A veredict on Deng
by JustAnotherFan on Feb 10, 2010 6:13 AM CST
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PrintLess talked about but almost as controversial as Tyrus Thomas these days is Luol Deng's contract
Personally I like him. Deng is by far the most consistent Bull and his numbers may not be those of a Superstar but he brings 18 points (with decent FG%), 7.5 rebounds, 1 block, 1 steal. Add the fact he is still a few years from his prime and we got a nice piece to a great team. He has the potential to get Scottie Pippen's numbers (he's not that far). As one sports writer recently said he's having a year as good as 06-07 which earned him his contract.
Of course he has his flaws too. He's needs to pass the ball more often (he's not a bad passer but holds too much the ball and looks to shoot first - which is something the Chicago needed him to do when he joined the team). He also isn't very quick (can one really work on that?) and that turn in some difficulties on defense. I don't see him as bad defender as he can steal, block and use his body but he has trouble against more athletic SF. Also, I do understand the Organization gave him a huge salary. But If he's not worthy all of it at least the most part of it and - as I said - he could improve. Considering we have Rose, I don't see why we should give him away when he adds more than Hinrich and we don't have a nice sub for him.
I wrote this trying to understand all the hate about Luol Deng. Some of the guys here suggest we dump the guy. I would not put him in the untreadable block, but dump him? Hell no! But that's my opinion. I'd like to hear yours.
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Ah! Before you start smacking me in the head
I said Pippen’s numbers. A game is more than numbers. And as I remember it that was what the Org. wanted when they drafted him.
I don't know if there's really that much hate on here
But we have needs and Luol would be fantastically great if say Tyrus became that power 4 we hoped we’d get, as Luol’s a premier 3rd option in this league, a consistent 17-19 pt scorer who can get you 7 boards, a block, and a steal and play above average defense and is still young.
The reason why I think we should try to trade him is that we’d be better served with a legitimate 4 on this team, a back to the basket 4 to ease the pressure off of our guards, and well Deng’s the most tradable asset save for Rose we have…..and thus the guy we’d have to include if we make a run for a Bosh, Boozer (or Wade) along with expirings or youth….
That’s all. Had Tyrus filled in the 4 role like we thought or if we’re able to retain Deng and get under enough for a run at a max guy this summer, then we’re legitimate title threats for years to come and Deng’s undeservedly rough reputation will take a big leap back to where it was a few years ago. He’s good, just not great.
I wish he could put up 30 pts on any given night, and while he can give us big quarters, I don’t know if he’s scored 30 once this season, and he’s done it only a handful of times int he past….I think he should be fully capable, but Luol tends to take Luol out of the game offensively….which is frustrating and continues to keep him back.
Sadly....through thick and thin....
Agreed.. it's not hate
Just better options out there, and they need to shed salary to get one of those options.
by Grinder in Training on Feb 10, 2010 8:29 AM CST up reply actions
I don't understand...
Why someone would want to create a hole in order to fill another one…
The way I see it, the Bulls need two positions, in this order…PF and SG…there is no need to trade a solid SF to fill those needs….
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
How do you not understand..
Bosh, Johnson, Wade, LeBron are all much better then Luol Deng. There is a need to trade the solid SF to get the elite talent. Do you understand how the salary cap works? If so, then you would understand why Deng needs to go (I’d suggest in a sign and trade in the summer, not the trade deadline, but either way is fine).
If you are digging a small hole with a shovel and filling it with a large dump truck, the hole doesn’t matter.
It’s not like I’m saying get rid of deng to sign a comparable player. Luol Deng is good at basketball, the guys that they would like to sign or trade for are great at basketball.
There is a need to trade that SF if you want to fill both the PF and SG position with superior players. People need to stop settling for good. This is the Chicago Bulls, we’re not the Charlotte Bobcats.
by Grinder in Training on Feb 10, 2010 9:53 AM CST up reply actions
Whoa? Really?
Deng is better than Hinrich and Salmons. Create those holes first. Unless you don’t understand the salary cap.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
I'm suggesting you get rid of all of them.
Hinrich / Salmons now. Deng in a sign in trade this summer, that way you can get two of the bigger free agents.
by Grinder in Training on Feb 10, 2010 11:27 AM CST up reply actions
Yes..
That’s why you trade Deng for one instead.
by Grinder in Training on Feb 10, 2010 1:43 PM CST up reply actions
Which they do..
Trading him is shedding salary.
Everyone of my posts that expands on my point afterwards explains that. I don’t think it’s possible to sign two FA’s (yes financially if all goes right, it is technically possible, I just don’t believe it will happen) which I made clear below, so I believe the best thing to do is shed salary now (Hinrich & Salmons), so you can sign an elite FA, and then trade Deng (shedding salary in the process) for another max contract player in the summer. Then you’ll have money left over to fill out the rest of your roster and still have Rose, Noah and two max contract players.
by Grinder in Training on Feb 10, 2010 2:02 PM CST up reply actions
Obviously
Anyone would rather create Hinrich and Salmons wholes first. Hell I was saying if we could get under the cap and make a run while retainig Deng, that would easily be the best solution.
The problem is that with 2010 looming it’s harder than ever to trade Kirk right now. THe Lakers are the best choice, but I think Chicago would rather trade Kirk for all expirings if they’re going that route (And not take on Sasha Vujacic’s $5M or more for a far inferior player into next season), and well….I don’t think Boston’s tradeing Ray Allen to us unless we include a Noah, etc….as other team’s have better options. And the lakers and Boston probably don’t want to pay $18M for Kirk with the luxury tax even if it’s likely (more likely for the Lakers) that Kirk seals a title….
Trading Kirk or Salmons is most preferred, yes….but harder to do.
And getting say a Wade or Bosh either as a fa signee outright or more likely sign and trade post season using Deng, will be great either way as we could then keep Salmons and move him to his more natural SF position where he’ll be better.
Deng’s a lower top 10 SF, Salmons is a perhaps top 25 SF more or less (though when he played the SF spot he looked a lot better last year, so who knows), but Salmons is older….
But ultimately who care’s….getting a premier player is the goal, if we have to lose Deng (a solid player) for an upper crust player, that’s good and will make us better.
Sadly....through thick and thin....
I don't understand...
Because the three best players on this team are Rose, Deng and Noah…they are all quite young and entering their primes…conveniently, they play different positions…so, with those three key pieces in place, that leaves 11 other players on the roster that should be traded before those three if the team is looking to dump salary.
I get your point, if you could trade Luol for Bosh, Lebron or Wade, you do it in a moment…my point, you don’t trade a solid player for cap space for the chance at signing one of those guys…doing so creates a deficit at a position where the team currently has a positive, with no guarantee that any star will be joining the team…
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
by Dionysus2.0 on Feb 10, 2010 10:54 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Obviously you don't trade him for nothing
But if those free agents are available, they are clearly superior players, so you go for them.
I don’t want good players.. I want great ones. I’d much rather fail going for it all then be a 4 seed for the next decade.
by Grinder in Training on Feb 10, 2010 11:29 AM CST up reply actions
You didn't address his main point
which is that there is no reason to advocate trading Deng. There are only three players on the Bulls that are long term, above average pieces and Deng is one of them.
The 3 of Rose, Deng, and Noah will cost just over 20 million next year. If you got rid of everyone else, you could theoretically pay 2 people the max and fill out the rest with minimum salaried players.
To recap: Deng is a good player. You do not need to get rid of Deng to get additional good players. So why would you advocate getting rid of Deng, when you should be advocating getting rid of everyone else instead?
Vinny: "[Thrust] means pace, it means getting the ball out, it means getting your back to the sidelines, it means extending your outlets, it means getting the ball up the court into our early offense with plenty of time."
I would say
Deng is better than Noah too at this point…..but Noah’s huge leap from the start of last year to this year has me wondering that….
Sadly....through thick and thin....
I don't know if it really matters who is better
Noah plays center, harder to find than a SF.
Also, Noah’s contract is obviously much smaller right now, so Noah is the better use of the Bulls limited (by the salary cap) resources.
by Grinder in Training on Feb 10, 2010 1:10 PM CST up reply actions
I don't really disagree with what you said
But wanted to put that out there, that’sa ll.
Sadly....through thick and thin....
Because I think we will be hard pressed to sign two FA's
And he’s very attractive in a sign and trade b/c as many have said, he is young and talented, just not as talented as some of the players he could be traded for.
Also, if you are trading Deng’s salary in a deal for the better player, that frees up a little salary space to fill out the rest of your roster.
If we get Lebron though, I’d rather keep Deng.. and just let Taj or someone else average play PF. Really depends on what FA’s we can get.
I guess in my mind, I think Joe Johnson is the most realistic FA for the Bulls to sign. Then you do a sign and trade with Toronto for Bosh. If you can just sign Bosh straight up, go for it and then you can figure out the rest later.
Ideally, keeping Deng is fine if you can get rid of everyone else, and sign two FA’s, but I just believe that is unrealistic, we’ve had enough trouble signing just one FA, let alone two big names. So sign one FA and trade him for another superior player, and then fill his hole with a veteran looking for a ring or an energy / defense first type.
by Grinder in Training on Feb 10, 2010 1:07 PM CST up reply actions
did you know deng is from a place called Wow, Sudan?
So Deng is: The Man From Wow. thats nice.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
Good, just not great
is the correct label for Deng. In my option I think the Bulls should keep Deng, his contract is fair, it’s not like the guy makes max money or anywhere close to it. Most nights he wins his match-up and he is big for a SF and a good rebounder. His weakness is that he isn’t quick and he has limited range but his shot can improve and at least he is aggressive. Also as you stated he is young and with Rose and Noah thats three starters who are championship level talents under the age of 25.
I agree that the Bulls need a big man who can score. If they can land Bosh in the off season ( who is also young 26 I think) that would be a nice fit. But trading Deng just for more cap space is a bad move in my option, there is no guarantee any free agent is coming to Chicago.
by Winston23 on Feb 10, 2010 9:14 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Anyone who doesn't want Hinrich gone
Is an idiot.
by Grinder in Training on Feb 10, 2010 9:54 AM CST up reply actions 9 recs
i dont want hinrich gone
but i can see how his leaving might be the best for the team…i emphasis might…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Feb 10, 2010 11:05 AM CST up reply actions
How would it not be?
I think is the question you need to ask yourself.
Sure, maybe we strike out on the free agents, but are we any worse off? There is no difference between being a mediocre 6 seed and out of the playoffs, you’re either the champions or you’re not.
With Hinrich, we’re not going to be champions, without Hinrich, we could be. That should remove any doubt you might have.
by Grinder in Training on Feb 10, 2010 12:35 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
physically having
hinrich on this team does not lessen our chances of winning a championship. he is a good defender and average shooting guard. he can be a solid backup 1/2 guard on any championship team. but his salary is not commensurate with a backup type guard, and it’s crippling to cap space. so i agree with you that hinrich’s SALARY needs to be shed in order to bring in the talent to win a championship.
if you’re talking about the bulls shedding hinrich’s salary, and then losing out in free agency, and being stuck with the likes of a pargo/hunter as a primary backup guard - then in that instance, i don’t see hinrich leaving as best for the team. if given the choice between having hinrich on this team and struggling for a 6th seed, or being competely OUT of the playoffs, i think most will opt for the 6th seed.
"The word ‘potential’ doesn’t mean much to me. You have to maximize your skills and ability. Potential is just a smokescreen. You have to prove you’re real in order to earn all the praise." - Tyrus Thomas
Obviously.
I’m not saying Kirk Hinrich’s ability to play basketball is what keeps us from winning a championship, he could easily win one with LA this year if he was moved there. He is plenty skilled enough at basketball to help a team that has elite talent win a championship, I don’t think anyone is questioning his ability.
I thought it was a given that it is his contract that would preclude us from winning a championship. Deng, Salmons & Hinrich all bring something positive to the court, that most teams could use. We are just in the position where cap room is more valuable to us than what their play is. That’s all.
by Grinder in Training on Feb 10, 2010 1:01 PM CST up reply actions
Hmm.. I guess we just look at it very differently.
For me, no difference between fourth place and last. And honestly, I might rather go for last b/c it means I won’t get invested in the team, or care if they lose. If I don’t think my team has a chance of winning the championship, which in basketball, only the elite teams really do, I am just not interested.
It’s fun to watch Rose and Noah grow up right now even though we won’t win anything this year just because there is a light at the end of the tunnel, but if I knew Deng, Hinrich and Salmons were all coming back, it’d be very hard for me to enjoy.
by Grinder in Training on Feb 10, 2010 1:47 PM CST up reply actions
Watch the wizards for an extended period of time
And tell me there’s no difference between them and say… the hawks
Hawks are a very good, young, growing team
and have one of the superstars (Johnson) that I think makes a team potentially good enough to win a championship. Basically the things that I said would make it fun to watch, so that’s not really a fair example.
Charlotte would be a much better example.. a .500 team, or Chicago if they don’t make the moves necessary to become an elite team. At that point, yes, there would be no difference for me, because I wouldn’t watch either.
That’s just how I feel, I don’t have any interest in watching mediocre basketball. I’d rather watch Lakers, Nuggets, and Cavs games with no rooting interest, to see the best players in the world, than a .500 team.
I wouldn’t root for a different team, but I don’t have to watch my own be average, there’s no enjoyment in that for me. If I don’t think we can win a championship, I just don’t care about the outcome of the games.
by Grinder in Training on Feb 10, 2010 2:13 PM CST up reply actions
i third the might
Why aren't they selling Rose's all star jersey?
What is a veredict?
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
by Dionysus2.0 on Feb 10, 2010 9:36 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Deng would be a bargain at $10 mil
but overpriced at $14 mil.
Everyone likes Luol, but they dont like his contract.
its a good thing he doesnt make 14M then.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
no, youre wrong again. stop being wrong. 13M in 2013, 14 M in 2014.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
He's overpaid
Odom is a better player and signed for $2M less.
by hitlesswonder on Feb 10, 2010 11:20 AM CST up reply actions
Odom understands the value
of playing for a contender. He could afford a lower salary, he makes up for it in other ways I’m sure.
by JockstrapNoah on Feb 10, 2010 11:45 AM CST up reply actions
Like that Taco Bell commercial...
National endorsements = $$$
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
by Dionysus2.0 on Feb 10, 2010 12:04 PM CST up reply actions
Deng's also what
5-7 years younger….there’s value in his age that makes up for that $2M gap….
Plus the value of playing for a contender that was already mentioned.
Sadly....through thick and thin....
Odom also took a discount to stay in LA so Kobe and Pau would be able to sign extensions.
If he wanted money, he could have easily left.
Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 10, 2010 2:27 PM CST up reply actions
No way Deng is worth 10m+ in this environment.
Lee signed for 8m and Odom for about the same this offseason. Those are two players that are clearly better than Deng.
Also remember that Luol is playing better than usual and he’s fully healthy now.
I have nothing against him as a player, he’s a solid player. But with this cap environment, he ends up being like many, somewhat overpaid. If we were a luxury team or Deng’s contract didn’t go from 10.3 to 11.3 to 12.3 to 13.3 to 14.3 over the next few years, it wouldn’t be as big of a deal.
As it stands, how much do we really lose by putting Salmons in at SF if we get to upgrade an extra position? The difference between Deng and Salmons is much less than Hinrich and Joe Johnson in my mind, or Taj and David Lee.
If we dump Deng for expirings, it’s much easier to sign two of these guys.
And Vinny will never tell Deng to stop taking that horrid mid range jumper. If he didn’t tell Tyrus to stop taking it, Luol will be taking it to the grave. It always goes back to Vinny. If only we had a coach with a clue. Not that it’s always the answer, some players may not listen, but we need to give ourselves a good chance of getting these guys playing the correct way, encouraging bad mid range shooters to take that horrible shot is not a good start.
Lee signed his deal before he rook that next step forward
And I wouldn’t call him that much better than deng. And I wouldn’t call odom better than deng at all. And how much do we lose with salmons instead of deng? A lot.
by Poloplaya14 on Feb 10, 2010 11:21 AM CST up reply actions
Seen Odom play in big games recently?
He’s much better than Deng. He also doesn’t need the people around him to create, he usually takes people inside strong and hard and gets whatever he wants when he’s pushing hard.
But it wasn’t always like that. Deng can be that player too. Maybe it’s management not encouraging aggression. Maybe they encourage his mid range shot too much.
You give just about any guy in the NBA the freedom to take the mid range shot at will, he’ll take it every time.
But even if you consider Lee and Odom equal to Deng (I think it’s clear they are more valuable), neither made near 10m this offseason. The cap is only shrinking, even if Lee gets 10-12 mil after this year, that’s cheaper than Deng will be in 1-2 years, and his salary only goes up a mil each year.
It’s not even that the Bulls made a bad contract for him. It’s just the economics of the NBA. As much as I’d love to have a slightly improved and healthy Deng, it’s scary to think that we will be paying him 14 mil in 3 years. If player salaries take even a 20% hit, that’s equal to somebody making 17 mil in 2014’s climate. That’s a lot to overcome to make Deng worth his contract. A hell of a lot.
The numbers show that Deng is clearly a much more efficient scorer
Odom does some things better, namely rebounding and passing, but Deng’s more athletic, and, consequently, a better perimeter defender. Now Odom is capable of playing the 4 effectively, while Deng really isn’t (contrary to VDN’s belief), but I still think Deng’s a better player overall.
by Poloplaya14 on Feb 11, 2010 12:02 AM CST up reply actions
Lee did 16 and 12 last season.
He’s doing 20 and 11 now.
He was legit last year.
And I was wrong, he only makes 7 mil this year. Other teams could’ve tendered him an offer last offseason. Why didn’t they? NY would’ve had the right to match, but could they have matched even 4 years at 32 million? 5 years at 40 million? I’m not so sure. Too many people with cap room were focused on the big free agents. We could’ve saved ourselves some bucks I think, and if the plan for Tyrus was “wait a year then let him go” then we should’ve absolutely gone after Lee this offseason. But I don’t think the org ever has a real plan.
They didn't because nobody had cap space a year ago.
And his offensive game has improved from last year.
by Poloplaya14 on Feb 10, 2010 11:59 PM CST up reply actions
Lee signed a 1 year deal for $8m
As a 1 year prove yourself rental because team’s didn’t ahve cap. He’ll be asking for quite a bit more….
I wonder if Lee is the 2nd coming of Troy Murphy…..
Sadly....through thick and thin....
by majoyenrac on Feb 10, 2010 12:30 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I thought about that yesterday
only minus the 3’s. Their games are very similar otherwise though.
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
i hate to bring up the race thing again, 'cause i did last night and our leader rightly redacted that
conversation, but lee is white and murphy is white and they are both big, efficient offensive players and good rebounders. but lee takes 52% of his shots close to the basket, while murphy takes 25% around the basket. thats a big difference in playing styles. they are not the same player. and lee has added a bit to his game this year. his passing has improved to the degree that he sometimes plays almost a point PF for new york. we cannot say the same about murphy.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
I don't think race has anything to do with it
Both are very good rebounders and yes Lee is a better passer. Both would be good pick and pop players who can make the jumpshot. Lee is more mobile and athletic than Murphy so he does roll to the hoop more often on the pick and roll and get points on fastbreaks. Neither plays back to the basket. Murphy shoots a ton of 3’s though, which is the big difference. But Lee does shoot a lot of pick and pop jumpers from what I’ve seen.
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
Obviously the white thing makes it easier to compare
But I was more thinking because they are high rebound decent scoring bigs who can’t play much defensively and will be earning similar dollars soon…..
THe white thing was secondary, though I liked your point on where the FGA come from.
Sadly....through thick and thin....
Deng is overpaid
A players value to the team is given by both what he does on the floor and what his contract allows the team to do in acquiring other talent.
He’s not a bad player. He can board, he can play decent defense, and he’s probably the best shooter the Bulls have (certainly from midrange). He’s made some strides this year taking 3s and posting up. On the flip side, he has a terrible handle, can’t get his own shot, doesn’t pass much, and has health issues.
He’s overpaid. Salmons at the 3 gives you a modest dropoff in performance for $5M less next year, and no committed years after. So, I’d say Deng is pretty significantly overpaid.
Also I’m not sure he’s a good fit with Rose. Although, I will say that could be due to coaching. It’s interesting that I have not seen Deng much as the pick and roll or pop partner for Rose. It seems like he would be better equipped for that than Noah or Gibson….
I think Deng's
Playing much much better as a fit with Rose. I had my doubts after the crap of last year, but Deng’s play is definitely not a problem.
If we didn’t have Hinrich (luxury) or Salmons optin concerns—which of themselves would be a nice to have luxury had the salary cap not fallen….we’d be ecstatic with Luol.
Add in that other players generally like him, he’s good for the community, and still really young….and those are key reasons to keep him if posible.
But given the climate, I think we’ll be hard pressed to trade Kirk until post 2010 FA class….and that’s why Deng might be an unfortunate (call it perhaps a James Johnson casualty—NOT SURE THE #‘S, but it would seem Johnson’s craptitude is causing us issues next year) in our plans for a max fa….
Sadly....through thick and thin....
never grouped Deng in with Hinrich or the dead-money on this team
if we dealt Deng for expirings, we’d be trying for years to find another Deng. Could maybe get something similar for cheaper, but it’s not worth the risk.
It becomes more dicey when you consider his health, the cap declining, and not paying the tax. But he’s been healthy this year, and lets all face it: if we don’t pay the tax we’ll never win anything anyway, so I can’t worry about that.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2010 11:24 AM CST reply actions
re: tax
that’s under the current setup, which obviously will be changing. I’m not sure if whatever changes the owners want to implement will hurt or help the Bulls chances at winning. On the one hand it’d force other big markets to spend small like they do. On the other hand an even playing field means that smart front offices would have more of an advantage.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2010 11:26 AM CST up reply actions
Stern on Simmons and cap
Who knows if its posturing, but listened to David Stern on Simmons podcast today and he said the original idea of softcap, which he and the owners supported, was to not force teams to break up. The idea of instituting a hard cap PLUS drastically reduced maxes, etc., while also having existing contracts in place just doesn’t seem to work.
So I wonder how teams like the Bulls are factoring in the labor agreement with their plans today?
Bulls front office discussing the potential effects of the labor negotiations:
Gar Forman: A, B, C, D…X, Y, Z. Now I know my ABCs, next time won’t you sing with me?
Paxson: Damn it Gar, I said study the CBA, not ABCs.
by Poloplaya14 on Feb 10, 2010 1:28 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
If we had Bosh and Joe Johnson / Wade or less likely Lebron and whoever
I don’t think we’d be too concerned about Luol Deng or finding his replacement. We’d be looking for a mediocre SF to stay out of our superstar’s way and play defense and board. Those types aren’t hard to find.
by Grinder in Training on Feb 10, 2010 11:33 AM CST up reply actions
Hinrich
is the easier player to move, the player that should be moved, I don’t know where this Hinrich love came from, but the man is on the decline, imagine him at 30,31,32. His value is high, get rid of him.
by QUINTEN DALEY on Feb 10, 2010 12:08 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
How easy is it to move Kirk
Kirk’s the biggest luxury on our team (though he is far underrated as oddly even if he seems to do little our team does seem to do better when he’s out there)….
But who wants him in this uncertain climate with 2010 looming?
Lakers aren’t gonna pay 2x for Kirk
Boston ain’t gonna give us Ray ALlen to help us next year for Kirk, and we don’t want their garbage….
And well…..that seems about it….
Sadly....through thick and thin....
yeah, I worry about finding a similar too
As a Wade or similar with a empty team doesn’t win titles as shown by Miami
by JustAnotherFan on Feb 10, 2010 8:08 PM CST up reply actions
I totally disagree with youe first sentence
I don’t think we’d be trying for years to find another Deng because I don’t think that Deng is a great fit with Rose. I’d like to see Rose with a SF like Hedo Turkolu. A SF that not only can shoot the open 3 consistently which I admit that lately Deng has done lately but also dribble and make plays for other open teammates when he receives the ball from Rose which Deng can’t do.
Luol Deng
might be overpaid, but he’s very very far from a bad contract. There are so many bad contracts out there that if you slightly over pay for a good player, you really can’t complain about it.
Bad contracts
Rashard Lewis, Jason Maxiel, Hedou, Peja, Tyson Chandler, Samuel Dalembert, Elton Brand, Corie Maggette.
by QUINTEN DALEY on Feb 10, 2010 12:11 PM CST up reply actions
Maggette of late though
Is playing surprisingly great for a team that’s been so riddled with injuries.
Sadly....through thick and thin....
deng is hard to love
Long time troller, 1st post. I think there’s a reason it’s hard to come to a verdict on Deng. He delivers a consistent performance almost any night, his numbers are always strong (but never eye-popping) and nobody could say he doesn’t help the team win. But somehow, even on those infrequent occasions when he hits a much-needed shot or comes through on a key play, I never feel thrilled, more like tacit approval. The man has no charisma whatsoever. This is a phenomenon totally unrelated to his oversized contract.
I mostly watch the game from a fan’s perspective (rather than a GM’s). Basically this means I want to love everyone on the squad as much as Rose and Noah. So why is Deng so hard to root for? I think if he wasn’t our #2 scorer and could fade into the background (while still doing what he does) alongside Rose and another star, we wouldn’t be asking ourselves for a “verdict”, we’d just be glad to have him.
ball.
by headphones on Feb 10, 2010 12:08 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
hmmm interesting perspective
And you can see that on the news. Sometimes he puts the best numbers and others make the headlines
by JustAnotherFan on Feb 10, 2010 8:11 PM CST up reply actions
So you're saying people hate him because he lacks charisma?
How bout we just be glad he’s not throwing haymakers into the crowd like Ron Artest?
by Poloplaya14 on Feb 11, 2010 12:04 AM CST up reply actions
Deng hasn't given us any reason to hate him.
You’ve gotta be bitter to hate Deng. I’m not saying we throw a parade in his honor, but come on. What’s there to hate him for? His lack of superstardom? His game has flaws, but look around the league…you could do a lot worse. Mad because he’s overpaid? Then hate every pro athlete, they all are. If he’d signed somewhere else after his 1st contract was up, no matter what we’re paying him now, there’d be people on here still harping about it. Bet on that.
ball.
And
we ought to be happy he not laying bricks like the Captain, or getting burned by TJ Ford and Jameer Nelson on consecutive nights
by QUINTEN DALEY on Feb 11, 2010 9:44 AM CST up reply actions
I think you mean "lurker", not "troller".
Long time troller, 1st post.
We miss you, Ben Gordon!
by Granny Waiters on Feb 12, 2010 7:17 PM CST up reply actions
Here's the problem (at least from my perspective)
Luol Deng is a good player. He’s not great, but he is a good player and he has been put in the position that a great player should be in. His contract really only seemed so horrible because they let BG walk and gave him the deal, he’s been hurt quite a bit the last couple seasons and he has been put into the role of trying to be the main guy, which he isn’t.
Well, this year, Rose has stepped up to assume main guy status and Deng has been healthy. He’s played well as a #2 scorer and really, hasn’t totally vanished from games (like he used to), which was my main beef. I didn’t think he was a good fit next to Rose, but lately he has been shooting more 3’s and also cutting to the hoop more.
If we can get a true #1 scorer, he will be one of the better 3rd wheels in the league. No hate from my end at this point. He deserves credit for playing well so far this season.
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
Even though I'm not a huge fan, I have to admit Deng is better than I thought he was
And any rational look at the Bulls shows that Kirk’s contract is the one that needs to be moved. The Bulls have a point guard. I don’t know about anyone else, but I’m not a fan of Kirk being the starting 2 guard for the next couple of years. That leaves him as the #3 guard and he’s paid too well for that job.
So I’m more than OK with dumping Kirk and/or Salmons for expiring deals.
by hitlesswonder on Feb 10, 2010 2:45 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Yep that is who needs to go.
Deng only needs to be included in a package for a better player. He is only 24 years old and puts up 18 and 7. He plays good defense and is big for a SF at 6-9. Only Bulls fans would want to dump this man for expiring contracts lol. Hinrich and Salmons need to go, so we can pursue (2) top free-agents this off-season.
Like I have said numerous times if the cap is 54 to 55 million, we would have 31 to 33 mill next off-season. That is more that enough to sign a Max and near Max contract people, no need to dump Deng.
Wade 2010!!!!!
One positive about trading Deng for expiring contracts
The organization would have finally made a move that is not conservative and they would have to bring in new talent. The downside is that I don’t trust them not to bring in someone worse.
by hitlesswonder on Feb 10, 2010 9:10 PM CST up reply actions
But why do it when we don't have to?
We can in no way afford (3) max-type players. Dump Salmons, Tyrus and Kirk and we can get (2) to play with Rose, Deng and Noah.
PG Rose
SG Wade
SF Deng
PF Boozer
C Noah
We trade Deng who is gonna play the SF postion JJ?
Wade 2010!!!!!
I wasn't suggesting 3 max players(!?).
I’m just saying that if the bulls can’t get anyone to take Kirk or Salmons that I would not be upset seeing Deng traded for expirings. I’d much rather see Kirk and/or Salmons moved.
by hitlesswonder on Feb 11, 2010 12:57 PM CST up reply actions
It's amazing how the Bulls organization simultaneously overvalues its players...
….while encouraging the fans to have a disdain for the players because they aren’t “perfect.”
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Their love
for Hinrich is costing us.
by QUINTEN DALEY on Feb 11, 2010 9:47 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I "like" Hinrich
But he (and Taj) get so much undeserved love. Btw I “like” Taj but I know what he is (a bench player) the only way he should start is if we had 4 players at an all star level in the same starting lineup.
I could settle for 2 allstars in the lineup + Noah and deng
by Poloplaya14 on Feb 11, 2010 1:06 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't see either making an all-star team
Maybe Noah, but only because he’s a center. However, they’re close enough.
Who would you rather have at small forward?
Luol Deng or Rudy Gay
From the perspective of a season ticket holder since 05'
by Bulls Mouthpiece on Feb 11, 2010 3:26 PM CST reply actions
That depends
In a vacuum, I’d take Gay. However, if we add Joe Johnson or D-Wade to our team, we’ll have two premiere perimeter scorers on our team (with Rose) that will need the ball a lot. Gay needs the ball a lot too, so adding him to that mix wouldn’t be the greatest idea in the world. Deng, on the other hand, is a slasher who relies on moving without the ball for a lot of his scoring. He’s also a much better defender than Gay.
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