What if... Bulls strike lottery gold again?
by kig on Jan 8, 2010 1:59 PM CST
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PrintI'm getting sick of re-hashing all of the 2010 scenarios in my head and coming up disappointed every time.
Will they Bulls be able to lure, and even afford, one max free agent? Will the guy even be worth the max (hello Joe Johnson)? If they strike out, what will we be left with? What possible trades this year make sense? Wil Paxdorf have the balls to pull off a trade that makes sense?
I've thought about this so much that I'm officially now at a dead end. So, I decided to come up with a new scenario to waste my time with...
What if the Bulls continue to borderline suck and finish the season akin to the '07-'08 year, which was 33 wins. And what if that qualifies us for the lottery, and we again strike improbable gold and get the #1 pick. Here's where the fun starts:
We have to take John Wall. And then we have one of the best assets in the NBA. Now, what to do? Do we pair Rose and Wall in the backcourt and find a way to get Bosh? Do we use Wall as trade bait to get back a couple of great players that make us champ contenders? Do we use Rose to get back a couple of great players to make us champ contenders? Would Paxdorf be keen enough to get the most out of this situation... that's where the fun stops. So don't think about that part.
Let's hear your creative ideas. It'll give me something fun to think about for awhile before I go out and shovel my driveway again.
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If we got Wall
I would forgive this franchise for everything they’ve ever done wrong. Of course we keep him and DR and the NBA Championship is ours for the next 4 years.
No forgiveness for this Organization!
The organization would let Rose go free after rookie contract (just like Ben Gordon) and John Wall would be on the rookie contract for an extra two years without the Bulls having to pay a max contract for D.Rose.
Cheap skates! Win again!
"I tried being reasonable, I didn't like it."
"Go ahead, make my day"
"We boil at different degrees"
"A good man always knows his limitations"
"You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?"
depending on where the timberwolves land in the lottery
Id trade the 1st pick for both of timberwolves picks this year (one would be lottery, one would be mid-late first round, as it stands right now the midlate first round would be pick 21) as well as next years draft pick, and their second round pick, and force them to take a bad contract from us….
I would grab a sg with their lottery pick (again only do this if they have a top 10 pick, if not then this is all moot, luckily by that time u know) Evan turner would be nice, xavier henry is also cool. And grab a big with the other pick, Pitmann is intriguing, Solomon Alabi is huge…plus you can shed some more contracts…yea john wall would be nice, but d-wade with derrick rose is probably better at any rate…plus you can add turner or henry as backup guards with high potential (and in the case of turner high skill, and makes hinrich even more expenddable) and adding another big man just helps in the depth department overall….maybe you can even keep tyrus that way…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
yea that could work
hmm after the trades it could look something like this?
Rose/Rubio
Wade/Xavier (worst case scenerio)
Deng/Korver
Taj/JJ/Pitman
Noah/Pitman
and we would still have a roster spot or 2 open (11 players listed up there), plus if johns salmons, hinrich, and tyrus were gone, how much cap would we have left, enough to sign bosh? if not then resign tyrus thomas i suppose, hell maybe you go ahead and take a gamble with boozer….that seems like a pretty damn good team to me…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
Last week Bulls we were in the playoffs.... Hey wha happen?
It happened for Orlando… not that it’s rigged or anything.. I would never believe such a thing.
I’d trade the pick because of course it would hurt the cap and I’d be working for Jerry Reinsdorf.
I’d package the pick along with Deng for a life time supply of Euro players just to listen to Neil Funk say their names. Ka Boom!
Whoever gets #1 has to draft Wall.
A Wall/Rose backcourt would be absolutely sensational. Wall is big and athletic enough to guard most twos, so it would work out just fine. I can’t even imagine how incredible it would be to watch Derrick and Wall constantly breaking down defenses and making plays off the dribble every time down the court. Damn that would be exciting. It would honestly transform the game as we know it, at least to some extent. No backcourt has ever had two guys that are such athletic freaks, well, at least that I can remember.
For those of you who said trade the pick
for whatever? Have you ever watched J Wall play? You dont trade J Wall.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FI5XHYtLlj8&feature=rec-LGOUT-real_rev-rn-1r-2-HM
Not happening. The Bulls are making the playoffs.
The East is bad.
"Oh, y ahora ¿quién podrá defenderme?" "¡Yo!"
Eh, the playoff picture in the East is really amorphous
Whoever is in the playoffs currently is really the team that happens to be hot at the time. I’d concur that the Bulls are probably making the playoffs, but it wouldn’t surprise me if they didn’t.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
Wall is one of those prospects you simply do not pass
Period. Everyone in the draft pales before him. As Illini15 noted above, Rose and Wall could play in the same backcourt, although I’d argue they need an actual offensive system to be effective together (in other words, not under Vinny).
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
no denying that but...
have u seen this organization, they have a tendency to kill talent, either by not developing it, by putting it in losing situations, or getting rid of it before it becomes too “expensive” (in the case of tyrus thomas, its all three)…so no matter how great john wall is, can you say if he was on this team (with this coach and this organization) he will ever become as great as dwayne wade?
How about we go after the genuine article of dwayne wade, who doesnt need to be taught, who can teach, who can do everything we hope rose and wall learn to do…RIGHT FROM THE GET GO…and its not like wade is super old either….So yea id trade the pick to grab a later lottery pick, a late draft pick from this draft (which is kinda strong really) and a future first rounder, while also getting rid of bad contracts and setting ureself up nicely for the future sans wall…
and yea maybe wall will be something great, but can anyone honestly say that Wall will be greater than Rose and wade? And especially since the timberwolves (who i presume we trade with) have no real great talent otherwise, and we would be taking a future first, well they wouldnt be able to build all that well around wall…in fact the bulls would probably be far better than the twolves for at least 5-6 years and by then you would think there would be new coaches, better players, and rose would have developed quite a bit….
thats my line of thinking at least…its a win now and win later kind of thinking, whereas getting wall doesnt set u up to win right away, it still banks of walls development in the pros by this organization…and i refuse to bank on that..
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
Yes, the Bulls' organization isn't ideal in terms of developing talent
But there are times in which the talent ceiling is so absurdly high it’s hard to go wrong with it. Wall is that case — every scout has basically said he’s going to be on the Paul/Williams tier, and seeing him play, I completely believe that. It’s like saying LeBron wasn’t going to be an overwhelming force even though Mike Brown has the coaching acumen of a teacup on the offensive end. Having the number one overall pick and skipping on Wall is roughly equivalent to Portland skipping on Jordan. You don’t miss transcendent talents, period.
And besides, Wade is one of those players that I strongly believe decline on the wrong side of 30. You can only throw your body around like that so much before the wear and tear gets to you. Does that mean Wade isn’t going to play at a near-MVP level for the next three or so years? Of course not. But after that, I’d be very skeptical if he can keep this current level of play up without massive changes to his playing style (akin to for instance, Kobe developing a post game during the summer).
And in a more realistic scenario in which Chicago have the number one pick, I’d take Wall and sign a tier two free agent with the available cap space than trade down just to clear out space for 2010, which I’m increasingly believing is going to be a complete crapshoot for most teams. In this case, taking Wall is the more sure thing.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
Good answer...
But wow is wall really destined to be that much better than rose? If so…im envious
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Jan 9, 2010 1:13 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
The long-term ceiling
Is up in the air. Rose still has a pretty bright future ahead of him (assuming Vinny is fired after this year and a competent coach is hired to steer Rose’s development). It’s just that Wall has shown every possible indication of being a superstar in the NBA, which is why you have every sportswriter in existence positively drooling over his prospects.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
so its more a concept of mentality
and wall has exhibited that superstar mentality which some doubt he has…intresting…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
well, he can play defense
And pass
Two things Rose wasn’t great at in college.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
as much as the bulls org
gets bashed for player development, certain players seem to curtail that concept of “lack of development.” Certainly anyone can cite Tyrus as the prime example of lost potential, but then theres Joakim Noah, a player consider raw when drafted who has developed quite well. I think if a player such as Wall came to the bulls, if he really was a transcendent figure he would develop just fine. But if Wall was, lets say, weak of heart, he would certainly go the route of tyrus and recieve the scorn of blogabull. But where would comparing him to tyrus really leave anyone…
don't let the bed bugs bite
by Rex Grossman on Jan 13, 2010 2:42 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah he has
from day one. He doesn’t need to be encouraged to be aggressive, he just is.
Fan of the Chicago Cash Cows formerly known as the Bulls
"skipping on Wall is roughly equivalent to Portland skipping on Jordan"
Wall is good but…um…that is not the equivalent to the blazers skipping Jordan for MJ is the best ever. And we don’t know shit about Wall yet.
The gap between Wall and the next best prospect (Favors)
Makes a Bowie-Jordan comparison pretty compelling. It’s a classic “need” pick over “best player available” pick. Have you watched Favors, Davis, or Turner this year? None have demonstrated anything close to the ceiling that Wall has. I’m not saying Wall is going to be the GOAT — he’s simply far and away better than the rest of his class.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
In my opinion.
That still a bad comparison. How about as bad as when Detroit picked Millic over everyone else?
Fair enough
Doesn’t really matter — I think my point is fairly clear.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
yer
just been looking into the next draft….not majorly strong,…but solid….wall is a freaky passer!!! they are quick and acurate…and his so strong! i can see why his projected 1#…..i still think that if bulls strike lucky and get pick 2 or 3….favours would be a good choice…his a beast !
Get a good coach, Draft Wall, Re-sign Tyrus Thomas, bring over Asik, find a sharp-shooting SG, keep Hinrich.
Rose/Hinrich
Wall/Shooter
Deng/Johnson
Thomas/Gibson
Noah/Asik
Touchdown!
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
when is
asik due to arrive.
don't let the bed bugs bite
by Rex Grossman on Jan 10, 2010 10:29 AM CST up reply actions
his contract in europe at the time was for two years. he was in the same draft as rose
I think they want to bring him over this summer. Who knows, though.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
In order to bring him over this Summer...
The Bulls will have to sign him with cap space…or keep their MLE and offer it to him…So, if they sign a max free agent outright, Asik will be staying overseas for another year…if they orchestrate a sign and trade for a FA, the Asik will probably be here with a portion of the MLE…
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
we arnt going to re-sign TT...if get wall...
Wall will be the starting PG…because of his passing ability …and Rose can move into the combo SG/PG….imagine the speed of this team?…and they get some shooters playing split minutes
You draft John Wall...
Then figure everything else out as a you go along…
Though, everyone must remember, this would eliminate any chance at a max free agent this Summer, because the cap hold for a #1 pick is nearly three times the amount for a 16th pick..
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
Just out of curiosity
How much salary would have to be dumped/renounced for enough cap space to be available for a max offer if the Bulls won the lottery?
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
The difference between the first overall pick and 16th pick in 2010
Is $2,915,700 (According to NBPA)
I don’t recall the exact cap projections for next season, but most of us have been projecting the Bulls to have the $1.3M hold for the 16th pick rather than the $4.3M hold for #1 overall…Either way, max cap space is dependent on Salmons opting out…but if he does, getting the #1 pick reduces the Bulls available cap space by nearly $3M…
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
you know, i actually had a dream where that happened
and it’s not surprising because the thought has crossed my mind a few times. i agree with everyone who says you keep john wall. it would be an undersized backcourt but one worth watching even if they never won a championship together.
Undersized SG, oversized PG.
Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!
Have you watched Favors this year?
He does have awesome physical tools, but in terms of refinement, he’s not even remotely close to Wall’s level.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
This season is almost worth tanking just for that chance at nabbing Wall...
He’s going to be an absolute beast.
Is Wall better than Rose
that is, is his ceiling higher than Rose’s? Because I don’t remember this much DRose hype.
VDNFTL nailed it
He has everything you could possibly want in a prospective superstar — he makes big plays, he plays shutdown defense when needed, he carries himself with unnatural poise for a freshman running the offense of one of the nation’s best teams, and can score and dish out assists equally well.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
I dont even wanna think this
chances are we get a great pick and turn into another wasted talent on the bench
True Story: John Salmons sucks so bad, Tiger Woods wants to meet him
You pick Wall and package him with Deng, Thomas, future pick, James expiring...
for Lebron in a sign and trade.
that takes balls
and the org doesn’t have them to pull off that kind of trade
don't let the bed bugs bite
by Rex Grossman on Jan 9, 2010 10:01 PM CST up reply actions
They would
if Lebron was leaving anyway. The fans would be crushed, but they’d still show up at least.
A backcourt of Rose and Wall.....
Good God….
"You never got me down, Ray. Ya hear me? Never got me down."
-Jake Lamotta
by The Red Menace on Jan 12, 2010 10:12 PM CST up reply actions
Derrick developed a midrange
and floater he didn’t use to have. I can certainly see him extending a few feet within the next 2 years
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