Will the Bulls make .500?
[[Note by your friendly BullsBlogger, 01/10/10 7:06 PM CST ] From the fanposts. I missed both games this weekend so I can't really add much. I will say I've been pretty disappointed in the results over the past week, as the Orlando victory had me thinking this team was at least in position to be the best of the bad. Now, not only did they go 1-4 in games against the Thunder, Bobcats, Bucks, and Timberwolves, even that Orlando victory doesn't look too great. At least the schedule remains kind for Monday, with the woeful losing-streaked Pistons coming to town. -ed.]
So if any of you noticed, the Bulls stand 14-20, which is exactly their record last year at this time too.
Of course, we were 14-20 last season with Kurt hurt, Noah in terrible shape, Deng gimpy, Tyrus clueless, and Noc/Gooden instead of Salmons/Miller. Down the stretch we went 27-21 by:
* Going to Tyrus and for a short stretch, letting him play without looking over his shoulder
* Getting a healthy Kirk back
* Noah playing himself into shape
* Making a "win" now trade that cost us tax space to even consider re-signing Gordon, but bringing in three better fitting, more useful players than those who left.
I say that to outline the factors that led to our surge last year. What factors can we point to and say they're going to lead to obvious improvements going forward?
* Kirk's been healthy
* Deng's been healthy, and apparently is no longer healthy. His play is declining and the doctor's prescription for his injury was 6-8 weeks off.
* Tyrus is not being given the run he got last year
* Noah has played the best ball of his career
All this is to say I don't see the factors now that helped us last year. Unless we're going to make a trade that takes on a considerable amount of salary for next year. I suspect if we did that, we could certainly add this year's equivalents of Miller and Salmons and possibly do pretty well. Even that would be quite a gamble though.
There is quite a bit more analysis and statistics after the jump, but the jist of it seems summarized in the thoughts above. Unless the Bulls change the something pretty big, things are not going to happen for them.
We've had a running debate on S2, and I finally got around to looking at the Bulls schedule, and my game by game predictions (which I'm not going to bother to repost here since it's lengthy) landed the Bulls at 32-50. Ick. I successfully predicted our first three losses this week, but if it's any consolation I think we ought to win tonight against the TerribleWolves, who are terrible, also coming off a game last night, and on the road. But back to the bigger picture.
Another consideration is just how the bulls are playing. Following wjb1492's initiative in a game thread a while back, I looked up the Bulls' margin of victory for this year and last year.
Type W L W% %W %L %Type
0-5 9 12 43% 11% 15% 26%
6-10 15 12 56% 18% 15% 33%
>10 17 17 50% 21% 21% 41%
Type W L W% %W %L %Type
0-5 5 5 50% 15% 15% 30%
6-10 6 4 60% 18% 12% 30%
>10 3 10 23% 9% 30% 39%
What it says, I guess, is that the Bulls no longer ever seem capable of winning by a comfortable margin. Because they struggle so much to score, they have very little margin for error. Every game is going to be a nail biter. Unless we're getting our doors blown off, which we seem to do at about last year's rate.
Last year they were slightly worse at close games, but much more capable of winning by wider margins.
If I had to sum it up, I'd guess that Vinny is slightly better at coaching and he's got a crummier team to work with.
Think of it this way. If we made a very rough "quality of win" scale based on these margins, give 3 points for a victory of >10, 2 for 6-10, and 1 for 1-5. Then -1 for a loss of 1-5, then -2 and -3 for the worse losses. The average Bulls margin scale last year was 0.5. The average this year is -2.8.
A final thing I've looked up were our W-L profiles on 82Games. This shows how we do against Good (top 10 record), average (middle 10 record) and bad (bottom 10 record) teams. This year, we were, at last update:
| 09-10 | W | L | Net |
| Good | 4 | 9 | -11.7 |
| Avg | 4 | 7 | -4.9 |
| Bad | 6 | 1 | 6.7 |
| 08-09 | W | L | Net |
| Good | 8 | 17 | -6.8 |
| Avg | 16 | 14 | 2.9 |
| Bad | 17 | 10 | 2.2 |
This year our only positive has been that we seem to really beat up the worst teams. Our net point differential and winning margins against better teams, however, seem quite a bit worse. We used to beat other average teams, now we lose to them more. We used to keep things closer with the better teams.
All of this is to say, there's a lot of evidence, and what it tells me is not to expect the sort of massive turnaround the Bulls experienced last year.
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The optimist in my says you are wrong...
It is really tough being an optimistic Bulls fan sometimes.
I think the team will turn it around and get to .500. The early season schedule for the Bulls was particularly difficult (as it stands,the Bulls have currently played the 6th most difficult schedule). Add to the tough schedule injuries to two of our top 8 players (on a team with only 8 good players), and we have a team whose record is worse than it should be…
I will point to the games in which we have had a full compliment of players…Early in the season, the Bulls started an impressive 3-2 and with wins over San Antonio and Cleveland on the road, then Tyrus broke his arm and Kirk eventually hurt the thumb…the Bulls next had everyone healthy for a home game vs. New Orleans (the Bulls record had fallen to 10-17 by this point), they beat New Orleans to start a four game winning streak that included a victory of the defending Eastern Conference champs Orlando…
In the 12 games with a healthy roster, the Bulls are above .500 at 7-5, with victories over San Antonio, Cleveland, New Orleans and Orlando…in the 22 games played missing at least one rotation player, the Bulls are 7-15…
If the Bulls can continue to keep everyone healthy, I have reason to believe they can win the requisite 27 games it would take to get to .500. All they need is to continue the healthy pace of winning 7 out of every 12.
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
by Dionysus2.0 on Jan 9, 2010 1:28 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
the thing is, though: we knew this.
They had a 7-man rotation that couldn’t afford to lose anyone. Luckily, Gibson has proven to be a rotation player, but Miller, Salmons and Hinrich have barely put together any good stretch.
With Rose, Deng, Thomas, Gibson and Noah, they have 5 players of being decent. I don’t see how we can believe that they’ll all stay healthy.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
this is a given the Bulls suck from the players to organization to the twenty thousand fans who keep showing up
grammer geeks you make me sick
by angryandy on Jan 9, 2010 2:38 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
Anywaaaaays.....
It’s really too early to tell, the trade deadline is a long way away so you never know what could happen there, and this team as it stands, can be a .500 team, we need someone to become an x factor though. Could be Salmons finding his shot, could be Tyrus picking it up. There’s just too many loose ends to make a prediction. It’s sports, anything can happen.
by BigBabyCollin on Jan 10, 2010 10:31 PM CST up reply actions
With All Due Respect
I don’t know why Kelsey Grammer has to get involved in this. Let’s focus on basketball.
by lilzaky on Jan 11, 2010 10:25 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I doubt if many people felt that the Bulls would win 41 games at this point last year. If somebody had told me last Jan. 9th that the Bulls would win 41 games, and then push Boston(with or without Garnett) to a 7th game in the playoffs, I’d have said they were crazy. Lesson learned, I would not be too surprised by any result between 30 and 45 wins. It all depends on health, the continuing development of players, and maybe most important of all…the ability of Bulls management to take advantage of the opportunities that will come through the issues/distress of other teams(so I’m not overly confident that things will work out well).
Your prediction and stats are very sound
point differential is a fantastic indicator.
But……your conclusion of 32 wins is a worst case scenario. Hardly convincing.
As noted with a full roster we are 7-5.
We have to assume Kirk and Fish will Have to play better, can’t play worse, And Rose will continue to get better. Am I confident that will happen? No. Can it happen? Yes.
Plus Miller is saving himself for the playoffs, like Shaq.hehe.
East is weak. oh wait we’re part of that problem…
Good post
First off, regarding tonight against Minnesota, the Bulls have proved time and time again this year that there are no gimmees on their schedule. I mean, we lost to New Jersey at home for Christ sake, for their only road win of the year no less. And solid frontcourt guys usually have a field day with the Bulls, even the ones on terrible teams. I expect big numbers tonight from Big Al and Kevin Love.
That said, somehow, I can still see this team improve as the year goes on. To me, they just seem to be slow starters. Not sure how, but starting TT might be a step in the right direction.
3 pt shooting
Last years team made 493 of 1293 3 pt. attempts (.381 shooting). This years team, prorated for 82 games is on a pace for 302 of 904 attempts. (.334 shooting). By my calculator that is just about 7 points per game difference.
Gordon obviously accounts for most of the difference, but also Salmons shot better, and even guys like Noc, Hughes, and Tim Thomas chipped in.
Jerome James is getting paid $6.2M this year for sitting on the bench.
We miss you, Ben Gordon!
by Granny Waiters on Jan 10, 2010 9:01 PM CST up reply actions
Brad Miller is getting paid a lot also for being a spot aging reserve
Luol Deng is banking a ton to be a complainer, franchise player blocker and excuse maker
Hinrich has been going to the bank for quite a while now also
And all three of the highest paid players are expendable, without this sub-par team missing any significant beat!
"I tried being reasonable, I didn't like it."
"Go ahead, make my day"
"We boil at different degrees"
"A good man always knows his limitations"
"You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?"
See
http://hoopshype.com/salaries/chicago.htm
Correction: Jerome James has a $6.6M Player Option for 2009/2010.
We miss you, Ben Gordon!
by Granny Waiters on Jan 10, 2010 11:23 PM CST up reply actions
Remember Ben Wallace?
We’re still paying the price.
one more
skiles..i believe we are still paying skiles….
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
That is something that pisses me off.
WHAT KIND OF MORON does not include a clause that if Skiles is hired to coach another team he no longer gets paid by the Bulls. For such a cheap organization how did they miss that one???
The Dude Abides
I think they waived that provision in order to provide less guaranteed money
they probably thought Skiles would stay retired, so they could save a couple million. I think they figured Skiles was as much of a quitter as John Paxson.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 11, 2010 5:08 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
What makes you think the Bulls did not include that type of clause?
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
the fact that the Bulls are still paying him?
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
No, really. Kirk needs to GTFO. Trade his ass, GarPaxDorf.
by fundamentallysound on Jan 12, 2010 10:52 AM CST up reply actions
Brad Miller's our 3 pt threat!
He’s shooting 75% in January! And he’ll definitely keep this up!
"Oh, y ahora ¿quién podrá defenderme?" "¡Yo!"
by chapuforyou on Jan 11, 2010 1:13 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Funny thing about this team's 14-20 record last season.
The next game was a 99-94 victory over the Kings. These were the starting lineups:
Chicago
Aaron Gray, C
Tyrus Thomas, PF
Thabo Sefolosha, SF
Ben Gordon, SG
Derrick Rose, PG
Sacramento
Brad Miller, C
Mikki Moore, PF
John Salmons, SF
Kevin Martin, SG
Beno Udrih, PG
Smart people learn from their mistakes. Smarter people learn from the mistakes of others. - Raymond Stone
by RaymondStone.com on Jan 11, 2010 12:40 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
Joke:
John Salmons sucks so hard…..
Tiger Woods wants to meet him!
(This is a sig by a member)
If I think of nothing, am I thinking?
I gotta think that the ultimate BAB unity appeal
is to start ripping on John Salmons.
We have so many other factions between the Tyrus haters/loves, the Kirk haters/lovers, the Deng haters/lovers, and the Gordon haters/lovers. Certainly John Salmons’ lack of production can unite us all.
12/31/08: Fire Vinny Del Negro.(upd: 1/7/10)
by NBA Observer on Jan 11, 2010 9:47 AM CST up reply actions
I agree with the conclusion
but there’s plenty of reasons why the Bulls could improve this year like they did last year.
For one, Rose, Salmons, Hinrich, Taj, Tyrus all had terrible 1st months+ for us, and have played better since. Maybe Taj falls off a bit from his recent pace, but history says the others will likely give us more in the second half than they have so far. Luol and Noah will probably tail off a bit, but I’d still expect a net gain overall considering how bad some of our key cogs have been.
In another thread I noticed that every single Bulls player had a TS% below the NBA average. It’s laughable how much we underachieved early on. Whether we have enough to go 27-21 to finish at .500, I’d bet against it. But I think there’s more talent here than you’re giving credit for.
I blame this year's slide on no Chapu
"Oh, y ahora ¿quién podrá defenderme?" "¡Yo!"
by chapuforyou on Jan 11, 2010 1:09 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I have vague memories of hearing something fairly recent about the Bulls schedule.
The Bulls have had the 5th toughest schedule in the NBA so far.
Smart people learn from their mistakes. Smarter people learn from the mistakes of others. - Raymond Stone
by RaymondStone.com on Jan 11, 2010 1:47 PM CST reply actions
A bit off topic but...
Why does the NBA have so many bad salaries? They’re so restrictive and don’t allow for many trades. While MLB has it’s issues wih salaries teams can trade away vets for youth. I know it’s an apple and oranges thing but these max contracts are draedful for teams that don’t have the Lebron’s and Kobe’s of the league.
who gone bring the game back/
who gone spit that Ramo on the train tracks/
that gold rope, that 5 finger ring rap/
runnin with my same pack/
Jay Electronica
by EngleWood's Finest on Jan 11, 2010 4:02 PM CST reply actions
The funny thing is that all it takes is one good postseason for a player to get a huge contract.
Eddie Robinson emerged during 2001-02 postseason.
Jerome James had a good 2004-05 postseason (he looked like Shaq against Brad Miller and the Kings).
Luol Deng averaged 22 and 9 during the 2006-07 postseason.
Smart people learn from their mistakes. Smarter people learn from the mistakes of others. - Raymond Stone
by RaymondStone.com on Jan 11, 2010 7:24 PM CST up reply actions
I really don't think they will get to .500
unless they make some kind of trade like they did last year. I do think they sneak into the playoffs because the 7th and 8th seed (and possibly the 6th) in the East probably won’t need to be above .500, just close to it.
Fan of the Chicago Cash Cows formerly known as the Bulls
he Bulls and their organization sucks How many times do I have to point this out
Until Paxson is gone the bulls will always be in the same place every year at the same time duhhhhh
grammer geeks you make me sick
I predict the 5th seed in the East
It’s really not that far fetched. We are only 3 games under .500 and at full strength health wise. As long as they don’t make any bone headed trades I see us finishing 5th. Currently 5th belongs to Miami Heat and we are 2 1/2 games down at the moment.
by South Jersey Wedding Photographer on Jan 19, 2010 10:45 PM CST reply actions
NOT full-strength health-wise.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
It's odd
I took some crap here for saying that this was a 38-win team heading into 2009/2010, and the 19 – 22 start works out to 38 wins.
But for some reason I’m thinking that this team does turn it around somewhat and gets to 43 – 39. I don’t know why I think that they’re going to (God knows it’s not confidence in Vinny), or if it even counts as a “turnaround”, but I think the team will find scoring easier down the stretch and somehow get above .500.
Is Jerry Angelo fired yet?
Is Vinny Del Negro fired yet?
Hey, that's my prediction!
saying that this was a 38-win team heading into 2009/2010, and the 19 – 22 start works out to 38 wins
We miss you, Ben Gordon!
by Granny Waiters on Jan 23, 2010 10:45 AM CST up reply actions

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