Trade Deadline thoughts: at least there's a defined plan now
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 18, 2010 7:15 PM CST
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PrintWhen going into this trading deadline, the Bulls had a tough (if self-imposed) set of restrictions. They absolutely had to guarantee themselves maximum cap space heading into this offseason, else this 2010 'plan' was a complete joke. We can look at the lack of truly maximum free agents out there, and the handful of teams with the ability to sign the guys (including a couple with the ability to sign two), and see how the Bulls are likely not going to get a franchise-changing player (or correctly pay one that shouldn't command the max) out of this offseason, but once they set forth their plan on July 1st of reducing future payroll obtaining a second star through free agency, they had to at least give themselves the opportunity to sign someone to a maximum contract. Whether they spend that money wisely is an issue for the summer.
While completing this top goal, they also had to look at keeping themselves under the tax this season (with a little over a $1m in room), as well as keeping themselves competitive enough to make the playoffs. It is not easy, considering that the guys most eligible to be traded were Kirk Hinrich and John Salmons, and there wasn't much of a market for either that would net a return of attaining all three of those goals.
So by seemingly doing so in the Salmons trade, that's a job well done. It's also the most base, necessary job to do, but it is reassuring that the Bulls priorities at least truly were with this summer's free agency instead of the maximum possible success this season. We knew that this season didn't matter in terms of truly being 'a team on the rise', they are only one in terms of perception...but that's important too. As long as Rose and Noah play well, and the team is in the playoffs, a season of running in place (and possibly taking steps back) doesn't hurt their case much to prospective free agents. What would hurt more is not being able to offer them a maximum deal.
That said, it's still a bit disappointing that the Bulls couldn't wane on some of their other goals to get yet more cap. While I did not think moving Deng simply for cap space was worth the risk (as he's an above-average young player still), I wish I felt confident that they did what they could to deal Hinrich, and better allocate the $17m he's owed over the next two seasons. We know they had an opportunity to move Hinrich for expiring deals, but let's face it: the Bulls really like Kirk Hinrich. We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, 'glue guy', 'thrust', and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it's become increasingly clear that it can't be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don't) say that they believe their own hype. They really do think it's worth the extra potential cap space for what he brings in his ability to help the team make the playoffs this season, and even help them after they get top free-agent.
So there's that limitation of not wanting to get too much worse, and the luxury tax always looming, that kept the Bulls from making an even bolder move, like trading Hinrich for 'junk' exprings, or packaging him in a deal for Amare Stoudemire. They truly think Hinrich helps that much. They're incorrect, but Hinrich is not useless, and will help this team down the stretch of this season, in fact being counted on more than ever.
Because they did not get great talent back in this combination of deals. They've seemingly kept to their philosophy of not even giving VDN the choice of having too many toys, as Joe Alexander and Acie Law are pretty much useless to the point where VDN will (rightfully) not even try them out. It's cumulatively a 2-for-2 swap of actual rotation players, with Salmons gone for Flip Murray, and Tyrus Thomas gone for Hakim Warrick. No doubt the package coming from the Bucks necessitated the move of Thomas for guards, as the roster was imbalanced and we know VDN would love to not play Tyrus in favor of a new acquisition.
(I can't get into the overall bungling of Tyrus Thomas, we know the Org. doesn't like guys like him, and likes guys like Hinrich, but as it stood today I see their point of moving him after acquiring Warrick. Getting a draft pick (especially a Bobcats one) is a nice bonus, but don't be fooled by Bulls brass saying that this move helped their cap situation, because they could renounce Tyrus and his cap hold just as easily as they would with Brad Miller. The fact that they didn't get more for him makes me wonder if the beef between him and VDN was worse than they were letting on, else I'm not sure why they pay the pick compensation-a swap of firsts and two seconds- to get Warrick when he so obviously duplicated Tyrus. I'm going to miss the guy and am now far more a Bobcats fan than I was 24 hours ago.)
The problem is that both of what the Bulls received are worse than their counterparts. We know that Tyrus and Salmons have not had good seasons and were relegated to the bench, but Warrick is more polished but similar to Tyrus on offense, and the team defense and rebounding will certainly suffer (no matter how you think Tyrus' contributions on that end were all hype, the smaller and slighter Warrick has the same lapses with none of the shot-altering). And as much as we quickly soured on Salmons as an inefficient chucker, he was playing better whereas Flip Murray shoots and makes even fewer 3-pointers than Salmons did.
The Bulls didn't have a high margin for error in terms of making the playoffs as it was, so this is a risk. But you don't swap players and help your cap situation without losing a bit on the talent ledger. The 2010 plan was always about getting worse first, and this day of moves is worth it for even the opportunity to score in the offseason. And if VDN isn't forced to coach, Noah gets healthy soon, and Derrick Rose continues to mask a lot of mistakes, they should be fine. Fine as in a first-round exit, but that was the plan all along.
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The 2010 plan is not over yet
They MUST and I trust they will fire VDN this summer. The lack of support and vote of confidence seemingly seals the deal, but you never know.
Wooing a coach isn’t as popular as wooing a max FA, but the former may impact the latter.
So in closing…..as far as I’m concerned, there’s still some leftover business.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
by PeteRoc on Feb 18, 2010 7:24 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I don't see Vinny
being back as the coach next season. I am wondering who they may have in mind to replace him? Could have a lot of bearing on which FA they can get.
OK I don't know shit about basketball.
by SoulEater7 on Nov. 5, 2009 9:51 PM CST
Oh I forgot to mention..
They asked Gar Forman again about Vinny being the coach next season and Gar mentioned how they liked the job Vinny is doing but he wouldn’t say his job is safe. Gar looked squirmy.
Beasley spent the first two quarters like he was wandering through a forest.-Neil Funk
Gar always looks squirmy.
OK I don't know shit about basketball.
by SoulEater7 on Nov. 5, 2009 9:51 PM CST
Seriously that is so annoying, even as a fan
Just say his job his safe for the season. Is it that difficult?
by LoveForTheGame on Feb 18, 2010 8:18 PM CST up reply actions
Interesting.
Could have a lot of bearing on which FA they can get.
Some may come out of the woodwork depending who the Bulls sign.
Beasley spent the first two quarters like he was wandering through a forest.-Neil Funk
This was not about Tyrus...
I’m not sure why they pay the pick compensation-a swap of firsts and two seconds- to get Warrick when he so obviously duplicated Tyrus.
The Bulls paid that price to get rid of Salmons, and his potential to opt-in next Summer…as evidenced by the numerous reports of players getting swapped in and out of that deal…it was not about who they were getting back, it was about the expiring contracts they were getting back…
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
And before you say...
I suck…
I am agree, I am going to miss Tyrus a lot…he was my favorite Bulls before D. Rose and Noah arrived on the scene…and I too will pay a bit more attention to the Charlotte games.
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
you suck
I meant that they probably paid the extra price to get Warrick/Alexander instead of KurtThomas/Elson, because Warrick could help right away (and they’d be better suited to deal Thomas)
I don’t know that for sure, obviously.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 18, 2010 11:30 PM CST up reply actions
If the Bulls get a top tier FA this summer then we'll look back at today as a great day
It’s way too early to pass judgment.
Kurt is still on the team. : (
We miss you, Ben Gordon!
by Granny Waiters on Feb 18, 2010 11:19 PM CST up reply actions
bah
a lot of that has to do with luck, too. I do credit them for putting themselves in position.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 18, 2010 11:31 PM CST up reply actions
I think we're screwed in terms of getting a real max contract guy (LeBron / Wade / Bosh).
For a couple of reasons:
1. It makes the most financial sense for them to stay on their own teams or at least get a S&T and we have crap for assets at the moment, so a S&T is out.
So that’s 3 teams we’re competing with right off the bat and we’re at a disadvantage relative to those teams for simple financial reasons.
2. NYK can sign two max FAs now. If you’re an NBA superstar, would you rather play in NYC for D’Antoni with another superstar and Donnie Walsh pulling the strings or would you rather come to play in Chicago with Del Coacho and the GarPaxDorf cluster fuck? I know where I’d go. Additionally, NJN has tons of cap space this summer and could potentially get a max guy and get him some help. Additionally, their Russian billionaire owner to be has made it clear that he’s going to go HUGE in spending for coaching and GM quality. They also have a guy at center posting a 21+ PER at 21 years old and an All-Star level PG (when he’s not moping). I’d say they are at least as appealing as the Bulls especially when they get their coach and new GM hired. So that’s two destinations that I’d see as more desirable than the Bulls from the perspective of an NBA superstar and 3 max contract slots between them and additional cap space (NJ will enough for a max and a bunch of extra space beyond that, but not quite two maxes). Then, on top of all that, the Clippers made a sneaky good trade to remove enough 2010 salary to make a max bid with their talented squad. Baron Davis, Eric Gordon, Blake Griffin, and Chris Kaman probably looks pretty good and it’s freaking LA. Now, it is Sterling and Dumbleavy so that might make them worse off than the Bulls, but given the LA weather and women and night life, I’d say at best it’s a wash. So now by my count we’ve got 6 teams better positioned than the Bulls for 3 guys that are actually worthy of a max deal.
3. Joe Johnson just feels like destiny. Horrible, terrible ugly destiny. And we’ll still have a big hole at PF since we just traded away the only one that was worth starting for a bag of balls and we will only have enough space to sign JJ this summer and maybe a sub-MLE type guy.
It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2010 7:36 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Its even worse than that....you forgot about Miami
I think they’re best positioned of all especially since their best positioned to (1) resign Wade, and then (2) get somebody else, which effectively puts them in the Knicks category of affording two max FAs.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
No, Miami is in that first group of "their own teams" that can offer them more money.
They’re the first three that the Bulls are competing with.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Oops....right about that....oversight on my part
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
I think Miami
Has a coaching situation too, Wade’s virtually called out Spoelstra a few times this year….and there’s some truth that guys might want to go to a team where fans show up to watch them play. I know Miami is Miami but how they don’t sell out everyday to see the amazing player that Wade is every night is beyond me.
Sadly....through thick and thin....
I understand your point
But what do you think the Bulls should have done instead. The Bulls most likely will not have VDN as their coach for next season. Free-agency is no guarantee for any team and the Bulls pretty much gave their best shot at gathering quality players (Rose, Noah, Deng) to attract the big name stars to come play in this city. The one knock is that the Bulls should’ve traded Hinrich for more cap space, but besides that the Bulls are in full force focused on the summer of 2010 and that is all I can ask as a fan.
by LoveForTheGame on Feb 18, 2010 7:51 PM CST up reply actions
Trade Kirk Hinrich for expiring contracts.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
by tyger1147 on Feb 18, 2010 7:52 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I would've done that
But the Bulls truly believe Hinrich is a starting two guard in the NBA. They are clearly going for Bosh this summer. They want Rose, Hinrich, Deng, Bosh, and Noah as their starting five and that is a championship contender for next season. They still will need to find a starting two guard for the future, since Hinrich is old. I do not completely agree with it , but that’s what management believes
by LoveForTheGame on Feb 18, 2010 7:55 PM CST up reply actions
Which is why they are dumb and why this team is mismanaged. Kirk is a bench player. He's a solid defender
with an 11 PER. He’s not good. He’s not starting caliber at that position for a title team, especially not a team where Derrick is the starting PG, because you need more 3 point shooting in your backcourt than that to win.
It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2010 7:57 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Hopefully the Bulls luck out with a SG in the draft
that can start for us almost instantly. Then we can move Hinrich to the third guard/ sixth man type spot where he belongs.
by LoveForTheGame on Feb 18, 2010 7:59 PM CST up reply actions
Do you mean re-draft Ben Gordon?
Sorry….I couldn’t resist. I don’t mean to rehash “old stuff.”
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
This is what I hope for
Rose/Hinrich
Xavier Henry/Hinrich
Deng/James Johnson
Bosh/Taj
Noah/ Mid-level exception center
This team would be a dream come true
by LoveForTheGame on Feb 18, 2010 8:01 PM CST up reply actions
Oh haha gotcha
It’s a fuckin good lineup.
by LoveForTheGame on Feb 18, 2010 8:37 PM CST up reply actions
Henry won't be good for another 3-5 years.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
You're forgetting about Omer Asik
So you team will be:
Rose/Hinrich
Henry/Hinrich
Deng/JJ
Bosh/Taj
Noah/ Asik
You’d probably want to splurge on a combo guard and a backup PF.
Asik...
Can only be signed with cap space…so, unless the Bulls make a sign and trade in the offseason, if it is unlikely for ASik to join the Bulls
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
Bulls management is dumb??? I'm sure other GMs would agree.
Looks like we are stuck with Hinrich’s onerous contract for another year. When Noah’s contract comes up for renewal, maybe then they will have to get rid of “Mr. Brick” Hinrich.
by sadafan on Feb 18, 2010 8:06 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
He's 5th starter caliber, which is what he would be.
A team with 2 all-stars (Rose and Bosh) plus two guys who are very close (Noah, Deng) can afford to have one mediocre starter on the team.
I fear keeping 9.5mil backup Hinrich is a sign of continued mediocrity for the next 10 years
If I was a Max FA I would rather go to Miami, LA Clippers or NY for 5 years than to play with “Mr. Rudy” Hinrich. We’ll probably just end up overpaying for another player in the twilight of his career. We’ll continue to strive for a first round and out maximum profit team.
by sadafan on Feb 19, 2010 8:42 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Hmm.
Vinnie Johnson was a solid rotation man with a 12.9 PER in the Pistons 1989-90 year…..and he played a offensive scoring position that helps his PER.
Kirk’s PER has improved from the throws of horrible mediocrity since he was put in as a starter, and our team is winning.
And Kirk’s best play is on the D end which doesn’t always appear in the PER calc and definitely isn’t properly judged.
Sadly....through thick and thin....
While not a glamorous thing to say...
Hinrich is a fifth starter on a championship team…and a team of Noah, Bosh, Deng, Hinrich and Rose would be a contender…
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
Lindsay Hunter
could probably play that fifth starter role on the Lakers and they would win a championship next to Kobe, just sayin’.
by LoveForTheGame on Feb 18, 2010 8:49 PM CST up reply actions
the point is to always get better
and by trading Hinrich we somewhat limited ourselves
by LoveForTheGame on Feb 18, 2010 8:51 PM CST up reply actions
not enough 3 point shooting in the starting lineup for that to be a contender.
It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147
We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.
-- yfBB
God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2010 8:57 PM CST up reply actions
You can bring a 3 pt guy off the bench
There’s more than enough to compete. Rose is unguardable, Bosh is unguardable, both demand double teams and now that Deng is learning finally to run the court and be aggressive again he’s there, and Noah is smart, can handle and pass for a C which is perfect.
Sadly....through thick and thin....
I don't know
If they truly believe Hinrich is a starting 2 guard int he league. I think they know he’s a starter but know more importantly that he 1) plays better next to Rose than Salmons did at filling in the 2 spot out of position and more importantly know 2) if they lost HInrich for a crap package like Vujacic and Morrison, they’d be down a legit starter and would be in big jeopardy of missing the playoffs this year….
As it stands we’re probably in the low 40 wins range, good enough for a 6th-8th seed……losing Hinrich for Vujacic, would cost us more….and putting Salmons back into the 2 is the team we had when we started off what 10-17 this year….they didn’t want to risk that….even if I’d say Salmons when a 3 is better than Kirk is at the 2…..but there’s no need for Salmons at the 3, and Kirk’s never gonna be our PG barring injury with Rose such an elite player.
Derrick Rose is amazing….just wanted to add that….he’s really really surprised me the past 2 months. I mean I knew he was good and going to be a lock all star candindate, but he’s a total franchise mega superstar the way he’s playing right now the past 2 months and only gonna get better…..
Sadly....through thick and thin....
I disagree I think the Bulls and Clippers are in the best positions.
Beasley spent the first two quarters like he was wandering through a forest.-Neil Funk
I pretty much agree
but they made that choice last offseason.
I suppose they could’ve pre-empted 2010 by dealing for Stoudemire, but just don’t like him.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 18, 2010 11:33 PM CST up reply actions
I find it VERY interesting
That the Suns asked Houston to waive the required physical on Amar’e and that’s why he wasn’t dealt because Houston said no to that….
That’s another huge flag on the Amare front….to go with his mailing it in games and lack of effort at all defensively or ont he boards.
Amar’e is the younger Baron Davis….extremely talented and can be absolutely sensational when motivated, puts up great numbers for times (course Amare’s helped there by the incredible Nash), but there’s just too many flags on him…..
Sadly....through thick and thin....
My response
1. The bottom line isn’t solely about the player’s salary. A large market like Chicago with a high % of basketball fans offers a lot more endorsement opportunities than Miami, Cleveland, and especially Toronto. Granted, the Knicks, Nets and Clippers trump the Bulls in that department, but that leads me to my next point…
2. The Knicks suck plain and simple. They have very little returning talent and any player who’s serious about winning a title will not go there. The Nets are a legit threat, but they’re not really in NY (yet) so I put them on the same level as Chicago in terms of market size. And I’d say the Bulls have a better core, albeit not by much. Also, only one player can sign there, so even if they beat us out for one FA, we got other options. As for the Clippers, their organization is a complete joke (even moreso than ours). Yeah they got a large market, but they have to share that market with the Lakers and Kobe. Will LeBron, Wade, or Bosh want to be the second-biggest star in their own market? I doubt it.
3. Joe Johnson is basically the worst-case scenario, and even though his decline is inevitable, he still gives us all-star play for 2 years, which I think is worth it.
In Chicago
You already have 1 superstar—Derrick Rose has joined that realm the past 2 months….
You have 2 very solid rotation championship contending pieces in Noah and Deng to fill the gaps
A huge market full of crazy Bulls fans
And cap room to add the max superstar….
I think Bosh is our most likely guy because we can probably have him without a S&T given the size of our market.
We may have a chance with Wade who just wants to win.
I don’t think a player who’s tired of not winning in their current spot is going to be as eager to go to a Nets or Knicks as the New York hype would have you think. I mean remember it wasn’t that long ago that Houston had 2 max superstars and did nothing…..and a team like the Knicks even with a pick and 2 max’d guys are going to struggle a bit….
The NETS likely have the inside track for a John Wall, but what if instead of being a Derrick Rose star out of the gate, he comes in and I don’t know Jay Williams, Andrew Bogut’s, Greg Oden’s it, Michael Beasley’s it…..as those guys were can’t miss and while all but Jay might be something soon, it hasn’t been an immediate jump from college to pro’s.
I think the Bulls are in decent shape, and well the rest will just have to play out. I do think Bosh’s (we’re playing better but nobody knows or talks about) comments during that open session at the all star weekend, were telling, he’s going…..save for a ECF appearance by the Raptors—which I just don’t see happening this year.
Sadly....through thick and thin....
For me, the biggest news about this deadline for a Bulls fan
Is that a bunch more teams can now offer max free agents (and the Knicks can offer TWO). That puts a bit of a crimp into my enthusiasm for what they’ve done – it looks really good in an absolute sense, but less good when considered relative to the rest of the league.
"You ain’t as hot as I is / all of these false prophets is not messiahs /
You don’t know how high the sky is / the square mileage of earth or what pi is." - Nas
See my above post. That was my exact feeling. NYK getting the space to make a bid for two max guys made me die
a little inside. Then the Clippers getting max space was also awful. It just makes the Bulls’ likelihood of landing one of the 3 big fish worth landing go way, way down.
It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2010 7:39 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, it's just poor strategy
The bulls kind of handcuffed themselves, but when every other team zigs, you should try and zag. The only team that really zagged was Cleveland, and they’re freakin’ loaded and will likely keep LeBron, and they did it while exploiting everyone else who was trying to make themselves available to get LeBron. This summer’s going to be a lot like the supposed-vaunted summer of 2000 (or was it a different year?)… not that much movement, the big ticket (then Duncan, now LeBron) stayed put, and the bulls ended up empty-handed (ron mercer, joe johnson… same thing)
Your comment came in while I was typing
I had a bad feeling there’d be some duplication, but I didn’t feel like stopping, reading, and then replying. :)
"You ain’t as hot as I is / all of these false prophets is not messiahs /
You don’t know how high the sky is / the square mileage of earth or what pi is." - Nas
no, not even close
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 18, 2010 11:35 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
It's nerve-racking for me in the sense that the player will be able to have a lot more options.
How many teams can offer the max now? 7? There’s going to be seven teams that can offer the same amount of money to a free agent (save the team they’re at currently who can offer more).
So what can tip the favor to a specific team? It can be literally anything; the type of market, the city, the climate, clauses in their contracts (like Nike offering James more money if he goes to a big-market team which kind of means nothing considering his contract expires with Nike this year), personal reasons. Literally anything.
Let’s hope Chris Bosh loves wind slapping you in the face in the morning, and Little India or something.
Why the strike out?
?
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
heh, gotcha
just wondering if there was something I was missing.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
If by Little India you mean Devon Ave.
Then he won’t leave Toronto. They have Gerard St. (something along those lines) that is bigger and better than Devon Ave. – and I love me some Devon Ave.
"You ain’t as hot as I is / all of these false prophets is not messiahs /
You don’t know how high the sky is / the square mileage of earth or what pi is." - Nas
by Jivas on Feb 18, 2010 8:06 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Bah,Gerard St. sucks compared to Devon. It's bigger, but the food doesn't come close.
Plus, has Anthony Bourdain been to Toronto yet?
Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 18, 2010 10:22 PM CST up reply actions
I love Devon too
great food
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
Ha
good stuff, man its been a few years since ive been in devon..
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Feb 18, 2010 11:46 PM CST up reply actions
Not really
Yes the Knicks can now offer 2, but Houston is now out of the running. The Kings,Wizards and Clippers can now offer a max deal, but they aren’t what I’d call more attractive destinations than Chicago, and those teams were expected to get under the cap anyways. It would have been great if they’d failed in their attempts but oh well. And there are a few other teams that could have put themselves in position to get a max FA but didn’t (OKC, Portland).
The Clippers to me
Are the scariest (well I think I’d go):
Miami—if Wade truly wants to stay with his friendship of Lebron and Bosh that’s a huge chip….Course I don’t think Lebron would go to Miami to make less than Wade, but ya never know….
Then I think it’s a battle between the Bulls and Clippers….
I know the Clippers have the deserved loser tag, but they’ve got way too much talent to be this crappy with Baron Davis, Eric Gordon, Blake Griffin and Kaman…..
Compare that to
Rose, Deng, Noah…..and well…..I think the Clippers have the edge (of course Baron Davis has to be motivated but they’ve got 4 extremely gifted players to our 3, and well I would think LA with the Hollywood, sun and fun, etc is just going to be more attractive)….but who knows.
Of the Bulls vs Clippers, Rose is the best talent (in that he’s proven as such, we haven’t really seen Griffin yet in the NBA..and well…Rose is an extreme and proven talent at that level, which is a win for us)…..but they have to be the legimate threat to steal another player.
Sadly....through thick and thin....
Except...
The Clippers “talent” have not shown the ability to win games as they sit 6.5 games behind the Bulls will 21 wins…
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
But
One of their main pieces has been out all year and that’s a plus….
And well I think the players in the league know how good a motivated Baron Davis can still be….
But I agree.
I think the LA market though is a nicer atmosphere than Chicago for these mega superstars….and imagine if they turned that team around….
Though I guess with Griffin, they might not want to take on Bosh, but Wade and perhaps Lebron….who knows.
Sadly....through thick and thin....
The income and sales tax rates here in California are among the highest in the country.
Just one more thing to consider.
Sales tax
In Chicago though I am quite confident are the highest in the country (I know we were higher than LA when I was there in Oct).
Sadly....through thick and thin....
Chicago has the highest sales tax in country.
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
by Dionysus2.0 on Feb 19, 2010 12:26 PM CST up reply actions
If you are referring to a rookie as a main piece...
Then you are correct…but why would a free agent give a shit about a rookie who has not shown he can play in the NBA? He wouldn’t…
Baron Davis has never been a consistently good basketball player…
L.A. is better city than Chicago (IMHO), and certainly a bigger stage, but that stage is in the shadows of the Lakers…
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
by Dionysus2.0 on Feb 19, 2010 12:26 PM CST up reply actions
#1 overall pick though
Is a draw….for players and the league…unless word is around the players that he’s perm damanged…I think it’s a legit draw.
Sadly....through thick and thin....
i don't see two max guys going to new york.
even with a great duo, who the fuck are they playing with? i see it more likely that they try to sign a max guy and retain david lee.
and who the fuck actually wants to play for the clippers? it amazes me though. many times, they seem like they could be good… and then fail.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
Who will they play with?
Isn’t that what they said about the celtics when they traded all their players for Garnett and Allen?
paul pierce?
and rondo was just finishing his rookie season. he was still up and coming but he was enough.
is there anyone of remote quality of either of those guys on the knicks? no, especially when if 2 max guys come they won’t have the room to sign david lee. so it’s two stars and trash. i just don’t see it happening.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
Rondo sucked his rookie year. No one expected much out of him.
It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2010 7:59 PM CST up reply actions
now youre just pissed and making stuff up.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
he was manifestly not bad or pretty bad.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
He had an abysmal TS% and a 13ish PER. He couldn't shoot straight. He was bad.
It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147
We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.
-- yfBB
God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2010 8:46 PM CST up reply actions
oh wow. i didnt know the nba was merely a shooting contest. you must be right. and cranky since half these bitter comments are yours.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
I watched more Celtics games that year than I care to count. He was not good. He showed flashes, but he
was a bad player and anyone who says differently didn’t watch that team. I lived in Boston at the time, and watched loads of C’s games. He was not very good at all.
It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147
We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.
-- yfBB
God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2010 8:49 PM CST up reply actions
sure looks like the team was better with him
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
all that tells me is that his backup (Sebastian Telfair) was freaking terrible. Says nothing
about Rondo.
Raw +/- is useless. Stop using it to try to prove arguments. It doesn’t work that way.
It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147
We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.
-- yfBB
God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2010 8:53 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
telfair was a positive +/- too that year.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
it's a useless stat. there were loads of positive +/- guys on that team apparently, but
yet they were one of the absolute worst teams in basketball.
It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147
We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.
-- yfBB
God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2010 8:58 PM CST up reply actions
All of this is to say he played like someone drafted in the 20s in the first round. This idea
that people thought he would develop into the player he is today is ridiculous. Everyone was down on the guy. He didn’t really start to look good until the Big 3 was formed.
It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147
We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.
-- yfBB
God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2010 8:50 PM CST up reply actions
Uh, no, it's in comparison to what he was drafted.
Look at his stats to know how effective he was in his first year.
.472 TS%, .424 eFG% -.01 OWS and DWS 2.6
Wow, that’s fucking putrid. Even Hinrich has done better this year, and Hinrich is a horrible guard. Look at Hinrich’s stats this year, statistically his worse year in his career:
.475 TS%, .448 eFG% .00 OWS and DWS 1.8
More of less the same. Great job Rondo, you were as good as Hinrich was in his worst year.
And did you really try to pull out +/- in ONE YEAR? Really? That’s the basis of your argument? Let’s look at the other guards in the game besides him:
13 Delonte West
30 Sebastian Telfair
12 Allan Ray
42 Tony Allen
How oh how was he going to surpass against Sebastian Telfair??! Jesus Christ.
by NittanyCub on Feb 18, 2010 9:07 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Yep. Well said.
It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147
We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.
-- yfBB
God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2010 9:09 PM CST up reply actions
the point is: was he bad for a young, rookie point guard on a bad and tanking
team, to the point where you would say, “nothing is expected of this player”? i have to think the answer is no. there is a reason why ainge fought to keep him from MIN and i doubt it was just that they needed bodies.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
he had shown flashes, but no one thought he had this in him.
The Big 3 really, really helped his development. A lot.
It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147
We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.
-- yfBB
God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2010 9:17 PM CST up reply actions
It's also worth remembering that Rondo played most of his minutes with Pierce who is a ridiculously good
player and was having a fantastic season that year on a terrible, terrible team.
It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147
We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.
-- yfBB
God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2010 9:16 PM CST up reply actions
He was a first rounder...
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
In fairness, LeBron himself is about twice as good as Paul Pierce
Thrusting toward the playoffs, one game at a time.
but I get your point
their supporting cast is non-existent
???, Chandler, LeBron, Bosh, Curry with Gallo off the bench?
Thrusting toward the playoffs, one game at a time.
T Douglass at point?
Not overwhelming, but with LeBron and Wade on the team he could turn into a solid player.
by JockstrapNoah on Feb 18, 2010 8:21 PM CST up reply actions
i was just saying that the boston argument wasn't valid
they had no bench, but they did at least have paul pierce.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
But hasn't Lebron
Had enough years as being so ridiculously awesome with crap next to him? He’s staying in Cleveland or if he does miraculously bolt I think it’s really going to be for the Clippers or Bulls
THe Nets SHOULD be in that conversation but a 4-49 start defies all logic even if tehy’re tanking. Lopez should get them more wins by himself (and I’m glad to see that Devin Harris was as flukey as I thought last year—though he was great last year, it was just so out of left field….I know he’s been injured, but he’s playing basically where it should be expected….I also thought the same of Jameer…
Sadly....through thick and thin....
We didn't know
Just how good Rondo was then….and yeah Paul Pierce is an elite superstar (though today a bit overrated)….
Sadly....through thick and thin....
if LeBron and another max are there, they'll be good
and they don’t have the win the title that next year.
What’s NY famous for? Spending a shitload of money poorly. But they do spend a shitload of money.
I think if LeBron leaves it’d be for something for his ‘brand’, and that’s being the savior of the New York Knicks.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 18, 2010 11:37 PM CST up reply actions
well, true
i guess i just don’t know if i believe that 2 max free agents will go “hey! we can play with each other, and garbage” and think it’s so much better than looking at chicago and going “hey, we can play with derrick rose, noah, and deng”. derrick at least seems pretty well liked as well.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
My biggest problem with keeping Hinrich is that he's playing SG. Are we now just looking at 2010 PFs?
The two most likely players for the Bulls, in my opinion, are Joe Johnson and Dwyane Wade (in that order of likelihood). So what happens if they sign one of them? Then what? Think they’ll trade Hinrich then? Anyone who thinks “yes,” I don’t know what to say. And they certainly won’t get a player in his salary level that’s good at PF. Had they cleared Hinrich’s salary for expiring contracts, they could have maybe pawned Gibson or Johnson off on a team under the cap to get enough space, or just used them in a sign-and-trade to get David Lee.
As much as I was just bitching about Thomas and not getting a couple of extra wins, I would have sacrificed another 3 or 4 for the chance at Dwyane Wade AND an actual starting PF.
And I guess that’s my problem with this whole trade deadline: they didn’t do enough to make a real run at improving the team a lot better. I’d much rather have an overpaid Joe Johnson and an overpaid David Lee to go along with Noah, Deng and Rose than an overpaid Kirk Hinrich and an overpaid Joe Johnson.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
by tyger1147 on Feb 18, 2010 7:49 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
i agree
from everything gar said, it seems like they had the opportunity to move kirk and didn’t pull the trigger, too much glue on their hands or something
We just need to execute better - Lovie Del Negro
by Illini0509 on Feb 18, 2010 7:52 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe they do something in the summer.
Beasley spent the first two quarters like he was wandering through a forest.-Neil Funk
They can't do anything worthwhile in the summer. The chance to dump him was now. We're stuck with him.
It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147
We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.
-- yfBB
God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2010 8:12 PM CST up reply actions
I just puked
Thrusting toward the playoffs, one game at a time.
by Illini15 on Feb 18, 2010 8:12 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Cant they trade him for a 9 mill a year PF and then sign a max SG?
by MilkThenClear on Feb 18, 2010 9:03 PM CST up reply actions
Who would trade big for small for Kirk frickin Hinrich?
It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147
We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.
-- yfBB
God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2010 9:04 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Kurt plus one of the 1st rounders
The way Gar was talking about getting the pick for tyrus being such an asset makes me think they already have an idea of a few moves to deal it
by MilkThenClear on Feb 18, 2010 9:09 PM CST up reply actions
Hopefully VDN will be gone by then too
and he can be Kirk again
by MilkThenClear on Feb 18, 2010 9:10 PM CST up reply actions
I doubt anyone will be interested in Kirk's terrible deal and a future pick in 2012 for their 9 million dollar big man
and even if we could get ANY big for Kirk’s deal, chances are it’d be a guy on an equally bad or worse contract.
It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147
We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.
-- yfBB
God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2010 9:11 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
But yeah, if they get a PF, then Hinrich is only overpaid by 3 or 4 million as a SG.
But what happens when his contract expires and Rose’s extension starts and Noah’s is already going and Deng is still making $12 mil/yr and whoever they sign this summer is still owed their combined $18 million?
No trading Kirk Hinrich is just such a short-sighted view.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Kirk is not just overpaid, he's not that good.
Deng is actually good and overpaid. So there is an upside to keeping Deng, in that at least they have a decent SF.
Kirk is an bad choice as a 2 guard to pair with Rose. You could argue that a stiff that can shoot the 3 really well but doesn’t do much of anything else would be a better choice.
by hitlesswonder on Feb 18, 2010 8:06 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Why in Hell would a Max FA want 2 play next to Hinrick????
Bulls management is delusional. I’m not feeling optimistic.
by sadafan on Feb 18, 2010 8:59 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't know
But Paul Pierce in last year’s playoffs said twice that Kirk Hinrich was teh guy they were most worried about controlling because he drives the team….
Twice he said that on TNT.
Sadly....through thick and thin....
maybe that is why the series went 7
poor strategy by the Celtics
by Basketball Smurf on Feb 19, 2010 11:12 AM CST up reply actions
Hopefully we draft Xavier Henry or even James Anderson
this summer, but I’m sure we’ll go for some “gritty glue guy” that only fits in attitude and not skillset.
Thrusting toward the playoffs, one game at a time.
CBA will be totally different at that point.
Or at least Stern would like it to be different.
by JockstrapNoah on Feb 18, 2010 8:22 PM CST up reply actions
Under the new CBA Hinrich will likely be an even worse deal.
It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147
We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.
-- yfBB
God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2010 8:22 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I think I was probably a bit optimistic earlier
in the sense that I was happy with what the Bulls had done (well, I was), but then when the Knicks pulled the Jefferies trigger, my confidence for the summer seriously waned. It’s almost like the Bulls didn’t realize that they’re not in a vacuum. Someone should inform Gar and the rest of the cardboard dummies that other teams were making moves in the last 24 hours as well, and maybe that means we should have altered our strategy and really gone for broke.
Thrusting toward the playoffs, one game at a time.
I think the Bulls know they aren't signing anyone that good this summer
They have to pantomime the effort to look good in the media. Realistically, Joe Johnson is the best player they might get. More likely is a guy like Lee. There’s a reason why KC thinks they won’t sign anyone of note and why Sam thinks they’ll go after Lee. Those are the most likely scenarios.
I’ll be happy if they make the team significantly better. Lee and a mediocre shooting guard that can shoot would do that.
by hitlesswonder on Feb 18, 2010 8:17 PM CST up reply actions
If David Lee is our "big signing"
I might quit watching the NBA forever
Thrusting toward the playoffs, one game at a time.
There's a small chance that Rose ends up being transcendentally good and rises above the org
I’ll watch in case that happens.
by hitlesswonder on Feb 18, 2010 8:21 PM CST up reply actions
I'm still bitter that this "plan" lost us Tyrus and Ben Gordon and kept Reinsdick rolling in luxury tax pay outs.
And it will probably end up netting us Joe freaking Johnson or David Lee and no better than that. It really sucks.
It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147
We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.
-- yfBB
God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2010 8:21 PM CST up reply actions
Honestly, I'd be absolutely f'ing amazed if Wade came here
and there’s no chance LeBron is, so I really think JJ is the best guy we can get. Which is a sad state of affairs.
Thrusting toward the playoffs, one game at a time.
I said it at the time (tyger said it rather emphatically), retaining BG and trading Hinrich was always the better plan.
It never made sense to let the only real starting 2 guard on the team walk away for nothing and keep a PG masquerading as a 2 guard…poorly for about the same money. I’ve said it over and over, as soon as Rose was the pick, Hinrich should have been shipped for whatever we could get for him.
Rose
BG
Deng
Lee
Noah
looks a lot better than Rose, Kirk, Deng, Lee, Noah.
Even better would have been Rose, BG, Deng, Bosh, Noah.
It just never ever made any sense. I would much rather have BG at the price the Pistons are paying him than Joe Johnson for the max or anywhere near the max.
It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147
We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.
-- yfBB
God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2010 8:26 PM CST up reply actions 6 recs
You tripped over an even bigger point
If the Bulls only get one max and that max player isn’t Lebron or Wade, they screwed up by not keeping BG. I said it months ago that the Bulls may spend the next 5 years looking for a another 2 guard to fit that well with Rose.
by Dils on Feb 18, 2010 8:35 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Yep. I agree totally. The guy is a drive and kick point guard and you let one of the league's best floor spacers
leave for NO COMPENSATION? What. The. Fuck.
It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147
We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.
-- yfBB
God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2010 8:36 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
heh, every once in a while
I stop and say goddamnit I still can’t believe they did that. I truly is remarkable.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 18, 2010 11:40 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe they can trade Kirk and another contract to Detroit for BG back before Kirk's contract expires.
:P
Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!
I actually advocated keeping Hinrich, too. And extending Thomas at about $7 million.*
As in, having an owner who would like to spend money to win basketball games. Having Rose, Gordon, Hinrich, Deng, Salmons, Thomas, Gibson, Noah, Miller this year… then having Gordon, Hinrich and Deng, and somehow Thomas available for a sign-and-trade. Good team this year, better team in the future if they don’t get a sign-and-trade done. Great team if they do.
Of course, Thomas isn’t worth that right now. We’ll have to see if I would have been wise with how he does on a different team. Maybe after committing that money to him, the Org would have directed Del Negro to play him.*
**no, they wouldn’t have
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
So you actually advocated
Not having a chance to sign a max free agent…
Wow…just wow.
I understand better how you think about basketball now…
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
by Dionysus2.0 on Feb 18, 2010 10:24 PM CST up reply actions
it's defensible. we would have had a lot more assets for a trade, which is how guys end up moving
a lot of the time.
It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147
We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.
-- yfBB
God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2010 10:25 PM CST up reply actions
It is not defensible with the free agent class this Summer...
In a year when Rashard Lewis or Ben Wallace is the best free agent, then it is defensible…with at least 3 future hall of fame free agents in their prime on the market, the best position to be in is to have the opportunity to sign them…
You know who has assets this summer, Charlotte, Milwaukee, Golden State and Detroit…is anyone mentioning those as possible destinations for Lebron, Bosh, Wade, etc…No. They are mentioning their own teams, or teams with max cap space…because those teams actually have the leverage to sign the player outright…
You think Bosh could tell the Raptors “Hey, I would really like to play in Detroit, so arrange a sign and trade where you have to take back matching salaries…but don’t worry, they have assets”
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
by Dionysus2.0 on Feb 18, 2010 10:37 PM CST up reply actions
That's a fair point. This strategy is much riskier and I can't help but feeling like
the Bulls FO is too incompetent to get one of the 3 big names and also that it’s just a front for the Org. to shed salary without any fan outrage. We will suck if we land no one or overpay for Joe Johnson.
It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147
We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.
-- yfBB
God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2010 10:38 PM CST up reply actions
Greater risk = Greater Reward.
For the record…I would be pissed if this team overpays Joe Johnson…
I am of the opinion the first target is the big 3, Lebron, Bosh and Wade in that order…if that fails, then target a PF to upgrade…Amare, Lee, Scola, Boozer…Dirk if he opts out. To me, Joe Johnson is like the worst case consolation prize…
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
by Dionysus2.0 on Feb 18, 2010 10:45 PM CST up reply actions
The Lee or Scola route
would leave room for another above average player. Two above average players does not equal one max FA, but its definitely better than one overpaid aging Joe Johnson.
Bosh or Bust
by JockstrapNoah on Feb 18, 2010 10:49 PM CST up reply actions
But because JJ is an Arn Tellem guy, I would bet that it'll be JJ.
It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147
We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.
-- yfBB
God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2010 10:50 PM CST up reply actions
The Clippers
overpaying over what the Bulls would overpay is the only defense against this option.
Bosh or Bust
by JockstrapNoah on Feb 18, 2010 10:52 PM CST up reply actions
Sadly, I actually think the Clippers are smarter about signing FAs than the Bulls.
They got Baron Davis when he was good and the only reason Baron hasn’t been Baron is because he was being coached by the terrible Mike Dunleavy.
It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147
We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.
-- yfBB
God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2010 10:54 PM CST up reply actions
Baron has been an unreliable player
for his entire career. Baron doesn’t need a crappy coach to play poorly.
by Scotter on Feb 18, 2010 11:04 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
We already have a max player
On a rookie contract though, so who knows….
Sadly....through thick and thin....
I'm in line with this.
If the Bulls are made to be fools once again, for the love of God don’t pull Ron Mercer 2.0 (I’m not comparing their skill-set, but JJ is so not worth the money).
Boozer won’t get the max, neither will Lee. Take one of those as a consolation prize, sign a quality guard like Morrow, and see where Rose can develop. I don’t want to see Rose in a CP3 situatoin where he’s surrounded by terrible contracts and over the hill players in his prime.
Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 18, 2010 10:50 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Especially since they kept Hinrich.
A SG would just be stupid.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
No, they're not mentioned because they don't have assets.
Who on those teams is as good as Noah? Or DeJuan Blair?
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
I think he's saying he had advocated
getting a max FA through a sign and trade.
Bosh or Bust
by JockstrapNoah on Feb 18, 2010 10:27 PM CST up reply actions
30 teams in the league...
Have that option this Summer…I like the chances of being the 1 in 6 (or how whatever small number have max cap space) that can actually have the threat of signing the player outright…
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
by Dionysus2.0 on Feb 18, 2010 10:30 PM CST up reply actions
I like it too. There's a bigger chance for the FO to fall flat on its face.
But a much bigger chance to get the player that will lead us to the Championship.
Bosh or Bust
by JockstrapNoah on Feb 18, 2010 10:35 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec for the sig!
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
by Dionysus2.0 on Feb 18, 2010 10:38 PM CST up reply actions
I completely disagree.
All the guys are going to get max contracts. The Bulls can’t offer more money than 8 other teams. I think if you’re Chris Bosh, Amare Stoudemire, LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, etc. your FIRST option is to look for a sign-and-trade. Guaranteed money, especially with the new CBA looming, is a HUGE deal, in my opinion.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
1 in 6?
You mean 1 in 9 since they can stay with their current teams?
One of those guys will change teams via sign-and-trade.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
It doesn't matter...
The number is less than 30, and you advocated for no cap space!
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
I think being able to offer $30-$40 million more dollars in a sign-and-trade...
…makes Chicago attractive. I think Toronto would have been very open in getting Gordon, DeJuan Blair + some other stuff and a future 1st round pick for Chris Bosh.
I don’t see how you think that’s not even an option.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Really....?
You realize Dejuan Blair plays for the Spurs rignt? I am confident they would happily work a trade deal with Toronto for Bosh if they could trade their second round pick for one of the best players in the world…
Again, you are smoking something…every team in the league can offer players in sign and trade…there is no leverage in being an average team who can trade players…again, see Golden State, Milwaukee, Charlotte, etc…
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
Right. And all those teams suck.
The Bulls have young players on friendly contracts. Plus, in Gordon and Deng they would have had younger players on higher contracts to help make up the salary difference. 5 teams able to offer the max is good enough. You don’t think Bosh can say to Toronto, “I really want to go to Chicago so I can get a 6-year contract and play on a good, young team so you should try to work out a sign-and-trade, but if you don’t, I’ll just go join LeBron in NY or Dwyane in Miami.” What would Toronto want? Ben Gordon, Joakim Noah and draft picks… or nothing? Who’s smoking what?
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Those teams (except G-State) are challenging the Bulls for the final playoff spot...
So, if they suck, then the Bulls suck.
I will agree to disagree with you here…and the market can determine who is wrong. I do not think there is any chance that any of the top 5 free agents will land on a team without cap space this Summer…and I feel that positioning the Bulls to have cap space was the best move.
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
by Dionysus2.0 on Feb 19, 2010 12:21 PM CST up reply actions
And honestly, that's what I'm expecting.
Either a Joe Johnson signing with Hinrich still on the team and Taj Gibson starting, or a signing of David Lee as a gritty guy who gets it. And that’s what has bothered me about this. Great, they did the minimum required to keep the “hope” alive. When do season tickets go on sale? Before FA, right? They’re not a dumb business organization.
They did the minimum to keep the chances alive for getting a maximum free agent, but they didn’t do the maximum to make the team better. Yes, I’m getting more and more cynical about the organization every day, but I’ve yet to see a move they make that makes me think they have an ultimate championship team in mind.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
David Lee is not even the type of gritty
that’s a good defender. Lee is a good version of Taj. Lee is a much better scorer, they are both great offensive rebounders.
This is frustrating that I am even discussing David Lee
by LoveForTheGame on Feb 18, 2010 9:53 PM CST up reply actions
Lee would get ripped in Chicago for 5 yrs
because he’s not Gritty.
Bosh or Bust
by JockstrapNoah on Feb 18, 2010 9:54 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think winning a championship is a goal of the team
They exist to make money. They’ll take a championship if it happens, but they aren’t going to do risky moves to try to get one.
by hitlesswonder on Feb 18, 2010 9:55 PM CST up reply actions
Agreed.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
That's because they don't.
Yes, I’m getting more and more cynical about the organization every day, but I’ve yet to see a move they make that makes me think they have an ultimate championship team in mind.
It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147
We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.
-- yfBB
God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2010 10:28 PM CST up reply actions
I don't. He hates their fans because they don't show up to the games and I don't think the Hawks want to max him out.
It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147
We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.
-- yfBB
God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2010 8:15 PM CST up reply actions
I really don't even want Joe
by the time Rose reaches his peak potential, Joe will be declining significantly.
by LoveForTheGame on Feb 18, 2010 8:16 PM CST up reply actions
I don't want Joe Johnson at all. He'll be a huge albatross, quickly.
It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147
We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.
-- yfBB
God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2010 8:19 PM CST up reply actions
he turned down 4/$60 from the Hawks
so I doubt that happens.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 18, 2010 11:41 PM CST up reply actions
seriously
I would rather not sign anyone if we don’t get either LeBron, Wade, Bosh, or Amare.
by LoveForTheGame on Feb 18, 2010 8:20 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't think that's a good idea
You can argue that they should get multiple mediocre guys instead of single max guy like Johnson, Gay, or Lee and I could see that. But the Bulls should sign assets that might at least be able to trade in the future.
If they don’t sign anyone at all, they might as well trade everyone but Rose and play for the #1 pick next year.
by hitlesswonder on Feb 18, 2010 8:24 PM CST up reply actions
That's the nice thing about Rose though
Is we get 2 runs with Rose and we’re nipping on Rose round 1.
By the time Rose hits his max potential Wade will be on the decline…
Sadly....through thick and thin....
SG is probably the least important position on this team...
The Bulls already have a dominant guard in the backcourt in Rose…the SG for this team needs to be a solid defender, a part time ball handler and able to hit an open 3…Hinrich can capably fill that role, with a contract that declines each of the next two years…
Think about who starts next to dominant guards in this league…who starts next to Chris Paul ( I would have to look it up), Ronnie Brewer was starting next to Deron Williams, Derrick Fisher is with Kobe, Rafer F. Alston with D.Wade…
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
He can't hit open 3s at the rate we need. We need more 3 point shooting and Rose can't do it, Deng can only do it a little, so we need
a big time 3 point shooter (in volume and accuracy) to fill that void on offense for the Bulls. We had a guy like that, but the Bulls picked Hinrich over him.
It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147
We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.
-- yfBB
God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2010 9:01 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Gordon isn't the only guy like that.
He might be one of the best, but he’s not the only 3pt shooter in the league. Alongside Rose and a phantom super star, a good 3pt shooter is definitely necessary, and that guy can be found for less than 11mil.
by JockstrapNoah on Feb 18, 2010 9:05 PM CST up reply actions
Btu we aren't getting a phantom superstar. The market is flooded with teams with cash with more competent management
or better locations or both that are going to be competing for the three real superstars available.
It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147
We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.
-- yfBB
God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2010 9:12 PM CST up reply actions
I think we're getting Bosh. I hope so at least.
by JockstrapNoah on Feb 18, 2010 9:16 PM CST up reply actions
I hope so too, but I really, really, REALLY doubt it.
It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147
We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.
-- yfBB
God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2010 9:18 PM CST up reply actions
The other point is that we could still have the phantom superstar, Rose, Deng, Noah and Gordon! If they'd only been willing
to ship Hinrich out.
It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147
We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.
-- yfBB
God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2010 9:19 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Not only that...
But three point shooting is only aspect of what is needed next to a lead guard…paying a player $11M to fill that role is even more egregious than paying a player $8.5M fill multiple roles with fewer deficiencies…
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
Kirk has fewer deficiencies than Gordon? That's news to me.
It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147
We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.
-- yfBB
God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2010 9:30 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Kurt is definitely a more complete player than BG.
You seem to have forgotton all of the 3-13 nights BG had. Let’s see, after signing his big contract he has a whopping 15.2 ppg on 42% shooting and this is playing against second units. Can you guys please stop complaining about how good BG was? He was a good three point shooter and that’s about it. You don’t pay a three point specialist $11mil/yr.
BG's been hurt all year
Suffering a bad year that started off remakrably well before that injury.
If it continues into next year, sure your point is valid, but seeing as BG never really dealt with a legitimate injury in his first 6 years, I think 1 injury plagued year is enough for a mini pass on judging his stats right now.
Up through mid Dec he was tearing it up in the mid to high 20’s PER, then had the ankle injury that’s cost him games as he’s trying to come back early…..
Sadly....through thick and thin....
Marcus Thornton
plays next to Paul.
What we need is Anthony Morrow. (and Bosh)
"I want people to fear me"- Derrick Rose.
Hinrich does become more tradeable
as his contract shortens. Unless he goes in the tank again.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 18, 2010 11:38 PM CST up reply actions
I'd rather have the cap space instead of hoping he gets good enough sitting behind Rose and Joe Johnson...
…to be traded for a younger, better, same-priced PF.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
A round of applause for this line:
We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.
The best thing you’ve ever written. I’m still laughing. Great post all-around.
Thrusting toward the playoffs, one game at a time.
Agreed. Man, the longer he stays the more I hate Kirk.
It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147
We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.
-- yfBB
God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2010 8:05 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Don't hate the player, hate the org
It’s like Taj. I’m happy for Taj. Seems like a nice guy. I hate that the Bulls think he’s starting caliber PF.
by hitlesswonder on Feb 18, 2010 8:07 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
That's how I used to feel about Kirk, but now I hate his stupid face. It's been too long. I'm sure I'll get there with Taj too
if the Org keeps insisting that he’s a starting level player.
It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147
We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.
-- yfBB
God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2010 8:09 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Be patience....His contract is an albatross
I seriously doubt he will retire as a Bull under that contract. He’ll go down sooner or later.
I also hate Kirk because he's making nearly $10 million this year.
I couldn’t give two shits if I’m making fun of him on the internet. I doubt he cares.
Thrusting toward the playoffs, one game at a time.
by Illini15 on Feb 18, 2010 8:15 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Yeah, like yfBB said before
(in similar words), it’s like he’s built from fucking Teflon. Seriously, this guy probably makes love to Gar Paxdorf’s wives on a nightly basis they worship him so much.
Thrusting toward the playoffs, one game at a time.
by Illini15 on Feb 18, 2010 8:14 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
it's not even that they don't trade him
why the constant hype? He’s good, and valuable, and a decent fit. But sheesh.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 18, 2010 11:42 PM CST up reply actions
I mentioned this somewhere else
But I wished the Bulls just kept Salmons and Tyrus for this season and traded Hinrich for expirings. We would have been just as go this season (first round exit) and have more cap space for next summer. Plus, Salmons would have most likely opted out of his contract anyways.
by LoveForTheGame on Feb 18, 2010 8:07 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I would have just rather seen them really go for it and deal both Hinrich and Salmons for expirings and hang on to Tyrus
and then renounce Tyrus in the off-season.
It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147
We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.
-- yfBB
God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2010 8:08 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
but the caphold
it’s tricky you see? they had to get rid of the possible caphold
We just need to execute better - Lovie Del Negro
No. Just no. They could renounce him right away.
It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147
We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.
-- yfBB
God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2010 8:09 PM CST up reply actions
I know, but still. It confuses the dumb folks, so I had to clarify.
It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147
We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.
-- yfBB
God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2010 8:10 PM CST up reply actions
yeah it's really upsetting
i almost wish that they didn’t say anything about glue or thrust and kept the fans in the dark on whether or not they wanted to move hinrich. just leaves a terrible taste in the mouth
We just need to execute better - Lovie Del Negro
Not me
I just look at the Marlo Stanfield picture
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
I always thought that was 15's actual photo.
Oh well, either/or.
by NittanyCub on Feb 18, 2010 11:19 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
earlier today i thought i was posting while sitting in class
…even though i wasn’t. i was just reading
Thrusting toward the playoffs, one game at a time.
ha sorry about that
i posted fairly infrequently on here for the past year, i’ve confused myself a few times today too
We just need to execute better - Lovie Del Negro
No reason to be sorry
it’s just funny when you think someone is posting using your username while you’re posting from it simultaneously. INTERNET ROBBERY!!!!!!!!11111111
I-L-L pride
Thrusting toward the playoffs, one game at a time.
It's they could have and would have renounced him
But they did at least a year 3198 first round choice for him. And VDN wasn’t going play him anyway. Especially with Hakim around. They entire organization deserves to be pilloried for putting themselves in this situation with Tyrus. But given who they are, we should be happy they got some value for a guy that wasn’t going make a big impact down the stretch anyway (due to minutes) and then would walk for nothing (due to stupidity).
by hitlesswonder on Feb 18, 2010 8:12 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
i agree 100%
i think matt said it, brad miller’s caphold isn’t presenting any obstacles, all you have to do is renounce the guy. clearly bs
We just need to execute better - Lovie Del Negro
me :-)
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
yeah, I stole that line from Tyger
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 18, 2010 11:43 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah....just renounce the guy...
And let him walk away for nothing…
It seems there was some anger earlier in this thread about letting players leave for nothing…in 2012 or 2013, we will appreciate this pick…or at the very least, it gives the Bulls another piece to use in a sign and trade.
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
That's pretty much what I was saying
Given the situation, I’m glad they got a pick for him. Keeping him for the remainder of VDN’s tenure wasn’t a good idea.
by hitlesswonder on Feb 18, 2010 9:21 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah...
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
There's no point in keeping Tyrus if VDN is the coach
by hitlesswonder on Feb 18, 2010 8:09 PM CST up reply actions
That's a tricky one.....will VDN even be the coach next year?
If you think not, then does it really matter what he thinks?
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
It just matters for this year.
Tyrus was gone after this season no matter what — they need to clear his salary to be able to make a max offer. So hanging on to him means 30 odd more games with him and VDN would still be the coach for those and not play him.
by hitlesswonder on Feb 18, 2010 8:14 PM CST up reply actions
right, I don't think Vinny was going to play him with Warrick here
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 18, 2010 11:44 PM CST up reply actions
and even in my fit of anger, i guess that's what keeps me from going completely off the deep end.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
im not going to lie, i think there is a vey real chance that Del Negro is still the head coach next year
Not that i’m trying to start the Vinny Love Bandwagon, but im thinking like the Org.
The Bulls are going to make the playoffs. Rose is simply too good for them to drop down past the likes of the Bucks and Bobcats. The Bulls will most likely finish this season with a record of .500 or better. If that happens, Vinny’s record is .500 or better after 2 years, with 2 playoff berths.
So now, does the Org fire him (what reason would they give the media? you know they’d think of something to try to explain themselves) like they’ve been seemingly planning too, then pay him AND a new coach AND a max free agent AND any other free agents or re-signings AND the current team and coaching staff? Or do they save just a little bit of cash by letting Vinny finish his contract here.
Slightly off topic, but who is out there? I wouldnt mind Collins but he’s made it clear that he doesn’t want to coach anymore. I would honestly much rather have Del Negro than Avery Johnson or Lawrence Frank. I wouldn’t mind giving Scottie Pippen or Chris Webber a shot, but I highly doubt another rookie coach is what we need if we really are going for it. Best option would most likley be Bernie Bickerstaff or Pete Myers…and they arent exactly Jerry Sloan and Phil Jackson.
Again, not saying I’m pulling for the return of Del Negro, but to be honest, I think it’s not all that unlikely.
Why aren't they selling Rose's all star jersey?
I guess, but they still needed to trade Hinrich.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
by tyger1147 on Feb 18, 2010 10:00 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I was a little bummed at first about not trading Kirk but I'm starting to think different. (I still hate him)
I mean if you’re a free agent and you’re looking at teams to run with that has future/money only a few teams come to mind.
1. Bulls. They have the a team thats playoff bound with a decent future, Rose, Noah, Deng, Taj, Kirk is what they’re selling. They’re young. They have the city.. Chicago is an awesome city and even better in the summer. They have History. It’s the Chicago Bulls.
2. Clippers. It’s freaking LA have you seen the tail out there? Kidding. Another young team with some nice parts. Griffin,Kaman,Gordon,Davis. Thats an interesting landing spot.
3. Miami Wade/ beach. Nothing else.
4. NYC/NJ Tie Unless NJ lands Wall I don’t see the attraction. The Knicks don’t have players to build around a MAX player and they’re the Knicks.
If Kirk Hinrich is still around next season as the starting 2 guard of the Chicago Bulls I’m going to be very worried.
Beasley spent the first two quarters like he was wandering through a forest.-Neil Funk
I thought you were driving your car into a Lake if Hinrich was not traded...
Do you need directions?
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
by Dionysus2.0 on Feb 18, 2010 9:03 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
alright, D2.0, you get a rec for that one.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 18, 2010 11:46 PM CST up reply actions
interesting
use the software. Actions→ Rec/Flag………
…umm u forgot to actually rec him…u know…use the software?
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Feb 18, 2010 11:58 PM CST up reply actions
flagged
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 19, 2010 9:34 AM CST up reply actions
It was my GF's car btw.
Beasley spent the first two quarters like he was wandering through a forest.-Neil Funk
souleater you are probably the weirdest person on this blog
and that is saying something
by LoveForTheGame on Feb 18, 2010 11:51 PM CST up reply actions
If NY gets two free agents then Miami strikes out.
If Miami gets two free agents then NY strikes out completely. There is no reason to sign in either of those cities if the FA will be the only super star. DWade is experiencing it. LeBron has experienced the tedious process of building a contender around a super star. All three FAs need to be on INSTANT contenders, Celts Style. NY or Miami with only one super star is not an instant contender.
Boozer and Joe Johnson
I think is a realistic goal and the team does well. 4 year deals. Around 10 million each.
by The90sBullsRevival on Feb 18, 2010 8:33 PM CST reply actions
We could not afford it
Plus Joe Johnson will probably end up getting the max.
by LoveForTheGame on Feb 18, 2010 8:34 PM CST up reply actions
with so many teams having max space
it just seems like any guy in the second tier (amare, boozer, jj, lee) will get a max contract
We just need to execute better - Lovie Del Negro
Ha! Joe Johnson already turned down 4 years 60 million from the Hawks.
It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147
We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.
-- yfBB
God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2010 8:35 PM CST up reply actions
Also those guys are getting up there in age
By the time Rose develops fully then Boozer and Johnson will honestly be ready (or close) to retire.
by LoveForTheGame on Feb 18, 2010 8:35 PM CST up reply actions
Well,
yeah, it probably won’t happen. But I could see a scenario playing out where those guys, more likely Boozer, has to settle for less money. Bosh and Lee will be the sought after power forwads first. The Clippers have Blake Griffin so they don’t need him. I don’t think Boozer’s game works well with Lopez in Jersey. Unless he signs with Miami I can see him as a Bull.
With the Hawks being able to offer JJ a lot more, yeah that might be a pipe dream
by The90sBullsRevival on Feb 18, 2010 8:41 PM CST up reply actions
I just want to announce that this blog is sponsored by T-Mobile
for yfbb’s sake
by LoveForTheGame on Feb 18, 2010 8:39 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
I must say
it’s hilarious that the Org. has caused us to become so tainted that we already hate Joe Johnson for what he stands for in the future. He’s not even on our team.
Thrusting toward the playoffs, one game at a time.
by Illini15 on Feb 18, 2010 8:40 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
It's destiny. We know our Org. They are oh so predictable.
It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147
We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.
-- yfBB
God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2010 8:48 PM CST up reply actions
Can we call Joe Alexander Vanilla Sky?
"You know what Neil, stop being such a sourpuss." - Stacey King
The battle of the draft busts
Who’s going to be the back of small forward for the remainder of the season? James Johnson or Joe Alexander.
I’m honestly fine going with a three guard lineup of Rose, Hinrich, and Hunter to give Deng rest. Vinny is good at those three guard lineups.
by LoveForTheGame on Feb 18, 2010 8:45 PM CST up reply actions
Mixed feelings
I have mixed feelings similar to some of the above posts. I wish we had an opportunity to see if Tyrus would develop. However, come July 1st I will be happy we made these trades. The critical question is will I be happy on July 15.
Doubtful. This whole mess started unraveling the day they let BG go for nothing and refused to part with the Teflon Don.
We’re going to end up overpaying for a Boozer or JJ type and be locked into years of mediocrity during the beginning of Rose’s prime.
It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147
We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.
-- yfBB
God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2010 8:56 PM CST up reply actions
The two T's
Obviously it remains to be seen what will transpire over the summer, but the continued overrating of TT by some, and (especially) underrating of Taj by others has become truly tedious.
It’s remarkable that many of you wanted to give a player with a poor attitude and terrible b-ball IQ more time to develop after three and a half years and several coaches. Yes, there is a chance that under the right coach, and in the right system he will develop further. But don’t you understand that making personnel decisions is always about playing percentages? And that the percentages are obviously against TT ever fulfilling his full potential?
Even more ridiculous, though, is the constant underrating of Taj. Comments like “he’s no starter” pop up consistently, and reveal a breathtaking level of ignorance. There isn’t an executive on any NBA team who wouldn’t love to have Taj. He is precisely the sort of player who will always make Teams (with a capital T) better, just as he has obviously done for the Bulls. He is the antithesis of a player like TT: smart, dedicated, selfless, and eager to learn. Those are qualities that don’t show up in your holy PERs, and yet they make the difference between consistent contributors to over-achieving teams, and anchors on under-achieving teams.
Taj is already a better player than Thomas, and that is unlikely to ever change.
No one is arguing that he will become a perennial all-star, but the notion that he is somehow unworthy of starting on a decent NBA team is ludicrous. And he’s a friggin’ rookie who has only played half of season! Obviously he will improve further, as he has already this year.
by badnewsintennisshoes on Feb 18, 2010 9:12 PM CST reply actions 11 recs
He's not worthy of starting on a championship level team. Tyrus wasn't either, but Tyrus was better than Taj. Your inability to recognize that
and reliance on intangible stuff makes your analysis of the situation laughable.
It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147
We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.
-- yfBB
God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2010 9:15 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Anyone can digest raw statistics
but what separates sophisticated observers is their ability to take what you call “intangibles” into account. Good luck building a championship team by shuffling paper and parsing out statistics.
by badnewsintennisshoes on Feb 18, 2010 9:28 PM CST up reply actions 11 recs
Intangibles are just things that people who have nothing else to stand on throw out to make their points. Intangibles don't exist.
It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147
We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.
-- yfBB
God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2010 9:29 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
you still don't get it
what you dismissively call “intangibles” are very real, often spefically identifiable things. There may not be statistical categories feeding them to you on a silver platter, but that’s why it requires a bit of effort to identify them.
by badnewsintennisshoes on Feb 18, 2010 9:35 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
specifically identifiable things are not intangibles. they are tangible. i can see them. even watching the games
tyrus was better than taj most of the time.
It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147
We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.
-- yfBB
God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2010 9:38 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Well...
luckily you weren’t a part of the Bulls front office, as they obviously saw things differently.
by badnewsintennisshoes on Feb 18, 2010 9:42 PM CST up reply actions
The Bulls front office
signed both Aaron Gray and Jannero Pargo. That should be all the indictment necessary. They are poor judges of talent. Great judges of character though.
Bosh or Bust
by JockstrapNoah on Feb 18, 2010 9:46 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
This guy is a "sophisticated observer"
don’t mess with him. He is not one of us.
by LoveForTheGame on Feb 18, 2010 9:47 PM CST up reply actions
The irony, of course, is that...
it takes no real sophistication whatsoever to see that Taj is a very good, and very valuable player.
by badnewsintennisshoes on Feb 18, 2010 10:20 PM CST up reply actions
hahahaha at Taj as "very good"
he’s slightly above average on his best nights.
It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147
We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.
-- yfBB
God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2010 10:21 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
LOL WUT
You’re losing this argument heavily.
It takes a very average fan to notice that Taj Gibson isn’t contributing much. Just because he “hustles” and shows “grit” doesn’t mean he’s good.
by NittanyCub on Feb 18, 2010 10:42 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Taj does what he needs to do to help the Bulls win...
your bias for TT who was a big disappointment is clouding your view. If TT was consistent and wasnt a potty mouth he’d kept his starting job and we wouldnt be dealing with the fallout.
by Playboy_BullV on Feb 18, 2010 10:50 PM CST up reply actions
Ok, there's nuance to this.
Taj is a decent player, I think all can agree on this. He defends reasonably well, is alright at hitting the 12 foot jumper, and isn’t going to attempt anything outside his skill-set.
All of this makes him a pretty good rotation player, and a solid backup PF. In comparison to Tyrus, he’s lacking, but Tyrus is gone and it’s pointless to hash the debate out a billion times.
Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 18, 2010 10:53 PM CST up reply actions
That's not the point of the argument.
I didn’t compare Thomas to Gibson, at least not in this post. Gibson is a good, 2nd-round pick who should be the 6th-7th man off the bench.
but he was first round pick...why are you downgrading him to round 2?
by Playboy_BullV on Feb 18, 2010 11:07 PM CST up reply actions
In comparison
To the raw talents of Tyrus he’s lacking. Tyrus hast he ability to play the occasional superstar game, but the other 4-8 games he’s below Taj (or well half of those games he’s way below Taj, others it’s a push).
Sadly....through thick and thin....
Taj's value
Stems from the fact that he’s due $1M for the level of play he’s playing and that he can bang and bruise up some of the good PF’s in the league already in his first season. Granted consistency and lack of fouling are issues, but for a rookie to be as good as he is defensively already is nice.
I’m not gonna Sam Smith all over Taj, but let’s give some credit where it’s due.
I mean if we get Bosh as our option, we have his backup and a guy who can give us a solid 25 MPG….and let Bosh swap some time at the backup C for his 35 MPG…
We also have the same option at SG/PG with Kirk….
We’ve done a decent job keeping our options open.
Sadly....through thick and thin....
Taj got voted to the Rookie Challenge by the assistant coaches of the non-Bulls nba teams
does that mean every non-bulls assistant coach doesnt know how to judge talent?
Why aren't they selling Rose's all star jersey?
Right, a butterfly in the Berto might fart and make Rose sick that day.
We can’t measure it, and it’s insignificant. INTANGIBLE!
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
hahaha
rec’d.. I didn’t know there were any “sophisticated observers” on blog a bull. I’ll try to clean myself up. (oh, and I’m laughing at you)
by Basketball Smurf on Feb 18, 2010 9:31 PM CST up reply actions
this guy...
is like the smartest man alive
by LoveForTheGame on Feb 18, 2010 9:41 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I thought you were being sarcastic
and that’s why you were getting rec’d.
But now I see that you’re the OP … wow.
by drew gooden's facial growth on Feb 18, 2010 10:58 PM CST up reply actions
Taj isn't some 20 year old rookie bound to improve, he's like a 28 year old overachiever on a crappy team.
"You know what Neil, stop being such a sourpuss." - Stacey King
by Scribbz on Feb 18, 2010 9:33 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
just so we're clear here...
You believe that he has not improved from the beginning of this season until now?
And if you believe that he has improved, then you believe that he has plateaued?
by badnewsintennisshoes on Feb 18, 2010 9:38 PM CST up reply actions
The problem with Taj is his ceiling is about as tall as him.
He’s already 24 years old, extremely old for a rookie. Tyrus is younger and was already a better player than him. The old man is a nice little player, but Tyrus was a legitimate game changer with his defensive ability.
"You know what Neil, stop being such a sourpuss." - Stacey King
Hasn't he actually gotten worse?
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Maybe Taj is like Benjamin Button and he'll reverse in time, creating the ultra power forward.
"You know what Neil, stop being such a sourpuss." - Stacey King
crappy team. oh.
The Nets and Knicks are crappy teams. The Bulls are average.
Why aren't they selling Rose's all star jersey?
I understand why you show such undying love for an average (at best) player, being his dad and all.
I’m also in 100% agreement with your comment about some fans “revealing a breathtaking level of ignorance.” I assume as you wrote this you were staring into a full length mirror, contemplating your own reflection.
And because this is America, the land of free speech, I respect your right to demonstrate it in spades, but I suggest one final reading of my post “why Vinny is (was) a Ninny for starting Taj over Tyrus” with an open mind so you can fully understand where many of us are coming from. All we want are the facts, just the facts.
Again, I hope he sends you a nice Father’s Day gift now that he’s in the NBA and can afford it.
I think the best present he could offer would be free visits to a shrink, so you can get some help for those delusional thoughts racing through your head at this time that are obviously preventing you from seeing things as they really are.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Feb 18, 2010 10:47 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Hilarious reaction...
I honestly would have loved to see your face when Tyrus got traded. I am so grateful that as each day passes…Tyrus fanboys will slowly start to dissipate and stop obsessing over every comment that might suggest that Tyrus isn’t god’s gift to the power forward position.
Dave P
www.dabullseye.com
Da Bulls' Eye Forum Now Open
by Da Bulls' Eye on Feb 19, 2010 12:49 AM CST up reply actions
nobody said TT was God's gift to the power forward position except
when you compare him to Taj. If they were the only 2 PF’s on earth, than I would have to agree that Tyrus would have qualified as God’s gift with Taj being the only alternative.
But thank God, neither are, especially now because that forces the Bulls to have no choice but to sign a top flight PF in 2010 or Gar PaxDorf will be run out of town, as he should.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Feb 19, 2010 2:18 AM CST up reply actions
He is the antithesis of a player like TT: smart, dedicated, selfless, and eager to learn. Those are qualities that don’t show up in your holy PERs, and yet they make the difference between consistent contributors to over-achieving teams, and anchors on under-achieving teams.
Those are all input values which are supposed to lead to output, or performance, values. Gibson might be the most hard-working basketball player in the league, but that doesn’t show up in the actual game. John Q. Taxpayer might work his ass off, coming up with schematics and algorithms on how to approach a scientific study; but if he doesn’t come up with quantifiable results, he’s fired.
Intangibles do exist, and they are real, but they result in such a minute amount to what is important in basketball that it’s almost irrelevant. Luol Deng might have had a rude argument with a cashier clerk about 2$ change, which he might thinking about while taking a FG; however, this will not be incremental in making a field goal. Getting square with the hoop with your knees, having your nondominant hand on the side of the basketball, and following through will always be more important than intangibles, or in this case, Deng’s conversation with the rude cashier clerk.
OR, in other words,Thomas’s 16.7 PER, 96 Drtg, 52.3 eFG% and 48.3 eFG% in comparison to Gibson’s inferior numbers will always, always, always be more superior to whatever Gibson does that is deemed “intangible.”
How your post was recommended 4 times speaks volumes about the individuals here who don’t understand simple statistic values of effectiveness; and of input, output distinctions.
by NittanyCub on Feb 18, 2010 10:59 PM CST up reply actions 7 recs
boom roasted
i thought they were irony recs
Doesn’t seem very moral to me. Might as well take Satan’s autograph while you’re at it. - N.C.
Now we're getting somewhere...
At least you’ve attempted to make a case, which is much more than I can say for most who have responded to my post.
The problem, though, is that you, like many, rely rather uncritically on statistics, and typically cherry-pick. So, in this case, let’s look at some examples.
You characterize TT as having superior numbers to Taj in various categories, yet you spin the stats to make your case, rather than representing them honestly:
You claim that TT’s Drtg of 96 is superior to Taj’s number, while failing to note that TT’s numbers the previous two seasons were inferior to Taj’s. Furthermore, given that Taj has been starting this season, he has obviously been guarding better players on balance than TT. And yet you are quite happy to swallow the bare statistic at face value.
With regards to the aFG% you play the exact same game. TT’s numbers in the two previous seasons are vastly inferior to Taj’s. And again, who is facing tougher players on balance this year?
The fact that you can’t even make a compelling case based on the numbers which you revere is deeply revealing.
by badnewsintennisshoes on Feb 18, 2010 11:22 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
TT was starting, lost the starting job because he broke his arm, and never got a chance to get it back.
Anyways, I don’t understand what you’re talking about in regards to ‘the stats you revere’. My eyes tell me TT is a better basketball player than Taj, because he is better at defense and rebounding. He is sometimes out of position, but when he isn’t he changes the game in ways that Taj, simply, can’t.
Here’s a fanpost: http://www.blogabull.com/2010/2/14/1310616/in-defense-of-tyrus-a-final-cry
Here’re TT’s overall stats: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/thomaty01.html
Here’re Gibson’s overall stats: http://www.82games.com/0910/09CHI8.HTM
Note that Gibson’s PER is lower than his counterparts, the team gives up more points than it scores when he is in the game, and so on.
TT has never been an offensive juggernaut: he’s been a mostly defensive player, and while his offense has looked good over the past little while it wasn’t so great last year+the year before. Maybe he’s getting it, who knows?
It’s actually kind of hard for me to see something Taj is better than TT at … except if you want to compare last year + the year before last year on FG%. Taj is a good backup PF, but he isn’t a starter, and he isn’t better than TT.
Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!
It doesn't matter why TT lost the starting job...
the point is that a starting player is obviously going to be facing better players than a substitute. So Taj’s stats this season have been earned against tougher players than TT’s, and that is meaningful perspective.
Your view of the two based on your observations are very different than mine, as I see Taj as being a better defender. He switches more fluidly and intelligently (no stats for that), and while he doesn’t block quite as many shots, he also doesn’t hand out free points with regular goaltends.
In terms of rebounding, Taj is a far superior offensive rebounder than TT has ever been. Easy to notice, or you can look it up.
Thanks for your refreshingly reasonable tone, by the way.
by badnewsintennisshoes on Feb 18, 2010 11:42 PM CST up reply actions
Your argument fails to hold water once again because my fanpost also compared how each performed
with the starters (but of course, Tyrus’s sample was smaller due to injury and Rockheaded management decisions). Check it out and you’ll discover Tyrus did better than Taj when playing with Rose, Kirk, Noah and Deng. As I’m sure you’re aware, that is the starting unit for the Bulls.
Taj offense 1.04 defense 1.04 winning % 44.8%
TT offense 1.01 defense 0.95 winning % 63.6%
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Feb 19, 2010 2:34 AM CST up reply actions
Inconsequential data
USE YOUR EYES
Taj is more effective than Tyrus
"What are you doing Dragic?!"
hahahahah
Do you use your eyes to look at the score? Or fouls? Inconsequential stats!!!
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
A lot of people argue against Tyrus because they're retarded.
It makes being reasonable a … chore. Sorry for the others. I am like that too, usually.
It’s true, Taj is a better offensive rebounder than Tyrus. That’s his one skill, how could I forget that? Caught up in the trade season, I guess.
TT isn’t subbed in against scrubs all the time. There really isn’t much of a rhyme or reason to the adjustments I could see. I would be hesitant to say that TT has been playing against second units all day long. [But, w/e, I basically stopped watching the Bulls around late November of this year. I’ve seen like … 6 games since.]
TT goaltends, but those goaltends aren’t just free points. I buy into the idea that opponents tend to alter shots when TT is around because they know he’s gonna hit them in the face with the ball if they don’t. If you don’t, and can’t live with the goaltends, I could understand it being annoying.
TT also gets steals, which turn into transition points and are basically free points. Steals are pretty awesome. And he doesn’t gamble to get them – he just has great hands and instincts in that area of the game.
Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!
by Prevenge on Feb 19, 2010 4:37 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
[BTW, I didn't really want to respond, as it seemed pretty open-shut-etc., and I should be sleeping]
but I knew you’ll probably respond to TMC [bahahaha acronyms], so I figured I’d say something as well. :P
Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!
Given this...
“A lot of people argue against Tyrus because they’re retarded.”
There is no reason to read any further.
by badnewsintennisshoes on Feb 19, 2010 7:55 AM CST up reply actions
In High School maybe
I buy into the idea that opponents tend to alter shots when TT is around because they know he’s gonna hit them in the face with the ball if they don’t. If you don’t,
In the NBA, goaltending is free points…nothing more, and Tyrus was shitty at giving away free points…I wonder if one of the stat geeks around here can provide a stat that says Tyrus goaltends 1.2 per game of whatever number of free points he gave away on a nightly basis
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
hahahahahaha
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
His offense has looked good?
ha ha ha ha
Dave P
www.dabullseye.com
Da Bulls' Eye Forum Now Open
by Da Bulls' Eye on Feb 19, 2010 12:52 AM CST up reply actions
Now you're building a strawman argument
You completely exiled the first 2 paragraphs that represented my basis argument, and concentrated on my example. Fair enough, though, since it’s sound.
You characterize TT as having superior numbers to Taj in various categories, yet you spin the stats to make your case, rather than representing them honestly:
I made a comparison of the same year between people who play the same position on the same team. Taj Gibson is a 24 year-old rookie; Tyrus Thomas is a 23 year-old 4-year player. Would you rather me compare when Thomas was 20 years old and when Gibson was 24? Who’s really “spinning stats” right now?
Nonetheless, Taj’s rook year compared to Thomas’s rook year:
A 14.8 PER, .52.1 TS%, 47.5 eFG%, 15.9 TRB%, 6.2 BLK%
B 12.9 PER, .49.9TS%, 47.5 eFG%, 14.7 TRB%, 3.6 BLK%
Player A is Gibson, and Player A is Thoma- oh no wait, Player A is Thomas at 20, and Player B is Gibson at 24, both rookies. How else can I cherry pick stats? I guess you can come up with the rebuttal that, at both their rook years, Gibson has a 0.3 Win Share advantage over Thomas… but that’s only because he has 349 minutes more than Thomas, and especially considering that Win Shares is basically value over time.
You claim that TT’s Drtg of 96 is superior to Taj’s number, while failing to note that TT’s numbers the previous two seasons were inferior to Taj’s. Furthermore, given that Taj has been starting this season, he has obviously been guarding better players on balance than TT. And yet you are quite happy to swallow the bare statistic at face value.
This is amazing, pure amazement am I. To what statistic are you referring? The one where Thomas is 93 Drtg his rook year in comparison to Gibson’s 102? Or do you only want to compare the past 2 years? Once again, who’s really cherry picking? Even Thomas, in his second year, is at 99 Drtg (LOWER THAN GIBSONS). And who says that Gibson has been guarding ebtter players on balance? Oh, you; without your bias and without quantifiable numbers.
With regards to the aFG% you play the exact same game. TT’s numbers in the two previous seasons are vastly inferior to Taj’s. And again, who is facing tougher players on balance this year?
I can really go on, but my post is getting long. Thomas > Gibson
The fact that you can’t even make a compelling case based on the numbers which you revere is deeply revealing.
Actually, I have. In much more ways that you chose based on subjective opinions and storytelling. I can tell you that my dad walked to school barefoot, uphill both to and fro, but would anyone believe me without objective facts? They shouldn’t.
I didn’t like Thomas on this team. I don’t think he was good with this team, and he wouldn’t have been good for this team in the future. But trying to even come up with a case for Gibson over Thomas is pure ludicrous. Saying that he’s supposed to start on a championship-bound NBA team only shows how backwards your argument is.
I base my opinions on quantifiable data. You base your opinions on one sentence of my reply-back when there were much longer two paragraphs preceding it. And you have the gall to say that I’m cherrypicking?
by NittanyCub on Feb 18, 2010 11:40 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
First of all...
Your first two paragraphs were classic straw men. No one is arguing that hard work or good technique are all that it takes to be an effective player. But those, and other so-called intangibles, are often important components in the evaluation of players.
“To what statistic are you referring? The one where Thomas is 93 Drtg his rook year in comparison to Gibson’s 102? Or do you only want to compare the past 2 years? Once again, who’s really cherry picking? Even Thomas, in his second year, is at 99 Drtg”
I don’t know where you are getting your stats, but I see TT’s Drtg during the previous two years are 104 and 101. I misspoke when I said “inferior”, and should have said roughly comparable. You were the one who claimed that his numbers were superior to Taj’s, and I’ve pointed out that they actually aren’t when put into context.
The obvious way to fairly compare the two is to include TT’s stats from when he was starting and playing against first line players, rather than relying on this season alone. I’ve explained why that is the case, and there is no reason to believe that TT’s numbers this season are more of an accurate reflection of his ability than the two previous seasons.
Interpreting statistics well is a critical part of evaluating talent, and most fans don’t delve beneath the surface. And yes, you were cherry-picking.
by badnewsintennisshoes on Feb 18, 2010 11:59 PM CST up reply actions
interpreting statistics also requires accounting for sample size
tyrus’ 2 full seasons are being used against taj’s half season, not sure that’s a fair comparison.
Doesn’t seem very moral to me. Might as well take Satan’s autograph while you’re at it. - N.C.
correct...
and Taj has been fighting an injury of late, which isn yet another factor that requires interpretation.
My point is that many fans over-rely on bare statistics, and that is always dangerous.
by badnewsintennisshoes on Feb 19, 2010 12:11 AM CST up reply actions
yeah
i think the original post was a very well-thought out analysis of the two players, there isn’t much data to compare the two players and i’ll leave it at that
Doesn’t seem very moral to me. Might as well take Satan’s autograph while you’re at it. - N.C.
Your first two paragraphs were classic straw men. No one is arguing that hard work or good technique are all that it takes to be an effective player. But those, and other so-called intangibles, are often important components in the evaluation of players.
Yes, you are. You’re claiming that attributes like these are “intangibles,” like
smart, dedicated, selfless, and eager to learn
How do you know this isn’t Thomas? If Gibson is all of these, why does he suck so much ass?
I don’t know where you are getting your stats, but I see TT’s Drtg during the previous two years are 104 and 101. I misspoke when I said "inferior", and should have said roughly comparable. You were the one who claimed that his numbers were superior to Taj’s, and I’ve pointed out that they actually aren’t when put into context.
Here. They seemed to have compiled it differently, but the point still remains that Gibson isn’t as good of a basketball player as Thomas. That’s been my main point. Gibson can have all the magical intangibles in the world — it still won’t make him a better player than Thomas, at least not when comparing the production of the two so far.
The obvious way to fairly compare the two is to include TT’s stats from when he was starting and playing against first line players, rather than relying on this season alone. I’ve explained why that is the case, and there is no reason to believe that TT’s numbers this season are more of an accurate reflection of his ability than the two previous seasons.
So, you’re going to take 41 games, half a season, of Gibson and try to make a legitimate case against 95 games from Thomas’s? That is highly variable. This actually might be a case for you — Gibson’s sample size is too low to know his true value. He might be better — or worse. There is no reason to believe that TT’s numbers this season are more of an accurate reflection of his ability — just the same that there is no reason that Gibson’s numbers thsi season are more of an accurate reflection of his ability. You can’t hold bias on one subject and not do the same to another. This leads to (dum dum dum) bias. As well, taking his statistically worst season and trying to put that in your argument is major bias. Why don’t you just choose his first 3 seasons rather than his first 2? Yet again, who’s cherry picking/holding bias?
Interpreting statistics well is a critical part of evaluating talent, and most fans don’t delve beneath the surface. And yes, you were cherry-picking.
The great thing about my points is that people can see where I’m wrong. You can see where I made an incorrect comparison to stats. I can’t see where you’re wrong because you’re opinions are based on non-evidence based thinking. Yet again, you say I cherry-pick, but where? Who’s really cherry-picking?
Honestly I now see why Nocioni/Hinrich/Gibson are getting so much credit in Chicago
It’s apparent through the recommendations. For some reason, people like you love the underdog, blue-collar worker who scrapes by the league. I don’t give a shit about that, I care most about players who can perform and win games.
Yeah...Tyrus is a big time performer
Dave P
www.dabullseye.com
Da Bulls' Eye Forum Now Open
by Da Bulls' Eye on Feb 19, 2010 12:55 AM CST up reply actions
He's really taken advantage of all his opportunities in his 4 seasons with the Bulls
Dave P
www.dabullseye.com
Da Bulls' Eye Forum Now Open
by Da Bulls' Eye on Feb 19, 2010 12:56 AM CST up reply actions
Well, when he did, he got benched,
so eh?
Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!
Ask the Boston Celtics about Game 1 overtime last year.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
You're beginning to flail around...
“How do you know this isn’t Thomas?”
If you can’t see how those adjectives apply to Gibson and not Thomas, then you’re probably the only one following the Bulls who can’t. It’s painfully obvious.
“If Gibson is all of these, why does he suck so much ass?”
Reeks of desperation
“…but the point still remains that Gibson isn’t as good of a basketball player as Thomas”
Never mind interpreting statistics well, he’s better because you say so. Compelling.
“Gibson’s sample size is too low to know his true value…”
Excellent point! And it completely undermines your whole statistic-based analysis and opinion.
“…you say I cherry-pick, but where?”
No serious analyst of these type of statistics would look at Thomas’ limited numbers from this season alone and claim that they are the most accurate reflection of his “true” abilities (just as they wouldn’t have looked at Salmons’ limited stats last year as a Bull and arrived at such a conclusion). That you choose to do so reveals your limitations and bias.
by badnewsintennisshoes on Feb 19, 2010 7:26 AM CST up reply actions
I'm not flailing around
it’s still back to your original idea that intangibles reveal more than stats when they don’t.
Never mind interpreting statistics well, he’s better because you say so. Compelling.
No, he’s not better because I say so, he’s better because stats say so.
Excellent point! And it completely undermines your whole statistic-based analysis and opinion.
Wait, what? Statistics can tell you what’s occurred; it can tell you what might happen (projections). Gibsons’ stats tell me how he’s played thus far, and, thus far, he’s way worse than Thomas. How is this hard to understand?
No serious analyst of these type of statistics would look at Thomas’ limited numbers from this season alone and claim that they are the most accurate reflection of his "true" abilities (just as they wouldn’t have looked at Salmons’ limited stats last year as a Bull and arrived at such a conclusion). That you choose to do so reveals your limitations and bias.
Actually, I’ve given his career stats, stats from 2nd year, stats from rookie year, and you still try to undermine my opinions with ad hominem attacks. You give opinions that can’t be quantified! Hustle? Who cares about hustle when it leads to less wins? Congrats on that.
by NittanyCub on Feb 19, 2010 8:56 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
It's amazing that you still are making strawman arguments for this season
When I’ve given stats from his rookie year and 2nd year.
Here, this will give you a better idea as to what are opinions and what are facts
by NittanyCub on Feb 19, 2010 8:58 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
See above
You have a rather short memory. I took you to task for cherry picking, which is obviously what you did.
“The one where Thomas is 93 Drtg his rook year in comparison to Gibson’s 102?”
That is from your original post. You CHERRY PICKED TTs two lowest figures, and conveniently ignored his two most meaningful (full season, most minutes, etc.) numbers, which are virtually identical to Taj’s thus far. That is the very definition of cherry-picking.
If your interpretation of the available statistics is that Taj is “way worse” than Thomas, then you have a lot to learn about how to interpret stats.
by badnewsintennisshoes on Feb 19, 2010 9:28 AM CST up reply actions
Interesting comparison...
between Taj and P.J. Brown as rookies:
by badnewsintennisshoes on Feb 19, 2010 10:18 AM CST up reply actions
Now you're just switching the goal posts
You’re still not covering my whole post, and still building strawmen. I chose the 2007-2008 split for him, which you still ignore. And how about the other stats that I gave you? DRtg isn’t the end-all to defensive numbers — using your favorite word, you’re cherry-picking.
Look, there are a bunch of things wrong with how you build an argument, but your view on this is still wrong.
If your interpretation of the available statistics is that Taj is "way worse" than Thomas, then you have a lot to learn about how to interpret stats.
He is, and unfortunately you’re not that savvy to see it.
http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-bulls-confidential/2010/02/strong-potential-the-story-of-taj-gibson.html
Did you just give me a link on STATS?! Your argument was about intangibles! Switch the goalposts even more!
Hello? Anyone home?
Because you insist on ignoring factors beyond the statistics on which you over-rely, I have been pointing out how you have misused (misinterpreted) the very statistics that form the foundation of your position. I never said, nor implied anything like the idea that statistics have no meaning. There are no goalposts being changed at all.
“DRtg isn’t the end-all to defensive numbers”
No kidding? And yet you spouted them (in misleading fashion) as the statistical basis of your argument!
by badnewsintennisshoes on Feb 19, 2010 1:12 PM CST up reply actions
hey! stick to your quarantined zone.
http://www.blogabull.com/2010/2/18/1317245/beauty-thy-name-is-taj
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 19, 2010 2:10 PM CST up reply actions
Oh, btw
Just saying that
and I’ve pointed out that they actually aren’t when put into context.
from
Furthermore, given that Taj has been starting this season, he has obviously been guarding better players on balance than TT
Is hardly pointing out that Gibson has been starting against tougher competition. Really lazy as a matter of fact. Do your research
Really?
So you believe that Tyrus has been facing tougher players than Taj while coming off the bench? That’s rich.
by badnewsintennisshoes on Feb 19, 2010 7:10 AM CST up reply actions
And I have faithful stats to back me up!
PF’s who play against Gibson have a higher PER than when Thomas plays against him.
Inconsequential data
USE your eyes, damn fool.
"What are you doing Dragic?!"
Taj Gibson is older than what most people say.
He’s balding after all. he has zero room for growth and will never get better his entire time in the league.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Riddle me this
You claim that TT’s Drtg of 96 is superior to Taj’s number, while failing to note that TT’s numbers the previous two seasons were inferior to Taj’s. Furthermore, given that Taj has been starting this season, he has obviously been guarding better players on balance than TT. And yet you are quite happy to swallow the bare statistic at face value.
How the hell do you compare a Drtg for 2 players that don’t have the same surrounding counterparts. I understand it’s an individual statistic, but it’s affected by the surrounding cast. Therefore using this year with a similar surrounding cast nets the best comparison.
The fact that Taj has logged more minutes with the starters than Tyrus is a reflection on dumb coaching decision and a guy trying to ‘make a point’ that he’s in control of things. It was easier to do that with Tyrus than any other player. Taj was being used as a motivational tool to get Tyrus to play harder. Vinny was rode that wave way too long and missed the chance to give Tyrus his spot back so he had to keep rolling out the great Taj.
exactly you can't use stats only to prove your case
For 4 years we have seen that Tyrus is not very effective at all. Only in spurts and stretchs. Heck even in games he is good 1 quarter and dreadful the next.
TT fans go jump in a lake of your choice, he was a marginal player that could jump real high and quick, E-rob, Kenny Walker, hahaha.
"What are you doing Dragic?!"
You're exactly wrong
VERY effective, yet not consistent.
The Bulls would rather be consistently ‘blah’ (see Kirk).
Tyrus’s problem was that he did try too much at times. The reasoning behind it was because he thought he had to squeeze in as much of his game as he could in the limited time allotted.
Your argument is flawless. As you so cogently put it....Thomas is a player with a poor attitude and terrible b-ball IQ.
I guess that’s why Larry Brown, known as a stern taskmaster who demands near perfection in his players or else they sit and sit and sit…… would covet Tyrus and has been for a long time according to some sportscasters. It must mean Brown is a dim-witted jackass or is there another explanation? Like maybe he’s very knowledgable, can recognize potential and talent when he sees it and as one writer described it…..he’s salivating over Thomas and I don’t believe it was meant to be taken literally. Time will tell. As they say…..time heals all wounds and time also wounds all heals.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Feb 18, 2010 11:19 PM CST up reply actions
I've repeatedly stated...
that TT may blossom under different circumstances. It obviously wasn’t happening with the Bulls, so what would have been the point of keeping him?
Nevertheless, the percentages are against him ever fulfilling his potential. If Brown can get it out of him, more power to him.
by badnewsintennisshoes on Feb 18, 2010 11:24 PM CST up reply actions
so, basically
you’re point is boiled down to “Taj is a better player on the Bulls than Tyrus is.”
That’s a reasonable point.
"I want people to fear me"- Derrick Rose.
Taj is more effective
Tyrus may have better handles and heck his jumper may be better, but he not as effective.
"What are you doing Dragic?!"
did you use your eyes to see this?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 19, 2010 11:40 AM CST up reply actions
I think the reason some say Tyrus is better, is because he is more momentus
Taj is the better basketball player between the two. But Tyrus can bring momentum. His energy, demoralizing blocks and ally-oops, and wide open drives that lead to dominating dunks are all big momentum plays that Taj simply cannot do. Now, is the momentum Tyrus can cause a better basketball asset than Taj Gibson’s play? Maybe, probably not.
Why aren't they selling Rose's all star jersey?
I think the reason some say Tyrus is better
is because when he is playing, the team has a better chance to win the game.
Maybe that’s just me though. I mean, I love dunks too, but I’m hardly clamoring for Joe Alexander.
Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!
by Prevenge on Feb 19, 2010 4:42 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
It is true that...
TT is more exciting, and he is capable of creating eye-catching plays which can translate to momentum. That is an asset. But there are many great athletes in the NBA who can do that, and it is not as important as consistent, day-in day-out performance. And don’t forget that he is also a real momentum-killer at times by making bonehead plays – far more than Taj.
by badnewsintennisshoes on Feb 19, 2010 7:14 AM CST up reply actions
Truest words ever spoken on this blog...
All the Tyrus fanboys must be be slamming their heads against their keyboards after reading this.
Dave P
www.dabullseye.com
Da Bulls' Eye Forum Now Open
by Da Bulls' Eye on Feb 19, 2010 12:43 AM CST up reply actions
I do feel like shooting you,
but I have to say that it’s mainly because of your name.
Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!
Fantastic post
And points.
I’ve always been on the huge Tyrus fan (really until the latest suspension where enough was enough)….
But yeah Taj is playing quite well for us in his first 50 some games all the while battling Plantar Facisitis….
And there are no teams in the league that would turn down a guy making $1M who knows his role and tries to do what’s best to help the team, and well who can actually play….and has some room for improvement.
Sadly....through thick and thin....
Wade, Lebron, Bosh or bust
that is really what its about for the Bulls. If the Bulls get one of those guys, everyone will say this 2010 plan was worth it. If the Bulls don’t, people will trash the organization, and rightfully so. There has been some missteps on our way to the Summer of 2010.
by Basketball Smurf on Feb 18, 2010 9:20 PM CST reply actions
That neatly summarizes things. If they don't get one of those 3 guys, I'm pretty much done hoping they will be a championship
level team any time soon. You need at least two stars in the league to win it all. Rose looks like he should be one of those guys, but this is the Bulls only real chance to get another one for a long, long time. If they whiff, then the Bulls are boned for the foreseeable future.
It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147
We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.
-- yfBB
God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2010 9:22 PM CST up reply actions
that's why I hated this plan
even if they get a max FA, they won’t be a title contender until Rose’s prime. When he was drafted it was to a team with quite a bit of young talent, they could’ve tried and gone for it while on Rose’s rookie deal, but that was a bit pricey.
Now they basically have one shot. I guess if he ages well perhaps two.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 18, 2010 11:50 PM CST up reply actions
BUllshit
Rosa anD Bosh or Wade = instant title contender
"What are you doing Dragic?!"
typo Hell right there
"What are you doing Dragic?!"
Use your eyes.
Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 19, 2010 11:47 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
no bench
so I wouldn’t say instant. remember, all these guys on expiring deals are gone under a scenario where they sign Bosh outright.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 19, 2010 11:41 AM CST up reply actions
right, your bench consists of linton johnson the XVIIth and Chris Richards and PeeOn Curry
(cuz they know the org)
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Agreed.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
can't agree more
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Feb 18, 2010 10:50 PM CST up reply actions
completley agree.
Why aren't they selling Rose's all star jersey?
I think we need to go all-in for Bosh with Wade gettin some attention too. We can draft a SG for the future since we are stuck with Kirk for now.
I know we are going to get Lee/Johnson or some combo of that. It’s the Bulls way, second tier all day.
Also we need more talent, fuck intangibles…that stuff only gets you so far. In the NBA, talent wins.
There are only two main scenarios.
1) Cavs re-sign LeBron.
2) LeBron co-signs with Bosh/Wade at either Miami or NY.
Everything else falls out of these two scenarios.
Bosh or Bust
and the bulls best case scenario
is the get the leftovers of whatever Lebron chooses. I think I’m going to be sick…
by Basketball Smurf on Feb 18, 2010 9:32 PM CST up reply actions
Bosh could be a leftover.
that would be awesome.
Bosh or Bust
by JockstrapNoah on Feb 18, 2010 9:34 PM CST up reply actions
or Bosh and Lebron could go to NY
Amar’e could go to Miami, and Joe Camel Johnson could come to the Bulls.
by Basketball Smurf on Feb 18, 2010 9:35 PM CST up reply actions
Oh man, I hadn't thought of that.
I don’t like that one at all. I’m hoping Wade has a list of potential great teammates and that Rose is #3.
Bosh or Bust
by JockstrapNoah on Feb 18, 2010 9:37 PM CST up reply actions
We have a winner
Except Joe could go to NJ and the Bulls could get David Lee
by hitlesswonder on Feb 18, 2010 9:57 PM CST up reply actions
What is David Lee's price point?
10 mil? we’d have another 10 left over right? Then we could sign 10 pargos.
Bosh or Bust
by JockstrapNoah on Feb 18, 2010 10:00 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe LeBron and his old pal Boozer to NY?
Bosh to Miami. Joe Johnson to the bank.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 18, 2010 11:51 PM CST up reply actions
no. the best case scenario for the Bulls is one of those three signs with the Bulls early in free agency.
Why aren't they selling Rose's all star jersey?
Two free agents?
If we successfully recruit Joe Johnson and Atlanta agrees to a sign and trade for Hinrich does this allow us to sign another max free agent?
probably
but what we should do is, before we sign and trade for Johnson, force them to throw in Al Horford for Taj. I’m sure they would agree with it because they know his intangibles are off the charts
by Basketball Smurf on Feb 18, 2010 9:41 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
LOL
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
Teams would rather have nothing
than Kirk Hinrich
by LoveForTheGame on Feb 18, 2010 9:49 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
pretty much.
Hawks have Crawford, and could bring back Josh Childress from exile
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 18, 2010 11:52 PM CST up reply actions
the NUGGETS ARE the dumbest team in the league.
Beasley spent the first two quarters like he was wandering through a forest.-Neil Funk
good ending for lebron. hes made too many of those clutch 3s. hed be way better off doing to the hoop.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
Yeah when he gets here we can fix that.
Beasley spent the first two quarters like he was wandering through a forest.-Neil Funk
Loving the deal and the plan
Look, Tyrus was going to go for nothing. He wasn’t going to be signed this offseason because the Bulls want to have an unbridled shot at the big three and they’d lose him for nothing. They got a future first round pick for him. Stop being stupid. I will miss Tyrus, too. I always thought he could peak at a Kirilenko/Marion type to a Rodman if the offensive game never stabilized. But he was not going to be on this roster next year regardless, so get something for him. All you guys bitching about losing BG for nothing should be able to appreciate this.
Taj is ridiculously underrated. His game is beautiful and I can see him being a huge asset this offseason in a sign-and-trade (with Deng?) should the Bulls have a shot at two guys, or a fine double-double potential 4 with terrific defense. He is someone you want on your team, no question.
by messwiththebull on Feb 18, 2010 9:55 PM CST reply actions
It is
He plays a beautiful game. The dude is a fahking beast. How you people don’t see this is astounding.
by messwiththebull on Feb 18, 2010 10:00 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I was told not to argue with fools
because people from a distance can’t tell whom is whom
by messwiththebull on Feb 18, 2010 10:02 PM CST up reply actions
Wrapping up Taj in a bow ribbon
and pronouncing his game beautiful isn’t really a great argument. He’s a decent rookie, it should be left at that.
Bosh or Bust
by JockstrapNoah on Feb 18, 2010 10:06 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Taj can't tell where the basket is and he's usually not from a distance.
"You know what Neil, stop being such a sourpuss." - Stacey King
You will learn to love him
one can only refrain from appreciating the beauty that is his game; I can sense you turning already. Taj Gibson will be closer to what Joe Smith was supposed to be than Joe Smith was actually able to become.
by messwiththebull on Feb 18, 2010 10:31 PM CST up reply actions
I don't know about that site
but you do. That already means I win.
by messwiththebull on Feb 18, 2010 10:37 PM CST up reply actions
rosegirldotcom
posts here all the time, and does so with the vocabulary/intelligence of a 12 year old. A retarded one.
"I want people to fear me"- Derrick Rose.
Joe Smith was a number one pick.
He was supposed to be god.
Bosh or Bust
by JockstrapNoah on Feb 18, 2010 10:37 PM CST up reply actions
i dont know if you meant good if you really meant god
but yeah the dude was supposed to be one of the best talents and id bet my life that taj doesnt get anywhere near that kind of talent
by sin on Feb 18, 2010 10:40 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Heh I mean god
but yeah, he’s considered to have fallen far short of expectations, which at the time were wild.
Bosh or Bust
by JockstrapNoah on Feb 18, 2010 10:42 PM CST up reply actions
You don't think Taj
could be a double-double guy and get you1-2 blocks each game as a starter?
by messwiththebull on Feb 18, 2010 10:44 PM CST up reply actions
In his rookie year
he’s showing me that he can be.
by messwiththebull on Feb 18, 2010 10:46 PM CST up reply actions
against scrubs he could.
against the starting pfs of the league i promise you he wont get anything but 2 quick fouls every game he starts
I can see you turning already
you’ll be talking about hugtajdotcom in no time.
by messwiththebull on Feb 18, 2010 10:49 PM CST up reply actions
i dig this guy
Doesn’t seem very moral to me. Might as well take Satan’s autograph while you’re at it. - N.C.
by Illini0509 on Feb 18, 2010 10:50 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
His per36 minutes are 11.7 points, 9.7 rebs, and 1.7 blocks
so I guess with true “starter’s minutes” he could do it, but 12 and 10 (rounding up generously) isn’t really all that great … especially since he gets his points really inefficiently 49.9 TS% – which is mostly because he shoots tons of midrange jumpers and sucks at finishing.
It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147
We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.
-- yfBB
God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2010 10:48 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
You're basing this off his rookie year numbers
Pretty damn good, no? Imagine him getting a little bigger and more refined now.
by messwiththebull on Feb 18, 2010 10:50 PM CST up reply actions
No, not pretty damn good. He's 24, his body isn't going to change much
and the reason he’s inefficient is that he shoots too many jumpers and he can’t hang onto the ball on the inside to finish. He’s got small hands or something. He’s got the worst hands I’ve seen since Tyson Chandler.
It’s candy. I don’t eat poop-flavored candy. I’m not going to watch poop-level basketball.
--tyger1147
We hear the talk about his fit, intangibles, ‘glue guy’, ‘thrust’, and any other ways you can put lipstick on a sub-40% shooting pig, but it’s become increasingly clear that it can’t be just propaganda when the moves they make (or don’t) say that they believe their own hype.
-- yfBB
God, I hate Hinrich and his poop-level play.
by fundamentallysound on Feb 18, 2010 10:52 PM CST up reply actions
Assuming you're older than 24
your body hasn’t changed? I’m in the best shape of my life; a sexual tyrannosaurus. Taj can certainly hit the weight room. Look at him.
Taj will improve after this season, on experience alone. I would not be shocked to see him have Horace Grant-esque career or better. That would not shock me. I think he’ll be better than Joe Smith was, and I thought Joe Smith was/is a nice player.
by messwiththebull on Feb 18, 2010 10:59 PM CST up reply actions
Is this a bad attempt at Deadspin-esque satire?
Needs more invasion of privacy photos.
Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 18, 2010 11:01 PM CST up reply actions
This is very real.
I’m not saying Taj will be an all-star. That would certainly surprise me. I’d sell that volatility. But certainly a starter on a championship contending team over time. Not today, but by his third year I think he’ll be at that level.
You’ll all see. I can tune.
by messwiththebull on Feb 18, 2010 11:05 PM CST up reply actions
Well, Taj could certainly start on a title team.
Provided the other starters are Rose, Wade, Deng, and Bosh.
Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 18, 2010 11:06 PM CST up reply actions
They couldn't afford me.
Unless you’re talking about Hannah Montana.
Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 18, 2010 11:09 PM CST up reply actions
i dont know whats worse
people thinking taj is some awesome pf
or people thinking hannah montana can sing
maybe this is a bit?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 18, 2010 11:53 PM CST up reply actions
lol @ the Tyrus apologists, was he sleeping with them too?
by Playboy_BullV on Feb 18, 2010 10:54 PM CST up reply actions
you never give up, do you?
It’s just sad and too, too bad you never back up any of your Thomas derision with a single fact.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Feb 18, 2010 11:22 PM CST up reply actions
Tyrus Thomas blows
You have never posted anything here other than a retarded clamoring for TT, and hatred of VDN for not playing him.
You are a clown of the first rate.
"What are you doing Dragic?!"
pretty sure it's "who is who"
Unless your reference is different than mine, Jay-Z doesn’t usually rap with such precise grammar. (Nor should he).
"You ain’t as hot as I is / all of these false prophets is not messiahs /
You don’t know how high the sky is / the square mileage of earth or what pi is." - Nas
how is this not green?
Doesn’t seem very moral to me. Might as well take Satan’s autograph while you’re at it. - N.C.
Taj's game is beautiful like Rosie O'Donnell is beautiful.
Although his game is much smoother than hers I doubt if he would be able to hold his position against her under the boards……not with that caboose she’s carrying.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Feb 18, 2010 10:54 PM CST up reply actions
Do not compare Tyrus to Rodman...
Don’t even use their name in the same sentence. Rodman is maybe the greatest rebounder the game has ever seen and probably one of the great defenders ever at his position. Tyrus, after 4 years, doesn’t even understand the concept of help defense, nor the difference between a blocked shot and a goaltend. If you think about it, Rodman at his worst even offensively, was better than Tyrus at his best offensively. How did the perception of Tyrus ever get to this level?
Dave P
www.dabullseye.com
Da Bulls' Eye Forum Now Open
by Da Bulls' Eye on Feb 19, 2010 1:03 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Get over yourself
I always thought he could peak at a Kirilenko/Marion type to a Rodman if the offensive game never stabilized.
Is “could peak” difficult to understand?
12/31/08: Fire Vinny Del Negro.(upd: 1/7/10)
by NBA Observer on Feb 19, 2010 9:28 AM CST up reply actions
I don't see the downside.
If the Bulls fail, we all get to be angry (which let’s be honest everyone loves), and we get to rosterbate for another 5 years. Win-win!
Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 18, 2010 10:43 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
haha
awesome
Doesn’t seem very moral to me. Might as well take Satan’s autograph while you’re at it. - N.C.
I'll rec that.
Beasley spent the first two quarters like he was wandering through a forest.-Neil Funk
true, Hinrich is still in the trade machine
that’s enough entertainment for years.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 18, 2010 11:54 PM CST up reply actions
new fanpost up on taj
Doesn’t seem very moral to me. Might as well take Satan’s autograph while you’re at it. - N.C.
David Schuster Congrats to the Bulls….Job well done at the deadline but they’re likely still not done dealing…..More could very well come on draft nite. Stay tuned
Beasley spent the first two quarters like he was wandering through a forest.-Neil Funk
i know you're joking, but
fucknofucknofucknofucknofuckno
Why aren't they selling Rose's all star jersey?
Oh no, does this mean we'll lose Kirk?
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Feb 18, 2010 11:23 PM CST up reply actions
apparently he said they will try to deal him on draft.
I talked to him for a bit. Said the Bulls still want 2 MAX guys.
Beasley spent the first two quarters like he was wandering through a forest.-Neil Funk
is that just speculation on his part?
(i’m not local anymore so i don’t know if schuster has legit access, although the name is familiar)
Doesn’t seem very moral to me. Might as well take Satan’s autograph while you’re at it. - N.C.
see.
I talked to him for a bit and he said to me thats what they will try to do. Increase his value and deal him on draft night. I asked him how he knew and he said his antenna stretches very far. lol He also said he’s around the team a lot so he sounds pretty plugged in. I’m sure all those guys talk. So take it for whatever it’s worth.
Beasley spent the first two quarters like he was wandering through a forest.-Neil Funk
thanks
Doesn’t seem very moral to me. Might as well take Satan’s autograph while you’re at it. - N.C.
He mentioned for what it's worth that it would be another money saving deal.
Beasley spent the first two quarters like he was wandering through a forest.-Neil Funk
naturally.
sounds like we’re moving picks
Doesn’t seem very moral to me. Might as well take Satan’s autograph while you’re at it. - N.C.
no expiring contracts on draft night
maybe they could find a non-guaranteed 2010 deal
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 18, 2010 11:55 PM CST up reply actions
is steve blake, travis oulaw, or sasha whatever a non-guaranteed deal?
by LoveForTheGame on Feb 18, 2010 11:58 PM CST up reply actions
Couldn't
They trade him to a team under the cap or one with a trade exception that was big enough?
(Not sure how likely those scenarios are, but they are out there, as far as I understand).
"You ain’t as hot as I is / all of these false prophets is not messiahs /
You don’t know how high the sky is / the square mileage of earth or what pi is." - Nas
I am not sure about trade exceptions
But teams that are under the cap will not want an overpaid Kirk Hinrich, or even a Kirk Hinrich in general. They would much rather go after free-agents. Kirk Hinrich is for teams looking for that last piece off the bench that can instantly help a championship contenders. But, championship contenders are usually paying the luxury tax. Reinsdork will never understand that concept.
by LoveForTheGame on Feb 19, 2010 12:07 AM CST up reply actions
I didn't mean to comment on the likelihood
Just the possibility. The question was posed about how we could get further under the cap this offseason by trading away a player under contract, and this is one possibility.
(You are obviously correct that it is unlikely).
"You ain’t as hot as I is / all of these false prophets is not messiahs /
You don’t know how high the sky is / the square mileage of earth or what pi is." - Nas
they don't set the 2010 cap until after the draft
they would have to make deals through trade exceptions or the usual 125% rule for both squads over the cap.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 19, 2010 9:36 AM CST up reply actions
He is the Bulls/Cubs reporter for the Score 670.
Beasley spent the first two quarters like he was wandering through a forest.-Neil Funk
KC mentions the draft day trade as well.
Forman also cited the city and Bulls fans as reasons a player might leave his current team to come to Chicago. Wade is considered the Bulls’ top target, and though it’s a long shot, there’s a possibility management can engineer a draft-day trade to clear enough salary-cap space to offer two maximum contracts.
Pay no attention to the words long shot. He also said Salmons has 0 trade value.
Beasley spent the first two quarters like he was wandering through a forest.-Neil Funk
Somehow, I can see a sign-and-trade happening...
When Gar said it was important not to tear up the nucleus now (at the trade deadline), what I think he meant by saying this is that it’s important not to give up assets for a sign-and-trade on draft day. Remember, the Cavs, Heat, and Raptors at this point don’t know if their superstars will stay or go. By draft day, the intentions of LeBron, Dwyane, and Bosh may be a lot clearer, and the Bulls will be position to either:
1) send Deng/Hinrich/Gibson/#1 from Charlotte or their own #1s in a sign-and-trade for one of the superstars (if they want that extra year) and be able to sign a 2nd superstar or
2) sign LeBron, Dwyane, or Bosh outright as a free agent; keep the young, talented supporting cast the Bulls already have; and immediately contend for a championship.
I’m actually not too concerned about the Knicks and Nets (as long as neither team gets Wall) or the Heat because LeBron, Dwyane, and Bosh will have trash around them, especially if 2 sign with one team. The Clippers have a nice group of players but Baron and Kaman are older and Griffin is untested. The other max cap teams are in smaller markets.
If I’m LeBron, Dwyane, or Bosh, I want to be rich while winning multiple championships in an awesome city with the best fans—I would look no further than going to Chicago.
Think about it.
man TNT had some GREAT games tonight.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
cavs nugs
was epic
Doesn’t seem very moral to me. Might as well take Satan’s autograph while you’re at it. - N.C.
Nuggets almost blew it.
Beasley spent the first two quarters like he was wandering through a forest.-Neil Funk
this one is like a playoff game too.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
ooh, maybe I should go back to watching it
was playing NBA 2k10 :P
Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!
Oh, it's over
87-86? Geez.
It’s so sad to watch Garnett obviously hampered by his knee … but he’s STILL one of the best PF’s in the league, even wandering around and limping and being dunked on.
Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!
I only saw the first 3 minutes
Gasol pushed him, and then he couldn’t get out, and started yelling after he fouled him. Well … Gasol or Bynum. I forget.
Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!
Watching Derek Fisher make exactly 0 good basketball plays tonight just pissed me off to no end.
Those rich fuckers couldn’t take Kirk for 2 more damn years?
Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 19, 2010 1:10 AM CST up reply actions
ahahah
the whole game I also thought Hinrich would have been a great fit for that game
by LoveForTheGame on Feb 19, 2010 1:27 AM CST up reply actions
hahahaha. i thought that every single time fisher touched the ball. and every time fisher got
too gassed to chase ray allen around screens.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
They should play not Derek Fisher
EVERY GAME.
It boggles my mind that Fisher is still getting minutes. He’s like their version of Lindsay Hunter, only they’re a good team.
Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!
"the lakers had no shot at Kirk Hinrich"
-Sam Smith
::barf::
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 19, 2010 9:38 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
can't they just let us pretend the lakers didn't want him??
Doesn’t seem very moral to me. Might as well take Satan’s autograph while you’re at it. - N.C.
Hops and Stats
This blogs host—and many of it’s followers—have a shallow depth of thought when it comes to basketball. There’s more to basketball than hops and stats, though you wouldn’t know it reading this blog or the comments here.
I am thankful for this blog for providing links to the games, as I prefer watching games than a fantasy league. I might suggest the same priorities for those looking for insight into why the org rightly likes Kirk and not Tyrus.
Please stay
I’m sensing your wisdom is too much to take elsewhere.
12/31/08: Fire Vinny Del Negro.(upd: 1/7/10)
by NBA Observer on Feb 19, 2010 9:25 AM CST up reply actions
I love how people unable to engage in any type of legit discussion or arguments
sink to empty platitudes and insults when people disagree with their point of view. There is a whole argument about TT going on in the thread. Please, join the discussion or stay a follower and not a poster.
by Basketball Smurf on Feb 19, 2010 11:19 AM CST up reply actions
I'm glad you enjoy the providing of illegal streaming of NBA games so you can spout off more uninformed opinions.
Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 19, 2010 11:38 AM CST up reply actions
The Bulls should buyout both Devin Brown and Jannero Pargo,
and sign one or two players from the D-League.
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