Why not trading Hinrich before the deadline is a good thing
by iamsasquatch on Feb 19, 2010 2:25 PM CST
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PrintThe trade deadline has passed, and the Bulls are well on their way to a quick first round playoff exit. The Bulls traded away Salmons and Thomas. Salmons was a no-brainer because now we don't have to worry about whether he will opt out or in this summer. And Tyrus.....well let's just say that even though not too many people here are happy about it, it's not like it was unexpected.
Hinrich was not traded though, and I noticed a lot of people are upset about it. I felt the same way......until I realized that it may actually be a good thing. Not only does it prevent the Bulls from totally tanking the rest of the season and missing the playoffs (with the scrub expirings we would have got in return), but I think it may actually put us in a better position for this summer. And here is why I feel this way....
The max free agents this summer will not only be looking to join a championship contender, but they'll be looking for money too. How can they get the most money? They can sign with their current team again, or join another team via sign and trade. For a sign and trade to occur, the team receiving the superstar player must have good players to send back that the other team would want. For example, even though the Knicks may have cleared enough space for two max free agents, that doesn't mean that they will get any of them, since they really decimated their roster and traded away all their first round picks for the next like 10 years. Nobody would want to do a sign-and-trade with them cause they don't have anyone to send back (after all, Eddy Curry's contract is not very attractive). The Bulls, on the other hand, have plenty of attractive young players. Rose is the only untouchable one. We can give away Deng, Hinrich, our rookies with their small contracts, and yes, even Noah.
So fast forward to the end of the season. You're Toronto and Bosh says he doesn't want to stay, and he will leave for nothing unless you do a sign and trade. Bulls can offer Deng and Noah (and in fact did just that before the trade deadline), and I don't think that the Raptors can get much better talent elsewhere. Noah is awesome and we all love him, yes. But I'd trade him in a split second if it meant getting Bosh. Atlanta is even worse off than Toronto, as Johnson is probably the least likely to stay out of all the big names this summer. He sees Bosh and Rose on our team, and I bet he would immediately sign with the Bulls, and get the championship contender and big market he deserves. Or, once again we could do a sign and trade. Hinrich and filler for Johnson.
And I'm just giving examples here.... Kurt is definitely an asset and we could trade him to a number of teams. He is a decent player who is only slightly overpaid. Besides, he has a front-loaded contract, and entering the last part of it. He is clearly tradeable - Boston would have taken him in return for junk expirings, and the Lakers would have traded for him if they could have unloaded Sasha's contract.
Besides, it's not like we would have enough cap room for two max agents if we had traded him. With sign and trades this summer, we can have two (Bosh and Johnson for instance), Rose, and left over room to sign other role players to fill out our roster.
So you say, what if they don't want to leave their current teams? Let's face it.... Lebron and Wade are not likely to. Bosh and Johnson might not want to either. Well, whether Hinrich is here or not would not make any difference in that respect. So trading him would have just made us worse this season, and the Bulls organization would have lost their favorite player. There would be no sense in doing that.
And this is why Hinrich staying is a good thing, or at least no different than Hinrich going. Because of the wonderful sign and trade possibilities, we are in good position for this summer. Couple that with the fact that we have Rose, a huge loyal fanbase, and a big market, and I really see us as the front runners out of any of the teams with cap room this summer that do not already have a max free agent on their team.
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I don't know if I'd go as far as calling him an "asset"
but I definitely agree with this line of thinking. I kinda wish there was a fifth option: “Would have preferred a trade, but not upset that he is here”. And you make a good point about the playoffs, the Bulls are something like 1-8 when he doesn’t play (I think I heard that in Gar’s thing yesterday), that can’t just be a coincidence. If making the playoffs is important for luring guys here, like most people seem to think, then that’s a pretty good reason to keep him around.
Neil takes the fun out of funk
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 19, 2010 2:37 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
I understand your reasoning
I just really wonder, in the current economic environment, if teams would rather have no one instead of Hinrich. And if so, what than? I mean, its true in theory that Bosh could force the Raps to sign and trade him to Chicago. But that doesn’t mean the Raps have to accept back any contract they don’t want. That goes for Cleveland, Miami, Phoenix and Toronto. It will be interesting… does packaging Hinrich with Deng or Noah make them more likely to take on his contract when given a series of bad choices? If I was Cleveland or Toronto, and the sign and trade was presented to me, I would do everything in my power to avoid taking back Hinrich. If I was Miami or Phoenix I may be a bit more receptive.
I think the possibility that we can sign and trade some combo of Noah, Deng and Hinrich or just sign a guy outright, gives us an edge. But I can’t just help to think that two guys we just traded away plus the one we let go last year, might not have been better trade pieces in a possible sign and trade. (Tyger’s theory)
by Basketball Smurf on Feb 19, 2010 2:38 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
Sounds right to me.
Deng’s and Noah are the guys that teams would ask for in a sign and trade, maybe JJ and Taj. I don’t think Hinrich will help us at all with a sign and trade, unless it were a team like the Lakers, who don’t have anyone we’re pursuing to begin with.
by NerdVernacular on Feb 19, 2010 2:41 PM CST up reply actions
I brought this up in another fan post...
Signing a free agent that makes Deng expendable is ok since he is putting up numbers and has value. Hinrich better increase his value the rest of the seasonor he is untradable. Nobody wants a 9mil a year 6th or 7th man off the bench.
i feel (hope?) like he will
i feel like he always picks it up after the all star break. especially with salmons out of the rotation, he should get more playing time….
by iamsasquatch on Feb 19, 2010 3:08 PM CST up reply actions
I too brought this up in another fan post
There was no sense in freeing up additional cap space by trading Kirk once the Bulls cleared enough to sign 1 max free agent because they can execute a sign-and-trade with decent assets (Hinrich, Deng, Gibson, #1s, and (gulp) Noah) with the Cavs, Heat, or Raptors after the season, if that will secure LeBron, Dwyane, or Bosh to join us. Or, if the superstars like our team as currently constructed (and value having a good supporting cast a little more than an extra year of salary), we’ll be able to sign one as a free agent outright.
Doesn't Hinrich's contract end two years from now?
Which is right when the new CBA should be installed, right? If that’s all true, then Hinrich’s deal might be a little more palatable to certain teams, seeing as most people think there will be a lockout and players are not paid during a work stoppage. So you might be paying him a lot less than you think. Although that could be a little bit of a stretch
Neil takes the fun out of funk
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 19, 2010 2:55 PM CST up reply actions
haha i like it
even though it is a bit of a stretch lol
by iamsasquatch on Feb 19, 2010 3:05 PM CST up reply actions
yeah you may be right about that
but we could trade noah and deng for bosh, and hinrich to someone else…. they dont all have to go together…. taj and jj are nice fillers too…..
by iamsasquatch on Feb 19, 2010 3:04 PM CST up reply actions
I'd rather have no one than Hinrich.
It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147
We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.
-- yfBB
God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.
by fundamentallysound on Feb 19, 2010 5:52 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Agree but for a different reason
Hinrich is struggling with his shot this year but he’s a good player. I’d much rather have him than Adam Morrison or some of the other garbage that was being floated around. Call me crazy but I still think you should try to get good players on your team when making trades, especially if you’re the Bulls and you have more money than any other team.
Besides, if you wanted to trade him at next year’s deadline you could always throw some cash into the deal to make Hinrich’s last contract year more palatable. That is, if you weren’t totally transfixed with making money.
The Chicago Bulls: Clippers East, since 1999
If the Bulls do a sign and trade and since they are well under the cap
they can take back salary can they not? In other words to get Bosh in a sign and trade all they have to do is send Hinrich. They would still have a lot of cap space for Wade in a sign and trade.
Raptors wouldn't want Hinrich
the Bulls have enough cap room to offer…James Johnson or something. To be honest it could take at least Noah and maybe Noah/Deng.
like it was said above I don’t think Hinrich is an ‘asset’ at his current contract. Heck if he was maybe they would’ve gotten better offers.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 19, 2010 3:43 PM CST up reply actions
he may not be an asset currently
And not for toronto any time soon. But when new york or someone else starts striking out with the max guys this summer, he will be. Or as part of a sign and trade. You just wait and see…….. i hope.
by iamsasquatch on Feb 19, 2010 3:47 PM CST up reply actions
I was thinking more of the concept
We don’t have to send enough players to match salaries of the incoming player(s). In fact we can do this with any team that wants to get under the LT. For example, we could trade Gibson for Millsap-just saying. If this is true the Bulls have a hugh amount of flexibility.
i think it is true and its a pretty good point
it potentially paves the way for the Bulls to deal a guy like Noah or Deng straight up for a very good player. Or, conversely, trade Taj or JJ to help a lesser but expensive talent (like Morrow).
by Basketball Smurf on Feb 19, 2010 4:02 PM CST up reply actions
all true
but I don’t see how Hinrich qualifies :)
honestly I always liked S/T as an option, which is why I wanted them to keep their assets intsead of punting them. I suppose Gordon long-term deal isn’t much of an asset either, but I’d think he’d be playing alright. Plus he’d be here at the hometown discount if they accepted it.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 19, 2010 5:14 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I think Kirk is rad. Im glad he is still a Bull
ShipTileDirect.com - Why pay expensive retail prices? When you can ShipTileDirect at a fraction of the cost.
Kirk Hinrich wouldn't be used in sign and trade for a superstar.
Teams losing a superstar aren’t looking taking on the contracts of lesser players.
Rashard Lewis is the most recent example of max contract sign and trade. What did Seattle get in the sign and trade? A conditional 2nd round pick and a giant trade exemption.
You keep Hinrich because he actually helps the team win games, not because he’s an asset in a trade.
by Scotter on Feb 19, 2010 4:05 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Hinrich is all the blogabullers know how to talk about
Dam. This whole forum is like one whiny batch of dreamers. Are we seriously going to go on about this until the end of hinrichs contract with the bulls.
why dont you people see that all of these damn players thta you think are sure shot answers to the nba finals are on better teams than the bulls and they cant do sqat.
Does anyone here think bosh of the raptors are worst than the buls. The raptors have a much better team than the bulls and are they anywhere close to a championship than us
Leborn is the like the biggest bitch out there. If that moron cannot win a team with shaq, jameson, peterson,verago, ilgaskus etc why would we think he can make it with us?
Dwade is older bruised up and honeslty speaking not worth a max salary when you think about the one lucky championship he got with a weak ass dallas team
If all of this retarded thinking is based on the celtics with the big three or lakeers with the big five, its pathetic. kobe who is the best player in the nba could not win without gasol and that to only the second time round.
d rose is our franchise player and we should build around him, if we get bosh which i think is the only one i want on this team then good if not then go after lee hinrich is key in this team and i will be very happy going after two playes who will not take the ball out of deriks hand and let him play like cp3
Bulls NBA CHAMPS BY 2010
by glycen on Feb 19, 2010 4:23 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Don't be afraid to capitalize words and use periods.
by diedaily23 on Feb 19, 2010 4:29 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Not to mention
using apostrophes and correct spelling of proper names.
We miss you, Ben Gordon!
by Granny Waiters on Feb 20, 2010 5:11 PM CST up reply actions
I dont think its dreamers i think it is more of a desire to be a true contender gly
I think all of the fans here just want to have the potential to see the light at the end of the tunnel is closer…
I agree that there are a few teams that currently are tops in the nba but look boston doesnt have the time left to do something like the bulls did in the 90s they are too old..
Kobe is past his prime but still a top dog currently but in a couple of years he wont be..
Dwade is still young but i can easily see him turning into the next tmac or anfernee hardaway in florida..and his team just doesnt have the pieces to contend right now.
Cleveland has gone all in….but will they win the showdown?
I think the bulls are a team that is young and up and coming to reign in the next few years along with a short list of other teams so why not make a move to get closer now….
As far as hinrich he can bag groceries for 9.5 million, if he were making 4 or 5 million nobody would give him this much attention but the fact is the bulls are paying him way to much money and that is the reason he is blogged so much…. If he were a 20 pt solid player he wouldnt get so much attention from bulls fans but he is overpaid and that makes people discuss him more and more
yeah i know
that we did give him a few mil more than he deserves. But honeslty the problem with the bulls is that they just got unlucky with alot of things. The team just went downhill by the Ben Wallace trade. We had one year where honestly we swept the heat and choked with wizards but after that we really just got unlucky. I still think that miami series after their championship year was the best first round for the bulls. The only reason that the boston series(which was great) did not make it my fave is because KG was out.
If the bulls can get Bosh next year and pass on dwade(small chance anyway), J Johnson, Amare, we will be the team in the east. Rose has grown into a player with alot of help with the Hinrich. He defends the opposite best gaurd.
And i am goin gto say it just for the few who feel the same as i do. And that is Hinrich was the first pick that was part of changing the bulls to a respectable team from the laughabulls that they were
Bulls NBA CHAMPS BY 2010
Some of these people may be dreamers,
but you are an idiot, sorry. But LeBron is a bitch? Wow, just wow. I don’t have anything else to say.
I would have liked to free up kirks money but...
the guy happens to be the bulls elder statesmen not in age but time with the bulls..and yes he does do things that help the team win..but anyone that has been with there respective team for any amount of time does… the biggest problem i have with hinrich is that he is making too much money.. if he were putting up 15 to 20 a game and playing strong minutes as a starter i would not say this but he just isnt.. i dont blame him for making 9 million a year I just dont think he is earning it…maybe with salmons out he will step his game up to the level that would put him closer to a 9 million a year player but i dont think he can play to that value..if he were making 5 million a year i wouldnt have so much of an issue with him..hinrich= versatile guard, above average defender(but not a all d team defender) and a player that knows the system and doesnt complain. But is that worth 9 million a year,,i dont think so. and that is my problem with him.
wow, the results of the poll so far are surprising
i would have bet money the majority of people go with no, and right now over 50% say yes……. i guess it was just a few outspoken people who were upset at hinrich still being here that gave me the impression it was widespread thinking throughout this blog
"don't blame me, i voted for no"
Doesn’t seem very moral to me. Might as well take Satan’s autograph while you’re at it. - N.C.
I'd guess somehow Blazers fans influenced this poll
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 20, 2010 12:15 PM CST up reply actions
I can see how you would get that impression
but it’s really just the same people posting over and over again for the most part.
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
lol damn
i was hoping my post was changing perspectives hahaha
by iamsasquatch on Feb 19, 2010 5:46 PM CST up reply actions
well, I mean, he's a good player
He should’ve been traded, but at the same time we can still use him, even though he’s being paid $5 million too much.
Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!
by Prevenge on Feb 19, 2010 11:49 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I guess I'm ok with him sticking around, it's more annoying that Gar is so obsessed with the fella.
He’d be more bearable if he could, you know, score points and stuff.
Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 19, 2010 6:28 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Hinrich is like a house worth $200,000 with $600,000 owed on the mortgage.
I can’t see him going nowhere unless the Bulls eat some salary. We should have dumped him a year and a half ago. Bulls Management are idiots. How do you unload an garbage asset like that. Oh and by the way, both Thomas and Salmons are looking good in their debuts.
by sadafan on Feb 19, 2010 8:17 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Lets take a look
a few games from now cause we all know tt can throw up phenomenal numbers here and there but can he do it consistently
Bulls NBA CHAMPS BY 2010
so he has to be phenomal then
seems like a bit of a high standard
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 20, 2010 12:16 PM CST up reply actions
It's always a high standard
people act like nobody else has bad games. I just hope Brown gives him consistent minutes at least because that was the main problem here IMO.
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
Robbie Gould took
a loss on his house too. At least they got their homes sold. A lot of people aren’t that lucky.
OK I don't know shit about basketball.
by SoulEater7 on Nov. 5, 2009 9:51 PM CST
while we offered noah/deng now
if we were to sign and trade (for, say, bosh) this summer the team being left has 0 leverage; generally the player is already out the door and they are only doing a sign and trade to give him a 6th year or more money. you don’t have to match contracts in a s&t with a team under the cap, so generally the team losing the player gets little to nothing back. for instance, rashard lewis was sign and traded to orlando for a 2nd rounder and a trade exception. hedo was sign and traded last summer, and all orlando got back was a trade exception. joe johnsons sign and trade was for draft picks and boris diaw— who was thought to be worthless at the time.
if we s&t someone this summer, there’s no way hinrich will be a part of it, and i’d be stunned if a player of deng or noahs caliber is included in it. the s&t will be for a pick or two and maybe james johnson.
http://ExtendtheGame.blogspot.com
Hinrich is an asset.
Kirk has started 26 games since being placed into the starting lineup, in those games he has averaged:
12.1PPG- 4.4REB- 5.0AST- 1.5TO- 1.1STL 41%FG 36%3PT
Keeping in mind that Kirk’s best skill is DEFENSE, these numbers are pretty good. If two of his missed 3pt shots had been good, his shooting percentages would be exactly on his career averages. He is a good player. His overall numbers are severely dragged down by the Bulls early season woes where: Rose wasn’t healthy, Kirk had nagging injuries, Salmons was starting, and the Bulls were struggling to adjust to the absence of BG.
I don’t really care that much about things like “intangibles”, or “thrust”, or “being a glue guy”. Kirk’s TANGIBLES are evident to those who look, and until they can replace him with somebody better they need to keep him. If I have an issue with Kirk not being traded, it’s that the Bull’s could not afford to trade him for crap expirings because they have completely failed to draft or sign any players who could replace him.
by kingles on Feb 20, 2010 2:58 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
41% is pretty crappy huh?
Well guess which NBA players is shooting 41.8% from the field, including only 30.4% for 3pt range. The answer is Ben Gordon.
Now I’m not trying to hate on Ben right now. All I’m saying is that it’s very possible for a player to shoot significantly worse than he’s capable of. This is happening to both Kirk and BG this year.
by Poloplaya14 on Feb 21, 2010 12:56 AM CST up reply actions
On the other hand,
a better player that Kurt could have been signed with the salary cap room this summer if he had been traded for expiring contracts.
We miss you, Ben Gordon!
I would rather have had T-Mac,
he is expiring and might be a top tier free agent we could sign for cheap, but if we weren’t getting him in a Kirk trade, I’m glad we kept Kirk.
by Uncle Stanley McGoober on Feb 21, 2010 3:34 AM CST reply actions
yeah, i dont think the rockets wanted kirk or salmons.....
and we offered either one of them along with tyrus for mcgrady. plus its only a matter of time until t-mac gets some injury again……
by iamsasquatch on Feb 21, 2010 9:22 AM CST up reply actions
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