Bulls v. Celtics - Nov. 5, 2010 Recap
via d.yimg.com
| Team | Q1 | Q2 | Q3 | Q4 | OT1 | OT2 | OT3 | Final |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 23 | 15 | 26 | 32 | 9 | 0 | 0 | 105 | |
| BOS | 19 | 30 | 23 | 24 | 14 | 0 | 0 | 110 |
| Team | OffEff | DefEff | Poss | EFG% | TOR | ORR | FTR |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| CHI | 100.0 | 104.8 | 105 | 51.8 | 19.0 | 20.0 | 21.2 |
| BOS | 104.8 | 100.0 | 53.7 | 14.3 | 7.7 | 30.5 |
(Quarter breakdowns and 4 factor numbers via Hoopdata).
Last night's game was a bit of a microcosm of the Bulls' year so far. They started out very strong, got trounced in the second quarter when Thibs went to his hockey-style line change with the second unit in the second quarter, and then spent the rest of the game trying to make up the difference.
Derrick had a pretty mediocre game. He finished the game -8, while his counterpart Rondo finished with a +11. Derrick spent a whopping 46 minutes on the court but was only able to come up with 18 points, on 19 shots, 5 rebounds, 9 assists, and 6 turnovers (though 2 of those were kind of bull to charge to Derrick, one was the phantom offensive foul on Derrick's late drive against KG and the other was the pass that Taj plain dropped after Derrick had collapsed the defense). I thought the Celtics did a pretty good job of containing Derrick's penetration for the most part, though he got to the rim for 7 attempts and made 4 of them. The most damning thing to me, though, tonight was Derrick really didn't look like he was competing on the defensive end. I don't know if there was miscommunication out there or what, but Rondo and Pierce murdered Rose and Deng in the 1-3 pick and roll a number of times. A couple of them it was unclear whether Derrick or Luol was at fault, but it wasn't pretty. Beyond that, Derrick gave up dribble penetration to Rondo easily a number of times, which was disappointing to see.
Speaking of Luol, he had a terrible, terrible game, particularly down the stretch. I know he hit two back to back clutch three pointers towards the end of the fourth, but he also had two terrible in-bounds plays in a row when the Bulls had a chance to pull away from the Celtics late. One he just threw the ball out of bounds, rather than calling a timeout to prevent a five second violation and the other he threw to Korver in an awkward position (Ray Allen pushed Korver in the back causing Korver to drop the ball, which of course was not called). Luol's rebounding is also still MIA as he secured just 6 boards in 43 minutes, combine that with 20 points on 19 shots, 2 assists, 4 turnovers, and some absolutely terrible pick and roll defense in overtime and Luol was another big reason the Bulls lost. He did give Pierce a hard time for most of regulation, though, as Pierce finished the game 4-14. Unfortunately, Pierce made plays down the stretch and Deng didn't.
We also saw why Thibs doesn't play Korver much, despite his needed floor stretching abilities. The guy got absolutely worked by Ray Allen and Pierce in the 2-3 and 3-2 pick and roll during overtime. He was a -8 in just 20 minutes and it was not hard to see why. He also only provided 5 points on 5 shots. Yuck.
Scalabrine finally only played 3 minutes and even registered a block on Pierce in isolation. Both of those things were good to see. Pierce getting embarrassed is always nice and Scal not playing is a much needed adjustment by Coach T.
Joakim was absolutely fantastic save for two plays. The first wasn't a play at all, really. He got T'd up at the end of the first half, which gave the Celtics an extra point to start the second half. It's impossible to say how the game would shake out if the point hadn't been granted or how strategies would have changed, but the fact is that the Bulls ended regulation tied and that 1 point didn't NEED to be given to the Celtics. When you're playing a team like Boston, you can't give away free points. Joakim has to be smarter than that. Finally, the only other bad play that Joakim had was when he attempted to push the pace towards the end of OT after a rebound, rather than getting it the ball to Derrick. KG snuck up behind him and poked the ball away to Big Baby and that was a pretty decisive possession. Other than that, Joakim gave us 49 minutes, 26 points on 13 shots, 10-10 FTs, 12 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 steal, 1 block and 2 turnovers. I love him.
Similarly, Taj looked fantastic. The Celtics left Noah and Taj open all night for long 2 point jumpers off of Derrick's penetration and they consistently made them pay. Taj even displayed a few new moves in his offensive repertoire, including a floater. I also thought his defense on Garnett was very solid. KG finished with just 16 points on 17 shots. You'd like for Taj to grab more than 7 boards in 40 minutes, though.
Ronnie Brewer looks like he's finally healthy (some nice cuts and finishes in the lane and a nice pick of Ray Allen's pocket late for an easy transition dunk) and it couldn't come soon enough, because Keith Bogans is truly terrible. Oh, and Keith, stop trying to run the fast break. It's embarrassing.
Jimmy Johns had a pretty brutal game in his short stint. He jacked some ugly shots and finished with no points on 4 shots in 6 minutes and only 2 boards and 1 assist. I'm afraid it looks like JJ had a fluky game against the Pistons and that's about it.
Finally, a word about the refereeing. I normally don't complain a lot about refs, at least after the fact when I've calmed down and seen a replay, but last night was truly awful. The foul disparity doesn't seem to be that great just looking at the box score, but the calls last night were terribly one sided. Rondo reached in on Derrick 4 times by my count that should have been obvious fouls and he was never called, including on the final play of regulation where he dove into Derrick's midsection. Big Baby got away with a couple of blocking fouls that were treated as charges, and Derrick was charged with a crucial offensive foul late for having the audacity to be hacked by KG. It was pretty ridiculous. Then, on the other end, Ray Allen shot a three pointer and fell down like he was shot because Derrick challenged the shot (didn't touch Allen, mind you) and got a 4 point play. In a tight game, all of these things made the difference.
It was good to see the guys hang tough in that kind of environment, but it sucked to see them fall apart at the end to a team that just kept executing in the clutch. As someone who appreciates well-played basketball, Pierce's pass to Allen for the dunk over Korver in crunch time was beautiful. As a Bulls fan, it made me want to throw up.
Oh and one more thing, Kevin Garnett is a dick.
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Managed to see the replay of the game on my DVR
I agree with Rose, but I think part of his problem is that in games like this, referees are teaching Rose poor lessons. Go to the hoop, get hacked = offensive foul. Close out well on the perimiter, don’t touch the shooter = 4 point play. Rose should have had 4-8 more FT attempts and at a certain point it is not Rose’s fault, it’s on the reffing. Thibs needs to pull a Phil Jackson and call out the reffing at some point or Rose needs to or Noah. But that was some bullshit.
"Mental toughness is to physical as four is to one." - Bob Knight
Yeah good summery.
Ray Allen absolutely killed the Bulls last night. How bad the the Bulls need a starting SG and a back up PG? Time to start Brewer. They needs to address both issues here pretty soon whether in a trade or picking up Kyle Weaver.
On that note
I actually don’t care if the Bulls start Brewer or not. What I do want is the Bulls to having Brewer run the point when Rose is in the game. It’s clear Watson’s not doing a very good job, so if we’re not gonna bring anybody in, we might as well see if Brewer can create for others like he did in college.
Pat Riley is the devil.
You mean when Derrick ISN'T in the game, right?
by fundamentallysound on Nov 6, 2010 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Interesting idea
Although I think I would give Watson a little more time. It looks to me like he’s coming along.
Superteams suck.
by Juiceboxjerry on Nov 6, 2010 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah but he's not really a point guard.. he a small shooting guard.
He also turns it over alot. Something you can’t have from a point guard. Turnover prone and too shooty.
Never understate the value of the pump fake!
Yea, but he can get better
Plus, he, or whoever replaces him, won’t be playing that much behind Derrick anyway
Superteams suck.
by Juiceboxjerry on Nov 6, 2010 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions
well no.
They won’t be playing a lot but look at the second unit struggling they don’t have anyone to lead them. Also when Derrick gets doubled they really don’t have any ball handlers. Thats why you need another SG who can do multiple things one of them being able to handle the rock. Thats one thing that made Scottie and MJ great guards they all could handle the ball in traffic. When one came out the other could step in and lead.
The Lakers have so many great ball handlers. Odom, Kobe, Fisher, Gasol, Artest is ok.
Never understate the value of the pump fake!
Shooty = Selfish.
Is this even a basketball game anymore, or am I watching a referee themed television show? -Juiceboxjerry
Not necessarily. Derrick is pretty shooty and he's not selfish at all.
by fundamentallysound on Nov 6, 2010 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions
I concede...
Not necessarily. In the case of Watson, from what I have seen, he is looking to get his before looking for others…Most egregious example of this behavior was in the Portland game, when Rose got up off the bench to sub for him, Watson basically chucked a long three pointer outside the rhythm of the offense…
Is this even a basketball game anymore, or am I watching a referee themed television show? -Juiceboxjerry
Good write up
Boozer needs to come back, he’s deadly on those jumpers that Taj kept being left open for. Weird that people want him for his post game, but I think the biggest benefit of having him back will be his ability to pull 4s out 20 feet and open the up the lanes for Derrick, and then subsequently crash the boards to clean up after Rose’s misses.
What happened on that Noah T? I was half in half out on the game last night, and never heard an explanation.
I believe he was just bitching at the refs for their overall terribleness to that point. Unfortunately, it didn't get any better in the second half.
by fundamentallysound on Nov 6, 2010 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, much as I love Noah...
I doubt he’s really adept at talking to the refs in a way to do anything other than piss them off.
Taj is actually killing it on those jumpers this year
He’s 10-19 from 16-23 ft this year. He looks drastically improved offensively this year. He seems so much more fluid in everything he does.
Pat Riley is the devil.
He's filling in for Boozer admirably
But you have to think that part of the reason he’s been knocking down so many from mid-long range is that opposing defenses haven’t really been respecting his jumpshot.
Not sure how much trust I have in Taj to continue scoring this efficiently.
I don't think it's because they don't respect his jumpshot
I think it’s because they’re scared of Rose. A vast majority of those jumpers have come after a Rose double team. I would expect him to continue to get those looks. His success will depend on whether he can continue to knock them down. If I remember correctly, his jumper looked really good at the beginning of last year too, but he slowly lost it as the year went on
Superteams suck.
by Juiceboxjerry on Nov 6, 2010 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Exactly.
From the defense’s perspective: Taj Gibson jumper from 17 feet > Derrick Rose drive to the rim.
by fundamentallysound on Nov 6, 2010 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Fair enough
which leads me back to my original point.
Once we get Boozer and his versatility as a scorer back, Rose is going to have wayyy more room to work.
Here's the Pierce to Allen dunk that sealed the game broken down at NBA Playbook:
http://nbaplaybook.com/2010/11/06/ray-allens-game-clinching-dunk/
The Celtics are so smart. The Bulls had the play perfectly defended and Pierce’s smarts to make the fake pass to Davis and Allen’s smarts to cut to the basket lead to the easy basket. I hope the Bulls execute that well someday.
by fundamentallysound on Nov 6, 2010 3:08 PM CDT reply actions
The thing that amazes me about the Celtics
is how EVERY TIME, there is a matchup that they feel they can benefit from (like Daniels on Korver, or Allen on Korver, or pretty much anyone on Korver), they all immediately know where the ball needs to go. They exploit those things better than any team in the league. They are just an incredibly smart team.
Superteams suck.
by Juiceboxjerry on Nov 6, 2010 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions
The core group of guys "the big 4" has been together for a very long time. They know the system. Plus they have a ton of vets, outside of those guys.
They just have a lot of heady players and they’ve gelled for years now.
by fundamentallysound on Nov 6, 2010 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Incidentally, this is kind of why I'm happy that it appears the Bulls finally have their team set for the foreseeable future.
I want them to be able to establish that rapport and chemistry that great teams that play together for a long time have. They still need a longer term solution at the shooting guard, but the other 4 positions should be cemented for the next 3 or 4 years, at least.
by fundamentallysound on Nov 6, 2010 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Yea. and personally, I think it's one of the reasons I think Rondo is a bit overrated.
I’m not saying he sucks or anything, I know he’s good. But he’s been able to play with the same 3 hall of famers for years now. And not only are they damn good, but they are all (notably KG and Allen) terrific spot shooters. So it gives him weapons that are pretty much unmatched in the league
Superteams suck.
by Juiceboxjerry on Nov 6, 2010 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah. I'll be honest, I think assists are one of the most overrated stats in the game. They are heavily depended on scorekeeper whim
and they are also heavily dependent on the abilities of your teammates. I also have read that on the team level, assists have basically no correlation to winning percentage, which is pretty surprising. On the individual level, I think they serve as an okay proxy for passing ability, but again, if you play with a team that has three excellent shooters (Pierce, Allen, and KG) spacing the floor most of the time, it’s going to much easier to penetrate and you’re going to get a lot of assists on long jumpers that a player with worse shooting teammates (hello, Derrick) just isn’t going to get. Rondo’s a very good passer, but it would be interesting to see how much worse his court vision looked if he didn’t have a perfectly spaced floor all the time because of his HoF teammates. It’s worth noting that in his first two seasons, he only averaged 5.8 and 6.1 assists per 36 minutes. The second season was the year they won the title. He only had 6.1 assists even with 3 HoFers alongside of him. Now, obviously, he’s gotten better, but he’s also gotten used to playing with three of the games best shooters for their position. It’s also much easier to see the floor when things aren’t crowded because the floor is spaced and because people are playing 10 feet off of you because you can’t shoot.
Derrick has the exact opposite situation. He’s always a threat to score so guys play up on him and even double him because he’s our only offensive weapon. He’s spent most of his career with very little floor spacing around him. Yet, he’s still put up better assist numbers every year (including his own rookie season) than Rondo put up his rookie year when he didn’t have the big 3. Also, Derrick’s averaging 9.8 assists per 36 minutes his 3rd year in Rondo’s 3rd and 4th years (the last two) he put up 9.0 and 9.6 per 36, despite having the Big 3. Needless to say, I’m pretty excited about what Derrick will look like when Boozer shows up. If the Bulls can get a starting caliber 2 that can shoot (this is why Redick would have been ideal), then Derrick will have Boozer, Deng, and SG that can space the floor. In addition, Noah’s shooting an amazing 73% on long jumpers so far. If he can continue knocking that shot down even at 45%, the Bulls floor spacing and Derrick’s life becomes a lot easier.
by fundamentallysound on Nov 6, 2010 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
Good stuff. This post is the best argument
in the Rose/Rondo debates we have here. Here’s my fear going forward…
When Boozer comes back, will it make a difference? What I mean is that Taj and Noah are supplying scoring in the post as of now and look at our deficiencies. Will that change with Boozer I wonder. Yeah I know the pick and roll/Pop will be different, but not having a scorer at the 2 is going to haunt us. Our biggest strength (front court toughness) will be Miami’s biggest weakness and I hate to see it go down the tubes because we lack scoring at SG. I hope Pax is looking into Mayo or even Crawford because we have to find somebody.
Yeah but it worked!
Right now our deficiencies are in the defense (Thibs is still installing the system, I think this will work itself out over 82 games)
and the bench. I think the starting lineup won’t see much change with Boozer because Taj has been playing great. But the big difference will be with Taj’s production coming off the bench, Scal will never see the floor again and the second unit will have Taj to use his moves in the post and midrange game to provide some scoring punch alongside Watson and Korver. I also think having Taj out there with the second unit helps on the defensive end because he’s a very, very good defender and Scal, well, isn’t.
by fundamentallysound on Nov 6, 2010 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions
The bench will be much improved when Boozer gets back...
If simply because Taj will be getting the majority of Asik and Scal’s minutes….
Brewer is beginning to look healthy again too, which means he should get bumped to the starting five, which will improve the defense of that unit, and ideally get him 25+ minutes of playing time, which should mean fewer minutes for Bogans (and hopefully Watson). The nine man rotation will look like…
Noah
Boozer
Deng
Brewer
Rose
Gibson
Korver
Asik
Watson
Bogans, Scal,JJ and Thomas get token minutes based on match-ups, fouls, etc…
Is this even a basketball game anymore, or am I watching a referee themed television show? -Juiceboxjerry
Yep. This is basically what I was envisioning with my above comment.
I don’t think Bogans will fall completely out of the rotation, though, because Thibs likes him and because Bogans has a history of playing more minutes than he should, wherever he is.
by fundamentallysound on Nov 6, 2010 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions
You are probably right...
And I don’t think Bogans has been that bad…he is a decent facsimile of an NBA guard, rebounds and defends well, and his 3 pt shot will come around. Thibs probably ends up with a 10 man rotation, with Asik or Bogans being the 10th based on match-ups…
Then we can begin our all out assault Pargo style on what crap player CJ Watson has been…
Is this even a basketball game anymore, or am I watching a referee themed television show? -Juiceboxjerry
CJ will come around, I think. He's been pretty rotten to start the year off, but I think he'll be ok.
I do think the Bulls need a backup PG that actually runs the offense, though.
On the other hand, Thibs spent the last few years with the C’s having no real backup PG and only relying on shooty combo guards to fill in behind Rondo (Eddie House and Nate Robinson) with a splash of Ray Allen or Pierce handling the ball as though they were point guards. So, maybe he doesn’t see it as that big of a deal. Unfortunately, neither the Bulls’ SGs or Deng are good enough to do what Allen and Pierce do for the Celtics.
by fundamentallysound on Nov 6, 2010 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions
CJ is starting to remind me of, dare I say, Pargo
::shudders::
dear gar/pax,
trade for carmelo anthony.
thank you
by chicago030 on Nov 6, 2010 5:30 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Everyone else has dared to say it :)
Superteams suck.
by Juiceboxjerry on Nov 6, 2010 7:23 PM CDT up reply actions
I just made that comparison...
45 minutes before you…
we can begin our all out assault Pargo style on what crap player CJ Watson has been
Is this even a basketball game anymore, or am I watching a referee themed television show? -Juiceboxjerry
If someone could just post this
anytime and any where there is a Rose and Rondo debate, it would be so much easier and faster than letting it get drawn out.
by Dr. Handsome, D.D.S. on Nov 6, 2010 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Copy it to your computer's clipboard if you want. I'll sign off on my copyright to it. Haha.
by fundamentallysound on Nov 6, 2010 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Rondo's ego
Tough loss, one the Bulls could’ve had. I was excited to see Rondo/Rose h2h after the FIBA experience and with Rondo putting up crazy assist numbers so far this year. I was struck by the number of times Rondo forced the pass when it appeared he had the better shot opportunity. This became all the more evident down the stretch in the 4th quarter when he had back to back easy layups off pick and rolls.
Earlier in the game though, he’d have a lane, be driving toward the hoop and loop a pass out to the three-point line, or for a long 2-pt. jumper. Those plays struck me as forced, and definitely not the best shot opp. for his team. It’s as if Rondo’s #1 goal this season is running up huge assist numbers, even if that means sacrificing team efficiency. This, of course, would jive with his reputation as an egocentric (yet apparently cerebral) head case, more concerned about making his mark on the game rather than offering his team the best opportunity to win.
It seems particularly odd when a player gets selfish about distributing the ball to others. Perhaps the good will you build with teammates is worth the sacrifice of a few better looks, particularly early in the season. I’ll be interested to see if he forces passes less as the season moves on.
Rec city
I think I would make this my sig if it wasn’t so long :)
Superteams suck.
by Juiceboxjerry on Nov 6, 2010 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Nice summery, I agree on all points.
Couple of other missed calls, KG hacking at Noah after the whistle. Doc running out onto the court and crying,pleading,whining at the refs after Bogans dumbly dove for that ball in the back court.
Both deserved techs.
A number of the calls were made by refs on the other side of the court, who could not possibly see what happended. The call on Allen’s three, the ref was behind Ray and unable to see if Rose touched him or not.
Outside the Lines, last week did a segment on how terrible the referring is, esp on block/charge calls (seems like its a 50/50 coin toss) I’m really noticing less bitching from players, which is a good thing. Now they have to correct this very weak officiating.
Great recap
Even after all the other things that went wrong, the thing that sticks out the most to me is that we lost the game because we got owned in the second quarter. Which just so happens to be Thibs’ “fun with subs” quarter. Thibs has gotta get his shit together. Meaning, make Scalabrine a full time cheerleader.
I know we need wins, but once again, I’m encouraged after a loss. The fact that this team can play with a rested Boston team on a back to back, without Boozer, and an unsettled second unit, says a lot to me. I really can’t be angry.
The only thing that bugged me, and FS mentioned this, was Derrick’s porous D, and pretty ugly body language on the court. More than his scoring, assist numbers, or whatever, the thing that’s impressed me most about Rose is how involved and intense he’s been during games this year. Last night he looked totally different. With blank stares, and slumped shoulders. I’m not sure how much of this can be attributed to the back to back, but I’m more than willing to give him a pass. He’s earned it. And I’m sure he’ll come ready on Monday,
Superteams suck.
I have a hard time pinning the loss on Scalabrine's minutes. He played 3. The starters each played 40 minutes or more. They really just need the bench to play
better. I don’t know what the answer for that is, but I suspect part of it will come when Taj is moved to the bench and Boozer is in with the starting unit.
by fundamentallysound on Nov 6, 2010 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, more than Scalabrine, (obviously it's not all his fault)
but I think the way that Thibs is using these guys is hurting them. By searching so hard to find the right mix, he’s not letting his best players find a rhythm. So it’s kind of Scalabrine by default.
Superteams suck.
by Juiceboxjerry on Nov 6, 2010 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Well Thibs needs to stop playing the bench guys together as a unit
Instead, he needs to do a better job of integrating the bench players in with the starting group. The hockey-style thing needs to stop. Rose, Deng, and Noah should never all be on the bench at the same time. The way Thibs needs to look at it is “Rose, Deng, and Noah are each going to need 10-15 minutes of rest each game. How do I coordinate things so that there’s as little overlap as possible between their rest times.”
Pat Riley is the devil.
by Poloplaya14 on Nov 6, 2010 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
He already started to do a little bit of that last night.
http://popcornmachine.net/cgi-bin/gameflow.cgi?date=20101105&game=CHIBOS
To start the second, he left Noah in with the four bench guys (Watson, Korver, JJ, and Asik). Then after a few minutes, he subbed in Derrick and Taj and sat Noah down. Even with some starters, they still ended up negative in +/-. The bench guys just need to play better is all.
by fundamentallysound on Nov 6, 2010 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, the bench is simply not very good right now
I’m hoping that Korver will get more minutes after Thibs is satisfied with his D, and Watson and Brewer will return to somewhere near career averages. Mostly i’m hoping that Taj’s return to the second unit will make them good enough to play other teams’ benches to a standstill. That’s all the Bulls need right now, to not get blown out every 2nd quarter.
Yeah, we really outplayed them in 3 of the 4 quarters.
We shot over 60% in the second half.
Hate to lose a winnable game, because of DUMB mistakes, the 2 inbounds plays, Taj fumbling the ball, and Noah dribbling the ball (with no one smart enough to call a TO)….guh.
After a night to sleep over things,
I’ve summed up last night into a simple 3 words solution to why we lost a close game…Luol Deng’s stupidity. That span of a minute where he couldn’t inbound the ball or not commit a silly foul was a 5 point swing. There isn’t a lot of room for error with a team who’s starting SG is averaging 4ppg so playing smart in crunch time will be vital going forward.
Yeah but it worked!
There was blame enough to go around in this game. Deng played a pretty meh game for him until he made those two errors, so he gets a good chunk of it.
Korver’s defense down the stretch was atrocious. Rose didn’t play as well as he needed to and Noah made the mistakes I pointed out.
Most of all, though, the reason the Bulls lost is that they get absolutely nothing from their bench and the Celtics get a lot from theirs. That’s basically it.
by fundamentallysound on Nov 6, 2010 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
The bench is getting killed.
All the high profile errors turn into what… 8pts ? The bench is giving up 15pts at the beginning of the 2nd qtr.
by JockstrapNoah on Nov 6, 2010 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions
What a surprise
You thought long and hard over the night about who to blame, and the answer you came back with was the same scapegoat you’ve been using for months if not years. I hope you didn’t hurt yourself with all of that out-of-the-box thinking.
There were plenty of mistakes in a close game, made by various players, including Deng. What super filtering process did you use to determine that only his were important in a game the Bulls would have won in regulation if they had scored a single point more or stopped the Celtics a single time more?
by runningman on Nov 6, 2010 7:52 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Bogans
should not be starting.
But I give him credit for his effort rebounding all season. He had 8 last night, most of which he made really good decisions with afterwards.
Even if Brewer takes his starting spot back, I think Bogans is definitely rotation material.
"I want to be that guy. I want to be the reason the Bulls are back."- Derrick Rose.
"I'm never leaving Chicago."- Derrick Rose
I think he deserves minutes, I just don't think he belongs with the starters. Luckily, I don't think Thibs thinks that, either. I think he was just waiting until
Brewer’s hamstring got right. It appears that it’s healed now. So hopefully he’s inserted into the starting lineup soon.
by fundamentallysound on Nov 6, 2010 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions
When to change the starting lineup and insert Brewer.
Will be a big head coaching decision that gives us insight into the mind of Thibs. My assumption about Thibs is that he’s pretty stubborn. When he decides to do something he sticks with it, with riding JJ and Asik in the Detroit game as a big exception to that.
by JockstrapNoah on Nov 6, 2010 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Given the discussion about our bench's problems, I thought it would be worthwhile to post this
from RealGM board mod, coldfish:
Game 1: 25-30 to start, Bulls down 31-39 when Rose comes in at 8:39. Bulls -3 in 3.5 minutes.
Game 2: 21-27 to start, Bulls down 23-36 when Rose comes in at 8:45. Bulls -7 in 3.25 minutes.
Game 3: 32-21 to start, Bulls up 40-23 when Rose comes in at 8:52. Bulls +6 in 3 minutes.
Game 4: 30-34 to start, Bulls down 44-32 when Rose comes in at 8:30. Bulls -8 in 3.5 minutes.
Game 5: 23-19 to start, Bulls down 25-23 when Rose comes in at 9:22. Bulls -6 in 2.5 minutes.
Summary, bench is -18 in 15.75 minutes or roughly -55 per 48 minutes of floor time.
Chicago has to do something about this. Getting Boozer back will certainly help because Scalabrine won’t play, but Chicago still needs better play from Watson.
Just wanted to put some numbers to the problem. IMHO, Chicago is 4-1 with adequate bench play.
So yeah, the bench needs to get better and Boozer needs to get well soon so Taj can join in and help out the bench.
by fundamentallysound on Nov 6, 2010 4:21 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
Yep, that will be Boozer's biggest contribution
His presence moving Taj back a spot. Then Garpax has to start thinking of a way to get a shooting guard in here if Ronnie doesn’t really shine.
Superteams suck.
by Juiceboxjerry on Nov 6, 2010 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm willing to wait a while longer on Ronnie. He looked much, much better last night.
I hope that means he’s back to his old self.
by fundamentallysound on Nov 6, 2010 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions
I am crossing my fingers.
ALL OF THEM.
WEAVER! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
LOL.
Me too, while simultaneously knocking on wood. It hurts. I wouldn’t recommend it.
by fundamentallysound on Nov 6, 2010 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions
The last line
dear gar/pax,
trade for carmelo anthony.
thank you
by chicago030 on Nov 6, 2010 4:45 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Damn mobuile
dear gar/pax,
trade for carmelo anthony.
thank you
by chicago030 on Nov 6, 2010 4:45 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Jeez I cant fuckingtype!
Thr last line is my favorite. Nice summary.
dear gar/pax,
trade for carmelo anthony.
thank you
by chicago030 on Nov 6, 2010 4:46 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Looks like you're having a rough spelling day. lol
Yeah but it worked!
Amazing that the Bulls got their first foul with 10 minutes left in the 4th. I think
They still came back.
Never understate the value of the pump fake!
J-Rich went off last night
and has a PER of 25 so far this year, plus he’s always been a good outside shooter. He would make a great 3rd scoring option…
Considering how many 2-3s Phoenix has and their relative lack of 4s, some sort if Taj-J-Rich swap could be conceivable. Though he doesn’t fit with the normal Sun’s style of play.
Taj is at least the equal of Warrick offensively.
And way way better than Warrick on the defensive end, even though overall Phoenix is the best possible fit for Warrick. Phoenix would have to be playing awful for the Suns to get rid of J-Rich though.
by JockstrapNoah on Nov 6, 2010 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Not necessarily
If Childress comes on strong then they could shift him to the 2 and play Turkoglu at the 3 where he belongs.
Yeah, I really don't see the Suns parting with their second best player for Taj.
by fundamentallysound on Nov 6, 2010 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Its a contract year for JRich
The suns risk losing him for nothing, or, if they are the mediocre team we all think they are, then they could trade him for players and picks. I don’t see the Bulls giving up Taj for anything though. He’s a huge bargain for two more years (poor Taj, if only he got into the second round he’d be making bank next year).
by JockstrapNoah on Nov 6, 2010 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Nice.
I’m not sure it’s really a good idea to have Deng inbounding the ball late in the game. He’s just not a very good passer. Put players in position to do what they’re good at. I think this is just part of Thibs ‘feeling out’ process.
I really like Brewer’s game when he’s healthy, and he’s clearly getting there. Not only is he an excellent defender, but his constant movement on offense makes his man work hard on defense. He can’t shoot 3’s, but his midrange shot isn’t too bad. I’d like to see him get 30+min. a game as soon as possible.
Once the original Big 3 of boston (kg, ray, paul pierce) get old, they will suck. Rondo, unlike Rose, will be unable to carry the team himself. I mean, he cant even shoot.
dear gar/pax,
trade for carmelo anthony.
thank you
by chicago030 on Nov 6, 2010 5:33 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Looking on the bright side (piggy backing on what some others have said here).
I’m actually pretty encouraged by this team so far. Given the following issues:
(1) Rotational adjustments by a rookie coach
(2) Confusion on offense/defense
(3) Lack of consistent scoring outside of Rose
(4) An almost entirely new group of players adjusting to one another
The Bulls have still managed to put themselves in a reasonable position (albeit needing a few comebacks) to win each game. Add to that the ridiculously efficient 3-point scoring by the Knicks and the foul disparities in the Celtics game, and this team is on track to be very good.
I guess my point is… what Noah said.
i was in the boat for korver starting over bogans
but korver is so absolutely lost on defense. everything he gives us on one end he gives up on the other end.
Save us Melo.
Wow, I'm a dumbass
did not even see this in the recced fanposts. Should’ve been front-paged, my bad.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 7, 2010 12:41 PM CST reply actions
Bogans
….there was a play, when he chased after the ball and called a timeout, and i think bulls fans were like “YEY BOGANS!!!”….the thing is….the chase started after rondo through ray allen a bad pass, the pass tipped off of allens finger and his alone….and continued to travel towards the backcourt….in other words..bogans had no reason to chase the ball, the ball wouldve either ended up out of bounds, or ended up a backcourt violation had ray allen touched it….instead bogans exerted energy, caught the ball and rolled (travel) and was lucky enough to give the time out signal just before his body crossed the baseline….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V5r9vahv3o
1:07 mark to see the play
And that describes bogans to me perfectly, pretty worthless, and deceptive in what he brings to the table, when actually, he does a lot of nothing
I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!
It was nice hustle…Smart? Not so much.
Bogans did give Allen a chance to rest a lot on defense, and be available for double teams because he didn’t have to account for Bogans’ “offense”. So I guess he helped (Boston) some… Keep in mind, I think he actually had a decent game (for him). Don’t worry, Brewer will go a long ways towards making sure Ray doesn’t torch us next time. Bogans time as the starter/ big minutes guy is probably coming to an end soon.

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