The power of (and problem with) Booz
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 5, 2010 5:34 PM CST
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Print(won't be my last 'booze' pun)
Wasn't able to catch the Celtics game (watching the 'tape' as I write this, actually) but seeing that the Bulls were blown out there (following up the blowout loss to Orlando), and needing overtime to take out the Rockets means that this Boozer integration is indeed a work in progress.
That win over Houston on Saturday night did show what Boozer can bring, finishing with 25 and 9 in a little over 30 minutes. And after two straight games of being dominated up front (won't call those losses 'statements', as the Bulls will, more importantly, be better later this year. But it's tough to see how they'll rectify the problem of Noah getting pushed around by larger centers) they were able to control the glass against the Rockets. Though, they're the Rockets: as we know in seeing our own Brad Miller era, board-domination will happen (though Miller was obviously playing out of his mind in other areas of the game on Saturday).
(Also nice, Taj Gibson's second half, and having such a performance available off the bench now)
Boozer's impact was especially important at the end of the game, in a situation where otherwise Rose would've been all by his lonesome in trying to pull out the victory. Instead, there were times where Rose ran into trouble but had a bailout option in Boozer, who'd either hit a jumper or get to the line (having 10 FTAs on the night). Alongside Noah, Boozer also contributed in getting key offensive rebounds down the stretch.
But why, then, was that Rockets game still close, needing an improbable 3 from Rose to even send it to overtime? In some ways it was just an odd game with two teams having played the night before. Brad Miller hitting way too many 3-pointers, Kevin Martin having a nice second half getting the Bulls into the penalty, and the Rockets in general doing a great job of, ahem, embellishing off-ball contact. But a lot of it also had to do with the Rockets going right at Carlos Boozer defensively. He once again showed poor decisionmaking (or perhaps even effort) on defending the screen/roll. And he still gives up way too easily when guarding his own man, fouling instead of letting the team defense work. Between him and Korver (who played well against Houston as well, though oddly only 1-7 from three while 4-4 from inside the arc) that really seems like a Utah thing.
And speaking of the former Jazz on the team, I'm now past the patience stage when it comes to getting Ronnie Brewer in the starting lineup, and Keith Bogans out of there. Bogans can't be a '3-and-D' player when he's shooting 27% from 3, and barely attempting enough shots to keep defenses honest. Obviously, starting Korver, and not Brewer, would help the 3-point shooting. But, while Brewer wouldn't be a classic floor-spacer, his movement off the ball would at least force defenses to pay attention. And especially considering how Boozer's defense has been lacking thus far, I don't think the Bulls can afford to start a statuesque Korver at the off-guard alongside him. I also like the idea of keeping Korver in his role of being an offensive focal-point when out with the second unit, he can run around screens and create shots instead of merely standing in the corner. Either way, he and Brewer would be playing some more minutes, and the lack of a starting job would mean Bogans would barely play at all, which is the true benefit of such a move.
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im gunna say it
I miss taj starting
You need to change your user name to "confirmation bias"
by snley on Nov 27, 2010 9:23 PM PST
by sin on Dec 5, 2010 5:40 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
This is gonna be an ugly trend isn't it?
Can’t we just give Boozer another week? Pleeeeeeeaaaase?
Superteams suck.
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 5, 2010 5:42 PM CST up reply actions 7 recs
Just judging off two games isn't fair.. but sadly I agree..
I just think you added something to a position that was already strong and got worse defensively. I was really hoping they would bring Boozer in off the bench until after we played Boston. I think his scoring would have been a nice luxury with the second unit. Of course he’s paid 80 million dollars? So yeah I guess you couldn’t do that. But still.
ALL I want for Christmas is a starting NBA shooting guard and throw in a decent backup point guard!!! Come on Paxson.. seriously John Lucas 3?
If the argument is that Boozer is weak on D
then it makes sense to pair Korver/Gibson and Brewer/Boozer – so you only have one weakness between those two positions
we weren't strong at power forward with Taj. We just weren't horrible
Power forward was still a position of weakness in comparison to PG, SF and C.
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 5, 2010 8:40 PM CST up reply actions
usually when people warn they're going to say something
it’s dumb.
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"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 5, 2010 6:12 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
i wish you were my teacher in grade school
i feel like i learn so much from you everyday!
You need to change your user name to "confirmation bias"
by snley on Nov 27, 2010 9:23 PM PST
by sin on Dec 5, 2010 7:53 PM CST up reply actions
The funny thing about this Bogans predicament
is that there are THREE other guys on the roster that I’d prefer to get minutes ahead of him at the 2. It baffles me how he’s still starting. At this point I’m not sure what Thibs’ point is. He’s just delaying the inevitable, and retarding the growth of the team. His retarding is retarded.
Superteams suck.
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 5, 2010 5:41 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
Yeah it's pretty clear the media has become aware that Bogans can't get it done.
How many times can they ask the question? Like I wrote he’s being stubborn about it because of his ego. Yeah we get it you won a title in Boston get over yourself.
ALL I want for Christmas is a starting NBA shooting guard and throw in a decent backup point guard!!! Come on Paxson.. seriously John Lucas 3?
Yea, he really does appear to have a bit of an ego
It was obviously most apparent after that John Lucas debacle where, afterwards, he looked like he was ready to throw down with one of the beat writers
Superteams suck.
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 5, 2010 5:59 PM CST up reply actions
I'm starting to get really worried about these rotation patterns.
We’ve got Rose, Noah, and Deng playing 40+ minutes every single night, and they’re 30 tough minutes. Noah, in particular, is being used in a baffling way. You can’t really be an energy player when you aren’t subbed for until 8 min left in the second quarter. This isn’t hockey; there’s no reason players have to play in shifts with each other, and players can be subbed in more than one a half, even!
Plus it's not like we have total garbage as a backup
Personally, I’ve been pretty impressed with Omer. I think he needs to see a more playing time anyway. There’s no need for Noah to be playing this much. As for Rose, he’s playing just about the right amount. Maybe he could play a little less, but he’s young, and we need him out there pretty badly
Superteams suck.
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 5, 2010 6:02 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Taj and Boozer need to get minutes together
It baffles me why Thibodeau won’t play them in tandem.
Pat Riley is the devil.
Thibs doesn't know when to play/not play anybody.
The new line in, hockey substitution pattern he exhibits in the second quarter, followed by leaving that line in for 8 minutes is awful.
Then again, it’s not surprising right? Isn’t that the one coach duty he’s never dealt with on the NBA level? Being an assistant coach? Right? I guess he’ll learn on the job.
Vinny hadn't dealt with any coaching duties on any level.
Not that Vinny didn’t suck or that Thibs isn’t a whole world better (he is); but that’s a poor excuse.
I think the team is to blame more than the coach
I mean, WTF is this thing of starting 20 behind everygame? Thibs ends up playing the more because they need to get out of the hole.
No hot sauce?
by JustAnotherFan on Dec 6, 2010 6:39 AM CST up reply actions
i think id rather see them give jj the 2 spot over bogans at this point
Jj is still raw but he’s been huge in both of the major comeback wins
You need to change your user name to "confirmation bias"
by snley on Nov 27, 2010 9:23 PM PST
As long as James Johnson doesn't get the opportunity to make decisions
he’s great. He gets that extra rebound, makes that closeout block on the corner 3. And generally creates enough havoc to get the game into a transition game rather than half court, but as soon as he has the ball in his hands, he’s a walking turnover.
by JockstrapNoah on Dec 5, 2010 6:37 PM CST up reply actions
Worst thing that happened was Bogans having a great pre-season
In the Boston game it was so obvious that the Celtics were going to completely ignore him on offense. It seems clear to me that a starting 2 guard isn’t on the roster, but if the Bulls can’t pull of a trade, Bogans needs to sit.
Beyond the fact that he is starting, he really shouldn’t even be in the rotation.
but good coaches have started him!!!11!1
He must be good.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Was Rose a bad denfender? Give Boozer time to gel into thibs system.
by Jamaic on Dec 5, 2010 6:43 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
You know, you really can't judge Booz right away.
I mean he’s strong enough to play hard D and I think Thibs will get him in shape.
not a fan of that
I’d start looking for a $70m receipt if he has to be a situational player
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 5, 2010 10:10 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
This was talked about by one of the Jazz beat reporters.. I can't find the link.
But he basically said the Jazz were a better defensive team without Boozer. He broke it down with stats but I’m not a stat guy and I didn’t post it.
ALL I want for Christmas is a starting NBA shooting guard and throw in a decent backup point guard!!! Come on Paxson.. seriously John Lucas 3?
I think Boozer is good enough for most teams
Taj will be needed when we face better PF. But we knew that already. But look on the bright side:
Bosh is not good enough to D up KG or Howard
Amare is not good enough to D up KG or Howard
So it’s not like we had such a great option in the offseason
No hot sauce?
by JustAnotherFan on Dec 6, 2010 6:42 AM CST up reply actions
Funny that he'll publically acknowledge Boozer's flaws
yet he acts like Bogans is Kobe Bryant to the media
Superteams suck.
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 6, 2010 8:02 AM CST up reply actions 4 recs
hah!
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
You know, I really think Boozer's underrated defensively.
Draftexpress thinks he’s pretty good, and their scouting reports are usually pretty solid. I also find it hard to believe he’s that bad defensively given how solid the Jazz teams of the past few years have been defensively (with Mehmet Okur anchoring the middle, BTW). And from what I’ve seen I really don’t think he’s been that bad, considering how rusty he must be.
Pat Riley is the devil.
by Poloplaya14 on Dec 5, 2010 7:21 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
Yea, this is definitely getting overblown imo
Especially when, like you said, he just got back. Nobody seems to have mentioned the fact that the only reason D Rose had the opportunity to hit that shot was because Boozer had 2 HUGE offensive rebounds and putbacks. I think we should give this one a little time. I’ve been more than happy with what I’ve seen so far.
Superteams suck.
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 5, 2010 7:26 PM CST up reply actions
No.
His help defense at times is awful. LOL I have watched him run away from guards before they pick up their dribble. I have seen it numerous times already. His shot blocking seems very limited. Has a lot of Drew Gooden in him. I don’t care how long you’ve been out, you don’t forget how to help on defense. It’s completely different defensively when he’s in the game. Go read the Jazz realgm board they all say he’s a poor defender. One of the Jazz beat reporters even wrote how much better their defense has been this year without Boozer.
ALL I want for Christmas is a starting NBA shooting guard and throw in a decent backup point guard!!! Come on Paxson.. seriously John Lucas 3?
6'7 with pasty legs!
ALL I want for Christmas is a starting NBA shooting guard and throw in a decent backup point guard!!! Come on Paxson.. seriously John Lucas 3?
Maybe we need to stop this dumb talk of starting Taj...
If you didn’t notice, Taj got schooled by Scola throughout the game. Even though they are not very valid, Funk/King even commented on the broadcast that the Rockets have been going at Taj with Scola because they think its a matchup that they can exploit. So please bulls fans, stop with this Taj>Boozer talk. Yes, boozer needs some time to adjust to the game. Remember these are the FIRST games EVER he has played with Rose/Noah/etc. That affects both defensive and offensive rotations. Thibs is too good of defensive coach not to put Boozer into a position to do well defensively. I remember the first games of the season Korver looked SHITTY on defense, lately he has done quite well,
Scola schooled Taj in the 1st game too. I'm guessing Scola schools a bunch of guys.
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 5, 2010 8:39 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I've never liked the
‘ had his way with , this is proof that sucks’ argument
by Stacey_Is_King on Dec 5, 2010 8:52 PM CST up reply actions
Everyone who plays against scola sucks according to that argument
yeeeeah …
The Miami Heat: Like ants and a magnifying glass. ... OH NO! CHRIS BOSH’S BEAUTIFUL FACE!!!!!!!!
I'm confused
are you agreeing with me (who was agreeing with Kyle33) or disagreeing with me
by Basketball Smurf on Dec 5, 2010 9:16 PM CST up reply actions
Uhhhhh just ignore me
I was agreeing with you, but it was a formatting fail
by Stacey_Is_King on Dec 5, 2010 9:50 PM CST up reply actions
regardless of who's better than whoever...
either way we have a much much stronger second unit
by we have already witnessed on Dec 5, 2010 9:25 PM CST up reply actions
there is no talk of it.
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"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 5, 2010 10:11 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Boozer has seen more of Scola than has Taj.
ALL I want for Christmas is a starting NBA shooting guard and throw in a decent backup point guard!!! Come on Paxson.. seriously John Lucas 3?
Off topic but
wtf is a buggy whip?
"Freeze it!... now roll it!" -Stacey King, greatest analyst ever.
by WalmartSecurity on Dec 5, 2010 11:16 PM CST reply actions
Niel Funk's favorite self-descriptive term
As thefreedictionary.com says, "a horsewhip once used by a driver of a buggy; “since buggies have been replaced by cars the buggy whip has become a symbol for anything that is hopelessly outmoded”."
The Miami Heat: Like ants and a magnifying glass. ... OH NO! CHRIS BOSH’S BEAUTIFUL FACE!!!!!!!!
by Prevenge on Dec 5, 2010 11:19 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
so funk is saying Rose's dunks are outmoded
That makes sense.Funk is an anti-homer. Or,he’s just an idiot.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
lol
No, Funk’s just using it in the ‘horsewhip’ term, I just thought the second part of it was … ridiculously descriptive of Funk. I mean, there he is! Hopelessly outmoded? He’s like a car, and he’ll get you there … kinda … if you have food for him, and … yeah, probably just better to turn on the radio.
The Miami Heat: Like ants and a magnifying glass. ... OH NO! CHRIS BOSH’S BEAUTIFUL FACE!!!!!!!!
When Neil Funk was a kid
they had horse drawn carriages, and the the driver had a whip, used with quick, short strokes to get the horse to go.
"I love you, mommy!" - Joakim Noah
hence, a quick,whip-like dunk
see, Kemp, Shawn; Marion, Shawn
"I love you, mommy!" - Joakim Noah
regardless of our starting five
between benny the bull
neil funk and stacey king that is a all star trio right there
Rodman is the best.
Yeah Funk is bad and take Tommy Edwards with ya!
I want Gene Honda!
ALL I want for Christmas is a starting NBA shooting guard and throw in a decent backup point guard!!! Come on Paxson.. seriously John Lucas 3?
Carlos Boozer
The cause of — and solution to — all the Bulls’ problems.
Teams without Chapu lost 1173 games during the 2009-'10 season.
by chapuforyou on Dec 6, 2010 9:07 AM CST reply actions 9 recs
I'd probably go with "hysterical"
but hilarious seemed to do the trick.
I got the skills to pay the bills and that's about it
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 6, 2010 4:39 PM CST up reply actions
Team defense needs to improve and not just Boozer
Bulls have had defensive lapses in long stretches prior to Boozer arrival to the lineup. The whole team needs to play 48 mins of defense and not take quarters off. Players cutting to the basket for easy layups, giving up open 3 pt shots, giving up 2nd shots, etc. for long stretches in a game have been happening on a consistent basis since the start of the season. The whole team needs to improve. When Boozer gets back to game shape and his conditioning improves, I expect Boozer to rebound better and get down the court quicker. If you expect Boozer to be great shot blocker, forget about it because he isn’t one much of one.
by MCREW on Dec 6, 2010 9:42 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
We all knew Boozer would struggle defending the pick and roll, and that there was going to be an adjustment period with his game.
My main issue is the lack of adjustments Thibs has made with the rotation. I’m not ready to say it’s an ego thing, or a lack of awareness — but that 2nd quarter hockey shift change is a big reason why we’re down by 20+ in the first half of games.
Either we fall behind with that unit in, or we let them keep racking up points on us, but it’s never good.
I got the skills to pay the bills and that's about it
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 6, 2010 10:36 AM CST reply actions
Why can we see it and the coaches can't?
Seems that when under fire (game time) Thibs is lacking.
I’ve seen him forget to sub offense/defense at end of games, he plays small when we have the lead, when you need to protect the paint and rebound, he puts in Lucas at the end of games, and the strange use of Bogans/Brewer/Korver/Watson
"I love you, mommy!" - Joakim Noah
Well that was the worry about Thibs coming into the season
that he’s so concerned with the x’s and o’s and game-decisions/play-calling that he will unintentionally ignore rotation issues.
I think it was a game when he was still with Boston where he took over after Doc got ejected and he admitted after the game that he simply forgot to sub players. That specific game’s been referenced here on BaB a bit I think, but I’m concerned that he seems to either not think it’s a problem or he wants to prove a point to the media or something.
I got the skills to pay the bills and that's about it
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 6, 2010 10:52 AM CST up reply actions
But hasn't the second quarter unit really improved recently?
Pretty much ever since CJ exploded in Denver I feel like the that “hockey change” unit has either narrowed the deficit or kept them in games.
Early in the season it was terrible, but I feel like we’ve seen it improve. I think that is one of Thibs qualities that is frustrating to us fans, but ultimately is best for the Bulls chances of winning anything significant. He isn’t always coaching to win the games. I feel like the goal of a lot of his moves are to make the Bulls as strong a team as possible by the end of the season. I think that is why he tore the band aid off with Boozer rather than working him in slowly, even though it probably led two losses.
I hate Bogans as much as the next guy, but if his 3pt shot returns to the mean, he’ll fit perfectly in with the starting unit.
Perhaps, but I feel like that unit really ended the game for us against the Magic
although in the end that was hardly our biggest problem. And it seemed like he went back to Rose and the starters earlier than normal against the C’s, which is why we were able to pull close by halftime.
It was more glaring in the beginning of the season though, I definitely agree with that.
I got the skills to pay the bills and that's about it
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 6, 2010 1:54 PM CST up reply actions
so not true
the bench (well it was taj, brewer, and cj, the former two of which had been put in before the end of the quarter, out there with deng and noah) were the ones that pulled us even against the c’s. after he reinserted rose and boozer (and put in korver), the celtics actually extended the lead out to 5 again.
Ah, yeah I was making an assumption there with the "seemed" because I missed the first quarter and about 5 minutes of the 2nd quarter against the C's
I got the skills to pay the bills and that's about it
by Rose Colored Goggles on Dec 6, 2010 4:37 PM CST up reply actions
Boozer should be able to take over tonight
He’s easily the best player in the paint for tonight’s matchup vs OKC. Hopefully he exploits the mouse in the house and we’re singing his praises after a big win this evening
From Sheridan's chat earlier today
Chris (Los Angeles)
Boozer’s defense is already being questioned in Chicago. Coach Thibodeau went to Taj Gibson late in their last game against Houston. Is this a trend you see continuing?
Chris Sheridan
Carlos needs to get his conditioning back, and he’s going to be winded at the end of a few games for the next couple weeks. I see it more as a blip than a trend.
Damon (Santa Cruz, CA)
Funny you think that Carlos’ lack of defense is due to conditioning. Six years in Utah and – when healthy – he never quite learned how to defend. You know it’s bad when the scouting report for other team’s PFs say, simply, “take it at Carlos.”
Chris Sheridan
I was making the case that Thib’s particular sub in that instance may have been conditioning motivated. I learned much about Boozer’s defensive reputation when the US played Argentina in the semifinals in Beijing, and Dwight Howard, Chris Bosh and a couple other Americans all had three fouls late in the 2nd quarter. Coach K needed someone to defend Scola, who was single-handedly bringing Argentina back into the game, and he chose Tayshaun Prince over Boozer because he felt Prince was the better defender.
by Option27 on Dec 6, 2010 2:54 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Boozer's defense questioned.
This shouldn’t be a debate or something that needs to be brought up. Instead the perspective should be it’s not a problem because we actually have a bench of big men (Gibson, Asik) that can play defense. How many teams can count on their big men to play better defense than the starter?
I see it as positive to have roster that can actually fill some gaps. I mean rebounding is critical to basketball, and having a young proficient defensive players like Gibson and Asik is huge plus.
Boozer’s lack of defense is only plus for the roster to balance itself out. If Gibson wasn’t proficient defensively, we’d be struggling between Noah and Asik. Or if Boozer was a better defender, then the roster would not be viable, especially with the lack of proficient scoring guard.
what the hell?
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"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 6, 2010 6:01 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
OT: But if someone wants to do a Thunder preview and bail me out that'd be great.
TS% = Thabo Sefolosha percentage. It calculates how much you can be like Thabo Sefolosha. That’s why Keith Bogans is at 70%.
Thanks.
TS% = Thabo Sefolosha percentage. It calculates how much you can be like Thabo Sefolosha. That’s why Keith Bogans is at 70%.
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 6, 2010 4:35 PM CST up reply actions
Can I add 20 minutes of ranting about Kyle Weaver?
Pleeeease? It’ll be incoherent!
The Miami Heat: Like ants and a magnifying glass. ... OH NO! CHRIS BOSH’S BEAUTIFUL FACE!!!!!!!!
Haha just send him an alarm clock.
that will solve everything.
by JockstrapNoah on Dec 6, 2010 5:38 PM CST up reply actions
YOU SOB
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"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 6, 2010 4:36 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
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