(Preseason) Mavs 88, Bulls 83: Savvy vets Bogans and Thomas, Bad rebounding a trend?
I didn't catch most of the second half, but up until that point I did write some stuff down (it happens):
- Bulls started out real hot in the first quarter, but there were still some inside shots missed. It was even pointed out in the broadcast as a problem in the first game, and seeing Noah make a nice face-up drive only to be blocked just cemented it: without Boozer, the paint production will look a like last year. For his part, Noah made the same move in the second half and converted. He's getting more confident in his face-up game, and with his shot improving every season it truly makes him a threat now.
- Also big early was the three-point shooting, and Keith Bogans went 3-3 in the game from there. Deng also had a nice corner-three in the first half. It's so nice to see, but it shows how much it'll be needed all season. Even Korver only was 1-3. And while I'm excited to have Ronnie Brewer back, that will remove even more 3-pointers from the offense (not saying it won't be better overall instead of Bogans). Rose also took a few three-pointers (and missed) but it's looking like there was no magic summer improvement on that front (not that it should've been expected).
- In addition to Bogans in the realm of the vets, Kurt Thomas also looked good. (I used the word 'savvy' tonight since CSNChicago's Aggrey Sam used it twice to compliment the guy). I was especially impressed by his ability to pass in the high post. Clearly a smart player, and he's put up decent big man assist rates in his career, so I can see how he can be used as a sub for Noah in the offense while running similar things.
- Also of note for Thomas is that he came in the game before Omer Asik (so did Scal, ugh). But again, and maybe it's low expectations, but Asik is intriguing to watch. He won't be exactly fluid on offense, but he made a couple nice defensive plays and he can run down the court hard.
- CJ Watson didn't play, so John Lucas was the backup PG. And he showed why he's the 3rd string PG. I'll give Lucas one thing, he was aggressive looking for his shot. So he can be a smaller version of Pargo, without the Pargo spell that was cast on coaches in thinking he was good: nobody expects Lucas to play much.
- James Johnson had a nice stretch in the 2nd quarter with three straight jumpers, but I see now they were his only points of the game. And even those shots weren't exactly in the flow of the offense, they'd be derided as 'bad shots' by Neil/Stacy if they missed, or if he was Danilo Gallinari.
- Also on the non-guaranteed front, Kyle Weaver's first-half contribution wasn't bad at all.
- How about Dallas' bench. Jason Terry, JJ Barea, Shawn Marion, Tyson Chandler. Tax-paying has its benefits, if not efficiencies.
- Go Thibs.
- Bulls gave up 18 offensive rebounds tonight, and KC Johnson mentioned it as a focus of Thibodeau post-game. It's an early concern because rebounding was supposed to be a strength of this team. Another area where Boozer helps, obviously.
132 comments
|
1 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
we could totally pull off this kind of shit rebounding only with more offense if we had melo
This may go down as the most retarded decade in NBA history.
stop being a bit
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 7, 2010 11:59 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
you gotta admit that rebouding is looking mighty terrible though
This may go down as the most retarded decade in NBA history.
Didn't the Celtics have the same problem last year giving up offensive rebounds?
Maybe it’s less of a personnel issue and more of a defensive scheme issue.
"Did Michael Jordan join the Pistons when he couldn't beat them? No. He dug down deep and went out and kicked their fucking ass."
Rebounding is hussel, timing and a bit of luck.
Like Thibs said you can’t watch you’ve got to fight.
[O-MAIR A-SHEEK]
Plus Noah didn't play his minutes
And boozington didn’t play. And their bench has guys like Marion and Chandler.
I'm cuckoo for Kukoc!!!
by Yibs on Oct 8, 2010 8:01 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Noah had 8 boards in 19 minutes
that is very nice. I’m not worried about rebounds. That is a hole we can get out with ease
by JustAnotherFan on Oct 8, 2010 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions
acutally now that I saw (ESPN box score) Jo was amazing
8 rebounds, 14 points, 6 assists, 3 steals in 19 minutes!!! Wow
Is that right?
by JustAnotherFan on Oct 8, 2010 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions
People need to quit acting like Noah isn't our best player
Superteams suck.
by Juiceboxjerry on Oct 8, 2010 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions
Well, he isn't.
At least, he isn’t the most talented player on the Bulls roster.
If you can find a single player in the NBA that leaves more on the floor than Noah, though, I’d be impressed.
It's about time people recognized the difference between most productive and most talented.
Ed Farmer will tell you hit hit the ball hard all season and could have easily hit .310. Ed Farmer is an idiot.
by Ozzie Montana on Oct 8, 2010 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
just doing dumb math and wondering if he could
double those number in 38 minutes. Then he would be best C in the league hehe
by JustAnotherFan on Oct 8, 2010 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah
the mavs announcers were talking about him getting a triple double.. one actually guaranteed he’ll get one this season.
I'm cuckoo for Kukoc!!!
he may be capable of a quadrupel double
against a really bad offense….
pts/rebounds/blks/assists.
I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!
Rebounding is having good rebounders
Taj surprised on that end last year so I’m not too worried. But the bench rebounding may be pretty bad.
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 8, 2010 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions
Well Kurt Thomas is an excellent rebounder, and Asik should be at least decent
The bench rebounding should be fine, as long as Scalabrine doesn’t play.
So, moral of the story: don’t play Scalabrine.
Pat Riley is the devil.
by Poloplaya14 on Oct 8, 2010 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Boozer was supposed to help a lot on the defensive side of things
He’s a big guy that takes up space, I’m sure we’ll improve on the defensive glass when he returns. Taj was never the greatest defensive rebounder, so I’m not sure why we should expect massive improvement with the same lineup as last year. Also, it’s only been a couple games.
In his postgame, Thibs also mentioned other players needing to stay in and battle for boards instead of leaking out on the break. I personally think he was talking about Derrick who has a tendency to stand still or leak out when there’s a rebound to be had. He’s not the worst, but he could definitely improve (also, box out better). If anyone’s interested I recommend going to the Buls website and listening to his interview. A lot of interesting stuff, he definitely knows what he’s talking about, which is a nice change.
Superteams suck.
by Juiceboxjerry on Oct 8, 2010 12:23 AM CDT up reply actions
here's this
We have guys taking off early trying to get on the break. They need to get in the fight first."
[O-MAIR A-SHEEK]
or even Kirk Hinrich
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 8, 2010 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Yea, that's the better quote I was thinking of
I don’t see anything wrong with Thibs wanting Rose to be more like Rondo. Rose could benefit greatly from doing a few of the things Rondo does.
Superteams suck.
by Juiceboxjerry on Oct 8, 2010 1:29 AM CDT up reply actions
True enough
Rose already has a better jumper than Rondo, can finish better, create his own shot better, and is more athletic. That said, Rondo is the better passer and rebounder. I don’t think Rose has figured out that if he gets the rebound, he could probably still start the fast break. I remember one time last year where he grabbed a board, looked downcourt, and saw the other team taking their time getting back. He ended up getting a fastbreak layup. No reason that shouldn’t happen more often.
"Mental toughness is to physical as four is to one." - Bob Knight
Sorry, that's a little too objective for me.
Please never compare Derrick to Rajon unfavorably again, regardless of the truth of your statement. ;)
Oh, that one was painful to write, trust me.
Superteams suck.
by Juiceboxjerry on Oct 8, 2010 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions
that's something interesting to watch, how they run vs. 'staying and fighting'
tough balance, since we supposedly want to run more. But if anything there’s no excuse for Rose to leak out, he should have the ball first on the break most times anyway.
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 8, 2010 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions
Thibs has to be critical of Derrick
I assume he sees the same stuff as us, Derrick’s not aggressively looking to get to the line, passing at the top of the key and not moving around on offense.
I think his defense looks much improved and his mid-range jumper is perfect; but he could be incredible if he just worked on his offensive game a bit.
I saw T2 at Walgreens in Deerfield he’s tall. if you’re wondering what his grocery list included: magnums, french vanilla ice cream and a 20 oz sprite
by Super-Structure on Oct 8, 2010 12:41 AM CDT reply actions
Wade and James can't shoot, but Kobe can...
…and Wade and James are better overall offensive players.
I’m starting to wish Derrick didn’t work on his 3’s as much as the art of drawing fouls.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
I'll be really sad if we don't pick up Kyle Weaver
he was on the Thunder, and he’s really steady. His only knock really is that he’s bad from long range from what I remember, but he’s heady and just generally good.
The Clippers fired the second-worst coach in basketball so they could hire the worst coach in basketball!
by Prevenge on Oct 8, 2010 12:53 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
He's 34.8% from 3-pt land over his career
Although that’s only 112 attempts. The problem is that that’s pretty much all he does on offense, sorta like Bogans.
Pat Riley is the devil.
He was more diversified his first year
His minutes just got cut in Oklahoma I think … glut? I dunno.
The Clippers fired the second-worst coach in basketball so they could hire the worst coach in basketball!
in one of the Thunder blogs
he is referred to as a Thabo clone
don't let the bed bugs bite
by Rex Grossman on Oct 8, 2010 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions
I enjoyed the minutes he spent on the floor with the first team..
In the second quarter…he is aggressive on D – and plays within himself on O…he would be the type of end of bench player I would like to keep…but, the Bulls already have a lot of depth at the 2…
Can't wait to see Boozer and Rose running pick and roll...err...
We have depth at the 2?
That’s news to me. Last i checked, brewer was hurt, korver and watson are better suited to play other positions and, as a result, we’re starting Bogans, the man with the 7.7 PER. Having a lot of SGs does not equal depth. Having a lot of quality SGs equals depth.
Pat Riley is the devil.
And Kyle Weaver helps that?
I think the point is that they already have plenty of low-quality 2’s.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Well he's young enough where he could improve and get to the point where he is a good 2
No harm in keeping him around.
Pat Riley is the devil.
Kinda funny isn't it?
Bulls went from the Suns wide open run and gun to the Celtics slow it down half court sets. I’m interested to see how this effects Rose. While Luol Deng may like this offense I think Rose becomes more of a passing point guard. Anyways only two games.
[O-MAIR A-SHEEK]
isnt it good if rose becomes a true point guard though?
i mean after all we did draft a point guard. i would rather rose be dishing out 10-15 apg consistently than scoring 30+ ppg every night
This may go down as the most retarded decade in NBA history.
by sin on Oct 8, 2010 1:17 AM CDT up reply actions
Points are points
Does it really matter which player scores them?
Kind of, yes.
Ideally, you have players (plural) scoring them rather than just one guy. A great PG can turn anyone in the offense into a scorer, which is really valuable.
Tou have to be a good passer, to be a "passing point guard" (at least a good one)
Not saying Rose can’t be, but he certainly hasn’t shown it yet. I can’t figure out if he’s just not that good, or if he’s afraid to make mistakes. The thing where he drives, and wildly kicks the ball out is not good basketball.
Superteams suck.
by Juiceboxjerry on Oct 8, 2010 1:18 AM CDT up reply actions
Wow
I usually agree or can at least see the reason in some of the things you say, but this is just nuts! How has Rose shown he is not a good passer? Last year he had an AST% over 30 while keeping his TOV% less than 13. That is freakin amazing for a 2nd year, very young PG! The reason he wasn’t racking up assists is because he was the primary scorer on a team with nobody else that could score! There is no evidence to show that he could not develop into a great passer if that’s the role he was asked to play. Is he ever going to be CP3 or even Deron, probably not. But I would consider LeBron James an excellent passer and Rose’s passing numbers from last year are very similar to what LeBron’s were his early years in the league.
"Mental toughness is to physical as four is to one." - Bob Knight
by DRose01 on Oct 8, 2010 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well, if Rose is gonna be a superstar
and best player on a championship team, he needs to get his assists near the Williams-Paul level, not the Lebron level. Because Lebron also does about 10 other things better than Derrick, and he isn’t a point guard.
Also, I never said Derrick was a terrible passer, he’s serviceable. But I’m not judging him as a serviceable player, he’s already passed that test. Management has shown they want to build a team around this guy, therefore standards must be higher or we’ll be looking at first and second round exits for a while.
Superteams suck.
by Juiceboxjerry on Oct 8, 2010 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions
The Bulls ran up tempo the past two years and it didn't mean anything. All they did was just play hot potato and someone took a jumper.
If you think structured half-court sets are bad for young players, just look at Deron Wiliams.
Ed Farmer will tell you hit hit the ball hard all season and could have easily hit .310. Ed Farmer is an idiot.
by Ozzie Montana on Oct 8, 2010 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions
Except the Jazz have routinely been one of the faster-paced teams in the league
Not sure what that means, but it’s worth pointing out.
Pat Riley is the devil.
They've gotten faster every year since Deron was drafted.
So it was a gradual build up to running an offense that best suits his talents. For the first few years of his career they were methodical and ran exactly what Sloan wanted. Now Williams has a ton of room for improvisation and calling his own sets.
Ed Farmer will tell you hit hit the ball hard all season and could have easily hit .310. Ed Farmer is an idiot.
by Ozzie Montana on Oct 8, 2010 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions
Here's the quote from Thibs talking about fouls and the "smalls" needing to rebound:
"The defense was a little bit better. I liked the start of the game," said Bulls coach Tom Thibodeau. "I thought we got off to a good start. We were executing the play on both ends of the floor. But we’re nowhere near being a 48-minute team, and that’s what we have to do to be successful. We have to gang rebound. Our smalls aren’t helping, our bigs aren’t driving back, so right now (rebounding is) a team problem that we’ve got to work on. It’s hard to run if you are not rebounding. I’d like to see us get to the line more. I think we have to drive the ball with more force. We’ve got to make the officials make the calls. We’re bailing out at the end and flipping the ball up. You’re not going to get calls when you play like that."
I really like hearing that last part. It sounds like that will be a point of emphasis under Thibs.
Also, here’s another jewel from Sam:
It seems fairly obvious to me, though it is early, that the two free agent roster spots should go to Scalabrine and Weaver
That’s strange, because it seems fairly obvious to me that Scalabrine should be watching the games from his couch like I am.
Superteams suck.
by Juiceboxjerry on Oct 8, 2010 1:26 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs
Yeah I love reading the last part as well.
The thing with Scals is he’s like Thibs helper. He’s the guy that gets brought over to have Thibs back and show the players how he wants things done. It makes sense. He’s kinda like Thibs right hand man. He’s just not good.
[O-MAIR A-SHEEK]
I guess
But that right hand man has gotten a lot of run these past couple games. If they want him there to be a cheerleader, and essentially another coach, I really don’t have a huge problem with it, but he should not get any playing time unless it’s an emergency.
Superteams suck.
by Juiceboxjerry on Oct 8, 2010 1:34 AM CDT up reply actions
the fact that he is pretty much the back up 4 right now
has me worried. He is overmatched physically on defense and simply not good enough a shooter to be a plus on offense. I thought Thomas would be the backup 4 but he is being used almost exclusively at the 5.
by Basketball Smurf on Oct 8, 2010 1:37 AM CDT up reply actions
Yea, Asik should back up the 5
and have Kurt backup the 4 (and 5). Even if Asik is bad, he can’t be worse than putting Scalabrine out there. Plus, if you’re gonna be bad, why not develop someone that figures to be here for a while?
Superteams suck.
by Juiceboxjerry on Oct 8, 2010 1:42 AM CDT up reply actions
That's a great quote from Thibs
It will be nice to have a coah who is going to tell Derrick to get his ass to the line more.
Although the rebounding issue is important, Noah grabbed 8 in only 19 minutes. The rebounding would have been better with Noah in the whole game. But ya, Derrick needs to rebound.
"Mental toughness is to physical as four is to one." - Bob Knight
Rec'd for a good recap of an otherwise meaningless game.
Though, there seemed to be a tinge of intensity from both teams during that third quarter. It was Regular season intensity, but at least that’s higher than preseason intensity. Nonetheless, I took notice of a bunch of things from watching:
—It was nice seeing Luol Deng operate within this offense. I forgot how effective he can be when there is a purpose for him. When Luol was on, he moved off the ball like an all-pro tight end looking for weaknesses in the defense (space), and his corner three ball looked good. But watching Luol, even in this meaningless preseason game, only reminded me of the main criticism of him: he disappears as the game goes along. I don’t know if it’s him losing interest or focus or what, but Thibs should be ready to give him a quick hook when that sort of thing happens. In this case it could have been he lost interest because it was, you know, a preseason game. But seeing Luol reminded me that it’s something to watch, and he wasn’t real effective during that “meaningful” third quarter.
—The emphasis on the corner three reminds me of how the Spurs always stress that shot. It is the shortest three point distance outside the arc and a straight shot. It seems like an obvious strategy, but so few teams stress it on offense.
—As YFBB mentioned, Asik (7’0" 255LBS) moves really well for someone that big. I was watching the Nets vs Celtics and by comparison Brook Lopez (7’0" 265LBS) seemed a lot slower than Asik. Lopez is better in every single other area as a Basketball player though, I just wanted to make sure I pointed that out in case of confusion. Asik has no touch nor does he have any clue what the hell is going on around him, but dag nabbit, he’s big and fast. We’ll see what happens with him. He’s definitely a project.
—I loved seeing the use of the flex plays. They really take advantage of the passing ability of the Bulls’ big men. Especially Joakim (6 assists).
—The funniest part of the game was listening to Neil get angry when Rick Carlisle brought Dirk back in the game (to serve as a big decoy). Neil seemed so flustered that it ensured Dallas would win that I thought he would say something along the lines of “I hope Dirk breaks down because of the minutes he played in this game. It would serve the Mavs right for denying the Bulls this preseason win.” In terms of strategy it was defensible. Dirk wasn’t looking for any offense (though he did start taking shots once the Bulls left him wide open) or playing defense (not sure if this was a change from the norm), he was just in there to intimidate/draw attention. Coaches can’t treat their players like glass that is inevitably going to break. If you can grab a cheap preseason win for the sake of not having to eventually worry about wondering why the team hasn’t won a preseason game, you do it. Basketball is an emotional game that demands constant focus from the players, and negativity leads to a lack of focus.
—In a related note Rose played 31 minutes, while Nowitzki played 35. Hmmm.
—The new defense seems to put an emphasis on making sure every shot is contested. As a result, the Bulls are going to give up more offensive rebounds. The benefit is that their opponents will shoot a lower percentage overall because of the higher number of contested shots. Bulls need to find a balance so that the offensive rebounds grabbed by the opposition don’t completely mitigate the strategy of causing opponents to shoot a lower percentage. A reason that Rajon Rondo has been so valuable to Boston is that he can grab rebounds for them when a big comes out to contest a midrange jumper. Can Derrick be that guy? Thibs seems to like “gang rebounding” to solve this, whatever that means.
—Brian Scalabrine is the least athletic player I have ever seen play the NBA, but I get why Thib is giving him so many preseason minutes. He understands how to play in the system and he’s probably serving as a auxiliary teacher of how to operate the way Thibs wants the team to. Hopefully Scal’s usefulness runs out soon and the key guys grasp things quickly because I hate watching him. I don’t like watching any NBA player who I think is less athletic than me.
—I know he went 3-for-3 tonight, but I don’t trust Bogans to sustain shooting like that At one point or another the Bulls are probably going to need someone to hit those shots consistently. Korver could be that guy (despite sucking tonight), but he doesn’t seem comfortable playing shooting guard. My money is on Watson, though a trade may be the best way to address this.
—Oh and Kyle Weaver looks like he can play for reals. I wanna see more Weaver.
The Funk Might Fracture Your Nose
by chibullsareback on Oct 8, 2010 2:08 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Great points
I loved seeing the use of the flex plays. They really take advantage of the passing ability of the Bulls’ big men. Especially Joakim (6 assists).
This is one of the big reasons why Joakim earned his extension and the Bulls were wise to keep him. If it were just amazing rebounding and great defense, he is very valuable, but not as much so because he’d be an offensive liability. Noah was able to create 25 points for the Bulls last night (13 scoring, 12 on assists). Throw in 8 rebounds (including 3 offensive) and that is quite the game. Noah is an excellent big man, and I can’t wait to see him and Boozer playing together. I really think it’s going to be something special.
"Mental toughness is to physical as four is to one." - Bob Knight
Completely agree...
Noah looked incredible with the offense running through him in the high post…he made excellent decisions with the ball and threaded some really nice passes. The Bulls used Kurt Thomas in the same way later in the game, and as yfBB noted, he was savvy in his passing…
Can't wait to see Boozer and Rose running pick and roll...err...
One thing about the Thibs era
Is he makes me long for the days of Malik Allen with how much he’s playing “Scal”….
Oh well that better go away in reg season.
I thought we played well tonight when it was our main guys.
I felt Shawn Marion is totally awful these days, what a shell of his former self.
I was shocked to see Carlisle trot out Dirk and keep Terry out there against our scrubs in the 4th quarter.
I know we “lost” but like the game before, I think in reg season that’s a different story (presuming of course “Scal” doesn’t play the seemingly 25 minutes a game he seems to be there).
John Lucas III looked downright awful for much of the game, but he did have that nifty little teardrop move in the 3rd quarter.
I like Korver, Korver didn’t play quite as much as he did game 1, but he seems to have a sense for his role in Thibs offense already.
Bogans played great yesterday.
And Rose/Noah look poised to do more when it matters. Noah looked great.
Still play of hte game for me was Kyle Weaver’s block (Asik’s was #2), I’d give that guy a contract….in the “he better than JJ” mold.
2010-2011: I put the Scottie-Barkley Rockets feud curse on the Wade-James-Bosh trio.....
So Derrick took 15 shots to get 17 points, had 0 rebounds, and just 2 assists?
Same ol’ Derrick. Sigh
The Chicago Bulls hate shooting ability.
by fundamentallysound on Oct 8, 2010 9:21 AM CDT reply actions
like JbJ said up there
we need to accept that while Derrick is still our best source of total offense, Noah is our best player.
I got the skills to pay the bills and that's about it
by Rose Colored Goggles on Oct 8, 2010 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions
There's, um, a few that have at least argued that it's far closer than most want to think.
I’ve said, “It’s funny that people derided Ben Gordon because he was all offense and little else. On the other hand, people are wont to anoint Rose as something great, when he’s a dribbling version of Gordon. Yet, Noah doesn’t shoot well, but he does pretty much everything else very well.”
Fans are stupid?
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Yeah I guess...
it’s a good point you bring up about Gordon — everyone was so quick to dismiss him as one-dimensional.
I mean, do you think it would be different for Derrick if A.) he wasn’t from Chicago and B.) he played shooting guard instead of the point?
I got the skills to pay the bills and that's about it
by Rose Colored Goggles on Oct 8, 2010 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions
I think the difference is pretty clear
Rose’s career AST%: 29.5
Gordon’s career AST%: 17.3
Pat Riley is the devil.
For Rose to reach his utmost effectiveness on offense
he needs to have a ast% over 35. I think he will get there. Wade has a career ast% of 34.8. Billups was shocking low – 28.7.
by Basketball Smurf on Oct 8, 2010 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions
That's true,Rose is asked to pass.
But he hasn’t yet scored as well as gordon did.
The two have turned the ball over the same amount. Obviously, with more passing, one would expect Gordon to turn it over more. I wonder if Gordon had been the PG from the very beginning, if his better shooting would have offset the greater TO’s.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
I have been saying this for the last two years.
The Chicago Bulls hate shooting ability.
by fundamentallysound on Oct 8, 2010 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions
maybe acknowledge it, but not accept it
Rose has to be better
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 8, 2010 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions
that's a good way to put it
We won’t be winning any championships with Noah as our most productive starter.
I got the skills to pay the bills and that's about it
by Rose Colored Goggles on Oct 8, 2010 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions
That's fine, and there's a difference.
I see the difference in stating that he is better and desperately needing him to be.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Well the real question isn't who's better
but what you value as being more important, what Noah does wee or what Rose does well. Some would say that rebounding, though important, isn’t as important as scoring or running PG. So just because Noah is better at his craft, doesn’t necessarily make him the best player on the team.
Yeah but it worked!
and someone would saying that scoring, though important, isn't as important as rebounding and anchoring a D
see how that works?
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
If you watched the game his lack of assists is the same old story. He's finding guys for good looks and they're just bricking.
The long 2 pointers are starting to worry me.
Ed Farmer will tell you hit hit the ball hard all season and could have easily hit .310. Ed Farmer is an idiot.
by Ozzie Montana on Oct 8, 2010 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions
And his defense is looking much, much better.
He actually does stuff now, it’s kind of odd.
Ed Farmer will tell you hit hit the ball hard all season and could have easily hit .310. Ed Farmer is an idiot.
by Ozzie Montana on Oct 8, 2010 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions
He fights harder to stay in front of guys
and not get burned, but I still don’t think he plays great defense. He’s not making anyone uncomfortable out there. I don;‘t think he could really bother any above average player for long stretches of games. He’s definitely improved a little though. Hopefully he keeps working at it. He has to be a little more physical at times. Stop worrying about fouling someone.
Superteams suck.
by Juiceboxjerry on Oct 8, 2010 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions
I thought he looked good
its just a preseason game, i think he will be fine. Guys have to knock down open shots. I thought his defense was good and I thought he made quick decisions with the ball. He didn’t over dribble. It looked to me as if he could have turned it on and really attacked if it was a regular season game.
by Basketball Smurf on Oct 8, 2010 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't buy this argument at all
So, that means Chris Paul, Steve Nash, Rondo and Deron WIlliams are all surrounded by deadly shooters that just make everything he throws their way? I don’t think so. Great point guards make players better shooters because they give them the ball in spots where they are most effective, as well as setting them up for dunks and layups.
Most of the time Rose just wildly flings the ball to the first open man he sees. There’s a difference between passing the ball to an open player, and setting someone up. In fact, the actual pass is the least important part of it a lot of the time. It’s the way the player knows how to use his talent (in Derrick’s case speed and handles) to get other players open, and feed them the ball.
Superteams suck.
by Juiceboxjerry on Oct 8, 2010 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
So much truth in that post...
I got the skills to pay the bills and that's about it
by Rose Colored Goggles on Oct 8, 2010 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions
nash and rondo are (surrounded by deadly shooters)
and finishers. and amare tops boozer there.
but yeah, rose is either too careful with the ball or lacks vision. draw-two-men-and-dish timing.
you’re still a worrywart, however.
The name of the team is ARIZONA DIAMONDBACKS - "I tried to convince them that what they were doing was an aberration, an imbecility, a stupidity without name"
Out of all those guys Chris Paul is the only one who can lay claim to worse offensive talent than Rose.
So you’re not exactly disproving anything. Rose clearly lacks the vision of the elite PGs as evidenced by his lack of ability to find big men in the paint for easy buckets but that doesn’t mean he’s getting short shrift passing to below average wing players.
Ed Farmer will tell you hit hit the ball hard all season and could have easily hit .310. Ed Farmer is an idiot.
by Ozzie Montana on Oct 8, 2010 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions
Dude, just use the eye test!
I mean, I don’t want to harp on this, and keep ripping Rose, because I really do like him a ton and want to see him get better, but do you seriously think he’s on their level passing wise? All stats aside, just look at them and you can see how much better they are. I’m still holding out hope that a new coach can make a difference, but the Olympics, and now this preseason, aren’t exactly encouraging. Bottom line, he needs to get better in a few key areas this year. If it’s not passing, it’s scoring, because, as is, he’s just not good enough to take us deep in the playoffs.
Superteams suck.
by Juiceboxjerry on Oct 8, 2010 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't know if I agree with this, but
I don’t disagree with it. Mostly, I’m just not sure how important it is. I always heard about Kidd making sure he knew where each teammate liked to catch the ball, and it makes sense. My view though, is that an open guy should be able to hit a shot. A well placed pass means that the ensuing shot can go up quickly, but if a guy has time to gather himself, then all that matters is the ball getting there.
I think it remains to be seen how effective Rose can be as a passer. He has to be more willing before he can be more effective. Like any other stat, assists totals can be padded. And my view is that a point guard’s main job is creating offense, not getting assists. There’s something to be said about being able to get in the lane and drawing two defenders so that a missed layup can be gobbled up by Joakim for a put back. Those shots don’t count as assists, but they really serve the same purpose.
The Funk Might Fracture Your Nose
by chibullsareback on Oct 8, 2010 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions
This is retarded
Deron Williams had an AST% of 28 his rookie season and he was playing for fucking Jerry Sloan! That guy has an amazing system in place. Rose posted an AST% better than Williams and a TOV% better than Williams and he was playing for Vinny fucking Del Negro! And yes, the lack of shooters and inside finishers makes a difference. Noah is effective, but actually has been a poor inside finisher (one of the worst centers in the league).
"Mental toughness is to physical as four is to one." - Bob Knight
by DRose01 on Oct 8, 2010 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Buls
It still remains, who will pick up the slack now that Boozers gone until January
by Jeffrey Thompson on Oct 8, 2010 9:30 AM CDT reply actions
Are we still supposed to pretend Taj is a good rebounder? Because he's not.
Seemingly every loose ball ended up in Dallas’ hands. This team needs another big and has cap space, not signing Dampier is stupid.
Ed Farmer will tell you hit hit the ball hard all season and could have easily hit .310. Ed Farmer is an idiot.
by Ozzie Montana on Oct 8, 2010 9:39 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
well KC implied the question was whether they would sign Dampier
or leave that cap space open for something like a Rudy trade. At this point, I don’t know who would be more valuable. But if you traded JJ and a 1st for Rudy – than it wouldn’t be a problem.
by Basketball Smurf on Oct 8, 2010 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions
Ok, yeah, that makes sense too
I got the skills to pay the bills and that's about it
by Rose Colored Goggles on Oct 8, 2010 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions
just add in
Dwight Lewis, Seth Tarver, R.Sykes or any of the other 10 players Portland has signed on non guaranteed contracts
by Basketball Smurf on Oct 8, 2010 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions
But aren't you not allowed to trade newly signed players?
Otherwise there’d be a pretty massive loophole (sign players to big non-guaranteed contracts and trade them solely for purposes of matching salaries).
Pat Riley is the devil.
That is probably true
Jeff Pendergraph is in the last year of his contract and is out for the year. He and Rudy for JJ and a #1 pick works.
by Basketball Smurf on Oct 8, 2010 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree, we should grab Dampier while we can.
I got the skills to pay the bills and that's about it
by Rose Colored Goggles on Oct 8, 2010 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions
I wonder how much of the Dampier talk is coming from Thibs
If there’s one thing we know about him, it’s that he’s coached on teams that value big men because they anchor the defense and rebound the ball. He’s probably looking at his current front court and shaking his head.
Superteams suck.
by Juiceboxjerry on Oct 8, 2010 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions
Taj needs a bigger lunch pail
I haven’t heard Thibs praise Taj yet. I haven’t seen the two games thus far, but the numbers look like he’s probably out of position or just getting outworked athletically.
I can predict the future using Norm Van Lier's crystal balls.
"Sam has a tendency to denigrate reports coming from any reporter who didn’t also cover the day Naismith first put up the peach baskets." - snley
by NBA Observer on Oct 8, 2010 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions
Taj is a mediocre talent
he always was. He simply isn’t big or strong enough to hold his position when it comes to defensive rebounding, and with the way the Bulls are defending, he too often finds himself down there 1 on 1 with a bigger guy and he can’t grab the rebound. Taj has 4 defensive rebounds in 39 minutes of play. He may be hurting or he may just be weak. If we do sign Dampier, I’d be okay with him starting until Boozer got back.
by Basketball Smurf on Oct 8, 2010 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
That's the major liability
Taj, one on one, for a defensive rebound is a horrible bet. He’s only going to grab 25% of those. I really hope Thibs gets some public comments out about this. King and Funk just slobber over Taj.
I can predict the future using Norm Van Lier's crystal balls.
"Sam has a tendency to denigrate reports coming from any reporter who didn’t also cover the day Naismith first put up the peach baskets." - snley
by NBA Observer on Oct 8, 2010 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions
hes an alright player but i definitely think hes one of hte major reasons why we have trouble rebounding
Usually noah has to fight for everything vs two opposing players. Taj just gets those fall in ur lap type rebounds, cuz hes undersized and cant jump. I wish we’d just offer him for Rudy and promote Kurt thomas to the starting lineup till Booze comes back.
I think it's more that Taj was surprisingly adequate
and the Bulls collectively were good on the defensive glass last season. But then again Tyrus was around for much of the season, which helped.
Maybe Taj has his career year, he was an old rookie after all :)
Anyway, moral of the story is that you’re correct: Sign Dampier.
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 8, 2010 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions
gross!
i guess i’ll let you sign damp if they trade taj for rudy though
ugh, damps…
The name of the team is ARIZONA DIAMONDBACKS - "I tried to convince them that what they were doing was an aberration, an imbecility, a stupidity without name"
Sign Dampier and Rod Benson.
There was little reason NOT to trade Taj for Rudy if that’s what everyone wanted (we can speculate on the latter at this point).
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
maybe no teams want dampier 'cause he's fat again?
i don’t like dampier and see him as a big fat potential problem, but maybe that’s just me, watching tons of western conference the last several years.
sooo…. if you saddle the roster with ericka, you gotta give me something! i was okay with everything up to bogans. the rudy trade is merely an example of one something.
The name of the team is ARIZONA DIAMONDBACKS - "I tried to convince them that what they were doing was an aberration, an imbecility, a stupidity without name"
how about a guy like this div 2 david lee lookin' dude
matt rodgers? i would guess he’s not guaranteed. the bull’s never seem to have a potential “find”….
The name of the team is ARIZONA DIAMONDBACKS - "I tried to convince them that what they were doing was an aberration, an imbecility, a stupidity without name"
that is possible
I’m still surprised the Heat didn’t go for it
BaB on Twitter | BaB on Facebook
"Don't nag, flag!"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 8, 2010 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Noah is great
If we stay healthy and can get most of the guys to play with the same enthusiasm as Noah every night, we’ll be ripping through the East like there’s no tomorrow!
weaver is better than all the bench dreck.
bogans, lucas, scal.
maybe not by a lot, but at least he’s not so far on the wrong side of the mediocrity line.
The name of the team is ARIZONA DIAMONDBACKS - "I tried to convince them that what they were doing was an aberration, an imbecility, a stupidity without name"
can weaver play point guard?
b/c if he could, he would be a good addition. As it is, I agree with Tyger, the Bulls have an awful lot of mediocre 2 guards. I think between Watson/Bogans/Korver/Brewer – everything he does well would be covered. But if he can play the point, than he adds a dimension the Bulls really need.
by Basketball Smurf on Oct 8, 2010 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions
i'm afraid that bogans and his guaranteed contract edges out weaver
don’t see weaver as a backup point, though he had two ast in his 6 mins i guess (didn’t watch game).
he’s pretty athletic and i think he’d be a smart addition as more reinforcement. deng, brewer and even korver aren’t exactly iron men.
The name of the team is ARIZONA DIAMONDBACKS - "I tried to convince them that what they were doing was an aberration, an imbecility, a stupidity without name"
Looking over Draftexpress's scouting reports, it seems that, coming out of college, people thought Weaver might be able to play PG in the NBA
However, this ability to penetrate demonstrates Weaver’s potential to be a point guard both at the college level and the professional level. While most combo guards settle for their own offense, Weaver is not only constantly moving in the Washington State offense, but he is also constantly thinking. He uses penetration to his advantage, and will kick the ball back to the perimeter if he the lane is too congested. He is the best passer on the Cougars and he uses a variety of passes, rarely throwing the ball away when deferring to his teammates. His offensive awareness allows him to find his own offense, but also to dictate the tempo of his team’s offense. He ranks in the top 10 of prospect shooting guards in assist to turnover ratio as well as in assists though he ranks very low in percentage of team possessions.
While he rarely is the primary ball handler, Weaver is a quarterback for this Washington State team. It remains to be seen whether or not his high basketball IQ will translate to him being able to play point guard at the next level, but he does a very good job at this level being a major facilitator. The Washington State offense requires him to play a role, one that unfortunately does not allow him to showcase his full ability.
From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/kyle-weaver-1253/#ixzz11msEhFV6
http://www.draftexpress.com
It seems like Weaver’s a good passer, but thus far, has been unable to really create for others since he’s just not quick enough to consistently penetrate.
Pat Riley is the devil.
funny that their "best case" comp for him was sefolosha
some okc games not in hd i saw, i momentarily confused him with thabo ( – thabo fan)
The name of the team is ARIZONA DIAMONDBACKS - "I tried to convince them that what they were doing was an aberration, an imbecility, a stupidity without name"
if thabo is your best case scenario
you shouldn’t be in the NBA.
also LMAO at thabo’s best case being josh howard. wtf?
I believe you have Thabo and Pargo confused.
by Grinder in Training on Oct 8, 2010 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
He really isn't awful though either.
And he’s surely good enough to be in the NBA. And if my 13th man is as good as Thabo I’m feeling pretty good.
by Grinder in Training on Oct 8, 2010 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Thabo started for a 50-win team last year
He might be the best perimeter defender in the league right now. He’s far from bad.
Pat Riley is the devil.
he started for a 50 win team last year
next to durant.
he’s not good. his offense is so bad it really doesn’t make up for his defensive skills.
i want to see something
that actually backs up the claim he makes a net positive contribution.
this is just my opinion, since i’m only basing it off of what i see, but his stats also don’t impress me either. i’m not a huge stat person and haven’t taken the time to put those that i’ve seen together, but i just haven’t really seen anything that actually backs that up.
plus it’s kind of a silly argument. after all, bogans started the majority of the games for the 50 win spurs. does that mean he’s any good? i don’t think too many people here would think so.
setups and pick and rolls
Ive always wondered why we never employ the pick and roll well.
It always seems like our guys are trying really hard to get open
for the ball but are not getting the picks they need to get open.
We should be able to get korver more open looks for his sweet
shot. Deng seems to get open at the 3pt line, so hopefully when
his shot starts falling that will relieve the pressure on korver when
he comes in.
Additionally why is it that James Johnson is always set up in the corner.
It seems like the only play that is run for him is: stand in the corner and
wait for someone else to shoot the shot, and then run in and try to slam it
in for the put back. Unfortunately it looks like he has lost some hops since
he has lost his weight so he doesn’t have that athletic punch to get him over
the top.
what is this, a sonnet?
"If I was to answer that question honestly, I would have to lie to you."
- Isiah Thomas, when asked if any teams were interested in trading for Shandon Anderson
by TheMoon on Oct 8, 2010 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
I know we lost
but i enjoed the game as a whole. We kept our scrubs in at the end and still looked decent against dirk and terry. Plus it was a good game to see what we need to work on. Rose got better, but his shot still sucks. Overall..i thought it was a solid C performance. Go Bulls
'pause' or 'no homo' not required here
it’s allllllll gay, if you think about it hard enough (and oh how I do)
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 7, 2010 4:37 PM EDT
who cares, weaver shouldnt play anyway
i wonder if scal will become a fan favorite in chicago like he is everywhere else hes played. i kinda doubt it, we seem to be more vicious towards crappy players

by 



















