Hakim Warrick > Tyrus Thomas?
by MrSportsKnowItAll.com on Feb 20, 2010 2:10 AM CST
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PrintAccording to the crew at Bulls Post Game Live, after but one game -- Friday's 100-94 win over Minnesota -- the answer is a resounding yes, followed by several exclamation points. Take it away, Mark and Kendall:
Schanowski: Warrick got big-time minutes backing up at both forward positions. He played 30 minutes, he had 10 points, 9 rebounds. He was very active. I thought he was very effective tonight.
30 Min, 5-13 FG, 0-0 FT, 9 Reb, 1 Ast, 0 Stl, 0 Blk, 2 TO, 2 PF, 10 Pts
Active? The shots and rebounds (six offensive) would indicate yes. But very effective? Really? He only scored 10 points on 13 shots, which is horribly inefficient. He didn't get to the free-throw line, had only one assist (against two turnovers) and did not record a steal or a blocked shot. I wouldn't even call that moderately effective.
Inconsequential Tyrus Thomas can't even get
into the superior Hakim Warrick's line of sight
I'm going to mention here that I do actually like Warrick. But this wasn't one of his better games. I hope.
Gill: I liked what I saw. You know he was in control, not wild or anything like that--
I think we can all see where this is going...
Schanowski: (interrupting) Like Tyrus.
No way! Shocking.
Gill: (laughing) He ran great...
Schanowski: I said it. (laughs)
For the record, Tyrus -- that's Mr. Wild-and-Out-of-Control to you -- entered Friday's game shooting .483 from the field. Warrick was at .481. What's wild and out of control is the misconception that Tyrus Thomas was so wild and out of control.
Gill: He ran the break, rebounded effectively, did all of the things that we were hoping that Tyrus would do consistently. Now hopefully, he can continue to do this, because it's only going to be a plus for the Bulls.
Gee, Kendall, all of the things I hoped Tyrus would do included blocking a few shots and getting some steals. Do you know how many games Tyrus has had all season like Warrick's -- by that I mean with zero blocks and zero steals? Zero. ZERO!
Being a defensive game changer, that's kinda what I wanted Tyrus to do consistently. And say what you will about his occasionally disinterested play or periodic crazy shot and/or drive, but he did deliver on that end.
Schanowski: You know, I think his basketball IQ is a lot higher than Tyrus Thomas'. He knows when to cut to the basket, he seemed to really pick up what the Bulls wanted to do, almost, in his first game.
I suppose knowing when to step into a passing lane or timing your rotation to get a weakside block are not sound basketball plays. By the way, none of us ever saw Tyrus cut to the basket and throw down a vicious dunk. I wish we had.
A figment of our collective imagination
Gill: Well, he's an experienced vet.
Oh Jesus. There you have it. Even the Bulls announcers love their veterans.*
* For the record, this is Warrick's fifth season and Tyrus' fourth.
So anyway, I decided to look at every time Tyrus had played at least 30 minutes in a game this season, to compare to Warrick's production tonight:
| Tyrus | Hakim | |||||
| Date | 12/26 | 12/29 | 1/20 | 2/10 | 2/16 | 2/19 |
| Min | 32 | 31 | 36 | 36 | 30 | 30 |
| Points | 21 | 8 | 18 | 16 | 11 | 10 |
| FG | 10-17 | 2-10 | 8-11 | 7-12 | 4-6 | 5-13 |
| FT | 1-3 | 4-4 | 2-4 | 2-3 | 3-4 | 0-0 |
| Rebounds | 9 | 15 | 6 | 6 | 8 | 9 |
| Assists | 2 | 3 | 1 | 4 | 2 | 1 |
| Steals | 1 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 0 |
| Blocks | 2 | 3 | 3 | 1 | 3 | 0 |
| TO | 3 | 5 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 2 |
| Fouls | 2 | 1 | 6 | 2 | 2 | 2 |
The game on 12/29 is the only one where you could even make a case that Tyrus was less effective, as he scored 8 points on 2-10 shooting with 5 turnovers. But keep in mind that was only two fewer points than Warrick (on three fewer shots), he grabbed six more rebounds, dished out two more assists, got a steal, and blocked three shots. At worst that one's a push.
And yes, I understand there's some selection bias here -- that is, Tyrus played well so he "earned" a lot of minutes -- but keep in mind that Warrick logged 30 minutes tonight without having a very productive game.
But it's also unfair to look at Tyrus' games of 30 minutes or more, when Warrick got only 30-even. Since Tyrus played up to 36 minutes in the chart above, let's look at Tyrus' games on the other side, every time he played between 24 and 29 minutes:
| Tyrus | Hakim | ||||||||
| Date | 10/29 | 10/30 | 12/31 | 1/8 | 1/11 | 1/15 | 1/23 | 2/9 | 2/19 |
| Min | 26 | 24 | 28 | 29 | 26 | 28 | 24 | 28 | 30 |
| Points | 13 | 10 | 19 | 4 | 7 | 4 | 7 | 9 | 10 |
| FG | 5-10 | 3-7 | 4-6 | 1-4 | 3-6 | 1-1 | 3-5 | 4-5 | 5-13 |
| FT | 3-5 | 4-9 | 11-14 | 2-2 | 1-1 | 2-2 | 1-2 | 1-1 | 0-0 |
| Rebounds | 6 | 8 | 7 | 5 | 6 | 4 | 4 | 7 | 9 |
| Assists | 0 | 0 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 |
| Steals | 0 | 3 | 2 | 1 | 6 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 |
| Blocks | 3 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 6 | 1 | 0 |
| TO | 2 | 1 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 1 | 2 |
| Fouls | 2 | 3 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 3 | 4 | 2 | 2 |
There are, admittedly, some godawful lines in there, especially the four-point games on 1/8 and 1/15. But both his seven-point games were sneakily efficient: He took just five/six shots, and in one contest he had six steals, and the other six blocks. As for 10/30, while the free-throw percentage looks ugly, he did manage to get to the line all those times and scored the same amount of points as Warrick while attempting about half as many field goals. He did have one fewer rebound, but also turned the ball over one less time. Plus he had three steals.
So that's 13 games total. Warrick's numbers Friday were clearly superior to only two of them. Then there are four which I'd give to Tyrus but are at least semi-close. For the sake of argument, let's split them evenly. That still means that, when playing around the same number of minutes, Tyrus out-produced Warrick's Friday benchmarks roughly 70% of the time. Not that you would know that from listening to the Bulls' mouthpieces.
I want to be clear that I'm not using these numbers to try to prove that Tyrus is the better player, but rather to point out that the post-game Warrick-slurping/Tyrus-bashing was totally unwarranted. I understand it's only been one game, and given the woefully inadequate sample size I wouldn't draw any conclusions just yet. I believe that Tyrus is (and will prove to be) the better player. But for Schanowski and Gill to use the one game -- which wasn't even a particularly good showing -- as proof the Bulls got an upgrade is completely ludicrous.
Besides, if they're going to do something so bat-shit crazy, there was one other game they should've taken a look at: In his Bobcats debut, Tyrus shot a woeful 3-for-9. But because he got to the line four times (making three), he scored nine points. Oh, and he also added 12 rebounds and six (6!) blocks, all in 25 minutes.
Hmm...
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his averages when he plays 30+ minutes are really similar
to his regular per36 numbers, so there probably is not present the selection bias many assume there is.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
They're idiots
They know tt sucked because if tt didn’t suck he would have earned more playing time. Right?
You know, of all the thing the Bulls will miss from Tyrus, his ability to get the line will probably be the most missed by an offensively challenged team which has no one else with that skill. tt’s all around game is so much better than warrick that it’s laughable. But the Chicago media thinks Taj Gibson is better than tt anyway.
You just have to ignore juk like this.
by hitlesswonder on Feb 20, 2010 2:39 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
You can't draw that big of a conclusion from one game.
But honestly, if he plays as well as he did tonight all season, I’ll be relatively pleased.
i miss tyrus
this really sucks watchin him on another team… but we had to let him go… the org is a joke
by PTBALLER1523 on Feb 20, 2010 3:21 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Lmao
TT looks like a crazed pist off fan in a bulls jersey lololol
yeah I thought Warrick played fine
I liked how his first shot was him facing up and launching a contested jumper. I was watching without sound but I’m guessing Stacy King didn’t say it was a ‘bad shot right there’. And he certainly wasn’t pulled.
Warrick was billed as being more polished than Tyrus, and just anecdotally it seems that’s the case. For a coach (and some fans) that value consistency over effectiveness, that helps. Warrick and Murray both rely on two-point jumpers, so the fit is certainly there with Vinny-Ball.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 20, 2010 11:15 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Nice sarcasm.
We miss you, Ben Gordon!
by Granny Waiters on Feb 20, 2010 4:26 PM CST up reply actions
I was trying to be genuine
then it kind of fell apart.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 21, 2010 11:57 AM CST up reply actions
Unless your name is Kobe Bryant or Michael Jordan, contested jumpers are generally a bad thing.
We miss you, Tyrus Thomas and Ben Gordon!
by Granny Waiters on Feb 21, 2010 12:12 PM CST up reply actions
I know you didnt compare them.
But putting Kobe in the same sentence with MJ. Is like comparing NWA to Soulja Boy. I just wanted to say that for the hell of it. lol
Bust
I still can’t believe we picked TT instead of Lamarcus Aldridge.
At least we have now gone full circle and we have put this mistake behind us.
Roll on summer of 2010!
The No 1 Texas sports fan in Europe!
Great post
The perception-reality gap on Tyrus is HUGE. If I had time I’d review the cognitive science literature to better understand the source of the issue in this circumstance.
"You ain’t as hot as I is / all of these false prophets is not messiahs /
You don’t know how high the sky is / the square mileage of earth or what pi is." - Nas
by Jivas on Feb 20, 2010 10:45 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Not exactly news that the post-game guys are schills
remember Gill saying that the Nets are a playoff team when healthy and that’s why the Nets loss wasn’t so bad? Or chastising the question about VDN’s job security.
But it does illuminate how the Bulls media arm (official and otherwise) get fans to turn on players. I’m guessing it’s not that uncommon. But Gordon was a selfish chucker loner, and Tyrus was a dumb headcase insubordinate. If Joakim Noah was traded we’d hear how lazy he was. Deng fakes his injuries, etc. (and Kirk…is glue).
Then it’s a real curiosity why they can’t trade anyone for value.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 20, 2010 11:13 AM CST reply actions 3 recs
Absolutely
This is what TT bashers don’t seem to get. A lot of their issues with TT and other players aren’t really based on facts but talking points the the organization pushes. I noticed the whole “Warrick is more mature” talk last night and thought it was sickening.
It sounded like the Salmons adds size to the 2 guard position" talk that we heard this past offseason when the organization was softening the blow of letting BG go for nothing. If fans don’t notice that trend then they are blind. For their sake, we better get a big time FA or they may have a stroke
by Dils on Feb 20, 2010 11:47 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
The thing is...
Gordon was a selfish chucker loner. Yes, he made big shots, and he was a good ballplayer…probably the best Bull last decade, with exception to Elton Brand…but that doesn’t take away from the fact that he was a chucker with zero charisma/personality.
And Tyrus was a dumb headcase insubordinate. Only a headcase insubordinate would go on a profanity laced tirade against the head coach, unless that player is a bonafide superstar, and in that case he would have more of a right than a player like Tyrus. What has Tyrus proven to the Bulls in his four years that would allow him to go and curse out the head coach? That he can SOMETIMES be effective? Even when he was effective, it always was mixed in with mistakes that you know the coaches have asked him to avoid, yet he never seemed to be able to learn to avoid them. While Tyrus did show flashes of brilliance, you can’t tell me that some of the things he did were the dumbest things you’ve ever seen on a basketball court.
Also, no one would dare badmouth Joakim Noah after the improvement he has shown this season, which obviously conveys the amount of work he put in this offseason in getting into shape and getting bigger. The results are there. To say that the Bulls media arm would even consider calling him lazy if he were traded is unfair. And to say that a player fakes injuries is about the worst thing you can say about a professional athlete, so obviously I know you were exaggerating and no one would ever say that about Deng. Let’s not bash these media guys just because they’re speaking the truth about your beloved ex-Bulls. I know these players had tremendous talent (or in Tyrus’s case…“potential”), but don’t let your bias toward these players (for whatever reason) allow you to turn a blind eye to these players’ faults, which the media has a right and a duty to discuss. Let’s not act like Kendall and Schanowski are these morons who are creating fallacies for the sake of their own entertainment.
These aren’t false rumors these guys are spreading. It’s just reality, plain and simple.
Dave P
www.dabullseye.com
Da Bulls' Eye Forum Now Open
by Da Bulls' Eye on Feb 20, 2010 11:47 AM CST up reply actions
So where were you
When the organization let other players decide how long Noah’s suspension was going to be? Or when he was losing minutes to Aron Gray? And get out of here with the BG lone chucker talk. It didn’t hurt Rose win ROY last year. Where’s that selfish loner talk when Hinrich is going on one of his “dribble in circles until the shot clock goes to 2 seconds” phases? Or when Deng isn’t passing the ball on a fast break?
What YFBB is saying is that the Bulls media went out their way last night to say how much more mature and smart Warrick was than Tyus last night. But based on what? Meanwhile Tyrus is playing 25 mins in his first game for Larry Brown putting up 9pts,10rebs,6 blocks. I like Warrick and he will help but seriously that’ dumb talk is BS. He doesn’t play any defense whatsoever.
by Dils on Feb 20, 2010 11:54 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
actually I didn't hear the telecast
it’s the poster here who did the taxing work of transcribing a CSN production :)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 20, 2010 12:06 PM CST up reply actions
you're certainly proving they're effective.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 20, 2010 12:05 PM CST up reply actions 6 recs
First of all...
I’m not defending the organization. And I’m pretty sure the media bashed the hell out of allowing the players to vote on Noah’s suspension. And when Noah was losing minutes to Aaron Gray, he was not nearly the player he is now. I’m not saying that Aaron Gray should have been playing instead of Noah, but you can’t tell me Noah was actually earning those minutes instead way back then.
And I believe what I believe based on what I see…not what the media tells me. I gain nothing from taking what the media says to heart. It just so happens that unlike a lot of posters on this blog, I strongly believe that Tyrus has had ample opportunity to prove his worth to the organization in his 4 seasons played with the Bulls. I wanted him to succeed, as did Kendall Gill most likely. What reason would they have to not want him to succeed? He was a lottery pick and a big risk that the Bulls took, and I’m sure everyone in the organization wanted the risk to pay off. The media just saw exactly what I saw: that it was never going to pay off. I’m not going to list every mistake that Tyrus consistently made each game here because they have been discussed on numerous posts ad nauseum. But when he never learned to stop making the mistakes, I, along with the media, as well as other “Tyrus bashers,” could not longer contain our frustration. I was not going to let my desire to want Tyrus to be a star to let me blindly defend him, as many here do. I just think the media was seeing the exact thing that I and countless of other Bulls fans had been seeing for four years. I don’t think there’s any other agenda or “conspiracy”.
Dave P
www.dabullseye.com
Da Bulls' Eye Forum Now Open
by Da Bulls' Eye on Feb 20, 2010 12:18 PM CST up reply actions
No they didn't
And I’m pretty sure the media bashed the hell out of allowing the players to vote on Noah’s suspension
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
Yes, they did.
Dave P
www.dabullseye.com
Da Bulls' Eye Forum Now Open
by Da Bulls' Eye on Feb 20, 2010 12:29 PM CST up reply actions
Proof? Links?
The media treated Noah like an immature brat his rookie season, then chastised him for being out of shape for a month. Typical of anyone covering the Bulls, they have no revised their stance to say Joakim is a true winner and a great guy.
Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 20, 2010 12:39 PM CST up reply actions
He was out of shape for a month
And he just is an immature brat. I love him like all other bulls fans, but if he was on another team I’d hate his guts
How exactly is he immature?
He got into a shouting match with an assistant coach, not exactly an uncommon feat, and he was punished for it by his teammates. He has an eccentric personality that probably rubs people the wrong way, but the Chicago media wrote him off as a bust from the beginning.
Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 20, 2010 1:09 PM CST up reply actions
He was immature because people SAID he was!
Who needs actual evidence of anything when slanderous claims are just as good!
You have a lot to learn about basketball, Ozzie
by NittanyCub on Feb 20, 2010 1:31 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
You're right
Winning is pretty immature. You know what is mature? Yelling random shoe company slogans at the end of the NBA Finals. I don’t think anyone took away the Celtics’ championship for that, though.
Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!
...
One sign of maturity is winning and acting like you’ve been there before. The truly great professionals don’t showboat. That said, I don’t really care if players do, so long as they perform.
by Poloplaya14 on Feb 21, 2010 12:17 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I disagree with this example Poloplaya
This was, after all, after they had just won the title. If he wants to dance and make himself look like a jackass at that point, I see nothing wrong with it. It’s not what you normally would expect, but then again, neither is Noah.
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
I disagree ENTIRELY.
The truly great people do whatever the hell they want. They WON. Winners don’t always have to be chiseled in stone, like ‘Oh, I’ve obviously been here before. Psh. I am made of steel and do not feel emotion because I am a robot.’
The number of humans who are robots is surprisingly low.
Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!
by Prevenge on Feb 22, 2010 3:08 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Of course he's not s robot and has emotion
But maturity is being able to control your emotions and not overreacting to emotional swings. This includes both the highs and the lows.
In summary, I think noahs a very good and very entertaining player, but i wouldn’t call him a model of maturity.
by Poloplaya14 on Feb 22, 2010 11:04 AM CST up reply actions
I'm not sure how this devolved into a treatise on maturity
But to criticize someone for the way they celebrated winning a championship is absurd to me.
I mean, check out the immaturity of this guy.
Or this tool. What a loser!
by MrSportsKnowItAll.com on Feb 22, 2010 11:16 AM CST up reply actions
That's what they want you to think!
The number of humans who are robots is surprisingly low.
We miss you, Tyrus Thomas and Ben Gordon!
by Granny Waiters on Feb 22, 2010 9:44 PM CST up reply actions
I always wonder this about you
You write such intelligent things but I don’t understand how you have not mastered the reply button yet. Explain please.
Just look at the guy
How is he not immature? I should say that I consider 95% of NBA players under the age of 25 to be somewhat immature, but Noah takes the cake, although he does seem less so this year.
So if I just stare at him, the immaturity will just become apparent?
You’re not really making a lot of sense. You provide one example, that was 6 months before he became a part of the Bulls’ organization. And he was dancing…after winning a championship. The humanity!
Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 20, 2010 1:38 PM CST up reply actions
Look I'm not bashing the guy
It’s natural for a 21-year-old to act immaturely. And as for concrete examples of his immaturity, it’s hard to give those, because we don’t see a lot of what goes behind closed doors. However, everything I’ve seen from the guy just gives off an aura of immaturity. Yes, this is an opinion, and you don’t have to agree with it.
That'd be relevant if Noah had been close to 21 at any point in his NBA career.
He was 22 for eight months before he played an NBA minute.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
I was referring to his age during the video we were discussing
by Poloplaya14 on Feb 21, 2010 12:18 AM CST up reply actions
ok
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Is that so?
Sam Smith was still a beat writer then and here’s his blog post on it
http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/fullcourtpress/sam_smith/
The most he said was “I can’t say I was in agreement as I don’t see how it helped the team to have one less player available, especially against an athletic team.”
KC Johnson
http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/fullcourtpress/2008/01/noah-inactive.html
He just reported that he was suspended with no reaction at all.
Not exactly bashing the hell out of them.
I don’t personally recall any such thing and if you do, then I would love to know where you get that from.
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
Well this time will prove it won't it?
Tyrus is playing for one of the biggest no nonsense coaches, not only in the league, but the history of basketball. Brown makes Scott Skiles look like a substitute teacher for gym class on a Friday.
If Tyrus grows under Larry Brown and does it getting the minutes we thought he should have got here then it’s settled. And I don’t want to hear the whole “Change of scenery” defense either. Because people have made fun of the fact that he has to play for Larry brown. If Tyrus succeeds there then it proves without a doubt that the Bulls screwed up the #4 pick in that draft.
well they already screwed up the draft
the question now is if they screwed up by trading him. probably not since they screwed up by drafting him.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 20, 2010 12:34 PM CST up reply actions
True
I guess just going forward I want to know that I have an organization that can adapt and are able to harness the talent that they draft. You’re not going to always fall into Rose or have FA cycles like this upcoming one.
You still have to nurture and grow your talent that you draft as well. I guess I find it a cop-out that the Organization can just label an untapped talent as a malcontent and give him away. It’s the easy thing to do and fans aren’t really noticing that. If management didn’t succeed at doing that then how does BG get booed in his first game back at the UC? It doesn’t happen by accident. It’s not all about Tyrus but it’s also about player development and this Organization’s lack of a real plan.
by Dils on Feb 20, 2010 12:43 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
This organization is why some people don't like overpaid Hinrich or Deng.
Along with Wallace, all symbols of an overpromise/underdeliver organization. Also, one of the reasons I wanted Hinrich ass out of here. Use that 9.5 million to get a real shooting gaurd. Kirk and Deng rode the back of BG for years to mediocrity, and now they are riding Rose’s back to mediocrity. These people actually believe that Rose’s improvement is due to Kirk “62% Bricks” Hinrich. Without Rose I doubt this team could win another 5 games the rest of the season. That’s what I think of it’s 3 highest paid players (Deng, Hinrich, Miller)
by sadafan on Feb 20, 2010 5:11 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Nothing will ever be proven.
Tyrus is a human rorscach…the Tyrus man-crushers of the world see a lovely butterfly, others see an ink splatter. If Tyrus approaches stardom under Larry Brown, we’ll never hear the end of it. Bygones will not be bygones with rabid blogabullers. On the other hand, if he fails to improve in Charlotte, they’ll say it’s because the Bulls “ruined his development”. Nobody here will be happy unless there’s an overnight second-coming of the Jordan era…
ball.
true
I mostly want him to do well to upset specific posters here. I’m petty like that.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 20, 2010 3:26 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Brown benched his arse....
after he made a bone-headed play….
Sound familiar much?
Tyrus Thomas is a mental midget, and while possessing great athletic ability and potential for talent, his basketball IQ hinders his ability to fully (and capably) use his talent and athleticism. Flash in the pan plays are what any team will ever get from Tyrus Thomas. Same with Ben Gordon…. you all fricking complained the Bulls let him go but you sorely lack the vision necessary to see two things:
If the Bulls signed him you’d complain that he locks up their cap room and now they can’t sign a big-time free agent this summer.
Detroit is far worse with Ben Gordon than they were without him. Addition by subtraction on the Bulls part. Plus the cap space….. = win/win!
It’s like rooting against a team and picking them to win at the same time… or the opposite and rooting for a team and picking them to lose.
You all just set yourselves up to have a play on either side of fence. If they win, you say: yay, I root for the Bulls and they won….. but this, in no way, means I like VDN or think the Bulls are really that good….
If they lose you just go off on your usual rants about how everything sucks…. VDN, the front office, and the Bulls will always be stuck in mediocrity….
GMAFB and GTFO the internetz!
by Homer-ism101 on Feb 20, 2010 9:32 PM CST up reply actions
Perhaps you should re-check that box score
Because unlike what a certain Bulls coach would do, Brown re-inserted Tyrus into the lineup, and he nearly led the ’Cats to a come-from-behind win. Despite Carolina losing by 5, Tyrus finished with a plus/minus of +7, the best mark on the team.
As for the rest of it, when someone approaches things as “You’re so dumb because your opinion is different from mine,” I try not to respond.
by MrSportsKnowItAll.com on Feb 20, 2010 10:01 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
As usual, I agree with your sentiments 1000%, Dils
I guess it’s true than when they say that “Great minds think alike”.
Ok now, put on your helmet, duck and get ready for the incoming.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Feb 20, 2010 1:58 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think the media is out to get Tyrus
but they have contact with the Org., and the Org. says “you know, this guy really doesn’t listen and he never knows where he’s supposed to be, etc.” and they use that as their basis for evaluation.
I won’t get into your larger point of Tyrus not being good because I’m tired.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 20, 2010 12:35 PM CST up reply actions
Da Bulls' Eye,
One might argue that your bias against these players — perhaps in part fomented in your subconscious by broadcasters saying certain things about different guys — causes you to only see their faults. As a player, and even as a person, Tyrus undoubtedly has some flaws. But he also does some things very well, and good organizations see players for what they can do, not what they can’t. That’s not how I’d describe the Bulls, or their media contingent.
by MrSportsKnowItAll.com on Feb 20, 2010 7:17 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm glad I didn't stick around for the post-game...
Good god, how can they even say this crap? He may have been inconsistent offensively, but on defense, there was no one more consistent. Noah wasn’t developed/consistent offensively or defensively (more so offensively, of course) until the middle of last season, but I don’t remember there being a bunch of outcries at his disappointments.
"Where are the FUCKING TWINKIES?"
I did see and hear these post-game comments
An they are unwarranted.
Strange to bash a guy so soon, and I’m glad the numbers in the post don’t lie.
All your base are belong to Vinny.
Coaches Value...
Knowing players are going to be where they are supposed to be at a given moment. Love it or hate it…a team would rather have a player that might produce less, but wont make any glaring mistakes that can cost a team a game as opposed to a player that might make some things happen…but at any given moment will miss an assignment or do something that can cost the game. Everyone has played with a player that puts up good stats somehow…but half the time you look he’s out of position…chucking up a bad shot or doing some stupid shit. Generally, noone like to play with a guy like that.
Now…..if your argument is it’s the coaches job to eliminate the negatives out of the person’s game while accentuating the positives…then I won’t argue that.
In the last year I've gotten rid of two Top-Five draft picks.....Sweet!
Cmon...I'm Gar...
Do you guys really think I wanted our Top-Five draft Pick to fail?
In the last year I've gotten rid of two Top-Five draft picks.....Sweet!
Gar forgot to hit reply to Gar
In the last year I've gotten rid of two Top-Five draft picks.....Sweet!
It must be very reasuring knowing now that Tyrus is gone, the Bulls will never again
be caught out of position, or make dumb plays. They will look so smooth out there and so will their opponents, no longer having to worry about getting their shots slammed back in their faces when they enter the paint, as long as Noah is still recovering.
Thanks for the detailed post, proving once again, that the media is loaded with org. shills and no matter how many facts you lay out, the doubting Thomases will not be assuaged until they can put their hands into the wound and even that wouldn’t change some of their minds.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Feb 20, 2010 1:51 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
dude
stop posting these kind of stuff.
posting these comparative calculated basketball on the court economics doesn’t negate the fact that he’s gone and will be dearly missed. so why still rub it not just in our face but also in our basketball shaped hearts? (jelly bean tears fall)
In that post, a premptive retort:
I want to be clear that I’m not using these numbers to try to prove that Tyrus is the better player, but rather to point out that the post-game Warrick-slurping/Tyrus-bashing was totally unwarranted. I understand it’s only been one game, and given the woefully inadequate sample size I wouldn’t draw any conclusions just yet. I believe that Tyrus is (and will prove to be) the better player. But for Schanowski and Gill to use the one game — which wasn’t even a particularly good showing — as proof the Bulls got an upgrade is completely ludicrous.
All your base are belong to Vinny.
they are desperate
because if they know the org strikes out in 2010, in this economy the franchise is going to go into a tailspin. no one will waste their time, and rose will probably be traded out of desperation a few years later (a la brand).
"4 inches, baby!" --ripped off from Kush
by anorexorcist on Feb 20, 2010 4:41 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
It's comprehensible that they act like this
They are paid to say good things about the Bulls players. And Tyrus is not one anymore. Besides, they are trying to make the fans believe that Tyrus was a big problem. Maybe he was wild and out of control for some times, but he also helped the Bulls in other times.
I don’t think that Warrick played a great game, but I also don’t think that he played an awful game. The one thing that I’ve noticed was that he isn’t very committed to play defense. He seemed lost sometimes and almost never contested a shot. I hope he improves on that end, because, if he doesn’t, we will always be asking for Tyrus in the next 5 or 6 months.
Jannero Pargo = Larry Hughes 2.0
I noticed that too
The defensive dropoff is very noticeable and even with the rebounds he got, he still seemed to not go for the ball like I would have hoped. Rebounding, shot blocking, and defense have been actual strengths for this team and we take a big hit with Brad and Hakim instead of Noah and Tyrus. Hopefully Kirk can continue to pick up the slack on the defensive boards and Taj can stay out of foul trouble because otherwise, that dropoff will be a real problem.
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
They both have pretty cool sounding names.
by messwiththebull on Feb 20, 2010 7:02 PM CST reply actions
Hakim Warrick is a cooler name IMHO.
Maybe the Bulls did upgrade?
Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!
Hakim Warrick is a great name.
That’s the main reason I liked him so much coming out of Syracuse.
by MrSportsKnowItAll.com on Feb 20, 2010 7:25 PM CST up reply actions
Great information, great writing.
Mr. Sports Know It All,
That’s a hefty title for yourself, but you backed it up. I don’t know where you have been all my life, but thanks for speaking the truth and with humor. I read a lot of Bulls articles and even Sam Smith doesn’t do as good a job as you. Keep it up and thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Wow.
Thanks Jeff. That’s very nice of you to say.
by MrSportsKnowItAll.com on Feb 20, 2010 7:26 PM CST reply actions
Great post and welcome to the site
I enjoyed your blog posts a lot as well on your site. Keep it coming.
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
I don't really know if you really knowitall but
one thing I do know….. from now on, when I see your posts, I will read them immediately because in my mind, even though you may be the new kid on the block
You Da Man
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Feb 21, 2010 12:40 AM CST up reply actions
I don't know if Warrick is better than Tyrus
But it seems like he knows his role and uses his skills more effectively to help the team. Though, it’s too small of a sample size to really say anything one way or the other yet.
It would be nice if Warrick knew his role and tried to play even a small amount of defense.
That would be an effective use of skills to help the team.
by C Smoove on Feb 21, 2010 2:05 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
We got a first rounder.....
it is so frustrating that the best place to chat about the bulls is dominated by a whiny drama queen moderator with a man crush on an average SG......6 recs
by BigforkBullsFan on Feb 21, 2010 7:40 AM CST reply actions
Thats right! we got a 1st round pick, Warrick cost half the price and is plays better team ball.
Tyrus bball IQ was the death of him.
by Six6Rings on Feb 21, 2010 9:39 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
keep preaching it!
the numbers and facts that people are posting must be wrong! Just keep believing in the Bull’s media, obviously they know more basketball than anyone.
Six6Rings
Was right on the money here. Keep hating on the Bulls, even though you are an apparent fan.
The Dude Abides
How was he right?
And how does it make you a better fan to put on a blindfold and get shot in the head with the Bulls claiming that all their players are good?
I was for the TT trade, mainly because we were gonna let him walk anyways. But he would be our best option at the PF now, and he was when he got traded.
Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!
Prevenge,
you and others need to realize that the Bulls and that player were not good for each other. I would rather get athleticism and a pick as six rings mentioned as well as developing Taj than play someone that is not in our future plans and did NOT help us when games this year. He did not get the time to help but the fact remains is we were and continue to win without him. Which does go to show that him being traded was the best for BOTH parties
The Dude Abides
Acie Law and Hakim Warrick: LEADING THE TEAM IN PER
You kids like stats, right?
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
by tyger1147 on Feb 21, 2010 10:12 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Sample size on Hakim Warrick on the Bulls
is too small to be statistically significant.
We miss you, Tyrus Thomas and Ben Gordon!
by Granny Waiters on Feb 21, 2010 12:13 PM CST up reply actions
I’m concerned that the loss of an intimidating shot blocking presence will hurt the Bulls.
The Bulls lead the NBA in blocks, and I believe this plays a major role in their strong defensive efficiency. Teams shoot a lot of low percentage 3’s against the Bulls. When you consider how light they are in the frontcourt, it would seem odd that more teams don’t force the ball inside for high percentage shots against them. Indeed this is exactly what happened when Tyrus was out earlier this season. Now Noah is a good shot blocker, and Taj is a good shot blocker as well, but Tyrus is one of the best shot blockers in the league.
Warrick by comparison, is one of the worst shot blocking bigs in the league. Don’t be fooled by his 2 block effort Saturday, after which he has a season total of 12. To put this into perspective, Tyrus has blocked as many shots in TWO games with the Bobcats, as Warrick did in FORTYEIGHT games with Milwaukee. If I’m coaching against the Bulls, I would attack Warrick in the paint at every opportunity, as not only does he not block shots, but completely lacks the physical strength to hold up in the post. If I can think of this, certainly opposing coaches will.
My opinion on this is that as time goes on, and more teams seek to exploit Warricks lack of defense; Warrick will become maginalized despite his being a somewhat more polished offensive player than Tyrus or Taj. More and more I think the Bulls will be reliant on Taj to play big minutes, hopefully he’ll be up to it and not get into constant foul trouble.
Now I’m not trying to say that Warrick is completely useless or anything. He is as good of a consolation prize as the Bulls could have hoped for under the circumstances. That is all he is though, a consolation prize.
by kingles on Feb 22, 2010 5:00 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I was saying this summer
i hoped we’d have Warrick and Tyrus…but yeah Warrick in 2 games looks great here, active on both ends and fits what Vinny’s running.. I know 2 games aren’t a season, but for 1/2 the price of Tyrus, I like Warrick and do think right now Warrick is better than Tyrus…..and who knows…..it would be awesome if we had the team for him—then suck ass if he bolts for more dough next season.
Sadly....through thick and thin....
Warrick is not better than Tyrus.
I really don’t understand how this is a debate. Next we’ll be getting posts comparing Joe Alexander to Tyrus.
Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!
are you talking about Tyrus?
it is so frustrating that the best place to chat about the bulls is dominated by a whiny drama queen moderator with a man crush on an average SG......6 recs
by BigforkBullsFan on Mar 2, 2010 4:56 PM CST up reply actions
When did I say Warrick is better than Tyrus?
I never did. But for what we’re running and quite a bit less the price, Warrick seems a better fit so far, and I did add that it was early.
But I was very pro Warrick last summer, you know before we paid for Hunter and Gray….I couldn’t believe he was nabbed on only a 1 yr $3M deal….
Sadly....through thick and thin....
I too
Thought he would command more on the open market.
by MrSportsKnowItAll.com on Feb 22, 2010 3:43 PM CST up reply actions
Enough is enough
get over it already. That player you mention is no longer on the team let it go please. Its more productive to focus on our players.
The Dude Abides
it's more productive to get out of the basement too, but here I am
what’s your point?
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 22, 2010 12:40 PM CST up reply actions
As long as your mom feeds you. :)
it’s more productive to get out of the basement too, but here I am
We miss you, Tyrus Thomas and Ben Gordon!
by Granny Waiters on Feb 22, 2010 9:50 PM CST up reply actions
I was under the impression nothing I did on this site was "productive".
That’s specifically why I visit. To not be productive.
So what’s productive about it?
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
What players are we not getting over?
We miss you, Tyrus Thomas and Ben Gordon!
by Granny Waiters on Feb 22, 2010 9:49 PM CST up reply actions
I don't know what his point was, but I'm ROFLOL with your response.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
well we don't know what your point is
since you didn’t use the reply button.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 22, 2010 3:52 PM CST up reply actions
I always wondered that about you, Tyrusmancrush
You write such intelligent things but I don’t understand how you have not mastered the reply button yet. Explain please.
That's pretty funny
since you replied to yfbb with this
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
LOL....
you all are right!! There is nothing productive about participating on this blog the proof is in this thread. Some of the funnest things in life (e.g. getting one toke over the line) are not productive. So Maybe, I should of indicated instead that it gets a little boring hearing continual crying about someone’s man crush being traded.
Granny I have to presume you are joking about what player some are having trouble getting over the fact that he is no longer a Bull.
The Dude Abides
At least someone read my signature line.
Granny I have to presume you are joking about what player some are having trouble getting over the fact that he is no longer a Bull.
We miss you, Tyrus Thomas and Ben Gordon!
by Granny Waiters on Feb 25, 2010 10:45 PM CST up reply actions
I replied to your basement comment by hitting the reply button under it yfBB
I think someone is secretly sabotaging my responses because they hate me as much as they hated TT and will never forgive me for my undying support. Is there another invisible reply button that I’m not aware of?
If this doesn’t appear directly below your sarcastic comment (about my not using the reply button) which wounded me deeply, than I know there is a conspiracy afoot to humilate me.
But I will go down replying until my fingers are worn to the bone or until I’m banned, whichever comes first.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Feb 23, 2010 10:53 PM CST up reply actions
OK. I hit the reply and it jumped down underneath diedaily. Why the hatred, why the plotting?
Basketball isn’t life. Why not let my replies land on their intended targets. I only partake of these posts to spread good will and love and this is my reward. I have a feeling badnewsintennisshoes is one of the co-conspirators trying to bring me to my knees, but I also suspect there are many others hiding in the shadows.
Thank God, I never before revealed, I really enjoy watching JJ do whatever he’s trying to do. The results aren’t always pretty, but the show he puts on is always entertaining. OK, I admitted I have a growing JJpuppylove, so shoot me.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Feb 23, 2010 11:00 PM CST up reply actions
Sometimes reloading the page before replying fixes the problem
of the reply appearing in the wrong place.
We miss you, Tyrus Thomas and Ben Gordon!
by Granny Waiters on Feb 24, 2010 2:31 AM CST up reply actions
Don't do it man, it's not going to end well
I admitted I have a growing JJpuppylove
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
If you click on "up" beside
reply you will see your comment was a reply to Matt. diedaily responded to Matt before you did so his comment shows up first. bigballa commented on diedaily’s comment so those show up before yours does. When a post gets several replies they show up in the order they are posted.
OK I don't know shit about basketball.
by SoulEater7 on Nov. 5, 2009 9:51 PM CST
stats are great...
however it should be completely obvious at this point that Warrick is a much better professional basketball player than Tyrus, based off of intangibles alone. If it’s not, please stop watching the Bulls games. I am beyond ecstatic that Tyrus is out of Chicago. My thoughts run the same for Ben Gordon.
I miss Jamal Crawford...he's a 2, not a 1. Always has been.
by Knowledge32 on Feb 23, 2010 1:59 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Gordon wasn't a professional.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Funny how posters who seem to pound their chests about defense consistently undervalue players who actually try on that end.
Wait, wait let me guess, Warrick makes less mistakes on defense. He’s so intelligent, he just knows when to let opposing forwards dominate him.
Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 23, 2010 4:07 PM CST up reply actions
Ozzie
How long has Tyrus been with us? Although I love the occasional block and dunk Ty gives us. And he is athetic as hell. I’m not saying he’s a bad basketball player.
It’s all mental with him though. He doesn’t want to be a great player and you know what…that’s fine. He’s lazy and he’s completely happy with being an underacheiver. I’m just glad he is off the team. He’s a headcase.
I miss Jamal Crawford...he's a 2, not a 1. Always has been.
by Knowledge32 on Feb 23, 2010 5:09 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Thank you for your insights and mind reading abilities, Knowledge32
or would it be more appropriate if I called you Doctor Freud? You stated it’s completely obvious that Warrick is much better basketball player than TT, who’s lazy, and completely happy with being an underachiever.
On face value, it seems to me, “it’s completely obvious” that you have that observation ass-backwards, but then you may be seeing this on a deep subconscious level while I’m still repressing deep thoughts still buried in my unconcious mind thus remaining in a state of denial because I refuse to let go of my irrational mancrush obsession which has caused so much frustration to those wise one’s who have tried to guide me (and others in my cult) to the light of TajHakim transcendance.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
Why don't you go to Charlotte and write a poem personally?
I’m still repressing deep thoughts still buried in my unconcious mind thus remaining in a state of denial because I refuse to let go of my irrational mancrush obsession
That sounded nice and wierd at the same time. lol
But I can’t talk since I suck at poetry.
I applaud your loyalty
I miss Jamal Crawford...he's a 2, not a 1. Always has been.
by Knowledge32 on Feb 25, 2010 10:11 AM CST up reply actions
TT since the trade
FG% 0.528
FT% 0.867
RPG 7.5
APG 1.5
SPG 1.5
BPG 3.5
TOPG 2.2
PPG 12.8
by JustAnotherFan on Feb 26, 2010 11:15 AM CST reply actions
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