gobs more pure talent than Marion, but one who still benefits more by playing with the fantastic PG that is Steve Nash than he does by his own ability.
Amare has freakish ability, should be the league’s best PF bar none, but really I don’t see him ever living up to his max status….unless he walks into a team with a Lebron and Wade and he can be a big name, but definitive #3….
He has max talent, but Sheed esque effort—except Sheed was more effective in his prime and didn’t have the injury issues/risks.
Sadly....through thick and thin....
But he is the Leagues best PF? He has numerous All-stars, lets not forget that
He was putting up Historic numbers in the playoffs, against Utah and San Antonio.
And man if you think Sheed was a better player than Amare, wow. That does not Compute.
"What are you doing Dragic?!"
It's not compute
But it is the truth. Sheed in Portland and Sheed definitely in Detroit when motivated was fantastic.
Sheed didn’t score like Amar’e and well flat our couldn’t, but defensively he is leap years ahead.
Amare hasn’t had his historic playoff self now post the second knee injury and now mostly mails it in using his fantastic athleticism as his only weapon.
Amare’ is a freak talent, but hasn’t tried hard to use or improve on all his talents. He should be ahead of Dirk, etc in the league, but hell I don’t even know if I’d say he’s better than Lee right now….and Lee’s really just a workhorse.
Sadly....through thick and thin....
Sheed could score, he was just
flat out lazy, shyed away from being the man, never wanted ball in big situations, Sheed had the talent to be a 25ppg scorer.
by QUINTEN DALEY on Feb 22, 2010 3:46 PM CST up reply actions
I know he did
Just saying what he did.
Amare has the talent to be a 30 pt a game scorer but takes nights off. If he gave the effort defensively to aid in stops, he could run and gun more off the court and could be damn near unstoppable in the post….
Yet all those seem to be in the past….as injureis and age have slowed him just enough that he has to work harder and he doesn’t seem to want to work harder.
Sadly....through thick and thin....
I agree that amare doesn't always bring it, another thing if a player gets into his head he kind of disappears.
LA Sports is what keep me off the streets and out of trouble, thanks to all the teams Rams, Dodgers, Lakers, USC sports and the Love of Tennis.
by so.cal.native1952 on Feb 22, 2010 5:42 PM CST up reply actions
I think he would be awesome for this team
and fit perfectly with the way we play. I just really don’t think they would sign him because he’s one of those guys with some so called attitude issues or at least that seems to be the perception. He’d be worth going after to me if we can’t get Bosh, Wade, or Lebron. I’d rather pay him the max than Joe Johnson honestly.
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
Amare is horrible on defense
Would be interesting to see offensively but Amare is far worse on the defensive end. Warrick seems to have a high basketball IQ while Amare has one of the lowest ones I’ve seen in the NBA.
i don't have anything to support this
so i’m hesitant to post, but blast me if i’m totally wrong, but isn’t there a possibility that he may have the talent to play solid defense and that it maybe hasn’t been stressed considering the system phoenix runs?
Doesn’t seem very moral to me. Might as well take Satan’s autograph while you’re at it. - N.C.
I wonder the same thing about David Lee
Bosh or Bust
by JockstrapNoah on Feb 21, 2010 10:38 PM CST up reply actions
Phoenix under D'Antoni got a rep as a bad defensive team
In reality, there were actually an average defensive unit. There were players that managed to play good defense on the Suns.
by Poloplaya14 on Feb 21, 2010 10:44 PM CST up reply actions
yea but i know many fans
and even if u go on the suns blog and ask them, they probably would reply that amare is bad on defense, probably at best average..but thats when he tries, and i hear he doesnt try on defense usually, consider it a bad habit he picked up from his d’antoni days…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Feb 21, 2010 10:47 PM CST up reply actions
that doesn't surprise me
and again this is coming out of no where (i’ll probably know more soon as i’m about to crack open SSOL), but some players could be inherently more instinctive on the defensive end, raja bell for example, amar’e may have some potential if defense is stressed in the system, which it seemingly is to a degree here. this could all be total bs, just a thought.
Doesn’t seem very moral to me. Might as well take Satan’s autograph while you’re at it. - N.C.
True. It's a system that ideally can produce an average to good defense, but not
a really strong defense.
Of course, but I don't think I can buy that Amare is somehow being held back in Phoenix.
I thought it was unfair the way he was singularly blamed for their playoff collapses when Nash was just as culpable, but even pre-microfracture he was never truly able to make life difficult defensively.
I think if you paired Amare with Noah, and had Taj off the bench he would look a lot better, but he’s still yet to become a big man who will box out or make rotations.
Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 21, 2010 11:08 PM CST up reply actions
so i guess the question is
should that take him off the bulls FA list?
Doesn’t seem very moral to me. Might as well take Satan’s autograph while you’re at it. - N.C.
Our power forwards are Taj Gibson and Hakim Warrick.
If he didn’t feel entitled to a max deal, I’d definitely want him here. But, just like Joe Johnson, there’s something off about committing your cap space to a superstar with such obvious flaws.
Not saying Bosh doesn’t have his negative traits, but he’s consistently improved with a worse support system.
Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 22, 2010 12:33 AM CST up reply actions
I agree. That's why I am very leery about commiting to Amare.
Things you get away with in the regular season are a different deal in the playoffs.
I disagree
Stoudemire is a better defender than Warrick. He’s simply bigger, stronger, and more athletic.
by Poloplaya14 on Feb 21, 2010 10:49 PM CST up reply actions
warrick isnt known for his defense
i think both players are known to be poor defenders, maybe if u ask a casual fan, they would say amare is the better defender….i dont have any stats (like always) but if someone looked them up, im sure it would show that warrick and amare are pretty similar on the defensive end…but amare is just way way better on offense..
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Feb 21, 2010 10:49 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not a big believer in defensive statistics, but most seem to favor Stoudemire
His career BLK% is over twice as high as Warrick’s, his STL% is higher and he’s got a better DRtg. I do not really believe in the value of DRtg as a stat, but for anyone who does, there you go. I also find it interesting that his DRtg has gotten worse since D’Antoni left.
The main problem with Warrick defensively is that he’s not big enough or strong enough to play with the big boys down low. That’s not really a problem for Amare.
by Poloplaya14 on Feb 21, 2010 10:57 PM CST up reply actions
The problem with Stoudemire's defense
was never blocks and steals. It’s caring enough to fight for position, make the correct rotations, and challenge shots.
I agree
But all I’m saying is that stoudemire is better than warrick, because despite his lack of effort, his natural talent allows him to make at least some contribution
by Poloplaya14 on Feb 22, 2010 10:55 AM CST up reply actions
BBIQ: ball in basket = good?
Amare must be a friggin’ genius.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 22, 2010 12:07 AM CST up reply actions
i'm on record as being a big amar'e to the bulls guy
that is if we miss out on the big 3. even though he’s probably a below average rebounder/defender, i’d imagine having noah would allow us to take on a player with his skillset (extremely efficient on offense/weak defense/rebounding). deng and noah are both top 5 at their position in rebounding and noah at least passes the eye test on defense (not sure if the stats back that up). am i missing something in thinking that amar’e is a really good fit? if the concern is over his injury history, i think that’s fair, as i’m not entirely well read on that topic. seems like i’m reading so much ’amar’e is overrated’ that he’s becoming underrated…
Doesn’t seem very moral to me. Might as well take Satan’s autograph while you’re at it. - N.C.
So am I
“analysts” rave about him. Esp. the former players. Take that how you want. And he really hasn’t had much help, as you said he’ll play with Noah, Taj and Deng.
I am not averse to landing him, Boozer, or Joe Johnson, if we do not get Wade or Bosh, even at Max. ALthough well documented that Joe (or Boozer or Amare for that matter) will be not be worth near the Max at the end of the contract, Kirk and Deng will have expired by then, and we can reload again, when Rose is 25, after making a run with Joe, Kirk, Noah, Deng and Rose.
"What are you doing Dragic?!"
So many new toys my freakin head is spinning!
I still don’t like the lineup. I think Miller should eventually put on a suit like Hunter and let the young guys play.
I want to see more James Johnson, and Acie Law at the SG position definitely. I hope when can put Kurt back to his natural position of backup PG. And I also want to see what we can do with Joe Alexander, he was a pretty good shooter at WVU, my only concern is his athleticism. But if he follow Den that shouldn’t be a problem. We are at our best when we have the most athletic guys on the floor though.
Right now my dream lineup is Rose, Law, Johnson, Warrick, & Noah. Fast and Furious!
Mine is..
Pargo, Law, Brown, Johnson, Warrick.
Beasley spent the first two quarters like he was wandering through a forest.-Neil Funk
You couldn't be more wrong about Alexander
He’s very athletic. The problem is everything else.
by Poloplaya14 on Feb 21, 2010 10:50 PM CST up reply actions
we're not in the developing business this season
make the playoffs.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 22, 2010 12:09 AM CST up reply actions
Profit over playoffs
Well I guess playoffs equals more profit
by LoveForTheGame on Feb 22, 2010 12:37 AM CST up reply actions
Who are these new posters?
They make me sound reasonable.
12/31/08: Fire Vinny Del Negro.(upd: 1/7/10)
by NBA Observer on Feb 22, 2010 9:14 AM CST up reply actions 8 recs
Why did SB nation team up with yahoo?
now we have all these hooligans.
by LoveForTheGame on Feb 22, 2010 1:30 PM CST up reply actions
DaBulls looked real good last night
I’ll be the first to admit that they have been playing some subpar teams but these are the types of games in the past where we let a lesser talented team come in and surprise us. Glad to see that didn’t happen against the sixers.
Side note: Have you ever witnessed so many blown dunks by the Bulls? Noah, Gibson, and Rose if my memory serves me right. Noah’s dunk was awful.
by South Jersey Wedding Photographer on Feb 21, 2010 8:04 PM CST reply actions
VDN Bashing
Don’t get the VDN bashing. So by your account, he’s a horrible coach, but being horrible the way he is is a good thing for this team? Seems like the VDN horrible coach meme has reached a new height.
I’m not saying VDN is Phil Jackson, but he deserves to be judged on the results this team has put forth. With the loss of Ben Gordon and not a ton of talent around Rose, they’re 28-25 at this point. Did you really expect them to be better than that considering Rose was hurt the first month, Tyrus was out, Noah missing games, and Salmons production fell off a cliff this season?
I guess I didn’t have high expectations this year and I’m happy with where they are currently at. The goal this season was to remain respectable and develop Derrick Rose. They have done both. In fact, Noah has turned into one of the better Centers in the league and a great rebounder. Taj is becoming a respectable PF who can give you 20-25 minutes a night.
I’m not saying he should be back and/or that I find him to be a good coach. But what were your expectations going into this season? 50-win team?
its not that bizarre. if a coach doesnt have a clue, but tries to micro-manage anyways then he will
be a disaster. if a coach doesnt have a clue but mostly doesnt interfere with what the players are doing, then he can work. vinny is the latter.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
you're correct that I'm not judging the results
I’m judging the process. Vinny’s a cliche in a moderately priced suit. I want more out of a coach when we get that talent upgrade.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 22, 2010 12:10 AM CST up reply actions
If :(
when we get that talent upgrade.
We miss you, Tyrus Thomas and Ben Gordon!
by Granny Waiters on Feb 22, 2010 5:51 PM CST up reply actions
It took Tyrus all of 48 minutes
to find a way to make Larry Brown look like a genius and Vinny Del Negro look like a novice.
A coach is a teacher. Is there any results to show from Vinny’s “teaching”?
12/31/08: Fire Vinny Del Negro.(upd: 1/7/10)
by NBA Observer on Feb 22, 2010 9:17 AM CST up reply actions
NBA Observer, I always look forward to your posts because of your Bball smarts but I hate when you exxagerate just to make your points
TT has already played over 50 minutes not 48 since he was taken under L B’s wing, so the transition wasn’t as quick as you said.
I find it interesting that Tyrus led the team in rebounding his 1st 2 games off the bench and as everyone is probably aware, recorded 10 blocks. It’s amazing how a simple adjustment like having a leaper and shot blocker being allowed to play closer to the paint can help his stats in those 2 areas. I wonder why that thought never occurred to VDN?
Otherwise I agree with the rest of your statement regarding Vinny. You remember the old saying…“those that can’t do, teach.” In Vinny’s case he can neither do nor teach. So as long as he stays out of the way, the Bulls always have a chance.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Feb 22, 2010 2:47 PM CST up reply actions
I like Tyrus, and didn't want to see him get traded
but I’m going to wait for 10 games to see if it’s really a change in Tyrus’ production or just the “bounce” he gets every once in a while (like when he came back from the forearm injury).
Please...
“… It was right to mock the praise (and elevation to the starting unit) when he started out his NBA career quite terribly.”
This kind nonsense really smacks of extreme bias. If you want to argue that some, myself included, are too high on Taj, feel free to do so. But it is ludicrous to claim that those of us who discerned TG’s potential early on deserved mocking – even though we turned out to be correct. How absurd!
by badnewsintennisshoes on Feb 21, 2010 10:00 PM CST reply actions
I don't remember you
so I don’t want to group people in some pro-Taj camp. But I don’t remember the talk being Taj having potential, it was that Taj was already good because Neil Funk said he was smart. He wasn’t good.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 22, 2010 12:12 AM CST up reply actions
I will say that I generally accepted that Taj did not have potential
since he’s 31 years old.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 22, 2010 12:42 AM CST up reply actions
For god's sake Taj is 24 1/2 and can improve a whole lot.
Why hasn’t he any potential?I guess that you should believe that Tyrus has no potential too,cause he’s a little younger than Taj and his improvement through 4 years is sadly very small.Knowing the fundamentals is a very underrated ability in the nba.That,character and the work ethic are the big differences between taj and tyrus.
by chicagobulls4ever on Feb 22, 2010 4:38 AM CST up reply actions
Of course...
the anti-Taj crowd, including the host of this blog, are being ridiculous in many of their criticisms.
The notion that his numbers to date – a whole half-season in the NBA! – tell the story of how good he is, is laughable on its face. As you point out, he obviously has further room for improvement.
Furthermore, by the admission of our “friendly BullsBlogger”, he has already improved significantly since early this season.. Think about it: by his logic, Taj has gone from being “terrible” to being to being a “capable” PF, yet at the same time he isn’t likely to improve any further! Ridiculous.
by badnewsintennisshoes on Feb 22, 2010 8:30 AM CST up reply actions
The conversation always had two contingent premises.
(1) That the Taj hype apparatus was attempting to cover for the Org’s overarching faults and (2) that Taj’s hype had a direct relationship to pushing Tyrus off the team. It is disappointing that Taj’s success was related in such a linear way to the more negative features of this Bulls team. But really, do you proclaim your losses as loudly as your victories?
I saw T2 at Walgreens in Deerfield he’s tall. if you’re wondering what his grocery list included: magnums, french vanilla ice cream and a 20 oz sprite
by Super-Structure on Feb 22, 2010 9:15 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
well said
it’s always been a Tyrus fixation with me, not Taj. I have no doubt VDN was looking for any possible reason to be done with Tyrus going into this season, and in Taj he found his excuse, even if at the start of the year it was ludicrous. It’s less ludicrous now, because after that injury it became obvious Tyrus was in a wasted season and done here, and Taj won’t be, but it’s just symbolic of the Org.‘s value system. Though we’re fortunate that Taj has started to play up to his hype.
Now it’s my sacred duty to prevent the Org. from telling us they don’t need Chris Bosh now :)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 22, 2010 9:29 AM CST up reply actions
We've been discussing...
Taj’s merits as a player. If you want to discuss how he was used by VDN/management vis-a-vis Tyrus, that’s fine, but it’s not directly relevant to this discussion.
Secondly, I wasn’t proclaiming proudly that I saw Taj’s potential before others (frankly I don’t see how anyone missed it). My point was that it is ridiculous to argue that mocking prescient (as it turns out) observers was somehow smart or correct.
by badnewsintennisshoes on Feb 22, 2010 9:58 AM CST up reply actions
You were commenting on his reference to treatment of the 'pro-Taj'
hype early on; I was explaining what the anti-hype was in reference to and particularly yfBB’s statement.
As for not proclaiming your rightness? You chose to dichotomize this conversation into the “pro-Taj” and “anti-Taj,” which, by virtue of its pejorative use, whitewashes all specific difference in the conversation. That, in my view, is as much a proclamation, considering your traumatized timbre, as saying it outright.
Considering that most of the comments supporting Taj early on came with some negative caveat, mostly targeting Tyrus, it is clear what this conversation—one that has a chain of significance far outstretching this thread—is about.
I saw T2 at Walgreens in Deerfield he’s tall. if you’re wondering what his grocery list included: magnums, french vanilla ice cream and a 20 oz sprite
by Super-Structure on Feb 22, 2010 10:39 AM CST up reply actions
again...
if you want to start a thread on that issue, that’s fine.
by badnewsintennisshoes on Feb 22, 2010 11:31 AM CST up reply actions
You really need to reread your posts.
If you didn’t want to talk about what yfBB was referring to, why did you begin all of this by quoting him? You may think that ignoring context is an effective mode of argumentation, but all it has done is make you look pretty flaccid.
I saw T2 at Walgreens in Deerfield he’s tall. if you’re wondering what his grocery list included: magnums, french vanilla ice cream and a 20 oz sprite
by Super-Structure on Feb 22, 2010 11:41 AM CST up reply actions 4 recs
youve done it, youve revealed his secret.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
I never said that I didn't...
want to talk about that aspect of it. Feel free to check my recent posts on the topic. I’ve probably posted more than almost anyone on it. I made a very specific point above, and THAT was the topic of this sub-thread.
by badnewsintennisshoes on Feb 22, 2010 12:17 PM CST up reply actions
This is all a bit ridiculous
especially from someone who rarely posted on this site before this month. It’s easy to criticize people’s opinions from Game 1 when you finally start posting in Game 50.
But as for Taj’s glaring potential, the guy was projected to be a 2nd round pick out of college. He’s not all that physically gifted, he’s not a go-to post scorer, and his numbers from college (especially his defensive rebounding) were underwhelming despite being two years older than his competition. So it was an easy guess that he’d be a safe but low efficiency player in the near future.
And it’s not like you “were correct”. You wrote one comment about Taj before February:
For whatever it’s worth…
David Aldridge and a former scout on NBA TV were both highly positive about the Taj pick.
That’s not being correct, that’s being non-committal.
But hey, if you honestly thought Taj would be a starting caliber PF by the all-star break, well done, and maybe you know something that most of us here didn’t. Post more. Tthis “I saw Taj’s potential” talk is crap without a record of it.
by YaoPau on Feb 22, 2010 10:41 AM CST up reply actions 5 recs
Ding!
I saw T2 at Walgreens in Deerfield he’s tall. if you’re wondering what his grocery list included: magnums, french vanilla ice cream and a 20 oz sprite
by Super-Structure on Feb 22, 2010 10:50 AM CST up reply actions
Spare us the red herrings...
Whether or not I posted frequently at the beginning of the season is completely irrelevant to the discussion. I couldn’t care less if people believed me to be prescient or not in the case. I didn’t post much early on – so what? It is the general proposition that those who saw quite a bit of potential (and were correct) should have been mocked that I am now mocking.
Furthermore, I never made any claims prior to the season, as I had NO opinions about Taj. It WAS clear early on that he had plenty of potential, and the idea that he was “terrible” is ridiculous.
by badnewsintennisshoes on Feb 22, 2010 11:30 AM CST up reply actions
Who is us?
I saw T2 at Walgreens in Deerfield he’s tall. if you’re wondering what his grocery list included: magnums, french vanilla ice cream and a 20 oz sprite
by Super-Structure on Feb 22, 2010 11:42 AM CST up reply actions
Myself...
and the other sentient readers
by badnewsintennisshoes on Feb 22, 2010 12:17 PM CST up reply actions
Taj's success doesn't make the logic wrong
Everything’s a guess. Nobody knew for sure how Taj would fare in the NBA, but 23 year old college seniors with mediocre athleticism who put up mediocre numbers on mediocre teams usually don’t earn starting jobs their rookie year for playoff bound teams. Especially when the Bulls had a former #4 pick who started for a playoff team last year at age 22. That’s the praise and promotion that yfBB was mocking. Just because the Bulls were somewhat vindicated in this case doesn’t mean it was good logic. They’ve made similar long shot bets before picking hustle and character over talent and it’s hurt them.
by YaoPau on Feb 22, 2010 12:25 PM CST up reply actions 8 recs
Again...
I personally believe that the Bulls did the right thing by starting Taj over TT. I can elaborate again, but have done so in the past.
The fact is that we will never really know what might have happened had TT been handled differently. If he does develop under Brown, then one could reasonably argue that the coaches in Chicago were a big part of the problem. If he doesn’t, then you will have your answer…
by badnewsintennisshoes on Feb 22, 2010 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
Furthermore...
the book is still out on whether it was a smart decision. Let’s see how the two players develop, and then a reasonable conclusion can be reached.
by badnewsintennisshoes on Feb 22, 2010 12:48 PM CST up reply actions
I'll save you the anticipation
nobody will care what you or anyone said at draft time. I don’t really have a scoreboard, sorry.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 22, 2010 12:51 PM CST up reply actions
I don't understand...
your comment at all. Who said anything about draft time?
by badnewsintennisshoes on Feb 22, 2010 12:55 PM CST up reply actions
I understand your points but if you had watch Taj play for 3 years at USC, you would know his quality.
Yes he is not a typical NBA superficial star with an uneducated and everybody owes me attitude, he is that throw back pro player which every team needs nowadays.
LA Sports is what keep me off the streets and out of trouble, thanks to all the teams Rams, Dodgers, Lakers, USC sports and the Love of Tennis.
by so.cal.native1952 on Feb 22, 2010 2:20 PM CST up reply actions
You need Lebron James or Kobe Bryant
Taj Gibson is just nice to have.
by Grinder in Training on Feb 22, 2010 2:30 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly, I no he not Kobe or LeBrat the dancing machine!
He is a serviceable 3-4-5 player, like Milick Jones and other hard working types. He is from the Bronx like Artest and Odum most of that crowd know a lot about Fundamentals.
LA Sports is what keep me off the streets and out of trouble, thanks to all the teams Rams, Dodgers, Lakers, USC sports and the Love of Tennis.
by so.cal.native1952 on Feb 22, 2010 2:38 PM CST up reply actions
I know he is not------------major goof
LA Sports is what keep me off the streets and out of trouble, thanks to all the teams Rams, Dodgers, Lakers, USC sports and the Love of Tennis.
by so.cal.native1952 on Feb 22, 2010 5:43 PM CST up reply actions
Good luck improving his hands
I do think Taj can get better defensively where he won’t foul as much once he learns all of his opponents and studies the scouting. it just takes time. Plus he’s a rookie and the calls against you come in bunches.
However, I don’t know how he improves his hands. He’s blowing passes received right in his chest. He struggles rebounding because he’s always going for boards with one hand instead of two.
Maybe he reverses the NBA trend and suddenly acquires good hands, or better and for that matter. But I doubt it.
12/31/08: Fire Vinny Del Negro.(upd: 1/7/10)
by NBA Observer on Feb 22, 2010 9:20 AM CST up reply actions
I think he could become a better post defender with some bulk
so that’s something to look forward to over the offseason. He’s not going to get better hands though. And we’ll see on the rookie calls thing, I know there’s something to that but it also seems like a convenient excuse for the defensive 3-seconds call every game.
But if we drafted the next PJ Brown at that slot it’s fine work.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 22, 2010 9:27 AM CST up reply actions
He should have worked on bulk in college.
There are plenty of guys who get stronger while in college basketball. He’s been out of high school for five years? And it’s not like the Bulls have a strong record of turning skinny guys into powerhouses (e.g. Deng, Hinrich, Thomas, etc.)
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
well maybe he did and just couldn't
I think Thomas and Noah have made significant strides in that department. And if Taj needs help putting on weight I can’t think of better veteran leaders than Jerome James and Lindsey Hunter
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 22, 2010 11:16 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Taj was never Terrible, but people that haven't watch him don't know.
Listen TT in college looked like a killer player but never really made a move to improve in the NBA. Taj just went to practice and beat the dude out, it is called Basic BB one man high is another mans low. Hey I am a long time Laker fan cut Taj and see how fast one of the great teams pick him up.
LA Sports is what keep me off the streets and out of trouble, thanks to all the teams Rams, Dodgers, Lakers, USC sports and the Love of Tennis.
by so.cal.native1952 on Feb 22, 2010 2:33 PM CST up reply actions
don't forget consistency, and chemistry set
I was being tongue-in-cheek with the age thing.
But it does stand to reason that Taj’s relatively older age as a rookie means he has a lower potential curve. Plus one could argue that it’s easier for knuckleheads like Tyrus to learn ‘character’ than it is for Taj to get a hands transplant.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 22, 2010 9:25 AM CST up reply actions
you talk about tyrus like he was a super talented accomplished soon-to-be allstar,
and you never talk about his many flaws.Tyrus can’t shoot from the midrange or the 3pt line, and doesn’t have really any post moves.He usually scores with dunks,putbacks and layups.He is the typically hustle/energy type of big man that you are mocking,whenever taj(still a rookie) has a bad game.Defensively I think is very overrated.Sure he is a very good shot blocker,but due to being overexcited he usually doesn’t recover the ball.He is a poor team defender and forgets the plays.In general I think his biggest ability is his athleticism,which sometimes helps him cover his flaws,but his basketball IQ is too low to help him become more than a good third big man.
by chicagobulls4ever on Feb 22, 2010 9:49 AM CST up reply actions
I agree with you there.
He is the typically hustle/energy type of big man
I can’t see the guy starting at PF consistently he has no post game just be a energy game changing 6th man or 3rd Big. And has a low basketball IQ.
I'm afraid...
that you and others are wildly overstating Taj’s hands as a liability. How many passes has he dropped in the past, say, 10 games? One? Two? More than the average starting forward in the league?
Tossing around cliches isn’t meaningful, and since you guys are so attached to statistics, let’s see some that back up your ‘bad hands’ assertions.
by badnewsintennisshoes on Feb 22, 2010 9:53 AM CST up reply actions
unfortunately they dont record "tajes" in the boxscore.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
by TheMoon on Feb 22, 2010 11:57 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I know you can't get a hands transplant,but
please tell me which of all the knuckleheads, that came to the NBA with great potential,did they learn ‘character’?J.R.Smith?Sean Williams?Shawne Williams?Michael Beasley?Glen Davis?
Of course Tyrus didn’t have so many character problems as these guys,but still his character remains a big issue.
by chicagobulls4ever on Feb 22, 2010 9:59 AM CST up reply actions
Beasley is doing fine, Big Baby contributed to a title team and played great in last year's playoffs.
JR Smith is a huge part of Denver’s success, along with recovering meth-head Chris Anderson.
Character remains an issue, but other teams know how to deal with erratic behavior like mature adults, instead of like they’re in 4th grade.
Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 22, 2010 12:50 PM CST up reply actions
I suppose you haven't read any of what has happened in Denver this year
there was even a meeting between the coaching stuff and the management whether they should trade him or not,while the local analysts had expressed doubts whether they would have been any takers.Also did you know what he did last summer?Jail.
Big Baby injured himself in a fight with his ‘best friend’,and the celtics were too happy about him that they were anxious to trade him.And playoff success?Who was guarding him?This blog’s favorite player,Tyrus Thomas.
Beasley,when he is not in rehab, is too inconsistent and Wade has publicly critisized him.You think Riley would draft him now above Lopez?
by chicagobulls4ever on Feb 22, 2010 1:15 PM CST up reply actions
the denver thing happened largely as a result of j.r. smith stinking up the
joint all year and then disrupting the team with his bitching. but its his performance that had him on the potential trade block. notice they didnt think of trading him at the very beginning of the year even though he had his suspension. why? because they were getting a potential 6th man of the year back. good teams work through their problems with headcases who produce.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
Who knows if they tried to trade him or not?
Denver is a great place for J.R., but it isn’t a stretch to think that he doesn’t have much value around the league.
I would imagine he has little value around the league as a result f both
performance and attitude. This article makes it seem like jr’s relationship with karl was amicable at the beginning of the season, and there were no rumors that he was being shopped that i am aware of. and you would think that there would be rumors, since this org. is so leaky it couldnt even contain the fact that they had discussions about the possibility of suspending jr at a time when they certainly were thinking of moving him and would not have wanted more bad press surrounding him.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
speaking of real good coaches...
how many of you guys watched that jazz game last night???
I'm cuckoo for Kukoc!!!
I started watching
with 5.4 seconds left.
Boo Jazz.
Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!
i stopped at around 5 mins left..
and then when i was going to check sports center i see that shot by boozer to get to overtime.. that was some comeback. so far i’ve watched this one and the sundiata gaines one of the jazz. they look real good. i really hope sloan gets COY somehow…
I'm cuckoo for Kukoc!!!
williams was great. his 2 man game with boozer destroyed the blazers in OT. for a while it felt like camby had 100 rebounds.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
What is truly amazing about this turn of events
is that somehow they are doing it without Noah. Clearly this is a repetition for the Bulls, where the success could lead right back to the dumps against a couple decent teams; however, if the plan is to make the playoffs and hopefully showcase Hinrich, they are well on their way.
I saw T2 at Walgreens in Deerfield he’s tall. if you’re wondering what his grocery list included: magnums, french vanilla ice cream and a 20 oz sprite
by Super-Structure on Feb 22, 2010 12:29 PM CST reply actions
Hinrich's 8 million expiring contract in 2 years is going to be valuable
It’s going to be fun to see what happens as that draws nearer and nearer
Especially when it becomes...
his 5 for 25 deal. Go Bulls! :P
Sorry Homer.
I saw T2 at Walgreens in Deerfield he’s tall. if you’re wondering what his grocery list included: magnums, french vanilla ice cream and a 20 oz sprite
by Super-Structure on Feb 22, 2010 12:35 PM CST up reply actions
With a win tonight
The Bulls will be 22-11 since the VDN firing report came out in December.
thats just like vinny to start trying when his job is threatened.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
Skiles teams knew how to fail miserably against bad teams as well.
Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 22, 2010 9:34 PM CST up reply actions
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