Dear Kurt.
by SoulEater7 on Feb 11, 2010 11:41 PM CST
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PrintDear Kurt,
I'm sure you're in some warm climate right now. What can I say? Could it be goodbye? I remember the first time I watched you play basketball for Kansas.. you were on fire. Oddly I never imagined you'd be a Chicago Bull even as impressive a showing you had that night. But lets face it, you were supposed to be D-Wade. The early years were ok. I think you even dunked once on Lebron's Cavs. What a statement you made!
If Tuesday against the Knicks is the last dance well what a dance it will be. Honestly I never thought you'd still be here. You were the Captain of mediocrity. You helped JR make a decent penny or two and were rewarded for it. So good for you and your flock of disciples. I'm sure you'll be a solid player for maybe a better team like the Lakers or Magic. But not here. Not here. It's time to build something real now. If we fail we fail but the worst thing the Bulls can do is not try. I'll never forget all the memories you left us with like...... getting dunked on by Flip Murray.
Or getting crossed over by
Signed Souleater7(Your hater)
PS If you're still here after the 18th I'm driving my car into Lake Michigan!
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Vinny del Negro calls him "Kurt",
We miss you, Ben Gordon!
by Granny Waiters on Feb 13, 2010 1:24 PM CST up reply actions
The haters are gonna win this one.
They usually do, just like with BG, just like it’ll be with Tyrus. In a year or two there’ll be another scapegoat…maybe Deng, or Noah, maybe their new FA signing, could even be Rose. One thing is certain, if they don’t win a titile, the hate will rain down.
Don’t worry, the lake is safe(or it won’t be any less safe than it is now). If I’m wrong, please consider that I get my drinking water out of Lake Michigan, and would appreciate it if your car wasn’t driven into it…
by kingles on Feb 12, 2010 1:36 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
please consider that I get my drinking water out of Lake Michigan, and would appreciate it if your car wasn’t driven into it…
indeed, i ditto that reaction…
If you want, however, souleater you can take my car …ive been thinking about buying a new one anyway, maybe ill check out the local dealerships before i go see hinrich demolish the 76ers on the 20th….
;p
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
Surely there's a lake somewhere that wouldn't hurt anyone, right?
Well, other than Souleater, assuming he actually intended to stay in the car.
I just don’t think the Bulls would be that impressed with angry fans rolling their cars into lakes in protest and walking away.
Lake Calumet could hardly be degraded.
We miss you, Ben Gordon!
by Granny Waiters on Feb 13, 2010 1:25 PM CST up reply actions
souleater7 please go kill yourself
well these fans have said Kirk they don’t want a hard worker or a great defender on this team they’d take a 10 losing season as long as Rose is an all star once Wade comes to Chicago Rose will just fade away good luck with a new team hope you get a ring before you retire and
by bullsfan24 on Feb 12, 2010 8:28 AM CST reply actions
Oh Whatever...
Capt. Kirk is the poster child for what’s wrong with this team. He’s the perfect example of accepted mediocrity and playing it safe. He’s a walking hypocrisy. This is the guy everyone should really be pissed off at if we don’t get a big time FA. Here’s a guy who got the big contract, and played down to it every year afterward. This guy went from being compared to Steve Nash to barely being as good as Luke Ridnour. As soon as Rose went down with that injury the other night, you seen the real Kirk Hinrich. I mean really, give me a break. If Kirk was the player he was suppose to be we’d have Brook Lopez playing center right now and wouldn’t of had to spend a 1st round pick redrafting his position.
By the way, he’s an ok defender not a “great” one. People act like he’s Alvin Robertson or Bruce Bowen. I watched Andre Miller hang like 25 on this guy last year. He’s overrated and an underachiever and is the perfect example of how fans and media pick who the favorites and villains are around here because as far as I’m concerned he’s one of the villains.
by Dils on Feb 12, 2010 9:09 AM CST up reply actions 5 recs
No.
Ben Wallace’s contract ghost is what’s killed this team. Ben Wallace quitting killed this team in 2007, and his bad contract still sits on our books (in semi decent old man Miller and semi decent but another luxury SF in Salmons)….
This would have been Ben’s final Bulls year…..
Sadly....through thick and thin....
Ben Wallace being awful led to Derrick Rose..
If Ben Wallace was never signed, we’d still be an average team, which is exactly what we don’t want.
by Grinder in Training on Feb 12, 2010 9:38 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
then techinically
kirk not playing like he has led to derrick rose..
I'm cuckoo for Kukoc!!!
I'm buying tickets for Feb. 20th. First home game after the trade deadline. Will I be happy?
So that's your argument for wanting him around?
So the franchise can wallow in mediocrity over-paying him to lead them there?
by kingj41 on Feb 12, 2010 10:15 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
im not sayin i want him around
if the right deal come at it benefits the bulls im fine with it. im just saying that everything that happened before rose led to rose. if we never traded aldridge for tyrus, there’d be no rose..
I'm cuckoo for Kukoc!!!
I'm buying tickets for Feb. 20th. First home game after the trade deadline. Will I be happy?
People always say that about Aldridge/Tyrus...
But unless you are saying that with Aldridge we would have never missed the playoffs in 08, thus being out of the lottery altogether, then it simply isn’t based in absolute fact.
Let’s say with Aldridge we just barely missed the 08’ playoffs and fell to the 14th lottery slot (the worst lottery position). With a .5 percent chance (at 14) is it THAT much better than a 1.7 percent chance (at 9, which is where we were)? Not really, neither of those slots have a real chance anyway. We just lucky as hell to win the lottery at 9. No planning for luck that..
The point is that we clearly beat the odds, and while Aldridge was (and still is) clearly the better player than Tyrus in 07/08, was he so much better to have carried that awful 07’/08’ Bulls team into the playoffs?… I don’t know.
FYI here is our “quality” 07’/08’ roster…
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/2008.html
I think we can all agree THAT team is hardly one second year Aldridge away from much success. And before you reply, I’ll acquiesce that Aldridge was a hell of a player from his second year on, but consider this…
I’m not even sure that Aldridge sees quality minutes on that team given our organizations continual lack of foresight in developing young talent and their obvious want for veteran leadership (especially at both forward spots in 07’/08’).
Again, while Aldridge clearly is the better player than Tyrus, I’m definitely not convinced that in this hypothetical world where he stays with the Bulls that we don’t end up with Rose anyway.
How can we have the worst offense in the league when everything about our team owner and coach is offensive?
by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 13, 2010 4:12 PM CST up reply actions
I'm rec'ing
for the Alvin Robertson name drop
by QUINTEN DALEY on Feb 12, 2010 10:22 AM CST up reply actions
okay ure gonna have to clarify a few of your points for me
1) bq. He’s the perfect example of accepted mediocrity and playing it safe. He’s a walking hypocrisy.
2) bq. This is the guy everyone should really be pissed off at if we don’t get a big time FA.
3) bq. perfect example of how fans and media pick who the favorites and villains are around here because as far as I’m concerned he’s one of the villains.
4) bq. If Kirk was the player he was suppose to be we’d have Brook Lopez playing center right now and wouldn’t of had to spend a 1st round pick redrafting his position.
1-How can someone be the poster child for something, and at the same time be the hipocracy of the same thing. to be hypocritical means that you are not what you preach others to be. The organization preaches hard working, over achieving, defensive minded loyal players…isnt that hinrich? So i agree he is the poster child of what this organization tried to be and failed at, and perhaps to end that regime they have to let him go, but whats with the hypocrisy?? There is none….
2-If hinrich doesnt get traded, why should everyone be pissed off at him. Hes not the guy preventing trades is he? He doesnt have a no trade clause, he doesnt have veto power. So why is he the guy everyone should hate, shouldnt the hate be directed at the people who are making the actual decisions?
3-perfect definition of hypocrisy right here, your tone suggests that u are condeming the media and fans of chicago for pikcing favorites and villains, and then you go ahead and claim hinrich as a villain, shouldnt you be preaching to us getting over biases and looking at situations in their true light, not just doing what u hate us for doing. If you can justify that in your eyes hinrich is one of the villains, then whats wrong with me justifying that hinrich is one of my favoirites?
4-If kirk ended up staying the player he was in 06, then maybe the bulls wouldnt have the first pick i suppose, although the rest of the team would still be having a bad season and in that light i dont know what kirk could actually do on his own that would merit more than a few more wins. Still the bulls didnt pick rose because of his position, they picked rose because he was easily the best player available…beasley i guess seemed to have too many problems in terms of personality, and so rose was easily the pick, and rose was so far ahead of everyone else, that it mustve been like a no brainer. at least at the time…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Feb 12, 2010 12:39 PM CST up reply actions
Here's my shot at clarifying.
1.) Hinrich has been the poster child for what this organization stands for. You know the hard working, gritty effort guy type right? OK. Now that same player gets his payday and then goes on to not live up to the contract. In fact he has his worse year as a pro and has continued on that downward trajectory since. So the hypocrisy to me is that if a player gets a payday and then declines in his year after getting paid, he’s usually looked at and treated as a villain or someone stealing money in this town ask (Alphonso Soriano). Somehow Hinrich has eluded that title and continues to be treated as this “effort” “Gritty” guy. That’s not what he got paid to be. So yes hypocrisy. Hypocrisy by some fans and media.
2.)Because if Hinrich doesn’t get traded, then you’re depending on John Salmons of all people to opt of his contract which can kill the chances of getting a big time FA. Why do we have to move Kirk? Because he was over paid and over valued in the first place. If he was paid his worth then maybe this isn’t an issue. Kirk set the market for everything else. Because Kirk got that contract, Deng and Gordon wanted something equal to or more than what Kirk got. So next Deng gets overpaid and Gordon gets let go for nothing because he believes he’s the better player, which he was. Outside of the Wallace contract, the overvaluing of Hinrich set us back the most.
3.) There’s nothing wrong with loving Kirk. I’ll be honest with you that I’m a Gordon guy. I’m one of those fans that believes Gordon with Rose would be a good thing and that we wouldn’t have to maybe go get Joe Johnson at age 29 with a max deal because we could have BG entering his prime for less to do most of the same things. I say this because all I’ve heard for 4 years is what BG couldn’t do. How he was greedy for wanting to get paid more that Kirk or Deng. HE was considered the VILLAIN. So much so that he was booed in his first game back in Chicago. So excuse me if I want to call a guy that I know for a fact, didn’t live up to his contract a villain for being treated like some endearing, hard nose winner. He isn’t. The guy who left actually was.
4.) I’m glad they got Rose but if was Hinrich was the PG he was suppose to be, there’s a chance the Bulls would’ve only needed a post player and wouldn’t have had to draft Rose. Example: If the Bulls have the 1st pick in this year’s draft and have a chance to get either the best post-up player in the draft or John Wall at PG, what do you think they would do? What do you think they should do? At worst they are holding the 1st pick for the highest bidder to get the right piece to fit with Rose. If Hinrich was the player he was suppose to be, what would the Bulls have done with that pick in ’08?
I’m not knocking people for loving Hinrich and I think he’s a decent player but all this gritty leadership stuff gets a little tired. He’s always been overvalued in the same way I feel Deng has been and Taj is now. It’s a culture of this stuff starting with Paxson and how he envisions a team. That stuff is fine but our starting 2-guard is averaging 10/3/4 this year. Come on.
ah very good
i still dont agree with that second point (hinrichs overvalue isnt done by his self, but by the organization, a player is supposed to try to get the biggest contract he can, management gave kirk his contract, they couldve easily told him its too much and let him either step the offer down or just let him walk,) If you read your own clarification of that point you will probably find you are more blaming management for the entire prediciment yourself…again hinrich has no bearing on anything related to personel of this team, who stays and who goes…and to fault a guy for asking for money and then accepting that money is also unfair…so for your points of number i deem that it should be management who is truly at fault…but i regress
Thanks for clearing up the rest of your points, i wont say i agree or think you are right, but at least they make alot more sense (to me) then before the clarification
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
Agreed, GarPaxDorf are the Hypocrites
They set the payscale with those Hinrich and Deng contracts. Then they act incredulous that player/agents want to use them as a standard to overpay their clients as well. How about getting rid of the Garbage contracts morons?
"Joe Johnson at age 29 with a max deal because we could have BG entering his prime for less to do most of the same things"
Really? “Most of the same things”? What does BG do other than score from the perimeter? Seriously.
Uh...CONSISTENTLY score from the perimeter
How about that? Then throw in 4th quarter scoring and clutch shooting. Stop acting like the guy was Craig Hodges while he was here.
Hinrich is just a decent guard with a good guard's contract.
Nothing more, nothing less.
Don’t hate him for being overpaid, hate the management.
Kirk actually looks like he’s trying out there, he’s unselfish and he puts forth the effort on defense. What more can you ask out of a small, not terribly quick, white guy in the NBA?
It’s not his fault he was overpaid. He’s had a solid NBA career and he can still contribute in the top 6-7 or the rotation for a majority of the teams in the league.
I just want to trade him because his contract sucks. If he were getting 4m a year, I wouldn’t see the need to trade him, he would make a fine 3rd guard at that price.
Dear Kirk,
Not all fans are morons. The little things you do – many actually appreciate. Thank you for help cultivating the organization’s beautiful flower. Everyone doesn’t always appreciate or recognize the hardwork and unique traits it takes to help something grow. Your fellow farmers got rid of the weed (BG) last year and that beautiful flower, Rose, has spread his roots and grown. Flowers can’t grow if a weed is sucking the life and not letting them grow to their full potential, but Flowers also can grow great if they aren’t taken care of. Thank you for your sacrifices. If you do leave for a warmer climate, please sport your new jersey in the sun and send us a picture of your farmer’s tan, so we have something to remember all that you have done.
Sincerely,
not a hater
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You call BG a weed
yet you’re not a hater?
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
by bigballa10 on Feb 12, 2010 9:32 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Definition of a weed
- any plant that crowds out cultivated plants
- A weed in a general sense is a plant that is considered by the user of the term to be a nuisance, and normally applied to unwanted plants in human-made settings such as gardens, lawns or agricultural areas, but also in parks, woods and other natural areas. …
- Weeding – Weed control is the botanical component of pest control, stopping weeds from reaching a mature stage of growth when they could be harmful to domesticated plants and livestock by physical and chemical methods. …
Sounds a lot like BG
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Just because BG was
unwanted by the Bulls doesn’t make him a weed. He was as professional as can be as attested to by Pax and even Skiles. The nuisance thing holds no weight. Ok so Rose has now become the guy. That’s great but don’t try to say having a legit scoring threat and 3 point shooter (BG) was holding him back. If that’s the case, there should be no need for a guy like Joe Johnson or even Wade, who need the ball a lot more than BG.
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
BG did 1 thing and did it well
I’d rather have a garden with a beautiful Rose and other complementing plants that win a prize, then a garden with a weed that won’t allow the flower to grow.
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Weren't you just
complaining about the Bulls needing 3-pt shooting?
And tell me, what does Kirk do so well? Because your mancrush manlove prose never touched on his basketball ability.
Manlove
The Bulls do need 3-pt shooting, but not out of a player that dominates the ball and who’s strengths aren’t moving without the ball and not out of a player that doesn’t bring anything else to the table. BG is and was a great shooter, but that is all he did, and the Bulls letting him go was the right move. its not a coincidence that BG’s name is brought up in trade rumors already in Detroit.
I heard this on the radio and I agree with this, “Kirk knows where to stand”. It might be something small but besides his secondary ball handling skills, leadership, and defense that helps Rose. He understands spacing and where to go on the court, so he is an option during the play. BJ Armstrong knew to run to the corner, and he made a living off of it. Knowing where to go on the basketball court and allowing the offense to flow, so the team is the best makes a big difference.
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At least BG was great at one thing
Hinrich is great at nothing. By the way the Rose/BG backcourt was one of the best in basketball last year in terms of production. Rose being better has nothing to do with Bg being gone. It just means that Rose got better. Period. Like somehow having a guy averaging 20 a game wouldn’t have helped earlier this season in some of those close losses.
What I still don’t get out of the argument that BG somehow held Rose back is this… How did Rose win Rookie of the Year last year with BG? Seriously. BG had his most consistent year and Rose won ROY. So how was that a bad thing? Rose is going to the All-Star game this year after playing with someone, for more than half the season, that was the true definition of a Ball Stopper who couldn’t shoot for his life in John Salmons.
by Dils on Feb 12, 2010 10:44 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
WOW!
He frickin knows where to stand… (puke)
And BG never caught the ball off a screen… (I thought you watched basketball)
And BG ALWAYS dominated the ball. (ditto above)
Take your Kirk-colored glasses off, please.
by kingj41 on Feb 12, 2010 11:03 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
I wanted
Ben gone and I’m in the trade Hinrich camp, Hinrich peaked 3 years ago as a player, his skills our declining, he has to go trade him for expirings please!!!, In sports you either want to challenge for a title our challenge for the #1 draft pick, keeping Kirk = mediocrity, mediocrity gets you nowhere, this team as is has a low ceilling.
by QUINTEN DALEY on Feb 12, 2010 11:08 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Look, I don't hate Kirk
but I don’t see the point in holding on to a guy that SHOULD be the 3rd guard on a team with a good point guard.
He shouldn’t be a starting SG. He can start at PG for some teams. And that’s what he should be doing. That’s what he’s getting paid to do. But he’s not the starting PG here. And the Bulls don’t have the luxury to pay him what he’s paid without addressing the needs on the team.
by kingj41 on Feb 12, 2010 11:14 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Yeah I know
I didn’t even want to respond to that. It’s so ridiculous to suggest somehow that BG doesn’t understand spacing or doesn’t move without the ball. Once I saw that, I realized it wasn’t worth continuing to reply.
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
by bigballa10 on Feb 12, 2010 11:12 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Whatever
Like I said originally, how does this make you not a hater? All these flower analogies don’t have anything to do with my original reply. You’re still being a hater, just not a Hinrich hater. For the record, I don’t hate either of them.
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
by bigballa10 on Feb 12, 2010 11:01 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
okay Rickey
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*You go too far…BG was not a “weed”. *
He scored over 20ppg last year on only 16fga per game. Rose is scoring just under 20, on 18fga.. That BG hogged all the shots is a fallacy. Deng takes almost as many shots as BG did.
See…this is what I was talking about in my post at the top. People are just kicking the hater can down the road. When Kirk and Tyrus are gone it’ll just be someone else who gets blamed.
When Noah gets paid
then it will be him. “He’s just a rebound/defender, that’s all he does well and blah blah blah”.
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
I always hated the Ben vs. Kirk thing
They played well together and complimented each other’s weaknesses. For years we had them both on rookie contracts, yet there was always this “which one” thing going on. I hated to see Ben go, but I thought – at least – maybe the whole “which one” thing could die down with one gone and one still a Bull.
Silly me.
And yes, I agree – unless this team has another dynasty stretch, there’s always going to be someone fans hate. Another reason for me to hate MJ. ;)
LOL
I can’t help but laugh at this. Get some help dude, seriously.
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
i really hope u follow up on that last line
whats the point of this… and showing him dunked on on fast breaks, where hes the only defender going up against multiple guys???
I'm cuckoo for Kukoc!!!
I'm buying tickets for Feb. 20th. First home game after the trade deadline. Will I be happy?
apparently
so are the haters? Ugh
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Feb 12, 2010 11:32 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah…Kirk gets a shot in even when being posterized.
Kirk has a nasty streak on the court, this is one of the things I like about him. Opposing players don’t like to play against him, opposing fans don’t like him, officials don’t like him, only his teammates like Kirk. It will be intersting to see how Bulls fans will view him when he comes back with his new team.
kirk
I know some ppl don’t like Hinrich because hes white and is not a lebron or michael jordon type but he plays his heart out and play defense but he can’t play 1 on 5 that said there are other lazy players on the Bulls that should be traded like lindsey hunter Jarome James Pargo Johnson and old man brad miller
by bullsfan24 on Feb 12, 2010 11:50 AM CST reply actions
yeah everyone who doesn't like kirk must be racists!
God I hate the “effort” argument almost as much as you accusing people of being racist.
by diedaily23 on Feb 12, 2010 12:08 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I'm white and I can't stand Hinrich.
Beasley spent the first two quarters like he was wondering through a forest.-Neil Funk
SoulEater you definitely hate regardless of race!
by diedaily23 on Feb 12, 2010 12:46 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
I'm not white, I like Kirk but not John Paxson's worship of him!
"I tried being reasonable, I didn't like it."
"Go ahead, make my day"
"We boil at different degrees"
"A good man always knows his limitations"
"You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?"
I am white and lighter haired than Kurt is,
and I still don’t like him.
We miss you, Ben Gordon!
by Granny Waiters on Feb 13, 2010 1:43 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Except for James Johnson who is on a cheap rookie contract,
all those guys expire at the end of the season.
the Bulls that should be traded like lindsey hunter Jarome James Pargo Johnson and old man brad millerJarome James Pargo Johnson and old man brad miller
We miss you, Ben Gordon!
by Granny Waiters on Feb 13, 2010 1:43 PM CST up reply actions
BG SUCKS
dats the difference between Ben Gordon who sucks and Hinrich. Hinrich a leader and Ben Gordon all about himself
by bullsfan24 on Feb 12, 2010 11:51 AM CST reply actions
Hinrich has never been a leader. He just mopes around. How has he ever led the team? Noah is a more of a leader in his 3rd year than Kirk has or will ever be.
by C Smoove on Feb 12, 2010 12:30 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Kirk is only
captain in name only.
by QUINTEN DALEY on Feb 12, 2010 12:37 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
you should go tell the other players
i hear they vote on this kind of stuff, not that ive yet to figure out the real relevency of having a captain on this team if not just for the title alone..
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Feb 12, 2010 12:43 PM CST up reply actions
He has
been playing crappy since the 07-08 season
by QUINTEN DALEY on Feb 12, 2010 2:55 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
not trying to be snarky or anything
but define leadership, give examples of noah doing so and give examples of when kirk failed to do the same…im just intrested to know if such an obvious criteria exists for establishing what is a leader and if i totally missed it in my bias…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Feb 12, 2010 12:42 PM CST up reply actions
there aren't any obvious criteria
other than comparing unestablished players to established players considered leaders and pin pointing specific similar traits.
don't let the bed bugs bite
by Rex Grossman on Feb 12, 2010 9:45 PM CST up reply actions
So what traits does Kirk lack?
And prove that he lacks these traits, which I expect will be hard to do seeing as you probably have no idea what he’s like behind closed doors.
thats kind of what i was getting at
I mean we know bosh and lebron and wade and chauncey are leaders because their leadership is talked about, you constantly get some media head or some coach or some players saying that those guys are great leaders…
You get the same thing from the bulls about hinrich. Talk to any player, and you get stuff about hinrich being a great leader, coaches say the same, and media heads usually say it too…
I watch noah play, and yea i can see him being a captain, he can definetly be a vocal captain it seems, yelling at guys to focus, he can lead by example it seems, when times get tough in a game, he visually just looks like he tries harder, dunks the ball with more oomph, yells and fires up anyone whos on his side. Hinrich doesnt yell, and if he does try harder, well it isnt as noticable as noah…but if you watch the guy, you see why he would be a captain…
its not so much in his own play, cuz ill readily admit, hinrich isnt a chauncey billups or baron davis like player who can hit tough shots when the going gets tough and turn the momentum. But he tries to do it sometimes, tries to make some kind of play outsmart the defense, those crazy shots when he just runs up the court and takes a 20 footer…thats where those shots come from. They arent smart, nor do they work as often as anyone would like, but there is a reason a guy who usually likes to dribble the ball and run plays and wait for guys to set up, suddenly decides he wants to take the ball as close as he can get to the opponents hoop and catch a guy off the dribble and take a shot.
He knows the plays, forget vdn and his simplistic high screen and roll, hinrich knew all of skiles plays. Skiles was an xo master, and hinrich knew that guys plays, constantly telling guys where they should be, i remember him scolding tyrus once for not knowing where he was supposed to be. Watch hinrich on defense, sure quick guys can beat him, strong guys can post him up, but thats not all defense. He knows how to play them, hes aware of his help, hes aware to help others. On the defensive end hinrich is spectacular but not in the way people would define defense with. Hes not stripping every guard he sees, or blocking any shot taken in front of him. but you see him try to move guys to certain spots, shades them,keeps them in a place where star players have to move, he attacks the moment the ball handler dazes off…i assure you, no o ne will tie thier shoes on hinrichs watch, he might not get the ball, but he wont let the play stop.
But i guess thats not being a leader or being a captain. Your captain should be ure best player, thats what fans say, Jordan was a captain…he was the best player, wade and bosh..captains…best players…chauncey might not be the best player, but hes one of the top 3 guys…hes a captain…hinrich might not be the 4 best player on this crap team, he cant be a captain..he just cant….
btw…amare wasnt a captain….and he was the second best player on his team….
is there some set criteria on what should be a captain, of course not, how do you quantify it? But get this, this team, the coaches, they constantly vote for hinrich to be a captain, i mean the guys who are on the team, willingly vote for hinrich to be a captain…absurd isnt it…rose called hinrich a leader…THE BEST PLAYER ON OUR TEAM…he called hinrich a leader…he had to have been just being nice right…
Cuz we know better than they do, we see the league and we see who we like as captains, forget what goes on at practices or behind the closed doors…
I agree that noah should be a captain, i think he works hard enough to deserve that title, but just like hinrichs worth…ultimately its not up to us to decide…in terms of being captain, the players actually have say….and they have consistently said that hinrich is a captain…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Feb 13, 2010 3:30 AM CST up reply actions 5 recs
He lead us to what promise land?
One second round exit that had more to do with Deng and Gordon? That’s garbage. Every superstar in this league is, to some extent, selfish, arrogant, a prima donna, etc. Gordon was a pro, and did what was asked of him. He was brought here to score, and score he did. Then he was kicked to the curb.
I hate posts like yours’. Instead of looking at leadership, look at who can play? Derrick is the best thing to happen to this team in a decade, and odds are he’ll never be the leader of this team. Who’d you rather have, Kirk or Derrick?
Kobe was an ass-bag as recently as two years ago, when he was caught via cell phone talking shit about Bynum, then demanding a trade. Gimme a break.
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.
But...But...
If Kirk is gone, who will do all the thrusting???
"YOU CAN'T TRADE
KIRK, HE’S THE CAPTAIN", I’m tired of people telling me that statement. Devin Brown will do the thrusting or maybe they get YMCA rec league scrub Brian Scalabrine in a trade to help w/ thrusting.
by QUINTEN DALEY on Feb 12, 2010 2:59 PM CST up reply actions
Well
As long as we have someone else to thrust, I’m ok with trading Kirk.
kingj
thats usually how things go in Chicago Jarome James is making over 1 million thats wasted money Lindsey Hunter is making about the same you have Johnson and Gibson the rookies which one would you keep I keep Gibson then theres old man Miller the problem with the Bulls they don’t have any strong centers only Noah thats the problem they need inside presents
by bullsfan24 on Feb 12, 2010 1:54 PM CST reply actions
I love this site.
Way to take things like kurt, attack, and thrusting and drive it into the ground so its not even remotely funny anymore. Also, by dumping Kirk and and signing two max contract free agents, does anyone realize the Bulls won’t be able to resign rose and noah when they are due for an extension?
How can you say that won't be able to resign Rose and Noah?
First of all, by that time there will be a new collective bargaining agreement which, as of now, nobody knows what it will be like. Secondly, even if it were the same, if we had two max free agents with Rose and Noah, it’s a reasonable to think that would be a contending team in the East and JR stated that he will pay the tax for a contender. Having two max free agents would not keep the Bulls from resigning Rose and Noah. Only JR deciding not to pay would stop that. So of course they would be able. Whether or not willing is a different story.
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
Get the 2 max FA
win 2 championships
Then decide what to do with Noah and Rose
If there is a hard cap – trade em
if its still soft use your bird rights to sign them and win a couple more championships.
Question about 2010
I had a question about the salary dump we’re currently attempting. If we dump all this salary now and Chris Bosh wants to do a sign and trade in the offseason (b/c it is my understanding he can get a bigger contract that way), will we have anything to trade back to toronto??
Souleater I can throw your dumbass in the lake if you want.
First off alot of you morons on here got no idea what a player is in the nba.How can you talk bad about kirk you say hes an underachiver..?? Dose he have good players around him to bring them to the next level UHHH Nooooo.Is he supposed to do it on his own..??As far him not being a great defender why do so many teams want him cause hes bad..?How many other players making the same money as him sitting on the bench? And there not even 1/2 as good as him.If you trade kirk whos gonna play guard ..?? Pargo..???If your gonna trade kirk it better be a better player at sf or shooting guard.
If were gonna trade people(dang,salmons,kirk,thomas) we need to bring in some talent and clear some space we aint going no were this year.And we also need to get a better coach cause vinny sucks and dosent no how to use the talent he has on this team.
Getting rid of Kirk helps us get better,
1st you trade him because his value is high, and you need the cap space.
2nd, his skills are declining, example look at James Posey and Peja, a declining Kirk is better off on a team that can win now, and not a team thats looking toward the future.
by QUINTEN DALEY on Feb 12, 2010 4:03 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
That all makes logical sense, but remember Paxson promised Kirk he would retire as a Bull
"I tried being reasonable, I didn't like it."
"Go ahead, make my day"
"We boil at different degrees"
"A good man always knows his limitations"
"You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?"
paxson can blow balls
don't let the bed bugs bite
by Rex Grossman on Feb 12, 2010 9:47 PM CST up reply actions
He can always come back
after his contract is up
by QUINTEN DALEY on Feb 16, 2010 10:23 AM CST up reply actions
Wow
Check yourself into a hospital please.
Beasley spent the first two quarters like he was wondering through a forest.-Neil Funk
eh
Kirk needs to go bye bye
He is a 2nd tier point guard that can still be serviceable on another team
Maybe Kirk shouldn’t be so willing to slide into the 2 guard, he likes to be a playmaker and theres nothing wrong with that
frankly how can he not demand to be traded to the lakers, where he could walk into a starting spot and defer to class team mates such as Kobe, Gasol, Odom, Artest etc
don't let the bed bugs bite
by Rex Grossman on Feb 12, 2010 9:39 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
No question Kirk would benefit professionally from a trade to the Lakers
There’s also little doubt in my mind that his personal numbers suffer to a degree from playing out of position.
Apparently, when he was growing up he always wanted to play for the Bulls. I don’t think anything short of a total benching would cause him to DEMAND a trade, even to the Lakers.
I still stand that Kirk had better court vision in his rookie/soph season...
than Derrick has so far. He took a dip in 07/08 and everybody hopped off the Kirk train.
Even today I think when Hinrich runs the point the Bulls offense looks more smooth than when Rose is at the one. When the ball isn’t in Derrick’s hand, he doesn’t know what to do, and usually just stands near the three point line waiting to bail out Deng or Salmons.
What happened to the Skiles days when our offense more resembled college offenses, when backscreens and swinging the ball were the bread and butter of this team?
Everybody who jumps on Hinrich for being terrible doesn’t understand the game, and has no idea what true fundamental basketball is. Kirk is a fundamental player. He doesn’t make athletic or flashy plays like Rose, but I still believe he’s a better passer. I get excited every time Rose threads the needle or dishes to the rolling big because it’s so rare (most of his assists come off jumpers, since the Bulls is stagnant off the ball), but Hinrich did it for the Bulls on a nightly basis, and still makes some unbelievable passes that unfortunately get no recognition because the rest of our team can’t finish. Plus he can shoot the three, and did so straight out of college. Even his numbers testify: Rose only gets 1.5 assists more a game playing 4 more minutes a game, with Hinrich as our shooting guard.
Defensively, Kirk is flat out better. The reason Rose doesn’t get posterized like Hinrich did is because Rose goes for the swipe, while Hinrich tries to take the charge.
I’m not saying that Kirk is better than Rose or is better for this team. I love Rose, and I think he’s the future of this franchise. I still want Hinrich to be traded because it may give us the opportunity to attract two stars.
But this fanpost should go to hell, because Hinrich isn’t a poster child of mediocrity or a hypocrite. It’s disrespectful and childish that you would say such things. It’s not that I don’t understand the humor, it’s that I don’t find it funny. At all.
"Freeze it!... now roll it!" -Stacey King, greatest analyst ever.
by WalmartSecurity on Feb 13, 2010 3:17 PM CST reply actions
I agree but he needs to leave
Hinrich had and still has better court vision than Derrick. He can run an offense smoothly, he overdribbles a lot(Heinrich manuever) but he can set up the offense. He was never great at getting guys the ball in the right spots, but he was decent at it. He was a good PG but his game has been declining for the last 3 seasons….you just can’t deny that.
I’m sorry but as a 3rd guard, 9 million is holding us back from trying to build a true contender. And Hinrich is far from a true SG, his shooting never bounced back from 2006. I like Kirk, he is an asset but at this point a .500 team can’t afford to keep a 9 mill utility combo guard.
Also wouldn’t you want Kirk to go to a title contender and not have to keep playing for a rebuilding team? I would figure all the super Kirk fans would want him to get a real chance to get ring before he gets too old.
I said I wanted to move Kirk too, mostly due to his contract
so we have a shot at getting two guys this summer.
However, if I was a one of the 2010 free agents I would want to play with 1) Rose 2) Noah and 3) Kirk, before any of the other guys. Deng, sorry to say, is a black hole. If I was Bosh or Stoudemire I would much rather play with two point guards.
If I was Wade or Lebron, though…seeya Kirk.
And yeah, part of me wants Kirk to get a ring. But I’m more of a Bulls fan than a Kirk fan, and contract aside, I really like what Kirk brings to this team.
"Freeze it!... now roll it!" -Stacey King, greatest analyst ever.
by WalmartSecurity on Feb 14, 2010 12:20 PM CST up reply actions
Remember Kobe
wanted to play w/ Deng, Deng is a better look to FA’s than Kirk
by QUINTEN DALEY on Feb 16, 2010 10:26 AM CST up reply actions
kirk got dunked on
this is true. but he delivered quite a sack-punch in the act. that’s my captain!
kirk got dunked on
this is true. but he delivered quite a sack-punch in the act. that’s my captain!
Kurt is delivering his worst offensive performance ever for a season:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hinriki01.html
We miss you, Ben Gordon!
That’s not really too surprising.
He IS playing out of position, and so routinely playing against big athletic SG’s. His ability to beat these players off the dribble is largely nutrilized by his inability to finish consistently at the hoop.
Yup
Anyone who’s been paying attention knows that the last time he shot this poorly from the field was when he was playing the 2 alongside Chris Duhon back in his 2nd year in the league.
All the more reason Kurt needs to go,
unless you want to keep him over Rose.
We miss you, Ben Gordon!
by Granny Waiters on Feb 14, 2010 4:58 PM CST up reply actions
rose and kirk CAN coexist on the same team
Just the way Rose kirk and ben gordon could have coexisted on a single team…Rose kirk and a good sg would make for a very formidable backcourt as it is. If it wasnt for the many uncertainties going into the offseason, i dont think there would be such a gigantic need to get rid of kirk hinrich. For example imagine if the bulls were guaranteed (hypothetically) to get a top 3 pick and at the same time it was confirmed that if they let tyrus walk and if salmons wasnt going to opt in after they signed this top 3 player (evan turner if not wall) they would still have the money to sign someone for the max (bosh) then yikes thats a good team
Rose/Hinrich
Turner/Hinrich
Deng/James Johnson
Bosh/Taj
Noah/filler
however if you notice thers alot of what ifs, and unknown factors and its because of such things that getting rid of a big contract (and hinrich being the best one to move due to demand and because he really is a luxury as opposed to a need) is so important by trade deadline. I get that, and thats why its hard for me to come up with reasons to keep hinrich even though i want the bulls to retain him.
I believe that if hinrich is moved its less to do with him sucking at basketball and more to do with the organization playing it safe and ensuring they are players in the offseason to create a formidable team…which IS what they should be doing. However there are individuals, not just on this blog but in terms of general public, that will consider it the utmost proof that hinrich sucks at basketball…and that to me is disheartning…ben gordon fans should know exactly how that feels.
My only hope is that if hinrich is traded he goes to the lakers, and they win their second (and hell give em a third) due to the addition of hinrich….
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
They might even trade Deng for expirings too.
No more ‘bad’ contracts, the Bulls will set a record next season for the least overpaid roster in NBA history…YAY! I’ll believe they get max FA’s when I see it. If they’re not willing to take a chance on overpaying for somebody in free agency they aren’t going to get anybody good anyway. They will definately have to show a different spirit in free agency then they have shown with personel moves over the last year.
Sorry for the negativity, I’m just tired of the Bulls continuously giving up talented players for players that aren’t as good(or for nothing) for some grand future plan that nobody even knows will work. They’re commited now, so hopefully my lack of confidence in Garpaxdorf will prove unwarranted.
I think Hinrich will be traded to the Lakers, since that’s the best fit. At least they’ll benefit. Hopefully the Bulls will too.
The personnel moves (notice 2 "n"s) they made over the past year were made to allow cap flexibility this year.
I never bought the argument that the Bulls were cheap. Jerry is more than willing to spend on FAs (exhibit A: Ben Wallace). Yes, he may be unwilling to pay the luxury tax when the Bulls aren’t in a position to contend, but so is every other owner in the league, save the Lakers and Knicks. When the Bulls are in a position to contend, he opens up the checkbook (the Bulls consistently had some of the highest payrolls in the league during the Jordan years).
Sorry about the lack of 2 "n"s…I understand how critical such matters are.
Why is it that when people disagree with something, they immediately attack typos and spelling errors?
Didn’t the Bulls dump Chandler’s contract to make room for Wallace under the cap? In other words, they just MOVED payroll, they didn’t really ADD significantly to it. In any case JR was not willing to risk paying the luxury tax , even on good young team that was on the rise. The Bulls have shown a willingness to spend on a championship caliber team, but not to BUILD a championship team. Even if their stated plan works out to the maximum (they sign 2 max FA’s) they will have actually LOWERED their payroll. If it works out this way, the persoNNel losses will have been worth it, but if they fall short then all they have is a reduced payroll because they still won’t be a contender.
Let’s say the Bulls get one max FA, and add a couple decent role players(which they will need after gutting the roster). Next year they win 50 games. Is that enough where JR will be willing to sign Noah to a long term contract, and be willing to make trades that would add salary to get them to the next level?
I highlight typos and spelling errors when I disagree with something because it makes the person who wrote the statement seem less intelligent, strengthening my argument.
You’re wrong. The Bulls did not dump Chandler’s contract to get under the cap. They had cap room, signed Ben Wallace, and traded Tyson because he didn’t really fit on a team that already had Ben. They moved him for PJ Brown, who had an expiring deal, which, in theory, would be an attractive bargaining chip to use in negotiations for a low-post threat (we all know how that worked out). JR was willing to risk paying the luxury tax on that team (if you don’t believe me, why did he overpay Andres Nocioni, knowing full well that that contract moved them significantly closer to the tax). The only problem was that the team fell apart before he was able to do that.
And spending to BUILD a championship team simply doesn’t work. If you believe me ask Isiah Thomas. Building a championship team involves acquiring a core of all-star caliber players through the draft, trades, and free agency (impossible to do without cap room) and then spending to add depth and retain those players.
If the Bulls sign their max FA and put together a contending team, I think JR will pay Noah and will be willing to spend for depth.
Maybe typos mean somebody isn’t a great typist? My inability to type perfectly at all times doesn’t strengthen your arguement at all.
On the other hand, reading comprehension MAY strengthen your arguement.
“Didn’t the Bulls dump Chandler’s contract to get under the cap?”
The punctuation mark at the end of this sentence indicates that this is a QUESTION. A statement would end with a period, or an exclamation point.!
Now if you’re willing to stop being an ass, I am willing to do the same.
Whether Chandler was traded before or after Wallace was signed is not really relevant. What is relevant is that he was traded for an EXPIRING contract which almost by definition leads to you receiving a lesser player than you are giving up. Why couldn’t the Bulls try to trade CHANDLER for a low post threat, rather than just let Brown expire. It saved them $$$, that’s why.
The question is not whether the Bulls will pay an individual at or above the league average. Obviously they did this with Nocioni, Deng, Hinrich, and Wallace. The question is whether they are willing to retain a number of such contracts SIMULTANEOUSLY in order to maintain and increase their talent base. Much of the angst about players like Gordon or Hinrich has been based on the idea that you can’t pay $10mil./YR for a player who projects to be a 6th man, or $9mil./YR for a 3rd guard, IF J.R. REFUSES TO PAY ANY LUXURY TAX UNTIL THE BULLS ARE A CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM. To continue trading useful players for cap relief, or letting them go for cap relief
is not a way to build a solid core. You need 6th men and 3rd guards too, not just stars. How would the Bulls dynasty teams have been without strong supporting players?
Just throwing money at the problem will not build you a championship team. Isiah is certainly proof of that. Not being willing to spend money to retain and add to your talent base CAN prevent you from building a championship team though.
I hope you are right, As I said, it is a question of whether the Bulls will spend when they need to. I’m not saying I’m certain they won’t. I’m just not convinced they will.
I was kidding about the spelling thing...
Other than that, I really don’t think I was being an ass. I was just responding to your inferences on what the Bulls would or would not do, stating that I think you’re wrong. In any case, I think JR eventually would’ve signed off on a BG extension if it appeared that that team was going anywhere. And also, once it became clear that the summer of 2010 would kind of be a big deal, things changed dramatically.
You’re statement about needing 6th men and 3rd guards is correct. However, the way the NBA is set up, it’s a lot easier to acquire those guys after putting together your core than the other way around.
There are basically two main ways of acquiring all-star caliber talent: the draft and free agency (yes there are also trades, but in most cases you can’t trade for all-star talent without giving up all-star talent). Now getting a franchise player in the draft involves sucking ass for a year and getting a high lottery pick. If you stock your team with good-but-not-great players (the 6th men and 3rd guards you speak of), you won’t suck enough to get a high lottery pick, unless you get really really lucky (Derrick Rose). Now free agency: obviously, in order to get a top player through free agency, you need to have cap room. If you fill your team with good-but-not-great players, you’re not gonna have cap room.
Now on the other hand once you put together a core of top talent, it’s still possible to add the role players that you need to win a championship. Role players can still be found in the middle-to-late portion of the draft (Taj Gibson, DeJuan Blair). And teams over the cap can still add medium-quality FAs with the MLE.
Fair enough. I guess I’m a little aggravated about all this.
They let BG go, ok I don’t like it but they have a “plan”. But wait a minute, now they have to let Tyrus go, and Kirk. I didn’t know they were going to have to do all this for the “plan”, now I’m even less happy with it. I started to get adjusted to this new reality, and now they’re talking about dumping Deng TOO. I mean what the hell, how many free agents do they think they’re going to get? Who’s going to play? Will it be Rose, Noah, and a bunch of crap the rest of the season?
Deep down I suppose as a fan I feel a certain degree of attachment to the old core that raised the Bulls out of the horror show that was the early 2000’s. When the Bulls got Rose I thought they were adding a potential star to a team with some pretty good players already. I didn’t think at that time they might get rid of them ALL. Maybe they have to do it, and maybe it’s for the best, but it still sucks. I guess that’s why I’m a fan and not a GM. Everything will be great if their plan works, but it just seems like a lot to give up for a CHANCE at a star player.
Nobodys talking about giving up deng except for a few idiots on this site
I get where you’re coming from. I too have a strong attachment to Kirk, bg, deng, noc and the guys from the bulls teams of the past few years that finally got us back to the playoffs and looked like they’d be able to cotend. However, those guys just weren’t as good as we thought they were and weren’t able to take that proverbial next step. So now we have to tear down and build a new core.
Kirk is going to go, that should be enough for you.
Now I get to be treated to the spectacle of the Bulls having sacrificed BG, and Kirk to retain John Salmons!!! My feelings about JR’s cheapness are not the kind of thing I would openly express to such civilized folks as congregate here. If they can get a max FA, and are going to be willing to spend $$$ on Noah and Rose, then all is forgiven, but untill then…
Fairness demands if Gordon and TT fans get the shaft,
Hinrich fans share in the pain also.
We miss you, Ben Gordon!
by Granny Waiters on Feb 15, 2010 6:02 PM CST up reply actions
i wish
there was a YouTube vid on Kurt getting absolutely destroyed and demolished by Cuttino Mobley a few years back…one of my fav anti-Kurt moments.
Goodbye Mr Hinrich…you won’t be missed
by NormVanBeer on Feb 15, 2010 2:03 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
you have a favorite anti-kurt moment?!
yikes!!
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
First off, he will be missed, by a me if nobody else
Second, how the hell do you call yourself a Bulls fan if you enjoy watching a player on the Bulls getting burned? Honestly.
Bye Kirk
Good luck. You’re a solid player! Thanks for the effort
Vinny...you look confused
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